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#4600 Clear And Present Daisy - TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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#4600 Clear And Present Daisy

TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live

Tue Nov 18 2025

Summary

TBTL – Episode #4600: "Clear And Present Daisy" (November 18, 2025)

Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

Episode Overview

This episode of TBTL features Luke reporting live from Washington, D.C., musing on life in the nation's capital amidst heavy security, and riffing with Andrew about cat massage videos, anxious pets, and the struggle between corporate customer service policies and human nature. The pair also detour into current events, from Seattle’s new mayor and the White House’s security lockdown, to Target’s new forced-smiling policy, and a tequila labeling lawsuit against Costco. Listener communications about video games and the art of Thanksgiving (Joan Didion style) also make an appearance. Throughout, Luke and Andrew maintain their classic warm, rambling, and irreverent TBTL tone.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cat Massage, Pet Personalities, and Listener Nostalgia (00:06–12:16)

Opening Soundbite: A vintage instructional video from Mary Jean Ballner on "cat massage" sets a whimsical tone.
- “Cat massage is the easiest way to produce a cat’s smile and is a reliable source for cat giggles. Listen closely for cat giggles.” – Mary Jean Ballner, [00:06]
Listener Reference: Andrew credits a listener for resurrecting this deep-cut TBTL gem.
Pet Talk:
- Andrew suspects his cat, Bingo, is only affectionate for the sake of Andrew’s office chair, not Andrew himself, and shares a recurring, comically vexing scenario: Bingo sneakily tickles his exposed foot in the early morning, seemingly for Andrew’s reaction.
  - “I think he just... He's like, oh, let's push the button and watch the big guy freak out.” – Andrew, [06:39]
- Luke relates with stories about Bubbles, a neurotic, easily startled cat, who is becoming marginally more tolerant with age.
  - "It's like she's never had a relaxed moment in her life that I can. And I was like, I mean, I guess they make gummies for animals, right?" – Luke, [09:23]
- Both reflect on cat personalities and regrets over not engaging more with former pets, tying into human relationships.
  - "I don't regret broad swaths of my behavior... Although I do look back at all of the times Theo would want to sit on my lap... and now I would kill to have that cat begging for some snuggles now." – Andrew, [10:17]

2. Life in D.C.: Security Theater, Authority, and Dislocation (12:16–20:36)

Luke's D.C. Observations:
- He loves the city's vibrancy and restaurant scene, but is frustrated by what feels like an aggressive “police state”—constant security presence, roadblocks, and officials unable to explain closures.
  - “Everywhere you go, there are, like, barriers that are set up... and no one has any idea why they're doing any of it. It feels extremely... Feels really like a police state.” – Luke, [14:08]
- Andrew shares a friend's experience of random police authority in China as a parallel story, leading to ruminations on perceptions vs. lived reality abroad.
  - “I was shocked at how actually cool China looked. The worse America gets, the more I think, well, what are other options?” – Luke, [16:39]
- They lampoon politicians' ongoing authoritarian tendencies and the absurdity of diplomatic “security.”

3. National & Local Politics: Seattle’s New Mayor, Perception vs. Reality (20:36–25:08)

Andrew’s Civic Reflections:
- Talks about the ascendancy of Seattle’s new mayor, Katie Wilson, from a quiet campaign to a national target for being painted as a “communist.”
  - “We can't just run our city. And anyway, that's... I don't know if it's related to what you were just talking about, but that's where my brain went.” – Andrew, [24:50]
Media Hysteria & Family Politics:
- Both hosts lament the way national media instantly shape family members’ beliefs, especially via Fox News.

4. D.C. Anecdotes: Real Men, National Guard, and Security Choreography (25:08–32:32)

Elevator Encounter:
- Luke relays a comical encounter with an Anthony Fauci lookalike who declares, "Now you're a real man," after learning Luke is braving a morning run in freezing temperatures.
  - “He looks over and goes, are you going running? And I go, yeah. He goes, now you're a real man.” – Luke, [27:53]
- Luke is forced to defend his jogger’s minimal clothing, invokes the “dress for the second mile” rule, and later admits it was far too cold.
Security Overkill:
- More observations on how security and the presence of the National Guard dominate public spaces, leading to musings about the politics and perceptions of those serving.

5. Customer Service: Target’s "Smile More" Policy (45:08–59:52)

Corporate Mandates:
- Target and Starbucks are both seeking to juice their sales: Target by mandating employees smile at customers when within 10 feet (“10-4 Policy”), and Starbucks with exclusive drinks at in-Target locations.
  - “Of the many things that Target has been trying to do to boost business, they've apparently told their employees to smile more at the shoppers so as to create a better shopping experience.” – Luke, [50:36]
  - "The new policy requires employees who are within 10ft of customers to smile, make eye contact, wave, and use friendly, approachable and welcoming body language. Then if staff members are within 4ft of customers, they must personally greet the guests, smile, and initiate a warm, helpful interaction." – Andrew, [54:44]
Host Reactions:
- Both hosts are squicked out by the artificiality and corporate disconnect behind such policies, acknowledging that it’s technically legal, but likely demoralizing and ineffective at a large scale.
  - "If you're gonna be the place that's known for having extremely friendly, helpful employees, that's gotta be day one.” – Luke, [57:02]
  - "There are places where their whole shtick is we're really helpful... What's hard is... humongous national chain... And now all of a sudden it's like, if you're within 10ft, do this." – Luke, [57:50]
- Luke notes the misguided use of the term “Minnesota nice” in a Bloomberg article about this policy.

6. Costco’s Tequila Lawsuit: Class Actions & Truth in Labeling (60:35–65:23)

Headline: Costco faces a class-action lawsuit for allegedly mislabeling Kirkland tequila as "100% agave."
- "The suit... claims Costco violated the Federal Racketeer Influenced and Corruption Organization... and various state laws, including the Washington State Consumer Protection Act." – Luke, [61:39]
Analysis:
- Hosts speculate that this is likely lawyer-driven rather than “organic” grassroots activism, but Andrew notes there’s merit if the product doesn’t match the label.
- Hangover "proof" is discussed as humorous legal grounds.
  - "If I could bring a lawsuit based on some of the hangovers I've had in my life.... I want to sue. I want justice." – Luke, [65:04]

7. Listener Feedback: Baldur’s Gate 3 and the World of D&D Video Games (65:42–72:38)

Voicemail Highlight:
- Carolyn in Encinitas asks if Andrew is playing "Baldur’s Gate 3," effusively recommending it for being like D&D minus the tedium.
  - “Go Balderdash. Love you guys. Have a great afternoon.” – Carolyn, [65:50]
Andrew’s Gaming Adventure:
- Confirms BG3 was the game in question; details his curiosity about D&D as a kid but shyness about the roleplay element, leading him to BG3 as an adult.
  - “It was so impenetrable to me at first. ...But I had no idea what I was doing. Like, literally no idea.” – Andrew, [67:12–72:24]
- Laments complexity but credits friend Libby for coaching (“Just call Libby, everyone”), and admits he’s finally hooked after repeated attempts.
  - “You [Luke] would hate it. Every piece of this.” – Andrew, [72:24]
- Luke expresses interest to discuss video games and the film “Her” on the next episode.

8. Memorable Moments & Quotes

“Your cat doesn’t want petting anymore. Your cat wants a massage.” – Mary Jean Ballner, [00:06]
“Dirty monkey. Not ok, but dirty monkey dance.” – Luke, [01:53]
“It's a police state right now... But that’s all right, though. TBTL will be unaffected by whatever is going on outside here in DC.” – Luke, [02:53]
“Are you going running? Now you’re a real man.” – Elevator Stranger, [27:53]
“I just realized, you know what? I could just memorize the answers… That’s what studying is.” – Luke, [59:52]
“Ace is the place with the helpful hardware folks. And when you walk into an Ace, they are helpful.” – Luke, [57:18]
“If you’re within 10ft of customers, smile, make eye contact, wave... If you’re within 4ft, initiate a warm, helpful interaction.” – Andrew (about Target policy), [54:44]
“If I could bring a lawsuit based on some of the hangovers I’ve had in my life. ...I want to sue. I want justice.” – Luke, [65:04]

9. Recurring Tone & Language

True to TBTL’s style, the hosts’ tone is a blend of self-deprecating, observational, tangential, and wry, peppered with inside jokes, listener shout-outs, and earnest asides on topics serious (political repression, mental health, corporate culture) and frivolous (cat behaviors, running attire, video game confusion).

Notable Segment Timestamps

00:06: Cat massage opening clip from Mary Jean Ballner
02:01: Official show intro (“the show that just might be too beautiful to live”)
04:10: Listener Mike resurrected the cat massage tape
12:16: Luke’s D.C. impressions: lively city, “uniquely designed to make me angry”
20:36: Andrew on Seattle’s new “communist” mayor and absurd campaign narratives
27:53: “Now you’re a real man,” elevator anecdote in D.C.
50:36: Target “smile more” policy, Starbucks/Target partnership news
54:44: Andrew details the “10-4” smiling policy at Target
60:35: Costco tequila/RICO lawsuit
65:42: Listener voicemail about Baldur’s Gate 3
67:12: Andrew’s foray into BG3 and his struggle with D&D video game complexity

Conclusion

Episode #4600 of TBTL is classic in its blend of the trivial and the trenchant. Luke and Andrew move smoothly from meditations on anxious cats and the nature of smiling in retail, to sober reflections on living in a modern security-laden D.C. while never losing their signature blend of warmth, humor, and improvisational tangents. Listeners get a feeling for real life in America’s capital, the dysfunctions of corporate America, and the escapism of video games all in one delightfully sprawling conversation.

Power Out.

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Transcript

Mary Jean Ballner (0:06)

Hello and welcome to the amazing world of cat massage. My name is Mary Jean Ballner and this is my wonderful cat champion. In this videotape, you'll learn that your cat doesn't want petting anymore. Your cat wants a massage. And we'll be able to show you how based on my book, Cat massage. So continue watching and you'll learn to bring on power purring and mega meow moments. When to cat massage whenever computer keyboards on the couch. Cat massage makes TV commercials bearable. And of course, on the bed. Our best massage techniques were developed here. Cat massage is the easiest way to produce a cat's smile and is a reliable source for cat giggles. Listen closely for cat giggles. Sometimes cat will approach you for massage. You know what that's like, he's rubbing up against you. Or he'll simply give you a look that says massage time tbtm.

Andrew Walsh (1:12)

Hey, you know, if we knock down that wall, it would really open the place up. You know, clean up the blood, maybe add some French doors, maybe ping pong table right there. You know, I'm just ripping. I don't know if it's video or.

Luke Burbank (1:24)

What, but it's so unfair to after something like this to blame people in.

Andrew Walsh (1:28)

The backseat or say they deserved it.

Carolyn (1:30)

Beads, Bees, Beads.

Luke Burbank (1:34)

Beads. Mmm. Ah, gazpacho soup just burned my lips.

Andrew Walsh (1:38)

The gazpacho?

Luke Burbank (1:39)

Yeah, it's been sitting out. It warmed up.

Andrew Walsh (1:41)

It warmed up so much that it burned your lip.

Luke Burbank (1:43)

Let me explain something to you.

Andrew Walsh (1:45)

If you're expecting something ice cold and you bring it up to your lips.

Luke Burbank (1:48)

And it's room temp, it's going to feel like your mouth's on fire. It's gonna feel like your body's on fire.

Andrew Walsh (1:52)

Oh, I see.

Luke Burbank (1:53)

Dirty monkey. Not ok, but dirty monkey dance.

Andrew Walsh (1:58)

Luke Burbank (7:54)

Would not tolerate very much cat massage. Although I do think she's getting a little bit more. Like when, you know, I'm visiting Earth, when I'm getting my supervised visits with her at Becca's place, I have noticed that it used to be. So I always. I'll pick her up. I'm always very excited to see her and everything, but I'd pick her up and then I would, like, be patting her tummy or something, and I'd get about five seconds of that max before she started to squirm. And I kind of intentionally. I play into it a little bit. Like, I'd kind of throw her over my shoulder, like, all right. I kind of. I hold her in a way. Like, I know she's going to be annoyed no matter what, so I don't even try to not annoy her. It's almost like a big brother kind of razzing his little brother or something. So I pick her up. I'll kind of pat her on the tummy. She'll kind of go. Or maybe sometimes she sounds like this. And then. So that used to. I used to get about five seconds before she freaked out. Now I'm getting about 30 seconds. So she's a little bit older, and maybe. What is she, like, maybe four years old now or something? And she. So I don't know if she's just. She's certainly not mellowing out because as I commented to Becca the other day, she is a highly anxious individual. That cat. Like, it's. You know, she's lived with Becca for a long time now, and she's lived in that apartment for a long time. And you'd think she would be kind of used to the rhythms and the. Just the goings ons there. But, like, I was doing the show from there the other day because I'd been in Portland doing that little TV appearance, and I forget what happened. Some, like, not particularly loud sound happened, and that cat went sprinting across the room, like, you know, like as if, you know, it was. It's her life was flashing in front of her very eyes or something. So it's like she's never had a relaxed moment in her life that I can. And I was like, I mean, I guess they make gummies for animals, right? Isn't that a thing now?

Luke Burbank (12:16)

Hey, by the way, a couple things. One, I. I was out this morning in D.C. kind of doing a little exploring and. And going to see what it looked like over there at the White House with the. What happened with half of it torn down now. And I just had the realization. First of all, I actually really love D.C. as a city. I think it's a very interesting place. And there's this sense that, like, you know, important stuff is happening here, you know, whether it's happening the way that I want it to or not. I think it just. There's an energy here that I really like. I think also because I live in, like, the middle of nowhere now, and there are, like, zero good restaurants that I can walk to. The fact that, like, last night, I just. I didn't even know where I was going. I just walked out of the hotel to find something to eat, and it was a Monday night, and there were 30 options within a three block radius of the hotel. I just like being in an area that has stuff which would raise the question, why did you buy a house in the middle of nowhere? But. So I really like the city of D.C. but I also realized today that it is also almost like, uniquely designed to make me angry because everywhere you go, there are police, there are Secret Service, there are National Guard people. And while I was going up to Pennsylvania Avenue to see what was doing with the White House and it's just all blocked off for no reason that they can tell you about, the Secret Service person I asked, is, is this all day? She said, I don't know. I said, do you know what this is related to? No, I just got here, actually. And then it's just like a bunch of people just making. Just following rules that someone else has told them. You know, my least favorite thing, which is following rules that I don't feel like have a very legit explanation. And it's just everywhere you go, particularly in the area I'm in, because I'm right by the White House and right by the National Mall and all that, everywhere you go, there are, like, barriers that are set up. There are like multiple law enforcement vehicles. There are people with AK47s or whatever those kinds of guns are, and they're all just doing something that they were told to do by somebody who was told to do it by somebody else. By somebody else, by somebody else. And no one has any idea why they're doing any of it. It feels extremely. Feels really like a police state.

Luke Burbank (16:45)

Dude, it was crazy this morning because they do have everything closed down around the White House, I think, because. Is it. I think it's been. It's a msm, right? Or what's this? You know, the. The Saudi prince is here again. It's very. It's a very strange thing to have that happening about a half a block from where I am, from where I was trying to jog, because I finished my jog up, and then I come back to the hotel and then I stop by. They have this, like, lounge, you know, that you can scan in if you are at the whatever level of Bon voyage here. It's so great, by the way, because all I really need at a hotel, I need access to bottled water for free, a couple of Diet Pepsis, some coffee in the morning, an apple. Like, they have, like, they just have, like, a healthy amount of snacks there. It's all free. It saves you so much money. Because mostly what I am at the hotel is I'm thirsty. I want some bottled water. I want a couple cups of coffee in the morning, and maybe I'll have an apple later or something. Like, it's great. But I go into that lounge room, and they just have cnn. I enter the room to get my coffee, and I just hear someone talking. And there's a lot of, like, business people with their laptops open on zooms and stuff in this, you know, kind of lounge area. And somebody's just talking. And I'm like, that person is the most annoying. Their cadence is so annoying. I can't believe they're having this meeting and they're just blasting everyone with their annoying voice. And I realize, oh, it's cnn. It's just Trump talking. Like, the TV was on at a kind of a medium volume. I didn't realize that the volume was on the tv. So what I was hearing was the current president of the United States of America lauding this, you know, I would say extremely evil person. And so it's weird to be, like, in the hotel lounge watching on TV a thing that's happening a half a block away from me indoors that I'm not even allowed to jog near. And then when you went down on Constitution Avenue, some guy had a huge. He had, like, a box truck, but somehow the sides of it were, like, digital signage. And he just had. And this was his. What I realized was this guy was parked where he was because it was as close as he could get to the White House legally. And he just had this Digital sign said, Mr. Bonesaw is in town.

Andrew Walsh (20:36)

Yeah, I have something that I want to say, but I don't know if I can articulate it. And that's why I'm saying this to ramp up to it. I was having some thoughts yesterday about my fair city here in Seattle. And of course, Katie Wilson was elected mayor. And it was on election night. When you're first counting the first round of ballots, it didn't look like she was going to win. She was way down in the count. And Bruce Harrell, the incumbent, had just poured so much money into the campaign, it seemed a bit like a fait accompli. But with more and more ballots being counted throughout the days, including mine, by the way. I'm one of those people. People were complaining about my type of voting, like literally dropping, walking to one of the ballot boxes and dropping it in the ballot box on the day of, as opposed to mailing it weeks in advance, which I have the option of doing. But you never know. Honestly, you never know what's change in the last few Weeks of an election. I like having the extra time. But anyway, so she's elected and I'm very proud of that and I'm incredibly happy about that. And I was bummed when it looked like maybe she wasn't going to win. But she is somebody who has not held public office before. I think she's gonna do a great job and I truly believe that we don't have to get into her politics of it. But it was such a quiet race here when you had everything going on with Mamdani out in New York and the nation's attention was on that and people saying, you know him, you know, proudly saying that he's a socialist. And here Katie Wilson has been sort of painted with that brush and she didn't back away from it. But she also says, I don't go around calling myself a socialist. You can call me whatever you want. I'm, you know, I'm for the, the working class and, and all of those things. She didn't shy away from it. But she's also not a grandstander. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to say Mamadani was, but there was just no grandstanding at all. Very campaign.

Luke Burbank (45:08)

I was reading this article in CNN the other day that was sort of the headline said, Target and Starbucks are both looking for a turnaround. They're teaming up on an exclusive new drink. So I was like, I don't really know if this is. There's going to be enough here for us to talk about on the show, which, by the way, is probably quite stunning for the listeners to hear that I think there are things that there is not enough there for us to talk about on the show, considering the stuff that I'll spend 20 to 30 minutes on talking about with you. But, I mean, ostensibly the story is that Target's having trouble because there's been a lot of protest around them eliminating their DEI programs and things. And also the fact that a lot of the stuff that's for sale at Target is. Is kind of, you know, it's. What do you call it, elective purchasing. It's that cute soap dish that would be nice to have in your bathroom, but also you have a soap dish in your bathroom. And when people are feeling more financially strapped, those are the things they stop buying. That's the theory behind what's going wrong at Target for them financially. And then Starbucks is just, I guess, I don't know. Well, they're having, you know, they're just. I guess they're having trouble with some strikes and things that are happening there. As far as their labor force looking to unionize, by the way, I'm not saying that the unionizers are wrong there. I'm just saying that's seen as a financial challenge for Starbucks right now. But they have, like, every Target pretty much has a Starbucks in it, which I didn't even. I just thought it was all the targets I've been to. It didn't occur to me that, like, oh, of course, this is a. This is a nationwide thing. This is something that they've got. So. And they found that when Starbucks launches, like, an exclusive drink, people go crazy for it, which I want to be careful because we recently got. We had a list. Didn't somebody leave us a list of, like, worst Starbucks things or something?

Andrew Walsh (52:48)

Right now I'm just trying to steal Barry's. All of Barry's entrepreneurial spirit. But for real, let's just say it's like a coffee shop or something like that. And I have maybe two or three baristas who work. And if one of my employees was outwardly what I considered rude in some way, even if it was standoffish or just like barely looking up from their phone, you know, provided a coffee, the very bare minimum of what the job requires. Yes. Makes a coffee. Yes. Sets it down in front of the customer, but is essentially like, rude. I would definitely have some policies in place, and I don't know if there are legal barriers to what you can and cannot sort of say or put into place. I would definitely, though, try to put into place some sort of policy. And I would certainly talk to that employee and just say, hey, what we're doing here, it's kind of. It's not just about coffee, you know, it is about the customer experience. And we need to make sure that the customer experience is good in here. And so please, you know, and then. And if people are good at that, then they're going to go further in the company. You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do think that the corporateness of this is what's so gross. And yeah, while this was just a quick throwaway line in the article that you read, I noticed it linked to other articles which I couldn't get to because they were behind paywalls. But I did a little, I just did a very simple. Is that what it was? I guess Bloomberg's behind a paywall. I didn't realize that. I thought it was Wall Street Journal or something. But anyway. But there are articles written just about this policy as a headline in and of itself. In fact, that's what got me on that Fox News video yesterday where he turned to his panel of experts, which was four baseball hat bros and one guy wearing sunglasses inside to talk about their opinions about this. But anyway, it turns out the policy is something called the 104 policy that target is, you know, rolling out. And it's just some, there's something so.

Andrew Walsh (67:12)

It is. And I was surprised how many emails I got about this. I wouldn't usually just play a voicemail at the end of the show that is about a video game that I'm playing. But, you know, I'm almost wondering, maybe we can talk about this more on tomorrow's show because we're kind of getting near the end of the show. But, yeah, I did download this game. I just had always been curious, like, literally my whole life I've been curious about Dungeons and Dragons. I never Played it before. I realized as an adult, the actual playing of Dungeons and Dragons does not appeal to me because it's so performative in a certain way. Like, I'd have to sit around with a group of friends, we would make up stories and your care. You know, there's like kind of just this performative aspect of it that seems really cool to me for people who are into that, but that I would be very shy to do. And so I realized, oh, that's not for me, but I'm like. But I always wanted just to know what it's like. So isn't there a video game? And I was picturing, like, a very simple video game. Like, that would almost be like, literally you would have virtual dice that you would roll, you know, and that. That maybe you would even type in, like, maybe you'd create your own stories or something. But I was picturing something very like 1990s ish. And several times I've had this thought and I would Google it and then give up. And then I was googling it again the other day. I don't know what prompted it, maybe about a month ago. And I was like, is there a D and D video game that follows the rules of D and D? And that could kind of teach me about that world a little bit? And I kept seeing this game, Baldur's Gate 3, pop up. And the thing is, my friend Libby has been trying to get me to play Baldur's Gate 3 for a long time now. She is obsessed with it. And this is, you know, Libby, a mutual friend of ours. And Libby is an incredibly smart person, but she's also somebody who is way into gaming. Her whole life, she's been a big gamer and is into, like, kind of fantasy, I think, stories and stuff, as well as other things. And so Baldur's Gate three is her jam. But I always just dismissed it as like, no, no, no, Libby, I'm not your level of. Of gamer and nerdery and all that stuff. Like, it's not. I'm not this big fantasy guy, generally speaking. And I just. It felt like everything she said about that game, I'm like, that sounds like a game that is way over my head. And. But then the Internet. The Internet's telling me to download it. Libby's telling me to download it. So I text her. I'm like, this is the game you've been talking about, right? Like, is it actually D and D? She's like, yes, this is. This is dnd. It's complicated. But, like, you should download it. I'm like, all right. So I downloaded onto my computer. I'm like, this seems like a. More of a computer game to me because it's going to be more strategy based as opposed to, like sitting down behind my Xbox and like, playing a football game or something. So anyway, I downloaded. I'm like, okay, this thing will download in about, you know, 10 minutes or whatever, and then I'll. I'll be playing my game. I think it was a Friday night. It took over an hour for the game to just download onto my computer. And I have fiber optic Internet that's super fast. Like, I was like a half hour, and I'm like, what am I downloading? She's like, buckle up. And so it's this incredibly immersive, incredibly high graphic game that does come down to the rolls of dice, basically, or a die that maybe I can tell you about more. But like, I. Yeah, it was so. It was so impenetrable to me at first. And I played it a couple of times. Couldn't figure it out. I'm too impatient. Like, I don't want to read about it or watch videos. I just want to play. It took me an hour to download this thing. I just want to play it. But I had no idea what I was doing. Like, literally no idea. And then I put it down for my trip to Ohio. And then I realized I'm never going to pick that up again unless I, like, make a point of it. So on Sunday night, I called Libby. I didn't even, like, text her first. I just called her. And in this day and age, when you call somebody, you don't text first. You have to say by. You have to start by saying, nothing's wrong. This isn't an emergency. I'm not in jail.