#4611 Company Men

Summary

TBTL: Too Beautiful To Live

Episode #4611 – “Company Men”
Hosted by: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh
Date: December 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This Wednesday on TBTL, Luke and Andrew dive deep into tales from Luke’s work trip to Miami, including an underwater art shoot gone chaotically awry, and the existential embarrassment of being the only shirtless person on a boat. The duo also gets in the weeds on microphone experimentation, share radio nostalgia, and rhapsodize over the HBO surreal mystery “The Chair Company”—with an especially unhinged finale fresh on their minds. As always, they pepper in tangents on everything from Delilah dedications to the surprise privatization of the University of Miami.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Microphone Mayhem and Show Start (03:54–08:23)

• Microphone Switches: Andrew impulsively tests a long-abandoned microphone on-air. Luke and Andrew banter about audio quality, with Andrew tweaking settings live and both riffing about former radio jobs.
  • Quote:
    “Literally 45 seconds before you introduce me, I’m like, what if I just swap out the microphone that I use every single day for this show? …Is it cleaning up a little bit as I’m turning this knob?”
    — Andrew Walsh (04:45)
• Luke is also using a different mic in his Miami hotel, leading to a bit about their simultaneous equipment experimentation and reclining podcast poses.

Miami Tales: Underwater Art, Shirtless on TV, and Seasickness (10:27–30:34)

• Meeting New Listeners: Luke’s been meeting fans and friends in Miami, some from a dive shoot for television.
• Filming the Reefline Art Installation:
  • Luke recounts snorkeling (shirtless) for a TV segment above a coral-growing art installation made of concrete “traffic jam” cars.
  • “This whole shirtless debacle for me could have been avoided if I would have just gone to one of the local stores here and… bought like a black t-shirt that’s made out of a material you swim in.” (13:12)
  • The ride out is so rough that many people—including the sound guy—are vomiting, and the artist himself ends up seasick after scuba diving down to see his own work.
• Ocean Phobias: Luke discusses his longtime fear of sharks, even in swimming pools as a kid:
  • “I know there’s not a shark in here, but if there was, could you imagine?” (16:41)
  • He laughs about keeping himself in shallow water while letting his daughter enjoy the ocean in his Florida days (“Eat More Addie!”).
• Snorkel Struggles: Not being a regular snorkeler, Luke describes the panic of running out of breath 25 feet underwater while TV cameras roll.
  • “I look up and…the surface of the water is so far away. …I didn’t think about the return trip.” (27:31)
• Surreal Boat Moments: The juxtaposition of people tossing up their lunch with the beauty of the Miami project, plus well-timed comic asides about sharks, wetsuits, and local culture.

Listener Support & Ocean Billboards (31:15–34:28)

• Thanking Donors: A segment highlighting listener donations from across the U.S. and Canada.
• Bizarre Miami Billboards: Luke describes floating digital ad-barges visible from his hotel.
  • “I’d never seen anything like that.” (32:11)
• Andrew imagines underwater billboards directed at scuba divers, which devolves into musing about metal detecting and hard-core detectorist culture.

On Radio: Riding with Delilah (36:02–40:49)

• Lift Rides and Delilah:
  • Luke discovers his Lyft driver is a dedicated fan of Delilah, the iconic late-night radio show.
  • The driver asks if the callers are real—Luke reassures him they are, drawing a distinction between genuine radio dedications and “phony” morning radio call-in segments.
    • “The calls to Delilah are very real… but the morning shows are all actors. I’m sorry if you love these things.” (38:16)
  • Nostalgia for Delilah’s format, and why it feels comforting even though the music is schmaltzy.

Soft Rock Nostalgia: Unironic Love (41:07–45:38)

• Andrew and Luke spiral into a loving riff on soft rock, sharing playlists built around tracks like “Didn’t We Almost Have It All” (Whitney Houston), “The Rose” (Bette Midler), and “Time After Time” (Cyndi Lauper).
  • “I have openly wept to ‘True Colors.’” — Luke (44:10)
  • Notable digression on Andrew misnaming “The Rose” as “The Reed,” which becomes an in-joke.

Deep Dive: HBO’s “The Chair Company”—Spoilers and Surrealism (46:26–73:05)

Episode Finale Dissection (46:26–55:56)

• Spoiler Warning: The hosts unpack the head-spinning, open-ended final episode of Season 1.
• The episode answers none of the show’s central mysteries, instead introducing wild new plotlines and characters, notably including a masked figure and several “unanswered” mysteries.
• “Are you legally allowed to end a series the way they did?” — Luke (51:04)
• Comparison to David Lynch’s “Twin Peaks,” both hosts reflect on how the show toys with the audience’s need for closure and logical sense-making.

Themes, Humor, and “Weird-for-Weird’s-Sake” (55:10–72:58)

• Absurdity as Feature: Andrew wrestles with whether he enjoyed episode 8, eventually admitting the sheer novelty kept him entertained but worried it may fuel unfair critiques of “weird” shows.
  • “I was a little disappointed. I feel like episode eight gives people an excuse to say: ‘Ah, that shit’s just weird.’” — Andrew (66:42)
• Masculinity, Power, and Relatable Moments: The hosts praise the show’s subtle commentary on masculinity and awkwardness in the modern office.
  • “It’s subtly skewering and highlighting…ineffable feelings and moments of ennui, frustration, like joy—all of these little moments of life.” — Luke (71:59)
• Connection to David Lynch: Despite avoiding the cliché, both agree “Chair Company” channels Twin Peaks–style surreality, especially in introducing “otherworldly” elements out of nowhere.
• Both express anticipation for Season 2, appreciating how their ability to enjoy non-linear, confusing media has grown thanks to this show.

Literary Tangent: Inherent Vice and Reading Habits (73:05–77:42)

• Andrew begins reading Thomas Pynchon’s “Inherent Vice” and is loving its parodic take on noir, reflecting back to movie and narration choices.
• Jokes about how both hosts have read the first ten pages of all the greatest American novels but rarely finish them.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being the only shirtless person on the boat:
  “I was the only shirtless person on the boat. And it exactly looked like I was allergic to shirts because I thought my physique was so good.”
  — Luke (13:45)
• On Delilah’s callers:
  “I am here to tell you, my friend, the calls to Delilah are very real.”
  — Luke (38:16)
• On running out of breath snorkeling:
  “I look up and…the surface of the water is so far away. I also have fins on. …I didn’t think about the return trip.”
  — Luke (27:31)
• On the “Chair Company” finale:
  “Are you legally allowed to end a series the way that they did? …Can you take a noir show that is going in one direction…and then just open 20 new weird mysteries in the final episode with no intention of ever solving them?”
  — Luke (51:04)
• On weirdness in TV:
  “This is the show I’ve been the most confused by but have enjoyed the most. I feel like this is what it must be like to watch Twin Peaks.”
  — Luke (64:46)
• Echoing soft rock vulnerability:
  “I have openly wept to ‘True Colors’.”
  — Luke (44:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Microphone experimentation & show open | 03:54–08:23 | | Miami/TV shoot mishaps & seasick art | 10:27–30:34 | | Listener/donor appreciation & billboards | 31:15–34:28 | | Lyft ride, Delilah, and the reality of radio | 36:02–40:49 | | Soft rock nostalgia and catharsis | 41:07–45:38 | | “Chair Company” HBO finale dissection (spoilers)| 46:26–72:58 | | Literary tangent: On not finishing books | 73:05–77:42 |

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Tone & Style

Warm, freewheeling, and self-deprecating with ample pop culture riffs. The episode is classic TBTL—affectionately meandering, with personal storytelling, goofy self-analysis, and a shared delight in both the mundane and the absurd.

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Takeaways

• The perils of field reporting can be as much emotional (being shirtless) as physical (seasick boats, shark fears).
• Genuine affection for listener-supported media and nostalgia for authentic radio.
• Even tightly structured genre television can delight by blowing up its conventions—much to viewers’ confusion or delight.
• Comfort and meaning can spring from unexpected places: soft rock ballads, late-night radio, or a surrealist HBO series.
• For all their goofing, Luke and Andrew’s musings touch on vulnerability, masculinity, and the search for meaning in life’s chaos.

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Power Out

“The job was always too much for him. He was floundering from day one, and frankly, it was scary to watch. I don't think he should be fired. Just moved down three or four rungs. Or five. …Power out.”
— Luke (79:24–79:53, quoting "Chair Company" for the episode sign-off)

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Oh. Oh, Seth.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Luke Burbank]

Seth. Seth, why are you. Seth, come here, come here, come here. Come on, buddy. What's going on, bud? Just talk to me.

[Andrew Walsh]

About anything.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't wanna play basketball anymore.

I love that you play basketball, but if you don't wanna play basketball, you don't gotta. Really? No.

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

It's just my heart hasn't been in.

[Andrew Walsh]

It for, like, the last year. And I found something I love so much more.

[Luke Burbank]

You're happy you found something you love. That's all I need to hear. I'm over the moon.

What is it?

Stop motion animation?

Like Rudolph?

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, it's not all Christmas.

[Luke Burbank]

I know. I just seen the Christmas ones, and they're always just like, santa can't do it.

[Andrew Walsh]

Tbtl.

[Luke Burbank]

You're talking about socialism. No, I'm not. I'm talking about not covering every square inch of populated America with houses and strip malls until you can't even remember what happens when you stand in a meadow at dusk. What happens in the meadow?

[Andrew Walsh]

It does everything. Everything.

[Luke Burbank]

Everything. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Doggy butt, doggy butt. Doggy, doggy, doggy butt, doggy butt, doggy butt, Doggy, doggy, doggy butt. Or noor.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, that naughty old elf must be.

[Luke Burbank]

One mean bastard to give us this so early. Flashes of Quincy.

Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Wednesday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to.

And hot water.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm hooked.

[Luke Burbank]

My name is Luke Burbank. I'm your host, Carol.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hold my calls.

[Luke Burbank]

Coming to you once again from Miami Beach. Oh, Ma.

[Andrew Walsh]

Pa.

[Luke Burbank]

It's just beautiful. It sure is, my friends. It sure is. I was talking to the Lyft driver the other day who was from Argentina, and he was talking about how he was gonna be going home to Argentina in a couple of weeks and staying down there. Because he said, well, it's summer in Argentina, so the weather is just perfect. And I thought, my friend, have you looked outside? It's 80 degrees and blue skies here in Miami. And it seems. Seems pretty nice. Seems like a nice day to bring you episode 4611 in a collector's series, Let the Fun Begin. I was also out on a dive boat yesterday. I like turtles. Doing some snorkeling and filming it for television. That's a tuna, bro. And we were very close to the shore. I mean, we were, I don't know, maybe a few hundred yards offshore. And it didn't seem like we were in the wilds of the ocean. And yet it was a rollicking ride that had a lot of people vomiting off of the side of the boat. Tell you how my last. And I was shirtless. Also not. I don't think that's why people were vomiting. I would say if. If that was part of it, it was a small part of it. It was mostly because the boat was rocking back and forth. Oh, hey, speaking of Lyft drivers, I was in yet another lift last night and I had a conversation with the driver and he asked me a question that was. It was actually quite charming. And I was happy I was able to give him what I think is the answer he was looking for. Can you. Can you verify. Can you give me some. 4, 1, 1. So we will get into all of that and so much more with the help of this handsome young stranger, the longest running cobra of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ships. He is Andrew Galapano Walsh, and he's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good morning, Luke. Can you hear me okay? Can you hear me at all?

[Luke Burbank]

I can. You sound a little bit like you're.

[Andrew Walsh]

In a weird tunnel. Sound weird. I do I sound weird? I wanted to try something. This is very unlike me. Hold on a second.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I like. This is kind of edgy. This is experimental.

[Andrew Walsh]

Very unlike me to try this at the last minute, literally. Luke, I was listening to your introduction. Nice introduction, by the way. I enjoyed it as along for the ride. And my eyes just wandered across my studio about 45 seconds ago and I saw this microphone that I'd given up on a long, long time ago. It's like a professional, nice microphone, but I never thought it worked well with my. The boards, the audio equipment that I have in my thing.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, it does.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Even now. Does it not sound good to you?

[Luke Burbank]

It sounds terrible.

[Andrew Walsh]

Does it really?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, it sounds like mud.

[Andrew Walsh]

It sounds really muddy.

[Luke Burbank]

Figuratively. It's like your voice sounds muddier than normal.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, I noticed that. Also the. Here, let's just do this. So literally 45 seconds before you introduce me, I'm like, what if I just swap out the microphone that I use every single day for this show? Is it cleaning up a little bit as I'm turning this knob?

[Luke Burbank]

It's sounding better. It's sounding a little better.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I was like, why don't I use this microphone? Is it truly a bad microphone? I thought the perfect, perfect time to test this would be as you introduce me at the very, very top of the show. Without any backup plan.

[Luke Burbank]

The backup plan right now, you got.

[Andrew Walsh]

To eat that microphone is for me to unplug this again and plug in my other one, which is actually more comfortable. But does it sound workable? Can we use this mic, or do I have to throw it back in the river now?

[Luke Burbank]

It's better than when you started. I don't know what you tweaked and what you. I mean, speaking of microphones.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm. You know, I'm doing something. I don't know if any of the listeners picked up on this, but I'm doing something a little different this week. I'm using a different microphone here in my hotel room in Miami for a couple of reasons. One is that it's just easier to hold. I'm using a microphone that is just. The shape of it is. Is more conducive to handheld. It also has a longer cable, so I can kind of actually recline on this bed. Hope everyone's picturing that. Me, mostly clothed, reclining on this bed, But I can sit in a slightly more comfortable way while holding this particular microphone. But it is not the one I usually use. And I don't think it sounds worse than the other one, but it sounds slightly different. I don't know if this show can handle both of us doing microphone experimentation at the same time. Andrew, you gotta eat that microphone.

[Andrew Walsh]

I gotta admit, I totally forgot that when we did the show, I think on Monday, you said you were using a different microphone. I didn't think. Think that my microphone experimentation over here was related to your microphone experimentation.

[Luke Burbank]

Maybe you got jealous.

[Andrew Walsh]

Maybe somewhere in the back of my head, you planted a seed. Maybe I got jealous. Maybe I'm like, look at that. Look at me. Louie over there with his casual microphone. I'm gonna go. You know what the kind of microphone I'm using right now is, Luke? It's the kind that we used to use it like.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, let's go.

[Andrew Walsh]

Cameras on Cairo radio. Oh, you're gonna see the back end of this thing. This thing is. You're not gonna be. This is gonna be like the. I'm gonna show you a picture of my camera.

[Luke Burbank]

See the one that I'm using? I've got this stylish green foam pea popper.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that looks good. That's the thing that you took to Australia with us. I remember you doing some field interviews with us.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, you were mostly interviewing a Sennheiser, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Now, this is one of those re. Let's see here.

[Luke Burbank]

But it's not made by Sennheiser. Huh?

[Andrew Walsh]

No, it's.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I always associated that with them.

[Andrew Walsh]

Electro voice. Ev. Electro voice. These are the ones that are, like, kind of typical.

[Luke Burbank]

They're big in the public radio world. Like, you're in a nice, newer public radio station studio. There'll be a lot of those microphones, don't you think?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. Well, this is like classically. And this is what I like to think of first. This was.

The microphone. Who had the gold version of this? The Rush Limbaugh. This is the Rush Limbaugh microphone. Only his was gold. So this is like a classic, classic.

[Luke Burbank]

Studio radio microphone from EIB Studios. Excellence in broadcasting talent on loan from God. Can you tell? Somebody used to work at a conservative talk radio station.

[Andrew Walsh]

I love that. So anyway, this is. I don't know why I'm doing this right now. I guess it does seem to get the job done, though. Like, if we needed to use this microphone.

[Luke Burbank]

Absolutely. Well, whatever you did improved it greatly over, like, the first 10 words out of your mouth, which it sounded a little distorted, a little bit less than super clear. This is a. I don't want to say it's a bummer.

[Andrew Walsh]

I think it smells a little bit. Was Graz using this thing?

[Luke Burbank]

Why does this Graz with gas?

[Andrew Walsh]

Sorry, go ahead. I remember there were. Graz is a radio host around these parts. Long, long, long time. Dave Grosby, sports radio host. I only kind of knew him near the end of his career before he retired, but there were rumors that you did not want to use a microphone after him because he apparently would. He would eat a big hoagie or whatever, and then just like, just talk. Just like you say the mic, talk right into it. And then I heard rumors that you do not want to go near those microphones for a while after he's done with it or wipe them down first.

[Luke Burbank]

I loved when. When Grosby was over there on KJR am and they also had Mike Gastono, the gas man. And they figured out that these two guys had an energy, they had a dynamism that couldn't be denied. And so they each had their own shows. But then there was one hour that was an overlap, I believe that was called Gras with Gas.

[Andrew Walsh]

Ooh, I like that a lot, actually. I like that formatting, too.

[Luke Burbank]

No, it was great. It really was. And. And I. And it was. Gastono would do, like, this kind of list thing at the end of the show. He would kind of do this, like, almost like what the. What Stugats does over on Lebatard or used to do or whatever, which is like the weekend thoughts or whatever that segment's called.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, yeah, Weekend observations. God, I missed those. Geez.

[Luke Burbank]

It would just be this thing that Crosby, or sorry, Gasner would do, would be this kind of like maybe four minute long, like, roundup of both sports and pop culture. He was just kind of like. I mean, it was scripted, but it was kind of also riffing. And he would. I feel like he would play little drops. Anyway, I forget somebody out there might know what I'm talking about. It was really good radio. Really, really good radio. Unlike what we're doing right now, Andrew, which is a little bit of a bummer, because I feel like we may have gained some new listeners.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no. And I started with a janky mic and mic talk.

[Luke Burbank]

So I just want to say to any of my new friends I've made here in Miami who might be tuning in today, I'd like to tell you it's usually things are a little bit crisper, a little more focused than this, but they're not.

[Andrew Walsh]

Damn. You should have told me before we do that we had guests. If I knew we had guests, I wouldn't have started this way.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, what happened was. Or what has been happening throughout the course of the week is I've been meeting lots of nice people, many of them related to the story that we're filming other people. I was just sitting by at dinner the other night, and we started chatting. A lovely couple. And then the. And then I got an email from the husband who had, you know, sort of Googled me, I guess, and figured out, like, oh, my TBTL email address. And he said, oh, we're gonna check out the podcast. So, you know, that's living large in my mind. I met a bunch of really cool people yesterday. We went out on this dive boat to film this underwater art installation, which also serves as a surf break and also as a coral reclamation project. And I was talking about the podcast with some of the folks there, so some of them might be tuning into this. I'm not exactly sure how many new sets of ears we have going on here, but. But yeah, this is the show, everyone. This is. This is what it sounds like now.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now you're doing this with your shirt on, we should point out, which is not how a lot of these folks know you.

[Luke Burbank]

This is. Yeah, it's for the people that I met on the boat yesterday. Like, imagine a less upsetting version of you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, okay, that's.

[Luke Burbank]

So that was a plot line going in to this. This shoot that we were doing out on this dive boat, which was somehow, once again, I was going to be shirtless on national television. This has happened one other time. I would say, as a nation, we're still recovering from the first incident. That was when I did a cold water swim in San Francisco. This was a warm water swim in Florida. And Andrew, when I tell you I got on the boat and I looked around and everybody else had wetsuits, which would have solved the problem right away. In fact, a wetsuit, it's not only are you not shirtless, you have essentially more clothing on.

[Andrew Walsh]

You're like normal. You're like Batman. You could put fake abs in there like you were talking about.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, golly, yeah, I wish I would have thought of that. And then there was one guy who didn't do the wetsuit thing and he just had on a swim shirt and it looked great on him. In fact, there were two. There was two people. One guy that worked for the boat, another guy that had these like stand up paddle boards that were electric. So they were powered stand up paddle boards so you could just get on them and ride around. They were very cool. But two of the guys on the boat that weren't in wetsuits, they just had a swim shirt on. I thought, why in the world did I not just get a shirt that is designed for swimming, Not a T shirt that I'm wearing in the pool, but a shirt that's. It's because that's what everybody here does. Because it's so sunny here so much of the time. No one's trying to catch rays. Like, it's not like Seattle where. Or Portland where it's like when the five days that it gets nice, everyone just like just strips down to nothing and then just walks outside into the sun, into the vitamin D. That's not the move here because it's constantly sunny. So you're actually wearing like a swim shirt and a hat and doing things to actually try to mitigate how much sun there is. And so it wasn't until I was sitting on the boat that I thought this whole shirtless debacle for me could have been avoided if I would have just gone to one of the local stores here and there are many, and just bought like a black T shirt that's meant it's made out of a material that you swim in.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. The irony is that you were talking about being shy doing this, but you're like, well, it is what it is. You instead look like a guy who really wanted to pop your tee off.

[Luke Burbank]

I was the only Shirtless person on the boat. And it exactly looked like I was allergic to shirts because I thought I was. My physique was so good.

[Andrew Walsh]

You brought your bongos with you, I believe.

[Luke Burbank]

I sure did. Time is a flat circle.

So that was a little embarrassing that I didn't think about that. I did end up having to just kind of go. Go shirtless. But luckily mostly I was just swimming around. And then that was its whole own thing because everybody else on the boat was like scuba certified. So a lot of people had on, you know, they had like scuba tanks with oxygen in them. And they had on like the whole get up and the. So they were going down, you know. This was about 25ft deep in the ocean is where this installation. It was basically like a bunch of cars, like in a traffic jam, except they're made out of marine concrete and they're meant to grow. Like there's coral that gets locked onto them and it grows more coral and all this stuff. So the people with the scuba gear, they could swim all the way down and just hang out down there and they could actually put. Attach coral to it and they could just kind of like engage with the thing. I was holding my breath, so I was just trying to like get enough breath at the surface. And by the way, the. The ocean is rollicking. Like it. I'm looking at the ocean right now from my hotel room and it looks very placid and very flat. And yet somehow when we were out there, it was not. This boat was just going to back and forth. And again, many people, including our sound guy for the shoot. God love you, Steve. Steve was trying to record the audio for this while also throwing up off the side of the boat. There was many people vomiting.

[Andrew Walsh]

Are people vomiting into the water that other people are swimming in?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, it is all the same ocean.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, I know that a lot about swap out oceans, but I mean, in the same. Were these events happening at around the same time in the same area or was it like, oh, there was a place where everybody got sick and then you guys went somewhere else and you were swimming?

[Luke Burbank]

No, we weren't moving the boat based on people losing their lunch, but it was pretty discreet.

[Andrew Walsh]

Like it was.

[Luke Burbank]

They were going off the side of the boat. There was literally these two areas that the captain, when he gave us the kind of spiel before we left the marina, he said, like, if you do feel like you have to throw up, we have these VIP sections and it was like vomit in place or something. You know, he had some Kind of like joke about. So the people that were, that were having seasickness, they were, that was kind of far away from the back of the boat. It's a really big boat. So it didn't seem like these were commingling. What I didn't think about a lot until today when I was talking to somebody else for a different interview for the story where she said, I wouldn't have gone in there because of the sharks.

And I was like, I am glad I did not. Because, you know, I mean, I used to be very phobic.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that's right. I was just thinking as a human being, you don't want to be around sharks. But no, that's a, that's a real fear of yours. You were saying that even at an age that you're a little bit embarrassed about, you avoided swimming pools because of.

[Luke Burbank]

Your, with my own daughter. Well, I, I, I would get out of the swimming pool at my grandma's condo in Bellevue because I would say, I know there's not a shark in here, but if there was, could you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Imagine like me and heights? Like you're in the water, you're fine, you're fine. And then suddenly the, all the thoughts just pile up on top of you. That's what happened on your roof when we were watching the Blue Angels.

[Luke Burbank]

And then more embarrassingly and definitely not winning me any father of the year mugs. When I lived down here in Florida for about a year and Addie was visiting, we would be in the ocean and she would be in the ocean because she loves the ocean. And I would be standing about shin deep in the water and my whole move was I want to be close enough that if she starts to drown, I could get her. But I don't want to be so far in the water that the sharks can get me. Apparently I was okay with the sharks getting my daughter.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I mean that's kind of, that's kind of a type of self defense really. Like they'll get her first, which will buy you some time.

[Luke Burbank]

Her meat is younger, it's tastier.

[Andrew Walsh]

You got a sign like those cows that say eat more chicken.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. Eat more Addie. And it's like you guys don't even want any part of this grizzled old 24 year old, 25 year old Luke. But I'm really glad that I didn't even think about that. I was dealing with too many other things. One, being shirtless. Two, the water was very, very choppy. And you know, I've been scuba diving or I should say snorkeling, like two times in my life. And it was just in Hawaii in one of those little. I don't know if you and Veeves did that or have done that when you've gone. But, you know, there's those really nice, very calm little protected areas where you put on a mask and a snorkel, you know, and you just. You swim. There's turtles in there and stuff. And it's like, it is extremely, like, low, low stress, low danger. That's the only kind of snorkeling I've ever done. I'm not like, this is not a regular thing for me, and I haven't done that in years. And now here we are on this rollicking boat, and this is. There's. There's like 40 people on the boat that are there for various reasons for this. This organization called Reefline. That's really cool. People that are supporters of it. There were scientists from the University of Miami. Did you know the University of Miami is private?

[Andrew Walsh]

No.

[Luke Burbank]

Didn't you just assume that it was like a state school in Florida that happened to be in Miami?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. I'm trying to sort things out in my head right now.

[Luke Burbank]

Hurricanes.

[Andrew Walsh]

Because I listen to so much Lebatar and they talk about the U so much. It's huge private university. And I am trying to wrap my. I am now trying to recontextualize every conversation I ever heard about the U on the Dan LeBatard Show. I'm going to need about 55 days to sort this all out. That is.

[Luke Burbank]

I have.

[Andrew Walsh]

Shocking.

[Luke Burbank]

Isn't that kind of mind blowing? I have always assumed, until last night I learned that the University of Miami is a private institution. And because, you know, they were the co national champions with my beloved Washington Huskies in 1991. Because that was back in the days when not like, there was no playoff. So the Huskies never played Miami and they were both undefeated. And so the decision was just to cut the baby in half and make us co national champions. So Miami has always been very much on my radar. The Miami Hurricanes. It never occurred to me it was a private university, which it is. I just learned.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I'm now also trying to figure out, like, oh, is this one of those things where there's a University of Miami and a Miami University that I've been confused.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, there is. Of Ohio.

[Andrew Walsh]

There is. Of Miami. Of Ohio, of course, which is Miami University of Ohio in Ohio. But yeah, I'm just making sure that this is the logo and the mascot and everything that I'M thinking of when I think about the University of Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I had no idea it was a private university. But anyway, there was name or something.

[Andrew Walsh]

Different, don't you think? I think that they're cosplaying, they're trying to get away with something here.

[Luke Burbank]

And I don't know, because most private universities have a name that. There's something about how most private universities are named that just kind of tells you, you know, Rutgers. Yeah, you don't get confused about Rutgers, you know, that it is a private university or, you know, like, there's lots of examples. You don't usually name a private university just for the city it's in. Yeah, in my experience.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Although I guess the University of Cincinnati, the Bearcats, I guess that's probably private, too. I don't mean the scales have fallen.

[Andrew Walsh]

Why do you. Why do you think that's private? What now?

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know. Because it's not. Because probably if it's a state school, it would be like, you know, you know. Well, Ohio State University. It doesn't have the name Ohio in it. Just like usually when it's a state school. Are we getting eyes on the University of Cincinnati?

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm looking at University of Cincinnati. Founded in 1819, the University of Cincinnati thrives on academic excellence. That's not what we're asking, though. I'm trying to figure it out because University of Miami. Right away it says the University of Miami is a private research university. Cincy. I'm not getting a specific answer on that question yet.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, we had researchers on the boat from the University of Miami, and there was just a whole bunch of people on this boat for a whole bunch of different reasons. And they're all fairly aware of the fact that there's also this TV shoot that's happening. So there's kind of a bit of an audience now for what I'm doing and we're doing. And I'm like. I'm sitting there about to jump in the water and I'm thinking again, a. I don't like being shirtless. Be. I haven't done anything like this in a long time. Also, this is unlike the thing that I've done before because we're in the. The rollicking seas of the Atlantic Ocean and I don't even know if I'm going to be, like, up to the task. Like, I don't know if I remember how this all works. And I'm supposed to, like, snorkel around and they're going to film it. They've got two different camera people underwater filming us. And also I'm. And I'm. I'm with the founder of the entire thing. And she's like, she's a certified scuba diver. She's very comfortable in the water. She does this all the time. And she's like, okay, great. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go out, and then we're going to, like. I'm going to count to three, we're going to hold our breath, and we're going to swim down to the cars. And I'm like, okay. Like, I don't even know how long I can hold my breath for.

[Andrew Walsh]

This is like. I'm blanking on his name. What is the name of the guy in Mission Impossible? Is it Ethan?

[Luke Burbank]

Tom Hanks? Is it Tom Cruise?

[Andrew Walsh]

It's Tom Cruise, and he plays a guy named Ethan. Right. Have you seen any of those movies? He has to hold his breath for, like, forever. He has to do something underwater in a big water wheel thing. I don't know if there's any of this sound. I don't know if what I'm talking about is iconic or it just happens to be the movie that Genevieve dragged me to, and that happens to be the thing I remember. But he has to hold his breath underwater for, I think, several hours. And I'm pretty sure he does all of his own stunts. So I feel like you have.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm just thinking about what a different franchise it would be if Tom Hanks was the star of Mission Impossible.

[Andrew Walsh]

It would be a different feel. Oh, by the way, I did check it before, and it is a public university. Cincinnati public research university. Private. So I don't know what the confusing. Well, that's Miami for that derail us again. But I just wanted to let you know. Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

I appreciate you closing the loop on that.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay, so anyway, so you have to go all the way down to the cars.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. So I'm. I'm like. I'm jumping in the water. I'm also not sure what the water temperature is because I'm the only person that's pretty much not in a wetsuit. Somebody who jumped in, in the wetsuit said, oh, it's frosty. And I was like, oh, shit. I just thought, you know, it's Florida. It's blue water. It's gonna be fine. Is it also cold?

The good news was the water was not overly cold for me. It actually felt really nice. It was really comfy. But now we're like, the. The waves are Just tossing us around, and we're swimming over to, like, above the area where these cars are that are down on the bottom of the ocean.

[Andrew Walsh]

People are. And I just find on you from above. It's hell from above.

[Luke Burbank]

Vomit, rainbow. And, like, I. I just had one of these moments where I thought, like, I did not think this through. Like, I kind of had a sense that we were gonna snorkel a little bit, but I just. I thought, what if I can't do this? Like, what if I have forgotten how to snorkel? What if I can't swim? What if I get too scared? What if I can't swim underwater? What if I can't hold my breath long enough? Like, these are the thoughts I should be having a few days ago, not as I am sitting here in the Atlantic Ocean with, like, up to five cameras now trained on me and this other person that I'm interviewing. Like, I was like, how do I find. How do I get myself to these spots without any forethought? And only now am I going like, was this a good idea?

[Andrew Walsh]

Are there underwater cameras?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, there was. We had an underwater camera person who was with the organization Reefline. Her name is Nola. And then we had one of our CBS camera people, Olivia, who was in the water with what we call an osmo, which is like a small handheld camera that's on a little gimbal. And they had the hardest jobs. Well, actually, no, Olivia had the hardest job because she also didn't have a breathing apparatus. Nola had a breathing apparatus. So Nola could go all the way down to where the cars were and just be breathing in the scoot with the scuba tank. Olivia had to do everything. It's like Ginger Rogers. She had to do everything we were doing backwards and in heels.

[Andrew Walsh]

Heels.

[Luke Burbank]

Like, yes, she's got a camera. She doesn't have any special oxygen tank. So now she's trying to, like, swim down near the cars and then film us as we're swimming down to the cars and then, like, get it all on film, which is, like, a really hard thing to do because mostly just the lung capacity aspect. Like, basically, in order to get down to where the cars were. By the time you got down there, you were like. If you were me, anyway, you were out of breath. I know a guy who's out of.

[Andrew Walsh]

Breath about to say that.

[Luke Burbank]

And the first. Again, this is where this intersection of, like.

Me wanting this to look good on camera and also me wanting. It's sort of like when I drove the monster truck and I crashed it because I was really, I really wanted the people at the Monster Truck Monster Jam University. I think I was like a cool reporter. This thing kicks in for me where like, I'm just so vain and I want it to be cool, I want to look cool. That then I do something and I realize, oh, that wasn't a great idea. So the first time we, we, we go three, two, one. And I take in a big breath and I swim down to where the car is and I get down there and I like kind of touch it for a quick second. And it was very cool looking, by the way. I mean, it's a bunch of cars, but I get down and then I realize I'm totally out of breath. And I look up and the surface of the water is so far away. I also have fins on. So like when I'm swimming down, I'm actually like, I'm making way faster progress than I normally would, you know. Then I don't realize it because I have this device aiding me. So I'm like at the car and.

[Andrew Walsh]

I look up and I'm like, I'm sorry to interrupt. You mean flippers on your feet or something else? Okay, gotcha.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, flippers. Just the kind of, you know what I'm saying? Swim fins or whatever they call those things. And so I'm like down there and I look up and I go like, oh, wait, like I didn't think about the return trip. Like I'm, I'm out of breath now at this moment. And so I kick towards the surface and I'm just going and going and going. And it's still like 15ft away. It's still like 10ft away, like 8ft away. And now I'm just like completely out of breath. And I wouldn't say that I was like in fear for my life or anything, but I was like, I was, I was pretty. Let's just say I was pretty out of breath by the time I got to the surface, like I surfaced like friggin Ariel from the Little Mermaid or something. I shot out of the water.

[Andrew Walsh]

You're probably panicking a bit at this point.

[Luke Burbank]

I kind of was panicking the more times that we did it. And of course, because this is the whole thing with doing television, it's always, can we get one more? And that makes sense. You know, it's better to have more, it's better to have more takes than fewer takes. But it's like we end up doing it like 10 times, trying to dive down to the cars, trying to film it and and then we'd be like, okay, we got it. And also, I don't have a life preserver on. So this whole time I'm also just treading water in the ocean. You know what I mean? There's nothing. There's nothing. I don't have anything. Creating buoyancy for me. It's just, you know, it's just me treading water and whatever. So I'm pretty tired by the end of it. And they just keep going. Can we get one more? Or like, you know, one of the camera people has a different idea for a different angle. And so at one point, me and the woman I was interviewing.

I collided with her down at the bottom. And I was really like. Because we were both down there and then we were both trying to go back up, but we kind of went in the same direction then bumped into each other. And I was like above her and I was like, did I just kill the founder of Reefline? Because now I'm struggling to get back to the surface and she's. I've basically knocked her down on the ocean floor.

[Andrew Walsh]

And you're like, now I'm the founder of Reefline.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. Now I'm in charge of this public art project. So.

It ended up being actually a really fun experience. And being in the ocean was great. I actually would like to do it when I'm not being filmed. I like to go back to this thing and just swim around because it was. It was really lovely. The only part that was creating anxiety for me was being shirtless on television and everyone just watching me do this. I'd like to do this again in a low stakes kind of environment, just for fun, for recreation. But yeah, so that was the. That's how everything. And then, yeah, people were throwing up left and right. Including.

The artist who created the whole art piece. He's from Argentina and he was visiting this piece of art for the first time. His own piece of art.

[Andrew Walsh]

He's just puking all over his own art.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, the irony, he. He scuba down there. So he had the tank and everything and he got to see his stuff. It's actually very cool. There was a sand dollar on top of one of the cars, which he. Which he was going to bring back to one of his kids in, in Argentina. But then after that triumphant moment, he then was one of the many people who were just absolutely seasick, just hurling off the side of the boat.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know that you know what you're doing in these stories better than I do occasionally. Having said that, I feel like this is the story that should have Jason Momoa in it. If you would just take a little bit of editorial feedback on that instead of having him in a story about Metallica.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, no, this is the time for Aquaman.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I feel like you should have had a producer interview him underwater as you stormed off.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, next year's black carpet, that's what I'm going to lead with.

[Andrew Walsh]

Thank you, baby.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, let's thank our donors. These wonderful, generous people are keeping TBTL rolling along with their voluntary donations. It's the only way this can work. 100% listener supported podcasting right here, my friends. We don't have money to buy crazy ocean billboards, which I was seeing yesterday. Andrew. Like, this is.

[Andrew Walsh]

Are you sure? I've never seen anything like money for.

[Luke Burbank]

That last billboard we did was a pretty big disaster in and of itself.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, what would be better than putting a billboard for TBTL at the bottom of the ocean?

[Luke Burbank]

This is crazy, though. They have these barges here in Miami that are just have a huge digital billboard on them, and the barge just floats around, like where we were, like a few hundred yards offshore with this digital billboard just advertising to anyone who's on the beach.

I'd never seen anything like that.

[Andrew Walsh]

So it's. It floats around. But the billboard you said for the people on the beach. I got a little bit confused there. So the billboard.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, well, it's. It's. That's. You know what I mean? That's who it's in. Have you ever seen those planes that fly around and they pull a big banner?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what I was picturing.

[Luke Burbank]

It's that. But it's floating on the ocean and it's enormous. Like, it's like I can see them from my hotel room, and I'm not on the water. I'm, you know, three blocks away from the water, but I can read there's a billboard right now that's advertising Espalone Tequila.

[Andrew Walsh]

You know what my issue was? Was I was picturing these submersed. And I don't know why. That's why I was confused. I thought you were talking about some.

[Luke Burbank]

Ask Aquaman.

[Andrew Walsh]

I honestly thought, like, this is such a specific group of people that you're trying to advertise to. I thought you meant it was for the people who are scuba diving and that there's advertisements for people and that they were being towed around underwater. And I'm just like, this is such a specific. And it's. What would it advertise? Would have to advertise scuba gear, right?

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Andrew Walsh]

Otherwise, what else could it advertise?

[Luke Burbank]

Pretty much, yeah. Scuba gear, is it? Or scuba training.

[Andrew Walsh]

Scuba training, yes, exactly. Or fish food. For the fish, maybe.

[Luke Burbank]

Maybe fish food. I don't know. Maybe metal detectors. Sometimes people go in the water with metal detectors.

[Andrew Walsh]

I want to get into that. We had some listeners you would like pretty hardcore into that a while back. I don't know if you remember that. I think maybe I want to say Bobby and Will, but I could be wrong about that. But it sounds really tempting to me to. I feel like once you start, once you get a metal detector, I could be wrong about this. I feel like it's not something you do casually. You're either in or you're out on metal detecting. You become that guy.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you know, I did a TV story about these detectorists, these people that are seriously in the lifestyle of metal detecting. And I'll tell you, the devices that they use, they're nothing like that thing you might have picked up at Radio Shack as a kid or whatever.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's literally the kind I had as a kid.

[Luke Burbank]

A little high powered, you know, devices. And they find. It's amazing the stuff that they find so tempting. All that is to say the way that the TBTL business model works is that people like Christian McKee of Portland, Oregon are donating money to the show. And here we are. Thank you, Christian. Thanks to Rachel Howard Till in Woodland, California.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice. Thank you, Rachel.

[Luke Burbank]

This is a really nice geographic distribution today, Andrew. I'm loving this. We've got Portland, Oregon, We've got Woodland, California. We've got Robin Burlingham who's in Saskatoon. Nice, Saskatchewan.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, we just went international, my boy.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, people don't tuck in their blues like in Saskatoon.

And then we've got Morgan Gilchrist Scott, who's in Waukesha, Wisconsin.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice. Thank you. And I always, I always ask this and it's always awkward and it's. Is it Morgan or Morgan? Did we ever get clarity on. I mean, you went with Morgan. I'm wondering if you know that confidently and I just forgot.

[Luke Burbank]

No, I just went with the spelling. There's an E on there. I'm assuming that, that he was put there for a reason.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I apologize. I think I do this every single.

[Luke Burbank]

It's part of why Morgan donates.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, exactly. We got to hear us A and a B on that butcher.

[Luke Burbank]

Their name. Thank you, Morgan or Morgan. And also thanks Maya Swains in Seattle, Washington. Beautiful Seattle. A lovely town indeed. Absolutely. I love that place so much that I'M going to be there on Friday night doing livewire at Benaroya Hall. Maybe I'll see you there. Maya Swains. I don't know if Catherine Jory is going to make it from Huntley, Montana. That's kind of a trip. Although you're invited. Katherine would love to see you there as well. Catherine also supporting TBTL today. Thank you so much to all of our donors. This would not be a thing without you. We appreciate you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hello and welcome to Top Story.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I don't know if this is a Top Story, Andrew, but I did find it kind of interesting. Last night I get into the lift. I was going to this dinner that was being thrown for the artist who had made the. The underwater art sculpture that's also the coral reef. And I get in to the lift and the guy is playing. The guy's listening to the radio and he's playing Delilah.

[Andrew Walsh]

No. Nice.

[Luke Burbank]

And I was stoked because I love Delilah. I love that show. I mean, I don't listen to it on the regular, but I find it very comforting. And I love that it's still on. I love that it's on in Miami and that it's popular. And I was like, oh, you're listening to Delilah. He goes, yeah, my dad used to listen to this. And I really, I just love it. And it just, like, so really into it. I was like, oh, that's so great. And I was like, you know, I actually work in radio, and she's from Seattle, which is where I'm also from. And. And he goes, oh, really? He goes, well, I need to ask you something. He goes, are the calls real?

[Andrew Walsh]

Like, you would know better because you live in Seattle or.

[Luke Burbank]

Because I work in radio.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Luke Burbank]

And I could just tell in his voice that, like, he was going to be pretty crushed if the calls to Delilah were faked. And I told him with confidence they are real because I do believe they are real. And then I explained to him what's not real is. And I don't know if you're up on these morning shows, Andrew, that do all of these, like, phony phone calls, but they don't tell you that they're phony. It's always like someone's calling in after the world's worst date, and then the person who was on the date with them is calling in on the other line and disputing their account of things. Or like there's a bit called War of the Roses where you supposedly send roses to. To somebody you're dating. Then they have to try to guess who sent them and they're guessing the wrong person because they're cheating on you. That's all. This like, basically like commercial radio morning shows have just turned into these phone calls. That's the most popular thing in morning radio. And they're all fake, they're all actors. I'm sorry, by the way, you love these things.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And not only is it disappointing to know that they're fake, but also, tell me if I'm wrong about this, but they're not even like local. They're not even like, well, this station is setting it up. It's basically they're just national companies that are just feeding the same content to morning hosts around the country on any given day. Right. And that really. Yes, that's the real crappy part. Sorry for the language.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, totally like that's, yeah, it's not even like if, if the local station, if they had some producers like putting together these really convincing kind of funny spoofs or whatever, I would tip my cap to that. But yeah, this is just like pre programmed crap that you can buy, throw on your station. And again, it's really, really popular. So I told him, I was like, I do think the stuff in the morning is probably made up. But I go, I am here to tell you, my friend, the calls to Delilah are very real. It's somebody wishing their, you know, their, their, their husband is overseas, you know, serving in, in Iraq or Afghanistan and they're dedicating this song to him. I go, those are real people. They're really doing that. And he goes, yeah, but how does the husband even hear it in Afghanistan? And I was like, that's a good point. Yeah, he's probably not going to hear it, but I do. I can tell you, friend, that these, these, these songs of love and these dedications and these, these stories of heartbreak that people share with Delilah. I am of the opinion that those are real people, not paid actors. And I was happy to tell him that.

[Andrew Walsh]

You didn't tell him about the Tune in app that you can listen to local radio stations around the world with. That didn't.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, really?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I don't know. There are various. I use one called Tune in that allows you to listen to like radio stations from wherever. The problem is it gets blacked out during sporting events. But that wouldn't really apply here. I was never a big Delilah listener. I, I want to like Delilah because I love the format and I love the idea of it. I'm pretty sure when we were in Wisconsin Wisconsin 106 had Delilah at night. And I listened to a little time in years, but I think that. I don't know if it was the trappings. The music isn't really for me.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

And so it's hard for me to stay with it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, unless you want to hear Save the Best For Last by Vanessa Williams.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, I. Kind of.

[Luke Burbank]

On the hour, every hour. It may not be musically for you. It's one of those kinds of things that you have to get into it. Like, you can't get into it at 49. You know what I mean? Like, I grew up with it more or less, and it's very nostalgic for me. And again, it's like the music is not for me, the schmaltz is not for me. But something about it is very comforting because I've just. I've heard some version of Delilah for years and years and years of my life. So I sort of love it. But that's the reason I love it, because it reminds me of, if not my childhood in my teen years or whatever. Whereas if I just turned it on now at age 49, I would kind of go, this is definitely not for me.

[Andrew Walsh]

The weird thing is sometimes the very thing you're looking for is the one thing you can't see.

[Luke Burbank]

Sometimes, Andrew, the sun goes around Sometimes the sun goes. Sometimes the sun goes round the moon. I kind of want to hear something. Something. I could see you having a phase with that song. I feel like you. You kind of. What was the. There was another song of that era that I feel like you were really.

[Andrew Walsh]

Into a few years ago, like a while back. It was like 10 years ago now. Luke's. I remember exactly when I got into it. I did go into, like, an unironic. An unironic, I should say, soft rock phase when I was in la. It was so early in my tenure in la, I believe it was. Genevieve was not down in Los Angeles yet, and it was New Year's Eve. And I remember I was hanging out with a friend, and then she dropped me off at my weird little airbnb at, like, 9pm and I still had, like, three hours left before midnight. But I also don't really care about midnight on New Year's Eve that much or whatever. And somehow I got into.

Well, I know I ended up building a playlist around the one song that I was obsessed with, but I remember the read.

Became a big part of that. Who did the read?

[Luke Burbank]

The Reed is a song?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, by. Oh, Luke. This is the worst.

[Luke Burbank]

It's the nouns. I heard somebody say this the other day. Oh, Mike Schur. Mike Schur, great television creator, said he and his wife were talking the other day, and he said it's the nouns. That's what goes first. It's persons, places and things.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no.

[Luke Burbank]

And he just. His nouns are going. And I think it's happening to us.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay. I don't think it's called the reed, but I did remember the name of the person I'm thinking of. It's Bette Midler. What is one of Bette Midler?

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, Bette Midler. The Rose.

[Andrew Walsh]

The Rose. Does she sing about reeds in the song the Rose?

[Luke Burbank]

Not that I remember. Some say love is a river.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And isn't there a line that flows to the sea? Yeah. So what are the rose.

[Luke Burbank]

Hold on, let me get my karaoke machine.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, that's actually really good. Let me see here. The Rose. I swear, she says something about the reed. I need to be right about that. Some say.

[Luke Burbank]

I believe you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay. The first line is Some say love. It is a river that drowns the tender reed. Now, the fact that I would call it the reed is a problem. That is a real. That is an absolute problem. I will admit that. But at least I'm not. After what I just did to you, to the listeners to this show, I needed to at least have a kernel of truth to read.

[Luke Burbank]

You were right.

[Andrew Walsh]

That was good. Yeah. So. But what was this song that I was obsessed with? I will tell you in a. In a little bit as I look.

[Luke Burbank]

Through my playlist here, just to wrap it up on the Delilah thing, I. Again, I. It's weird because none of it is. Is particularly of interest to me, except, again, taken I. The happiness I felt when I got into that lift and he was playing Delilah was. Was palpable for me. Something else that has brought me a lot of happiness.

[Andrew Walsh]

We Almost have It All. That is a song that. On New Year's Eve 2014, going into 2015, for some reason, I listened to that on repeat that evening in my weird. In. In my weird little Airbnb in a somewhat depressive state, didn't We Almost have it all by Whitney Houston? Then I built a playlist that followed up with the Rose. And then, let's see here. Time After Time by Cyndi Lauper.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, dude. I have openly wept to Time After Time.

[Andrew Walsh]

So good when she whispers it.

[Luke Burbank]

No, actually, you know what? Yes, that. But maybe more was it. It might have been true Colors.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, yeah. Both of them.

[Luke Burbank]

Both of them really get Me, but I have this memory of being like. I think Becca and I were driving somewhere and like True Colors came on and we were. It was one of those things. We were singing along to nostalgic music. There was some like. I don't know if it was like a playlist or a Pandora station, so we kind of didn't know the next song. But then be like, oh, remember this one? And we were singing along and enjoying it and I swear to God, True colors came on and I was just trying to sing it, but I kept getting. My voice kept catching because I was like feeling like I was going to cry. But I wanted to keep singing the song, but I was just like, just quietly crying, looking out the window while True Colors is playing.

[Andrew Walsh]

I can totally relate to that. I honestly can. I also want to share some more on here. I'm not listing everything, but there's some sleepers on here. Sometimes when we touch by Dan Hill.

[Luke Burbank]

The honesty is too much.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

I've never understood that line.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sometimes when we touch. Yeah, the honesty is too much. I don't know what that means.

[Luke Burbank]

And also probably what Premature ejaculation.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, geez Louise. Don't worry.

[Luke Burbank]

Hey, you already said crap.

[Andrew Walsh]

And the other one I just want to shout out while we're talking about Delilah is Peabo Bryson, if ever you're in my arms again. That's a good one. And I needed the good microphone to sing that as well, so.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, throw Vanessa Williams on the list.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I think I will.

[Luke Burbank]

Vanessa Williams. Oh, you're so divine. Just wanted to put your name in my rhyme. Do what you like. That's what Digital Underground on the song. Do what you like.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay, now I'm going to sing that from the beginning all the way to the end. Isn't that a nine minute rap song?

[Luke Burbank]

Or am I. I believe it is a very, very lengthy song.

[Andrew Walsh]

All right.

[Luke Burbank]

I see guys and girls dancing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Do what you like, do what you.

[Luke Burbank]

Like Itch if you like. We could do this for a long time and it would just get worse for the listeners. So I'm going to switch back to something that may or may not be more entertaining, which is us talking about the chair company. Finally, the. The wellspring of content from. From whence today's intro tape springs from like Rudolph the great Tim Robbins. It's Santa can't do it.

[Andrew Walsh]

They're all just like, santa can't do it.

[Luke Burbank]

First question I have for you. Well, first thing I will say is there's going to be some spoilers in Here. If you're watching the chair company on HBO, you might want to check back in 15, 20 minutes, I guess. But first of all, was that the last episode of the season? Was that the season finale?

[Andrew Walsh]

That was the season finale. This is why you're confused. Because it was an eight episode season and a mystery was introduced in episode one. And it was so perfectly wrapped up and cleaned up and packaged up with a bow at the end of episode seven. I thought episode seven was gonna be the last episode of the season because I was like, well, that seems right. It ends like the show ends differently instead of cutting to black. I mentioned this the last time we were talking about it. Episode seven ends with a long shot on, on Tim Robinson. I keep thinking about what you said about how you've never connected with a character as much as where he's.

[Luke Burbank]

He's crying, but admiring himself in the mirror for his selflessness.

[Andrew Walsh]

He's looking himself in the mirror while holding a loved one, crying, both because he can't do what he wants to do, but also he's doing the right thing. So he's mostly so proud of himself. So proud of himself. And they just linger on the shot of him for like a long time while the credits roll and you're like, what a great little way to wrap up this weird season. And a lot of things were answered. It's still a weird show. It's still a surreal show. But then you're like, wait a second, aren't there eight episodes? And yes, you're right, there are eight episodes in this season. And so this last episode that dropped, it just opened up so many more questions. It was just kind of like, yeah, and guess what? Nothing makes sense. Nothing makes sense. We're just going to start a million new threads of absolute. Of just absolute madness. Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

I thought the, at the very end, the person in the mask, I thought when they took the mask off, it was going to be Jim Downey's character.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, interesting. That would be an interesting.

[Luke Burbank]

And that because I was still my, you know, the mind is trying to seek a rational explanation and a rational framework at all times. And I kept trying to find a rational framework for what was going on and there was none to be found. It's just a. It's a guy with an obviously enhanced face of some kind who's revealing himself to be the boyfriend of somebody else who's been a kind of a central but also side character in the show. And it just, it, it's. It. I mean, I guess what our takeaway is that there's going to be a season two, Right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, there's definitely be a season two. I guess the announcement that it was, you know, cleared for a season two, whatever the industry jargon is. I'm not in the industry, but it.

[Luke Burbank]

Was maybe not re. Up.

[Andrew Walsh]

Re upped. Yeah, I think re upped would work there. I think that news broke between episodes seven and eight. Well, obviously, I believe, and I would be. I'm. I'm sure I could be wrong about this, but my guess is this entire show was probably in the can, certainly all shot and if not fully edited before the season premiere even began. Right. Like, I don't think of this show as a show that is still, like, in production while episode two is airing. They're working on episode eight. I'd be kind of surprised by that. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I was the one that was wondering if they went back to the clothing store, back to Tremblays, because that guy was such a breakout star. And you were like, no, that would be definitely written like this. So I guess, I mean, I'll. I will defer to you on this as far as what the. Like, how in advance the show is all thought out. What. Here's what I will say. If they. If this is how they wrote the final episode, you know, from the get. Like, if this is always how the final episode of the season was going to go, they really were playing with fire. Thankfully, they've got. They've got renewed. That's the word we're looking for, by the way. Sure.

[Andrew Walsh]

Renewed. Yeah. Because they. But the thing is, I'm also wondering, do they just not care? So the question that we're asking is, did they say, this is how we're going to end our season, we're going to wrap things up in episode seven and then just add a whole bunch of brand new information, new characters, new weirdness, new surreality. We're just going to add all of this in episode eight, and we don't even know if we're going to get renewed or not. Did they do that?

[Luke Burbank]

Or I guess, gutsy. It is gutsy.

[Andrew Walsh]

And also, do they care, though? Because they could also start season two and in the first 10 minutes of season two, just wipe out everything that happened in episode eight? Right.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, this is the thing. I mean, are you legally. Are you allowed to end a series the way that they did? Legally?

[Andrew Walsh]

No, I don't think so.

[Luke Burbank]

Under the laws of America. Can you take a kind of a noir show that sort of, you know, is going in one direction as far as the mystery that's being solved, and then just like open 20 new weird mysteries in the final episode with no intention of ever solving them. I mean, legally, are you allowed to do that?

[Andrew Walsh]

Only. Only at the high or in high seas, I believe. Are you at the high seas or in the high.

[Luke Burbank]

Is it international waters?

[Andrew Walsh]

On the high seas, you're allowed to do it, but not here in the States.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, listen, if there's a group of. We'll call them filmmakers. If there's a group of people who make a show, who would be most likely to just decide to end the show on a million weird question marks, it would be these guys. So you know what I mean? Like, I could see them just being like, wouldn't it be funny if instead of solving the mystery, we made five new mysteries and we had no intention of solving? Wouldn't that be a lark?

[Andrew Walsh]

Like, episode eight begins with a wedding scene that has all new characters. We have no idea who any of those people are. We meet a father of the bride who smoked too many cigars so he.

[Luke Burbank]

Can'T dance, got drunk.

[Andrew Walsh]

And also probably. Yeah, maybe they were just using a euphemism. And then somebody ends up getting shot in that opening scene.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, that guy kind of comes back around.

[Andrew Walsh]

We hear the name later at the end. Right, but that's it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, the way.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that.

[Luke Burbank]

That scene where the guy comes over so that the father of the bride who's just kind of embarrassed himself at the wedding, he's sitting at the hotel bar and he's being cut off because he's too drunk. And then this guy comes and sits next to him and is sort of saying, oh, that speech you gave, did you write that? That's music. That's poetry. And then he's like, I think I could. I'm going to be out in LA and I could ask about. And he's basically kind of like hyping this guy up to make him think that he's some sort of creative genius. And you know what that reminded me of so much was Moon River Rock, my Q zone. I feel like this is one of those sketches that's oddly a blank spot. I don't want to say oddly for you, like you. You've done anything wrong, but I feel like I always bring it up and it seems like you may not have seen it, but it's from. I think you should leave.

[Andrew Walsh]

Which one? There are definitely sketches in there that for some reason don't stick in my brain very well.

[Luke Burbank]

I think it. Okay, here's how I think it starts. I think it might start as, I think it might start as a back pain, a back surgery ad it's like, now I can play tennis, now I can do this. And then Tim Robinson's care is like, now I can pick my daughter up over my head or I can pick my son up over my head or something.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right? Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And I think that deteriorates into a crazy divorce thing where also, if I'm remembering right, the Tim Robinson character has also been spending all this money trying to become a recording star with this Fly By Night agent played by Connor o'. Malley.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. I remember you telling me about this on the show and I had to go back and rewatch it. Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And he's telling him like it's, oh, the song is going to be a hit. We just got to fly Jerry Dale in from Indianapolis to produce it. And like, basically this other guy runs in and is like, you told me you were going to give me that song. And basically the joke being that you've got this like producer who's preying on the insecurities or the dreams of stardom of these like middle aged men and telling them they're good singers and recording this music for them that's not going anywhere. It was just funny to see the character on the chair company doing a slight version of that. That's all.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. Connor o', Malley, by the way, I heard was in town a couple of weeks ago here in Seattle doing live standup. And I have a friend who went to see him and I was like, wasn't any good because I think of him like, was he screaming all the time? And he's like, no, it was really good and it wasn't him just screaming all the time. He said it was incredible, as a matter of fact, and that he does such a good job of just really letting the pauses just linger in this way that the audience would be on the edge of their seat. But like, that could be really bad standup in the hands of a less experienced comedian. But it was just, he just had this sort of confidence and was able to pull that off. And so anyway, Conor o' Malley actually regret not seeing him live.

[Luke Burbank]

I have seen clips of his standup or his, whatever you'd call it, his sort of one man performances. And they look really, really good. Like, like he's got a lot of like, you know, PowerPoint stuff that he puts up there and he, I think a lot of times he'll, it'll be like for some or all of it, it'll be like he's pitching some kind of a lifestyle system that, you know, that's super duper funny and crazy. The more of it he sort of unfolds and reveals and stuff. But like, yeah, he is. I think those, those shows in Seattle were sold out too. Like, I think he's really. I think he's really having a moment because of, because of, you know, showing up on shows. Like, I think you should leave. And is he. He's not in the Chair company. He's one of the voices of those crazy radio who by the way, Mike is still listening to, I think in the final episode.

[Andrew Walsh]

And, and okay. I mean, this is just all the spoilers since we've already spoiled everything. Like, I just. Mike has a body in his house chained up in the bathtub there.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I think that was a. I think that was a. Like a mannequin, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't think so. I think it might have been the guy who was wanted to go into the mayor's hot tub in episode six or whatever. Again, I could be wrong about that. I don't know who it was, but I think it was. I can open it up here. I don't think that was a mannequin. I think we find out that Mike has somebody chained. The show is just. Episode eight is just unrelenting, throwing absolute new material and new mystery at you. It doesn't answer any questions. Well, it actually answers a little bit of questions about Mike's relationship with his family, which ends up being pretty dark.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, okay, so this is my major question about this. Did we like this episode?

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm trying to figure that out. The other day on Monday you had it on the show sheet that we should talk about it. And I said, you know, I'm a little embarrassed. I did watch episode eight, but I'd watch after coming home from the bar late at night. And even though I know I watched the whole thing, I can't tell you anything about this episode. And I was kind of embarrassed about that. In fact, you texted me. This is an off air conversation. So let's have it here. You had texted me. You said, hey, I didn't get any props for that. For introducing you with a really funny clip from episode eight of the Chair company on Monday. And I didn't tell you this in text cause it was just hard to have the conversation where I was in an underground bar where my texting machine wasn't working very well. But the reason I didn't want to comment on it was because I Was really kind of embarrassed that I watched an entire episode of a show and I didn't remember anything about it because it makes it sound like I was blackout drunk, and I wasn't blackout drunk. And so I'm like, I gotta rewatch this. And I've been watching these episodes usually twice in a row anyway, because I enjoy them. They're funny. There's a lot of stuff that flies by quickly, but last night I sat down with Genevieve at a proper time of the evening to watch this show, and it ended again. And I was again like, wait, what happened? I don't remember anything. Like, there's something about episode eight that there's so much new stuff. Is it a vampire that takes him into the garage to show him a new shape? Who is that guy? And why does he. Do you remember the jump scare scene in the middle of the episode where he goes into some stranger's shed who apparently is Baby the dogs or Minnie Mouse's. Minnie Mouse, the dog's real owner, who's a bad guy.

[Luke Burbank]

And then everyone online is mad that he gave the dog back.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, exactly. But what happened? He's like, I want to show you a new shape. And he takes him into a shed. And then all of a sudden, we see a flash of him looking like a vampire, some sort of ghoul.

[Luke Burbank]

And then the next one wakes up on his couch.

[Andrew Walsh]

He just wakes up on the dude's couch. Like, what happened there? Like, there's just. Anyway, my point is, I'm less embarrassed about not remembering anything in this episode because it does not stick to the brain.

[Luke Burbank]

It is just. Well, it's almost like they thought, wouldn't it be a funny meta joke if a show that is ostensibly a noir mystery, in fact really just ended with a bunch of new weird things being generated and no satisfying answers? Because what part of what makes a noir compelling as the reader or the viewer is that you want to know what the solution to the mystery is. You want to know what the real story is. And when that is, when you finally find that out, it's a. In fact, there was a whole issue or a whole episode of this American Life, I think it was called I Hate Mysteries. And it was. It actually starts. It's very clever. By the way, it was. One of the producers was filling in for Ira Glass. The starts. The episode starts in a classroom where a teacher has this exercise she does with her students where she's got something in a box, and you can rattle the box, you can shake it, you can listen to what it Is. But you have to try to guess at what is in this box. And nobody could guess it in the classroom. And then instead of telling them what's in the box, she just says, there's just some things you can't know. That's a life lesson. And the kids revolt. These are like. These are. These are like first graders. They're so mad about not finding out what is in the box. And this is what they did. That was very clever on the show. They don't tell us, the listeners of this American Life, what is in the box until the very end of the show. You got to listen to the whole show. It was really. It was actually very.

[Andrew Walsh]

They do tell you at the end of the show, I thought you're gonna say they don't tell you at all. Like, we learned this.

[Luke Burbank]

I thought they weren't going to.

They had Tori Malatea actually do the reveal.

[Andrew Walsh]

Really? Are you serious? They actually brought him in. Oh, that's awesome.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, they just had him on the phone, but he just says what it was actually. First he says a really dumb joke, which I like Tori a lot. I know him. Tori's the best. But they go like, okay, what is in the box? And he goes, this is Tori Malatea. And he goes, your mama. Just kidding. It's. And then he. Then he says, what's really in the box? I was like, we didn't need the yo mama joke.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. That's kind of a strange tone, by the way. I do have it dialed up to the scene where there's a man in this bathtub in Mike's bathtub. In Mike's awful apartment. As Genevieve pointed out. She's like, I can't even stand the sounds of Mike's apartment.

[Luke Burbank]

The sounds yelling all the time outside the apartment.

[Andrew Walsh]

There's this always muffled sound of music thumping through walls. That real muffled sound.

[Luke Burbank]

And there's always somebody yelling.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's just so stressful. Any scene that's shot in his apartment, you just hear the chaos outside the walls of it. And now we're seeing the world's most apparent depressing bathroom. And this fellow who I think is the guy who was in the bar trying to convince the mayor to let him use his hot tub. You remember that scene in an earlier episode.

[Luke Burbank]

Thus. Thus getting out of the bar before the local media could see Tim Robinson holding him to account.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's right. I believe this man looks like he's either been drugged or knocked out. It looks like he might have a little bit of blood on his jaw. He is zip Tied to the old prison style toilet next to the tub. And there's something in the sink that looks like a plastic bag with some blue things in it. And it looks like the bag is bloodied. It is so, so upsetting. You were going somewhere though, and I interrupted you. You were going to be talking about how were you making the point that noir is good when it does wrap everything up or that it traditionally doesn't? Because it's been my. It's been sort of my experience that a lot of noir doesn't wrap everything up.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, well, you know more about the genre than I do, particularly as a reader. I think you read a lot more noir than. Than I do or have. So maybe that's a misunderstanding I have. I guess my point is it feels maybe. Okay, so maybe maybe the answer is that's more in the tradition of noir that. That we're not getting an answer at the end. Maybe they're being very, very faithful to how the genre works.

[Andrew Walsh]

Maybe. And I'm not 100% sure I'm right about that. I feel like, I mean, I've given examples before. I think the Big Sleep is a famous one. Or Raymond Chandler does not. I always have to make sure I'm saying Carver or Chandler. Carver. Chandler. I always pause. Same with right field and left field when I'm talking about baseball. I always have to.

[Luke Burbank]

How do you do. What's your mind to do for Chandler versus Carver? Because I've got thoughts in this particular.

[Andrew Walsh]

Case, I just threw one out there and I happen to be right on the first go.

[Luke Burbank]

I go, Carver. Because Carver was. He was in like he was actually up on the Olympic Peninsula. Right? Like he did some writing in Port Angeles.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, I didn't, I didn't know that or I didn't recall that. That's.

[Luke Burbank]

Carver was not the noir guy. Chandler was. Right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Carver was the guy who's like what we talk about when we talk about love and all of those. Like.

[Luke Burbank]

So I think when I think of Carver, I think of. I think of basically out kind of Port Angeles and then I think of Chandler. I remember the Chandler family owned the LA Times. And I think of LA as noir.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh yeah, that's great.

[Luke Burbank]

So that's just like my little memory device of Chandler versus Carver.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that makes sense because Chandler was l. A Noire. Right. I think of when I think of Carver, I think of Wendy's. Carver's. Have you heard about this?

[Luke Burbank]

It's like basically like a Wendy fancier Wendy's.

[Andrew Walsh]

It's like a fancier Wendy's where they serve ham.

That remains one of my favorite scenes because it duped me. It was such an awkward scene when they first start talking about Wendy's new Carvers. I told you this on the show last week, or, yeah, I guess last week. I really thought that they were leaning into some, like, product placement. Like, I believe that Wendy's really did have this special new Wendy's Carvers coming out.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, I don't know what's been tougher on the listeners. The Mariner stretch run where this show turned into a baseball podcast, or the debut and now eight episodes of the Chair Company, where it's turned into a Chair Company podcast. But I guess I could say to all of you who have not enjoyed this, your long national nightmare is over. At least for another year or two until this thing comes back. I will say, Andrew, even though this is the show that I have been the most confused by but have enjoyed the most, I feel like this is what it must be like to watch Twin Peaks.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, it's interesting. I've been reading. I didn't do a lot of reading about this season. I was just watching it. But then, because that last episode was so confusing this morning, I did read a couple of kind of reviews of episode eight. And I think people who are very reluctant to do the incredibly cliche thing of comparing everything to David lynch. And I'm not saying that you're doing that here. I just mean that, like, for the longest time, for decades now, when something is a little bit weird, people are like, that's Lynchian. And it's just a little bit. It's kind of like the Wes Anderson thing, too. Like, there's two. Oh, if it's a little bit twee, it's Wes Anderson. It's like, well, no, let's be a little bit. Let's not just say everything that's twee is Wes Anderson and everything that's surreal is David lynch. Because that's not true.

[Luke Burbank]

Right.

[Andrew Walsh]

But I feel like people even, like, I know one of the writers I was reading today, whose name I don't recall, was kind of like, I'm so loathe to do this. But this. This is the closest thing to, like, a Twin Peaks. I mean, it's more comedic. Not that Twin Peaks didn't have its own dark humor as well, but it really does seem Lynchian because it's bringing in. It's bringing in nonsensical stuff that is both. Both. Not just. Not just surreal, which is part of it, but, like, otherworldly in a certain way. Now, like again with whatever happened in that shed, you want to see a.

[Luke Burbank]

Shape, a new shape. Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

Like it's no longer.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, that felt very much like, you know, what, Blue velvet or something where you're going to some room and there's this key thing or whatever the hell going on in that movie.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And even the way. Even the way, like he. I think the way it's shot before he goes into the shed and kind of doesn't want to go in the shed. So. Yeah, I'm. I'm with you on that, I guess to go back to your questions, like, did I like this episode 8? I think I'm trying. I don't know how to put this in words, but I really did appreciate that this show was really weird, like absurdly weird throughout the season, but that it did follow a certain line.

Within the universe. It did make sense to itself mostly. Mostly. And knowing that at the end they just wanted to take the Etch A Sketch and just shake the whole thing up, or maybe that's a bad example. That would erase it, I guess, but just kind of like take the Lego set and just smash it all into pieces and then start building weird things at the very, very end. I gotta say I was a little bit disappointed because I was like. Well, I like the fact that you showed you could do something weird, but that did follow some sort of linear thought that it's not just. I don't. I feel like this gives it. People who don't like weird things just because they're weird. I feel like episode eight sort of gives them an excuse to say, ah, that shit's all just weird. And maybe I'm just like defensive of it or protective of it in some way, but I did love it. I'm loving having this conversation with you of reminding you of all the crazy shit that happens in this episode. So I guess I did like it. But I was really shocked, even watching it through a second time, that this is what they decided to do.

[Luke Burbank]

I think that I. I think this show has been really good for me because I think it has expanded my sort of ability to enjoy something that I don't really know what's going on the whole time because I tend to just be very linear and literal with the kind of stuff that I watch and read, the stuff that I enjoy. I just like it when the characters are doing stuff that I sort of understand why the character is doing this or saying that. And I enjoyed this so much. Even the Crazy Ass 8th episode I mean, just. Just this part that I played the other day of the Jim Downey character. They're trying to figure out what should happen to Tim Robinson for having pushed his boss at a. I mean, what would you even call it?

[Andrew Walsh]

It was a site visit.

[Luke Burbank]

A site visit where there's an. Some kind of a. Like, RC Tonka Trunk Club. That's Tonka Truck Club. That's whatever.

[Andrew Walsh]

Just.

[Luke Burbank]

Just Jim Downey saying what he thinks should happen to the Tim Robinson character. I don't think he should be fired. Just moved down three or four rungs or five. Like, that made me laugh so hard. Like, here's what I think. I can watch something that makes that. That. That confuses me and doesn't always make sense. As long as they're dropping in enough stuff that just. I'm just so delighted by this show. Like, I kind of. To me, the plot is sort of secondary and there's just like there were no episodes throughout where I didn't get at least like five truly hilarious experiences as a viewer. And so, you know, again, I think it's kind of been good for me because I feel like I will be more willing to watch something that doesn't always make a ton of sense to me as long as I'm generally enjoying it now. Also, the bar is kind of high because that other thing better be. If it's comedic, it better be making me laugh a lot during the episode. See, that's the thing with David Lynch. It's like the stuff that I've watched. I actually. The idea of David lynch as a person I was such a big fan of, I really thought he was fascinating. I loved his take on art and architecture and the weather and all this stuff, but I didn't personally find the humor in something like Twin Peaks that other people did. But as far as the chair company goes, they nailed it for me because even when I didn't know what's going on, I don't really care that much because I'm always just getting something memorable from one of the characters.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. And also it does, as a show, it does explore some aspects of human nature. One thing that I'm thinking of now is his boss is named Jeff. Right?

[Luke Burbank]

The Lou Diamond Phillips.

[Andrew Walsh]

Lou Diamond Phillips. I think that's Jeff. I don't want to get the. These names confused, but anyway, I think there really is, over the course of this season, an exploration of how certain men and even men in power react to other men and what it means to be manly. And you see that play out in kind Of, I mean, in a relatively subtle way, like, you know, something that happens several episodes ago, you know, begins with him just being, you know, he's out camping or just enjoying the outdoors in some sort of very luxurious way with these other men who are also, like, leaders of companies or whatever. And just like, by one kind of alpha male, kind of just like just somewhat degrading what he does for a living just sort of like changes the course of how he looks at himself. And then when he gets a little bit pushed by Ron and then, like, you see him sitting in this meeting and sort of like, you see it, it's eating away at him as the people who work for him see him as a lesser man in a certain way. And they don't hit you over the head with that. For a show that hits you over the head with a lot of other things too. So there's like, some real explorations in there, too. I also, by the way, this next thing I did not think of, and it seems so obvious now. I'm sure you did, or maybe you did, but one of the people I was reading today mentioned that, like, the Jim Downey character, he's in this wheelchair, but he's in the wheelchair for as long as he wants to be in the wheelchair. After he had an accident and got trapped on.

[Luke Burbank]

Even though he couldn't get there, he.

[Andrew Walsh]

Survived by eating food out of the freezer. He couldn't pick what he ate, though. He survived, though, even though he couldn't pick. What is he in a chair. It's the Chair company. It never even occurred to me that chair could be tied up into this as well.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. You know, I'm with you. Like, I also think does explore, in its own way. Yeah. A lot of topics of, like, masculinity and family life and the sort of workplace stuff. Like, it's sort of subtly. It's subtly skewering and kind of of, I don't know, highlighting all of these little ineffable feelings and moments of kind of, I don't know, ennui, frustration, like, joy, like all of these little moments of life that happen to all of us. This show does a really good job of creating those moments on screen. Whether it's something that happens to him at the office that's frustrating or whether it's like the guy who works at the building and is not supposed to take the. The. The inside chairs outside, and then he gets caught with the outside chair or the wheelbarrow.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

The wheelbarrow Sorry, the wheelbarrow.

[Andrew Walsh]

Don't tell anybody I took my wheelbarrow outside. And Ron is like, I just don't care.

[Luke Burbank]

There's just, like, all these moments that are just funny and relatable to me. And.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So, I mean, it is.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

There's a lot going on there, and I'm. I'm. I'm glad that we got to take the ride, and I'm looking forward to. To whatever they come up with for the second season.

[Andrew Walsh]

You know, What I meant to tell you, speaking of noirs that. Or I guess neo noirs that famously don't hold together or make sense is I started reading Inherent Vice over the weekend, and I gotta say, do you remember. I know that you're not a huge fan of the movie, and you.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I only watched, like, 35 minutes.

[Andrew Walsh]

35 minutes. And I'm kind of proud that I was right about something, because I've never read any Thomas Pynchon before, and I had not read that book. But I've watched that movie all the way through once. But I've watched the beginning of it kind of a bunch. I just love it as a vibe. And there's that narration by a. By a woman who ends up being a minor character in the movie. And you were like, I don't really like that narration. And you were familiar with the actor who reads it. I was not familiar with her background.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, she is a harpist, Andrew. It's the nouns.

She's married to Andy Samberg. She's Joanna Newsome.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, Joanna Newsome. Oh, yes, yes. So I do know that name, and I didn't recognize her as an actor in it, but anyway, I remember saying to you, oh, I kind of like the narration because I think it's. It captures some of the humor of the book, I'm assuming. And I said, I bet you those are lines from the book. That was the way that P.T. anderson was able to actually get. And it's true, Luke. The opening of the book. I'm about 50 pages in, and just around page 45 is the first scene that I don't recognize from the movie. It is almost like reading a novelization in reverse. And it's like those opening lines are literally the opening lines, the opening, like, page of the book. And I got to say, I am loving it so much.

[Luke Burbank]

I.

[Andrew Walsh]

It makes me like the movie even more because it makes me understand.

The humor in Inherent Vice. Like, I always thought it was a little bit funny and a little bit sort of droll and kind of, like, removed. From this sort of like this story of this doper private eye. But it is. It is written in a way that I laugh out loud reading the book. And again, I'm only like 50 pages in, and I know it's supposed to be one of the most incomprehensible plots. There are guides that kind of diagram out all the characters. I think at the end, there's going to be 138 characters and this sprawling noir story as he chases around a guy who is supposedly kidnapped but probably joined a cult or all these things. And it's got all of these benchmarks of classic neo noir stuff from Southern California, but it's also sort of a parody of it at the same time. It's really great. I'll probably never finish it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, good for you, though. This is something, Andrew, that I admire about you, is that. And we call this the Count of Monte Cristo factor.

[Andrew Walsh]

I just put that up on the bookshelf, by the way. I took it off my bed stand and it's up on my bookshelf where it will never come down again.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm impressed. Like, in fact, today we were having a conversation. We're waiting to set up some GoPros, and we were talking to somebody who. She's a sort of a historian here in Miami, and she mentioned something about Grant, like, as in Ulysses S. And then our producer on this story, a guy named Mark, who I really like, and he's like a really smart guy, but also really unassuming. But he was like, oh, yeah. I read that Ron Chernow biography of Grant, and he goes, it was intense. And I'm like, in a million years, like, that's the kind of thing I want to do, but I never will sit down and read the entire Ron Chernow biography of Grant. I would watch Ken Burns, who did one on Grant. I think that's how we were talking about it. I would read a magazine article about Grant. I would read the first 30 pages of the Ron Chernow book. I do not have the. And this is just a mat. This is just a failure of imagination and a failure of willpower on my part. But I do not have the. Other than a book I have to. I have assigned to me for my job as the host of Livewire. I will generally never get to the end of these. Like, the fact that you got to the end of the Count of Monte Cristo is impressive. The fact that you're re engaging with inherent vice and enjoying it. It's very impressive.

[Andrew Walsh]

It is really good. Really. I mean, I think that the story of Inherent Vice is that it's somewhat impenetrable. And the plot, I think, does become impenetrable in a certain way, but it doesn't mean the writing is impenetrable. You know what I mean? And I think that that might have been one of the reasons why people are kind of like. Like Leary to jump into something like this. Or who's the other guy, too, who wrote, like, Underworld, which Don. Don DeLillo, I think, you know, I. I'm always like, ner when I read.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. I've read, like, the first 10 pages of Underworld. I've read the first 10 pages of White Noise. I've read the first 10 Pages of some of the greatest books ever written. Andrew.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now you get to hear me give you updates on where I am in inherent. I'm into it for the next four years.

[Luke Burbank]

Absolutely. That's, I would say, generous.

[Andrew Walsh]

It could be five.

[Luke Burbank]

It could be three years, Andrew. Or four years or maybe five. Or possibly seven.

All right, that is gonna do it for today's episode of the show. Thank you, everyone, for listening. We are gonna be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio for you. I will be in Phoenix, ideally.

So I'm getting up real early, getting on an airplane, and I'm hoping that it is adhering to its scheduled time, which will put me in Phoenix in time to do tomorrow's episode of tbtl. I'm gonna be getting. I'm getting picked up at the airport, Andrew, by our friend Nora McInerney, who would not take. Yeah, we can talk about this on tomorrow's show. She would not take no for an answer regarding picking me up at the airport. Erin.

[Andrew Walsh]

Midwestern hospitality. I know she's not in the Midwest anymore, but it's so sweet.

[Luke Burbank]

I was like, I don't. I was like, I'll take a lift and talk about Delilah. Like, this will be paid for by someone in corporate America. She was like, send me your flight time.

[Andrew Walsh]

I will be there.

[Luke Burbank]

I said, I have to go right to the hotel to do tbt. She goes, I will be efficient. What do you want to drink? How about a diet Coke?

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice.

[Luke Burbank]

It's a real conversation we've been having.

[Andrew Walsh]

So that's very sweet.

[Luke Burbank]

We'll tell her that would be probably the first. First airport pickup I've received from a non professional in 10 years, Andrew. So we'll have much to discuss tomorrow on the program. In the meantime, thanks for listening, everybody. Have a great Wednesday. Please take care of yourselves. And remember, no mountain too tall and.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good luck to all.

[Luke Burbank]

This is hard to do.

Truly. I love sweet Ron.

But everybody should have seen this coming. The job was always too much for him. He was floundering from day one, and frankly, it was scary to watch. I don't think he should be fired. Just.

Moved down three or four rungs.

Or five, power out.