#4615 Grills Just Want To Have Fun

Summary

TBTL #4615: “Grills Just Want To Have Fun”

Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

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Episode Overview

This Tuesday edition of TBTL dives into the quirky mysteries of everyday domestic life, from Luke’s perplexing pizza oven conundrum to Andrew’s search for the coziest bar in Seattle. The hosts reflect on changing media landscapes (media consolidation, movie theaters vs. streaming), reminisce about the enduring weirdness of name confusion, and share listener thoughts about the show’s evolution. If you love rainy weather stories, long-winded mysteries with surprisingly mundane conclusions, and gentle roasting between good friends, this episode is for you.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. The Pizza Oven Mystery

[03:34–19:33]

• Luke finally tells the “mystery” he teased earlier: After a trip, he found his heavy, locked-wheel pizza oven had been bizarrely moved across his storm-battered deck. Despite security footage only showing time-lapse stills ("deck, deck, deck—then... pizza oven!"), the only thing moved was the oven—lighter objects nearby were untouched.
• Possible explanations: Luke and his dad debate whether it was wind or a person. Luke is skeptical, noting, “There's no way the wind could do this because so much other stuff… was unmoved.” [09:09]
• Resolution: A repeat event after strong winds confirms it really was the weather.

  "But then the wind did me a favor... it solved the mystery for me by once again trying to move the pizza oven." — Luke [18:48]

• Humorous family tangent: Luke’s mother “steals” his beloved literary magazine, THE SUN, echoing her history of borrowing sunglasses and forgetting to return them.

2. Bar and Café Coziness: Andrew’s Friday Night Out

[20:33–37:02]

• Andrew skips Luke's Livewire show, opting instead for a solo bar adventure inspired by cozy Midwestern family restaurants he visited while back in Cleveland.
• Disappointment in Seattle bars: He finds local spots either too “divey” or too “angular and super high ceilings” to replicate the homey Midwestern feel. 13 Coins and Vons come close, but the weather is brutal and the cost of drinks and appetizers is shockingly high.

  “Seattle doesn’t do cozy well...or it's almost cosplaying cozy.” — Andrew [27:00] “It was $77 for a nice evening and I tore through a big chunk of that book. I really enjoyed my time there. But...three drinks, an appetizer, and a bread on the side, and you’re getting damn near 100 bucks with tip.” — Andrew [36:35]

• Weather woes: Both hosts share their battle with historic windstorms, connecting the pizza oven incident to Andrew’s almost-lost hat:

  “It was moving pizza ovens. It was bedeviling public radio hosts. Myself is the public radio host in question.” — Luke [30:58]

3. Seattle Restaurant/Nightlife Observations & Traditions

[37:02–40:49]

• Andrew and Luke reminisce about high prices, changing bar and broiler atmospheres, and old Seattle haunts.
• Discussion on expense: Andrew expresses mixed feelings about discussing restaurant costs, considering political aspects like living wage, but admits that eating out in Seattle feels notably more expensive than in the Midwest.

4. Upcoming TBTL Holiday Zoom Party

[42:29–43:50]

• Andrew pitches a TBTL holiday Zoom party where listeners can share traditions or just hang out (December 19, 5pm PT/8pm ET).
• Luke and Andrew banter about how to sign up (“tbtl.net—click that big button!”).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On modern phone plans (Portlandia tape):

  “I love that tape from Portlandia...there is old enough that they refer to it as web.” — Andrew [05:21]

• On magazine theft:

  “I said, ‘I think that’s theft. You stole my magazine?’” — Luke [14:15]

• Wind and podcasting:

  “This is not interesting because I’m describing something visual and this is an audio medium. For us. I feel like we’re the last holdouts where we think of podcasting as audio.” — Luke [09:09]

• Generational magazine nostalgia:

  “We’re not living in the era of big magazine that you and I grew up in.” — Andrew [15:20]

• On the cost of going out:

  “It is an interesting dynamic around here… people around the country are like, what? You saw blueberries for $10 a pint? But it really is notable when the check comes.” — Andrew [35:52]

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Listener Support & Name Confusion

[44:10–47:02]

• Donor thank-yous to listeners with lighthearted riffing on the confusion between Kristens, Kirstys, and Kirstens:

  “Kristens, the Kirstys and the Kirstens. It’s too close together...You write names that are too similar to each other, my friend.” — Luke [46:01]

• “Let’s Make Names Great Again” banter: Luke praises “Michael Smith” as an “incontrovertible name” [47:02], Andrew teases him for “real, let’s make names great again vibe.”

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Top Story: Netflix/Warner Bros. Merger and the Decline of Movie Theaters

[52:05–63:40]

• Major concern: Netflix’s rumored acquisition of Warner Bros. could spell the end for big-screen movies as we know them, with streaming platforms disincentivized from large theatrical releases.
• Andrew’s skepticism: Sees danger in further media consolidation and the loss of access for indie theaters.

  “It’s almost literally sickening to me...these billionaires, billionaires with gross ties to gross people, fighting over this stuff. It’s so much more important than Coke and Pepsi to me, and it’s just…it’s so dispiriting.” — Andrew [57:40]

• Luke’s “Train Dreams” plug: A beautiful, small-budget movie shot in the Pacific Northwest, watched on Netflix.

  “It is phenomenal. It is really beautiful…almost no financial upside that I could see.” — Luke [64:06]

• Reflection on changing formats: Both wonder if attention spans and demand will kill long-form films.

  “Are we going to have the attention span to watch an hour-and-a-half-long movie? …I think eight minutes is about all I have in me these days.” — Luke [59:47–60:08]

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TV & Movie Pet Peeves: On-Screen Inaccuracies

[66:40–73:10]

• Andrew critiques Pluribus & Shetland: Annoyed by unrealistic uses of cameras and actor blocking for the sake of “cool shots” (e.g., flipping a camcorder’s viewfinder away, detectives talking unnaturally over their shoulders to the camera).

  “There’s literally no reason for her to do that [with the viewfinder]… The only reason they flipped it the other way was because whoever was shooting it...knew it would be a cool effect…” — Andrew [68:33] “I would have been so annoyed if I was the actor who had to deliver the lines that way, because…this is not how I would stand, but the director is like, ‘No, it’ll look better!’” — Luke [71:52]

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Listener Voicemails: The Mobius Strip of TBTL

[83:20–95:25]

• Kathleen in Bloomington, MSP Airport, calls to say she binge-listens new and old shows and finds eerie overlaps in topics years apart.

  “It’s a fascinating parallel universe that I’ve really enjoyed...Spotify says that [I’m in the] top 1% of listeners.” — Kathleen [85:56]

• Andrew & Luke discuss show transitions, “Good luck to all” catchphrase origin:
  • Andrew reflects on feeling like an interloper after Jen’s departure and the sometimes tough transition with longtime listeners:

    “There was a lot of public discourse about whether or not I belonged on TBTL...But there were plenty of nice people saying, ‘I’m loving this.’” — Andrew [89:13]

  • Luke admits he never clocked the controversy, just happy not to be solo anymore:

    “You were like a lifeline to me. I was so stoked to have you here…” — Luke [92:37]

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Closing Segment

• The episode wraps with classic TBTL gratitude and meta-jokes about the show itself, promising more “imaginary radio” tomorrow.
• Final sign-off:

  “No mountain too tall.” — Luke
  “And good luck to all.” — Andrew [95:25]

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Episode Highlights (Timestamps Recap)

• Pizza Oven Mystery: 03:34–19:33
• Andrew’s Cozy Bar Quest: 20:33–37:02
• Windstorm & Livewire Show: 30:36–36:35
• TBTL Holiday Party Announcement: 42:29–43:50
• Media Merger Discussion: 52:05–63:40
• TV Show Directing Pet Peeves: 66:40–73:10
• Listener Emails/Show History: 83:20–95:25

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain their signature self-deprecating, lightly absurd, meandering banter. Familial and warm with listeners; inside jokes abound, with gentle ribbing and nostalgia. Episode exemplifies TBTL’s charm: mundane mysteries, nostalgic tangents, and the feeling you’re listening in on two old friends.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a quintessential TBTL installment, with running gags about family quirks, Seattle weather, media trends, and a healthy dose of meta-podcasting. No context necessary—just settle in for an unrushed chat about the weirdness of life and friendship.

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Power Out!

Transcript

[Andrew]

The basic plan we have for the family is the family talk plan. It's called AllTalk. You get 400 anytime minutes, which you can use anytime. There's another one called even more family, and that is 400 anytime minutes, unlimited nights and weekends.

That sounds great.

[Luke]

We'll do that.

[Andrew]

There's more options. Can I. There's even more family unlimited, which is unlimited minutes and texting plus web.

Okay, so one doesn't have texting, the other doesn't have web.

[Luke]

We'll just get one that has everything.

[Andrew]

Okay, well then you want the simply everything plan. Okay, there's also simply everything plus.

Which is what?

Simply everything plus texting.

What we want is your most standard basic family plan with a satellite locator.

This changes everything plan is what you want. Then you guys want to add another line.

$5. Yes. Great.

So you guys are all set. That is the plan. Simply everything everything shared any 10 minutes plus rollover.

Great.

Okay, so. So you're all set. You're all signed up. Now, there is a nominal fee if you want to keep your current phone number.

Yeah, I thought that was a free.

Service after you pay for it. It is free.

[Luke]

So.

[Andrew]

Okay.

It's just a one time fee that you pay annually.

It's not a one time fee, but.

It is one time in that you only pay one time a year.

Great.

All right.

[Luke]

Great.

[Andrew]

You guys are ready to pick out your sunglasses.

[Luke]

TBT.

It's so easy. All you do is point and click. All you need is a computer and a regular phone line. W kubla Scat.

[Andrew]

Scat. Scabble wapa.

[Luke]

There's nothing classier than boring jazz music. I am here to tell you.

It's like your own mini garden. And, well, now that you think about it, it's kind of fun seeing how good it grows. It's kind of like you kids like. It's kind of like kids growing up. But the plan here.

[Andrew]

I've been talking with the most intelligent people in the world and I never even noticed.

[Luke]

Well, all right. Hello, good morning and welcome everyone to a Tuesday edition of TBT all, the show that just might be too beautiful to live.

[Andrew]

Are you sure?

[Luke]

That's what they said on Ask Jeeves. My name is Luke Burbank. I'm your host. I might have tacos when I go home. I'm not quite sure yet. Coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where it has been.

Incredibly rainy and windy and stormy and atmospheric rivery the last 24 hours. And it's going to Continue. We're told.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God.

[Luke]

I was looking at a weather map in the paper this morning and it was showing the different areas of the state and what the probability was that they might receive up to 5 inches of rainfall. And the part of the state I'm here in, here in southern Washington, literally the town closest to me, 91%. So 91% chance that we are going to get drenched around here. But, you know, didn't know you like to get wet, though. We'll figure it out one way or the other. We're battening down the hatches and bringing you episode 4615 in a collector series. Let the fun begin. I'm realizing now as I'm introducing today's program that I, while I was introducing yesterday's program, I started with quite the mystery involving my pizza oven and how I thought maybe I was being burgled. They came to burgle Luke's pizza oven.

And then I never actually told that story. I'm making a note to myself, pizza oven story. I'm going to be honest with you. It's not much of a story.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke]

But I feel the obligation to at least close the loop. Since I opened the loop yesterday and then there was no further comment on it because we started talking about the Howard Stern ship. We're going to have a very disciplined, very focused program here at episode 4615 in a collector series. We may also talk about the decline, the possible decline of movies as we know them. So who needs a movie or movies as we've many times seen them, that is to say, in the theater, it's because there's a deal on the table between Netflix and Warner Brothers. I keep losing it deals, and I don't want to make a deal anymore. And some people are big mad about it, including, I guess technically my bosses at Paramount, Skydance, who are trying to hostilely take it over. Anyway, we'll probably talk about that, but we'll definitely talk to this guy. Longest running cobra of the show. Maybe best known for his depictions of the tall ship. He's a really charismatic guy. He's funny. He cusses a lot. He's Andrew Walsh and he is joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew]

Good morning, Luke. I was just letting my neighbors know about our fast Internet here at our house where we live. Got some emails from neighbors who are no longer interested in being in the exthe affinity business, which is interesting because a big part of yesterday's show was about you reinventing in. No, you didn't lock in, Luke. It was not a contract that you signed.

[Luke]

I signed the Everything plus plan.

[Andrew]

Yes, exactly. I love that.

[Luke]

Plus texting.

[Andrew]

And I love that. That tape from Portlandia. Of course. I don't know if I need to say of course. There is old enough that they refer to it as web.

[Luke]

I know. I heard that, too. And it jumped out at me because it's. That would have been a time when it was not as much a given that every single phone is also your portal through which to surf the web. Obviously, it was out there, but I just don't think it was. Well, certainly wasn't like it is now.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And I just don't think we would say web. We would say Internet. We would say, you know. Oh, it has. You know, it has. You would say, you talk about cell data, you would talk about, you know, WI fi or whatever, but you would not say, oh, and it has. This phone has web. Yeah.

[Luke]

Can I just quickly, Andrew, tell you the story of the mysterious pizza oven? Encyclopedia Brown and the mysterious pizza oven, which is when I came home from a trip recently. So I have this deck that we built on my house. And out there on the deck, there's a metal kind of like, picnic table, I guess you could call it. It's an outdoor table, which is actually.

Screwed down to the deck because the wind gets real whipping out there high above the mighty Columbia. And then there are also four chairs. The chairs are very heavy, so they don't move. And then I have a barbecue that's out there on this. The river side of the deck. And the barbecue is, of course, right now it's all covered up because it's so rainy and wintry and gross. And then around the corner, so not out in the primary kind of windswept area, but around the corner of my house a little closer to where I'm now sitting, I have a huge wood box that's also covered that has, like, deck chairs, like, foldable chairs and things in it or whatever. And then next to that, up against the side of my house, very protected from the wind, is this ooni pizza oven I have that is on a special rack that I bought from the ooni pizza company. And it's on casters, it's on rolling wheels, and those wheels have locks on them.

And when I came home from some trip recently, I looked out on my deck and the pizza oven, which is very heavy, by the way, it's got a big, heavy stone kind of base to it for the pizza actually cooks on, had moved from the Side of my house all the way out around the big wooden box that's next to it, which was unmoved out to the wind swept part of the deck past the barbecue that was unmoved and was just leaning against the. It was up against the picnic table. And this is with. With the wheels locked so you could see where it had been dragged along the deck. There was a little kind of scuff mark and it was so confusing. I checked my security camera for the deck, which. Which, I don't know, it does this weird thing sometimes. It's. It's supposed to be motion activated. Like it's supposed to. If there's something moving, it's supposed to start recording video. But then a lot of times it just is like a series of photographs over 24 hours. So it's just like still images. And I'm watching the security footage of this particular day in question, and it's just like, deck, deck, deck. You know, no pizza oven. Deck, deck. The light is changing. The sun is moving through the background. The moon is coming up. It's dark now it's getting light again. Deck, deck.

[Andrew]

Like that shot in Pluribus. Did you see that shot in Pluribus where she falls asleep and they show a whole day pass and the lighting does exactly what you're talking about. I just happened to. Sorry to interrupt. I just happened to watch that scene last night. And what you just described is exactly that. You know that time lapse where it's really fast and you sort of see it's a very beautiful shot, of course, but you just see the sun change throughout the lobby of this hospital. So I can picture exactly what you're talking about.

[Luke]

In the midst of all of this, it's just like. Yeah, it's just like light changing. Da, da, da. Deck, deck, deck. Then all of a sudden, pizza oven. It just shows up because it's a still photo. So it's like I was like, what a. What a weird crime, though. Like, I was like, there's no way the wind could do this because, I mean, there's so much other stuff. For instance, I'm sorry, this is not interesting because I'm describing something that's visual and this is an audio medium, at least for us. I feel like we're the last. We're one of the last holdouts where we think of podcasting as audio. Like, it's probably not doing us any good. But next to this very heavy pizza oven that had. Was on wheels that are locked in place, there are two flimsy like folding chairs, like outdoor, kind of like, you know, you'd bring out to an outdoor concert or something. And those were unmoved. Those things weigh like nothing. And of all of the stuff on the deck, the only thing that was moved was this very heavy thing that was almost plucked out. Sorry. We've also got, I think, herd of geese flying over us here at the Medrono studio.

[Andrew]

I met a million of those guys the other day, just so you know, with the story. I had a theory that I was gonna throw out as a joke at the beginning of this. And the more you talk, the more I'm wondering if my joke theory might be right. But I will, I will save my questions and comments for the end.

[Luke]

So I'm. I'm looking at it on the security camera. I can actually send you this video. I don't know if this would be interesting to you or not, Andrew, but this is the, this is the surveillance state we now live in, is that I can actually find these things. And I sent it to Becca, so I'm trying to locate it in my text chain. But anyway, it was quite the mystery because I thought what an odd, like nothing was missing from my house. There was no indication that anybody was, was trying to mess with me or break in to my place. But on the other hand, it just seemed like it was absolutely impossible that this could have happened on its own because everything around it was undisturbed. And then, and I was telling my dad about it because he was over, and he goes, oh, it was the wind. I was like, well, there's no way it was the wind. By the way. My dad said something this morning that just made me want to go over and give him a hug and kiss him on the top of his head. He said he was thinking about buying some of those orange whistles that people are buying to blow if they see ice agents, people.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

I was like, walt, you're a good egg, dude. I love that my 72 year old dad is about to get his ice whistle.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luke]

To make some good trouble.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but, well, you know, I was gonna. You said you talked to your dad, so that blows my theory. I was like, didn't. Weren't your parents staying at your place when you were gone?

[Luke]

I did say they move everything by.

[Andrew]

Way, but I was like, there's no way. There's no way your dad in. And not to speak for both your parents, but certainly your dad as you describe him, there's no way he's a man who's moving that thing without Unlocking the wheels first. He's not gonna. Not Dr. That. That's why I was like, there's no way. My theory is right because he's not dragging that thing across the deck without unlocking those wheels. And certainly if it left us. Did you say it left a bit of a gouge, A bit of a mark?

[Luke]

Not a gouge. More like a scratch. Not even a scratch. A scuff.

[Andrew]

Something that'll go away with weather.

[Luke]

I think so. I think that the. I think the torrential rain has more than power washed the day.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Over the last couple of days. But, yeah, that. You know, it could have been maybe a possibility that my mom got a wild hair or something, like, set it.

[Andrew]

Up right between two chairs to make a pizza. I could see that scene.

[Luke]

It's definitely.

Oh, my gosh, my mom is such a character. They were here. My dad's still here, but my mom was here for a day or two. And there's this magazine, the sun, that I've been talking about so much. I'm just in love with this. I guess you could. It's not a literary magazine because they also have reporting in there. But it's just this great independent magazine out of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, that I have been getting and just really enjoying. And my mom is kind of into it, too. I think my sister Liz might have gotten her a subscription, or maybe she borrowed one from my sister Liz. So one of the things. My mom's always talking about writing and trying to get into writing, and the sun magazine has this great little thing where they do a prompt for the readers to write in, like, a really short little essay on, like, we're talking a paragraph, long essay. And they give you the prompt for the next edition and the deadline, and you send in. By the way, the prompt that I missed for December 1st was milk.

[Andrew]

Oh.

[Luke]

I'm like, I've been writing that story my whole adult life. I've been dining out on frozen milk in a. In a wading pool forever. But I was thinking where it will be.

[Andrew]

Coloring contest.

[Luke]

Now, that's a pretty good spoof. But I was telling my mom, hey, mom, because my mom's always talking about getting into writing. I said, maybe this would be a great exercise for you is to do one of these prompts for the sun for sun magazine. And she said, oh, yeah. And I said, well, let me grab my latest issue. We'll see what the prompt is. And she goes. And I go, oh, I can't find the magazine. She goes, oh, yeah. I was borrowing It. My magazine, Mom. I go, yeah, well, where is it? She goes, oh, it's in my car. Huh? I said, I think that's theft. I'm pretty sure we describe that as theft. You. You stole my magazine?

[Andrew]

Well, it's interesting because I think, like, if you were talking about a Reader's Digest. First of all, we're not living in the era of big magazine that you and I grew up in. But I mean, the idea of a magazine being something you could even steal, it feels like it comes from the fact that magazines are more scarce these days. And a magazine like this, which even if it's got reporting, I still think you'd probably describe it as a literary magazine. I think. I don't know. I would describe Harper's that way and Harper's as our.

[Luke]

If you describe Harper's as a literary magazine, then I would call this a.

[Andrew]

Literary magazine for these purposes. I'm not gonna die on that hill. But I understand what you're saying. It's a little bit special. I think I told you I bought a Harper's magazine. Feeling nostalgic the other day. Bought one at Bulldog News. That place still smells like magazines and coffee. It's so great. On a winter day. You come in from the rain, you go in there on the Ave. Anyway, $10 for a Harper's magazine. And again, I'm glad to support what they're doing. You can also get a subscription for one year for $15. So I can never figure out exactly how that maths out, but either way, my point being that growing up in an era where you just.

[Luke]

We're not seen as strong on economy.

[Andrew]

As liberals, you walk into any kind of waiting area and there's like, just stacks and stacks of National Geographics and Times and Peoples and Highlights and whatever. I'll just grab this and I'll take it to my car. As opposed to this magazine in 2025, which probably costs, I don't know, with a subscription, probably not $10, but maybe $10 on a newsstand. And it's lovingly crafted by folks I understand, maybe. Do you think there's a disconnect between how you two think about magazines?

[Luke]

Well, a couple things. In my mom's defense, she. What she had done was taken it. So while I was in, like, Florida and a bunch of places last week, my parents had arrived at my house, stayed over, left my dad's truck, went to the Oregon coast to the timeshare, and then come back. So my mom had harvested a number of my magazines to take to the beach.

[Andrew]

Yeah, and that makes sense.

[Luke]

Which is, which is fair. And I wasn't going to be home. So I, when I say, when I say, you know, theft, it was, I, I believe her intention was to bring it back. But it is just funny that my mom has this amazing ability to like grab the one thing in my entire house that I actually was thinking, oh, I, I'm gonna use that. You know what I mean? There's a hundred things my mom could have removed that would have had. No, I would have never even noticed. And this was the one thing was like, oh, let me get that magazine that I really like. Oh, I've got that. It's in the car. Oh, okay. Like one time she.

[Andrew]

And the car, by the way, was back at her place. Or was it.

[Luke]

No, the car was here. So again she was bringing. I want to be careful. I don't want to besmirch my mom's good name. I will besmirch her on this one though, which is my sister's husband, Josh.

I think my mom was house sitting for them and she. This is an amazing move. This is an all timer. She's house sitting for them and she wants to sit outside, but it's sunny. So she grabs my brother in law's sunglasses, Josh's sunglasses. I think some like nice sunglasses he was pretty excited about. And she puts them on because she's outside and there's glare. But then she puts them into the pocket of her jacket that she's wearing and then forgets she has them and therefore leaves the state with his sunglasses that Josh gets home. He goes like, I'm looking around for my nice sunglasses that I'm all excited about and they have literally they've been disappeared. Like that's, that's, that was not what was happening here. I think that the sun magazine was gonna make its way back.

[Andrew]

But anyway, can I ask you a question? Did she, did she already fold in the back cover of the sun magazine to see what picture was made? Because that's always a bummer, right, when somebody already folds it and you don't get to fold it in yourself.

[Luke]

Yeah, but this one is a photograph of ice agents. But then you fold it, you fold it in and then what does it become? What's the MAD mag? I mean, to be honest with you, I bet you Mad Magic Statue of Liberty. Oh, I bet you you know what the MAD magazine guys I think were on the right side of. Yeah, I'll bet you they were history and politics. I bet you anything. I bet you that, first of all, I think Mad magazine is technically still being generated.

[Andrew]

It is, yeah.

[Luke]

And I bet you that they have done something about this Homeland Security situation, this ice thing. But. Okay, so then I'm. We're still on the mystery of the pizza oven. And my dad is saying, look, it just was the wind. And I was like, dad, it cannot be the wind. It makes no sense. And then this morning I came out, or actually yesterday morning, I came out and the pizza oven had blown. Not around the corner again, but it had moved like six feet away from the side of the house and nothing else had moved.

[Andrew]

So did it move back closer to where it lives?

[Luke]

I returned it to its home.

[Andrew]

Oh, I see. Okay.

[Luke]

I returned it to its home post haste because, you know, I'm a very organized guy around here. I don't like things out of order. So I moved it back to where it went and I locked it back down and. But then the wind did me a favor yesterday morning. It solved the mystery for me by once again trying to move the pizza oven. It didn't make it as far as it did the first time, but it was an indication to me that, yes, in fact it was the wind.

Because again, it was doing. It was like in stage two of what it had done previously when it had an entire week to work on it. And I was appreciative because otherwise I was a little unsettled. I did think there is a possibility someone came to my house and weirdly moved this and then just went on their way.

[Andrew]

So I want to talk about the wind here. And if I talk about the wind, I have to admit something to you that's maybe going to hurt your feelings a little bit.

[Luke]

You zoned out during part of that story.

[Andrew]

No, no, no, no. I was with you. I'm sorry that I missed that.

[Luke]

You.

[Andrew]

You had moved it back. But I was. I was, I will admit.

[Luke]

Talk about the wind at Donovan song.

[Andrew]

The wind talkers, I believe. Sure. Weren't. They were wind talkers, code breakers or.

[Luke]

I think that they were. I think they were Native American.

Language specialists who were called wind talkers. And I think they used them for also doing. I don't know if it was code breaking or code making for the US Military.

[Andrew]

That's right, because it's turned into a movie with Nicholas Cage.

[Luke]

Not to be classic Mark Ruff. Native American hero.

[Andrew]

Nicholas Cage is here and Mark Ruffalo. No, this is back to hurting my feelings. This is back to hurt your. Oh, yes, the best part of the show. No, I actually do Feel kind of. I feel weird about this. I don't know how you'll feel, but.

I. On Friday, you had your show here in Seattle for Live Player, your radio show, and I knew it was down at Benaroya hall, and I think some friends, some mutual friends and stuff showed up for that and had a good time. And I remember, I think off air, you even said, hey, I'm letting everybody know about this. I know you're probably not interested. I'm like, yeah, help Genevieve set up some tables or something for this fair she's doing, this craft fair she was doing on Saturday. Well, on Friday, things kind of change a little bit. I ended up not going to the Eagles with Genevieve to set up the chairs, and I was just in this really weird mood that I've been in lately because I'm reading this.

[Luke]

Oh, I see. I see. I see. How this was going to potentially hurt my feelings was that you were available to come to Livewire, but you chose to do something.

[Andrew]

Well, not only that, and, you know.

[Luke]

I decided to host a different public radio variety show in direct competition to what I was doing.

[Andrew]

I was on a zombie version of says who, Says you. No, wait, says you. Damn, I messed that up.

[Luke]

I could never remember. It's one was called Sundays you, and one was called like, what? What do you. What do you know?

[Andrew]

Oh, what do you know with Michael Feldman out of the Midwest. Yeah, what do you know? Not much. Says you. Says you. That was based here, wasn't it? Wasn't somebody who worked for KOW hosting that.

[Luke]

Or maybe it wasn't Sandy Bradley's Potluck. Wait, you know, there was a show called Sandy Bradley's Potluck back in the day.

[Andrew]

I think you've told me about that. But says yous is that grammar based humor panel show that I remember you were even invited on once and you couldn't do it. And I'm a huge. I was a huge fan of that show when it was in production. But I say huge fan. I actually, I probably couldn't. There are people who are bigger fans, but whenever I'd catch it on the radio, I'd be like, oh, I love that this exists. I love that they're still making it. Unfortunately, they're not making it anymore. Such a niche thing. But I do remember one time they asked you on. You're like, no, but you should have my buddy Andrew on. And then I heard crickets. They actually literally called me up and held crickets up to the phone.

[Luke]

That seemed unnecessary, but that's why I.

[Andrew]

Thought there was some Seattle connection to. Says you. Because I think there was a host at KUOW who also filled in on.

[Luke]

The show, Porter, who was a weekend guy who also, by the way, did stuff on Sandy Bradley's.

[Andrew]

See, I knew there was a kid. I knew there was some sort of connection between all those. All of that is to say, what.

[Luke]

Did you end up doing?

[Andrew]

What I ended up doing on Friday was basically nothing. I just have been. So I've been reading this book. I think I told you I was reading Inherent Vice. And it's. It's. God, Luke, it's so good. It's like so funny. I'm loving it. Inheritance in Paradise. Yeah. And so I. I've been looking for good places to sit and read my book. And you know me, I'm no stranger to, like, dive bars, and I have plenty of dive bars to choose from around here. But lately it's just maybe because it's been chilly outside. And I do think that I. My trip to Cleveland sort of broke me in a way where one night I was going to meet a couple of friends for dinner at just like this pizza and pasta place. But I got there about a half hour early. And I'd never been to this place before. It's somewhere in the west side suburbs of Cleveland, near Westside, I would say. As if you care. And I go in and it's like this really cozy restaurant that's sort of in two parts, sort of. And what brings the two parts together is this bar area that is just like a very. I can't explain it. It's just a classic cozy bar. It's not particularly small, it's not particularly big, it's not fancy, but it's not a dive bar at all. It's nice and it's just super cozy, but it's also not like going to a. Like a nice restaurant or something, some sort of upscaled restaurant. And sat there for about a half hour waiting for my friends, reading whatever book I was reading at that point. And I loved it so much. And it's one of those things. I've come back to Seattle, I'm like, I can't. I can't recreate it in Seattle. And I know my Seattle restaurants and I feel like what you have here. And I'm sure I'm just missing it, but you have places that used to be maybe like a place like that. Like the. What's. What's the place that's. Oh, I'm blanking on it. The steakhouse. Kind of not not far from Wedgwood, the Wedgewood Broiler. That's sort of like. I like that. But it's definitely past its prime at this point. And, you know, the.

[Luke]

Well, you have to not. I mean, listen, the whole problem with the Wedgwood Broiler is the last time we went there, I don't know who was in charge of the seating, but it was a debacle.

[Andrew]

Well, we were in the back room with bathrooms.

[Luke]

Only an Xfinity store rivaled the lighting of that room we were in where the whole point of the Wedgwood Broiler is that bar kind of dining area, which has the bar in the center of it. It's just such a throwback. It's so beautiful. And we were in the annex. We were in a. In like a manufactured home that was next to the restaurant.

[Andrew]

It was that. Yeah. In the service. They forgot we were back there. That was rough. But I've been in there several times, and again, I like it. I'm not trying to speak ill of it, but it's just not. I can't explain it that, like, all the places I go are either a little bit divey or it's like, oh, you're gonna go some upscale kind of trendy place, which. Those places can be nice, but they tend to be more angular and super high ceilings and, like, I've just been struggling to find cozy concrete floors. Yeah. Which I like that as well. But I'm looking for again, Genevieve's. Like, you're obsessed with coziness, and I am. I.

[Luke]

Can I ask a quick clarification question? I don't know why this will help me. Do you remember what food you ordered at the restaurant in Cleveland that you're trying to reproduce? I wonder if that would help me picture it.

[Andrew]

Well. Oh, yeah. So it's just a family restaurant. It's nothing necessarily to write home about, but it's like an Italian family restaurant. Like, I had chicken parmesan when we sat down. I think it's like stinging at pizza, you know, pasta. Oh, right.

[Luke]

You said it was a pizza and pasta place.

[Andrew]

Yeah, maybe I mentioned that. It's called. I'm looking. I think it's called the Woods. Let me see here. The woods restaurant in business since 1983, the woods is a cozy neighborhood. Family cozy. That's what I keep saying. Cozy family run restaurant offering a beautiful, all wood paneled interior, outdoor patio, full catering, et cetera. Let's see here. Italian meals from appetizers, entrees, steak, fish, sandwiches, pizza, pasta, vegetarian, Items you like veget? Do you like vegetarian items, Luke. But anyway, if you're googling it, you can just see that it's like, it's just a family restaurant. There's nothing specific to, like, you know, call it out other than I just happen to have this one experience where I'm waiting for folks to get some food. The bar's mostly empty. There's some regular down the line, but again, it's not a dive bar, but it's not a fancy place. It's just a place. And I just. It was exactly the mood. I was just, like. It was a Sunday night, I want to say, because, yeah, the Browns had just lost. It was. Oh, the first snow of the season was, like, just about to hit as I, like, walked in the door here. So it just, like. It was just a lot of things happening to make it feel like the perfect little half hour of me sitting and having some sort of an IPA while I read my book at the time, you know, and so I've been in Seattle just looking for Friday night match that. And so I. So. And I know the places that I go, then there's always draftiness in a lot of places. Or if I go to a place that is a little bit nicer, like I say, it's just not cozy. Isn't something that Seattle does all that well. Or there's a place like the Cozy Nut in Green in, let's see, Greenwood, which I feel like is leaning kind of too much into, like, almost cosplaying. Cozy cosplaying, if that makes sense. So, anyway, I'm not looking for. I'm just looking for a place. And on Friday night, Genevieve's going to the Eagles. I'm now not going with her. I'm, like, laying on the couch, kind of, like reading my book, but feeling, like, sort of antsy. All of this has to do with wind, right? I decide, you know, what I'm going to do? I'm going to go to 13 coins. Remember our old place, 13 coins. And that would be. You know, it's not as much of a family restaurant, but it's a place where you could sit at a bar. It's going to be, you know, you're going to be well attended to. And you can fight a guy. What's that? Yeah, you can. Yes.

[Luke]

As I once did.

[Andrew]

Oh, you can fight a guy. I'm sorry. I thought you were making a reference to the chair company for a second. But anyway, so I'm like, I'll go down to 13 coins, but then I look and it's like on the E Line, it's. And I'm like, all I want to do is sit, have a couple of beers and then probably get some food at some point. But I want to sit at a bar, you know. And so I'm going to go down to 13 coins. It's about an hour long bus ride, a little bit less than that, 50 minutes where I'm like, do I really want to do that? Just so I can read my book on my phone and seems like a bit of a haul. And then I'm like, oh, well, what about Vons? That's kind of a similar place in between me and 13 coins. How about I just get on the E line and go there? And that's a restaurant that's been in Seattle for a really, really long time, but moved recently. And I'm like, oh yeah, you go.

[Luke]

There with television's Chris Hayes.

[Andrew]

Once I was inside, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, we were here with Chris. But I remembered Vons from its original location too. And so anyway, I get off the bus and first of all, this is what. Where the wind kicks in, if you will, is. It was the strongest wind I've ever been in in my life. It was like I was in one of those wind tunnel machines and a science fair. And what are you.

[Luke]

We were dealing with the same wind tunnel.

[Andrew]

No, that's why I feel. That's why I set this up to say I feel so bad. It wasn't until I'm getting off the bus and I'm walking to Vons and passing Benaroya hall and I'm like, oh my God. Like, I'm like, he's in. I mean, I think I passed Benara. I'm in the very. I'm like one block away from Benaraj. I'm basically right there and I'm kinda like, ah, damn, my friend's doing a show right in there. And I'm scuffling by myself just to like find it. And I end up sitting the Vons. There is not a seat to be had except for one squeezed in at the end of the bar. And nobody was taking it because the person who was sitting next to that seat was basically taking up two seats, basically. And I was just. I had said to that person, I'm like, hey, I gotta squeeze in here. It's the last stool. And I could tell she was not super happy to make room for me. But, like, I am trying to make myself as small as possible, like squeezed into the Very, very end of the bar, but it was the right place to go. Incredibly expensive. Two beers, some meatballs, and some. And a little thing of bread. And it was like $77 before tax or something. Wait, no, I had a shot. I had one shot, too. So there's liquor. But anyway, it was a little bit more expensive, so I guess it was free. Andrew, it wasn't the woods.

[Luke]

Livewire.

[Andrew]

Your invitation to Livewire.

[Luke]

Yes. The gift of friendship.

[Andrew]

The gre. I could have been eating chicken wings in the green room, but I did. So anyway, the wind, Luke, was amazing. I know you can back me up on that. It was like a Superman movie, right? It was like you could not walk. I was tilted. It blew my hat and over the head. Earphones off of my head at one point.

[Luke]

God, it was moving pizza ovens. It was bedeviling public radio hosts. Myself is the public radio host in question. So we were staying at this hotel called the Arctic Room Hotel, which, by the way, was awesome. That's where I was doing the show for you. And I was telling you before we started recording that I was like, oh, I love this place. It's just really old school Seattle, but it's just well maintained. They have this great lobby bar and great restaurant downstairs, and they're just super nice people. It's just classic Seattle, the Arctic Room. But it's about four blocks from Benaroya Hall. And I came out of the hotel on Friday afternoon. I was gonna go to Ben Royal hall for soundcheck. And I'm carrying my suit, so I'm dressed in my kind of regular clothes, but I have my suit. But, you know, for all of my obsessive kind of preparation and also acquisition of things, always to, like, maximize my life experience, you know, what I don't really have, what I don't really own is like a suit bag that I like. I have a whole system. I fold my suits up, I fold them into my suitcase and take them with me to places I don't have, like a garment bag. So I've got the suit, the pants, and the shirt I'm going to wear all on the same hanger, but they're not in a protected bag. And I'm coming out and I'm gonna call. I'm thinking, this is, you know, also, I just done my hair. I was like, I'm kind of like, you know, put together a little bit here. I should. I was like, well, maybe I'll just take an Uber or a Lyft up to the. To the theater, which is Three, four blocks away. But then I was like. It was like, well, you want to know the real thing? There are all these parts of downtown Seattle where you can't get an actual Uber to pick you up because they're designated transit zones or something. There's, like, a lot of rules down there. I couldn't. You cannot get. This particular hotel and Benaroya hall are two places. Andrew, that I could. I can't call an Uber to the hotel, and I can't call and have it drop me off at Benaroya Hall.

[Andrew]

You'd have to walk a couple of blocks anyway. And you were only a couple of blocks away.

[Luke]

Exactly. Because in both cases, we don't even meet. It wanted me to meet the Uber driver at a pickup spot that wasn't the hotel because of something having to do with the transit zone I was in. And then it wouldn't drop me off at Benaroya. It was going to take me to some other place a few blocks away. It was, like, going to be a wash, effectively. So I thought, okay, I'll walk. And where I was standing coming out of the lobby of the Arctic Room Hotel, I did not realize I was sheltered from the wind in that particular place. And so I did not know until I set foot on 3rd Avenue.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's what. Yep. I was walking down.

[Luke]

I mean, you could be like. Because. Yeah, you were coming out of the transit station. That's why you were so close to Benaroy.

[Andrew]

I. Well, I took the E line, so I was coming down from Surface Street. Yeah, whatever.

[Luke]

But going to the tunnel.

[Andrew]

No, I wasn't. I wasn't in the tunnel, but it was basically. I was in a wind tunnel. Like, I just. I was tilting. Like, I was walking down. Oh, that's right. I was walking down from Third at one point, kind of towards the market. And you. I'm walking downhill. People are walking uphill. You know this well. But I am leaning, Luke, I'll bet you. And I'll bet you people were thinking about this. People probably thought I was Michael Jackson because I was leaning so far.

[Luke]

They thought you were smooth criminal.

[Andrew]

They thought I was smooth criminal.

[Luke]

You had real questions as to if Annie was okay.

[Andrew]

Are you.

[Luke]

Are you, Annie? I'm only going to ask you this one more time. Are you okay?

[Andrew]

So anyway, yeah, it was. It was bananas. Like, the whole time I'm holding and I'm wearing kind of a. I don't know if you'd call it a trench coat. I'm wearing like a. Is it like mohair? What is like that kind of a.

[Luke]

Tan camel hair kind of thing?

[Andrew]

Yeah, camel hair that goes on, really?

[Luke]

But maybe in the style of that. Like a tan. Kind of a beige.

[Andrew]

Yeah. With a big scarf. And so that thing goes down to, like, my. Maybe mid calf or maybe. Maybe my knee or something. And. And so I'm kind of. And I'm holding. The wind is blowing that back. I'm holding onto my hat with one hand. I felt like I was in some sort of. I wish my hat had been a fedora, because I felt like I was, like, in a 1940s movie.

[Luke]

You know, I'm. I don't want you to. First of all, I want to be very clear, Andrew. Whenever I'm doing some kind of extracurricular thing or whatever you want to call it, I guess it's my job. It's not extracurricular. But when I'm doing something in Seattle, you're under zero obligation to ever go to that. If there's anybody in the world who has heard enough of my musings, it's you, sir. So I take a zero. You could literally have gone to the Muppets Save Christmas, which was the other part of Benaroya hall that night, and I would have been totally not offended.

[Andrew]

What if I protested it, though? Because I feel like that's how close I came. I'm, like, walking. I even had a moment where I was like, oh, my gosh.

[Luke]

I could into call in the big wind. Get him out of here.

[Andrew]

I'm riding a bicycle just around Benaroya with some sort of a protest sign about, you know, not attending the Livewire show. But, yeah, it did just. It seemed really weird that you were in Seattle. You know, you don't even live in.

[Luke]

Seattle, and you, by happenstance, ended up at the exact location of where I was doing the thing and still chose to pay $75.

[Andrew]

Still wasn't. And I don't even. And by the way, the money thing, I always feel cheap when I bring that up, but it is an interest. It is an interesting dynamic around here. You know, we talked about blueberries, and people around the country are like, what? You're paying? You saw blueberries for $10 a pint? Well, first of all, we are out of season, and there's a lot of things going on with that. But I really don't think people understand when you talk about just, like, the expense of Seattle, especially if you're going to a place like that that is not a dive bar. But, I mean, Vons isn't like, Super. I don't think of it as, like, a super fancy place either. I mean, it's good. It's just, like, a good place. But, like, you know, I had. I bought one appetizer, which was six meatballs. Really good meatballs, by the way. And then.

I didn't itemize the bill, but I did remember when they're like, well, do you want to order some bread to go along with that? And I was like, yeah, I'll take a little ciabatta, I believe, which was the right move. And again, no regrets. It was $77 for a nice evening of. And I tore through a big chunk of that book. I really enjoyed my time there. But it really is notable when the check comes, you're like, oh, yeah, okay. Three drinks. Drinks, an appetizer, and a bread on the side, and you're getting damn near 100 bucks with a tip.

[Luke]

Well, because. Not to count your money, but something about you that I feel like you've talked about on the show. I feel like this is.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke]

Is that.

You are a person who, in my experience.

You live your life in a certain way so that you do not overextend yourself or live beyond your means. But you work really hard, and Genevieve works super hard. And my sense of your lifestyle is.

You'Ve structured your life in such a way that you can go out to dinner when you want to, and you're not stressed out about the bill, and that's an important thing to you. And to a certain degree, that's a privilege. But to a big degree, that's based on decisions that you've made, which I really respect. I am kind of the opposite. I don't know how I'm gonna pay for dinner tonight.

[Andrew]

It's a disaster over here, Luke, right now. For listeners who can't see he's slicing a bean.

Were we joking around with that with Nora?

[Luke]

I'm wearing a barrel.

[Andrew]

That joke has come up somewhere in my life recently, anyway.

[Luke]

But. But so. And. And I. Again, I. I really respect this about. About you and about the choices you've made is that, you know, you guys have one car, and you share it, and you don't drive it a particular lot. You do take public transportation a lot. And you just kind of like. I admire the way that you live your life from a sort of a fiscal standpoint. And the upside of that is that you. You don't. My sense is you're not clocking. Should we get the appetizer or not? Or whatever. And so when you start noticing it and when I even start noticing it, like when I was in South Beach, I was in part of. It's because it's south beach, it's Miami, and it's, you know, it was Art Basel. Although I don't think that they. It's not dynamic pricing, but like, you know, I'm. I was shocked at the prices of something. I'd sit down to get a little bit of dinner. And again, not excessive ordering. I might. I wasn't even drinking on one of the nights. Just my dinner was 50 bucks or something. You know, it was like, what?

[Andrew]

Well, I'm glad you say that because honestly, even bringing it up, I'm a little embarrassed that I brought up the price of it. But, you know, because I really don't like to be that guy. I really, really don't like, oh, God, everything's so expensive. Or like, then just don't go, I.

[Luke]

Mean, be that guy right now. By the way, there's a political factor to it. If there's a time to be that guy, buy into the affordability con job created by the Democrats.

[Andrew]

Well, I mean, yes and no. I also think that, I mean, this gets into local politics a little bit too much than I want to take this conversation. But I do believe that the reason Seattle is especially expensive in these particular sectors is because of laws that I support and vote for, which is to make sure that people are paid a living wage. And since it's so expensive to live in Seattle, the living wage here in Seattle is pretty high, although it has not kept up with inflation over the past 40 years. So whatever. But the point is, I do think it's really important that these workers aren't just working off of tips. I think that's kind of a bad system. So I vote for laws where they're paid more money. So then when I go to get some meatballs and a couple of IPAs, it's going to show up in my bill. And so, I don't know, it is politically fraught all around. And also, putting politics aside, I just don't want to be that guy. You know what I mean? Either I'm going to pay for something or I'm not wringing my hands over the price of popcorn at a movie theater and saying, back in the day it wasn't so much. It's just such a cliche move that I don't like to that guy. So I'm kind of regret bringing it up here. But I do think comparing the experience that I was looking for to like this just, I don't know. I just went to this family restaurant in Cleveland and it was cozy and it was nice. And just trying to recreate that in Seattle is just difficult for various reasons.

[Luke]

I was going to tell you, though, that not only not mad at you about. About missing Livewire, but there's a different person in our friend universe who I'm definitely much more mad at, and that's our friend Leni. That's prom Queen. That's another entertainment endeavors. I don't know.

[Andrew]

Friend of snacks, right? Friend of snacks.

[Luke]

Good friend of snacks. We've never seen Celine and snacks in the same room.

[Andrew]

They say they're friends, but I never see them hanging out. That's a really good point.

[Luke]

Well, I was texting with our friend Celine this week about Rabbit Box theater, which I know where you went and saw Snacks. And Josh Fadem, by the way, who's.

[Andrew]

A close friend of Kat Solon, by the way, another friend of ours and listener of the show. She heard me talking about Josh, said good friend of mine. And just so you know, it's long a fatum Fadem.

[Luke]

Great. That's really good to know. I know you went to Rabbit Box Theater. We were after. Well, the beginning of the story is Selena and I were texting during the week, and she said, hey, if you guys are looking for somewhere after Livewire to go and grab a drink or whatever, Rabbit Box would be a cool place. And I could tell them to keep the kitchen open a little late or something. And I was like, that sounds really fun. I go, we kind of scatter to the wind afterwards. So I don't know. Like, I didn't. I didn't want them to, like, keep the place open for us and then have us not show up. I didn't really know what the scene was going to be.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

So I was like, that's a really awesome offer, but, you know, we'll kind of play it by ear. But I said, by the way, if you'd like to come to Livewire, you're more than invited. I'll put you on the list and all this. And she said, oh, I'd love to, but I've. I've got other plans. Do you know what her other plans were? She was seeing Die Hard Christmas for the fourth time. Oh, well, Was there that much left unanswered saleed in Die Hard Christmas the third time you saw it?

[Andrew]

Well, I mean, clearly that's a tradition, though. That was probably.

[Luke]

I don't believe in Christmas tradition, Andrew.

[Andrew]

You know me.

[Luke]

I have no traditions. Hey, there's nothing about Christmas that I love to maniacally.in a ritualistic fashion.

[Andrew]

You know what we should do? This is just off the top of the dome here. We should have like a TBTL holiday party over Zoom where we talk about our Christmas traditions and ask listeners to join us and maybe they can share their favorite Christmas or holiday traditions.

[Luke]

I should say, let's say that sounds expensive, Andrew.

[Andrew]

We have the money in this economy, we have the business boys power to pull this off. And I think John Sklaroff is on board. What if we did it in like 10 days on like the 19th?

[Luke]

Okay, you know what? Hold on. Gotta check my Palm Pilot. I'm available. I'm available. December 19th at 5pm West Coast.

[Andrew]

You got that? Would that be 8pm East coast time? I think.

[Luke]

I think it would. And the Central can sort it out.

[Andrew]

That's right. And would you say that people can join Luke, Andrew and John and tens of other listeners as we celebrate the season and share stories of our favorite holiday traditions? Should people come ready with some of you and your family's cherished traditions or feel free to keep your mic muted and just bask in the glow of TBTL friendship? Is that what people should do on Friday the 19th?

[Luke]

Man, this is coming together so quickly. I think this is exactly what people should do on December 19th. They should probably go to tbtl.net though and click on that big button to sign up for it.

[Andrew]

That's what I would do.

[Luke]

So they'll get their free tickets to the TBTL holiday hang.

[Andrew]

Hey, let's do it. Maybe Celine will show up.

[Luke]

She's not seeing Die Hard Christmas for the fifth time.

All right, let's thank some donors. These are people who are supporting TBTL on a monthly or yearly basis, and it's the only way this program can exist. This is 100% listener supported podcasting. And it's thanks to folks like Diane Sibert of Chehalis, Washington. Diane. I can practically see Diane from. From where I am down here in Southern Washington. I'm not far from Chehalis.

[Andrew]

That's where you get into Chehal. Shalis Grams, right?

[Luke]

That's right.

That's what they are. There you go. That's where we got there.

[Andrew]

Glad I introduced him to evidence. But then I can't. I can't because you always. Because it is.

[Luke]

It does look like Chelan.

It's got that ch. I understand why you'd be confused, but that's where Diane is and we are so appreciative. Thanks, Diane. Also thanks To Kristen Corley, who's in Wilmington, North Carolina.

[Andrew]

Thank you, Christy. Wait a second. Kristen.

[Luke]

Kristen?

[Andrew]

Did you say Christy? Yeah, I did I say Christie? No, I think I heard Corley and sorry, I got. I got that messed up. I am guessing. I don't know, maybe Kristen goes by Christie. But my guess is that's one of those names where if somebody. If you say your name is Kristen and somebody calls you Christie, I'll bet you it drives you batty. So I just want Kristen to know that was a mistake, not me trying to be chummy.

[Luke]

But I do think it goes to a larger issue with Kristen's name.

[Andrew]

Oh.

[Luke]

And I've held this for years and I've said it on the show, and I'm not. Just listen, Andrew, I cannot be bought just because Kristen Corley of Wilmington, North Carolina is donating and has been donating for years and is making it possible for this to be our job. I can't sublimate my true truth, which is the Kristens, the Kirsty's and the Kirstens.

[Andrew]

Kirstens.

[Luke]

The Kirstens. It's too close together. I can't. You just. You write names that are too similar to each other, my friend.

[Andrew]

Is Kirsten and Kirsten, are those two different pronunciations of the same name or is it just. Am I just doing something there? Like, is there a. Is there somebody who would say, no, I'm not Kirsten.

[Luke]

Kirsty and Kirsten.

[Andrew]

Let's say it's.

[Luke]

Well, there's Kirsty. There was Kirstie Alley.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but is Kirsten a name and Kirsten a name?

[Luke]

Kirsten is a name, and Kurt and Kirsten is a name.

[Andrew]

And so they would be spelled the same. That would just be a preference then. Right?

[Luke]

Is that a pronunciation? But even that. It's adding a layer of complexity to it.

[Andrew]

But I don't even know if that's accurate.

[Luke]

You don't have a name like Bob and then Burb and then Barb.

[Andrew]

Well, we don't. We do have a Bob and a Barb and actually, well, I blame them too.

[Luke]

You're not getting out Scot free. Bob, Barb.

[Andrew]

I'm naming. When we eventually get a dog, I'm naming them Burb just to make. Actually, that's too close to you.

[Luke]

In honor of me. I love it.

[Andrew]

Too close to your. I was picturing it with an E. I was picturing it with an E.

[Luke]

Anyway, thank you, Kristen. Thanks also to Michael Smith. See, now that's a good, solid American incontrovertible. Name, Mike Smith of University Place, Washington.

[Andrew]

Oh, man. First of all, you just shortened it to Mike. And now we also have a real, like, let's make names great again vibe coming off of you that I'm not 100.

[Luke]

I call him as I see him, Andrew.

[Andrew]

I'm a truth teller, 100% comfortable with.

[Luke]

You know, University Place. I talk about this whenever it comes up. But they were one of the. I think they. I think they even won. They were victorious in the first and only TBTL marching band theme contest. And this was, I have to say, one of the first times that I started to feel like, oh, this is kind of working. TBTL is kind of working. Because what we decided to do. Do you know this story, right? We had Blue Thunder, which was the, like, pep band of the Seahawks, right? So not, you know, it's like, they're like. They get. They're the hype band that's like, big bunch of drums and horns and stuff, and they'll play outside the stadium before the. The game and stuff and get everybody all. All. All gassed up. So Blue Thunder said, we will. We'll come. And we want to do a promotion because we were the. We were the home of the Seahawks at the time.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I guess we. They still are, but, yeah, Cairo Radio.

[Luke]

And so there was like a promotion and we were like, well, what could we do that has to do with Blue Thunder? That fun. But that would be a competition. And so we were like, well, we'll. We'll put it out to the high school bands of Washington of the state of Washington, Western Washington. Anyway, if they record Catch My Disease, if they learn how to play it and then play it and record it, we'll pick our favorite and they'll get. Blue Thunder will visit their school. But, you know, you know, immediately where my mind goes with these kinds of things, no one's going to enter. Like, this is too big of an ask. And we're going to get zero participation, and we're going to be embarrassed in front of Blue Thunder and everyone else. And so kind of, I guess, maybe sort of against my better judgment, we announced the competition. And I'll be gol darned if we didn't get a bunch of actual, like, recordings of Catch My Disease of high schoolers playing Catch My Disease. And it was so gratifying just to listen to think, like, what went into this. The band director had to get the music or figure out the music and, you know, then just make photocopies and distribute it to the members of the band. They had to learn it, and then they had to play it, and someone had to record it and they had to email it to us. And here we are playing it. I was like, this was an idea that actually was a good idea.

[Andrew]

This is totally on me because I did lose focus for the beginning of the story. How does that link into University Place was the University Place High School was.

[Luke]

Either the winning band or in the top three I have. When I see that the word university plays, I think of TBT. I'll catch my disease band competition of 16 years ago, 17 years ago.

[Andrew]

I also realize I sort of get that story confused with the acapella intro that we have, because that was also. Those. Those were not high school students, though, right? Those were. That. Was that an adult?

[Luke]

I don't think they were. I. I don't think they were high schoolers. And that was totally a gen idea. I can't even remember if they reached out to us or we just thought it would be like, we'll just have an acapella group on and have them sing some songs or something. But the magic of it was that I think literally, maybe as an afterthought, I don't know if it was on air or during the commercial break, one of us had the idea, oh, could you cut some liners for us? And they just did. And that's become part of the sonic idea of the show, is them saying tbtl, you know, in acapella. But that was a total afterthought, and.

[Andrew]

People don't usually get to hear it in the clear.

[Luke]

Tb.

[Andrew]

And then years later, when I got my grubby hands into some sort of TBTL archives, I stumbled on, and I didn't know about this one. That was labeled, like, the alternative open.

Tbtl. And I was like, well, that's really charming, too. And so we decided to start using that just on Fridays.

[Luke]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And that was. Boy, that felt like a new development. And that was 10 years ago now, probably.

[Luke]

Anyway, you know, who loves that? Who can't get enough of that?

[Andrew]

That.

[Luke]

Those TBTL acapella intros. Colleen Arnold in Hayward, California.

[Andrew]

Thank you, Colleen. And you're welcome. I guess, actually, I take that back. I hate that. I really. One of my least favorite things in the world is when somebody just, like, does something or send something and just says, you're welcome.

[Luke]

I'm glad that that's kind of gone by the wayside a bit.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't like that.

[Luke]

Mo star is in Mill Creek, Utah.

[Andrew]

Hey, you're our star. Thank you.

[Luke]

You For Mostar. Now that's. Now that's an American name.

[Andrew]

Andrew.

[Luke]

I'm gonna name what names are and are not American. Mo Star.

[Andrew]

So uncomfortable.

[Luke]

It's right up there. Bettina Mackey, who's in Baffle, Washington, thank you, Patina.

[Andrew]

Thank you, Bettina.

[Luke]

Thank you to all of our donors today. We couldn't do TBTL without you.

[Andrew]

Hello and welcome to. To Top Story.

[Luke]

I don't know how closely you've been monitoring this whole thing, but Netflix is poised, I guess, to. To acquire Warner Brothers. And this is seen as a big story for a couple of reasons. The thing that kind of jumped out to me, well, it's just further media consolidation, but it's also this question of, like, Warner Brothers is considered one of the last kind of big independent film studios. They make movies with the intention of. Of at least a lot of those movies going into the theater. And if you think about Netflix, they are not particularly incentivized for movies to go into movie theaters. They're kind of a watch it at home kind of deal. And the thought is if. If Netflix is able to pull this off, we are just gonna see fewer and fewer movies going out to the theaters. And eventually, I mean, I can't imagine a world in which there are no movie theaters because. But we just won't have. My guess would be the. The Regals of the world, the AMCs, the lows, the heartbreaks. Feel like this, all of that stuff could really go away. What you'd probably be left with, actually, is the kind of movie theaters that I tend to go to anyway. An indie movie theater that wants to just keep showing me Wes Anderson movies or, you know, like.

[Andrew]

But I do. There's going to. There's got to be. If the AMCs and regals, et cetera, kind of lose their power, there's going to be a downstream effect because, like, the whole. The whole model of. Of acquiring those movies for the small theaters would be hurt. You know what I mean? The cost of acquiring a movie for the small theaters, I think that. I think that it would be like the whole ecosystem could probably.

[Luke]

Exactly. The whole distribution network just changes. And so it's like. Yeah, I mean, which is, you know, obviously really bums me out as a thought. Now riding in to save the day. Question mark. Is my boss a question mark? David Ellison, who's in charge of. Well, was in charge of Skydance, the movie studio that was making the Mission Impossible movies and the like, who then bought Paramount Global, who I work for, and they are big mad about this. They do not want this deal to go through. And so they are trying to directly appeal to the shareholders of Warner Brothers to say, we will. It's like a. Something out of.

[Andrew]

Mr.

[Luke]

It's something. It's a Wonderful Life. Like, we'll give you.

[Andrew]

You.

[Luke]

We'll give you 10% over what Potter's offering. And they're trying to just directly acquire the stock in the company so that they can then do what they want with it by just. By basically overpaying for the stock directly to the stockholders.

[Andrew]

It's basically a Robin Colcord. I don't know if you get that reference, but if Genevieve were in here, if she can.

[Luke]

Now, is that a Cheers reference?

[Andrew]

It absolutely is. When I think of a hostile takeover, I think of Cheers because I was a kid and I'm like, what is a hostile takeover? But I'm pretty sure that the big, you know, the deep pocketed money man, Robin Colcord, whom. Whom Kirsty Alley had a huge crush on. So it's all coming together.

[Luke]

Because he was British, right? Didn't he have a British accent?

[Andrew]

You know, did he have a British accent or a rich accent? Yeah, I think he was British.

[Luke]

British and rich.

[Andrew]

I couldn't remember who, but yeah, no, I think he did have a British accent. But I mean, listen, I kind of. I don't know, we could. Maybe I should just spoof on Cheers and not get too deep in the story because even the Paramount thing is like. Like, it's so gross. Like, first of all, I mean, just the consolidation is terrible and everything else that's going on with Paramount right now and the fact that this hostile takeover also involves some capital from Kushner's, you know, whatever you call investment company or whatever, like, and it's all tied up and into, like, what will make the White House happy, which should never be the case. And there was a.

[Luke]

That's the thing.

[Andrew]

It's just like the, the potential of theaters going away is terrible. But I don't trust any of these companies to really, like, care about anything other than squeezing the last bits of money out of whatever deal it is. I mean, we're just living in an age that is just like. It's almost literally sickening to me. You know, we talked about the Joann fabrics and just, like, how.

[Luke]

I think it's literally random. Personally.

[Andrew]

I know, I know that I said literally. I said that on the KOW Live radio show and. And about something else, literally, using literally, potentially as figuratively. But I mean, in this case, like, I kind of get a stomachache about this stuff these days. Like I. Yeah, it's, it's really, really bothering me. There was a quote from one of the players in here. I think somebody representing the Paramount side of this and they're starting to, they're.

[Luke]

Kind of my side of it.

[Andrew]

They're trying to make an argument and I don't even in the moment of me reading this quote, I didn't quite understand.

[Luke]

I think you're probably a David Ellison press release on it, right?

[Andrew]

I don't know if this was the press release maybe, but there was somebody on the Paramount side and I don't think it was Ellison directly, but basically making some sort of comparison to like, well, if Coke and Pepsi converged. But you were using the argument that that's not monopolistic because Budweiser is still available. That was somebody kind of trying to take down the Netflix side of things. And I didn't quite understand it and I DW on it a little bit trying to figure it out. But my point of that, and you can explain it in a second if you want, but I just want to say my point, which is I was thinking about that quote, trying to untangle it, but then it occurred to me, I don't care if Pepsi and Coke combine and they're using this as an example. It's like, oh, I'm going to get my sweet water from the same company. Like my sugar water. Like that is, this is like media is so much more important than that. Even films or whatever we're talking about. We're just living in an era where.

We'Re so fractionalized based on like not agreeing what truth is and what, what people are choosing to consume and then what these companies are choosing for us to consume under the guise of unlimited options which are very limited. If you actually look at the scope of media and these people fighting over this, these billionaires, billionaires with like gross ties to gross people are like, like fighting over this stuff. And it's so much more important than Coke and Pepsi to me. And it's just, it's so dispiriting.

[Luke]

Yeah. And not that this matters, but I think that the, the, well, the argument that Netflix is trying to make to say that this isn't sort of anti competitive or monopolistic. If we as Netflix, that is one of the hugest content creators now acquire one of the other hugest content creators is because their argument is you got to account Amazon, you've got to account for YouTube, there's a lot of content being created. And it's not just a TV world or a film studio world anymore. It's a digital world and all these other things. And I guess this was an argument that like Google made recently, somewhat successfully in their antitrust case, which is just kind of like we need to rethink about. Well, because when we say like, oh, you can't own all of the movie studios or you can't own all the television, you can't own all the content and all the places that make content, but they're like, yeah, but there's lots of places and we need to think about this differently was an argument that they're trying to make. But to your larger point, yeah, it is, it is. There's no way it's a good thing. You know, there's no way that it is going to improve people's experiences. It's. There's no way it's going to create more diversity and more interesting projects. It's, you know, and I mean, I've been really grappling with this lately, just thinking about the media, I guess, in general and how it's just, just to me, and our attention spans have now been just like, I hope not permanently destroyed, but certainly for the time being, my attention span feels like it's been pretty, pretty beat up. And I feel like, you know, to me it really comes down to a question of, like, format. Like, is the, is long format anything kind of over or on its way to being over? Like, are. Will movies someday be something that is that we don't have the attention span to watch an hour and a half long movie? And, and by the way, people are always going to make stuff. There's always going to be creative, you know, projects going on. But is it just going to be a quibi? Now? We always roast quibi, but I mean, honestly, I don't know. I think eight minutes is about all I have in me these days.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think that a certain kind of art form or long form, art form is going to totally go away. But the sticky wicket with it is you could sort of say, let's just say that something was affecting the publishing industry and we're having this conversation about books, literature, whatever, and I would usually in that moment say, listen, whether or not there's money in it, there's always going to be people walking around with books in them that they need to get out, whether they're scratching that out on paper with pen.

Or however they're writing it and then publishing it. And if they're self publishing it, people just need to get art out of themselves when it's in them. It's the creative process. The problem with this is you can't just make a movie by yourself. I mean, you can, but it's probably not going to be very good. You know, like. And so because you have. It's probably bloated in some sectors and, you know, we. I don't want to kind of get into judging whether or not, like, Mission Impossible Part seven, Part one, or whatever they did.

[Luke]

You know, David Ellison does his own hostile takeover.

[Andrew]

I just make that a show title. Like, you know what I mean? Like, people enjoy what they enjoy. And then there are small indie movies, and I don't even want to pick them against each other, but either way, you still need. You still need a big network to make, produce, and distribute and promote a movie. I was just. Did you happen to read. I don't know why you would have, but Lucy Liu has a new movie coming out, and I just stumbled on this. I don't know, I'm scrolling and then I click on a link. I think it was in Vanity Fair. They do an interview with her. Didn't even occur to me. This is such a tangent. Lucy Liu has never been the lead role in a movie. Movie before. She's been in here.

[Kathleen]

That.

[Andrew]

Yeah, right.

[Luke]

Charlie Angel.

[Andrew]

She was a Charlie Angel. But that, of course, you know, that's. There's three, you know, sharing the spotlight or whatever. And now she has had this project that she'd been working on for a long, long time where she is playing the lead. Sounds like a very. It's what my friend used to call a shooting star movie because Netflix would indicate sad stories with a shooting star. I mean, this sounds. Oh, really? It sounds like a hundred shooting stars. It's like a. It's a. It's a woman who I think is living in America, but has come over from China and she's got cancer and is trying to take care of her child before she dies or something. It's just like. It sounds like a devastating movie. I hope it's good. I don't know. I haven't read any reviews of it. But my point of it is she was just saying that, like, she can't even. She's like, she's thanking the interviewer for interviewing her and basically saying, like, I just can't get promotion for this. Like, nobody will promote it. And then, like, the. The idea of promoting Rosemary. Yeah, yeah, it's Rosemary. Are you reading the description?

[Luke]

How close Was I inspired by a harrowing true story? Lucy Liu transforms in a riveting career, redefining performance as an ailing woman who takes drastic measures to protect her troubled teenage son. You got a lot of that, right?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. And I think the son might be autistic or something along those lines as well. So anyway, it just deals with, you know, kind of a very. Some serious topic matters in a serious moment in this particular woman. But all of that is to say it was just like this little. I'm just reading this article and it's popping in my head right now randomly. I sort of regret bringing this up, but the point is, it's just kind of like this isn't something where it's like, well, either way, I'm just going to make this happen. I'm going to write my great novel and I'm going to put it in a suitcase. And whether or not anybody ever sees it, like, it's just a different kind of art that takes, at least in this day and age, so many people just to get it made, let alone to present it to the world.

[Luke]

Well, speaking of those kinds of projects, although I guess you could say, ironically, I did watch this on Netflix, but there is this movie, Train Dreams, that is on Netflix right now. It was also in the theater for two weeks. I think that they're trying to do that Oscar thing with it. My dad and I watch it on Sunday night. It is phenomenal. It is really beautiful. And of course, I've been on this weird Dennis Johnson kick lately. Jesus, Son.

He was a writer who went through the Iowa Writers Program, and it's just kind of famously associated with that program. He wrote a book called Jesus. He was a short story writer. But I was reading a review of a new biography of him in the Times, and then I'm watching this Train Dreams movie, and I'm like, God, this is so good. It's basically the story of this guy who's living in the west in the late 1800s, early 1900s, helping build the railroad and just kind of what life was like. I mean, it's a very quiet film, but the writing is really interesting and the just, it's a. It's a beautiful film. And I was like, God, where did this come from? And then it's like based on the story by Dennis Johnson. I was like, oh, that would make sense. It wasn't a story of his I was familiar with. But anyway, it's a beautiful film with almost no financial upside that I could see who had, like, you know, like I. I do think it's getting some buzz here in the Pacific Northwest because it's all shot out here. It's all shot in the woods. It was, you know what was kind of crazy was watching it with my dad because.

For a lot of the movie, he's also on these logging crews and like, he's out in the Pacific Northwest cutting down trees, which was a job my dad had. He was. My dad was a tree planter and a tree thinner, which is to say a logger. I mean, they weren't like clear cut cutting, but like, my dad was living in like canvas tents and cutting down trees in the woods in the Pacific Northwest.

[Andrew]

And now we're one of those saws that he takes one side and somebody else takes the other side and they go back and forth.

[Luke]

They sure did.

[Andrew]

That's amazing.

[Luke]

His. Yeah, he was working with Paul Bunyan, giant ax.

[Andrew]

Did they get there via one of those train cars you have to crank up and down, up and down, up and down.

[Luke]

Yeah, you know, was. Yeah, there was a little time in between, but I kept saying that my dad was like, is this crazy for you to watch this? I mean, it'd be like me watching a movie about podcasts, casting. Like a hundred years ago, guy was, you know, or something, and I was. It was so funny because I was like, dad, this is so like similar to your experience. He was like, I don't know. I mean, I was only out there for two years. I was like, if I lived in the woods for two years cutting down trees, you would never hear the end of it ever. Never ever, ever. It would be the only thing I would talk about. And then if I saw a movie where guys were doing that essentially granted, with older tools, I would be. Be like, like, he didn't say anything during the movie. I would have been like a Chatty Cathy. I would have been like, well, that wasn't how it was when we were out there when we used to do this. I mean, I would have been insufferable to watch this film with my dad because he's a chill guy. Was just like watching it like, oh, it's a good movie.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Enjoying it. It's a good movie.

[Andrew]

I was watching something recently where the verisimilitude and it must have had to do with my industry. And it just, it shouldn't bother me so much. Like, I'm not as picky as you are about, I think. Or it's just maybe different things that sort of trigger us, but little things that. Where you see somebody Doing something in a radio studio, and it's like, that doesn't make sense. Oh, I remember seeing a sketch one time. I think it was Mr. Show or something along those lines. And it's in the studio and you have, like, there's some producers, classic, like, kind of producer behind glass, I want to say, behind a big radio board or a big, you know, mixing board of some sort. And there's some sort of talent like that. They're directing and. And they show the back of the board and there's no cables coming out of it, and it's just like a quick shot. I'm just like, oh, come on, guys, we got to do better than that. And I'm sorry to keep bringing this up. I was behind on Pluribus, and so I caught up on it last night. I actually wasn't even 100% sure I was going to. With more time passing, I think I'm.

[Luke]

In that mode myself.

[Andrew]

You're, like, on the fence teetering on.

[Luke]

Re engaging or not.

[Andrew]

You know, I was texting with our friend Cat Solon, who has kind of has gone on, I think, sort of a similar journey with that show that I have, that just loved the first episode so much and then felt like episode two suffered a bit. But anyway, I was talking with her, and she asked where I was on it, and so I said, I don't know, I might give up or I might keep going. And she said, for what it's worth, I think it gets better in the last two episodes. So I did sit down and watch them last night, and I did enjoy them. I'm glad I'm back in the world. But let me see if I can describe this to you. And, I mean, I. I don't think this is. You'd have to be very, very sensitive to spoilers for this to be considered a spoiler. But there is a time where she sits down to record a video on kind of a cla. Not on her phone, but more on a classic kind of camcorder. But a camcorder that takes, like, an SD card or something.

[Luke]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And so she sets it up on a tripod, and she sits down on a couch, and she starts talking to the camera. But before she's talking to the camera. You know, these kinds of cameras, Luke, they have the little window that flaps out, and that's your viewer screen. It's a digital viewer screen, and you can adjust it and you can flip it over. And so she's sitting down and almost like, flipping it over. Back in the day, we didn't call it selfie mode, but it's almost like selfie mode. She can flip that thing over, sit down on the couch, and then align herself right in the middle of the couch and she can see. Right. But once she adjusts herself, she flips that viewfinder back the other way way and then she starts recording. And there's literally no reason for her to do that. If you were recording this thing, you would have that viewfinder flipped and you would be watching yourself as you recorded this thing. The only reason they flipped it the other way was because whoever was shooting it in this Vince Gilligan style knew that it would be a cool effect to be able to like, kind of position the TV cameras in a way that you're both seeing her and her captured on camera in a way that was a little bit more arty. But there is no reason anybody would have flipped this viewfinder back away so that she would have seen herself so she could see her. She would have kept it so she could have seen herself. And it's one of those things. And I've saw, like, I probably clocked like five of those things across like two episodes of that show yesterday. And I am enjoying it. And the thing I enjoy about the show is it is eye candy, man. It is so beautiful to look at that show the way. I mean, the shots are set up so impeccably. But it's also kind of like, boy, they really. Do they. Why would this person in 2025 even have. Have a camcorder? Why wouldn't she? Well, I guess she couldn't do it on a phone because she needs some sort of physical media. Right. I don't know. Does the Internet work in Pluribus?

[Luke]

Great question.

[Andrew]

Right, like, so there's a talk of zoom calls. I know that they mentioned zoom calls in one episode of Pluribus. So there must be Internet for that. Why does she need to do this on physical media? And I feel like it's just kind of like there are certain things that they're just throwing in there just for storytelling. The way that you might still have an answering machine message on somebody's desk in a movie. Just because it's a good way to like kind of fast forward the plot. If somebody can leave somebody a voicemail.

[Luke]

This isn't quite that. But last night. So my dad and I are now watching Shetland, which is one of his. One of those British shows that he pirates. Because it's just coming out in England right now. Yeah.

[Andrew]

New season.

[Luke]

It's actually a pretty good show for being a, you know, a kind of. A procedural kind of crime show. But they. I just noticed this one scene. It's. It's. I mean, you want to talk about beautiful. It's, you know, it's. It's in Scotland, I guess, is where it's set in it, but it's really far up there. It's like almost like Sweden, like across the water from Sweden. Everyone's always. Or Norway. Everyone's always going to Bergen.

[Andrew]

Norway.

[Luke]

That's like the big hangout. But they had this, like, classic scene where there's like three or four detectives or, like, they're talking or something, but they're outside and you know, outside the house where, like, the murders got down. And the physicality, like the main detective, the main. She's a di, Detective inspector. She's, like, talking to. So, like, let's just say, Andrew, I'm. I'm facing you. I'm facing the camera right now, and I'd be talking to you like this. But instead she's just asking the questions like this.

[Andrew]

She's turning her shoulder kind of to the person she's talking to and talking over her shoulder.

[Luke]

There's, like another detective right here who's standing.

[Andrew]

Normally, she's just.

[Luke]

Just like. And she's delivering her lines like this to the cat, to the camera, to the person. And it's like the most unnatural way. It is a. It is a way that no one would ever voluntarily stand to address another person for any reason, but it's purely because the cinematographer and the director were like, it'll be a cool shot because.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Why is it. I'm sorry I cut you off. That I want to know, like, what. What is the cooler shot? Is it. It's.

[Luke]

I think it has to do with some variations. So you have three detectives.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke]

You have this one, Detective San Andy, you have the di, and then you have this other detective, Tosh. And if they were just standing shoulder to shoulder, the three of them, it'd just be kind of an uninteresting shot.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Luke]

So they posed one of them in the, like, weirdest. Like. Like 90 degree, like, body is facing 90 degrees from the person they're talking to when they're just talking like this, like. And, like, for some reason, it just hit me last time I was like, oh, that's. That is. I would have been so annoyed if I was the actor who had to deliver the lines that way because I just been like, this is not how I would stand. But the director is like, no, it'll look better. I promise you.

[Andrew]

You can hear the conversation. You're probably imagining the conversation between the actor and the director before the actor decides, fine, I won't die on this hill.

[Luke]

It's some of the only times I really try to not get too testy on. On CBS shoots. But the. The one thing that will sometimes. Sometimes caused me to be a little bit annoyed. And again, I try not to show it, but it has to do with body positioning because. And again, so what. Here's what always happens. The producer or the camera person wants you standing in a different position, but they lack the language to explain to you what the different position is. So you're standing there interviewing, or you're about to interview someone. They're like, can you just scoot over? And you're like, okay, this way. And then you scoot over. They're like, no, no, the other way. And then you go the other way. They're like, no, no, actually further away from me. You mean back? Should I scoot back? Yeah, but, but. But just to the. To the camera. I'm scooting away from you, back towards the camera, like. And then the more confused me and the person who's being interviewed are, the more that the language eludes the person trying to tell us. And then they always have to come over and just physically kind of position you. I heard somebody say the other day that actors are basically babies or they're children.

[Andrew]

Was it Alfred Hitchcock?

[Luke]

Probably.

[Andrew]

That's how he talked about his evening.

[Luke]

My Alfred Hitchcock impression.

[Andrew]

Wasn't he notoriously like, he just treated his actors like chattel? Just like he. Because I think at one point, an actor. I think there's a famous quote of an actor saying, what's my motivation? He said, your paycheck.

[Luke]

That's pretty droll.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

I think this was a person who maybe had become a director because they said they'd actually. They. For them, they felt like acting was so infantilizing because basically. And I was like, yeah, kind of. Because if you're the actor, I'm, you know, and I'm not an actor. But let's just say even in the. When I'm doing my little TV job, you are told where to stand, and you're just waiting, and then you're told that it's time to say your thing, and then you're told to stop saying your thing. You have. You have some creative control, I guess, in how you deliver that line or say those things or ask those questions. Questions. But you are really, like. You are infantilized in A way you're. Particularly if it's a big movie. Think about it. You're brought onto the set that you're. You're just waiting until they bring you out and then they place you somewhere and then they tell you go. And then you do it and then they tell you stop. And then they send you back to wherever you came from until it's time to bring you back out again. And you.

[Andrew]

And you understand that there's a script. There are words that you say. I'm. I'm not actually a wizard. Wizard myself.

[Luke]

Will there be the night of the play?

[Andrew]

What's that?

[Luke]

Will there be scripts the night of the play? No, there'll be no script on the night of the play. There will be no scripts.

[Andrew]

There will be no scripts.

[Luke]

You know what's funny, Andrew the DI D. I called her. That's her name. She's Ricky Gervais's buddy in Extras. That's who.

[Andrew]

Interesting. Yeah, I was. I was butchering a scene. Was that from Extras, I believe.

[Luke]

I don't know. Or that. Or that could have been. Listen, at some point Ricky Gervais made Extras and at another point he made the one with Warwick Davis. And I can constantly mix up the.

[Andrew]

Scenes of which is which.

[Luke]

But did you watch any of Extras? Do you remember him? And he had sort of a. He had like a platonic female friend who was often on these shoots with him.

[Andrew]

I have only seen clips and like, people have sent me stuff that we've used for tv. There was a famous David Bowie scene that we played from Extras, but I've never sat down and watched watch an episode.

[Luke]

She's great in it. She's so funny. And it's kind of like a sort of a female Ricky Gervais. They're both just kind of hopeless. But then. So it's kind of fun to get to see her actually as the new star of this show.

[Andrew]

That's great. Yeah. And also, by the way, you kind of also had me at the idea that it's just beautiful like the. The. I don't watch hardly any of those types of shows, but I watch what I think might be considered kind of new, near the cream of the crop of those, which was Broad Church, what it was that a decade ago, or.

[Luke]

Whatever that is considered elite.

[Andrew]

I just wanted to live in that world. I mean, not with the dark murder sicko ness, but just like you just. I watched season three of that, which I remember season three being, at least to my taste at that time, quite a step down from season one. Like, season three was like, what am I even watching here? It was like, I don't care. I just want to see this blood bluff. I just want. I don't want this bluff to leave my left.

[Luke]

You would honestly, like, I mean, it would be kind of fun if we were both watching Shetland and like, no pressure, but you should check it out, whatever. The latest season. I know you have your ways. The latest season of Shetland because, yeah, it's just this green, you know, I guess Ireland is the Emerald Isle, but it's just these unbelievable. It's a tiny, teeny, tiny town. So, you know, and it's just farmhouses and just windswept, you know, meadows leading down to freezing, you know, Atlantic waters or whatever. I mean, it's just a real. It definitely looks like the kind of place that I would decide I need to move so that I can write a book. But then I would move there and then I would just look at TikTok all day.

[Andrew]

You would buy a bunch of scarves, A bunch of beautiful scarves.

[Luke]

Step one, buy scarves. Step two, write the great American novel.

[Andrew]

Because not in America, though. Here I go once again with the email. Every week I hope that it's from a female. Oh, man, it's not from a female.

[Luke]

All right. Emails or vmails before I turn into a popsicle. What the listeners don't know, Andrew, is that we were disconnected a little earlier in the show and I thought, oh, no, it's stormy and the Internet is down. And no, I had just thrown a breaker here in the Madrona Hill studio because I tried to plug in too many heaters.

[Andrew]

Now, did you? We got into this a little bit off air. You said that what happened was you had moved a heater from one outlet to another, which put it on a circuit that then it was cable management, Andrew. So did you not plug in. You didn't re. Plug it into the old outlet after you threw the breaker? No.

[Luke]

By the time I figured out what was going on, we had already been delayed. I just wanted to get back to it. But yeah, basically what happened was I have this little portable heater that sits right next to me that heats me up and then I've got. Got a larger kind of. What I need to do is just get this mini split put in at some point. But I've been having bad luck with those lately.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Luke]

And so.

The other day, or I guess it would have been yesterday, I realized, oh, why do I have this heater that's next to me plugged in? But in this janky way, so that the cord is, like, all the way across kind of the room, and it's unsightly. And I thought, well, there's a power outlet right here where I do the show. Why wouldn't I just plug this heater in in a closer location, make everything a little tidier? And the reason is. And I remembered. Oh, yeah, because it blows the circuit. It trips the breaker if I'm trying to run that heater over in this part of the studio. So I am.

[Andrew]

Do you know why that is? It sounds like I'm putting you on the spot here. But I am curious about it, because one of the nice things of you totally renovating that thing and basically kind of rebuilding it, you know, from. You know what I mean, you took a garage, but, I mean, essentially you kind of rebuilt it. But so you guys must. All the electric must be new. And one of the beauties of a project like that is you get to decide where everything is. Right. Is there any reason why that particular. Because it's not like the. The circuit that you plug this heater into is powering a refrigerator or anything like that. Right. That's kind of my question.

[Luke]

I think these heaters, Even though they're 110, I think they draw a lot. And I think what it is, is. So I have two lights going.

[Andrew]

Two lights.

[Luke]

I have the. I have two. Two lights going. I've got, you know, the computer, which doesn't seem like a huge draw. I guess that's kind of it over.

[Andrew]

The corner Internet, because that's the big one.

[Luke]

Oh, yeah. That's where the modem is plugged in.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So that's important.

[Luke]

So, yeah, we did. We wired all of this. And it's not that there isn't enough capacity in here, I guess it's just that this little area is all on its. It's on the same breaker. It's called studio. And I guess plugging in this little heater is just asking too much of that one breaker. Like when I plug in it in where I had it previously in the unsightly area, that's totally fine. So we have a lot. In fact, I have separate power run to the studio. I have two. I get two power bills every month, not to brag. And one is for the studio, and one is for the house. So they're on separate lines, and they have separate, you know, boxes and stuff. Because someday, you know, somebody could live in here potentially. This is an Abu as well.

[Andrew]

They could have their own electric.

[Luke]

Yeah, we wanted it to Be set up for that. But anyway, yeah, all that is to say what I like to do is tell you about a 20 minute story about how cold I am and why we need to be quick about the voicemails. Because I'm cold. Yes, sorry. But then delay my time in here by 20 minutes.

[Andrew]

Well, I did have questions about that. And again, we're in the late stage of the show, so.

[Luke]

We're in late stage.

[Andrew]

TV talisman. We really are.

[Luke]

Well, you know where we are, Andrew.

[Andrew]

El Robo the Badlands.

[Luke]

We're in the Badlands, baby.

[Andrew]

BE So I know we need to move on and play this voicemail.

But.

Would you say that that particular circuit is at its limit?

[Luke]

You know what, Andrew? I don't want to talk about it because that makes me sad that there's no more chair companies to watch.

[Andrew]

It really is making me sad, man.

[Luke]

You know, I was really enjoying that schedule.

[Andrew]

I and I'm going to go back. Somebody or our friend Barry texted us and was asking about an episode. Cause I think he's maybe still catching up and is halfway through the season. And there's just like one episode that I love that show but there was episode five right in the kind of near the middle of the season that just really struck me as just like that show hitting on all cylinders. And Barry made I think a good observation. It has sort of that sort of cocaine y rhythm of uncut gems or even, maybe even bird. Do you remember Birdman? Remember the movie Birdman with Michael Keaton.

[Luke]

And they were that propulsive drum soundtrack.

[Andrew]

That episode sort of has that a little bit and I'm like, I think I'm gonna go back and watch that episode again. And I've already watched it twice, so. All right, this voicemail I'm about to play for you, I have not listened to it. It came in this morning at 6:00am well, our time.

[Kathleen]

Hello, it's Kathleen in Bloomington, Oklahoma. MSP Airport again. I really should be going into work. Capitalism is stupid. I just had to call. I know you just played one of.

[Andrew]

My voicemails, but I hate to say this, I, you know, I do remember getting a voicemail from Kathleen in Bloomington because it is the home of the airport. But I can't remember what the topic was last time. So, you know, not that you're not memorable, but also don't tell on yourself. You know, you can, you can just leave us as many voicemails as you want.

[Kathleen]

Absolutely, Andrew. I started listening. I'm a relatively new Listener, started in 2020, so you know just five years.

I started listening back to the entire archive after listening to the 4000 show and just Luke. I was in here listening to Luke talk about the show and.

Because when I first started listening in 2020, I did start to go back to the archives because I like to be a completist, but I was. It was too confusing. But once. Once I was about four years in, I went back and it's been very lovely. But why I called is I was.

[Luke]

Did I cry on the fourth? I must have cried on the 4,000th show. Is that what the listener, the caller is referencing?

[Andrew]

I don't know.

[Luke]

I kind of.

[Andrew]

I lost the thread a little bit there. I have a feeling that I probably on stage. I don't remember you crying. Oh, did you cry on stage A little bit?

[Luke]

I probably cried, you know, just probably out of appreciation and possibly alcohol intake.

[Andrew]

We did have that nice gin.

[Luke]

Yeah, I feel like we were drinking that gin upstairs at Neptune before the show.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't remember you crying, but it sounds about right. Were there trees around? You were probably thinking about your crying tree.

[Luke]

Too many trees.

[Andrew]

Too many crying trees.

[Kathleen]

To Monday's episode.

[Andrew]

Okay, so I think what Kathleen is saying here now is.

That referring back to just yesterday's episode, because today is Tuesday.

[Kathleen]

I was listening to Monday's episode December 8th, and you answered a question that I had had because I just got to the point where Andrew started to be regularly on the show back in 2012, from 1000 episode or so in, and I was wondering why you weren't.

[Andrew]

Saying.

[Kathleen]

Good luck to all. And you answered that today. Crazy how often.

I listen to the archives at night and then try to keep up during the day. And how often there are crazy coincidences of stuff you were talking about back in the aughts and then now in the2020s. So it's a fascinating.

Parallel universe that I've really enjoyed. Spotify says that the top 1% of listeners.

[Luke]

Is this the listener that has 44,000. I'm not sure minutes in their wrapped. I saw somebody. I think this has got to be that same person. There was the.

[Andrew]

The.

[Luke]

The tbtl, like Instagram account or whatever. Like kind of was reposting some Spotify wrapped from people and there was somebody who had 44,000 members minutes, which I was like, I don't think we made 44,000 minutes. But if you're going back and listening to the archives, you could definitely do that.

[Andrew]

Yes. Yes.

[Luke]

Incredible. Also, that's so generous to say that there are all these coincidences. Another Way to look at it is we are talking about the same shit day in and day out over the course of decades now. And I'll go with.

[Andrew]

It's a Mobius strip of pieces. Podcasting is what it is.

[Luke]

I'll go with, wow, isn't that crazy that they were talking about that thing 12 years ago and they were talking about it on Monday?

[Andrew]

Yeah. Right.

[Luke]

Now do you remember? See, Andrew, I also, I'll be honest with you, I had forgotten that there was a period of time where you. Which, by the way, makes perfect sense. Like, I understand why you were, like, kind of didn't want to hermit crab into that little. That little part of the show where Jen would always say, you know, and good luck to all. But was it like, after you had actually been on the show longer than Jen was, what was. I wonder what the thing was that tipped you over into feeling comfortable to say that.

[Andrew]

I can't remember. I think you wanted me to. I think the listeners wanted me to.

[Luke]

I mean, do you recall the fact that the listeners. I kept telling listeners to call you New Mommy? Yeah, they were a little resistant to that, I think.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

That complicated thing.

[Andrew]

And you. And a lot of people don't remember this. Maybe Kathleen does because she was just listening to the archives. You and I, when I first on the show, you would. You and I would call each other mom and dad the way my grandparents called themselves mom and dad.

[Luke]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And I thought that was pretty endearing, but it made some people kind of uncomfortable.

[Luke]

It didn't sound on the podcast the way that we thought it sounded until I had to hear it later. It was like when we. When we had the audio drop of my mom saying, this is Luke's mom, Susie, coming tonight on tbtl. And somebody said, you know, you could kind of take that a couple of different ways.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it took you like a. You use that for, like a decade or something before you kind of realized that.

[Luke]

Too long.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Luke]

But then once. Once I heard about the alternative interpretation, it was immediately 86, because that was.

[Andrew]

One of the earliest drops. Right. That was from way back in the radio days. So if you put that at 2008 or 2009, probably 2008. And I feel like you didn't stop using until, like, 2017 or 2018 or something. But I don't remember exactly what pushed me over the edge of finally saying, okay, I'll say it. I feel, like, secure enough here. But it was a very insecure.

Transition for me. I'm trying to think if I have ever felt secure but, like, I do remember, like, when I first started on tbtl, it was also an era when I was on Facebook a lot. Right. And like, and the Stens community was very, very vibrant. And now they've gone full underground. I don't know how you can find the Stens community. I think you have to know a guy. I know you have to literally go into some abandoned warehouse late at night where there's a big red ball, and then I think maybe somebody will meet you there in the men's room and tell you how you can find the Stents page. But back then, there was a lot of public discourse about whether or not I belonged on tbtl. And I'm not. Oh, you don't remember that? I am not in any way butthurt about that. That's not a story that I bring up because it's still stings or anything like that. But there were plenty of stuff people who were saying in their community, which I had eyes on, like, this sucks. Like, we miss Jen. Like, and. And so. And you know, and then there would be tons of nice people saying, I'm loving this. This is great. You know, Andrew's great, or whatever. But it was just a period where it was hard not to feel like an interloper. And again, I was a fan of the show. As a listener of the show, I'm a huge fan of Jen. You know what I mean? So that was a big part of it too. Like I, you know, stepping into. Into. Not that I don't like to think of it, and I don't think you were setting it up like I was stepping into her shoes, but it would be hard to, you know, when one voice goes away and another regular voice enters the chat, as they say, it's kind of hard not to make those comparisons. So, yeah, I just did not want to overstep or do anything that felt like I was overstepping.

[Luke]

Yeah, I mean, I either I either I saw those comments and I've just kind of memory. Hold it. Or more like likely even by then, I was not looking at the Facebook page very frequently because my experience as the co host with you was like, literally, I remember the first day that you came down to my house, and I think it was maybe I don't remember how we were talking about it, but wasn't it sort of something like, well, hey, do you want to do this for a couple of weeks or something?

[Andrew]

It was supposed to be three. It wasn't for a couple of weeks. It was going to be three days a week.

[Luke]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And I just remember, literally, let's do it every day.

[Luke]

The first day, I was like. Within the first five minutes, I was like, oh, this is great. Like, I. So my personal feeling of it was like, oh, this is a slam dunk. Like, this is, like, gonna be fine. And so. So I guess I feel like I was not clocking any listeners who were still kind of pining, which, you're right, is a completely natural thing when there's one kind of thing going on and then there's a, you know, a change. Change. But I'm also, you know, another thing that's. That's, I guess, kind of cool is how many people stuck around. Because, I mean, we've. We've got, you know, with the addition of a few newcomers, a few rookies in the last few years, I mean, we're mostly working with the same group of people that started on the radio show. So it's cool that they've stayed with us and stuff. But anyway, I'm sorry if that was stressful for you, Andrew. I don't. I don't think I was really clocking that very much. I was just like, cool. Andrew's on the show now. This is working out great. I don't have to do this by myself anymore, because that was the other thing. Like, I was. I was kind of a solo practitioner there for a while, and that was some dark days. There's some days that this show almost came to an end. So I was. You were. You were like a lifeline to me. I was so stoked to have you here that basically, I'm gonna beat up anybody who said anything mean about you.

[Andrew]

Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, I think that, you know, I mean, a transition like that, that is always. People.

Cherish. People have a personal relationship with shows like this. Not just our show, but shows like this. And I know that because I have. I mean, listen, I came up yesterday in our sprawling conversation about media consumption. I know I reference it a lot, but I developed quite the parasocial relationship with the LeBatard show, which is why I kind of continued to listen to it even after it sort of. The bloom was off the roads for me because they kept changing. The people I loved kept leaving. And eventually I was kinda like, well, it's probably not the show for me anymore. And I tried not to. You know, one thing that I'm pretty proud of is, like, I've never, like, I don't think. I don't think. But I don't think I've ever, like, kind of publicly Gone on, like, their Reddit, where a lot of people complain about, like, this or that or this or that, and just been like, the show sucks without Billy. You know, like, I'll read a lot of, like, comments like that, but, like, I do understand sometimes when people write into our show and they say something like, I've made the decision to stop listening to tbt Be like, well, that's a weird email to write because I casually made the decision to stop consuming all kinds of media in my life. I've never written a letter to the host or actors of those projects, but it is. While it can be kind of hurtful or irritating in the moment, it really is a sign of. I have grown to love this show in a way that goes beyond just media consumption.

[Luke]

And it's why people get so upset with us when we say we don't like something that's something that they really like, because it doesn't just feel. Feel like somebody on the radio or somebody on a TV show said they don't like a thing that you like. It's like, oh, a friend of mine who. Who I'm really close to is saying something I like isn't good, and it really, you know, it really hurts people's feelings. And I try to. Try to remember that. That, like, the more intense the reaction is to stuff the. You know, it's. It's a sign that people feel close to us and that they care a lot about the show and about our opinions on things, which is a good problem to. To have coming from. I didn't know if any marching bands were going to actually record our song to. To, like, we've, you know, 17 years later, here we are, and. And we're lucky enough to have people who take what we say very seriously.

[Andrew]

Yeah, absolutely. And we have two acapella opens to choose from.

[Luke]

Yeah, we do.

[Andrew]

How many acapella opens do other podcasts have to choose from?

[Luke]

Barely one, maybe zero. They don't have. If they're lucky, they don't have two.

[Andrew]

A cappellas to rub together. You know what I'm saying?

[Luke]

It could be a show title. Two acapellas to rub together. All right, that's gonna do it for today's show, but we'll be back here tomorrow with more imaginary radio. So please do join us for that. In the meantime, everybody, have a great Tuesday. Get to high ground if you need to, and please remember, no mountain Too tall.

[Andrew]

And good luck to all.

Power out.