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- [00:01]
A
I think what they were doing was good to me.
- [00:04]
B
You rehearsed.
- [00:05]
A
You rehearse, you rehearse, you get it perfect, you know exactly what you're doing, and then you forget about it. Let me pinpoint you. You said they learn it, they forget it, and that's okay. That's great. Well, they've forgotten it, but they never learned it. So when do they learn it? I'm just saying, when do we have. But what I'm saying is, if they're gonna forget it anyway, then what difference does it make? I mean, you see what I mean? It's like one of those. It's a Zen thing. It's like, you know, you know how many babies, you know, fit in the tire thing that hold the old joke, you know?
- [00:37]
B
Tbtl.
- [00:42]
A
The new phone book's here. The new phone book's here. I'm somebody now. Millions of people look at this book every day. This is the kind of spontaneous publicity, your name in print, that makes people. Where are you guys?
- [00:57]
B
Have I lost you in the land of never never? I've only ever said I love you to two my entire life. Stone Cold Steve Austin and a guy in a dark club who I mistook for Stone Cold Steve Austin.
- [01:09]
A
I know these guys are annoying, but that's all I got. It's party time, chums. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to a very special mid holidays edition of tbtl. This is, of course, the podcast that just may be too beautiful to live.
- [01:32]
B
I love these guys.
- [01:33]
A
They make funny with their mouths. My name is Andrew Walsh. Luke is out today enjoying a bit of a holiday respite. He will be back tomorrow, by the way. And don't worry, we have a very, very fun show for you today with a very, very special guest.
- [01:49]
B
What you think? I'm dressed to talk. I'm dressed to party hardy like an MC Scat cat.
- [01:55]
A
I am concerned that you think that just because Luke is out today, the show is going to be filled with my boring stories of garbage anxiety and the antics of a cat named Bingo and dream talk. I know you hate dream talk. I did have a dream last night, though. Really Quickly, let's get this out of the way because I think there might be some meaning here. So last night I had a dream that I had to cross this really big river. This is an absolute true story, by the way. I had this dream that I had to cross this really big river and I was intimidated by it, but I was able to do it and I crossed the river successfully. And it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. But then I ran into somebody on the other side and they said, yes, but the problem is going back. Going back. Everybody can cross the river this way. The hard part is going back the other way because there's only one specific way to go back and it's very difficult and very few people can do it. And I woke up and I thought about this and I'm like, this feels like there's meaning here. Like there's something about my life. Maybe I've crossed a river, maybe I've crossed something. I can't go back to it. Or maybe it's about being bold and not being afraid to leave your home or your comfort zone and trusting that you will find your way back. And then I realized I was up until 2 in the morning last night playing Minecraft because I got lost in my damn Minecraft world in this whole dream was just about Minecraft. I'm a 49 year old man and I had a dream about Minecraft. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. We do have somebody here who is way more interesting than me. You probably know her as she's an author. She's an author of Notoriously Bad the True Story of Lou Graham and the Immigrants and Sex Workers who Built Seattle. You might know her as your favorite half of the, let's say, moderately successful cleaning podcast called Spotless. But I know her mostly as a woman who simply cannot get enough Desmond Decker in her life. Scott defines who I am as a person, and I will never turn my back on Scott. Hannah Brooks Olson, that will always be the drop that introduces you on this show. How you doing?
- [04:15]
B
I love it. Okay, so I'm so impressed with your ability to completely reject what your listeners want and care about right at the top of your show to just say, you know what? I know you all hate this, so here we go. I just. It's so bold, so fresh.
- [04:32]
A
This is, this is. There is something freeing about me doing the show. Because the truth is, and I'm not saying this to get sympathy, but there is a huge, I would say more than half of our listeners, a huge contingent of our listeners. The moment they hear my voice before Luke's, they're like, this isn't the episode for me. They just shut the damn thing down and they're like, I don't know, maybe I'll listen to Scott Aukerman or I'll go listen to a leaf blower somewhere. So there's something freeing in that. It's Kind of like the people who are still here. Someday we'll get you on with Luke and you'll actually reach a larger audience, but today, you're just with me, my friend.
- [05:08]
B
I don't know that Luke and I could do it, though, because I think both of us would so not shut the hell up that it would be, like. It would be six hours long. And. And, I mean, because Luke and I have, you know, when we've hung out in person, it's a lot like. It's a. The bar gets loud.
- [05:24]
A
Yeah. He really enjoys watching Mariners games with you and your partner, Keith.
- [05:29]
B
Yes. And we also enjoy it, but it is. I felt the time, especially a couple of years ago, when the Mariners were, like, right on the edge of maybe going to playoffs. I. I just felt the bar was unprepared for the level of volume and gesticulation that the two of us bring in a group.
- [05:51]
A
Now, let me ask you about this, because I believe that particular time that I'm thinking of, when you guys got together to watch the game, Keith was there as well. And I don't think of Keith as a very loud person. Kind of quite the opposite.
- [06:04]
B
Correct.
- [06:05]
A
He's not a man without opinions or ideas. He has a lot of those. But he's a. He's got a more quiet demeanor than you two. So what happens to him in these situations?
- [06:17]
B
I feel that he gets turned up to, like, you know, high for him, which is like 8. Doesn't quite go to 11, but it does tend to, you know, and then, of course, you know, like, nobody's sober by the end of a baseball game. So there's also that.
- [06:31]
A
Not a Mariners game, certainly. That's interesting. I thought, honestly, that it might go the other way, that it would be. If there's two loud people who are kind of dominating, sometimes the less loud person will shrink either even further back. That is. No, he can.
- [06:44]
B
He can get. He can. He can rise to the occasion, I would say.
- [06:47]
A
Speaking of, before the show, you were telling me that you were visiting your parents over the holiday weekend and that you're on a completely different sleep schedule now and that Keith was having some trouble maybe hanging with the rents.
- [07:01]
B
Well, yeah. My parents. So my whole life, my dad worked nights, and my mom just loves to be. My mom has. She does not respect the morning as a concept like she chooses. She goes full. Like Lucille Bluth. Like, I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it regarding anything prior to, like, noon.
- [07:26]
A
This is why people hate hospitals.
- [07:28]
B
Yeah. Where there's no bar. Right. She does not like or respect the concept of the morning. And except in the way of staying up until 4:00 in the morning. So when we are staying at their house. Yeah, we're like up just shooting the. Unsurprisingly, the two people who made me also love to just sit up and chat. So we just like catch up on our cheese May while, you know, my dad and I are like knocking back Buffalo Trace. And you know, it can be. It's. Keith and I have been together now for almost 13 years.
- [08:02]
A
And when's your anniversary?
- [08:05]
B
It is in April. So we're I guess like kind of.
- [08:08]
A
Knocking on the door. No, I wasn't testing you.
- [08:10]
B
I was just like how I had to remember. Well, and it's our as we are as we've been living in sin all these years. We are unmarried. It's our anniversary of our first date.
- [08:20]
A
Yeah. Me and Viv, similar situation. And ours is in January. It's on my mind because I kind of don't know what to get Genevieve yet. And it's a big one. It's 25.
- [08:28]
B
That is big. What is the 25th anniversary? What is it?
- [08:31]
A
I don't know. I keep meaning to Google it.
- [08:33]
B
I always forget those. I just assume every one of them is paper. Cause one of them is paper. And I think that's so ridiculous.
- [08:39]
A
I'll look it up. Anyway, this isn't about me yet. I'll talk about my anniversary plans in a moment. So anyway, you guys have been together for about 13 years. Yeah.
- [08:47]
B
And really one of the first things that we identified was just that my. We. We come from different stock and.
- [08:59]
A
Which is good if you're. It is in a romantic relationship, it's better to come from different families. Yeah.
- [09:06]
B
Ideally. Yes.
- [09:07]
A
Ideally.
- [09:07]
B
Ideally, your family tree is not a wreath and. But what that means is that I do. There's just a lot of days where he's a little slower the next morning and I'm just like bebopping and scatting because I. I don't know. It takes. It takes kind of a lot for me to be hungover even at my like ascendant age of 38. So. And my dad is the same. So he and I are just like, you know, drinking the sweet and creamy. Have an eggnog and. And whiskey. And it was just a little rough for Keith.
- [09:40]
A
But yeah, you're smelling salts to get him out of bed. I'm. The reason it came up before the show is because I'm like Luke and I were on tape on three Thursday and Friday, and I had nothing, literally. You and I often will record our spotless podcast on Saturdays, but we didn't have to do that this Saturday. Like, I did nothing at all on Saturday. And I have just been staying up so late. One of the nights, it might have been Thursday or Thursday was Christmas. I don't know. One of these nights, I remember looking at the clock sitting behind my computer, just doing absolute bullshit. Like, nothing but looking at the clock and seeing that it was after 4, 4 in the morning and having to force myself to go to bed. I didn't even want to go to bed at 4 in the morning. And now I'm doing this with you today, and it's like, we're recording this at noon. Like, it's not early. But I woke up. Hello. You had to be wake up before 10 o'.
- [10:31]
B
Clock. I feel like it's, you know. Yeah, it's a type. I also. I don't know, man. I just feel like I. My. I've never had a normal circadian rhythm in my life. I have work nights. I used to work very early in the morning in radio. And like, once you've worked every hour of the day at some point in your life, I just feel like for me, it takes. I don't have to, like, adjust to a sleep schedule. I'm just like. Or not. So that's a little different. And to your point, I did use smelling salts on Keith, except his version of smelling salts is sour watermelon sour patch. Kids like watermelon sour patches.
- [11:11]
A
Oh, really? Even in the morning? That'll get a kid out of bed, huh?
- [11:14]
B
It is. Yeah, it really is the sort of the jump start. Sometimes you just have to wave it about. The scent of sour watermelon candy is under his nose and he's wide awake.
- [11:26]
A
Just like in Sense and Sensibility. Or was it Pride and Prejudice? Nobody will ever know. So I've alluded to this several times. Hannah and I. Oh, no, really? Host Spotless Together, a podcast about cleaning, which actually ties into a game we want to play today. Kind of a game, which I'll get to in a moment. But I had a very embarrassing moment a couple of shows ago where I was going on and on about a scene where somebody gets her dress famously dirty as she crosses a muddy field. And I kept on referring to the book as Sense and Sensibility. And we were probably 5, 10 minutes in the conversation before I realized I was talking about Pride and Prejudice. I've only read Pride and Prejudice. I'VE never read Sense and Sensibility, but I could just feel like when you are that far into a conversation and you suddenly realize you've been saying the absolute wrong thing, and it's something that is beloved to so many people. You know, people who know this, it's like they know it. It's not. It's easy to keep those two things separated. Right. You had my back, by the way you kept saying, listen. They're both alliterative titles written by the same person in the same era. Like, this is an okay. But it was like Wile E. Coyote looking down and realizing that he has been running over air the whole time. And I didn't know what to do with myself. And the listeners have been relatively gracious about it.
- [12:45]
B
I will say, I just love that you will never recover from this. And it. I mean, here's the thing. I should have been more helpful. I majored in literature, but as I told you, when we were doing it, I was like, yeah, not that. That was not the literature for me that. That whole era. Like I said, like, you know, like Bronte sisters, sort of like, I just. It's just not for me. Although I do. Yes. So not only do we host a podcast about cleaning together, it is truly the grand pod of tbtl, because we did come up with it because of me being on TBTL and talking about cleaning like it was inspired by our TBTL time.
- [13:26]
A
That's an. I should have looked this up. I won't do it now because it'll distract me too much. But it is true. You joined me on TBTL years ago.
- [13:33]
B
Yeah. And we just talked about cleaning.
- [13:35]
A
I think I was living in Wallingford, and you swore by. We only knew each other, I think mostly as Internet friends. I think we had maybe met in passing at the radio station that we both had worked at years and years ago. And I was just like, hey, you want to join the show? You seem like a fun person. And then somebody. And this is the part that I wish I knew. A listener wrote in about some cleaning question. Just generally, how do I feel about a certain way of cleaning something? I don't remember what it was. Then we're, like, getting ready to wrap up the show, and then you and I get this cleaning question. And then we just start talking and talking and talking like you and Luke at a bar watching a baseball game. And then we're like, you know what? I think we both like talking about cleaning a lot. Maybe we should start a podcast. And we did.
- [14:18]
B
Yeah.
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A
And it's called Spotless. What number are we up to? I'm trying to look this up on the fly.
- [14:22]
B
186.
- [14:24]
A
I think we're close. Or I think maybe. Let's see here. Stink for Yourself was episode number 184. So our next. And I think maybe that's. Yeah, I think maybe. Is that one behind, I think, where we are.
- [14:39]
B
Yeah. No, because we're up to 185 now. We had Supes. I Did It Again was the most recent.
- [14:47]
A
That was our last one. That's great. What else did we have here? Air it out. But like an heir to the fortune. Let's see here. Plaguing for Keeps was a show we did recently. Anyway, check out Spotless Pod, if you're interested in that. By the way, the 25th anniversary material, for lack of a better word, is silver.
- [15:10]
B
Oh, okay.
- [15:10]
A
That's easy. I guess I should get Genevieve a sword.
- [15:14]
B
I was thinking, do you know of a silver fox you could lend to her? I was wondering if she's got any.
- [15:21]
A
She would like that more than a sword. Or at least the kind of sword I was thinking of. But anyway, more on that off air, possibly. As I navigate this new phase of my relationship, I want to tell people what you and I are doing today. And we're going to try to keep this somewhat short, if possible. Although you and I also have a tendency to. I feel like every time we dial up to do Spotless, we say we can keep this one short if we want to. And then I'm on 17 tangents within five minutes. And we've. Somebody on Blue sky recently said that the perfect length of a podcast is either 45 minutes or infinity and nothing in between. How do you feel about that?
- [16:04]
B
I would believe it. I, you know, I'm a. I'm a person who enjoys a long podcast. I. Because I have a lot of time when podcasting makes sense in my life, I spend a lot of time waiting for my dog to take a dump. And so. And just like, I putter a lot. I. So I like a longer podcast. But Keith, my partner, he loves, like a short podcast because he is. His backlog of podcasts is wild. And so he loves like a 20 minute pod so he can just scooch through them. I cannot stand that because I am going to have to be like, you know, finagling with it and starting a new episode.
- [16:40]
A
Yeah, I don't want. I don't exactly. My. That's my whole thing. Or that's why I don't like being out of, like, I have probably. I'm probably subscribed to what, 70 podcasts on my machine. On my machine. On my phone. On my phone machine. And I, I care. I care deeply about three of them. And none of them are mine, by the way, which is really. That's what the three I care the most deeply about.
- [17:07]
B
Which one of your three?
- [17:09]
A
Well, I don't even know if that's accurate anymore. Well, it's definitely like two Scott Aukerman ones, which I know you're not on board with as much as I am. I like Comedy Bang Bang. I'm always refreshing on Sunday. That's like the one I'm refreshing on Sundays. Like, when is this thing going to drop? And then Scott hasn't seen is a. Of a sister podcast to that.
- [17:26]
B
Okay.
- [17:27]
A
And you know what, too, I guess.
- [17:30]
B
I mean, it's just got a. I.
- [17:32]
A
Mean, yeah, I mean, honestly, like, because I was obsessed with the Dan LeBatard show for so long and it was all I listened to and they release just so, so, so much content. But then I just, I had, I developed, and the listeners of the show know this about me. I developed, developed such a relationship with that show that I realized I was listening to it long after I was enjoying it. I don't know if you have that experience, but, like, you're so addicted to it and you have such a parasocial relationship with it that you can't stop listening to it, but you're angry at it a lot, a lot more than you should be. And so at a certain point, and then people, my favorite people on the show, just kept leaving and leaving and they were replaced with people who I did not care for. So eventually they made it easier for me to leave. But those are the biggies. What are your kind of. Are you still a crime girly?
- [18:24]
B
I am, but I am a discerning crime girly. I do not enjoy. So I. My crime pods need to have original reporting. They need to have original interviews with sources, really. They need to not be propaganda. And they need to ideally focus on, like, cases that are not sort of the same six. You know, like, I don't need another. I have read every book about the Green River Killer. I was reading. I was reading Anne Rule when I was 10 years old. And my. My true crime girly claim to fame is that my friends and I, when we were sophomores in high school, started the forensic sciences club at our high school, literally, just so that we could get, like, credit or whatever for reading Ann Rule and watching Cold Case Files.
- [19:14]
A
That's ahead of the curve, by the way.
- [19:16]
B
I know. And there's a photo of us in the yearbook. We had our 20 year high school anniversary high school reunion and we were looking through our yearbooks and we were like, oh my God, there we are. We borrowed some crime tape from my dad. And like the photo of us is all of us together wrapped in crime tape. It's really something.
- [19:29]
A
Oh. Oh. For some reason you said crime tape. For some reason I thought like some sort of. Your dad was a cop, by the way. Listeners may not know that. So I see the, the yellow cop tape. Yes.
- [19:39]
B
Like caution, do not cross featuring audio.
- [19:41]
A
Tape for some reason. But I guess that speaks more of my upbringing.
- [19:45]
B
Yes. And then we, we did things like we learned how to do fingerprinting and stuff like that.
- [19:49]
A
Wow.
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B
Yeah. So I. But my. I think the ones I get most excited. Well, so my favorite podcast right now and the one that I get the most delighted when there's a new episode is if Books Could Kill.
- [20:01]
A
Oh.
- [20:02]
B
With Michael Hobbs and Peter, whose last name I always forget.
- [20:06]
A
So I'm completely unfamiliar, I believe.
- [20:10]
B
Okay. So the whole premise, I'm just gonna explain a different podcast on this podcast. So the entire premise of if Books Could Kill is that it's like airport. The worst like airport pop culture type books think the like Malcolm Gladwell ization of. And so they go into. They like read them and like one of them reads the book and does research and then tells the other one about it. Peter is from the five four podcast, which is about the Supreme Court. He was an attorney. And then Michael Hobbs, formerly of you're wrong about. And many. Like a million years ago, I did a Kow segment with Michael Hobbs, which is how I figured out who he was. We did a thing about like millennials because we were both writing about that at the time. But I am so desperately in love with Peter, the co host. And Keith is well aware of this fact. And they are just so like incisive but funny. And, and I love like there's a lot of these sort of again, pop. It's like the, like let them. And like what are some of the other books that they did? It's a lot of those books that.
- [21:22]
A
Freakonomics is on the list. I'm looking at this now.
- [21:26]
B
And it's the kind of books that especially in like 20. 20, 2016, 2017, you know, when I was working at a think tank and doing a lot of work in like econ, you know, really pseudo intellectual men with pictures of themselves holding up a Fish in their Tinder bio. Like those kinds of guys are like, I love this book. It really changed my life. And you're like, this book is dog and the author is a charlatan. And so like that's the premise of the podcast. And I just there the amount of like schadenfreude I get from hearing these two men absolutely like ripped to shreds mostly like bloviating white men who happen to have books is I just love it. So I highly recommend it.
- [22:08]
A
Gladwell is very represented on this list. Oh yes, Walter Isaacson, Thomas Frank. A lot of names that you would recognize as. Do they ever read one of these books and say, you know what, this one wasn't so bad. I'm guessing that Tim Ferriss wasn't one of those. But every now and then do they read one and say, you know what.
- [22:29]
B
They do and there's somewhere. And they are very fair. You know, they are very like, they're willing to say like this is good, this is not. But the main thing about it is a lot of those books are based on junk science or they come in with a premise that the author has predetermined and then the entire book is about building that case, not about like interrogating the premise. And sometimes it's a premise.
- [22:54]
A
Yeah.
- [22:55]
B
And so like but that's my.
- [22:57]
A
That's your number. So that's your number one.
- [22:58]
B
I love it so much. It is my number one. It is also. So it's funded through a Patreon account and it is one of one of the most well funded Patreons like that there is. So they don't have ads and they like have a lot of financial backing from their listeners, which is really fun.
- [23:16]
A
Fun.
- [23:17]
B
Yeah, it's great.
- [23:17]
A
And it reminds me, it reminds me of another podcast that doesn't have ads.
- [23:22]
B
Which one would that be?
- [23:23]
A
Well, it's a little podcast called tbtl. I don't know if you know this, but we are 100% funded by our listeners.
- [23:31]
B
I love that. Thank you, baby.
- [23:39]
A
I didn't plan on doing this here, Hannah, but you led me right into it.
- [23:43]
B
This is where that's that public radio for you.
- [23:46]
A
We thank the folks who make this show possible and ad free, just like that other podcast Hannah was mentioning. But we're not going to mention any other podcast during this segment. We're just going to thank these listeners. This is how it works. Once a year we have a TBTL fundraiser called the TBTL a thon and folks step up and say, you know what? We're going to support the show? Yes. We could listen to it for free. I used to listen to it for free. But now it is time to support the podcasting that I tolerate. And you know who did that? Jessica Fluge in Bethesda, Maryland. It is ironic that I stumbled on Bethesda because I was more concerned about Jessica's last name. It's spelled F L U G G E. So I wrote to Jessica when I was looking ahead at this sheet. I don't do this on regular days, regular work weeks. But when I saw that the show that Luke was gonna be gone for, that I was gonna be hosting, we had a floogie. I was like, I better write to Jessica. Make sure I have the pronouncer on her name correct. And you know what? She wrote back to me and I did have it correct. It was what I thought it was. Floogie.
- [24:53]
B
Now, I don't wanna Bethesda.
- [24:55]
A
That totally threw me. I didn't add. But here's the deal. Now I don't wanna throw any listeners under the bus because we love all of our listeners, especially the listeners who donate to make this possible. But I want you to know that I also sent an email to a listener named Kent. I'm gonna say his last name. Based on what we know about Floogie, I'm going to say Sogi. S O G G e. Now, I think it's interesting that we have an FU I'm sorry, an F L U G G E and an S O G G E in the same thank you list. I think that right there is worth noting. I also think it's worth noting that Kent did not respond to my email.
- [25:36]
B
Come on.
- [25:36]
A
Kent completely blew me off. So I don't know exactly how to say his last name, but I definitely want to thank him. He is in Sammamish, Washington. Kent Soge. I'm gonna say, and if I got that wrong, we're gonna get it right next year. Thank you so much, Kent. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you to Kevin Berry in Issaquah, Washington. Clocked anytime over in Issaquah, Hannah.
- [26:01]
B
Not a ton. Although I will say you really have to be a somewhat local to get Issaquah on the first.
- [26:07]
A
Hey, thank you for giving me that put up.
- [26:10]
B
That is one that is. I don't know if you've experienced. I mean, you definitely have because anybody who lives in Washington or Oregon has had this issue of the city names, that people from the rest of the world. The number of times where in pop culture someone Says Spokane, Washington. And I'm like, come on dog, you've never heard that word before. But Issaquah can be a tough one. So nice work.
- [26:30]
A
Thank you. Hannah, there is one that I think of all the time because as I mentioned before, you and I both have experience working at KUOW Public Radio, probably both doing similar jobs there at kind of different times, although I think we overlapped a little bit, but we didn't really work together. But you know, the big job there as a talk show producer is, you know, get on the phone and you pre interview people to see if they'd be good on the radio or if you know they're going to be on your radio show, you need to get a bunch of information from them to sort of help form and sort of sculpt the interview. And I was interviewing a farmer. This was not on the air. It was just a phone conversation between me and this guy who was probably going to be on our radio show and he was a farmer in what I kept referring to as the Willamette Valley. And whenever I see the word Willamette now, I cringe and I just don't. That was in 2009, probably maybe 2010. So 15 years ago. If I haven't shaken that in 15 years, I don't think I'm ever shaking that much.
- [27:38]
B
Like, much like not remembering Sense and Sensibility versus Pride and Prejudice. It is one that's hard to recover from. But Willamette is a really, really tricky for a lot of people. And the way you remember it is it's the Willamette dammit.
- [27:53]
A
Oh, that's good to know. They should have a fair do the Willamette dammit.
- [27:59]
B
And I learned that from my, my high school English teacher who moved from New York and then lived in Eugene. And, and that was her sort of way of remembering.
- [28:09]
A
Do you think you remembered. You remembered it even better because it was a little bit salty to hear a teacher say that as a kid.
- [28:15]
B
I mean, she was quite salty. So that it was, it was to be expected from her. She. Yes, but it also is, I don't, I mean, not a lot of things rhyme with Willamette. So. Yeah, you know, but yes, and I, I firmly believe too that if someone is. Anytime I hear someone being critical of like Oregon or Oregon politics and then they mispronounce something like Willamette, I'm like, cool. I disregard your opinion entirely.
- [28:44]
A
Although you, and like you, you have a lot of reasons to disagree with people's opinions. I feel like many.
- [28:49]
B
You don't need I don't need an extra one. But it's a pretty good. It's a pretty good heuristic. It's like, a pretty good way to know when you're just like, yeah, nope. And. And like, Oregon and Washington have a lot of. They do have a lot of tough ones, you know.
- [29:02]
A
Exactly.
- [29:02]
B
Puyallup, obviously, is challenging. Here in Portland, we have Cooch Street.
- [29:07]
A
Oh, Luke hasn't mentioned that before. Definitely Coot.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah.
- [29:11]
A
Yeah. The other day. Squim.
- [29:13]
B
Yep. You can't swim to Squim.
- [29:15]
A
It looks like seaquim or something like that, but it's squim.
- [29:19]
B
Yeah. And there's. I mean, a lot of it is because they're, like, indigenous words, so a lot of them, too, you know, if you are Not. If you don't grow up. And I guess the same is true with, like, the east coast, because, you know, Narragansett is the thing. And so it's a lot of, like, indigenous words that you just sort of learn as you're growing up. But I. The other day, I was just, like, telling Keith a story about something, and I mentioned the Siusla river in. In Oregon, and he was like, oh, my God, I'm so glad you finally said it out loud. He was like, I have seen that word so many times.
- [29:50]
A
I don't think I've ever heard of it. I don't know if I've seen it or heard of it.
- [29:53]
B
It's a river that goes to the. That, like, runs through on the coast.
- [29:57]
A
I hear that it's one of those rivers where it's easy to cross going one way, but it's almost impossible to cross coming back. There's meaning.
- [30:06]
B
All I can think with this dream that you have about not being able to cross back is the world's saddest children's book, which is the Bridge to Terabithia. I don't know if.
- [30:14]
A
I don't know if I read it. I definitely know the name of it.
- [30:18]
B
You know, it involves. It's a little river and there's a little bridge, and the kids go across it, and it's like their little fantasy world is on the other side. And then it takes a terrible turn, really.
- [30:29]
A
Is it sadder than where the Red Fern grows? Because that killed me as a kid, and I read it several times.
- [30:36]
B
I think it's only sadder if you're more sad about a child dying in a book than a dog dying in a book. I guess that's what I would say. So your mileage may vary.
- [30:48]
A
Yes. Spoiler alert. To a degree, I guess I.
- [30:52]
B
It's a pretty old book.
- [30:53]
A
I remember having a paperback set of I think five books and they all came in like a little box together and they were like the Newbery Award winning books.
- [31:06]
B
Oh yeah.
- [31:07]
A
And one of them I wish I could remember, I think there were five of them in there and I can't remember the other four, but I know that's where I had where the Red Fern Grows. Is it grow or grow? I can't remember, but I. That book was so, so sad. But I also was really drawn to it. I don't know if that says something about me.
- [31:25]
B
I mean, when you're a kid too, I feel like there's something about reading a book as a child and having an emotional reaction to it where it just becomes like a part of you. There is something unique about being a child reading a book, having a big emotional reaction and feeling like you want to read it again. I definitely, I definitely read a lot of very sad, weird books to myself when I was a kid and they. I just love them.
- [31:53]
A
Now I'm going through, I'm finding other. There's a whole bunch of these collections throughout the 80s and I'm looking for the one that I had and I'm.
- [32:00]
B
Guarantee you it came from the Scholastic Book Fair.
- [32:02]
A
Here it is. Yes, Most likely. I think I found the one. I think this is it. Let me see if I can get into this on ebay. And will I end up buying it? We will see. Come on, computer, don't fail me now. The Witch of Blackbird Pond. One Eyed Cat. I know. See, I had. This is the one I had. But I don't remember any of these other books. Island of the Blue Dolphins.
- [32:27]
B
Oh, sure.
- [32:29]
A
Oh, dear Mr. Dear Mr. Henshaw, it looks like that was Beverly Cleary I Rode and Sign of the Beaver. Weirdly, you know what? Where the, where the Red Fern Grows is not actually in this set. This is the set I had. I must have just had that as a Lucy, as they say, as a loose book. But island of the Blue Dolphins, the Witch of Blackbird Pond, One Eyed Cat. I feel like that one was sad too. Or maybe it's just a sad title. Gee, Andrew, why do you think a book called One Eyed Cat that has a gray cover and a forlorn looking kid with this shoulder slumped over as a sad book?
- [33:03]
B
I'm looking at some Newberry winners and a lot of them are sad. We have Number the Stars, we have the Whipping Boy. Like there are some of these are Very sad.
- [33:13]
A
You know what's really sad is that I am only halfway through thanking the donors for today's show, and I totally lost the thread on this, and we got.
- [33:21]
B
Okay, keep it going.
- [33:21]
A
Wait, should I.
- [33:22]
B
Where are we going after that?
- [33:23]
A
Should I start the music again? Let's maybe.
- [33:25]
B
Yes.
- [33:26]
A
We need to get the energy back up here. There it is. There it is. Come on.
- [33:34]
B
Thank you, baby.
- [33:36]
A
Thank you so much for not just your donation, but your patience. Elizabeth Maxwell in Houston, Texas. We couldn't do this without you. Appreciate it. Houston is relatively easy to say, so I appreciate that, as is Sean Miller here in Seattle, Washington. Seattle. I'm familiar with it. I'm here. See you around town, Sean. And finally. Oh, this is our friend Gretchen Van Miller in Lakewood, Washington. Gretchen came all the way up from Lakewood to Seattle a couple of months ago to meet me in a parking lot under a bridge so that I could give her a big box of leftover bridges. Beads and beads. Beads and string. Good. Pick up on that.
- [34:29]
B
By the way, is Gretchen a cat? Why did she want a big box of strings?
- [34:34]
A
Because Gretchen is the only thing better than a cat, which is a teacher. And we had that is better. This huge party here in Seattle, Me and Luke and John and tens of listeners. It was a friendship making, a friendship bracelet making party. And we had to make, like, so many of the. I don't remember how many hundreds or thousands of bracelets we had to make as thank you gifts for the tbtlethon. And then afterwards, we had this big box of extra supplies. We didn't want to run out, so we bought some extras. And so we were like, this must be valuable to somebody. You can make hundreds of bracelets with all these leftovers. But I was having trouble kind of figuring out exactly how to get them into the right person's hands. And Gretchen reached out to me and said, hey, listen, we could use those in the classroom if you don't mind giving them to me. And I said, mind? I would love that. Gretchen, about two weeks ago or three weeks ago, sent me the most beautiful photos of her students showing off the bracelets that they made with the extra TBTL beads and materials. And I sent that to John and Luke. And we were just so psyched to see that they went to a good home. So thank you so much to Gretchen, Sean, Elizabeth, Kent, Kevin, and Jessica for making TBTL possible. All right, Hannah. Well, actually, I guess this is where Luke would usually hit the top story sound. Or do I even have that? I was so unprepared for today's. Hello and welcome to Top Story. All right, here's what you and I are going to do today. How far into the show are we, by the way? Let's see here. We're already. Okay, 36 minutes. That's manageable. All right. We're trying to hit that perfect 45 minute mark, or infinity to make this the perfect podcast length. One thing we've been doing on the show, and I told you this lately, like in the past week, has been going over listeners top five lists and they're sort of creative. Top five lists. One that stood out to me from last week was the top five underrated smells. I liked that one a lot because I love underrated lists because it's not like, oh, the best smell in the world is coffee in the morning or what have you. Which is. That's a great smell. But like, what is an underrated smell? And I remember our listener said printer paper is an underrated smell. That's a very. Yeah.
- [37:02]
B
Especially when it's just come out of the printer and it's like warm.
- [37:06]
A
Yep. You didn't have. I'm trying to remember what they were called when I was a kid. Like I am. You and I are about 10 years difference in age. You're younger than me. And there are certain things that I think I was just on the very tail end of. And one of them was pre copy machines in schools. I'm blanking on the name of it and I know a lot of our listeners know what it is, but they were like, they were a way of making many copies of something. But the ink was blue and purple. Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [37:37]
B
Yes.
- [37:38]
A
And they had a very specific smell to them. I wish I hadn't started this.
- [37:42]
B
It's not a mimeograph.
- [37:43]
A
Yes, I think it's mimeograph. I was so close in my head, I had all of those syllables sort of jostling around, but I couldn't put them in the right order. Yeah, I think they were mimeographed. So you had a little bit of that too in school?
- [37:56]
B
Yes, I had them more. My aunt used to work in the DA's office and she just like is a whatever, you know, secretary or whatever. And she would bring home.
- [38:07]
A
Is that your dad's sister?
- [38:09]
B
My mom's brother's wife.
- [38:12]
A
Okay, sorry. I just wonder if your dad was a police officer and his sister maybe would work for the da. I thought there's a connection.
- [38:19]
B
He became a police officer because my aunt. Because my mom's brother's wife was working in the DA's office. My family was very poor. My mom had just had her third child and my aunt went to my dad and was like, you have to get a real job with benefits because he was working in the woods at the time. He was a logger. And she was like, you have to get a real job with benefits because you have all these children applied to work at the courthouse. And so he thought he was going to apply to like be a janitor or something at the courthouse. Just like some good union job. And then the sheriff's office called and was like, hi, we just, we actually need cops. And you're like a 26 year old guy and do you want to do it? And he was like, I don't know, I guess, like it's not what he ever wanted to do. And then that's how he became a police officer.
- [39:00]
A
So yes, that's not how I pick. I always picture somebody knowing what they want their career to be and then well, going to police academy and having a bunch of hijinks.
- [39:10]
B
Well, he did go to police academy. I was a kid when he went. I remember going and he was young and already had so many children that everywhere we went like at like I remember going to his police academy graduation and my mom is hauling all these kids around and one of his friends would sing the Brady Bunch theme song everywhere we went.
- [39:27]
A
Oh, because of all the kids there was just so many.
- [39:29]
B
I mean there's only three of us but three is a lot of kids when you're 27 or however old he was at that point. But, but yeah, So I remember going to his police academy like graduate. I remember him being gone to do that. But no, that was not ever what he wanted to do. He was the mechanic first. But, but yes. So we had, my aunt used to bring home mimeography paper like spare mini graph paper for us to, to like draw on. And so I remember like doodling as a kid on, on mimeograph paper.
- [39:55]
A
I'm look, I'm scrolling through photos of mimeograph paper here, like homework assignments.
- [40:00]
B
And then also what is the paper that was, it was like green and white and it had the little frilly edges and it was like printer paper.
- [40:08]
A
It wasn't.
- [40:09]
B
What was that?
- [40:10]
A
It wasn't the stuff that would be.
- [40:11]
B
Fed through a dot matrix, dot matrix, dot matrix paper. That was the other thing she would bring. She would take home old like extra reams of dot matrix paper. And I remember sitting, watching TV like watching Reading Rainbow and Pulling the little perforations off. And it was so satisfying.
- [40:30]
A
Yeah, well, it could be satisfying, but if you got a sticky one, one that didn't want to separate right then it was the opposite of satisfying.
- [40:36]
B
And actually then it was infuriating.
- [40:38]
A
That is the perfect segue into what I want to do with you today, which is go over some more lists. Now, as I mentioned before, you and I host a cleaning podcast called Spotless, which is, it's mostly this, you and I talking about whatever pops into our head and we try to keep it a little bit cleaning related as much as possible. People give us tips for cleaning, life hacks for cleaning things. People ask for advice sometimes. We love it when people call in with like cleaning horror stories. They find themselves in just the worst mess possible. And so because you and I, that's kind of our background together as podcasters and friends, I thought we could put together a list that relates to cleaning in some way. And so what I thought we could do is top five. And we each put together a list here of top five most satisfying things to clean. Now, how we define, we did not talk too much about sort of how we define that. And for me, it was kind of like a combination of low effort with high payout, sort of high, sort of like satisfying emotional and mental payout. Something that did not take a lot of effort. But my gosh, it feels so good to have it done. And so I've got my top five here. I'm going to start with number five and go down to number one. But I think we should probably ping pong back and forth. Like maybe you give me your number five and then I'll give you my number five and then I'll let you know if anything is on your list. Before I get to it on my list, I'll let you know if it's also on my list. I feel like we need some music for this. I wasn't sure what to do and I'm realizing now we should use the spotless music that we use in our show since we're already. Since we already have it here. So here it is. Top five most satisfying things to clean. What is your number five, Hannah?
- [42:33]
B
Okay, my number five is when you have white sheets and you get a stain on them and you can use bleach and you can watch the stain disappear.
- [42:43]
A
Whoa. I've never done this.
- [42:46]
B
Oh, I had white sheets when I lived. Well, I had other colored of sheets, but then when I lived in a studio, I got some white sheets because I realized they would Just be easier to clean, like, to keep clean, because I could just bleach the out of them. And so I had at one point a stain. Well, I spilled red wine on my bed and I had some bleach in a spray bottle. And so I spritzed the bleach onto it. And like, I watched the red wine.
- [43:12]
A
Did you just keep it on the bed while you sprayed it or you. You.
- [43:15]
B
I took the sheet off, but I. But I could do that sometimes. And I would have. I had also, like a little Tide to go bleachy pen that I would use sometimes, too, to keep my sheets. Sheets white. And it was great.
- [43:28]
A
This underscores something, the fact that. And I don't know if we've ever talked about this because I'm just realizing it now. I think I'm scared of bleach. Like, I don't use bleach that much in my life. The only time I use bleach is in the cleaning products I use to clean my bathroom. I grew up with that really hardcore. It was. The brand was Tilex at the time. Now I think it's just like Lysol. Bleachy cleaner is probably what they call it. But like, I just. Like, when I go to clean a shower, I just kind of start by spraying that all over the shower and just letting it work its magic. Especially if you have any kind of little bits of like, you know, not mold, but like, mildew. If mildew is starting to rear its gross little head or something like that, those bleach things will just take it right out. But I have to be very careful what I'm wearing if I'm doing this job, because I will look down at my cleaning clothes and I will see, oh, there are bleach spots all over them. I don't know if I've ever used bleach in like a load of laundry or anything because I'm so scared of it.
- [44:30]
B
It. Well, so you do have to. I will bleach. I bleach a few things. I don't have really white sheets anymore, but I did and I liked it because it was just easy. I knew I could always. You can get almost any stain out of a white, especially cotton, if you just use bleach. Like, it just does it. So I really appreciated that. But then now I mostly use it for my shower curtain because I have like a cloth, a white cloth shower curtain. So I bleach that every couple of months. But then after I run that load, I'm always so afraid that the next load there's gonna somehow be some bleach left over. So I always, after that will do like rags or something I don't care about. So it's like it is sort of a domino effect of laundry where you don't want to put your favorite clothes in in the immediate next load, you know?
- [45:18]
A
Yes.
- [45:19]
B
And I do. I remember when I had communal laundry, I did. I would check sometimes like I would with the, the washer to see if it had a bleachy smell because I was always worried that like somebody else's bleach load was going to do mine. But there's also, I mean, so bleach will bleach things, but also, you know, peroxide products in your skincare will bleach stuff. And sometimes cleaning products you don't realize have some sort of a bleaching agent. So yeah, bleach stains are a very real thing in your other garments. But for, for your whites. Like it really is the best way to get things clean.
- [45:57]
A
That does remind me, before I start my top five list, can I start with one of the most surprisingly unsatisfying cleaning processes? Because it's something I just did last night.
- [46:10]
B
I wrote down some unsatisfying words.
- [46:12]
A
Did you? Okay, here, let me give you one. And then you can ping pong back with some of yours. But people talk about, I don't know why, I don't know why I started this. People are often talking about descaling their coffee. Why did I start my sentence that way? I have no idea. But I know you're supposed to descale your coffee maker. That's not something I ever grew up doing or thinking about. But you know, we got a, not a, not a fancy coffee maker, but we got our first new coffee maker maybe 10 years ago or something. It's a smeg brand little cutesy countertop coffee maker. And it came with instructions and it maybe even came with some descaling solution that you can use. And basically you're running a clear pot of coffee through there with this descaling solution. Except for mine. There must be something different because you don't just run a regular cycle. You have to hold two buttons down at the same time. It's like the old kind of nuclear code thing where you have to have two keys to unlock something. You have to hold two buttons in. I don't know why or what that does.
- [47:13]
B
Severance. You're. You're having to hold down the thing.
- [47:17]
A
Yeah, exactly. And so anyway, I did that last night. I don't have the official descaler cleaner anymore. But as you know, Hannah, from our conversations on the other show, I bought a bag of citric acid a while ago for some sort of experiment or something. And they only sold it in a five pound bag or something. So I have this huge bag of citric acid and anything that takes citric acid you only usually need like one tablespoon at a time or something. So anyway, after months and months, if not over a year of using this coffee maker a lot, by the way, at least one pot a day. Plus on the weekends for my volunteer thing, I make like five pots every Sunday. I had not descaled this thing in forever. And I'm like, I don't really know what, I don't really know why I need to do this or what happens if I don't descale it, but they say to do it. So last night happen to be on my mind, I descale it. And because I'm used to cleaning things that have some sort of satisfying result at the end, I wanted, I wanted something after the clear water went through my coffee maker. I wanted to see it, I wanted to see. I wanted the color of the water to be off. I wanted some sort of indication that it worked. And instead I just got another clean pot of now hot clear water. And I was like, well and then I did have to like kind of flush it again like you just said, with bleach. I had to run another one without the citric acid acid with just plain water. But it was so like, I'm glad I did it, I guess. But my coffee tastes exactly the same today. And I saw nothing in that water that indicated like, boy, really took you a long time to finally do this task. I wanted something that showed me how bad it had gotten.
- [49:01]
B
Oh my God, that's so frustrating. So one of the things that I wrote down that was a very unsatisfying clean is really similar, which is when you clean. So when I clean my air fryer, I always want it to look really clean after I'm done. It's just not gonna happen. There, there is no. There's so many little bits and crevices and the little fryer shelf is never gonna be clean again. And I will scrub it. And I'm like, I'm getting to clean this stuff and it's never, it is never going to be factory reset. And that is the worst feeling. And I know what you mean when you're expecting something. This is why, this is why the hot water extractor, the little green, the whatever Your hot water extractor vacuum, the little vacuum that forces hot water out and then sucks it back up. That is why that is such a satisfying tool, is because you see, like, there, you see the grime in the water. I know. I didn't put it on mine either. I'm just realizing. But, like, that's one of the reasons that's so satisfying is not because you see, you know, like in the commercial, like a really bright clean streak left behind, but because in the water you can see what got pulled out.
- [50:08]
A
Yes, you're absolutely right about that.
- [50:10]
B
That is a critical piece of whether or not a cleaning task is satisfying is if you see the results either on the thing or in the byproduct.
- [50:20]
A
Yes.
- [50:21]
B
Right. And so like in your case with the coffee, it's the byproduct. With the air fryer, it's that I can't see the results as I'm doing it.
- [50:26]
A
Yeah. And also in the byproduct, it's just never going to get totally clean. It's going to naturally have a patina for the rest of its days. Now, I wish I had thought of the Bissell vacuum cleaning experience for my number five, but I didn't. So with this one, we can dismiss pretty quickly because it's not that interesting. My other. I do think four through one on my list are going to get more interesting, I promise. Stick with me. Number five is basic as hell. I just put a mirror. Bathroom mirror is very easy to clean, and it's very satisfying. You even just have people brushing their teeth. Just little splatters here and there. It can build up and you kind of don't realize how bad it's gotten. And you're like, wait a second. And then all you have to do is like, spray it with a little Windex or I use some, like, kind of, you know, some window cleaning concentrate in a little spray bottle, and it takes you 30 seconds. And it's a world of difference.
- [51:17]
B
And as I experimented with for spotless, because I read somewhere that you could use just like dish soap.
- [51:22]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [51:23]
B
Soap. And I wasn't sure if it was going to work.
- [51:25]
A
It totally works in a spray bottle. You water it. Spray bottle. And did it.
- [51:29]
B
Yep.
- [51:29]
A
Also have a defogging quality or am I just.
- [51:32]
B
It really did. I felt like it kept. No, I felt like it kept my mirror cleaner longer. I really, really did appreciate. I thought it was going to be kind of streaky or too sudsy, but it actually really. It was very satisfying. So if for some reason you're cleaning A mirror or windows. And you don't have a window cleaner. Instead of using a multi purpose. Because that can be kind of streaky.
- [51:52]
A
That can be streaky. Yeah. Don't use multi purpose.
- [51:54]
B
Whatever your dish soap is. Just a little bit. Water it down and it works great.
- [51:59]
A
That's assuming you have an extra spray bottle laying around.
- [52:02]
B
Sure. Which I assume everyone has many extra spray bottles because you can't throw those away. You never know when you're going to need one.
- [52:09]
A
What is number four on your list of most satisfying things to clean?
- [52:14]
B
My filthy car. When I get a really good clean on my car, it feels so good to get in it.
- [52:22]
A
Yes.
- [52:23]
B
After I have cleaned the cup holders, I vacuumed the seats, I've used Folex on any stains. And like, I'm such a little rodent in my vehicle. I am eating sunflower seeds and I got the dog in the backseat half the time.
- [52:36]
A
It's funny you should say that because you've literally had many issues with rodents in your vehicle as well.
- [52:41]
B
I know. And it's definitely a. It's a. It's an own goal. It's definitely.
- [52:45]
A
It just occurred to me, maybe they think you're their queen.
- [52:49]
B
I. I might be the rat queen in my car. And it's funny, though, because they never actually get in my car. They always just hang out in the hood. But I. When I have really spent the time to clean my car and, you know, I've used Armor all on the dashboard and I've wiped down the inside, which is the worst. Doing the inside of your windshield. But then when you're driving and you're just like, oh, yes. Oof, I love it. What about you? What's your number?
- [53:12]
A
That's really interesting. I do want to say I. I wanted to put that on the list. But the thing for me is, like, you're absolutely right. And you're speaking to me because I. Dealing with something called winter car syndrome right now. And my car, it has some sort of seal leak, if that makes sense. Like, our car is accumulating water, and it's not water that we're tracking into it. And so, like the car seat right now, the driver's seat has a big, like, water stain across it. And it's just so in the. And the floor mats and everything are just like, really, really scuzzy. And I'm just. I can't wait for, like a somewhat nicer day to go out there and really clean it. And I will. But I didn't put that on my. You're right. There is nothing more satisfying than getting in your car after a big clean like that. However, the cleaning is one of my least favorite cleaning projects. Like you mentioned trying to like reach and you know I have much longer arms than you, but like even trying to clean the windshield on the inside and that weird corners and like you're trying to get around and you're trying to detail it and like you just can never quite just like get in there. Do you ever use that pink goop stuff? Have we talked about this to like get the crumbs out of the cup holders?
- [54:21]
B
No, I did the thing I saw, I don't know, a tick tock or whatever about how to make of your own using glue and contact solution and it worked a treat. It was great. But honestly, I think if your kid just has some old silly putty, it would do the same thing. It's really just something sticky so you can get it in there and then peel it back. I'm like, that's really what it's for. I've said this on Spotless before, but Keith's trick for doing the inside of the windshield is he uses the Swiffer like. Oh yeah, flat headed the, the sweeper. Not like the, you know, obviously the jet one, but like the really basic Swiffer. Sort of rotating the flat guy with Windex and a rag and then he just kind of gets in there and wipes the windshield like that. And it's really effective because that's also.
- [55:04]
A
Swivel joint on the end of it.
- [55:06]
B
Which means it's flat so it can actually wipe. And you know, you can change out the rag if you need to. That's also a very effective way to clean a shower, which is one of my most needed cleaning tasks. I hate cleaning the shower. Using the Swiffer like wipey boy is a really good way to get that done quicker.
- [55:22]
A
Interestingly. And I don't want to if this shows up on your list, I don't want to blow that up. But that would like the first things I thought of were car and bathroom as far as experiences of just like once it's clean, feeling very satisfied. But both of them are like not my favorite things to clean. Like again, like I was trying to think of like easy things like it. So you do very little, but you get a lot out of it. And so number four on my list now. Hannah, I'm serious. I don't want to fight about this, okay? Because I know that, I know that this is not on your list because this is one of your least favorite things in the world.
- [55:52]
B
Yes.
- [55:52]
A
But for me, and this just happened to me, like, literally over the weekend. I was like, oh, I got to add this to the list. I was taking a shower, and I noticed, oh, the water isn't draining all that great. And so I pulled my. The. The shower drain trap out. Now I have one that is called, like, a shower shroom or something. It actually kind of rests down into the drain, and it collects all the hair into the detritus and everything that slowly builds up when you take a shower. And I realized, oh, that thing needs cleaning. So I pull it out after my shower, and it is just covered. It is gunky. It is. You hate this. I know. It always makes you gag.
- [56:29]
B
I hate it so much.
- [56:30]
A
I will do my best not to describe it too much, but it was as nasty as nasty could be. But all I did was I grabbed a paper towel and I wiped it off, took a little bit of elbow grease, put it back right into the drain, and then everything drained very nicely. And it took me 30 seconds and makes a world of difference for my next shower.
- [56:50]
B
Yeah, it. And it is, you know, it is very satisfying once it's done.
- [56:54]
A
Yeah.
- [56:54]
B
When you are done, it is really great to have it done, but the act of cleaning out the shower drain is.
- [57:01]
A
It's nasty. It reminds you that you're human. It reminds you of the stuff you're sloughing off.
- [57:07]
B
Yes.
- [57:07]
A
Just on the rig. And then once it is.
- [57:10]
B
Starts collecting, it's so unpleasant.
- [57:13]
A
All right, well, let's maybe hopefully get into some more pleasant talk here. What do you have for number three on your list?
- [57:20]
B
So number three, this is kind of specific, but I was thinking about the other day is a child's very nasty face. Like, when a child has been, like, eating and they're very messy, and you get in there with just a baby wipe, whatever, and you just, like, wipe their sticky little face off, and then you get to see their cute little face afterwards, and it's clean, and it doesn't stay clean for very long at all. And part of it is getting a child to sit still long enough to do it. But, like, once you get in there and do it, it just. You feel really like you've done something that's interesting.
- [57:49]
A
That surprises me because I have never had that experience. I don't have kids in my life, but I feel like it would be like. I would feel like I could never get it clean enough, sort of. I feel like with a kid, you kind of got to, like, you got to get to a point where you're like, well, it's good enough, right? Because they're just gonna. Another giant lollipop or whatever kids do.
- [58:07]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [58:07]
A
Right.
- [58:08]
B
Just an enormous bulb of cotton candy.
- [58:11]
A
Yeah, right.
- [58:12]
B
Yeah. A big, flat, swirly lollipop. Yeah, it. But it's one of those. It is one of those things, though, where, like, if a kid has a sticky face and you've just been looking at it and you're like, oh, my God. And then you finally get in there, it just feels really good.
- [58:23]
A
I believe that. So that was your number three. My number three. And I don't. Oh, yeah. No. This could affect you, too. You wear glasses sometimes, right? Eyeglasses. Eyeglasses is number three to me. Similar kind of thing where. As the drain, I should say, where you kind of don't. I clean my glasses a lot, by the way, but I think it's whether you do it all the time like me, or once every six months like Genevieve, it's one of those things where you kind of don't realize, especially if you wear them all the time like I do, you don't realize that they're starting to get dirty until you're looking at something and the light catches it in this weird way, and it. You're like, what. What's going on? Then you take your glasses off your face. You're like, these things are filthy. What am I doing? And you just grab your little rag. Ideally, what I have is I used to use my shirt all the time or tissues or whatever, but now I do try to keep a lot of these little microfiber cloths around. And ideally some sort of a spray. That's my favorite. Like if you have a mild kind of window spray, window cleaner, glass cleaner kind of thing, or they. They sell some that is made specifically for glasses. Sometimes I use the stuff that they sell to clean, like vinyl records or something like that. But just like that. I like spraying it. I can also do it under the sink with warm water and soap. But I like a spray. What about you?
- [59:45]
B
So I actually have my eyeglasses as one of my unsatisfying cleanings.
- [59:49]
A
Really.
- [59:50]
B
But it's because, again, I'm a rodent person. My eyeglasses are often scratched, or there's something else the matter with them. I don't. Because I don't wear them that I wear them, like, at night and sometimes. But I am very sensitive to light, and so I really cannot not wear sunglasses. Like, I really need to be wearing sunglasses when I'm outside. A lot of the time. And so I just don't wear my eyeglasses that often because I want to wear my contacts. But so a lot of times I will think my glasses are yucky. I will clean them and I will realize that there's a structural issue.
- [60:25]
A
Yeah.
- [60:26]
B
They're just. And. And it's also one of those things that sort of doesn't seem to take. Every time I clean my glasses, they just immediately are. So I. I find that unsatisfying.
- [60:35]
A
Yep.
- [60:36]
B
But I was. This is a tangent, but it's not. It's not. It's related. The other.
- [60:42]
A
We never go on tangents on this show.
- [60:44]
B
Right. I know. So the other day when I was visiting, when I was down in Eugene, I went and visited my grandmother. And for a while my grandparents owned a bar in Lewiston, Idaho, in like the 90s. And my grandfather loved. It was his dream. But my grandmother was like, whatever, but she worked behind the bar. And she was telling me a story that I'd never heard before about this guy who came in, just like an older guy came in to get a beer. And she was like, your glasses are filthy. Give them to me. And she's like everybody's nanny. That's like her vibe. She's like a 4 foot 9. My little Mexican grandma. And she was like, give me your glasses. They're filthy. So he like hands them across the bar. She goes. She like washes them, uses dish soap, gets them really clean, puts them back on. And then a couple days later, the guy comes back, he sits down and immediately just takes them off and hands them to her. And she was like, oh, I've started something. And then he would come in, and every time he came in, she would clean his glasses for him.
- [61:40]
A
That's really sweet.
- [61:41]
B
And I thought that was so cute. I'd never heard that story before. So for her, apparently that was a satisfying cleaning glass.
- [61:46]
A
That's. Well, she also. Sort of. Well, it had to. It had to be done the first time because it was driving her crazy.
- [61:52]
B
That is like she was looking at the managers like, I have to. I have to do this for you.
- [61:56]
A
There. There. That. There's a whole conversation there. Things that are other people's, but it's so dirty that you can't help yourself. I did that. Honestly, I went on a little bit of a. Not a big one, but a little bit of a cleaning jag on Christmas day because, like, the kitchen floor really needed a mopping. I'd been keeping it semi vacuumed, but like, once a kitchen Floor starts to need a little bit of a mopping. It just, like, it's a snowball rolling downhill. It just gets real bad real fast. And I had been putting it off, and so I had some extra time, so I cleaned that. And so I was already in little cleaning mode. And Genevieve has her work desk kind of out in a main area of our basement that I walk by all the time, which is kind of a, you know, like, I definitely have the better deal here because I have a whole studio here that I can close. Yeah. And she's kind of in a hallway, so, you know, I don't want to give her a hard time for that. But I. But desk was just getting more and more dirty. And I don't mean, like, papers and stuff stacking up, although I don't not mean that either, but I just mean, like, the desk that I was walking by all the time was getting, like, just more and more food crumbs and rings from glasses. And then dust was falling. Of course, we have a cat, and there's, like, a lot. And so at one point, Genevieve was in the other room. And later on, I told her my Christmas gift to myself was, I cleaned your desk. I don't even think she realized that was the shocking thing to me, because I was like, what would I do if I was just like, if I was hired to clean this home, how could I do this in a way that wouldn't be invasive to Genevieve's stuff, but also when you come to sit back down, because I don't know if you've ever had a house cleaner or keeper. We hired somebody for a brief period of time in Los Angeles, and it was kind of nice. You'd sit back down at your desk, and you could tell everything had been wiped and cleaned and everything. But all of your stuff was still there, but maybe organized into nice little piles or something, because they were going to just scatter it around again? So I tried to do that. I tried to recreate the experience that Genevieve had left as far as where all of her belongings were, but just wanted everything to be clean, and it was really dirty. I took a vacuum behind there, and I was sucking up hairballs and everything, and so I just cleaned. And I guess I'm just thinking about that because your grandma saw somebody else's mess and couldn't live with that in her own life, and that's basically where I was.
- [64:05]
B
She used to do that. She stayed with my family for a little while, and she would do that, too. She would just, like, start folding laundry like, she is so someone who will just start cleaning somebody else's mess. That's 100% her vibe.
- [64:15]
A
Yeah. And you and I have talked about that. You got to be careful, too. I was one time, I was at a friend's party, and they have an impeccable house. They have a beautiful house. They put so much work into it. It's like a mid century modern vibe. And, like, everything is so sweet, but I'm a little bit taller than everybody in the house. And they have this.
- [64:29]
B
Oh, my God, Yes.
- [64:30]
A
What do you call it? Like an. A stove hood or an oven hood that drops down over their. Over their island in the kitchen, if you can picture it. And I'm just tall enough to see the top of it. And so I was able to see all this, like, dust and, you know, it's grease and stuff. And again, they're very clean people. They just didn't see it. And it took. I'm trying to think, did they. That wasn't one where I clean. Did they catch me cleaning that? I can't remember what it was. I remember being very, very close to just taking a paper towel and cleaning it, but I don't think I did. I think I was able to keep my shit together because that's pretty rude. I mean. I mean, depending on the circumstances.
- [65:06]
B
But at the same time, as a person who is 4 foot 11, I cannot see the top of my fridge. The top of my fridge is none of my business. It is. It is a Narnia to itself.
- [65:15]
A
I probably need to get over there and clean that well.
- [65:18]
B
I was with my nephew, who is. I. He's 14 and he is, I am not exaggerating, 6 foot 3. At least. The kid is so enormously tall. And I was like, dominic, I swear, if you ever come over to my house, I was like, you're gonna see things that I've never seen, like the top of my fridge. And I watched him realize for the first time that there are just things that, like, shorter people don't see. Because I was like, tom, if you come over, like, you. I've never seen the top of my fridge. I don't know what it looks like. And you will come in and you will be, like, at eye level with it practically. And he was like, oh, yeah. And I was like, so if you come visit me in Portland, I might put you to work and make you dust it up my fridge. But I'll buy you something in exchange because I'm a good auntie.
- [65:58]
A
But, yeah, don't you have a Stick you use to get things off the top shelf.
- [66:01]
B
I have a very long wood spoon. I have a wooden spoon that for some reason. I don't know why I. I don't know where I got it. I don't know why I have it. I don't know why it's so long, but I have, like a foot. Maybe it's. It's 15 inches long wooden spoon. And so that's what I use to.
- [66:18]
A
Bang things off, knock things off. All right, let's see here. Where are we on our list? I just gave my number three, so I think we're ready for your number two, I believe, most satisfying cleaning.
- [66:28]
B
Mine is when I put my dog's blankets in the washer and dryer. And then afterwards, I get to clean out the lint trap, a very hairy dog blanket, and the lint trap afterwards.
- [66:43]
A
Hannah.
- [66:43]
B
Oh, my God. It's like a whole new blanket.
- [66:45]
A
Lint trap is my number one. Just lint trap writ large. In fact, it was hard for me not to just say filters. Generally speaking, anything that filters. But especially a lint trap like Genevieve actually kind of we were talking about over dinner last night, she's like, well, lint trap would be high on my list. And I almost. Well, you're supposed to clean it out after every use of the dryer. But the thing about that is, it's less fun to do it that way. So maybe if you let it build up one or two, then you get that nice blanket kind of that you're peeling off.
- [67:17]
B
This is why the dog. The hairy dog blanket, and I assume with Bingo as well, is so good, because everything that lint trap is pulling out, which is also the reminder to make sure your lint trap, beyond the trap itself, is clean. I just the other day, took my little stick vacuum down into the actual. Like, I took the trap, and I did that.
- [67:38]
A
It's a fire hazard. You got to keep that clean.
- [67:40]
B
It really is. And it's one of those things that I live in fear of that, like, somewhere there's a lint buildup, and I'm gonna catch my mouth on fire. So that is definitely, yes, lint trap.
- [67:49]
A
In fact, one of the first things that I learned on Spotless, and I don't. I assume it might have just been your tip, it might have been a listener's tip, was when you have a really, like, a blanket that's covered in pet hair, just throw it directly in the dryer. Don't even worry about washing it first. Just put it on, like, no heat or low Heat in the dryer and let it tumble for 20 minutes. And the act of that, that will just pull all of the hair off or a lot of the hair off and pull it into the lint trap. Now clean the lint trap immediately. Now throw it into the washing machine if you still want to wash it, but at least get the hair off it. By doing that non wet process. Taking a really hairy blanket and throwing it in the washing machine first just kind of creates a mess of hair.
- [68:33]
B
Yes. Yes. If you ever just have something that has dog hair on it, like if you're. Whatever your leggings, your sweatshirt just is covered in dog hair or cat hair. If you. Yeah. Throw it into the dryer, just let it knock around, let the static kind of grab at it and you. It is a really easy way to.
- [68:49]
A
Just get dog hair off and ground yourself before you then take it out.
- [68:53]
B
Make sure you're gonna get a little lifetime.
- [68:56]
A
Yeah, I've also been re watching Better Call Saul. Did you watch that? Did you ground yourself? Ground yourself?
- [69:04]
B
Yes. And leave your phone out in the mailbox.
- [69:07]
A
Okay, so my number one was. That was your number two. So I'm just gonna give you my number two and then you'll have the solo number one. My number two is email inbox.
- [69:19]
B
I was wondering if one of them was gonna be digital.
- [69:22]
A
I love just like when your email is starting to build up. I actually don't. I use Gmail, so I don't know if I get. I don't get those noises that you. I assume that you're somehow in the Apple family, isn't it?
- [69:34]
B
Well, you get the sound when you empty your wait bin.
- [69:38]
A
Oh, yes.
- [69:38]
B
You know, yeah.
- [69:39]
A
Oh, that maybe I do have. I think maybe I just have all sounds turned off my computer because of broadcast purposes. But. But just like kind of taking a moment like when you open your email and it's just like there's just tons and tons of stuff in there and you're like, my life feels like a mess ever. This inbox represents my life. I just feel out of control right now. Let me just sit down. Let me just start with the easy thing. Sort by sender and just like delete every email that you got from Sears, which doesn't exist anymore. I was just reading about Sears. There's only three.
- [70:14]
B
Somehow they're still sending you emails.
- [70:16]
A
Yes, Somehow they figured. And it's Searsotmail.com.
- [70:22]
B
And then they asked you for your Social Security number and you were like, why do you need that, Mr. Sears, by the way?
- [70:29]
A
For People who think I took the holidays off for the TBTL newsletter. I spent a decent amount of time on Friday, the day after Christmas, doing a full TBTL newsletter. Mostly wrote about how I was working on the day after Christmas. Did a video, Did a hey dummies video from the parking lot of the dmv. Like, had a whole newsletter, sent it out. And apparently one of the links that I included in it to, like, somebody's newsletter or whatever it was was flagged as dangerous by almost everybody. So not only did nobody see the TBTL newsletter that I sent out, but it wasn't just going to spam, it was going to spam. One friend showed me on her phone. It had a little icon of a fishing hook next to it. They said that I was fishing. I was unfamiliar with that icon, and I was just like, not only did I actually do this on a holiday, but nobody knows that I did it. It. It just went right to everybody's spam folder.
- [71:31]
B
Save it. Can you find, like, can you resend it?
- [71:33]
A
I mean, I could, yeah, I guess I. If I cared. I guess I could, like, try to strip all the links out of it and resend it, but I don't think. I don't want to. I don't want to reset. Like, it is what it is. It was just. It was just an email, but it was just sort of a. It was just like. And it was just like, if. No, I could have just skipped it. Nobody was probably even expecting it, you know, during the, like, the height of the holidays. But I was like, no, I just. I feel like I should do this. And so I did it. And then nobod knows. But now all the listeners who've made it this far into the show know. So, okay, so inbox. Clean out inbox. Although that could apply also. Just like sorting, like kind of cleaning off your. Your computer desktop or whatever, sort of digital cleanup. Oh, that's very satisfying to me and not that onerous for me. Once you sit down, you have yourself a glass of wine or something, you just kind of start as my dad. My dad. By the way, we talk about this on tbtl. I don't know if I've mentioned this to you. My dad does not go through email. If I call him and it's in the evening and I happen to catch him in his little study downstairs, I'm like, hey, hey, dad. It's me, Andrew. Did I wake you up? No, no, I'm just sitting down here, blasting through emails, blasting away emails. I'm just blasting away some Emails here. He's always, he's not checking email. He's always blasting away emails. And honestly, that speaks to what I'm talking about, about cleaning your inbox. He's using like, you know, he's going out there with some dynamite and just like blasting away some of these howitzer. Exactly.
- [73:01]
B
That reminds me of something Keith's mother says and it gets me to my number one.
- [73:06]
A
Good.
- [73:07]
B
So a Debbie Caswell original is she will say that she's gonna go toot the vacuum around and makes me laugh. And so we say that in our house. Oh, I'm just gonna go toot the vacuum around. And then my number one is vacuuming up a crunchy mess. When you have crunchy little bits or something pet related.
- [73:29]
A
Or is this like any snack, like.
- [73:31]
B
Potato chips, I dropped something. I. Whatever. And when you run the vacuum over and you hear it go, and you're like, oh, we're working.
- [73:40]
A
You mean.
- [73:41]
B
Yes, a crunchy mess when you're vacuuming it or even if you didn't know there was a. If you're just vacuuming and you hear like. And you're like, yeah, we're doing something.
- [73:50]
A
I know, exactly. So right now we have this wall to wall carpeting down in our basement. We're going to be hopefully getting rid of that at some point. We're talking actually somebody is going to be here in a little bit. We're talking about maybe doing a bit of a remodel down here anyway. But right now we have this wall to wall carpeting and there's an area where our cat's litter box is pushed back into this area that is not a common area which is so great. It's back kind of by this hot water heater and it's got a little sliding closet door that we can just leave for Bingo to come and go. It's really the best situation we've had for a litter box. Like, it's just completely out of sight, out of mind. But when Bingo leaves or maybe when he's just kicking up, there are little particles of what again, a Bob Walshism my dad would call shit seeds, which is just like little bits of like the gravel, the actual kitty litter or whatever gets kicked out and you don't see it on the carpet. But then when I run the vacuum, as my grandma would say, and you're vacuuming, vacuuming, and then you get to that area right outside this closet and you get that sound that you're talking about as all of this invisible sand is being vacuumed up into My Dyson. That's a good number one, man. That's a very good number one.
- [75:01]
B
That's the good stuff. That's when you really know you've been and related too though, with your Dyson. If I've been vacuuming up, especially like the rug and like where Lola hangs out and then it tells you your filter is full or the airway is blocked and you and you have to get in there and clear out the filter. That's also pretty satisfying. But really nothing is better than vacuuming and hearing something being like, didn't even know I had a mess there and I took care of it.
- [75:27]
A
That's really good. You're absolutely right. That reminds me, I think I'll save this for Spotless, but for months now I've been meaning to tell you, you and I both have those cordless Dyson kind of stick vacuums with the various attachments. I discover one of mine was acting up one of my attachments and I thought it was broken, but it wasn't, Hannah. It was just clogged in a way that I didn't know it could get clogged. Not an airway, but the wheel. And I found a way to kind of quick release some things and then I took out just this huge chunk of like compacted dust that I didn't know was in there. I'll tell you about that on Spotless. How about that? Check out Spotless next week. Can you remind me to talk about.
- [76:10]
B
That great forward promo?
- [76:11]
A
Can you put that on the show?
- [76:12]
B
Putting it on my notes right now.
- [76:15]
A
Thank you. I'll try to do a demonstration via video for you. I'll bring it in. Yeah. All right. Half the show is already, so let's see. We do Spotless every other Monday, so we'll have a new one coming out this coming Monday, right?
- [76:28]
B
Yeah. And if you're curious about what kind of stuff we do, you can find it on spotlesspod.com youm can also find. I have an Instagram and a TikTok that I make videos on sometimes are cleaning related. So if you're the kind of person who maybe you don't need a whole new podcast in your life, but you do like to see like memes about cleaning or videos of me trying out different cleaning things, you can find it at Spotless Pod.
- [76:51]
A
And if you're somebody who thinks that cleaning isn't for you and it sounds tedious, maybe it is, but I don't think it is. It's a lot of me and Hannah talking about how my dad likes to blast away emails and stuff like that.
- [77:02]
B
Or how my mom stays up all night.
- [77:03]
A
Yeah, it's a lot until 4 in the morning.
- [77:05]
B
We talk a lot about our pets, too. You're gonna get a lot of pet talk.
- [77:08]
A
Oh, that's right. You're gonna get the occasional appearance from Lola the dog and Bingo the cat. So check it out if you're interested in that. Anything else you want people to know about Hannah?
- [77:17]
B
I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so.
- [77:20]
A
Sounds good. Well, then let's get out of here. Luke will be back for a new Tuesday edition of TBTL tomorrow. Hannah, thank you so much for doing this. Really do appreciate it. Giving up your Monday to be on the show. All right, here's how it's going to work. Hand. At the end of the show, I'm going to say no mountain too tall. And if you want to, you can say good luck to all. If you don't want to say that, it'll just be really weird, awkward silence for a long, long time.
- [77:43]
B
Okay, well, I'm tempted. Yes, I'm ready.
- [77:46]
A
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening today. Really do appreciate it. We will talk to you tomorrow. And until then, please remember, no mountain too tall.
- [77:55]
B
And good luck to all. Power out.