#4668 If Not Who, When?

Summary

TBTL #4668 "If Not Who, When?"
February 20, 2026
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

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Episode Overview

On this Friday edition of TBTL, Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh take listeners on a lively, meandering ride through topics ranging from art appreciation and Lana Del Rey’s album covers to the questionable aesthetics of NFL coaches and the existential peril of sports franchises moving cities. Along the way, they ponder high/low culture, discuss meme literacy, and share personal growth moments — all in the irreverent, riff-laden style familiar to TBTL fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Art, Ambiguity, and Feeling "Off-Balance"

Summary:
Luke recounts a recent experience while working on a piece about artist Robert Therrien, challenging his own expectations about what constitutes "art." The episode’s early segment dwells on how encountering the unexpected in art (or movies/music/culture), though uncomfortable, is something to embrace rather than reject.

Highlights:

• Luke describes feeling unsure if everyday items in Therrien’s studio (“Is this a ladder or is this art?” [05:52]) were preserved intentional objects or functional tools.
• He remembers being underwhelmed by a piece at the Venice Biennale, then later learning it was painstakingly made of gold ("trap door" art that subverts expectations).
• Andrew connects this to youthful attraction to experimental music, noting that sometimes discomfort is the point:
  “I think at that time in my life, I liked something that wasn’t predictable… now some of that stuff doesn’t hit my ears the same way.” [11:13]
• Luke muses:
  "Maybe actually a feature and not a bug – the not knowing exactly how it’s going to go or how I feel about it. That’s the process." [10:33]

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2. Lana Del Rey, Album Covers, and Intentionality in Aesthetics

Summary:
A deep-dive into Lana Del Rey’s public persona, music, and especially the puzzling design of her album covers — centered on "Norman Fucking Rockwell." The hosts analyze whether her apparently low-fi or "bad" choices are intentional subversion or genuine indifference, drawing parallels to their earlier art discussion.

Timestamps & Moments:

• [23:31] Andrew directs Luke to look up the "Norman Fucking Rockwell" cover, noting its comic book-style font and atypical vibe.
• [25:29] Andrew: “There’s something about this album cover that is kind of hideous, but intentionally so, very intentional.”
• They fall down a Reddit rabbit hole of fan reactions:
  "I’m literally crying right now... but I don’t know what she’s doing with this album cover, it’s so hideous."
  — with another commenter replying, "People are dying, Kim." [26:30]
• Luke draws connections to the fashion choices of indie musicians his daughter admires — is it carefully curated art or just "degaff" (don’t give a f*ck) authenticity?
• Wondering about Lana’s real-life choices mirroring this ambiguity, Luke relays his fascination with her marrying a Louisiana swamp tour guide:
  "Her marriage is like one of her album covers. But Andrew, my question is, is it intentional? Is it artist or does she degaff?" [33:41]

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3. Memes, Popular Culture, and Generational Literacy

Summary:
A detour into meme literacy, focusing on the "Is this a butterfly?" meme and how the hosts’ consumption of internet culture is shaped by their own interests and what the algorithm serves them.

Notable Exchange:

• [19:09] Andrew:
  "Just put butterfly."
  Luke:
  "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s anime… I definitely have seen this cartoon kid and the butterfly."

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4. Sports Franchises and the “Hostage Crisis” of Stadium Funding

Summary:
Transitioning from sports-related in-jokes into serious commentary on how cities are manipulated by wealthy sports franchise owners. Luke laments the threats to move both the Chicago Bears and the Portland Trailblazers if taxpayers don’t provide new stadiums.

Key Points:

• [39:11] “It just absolutely kills me… It feels like part of a bigger… societal problem to me.”
• Andrew draws parallels to similar leverage tactics elsewhere.
• Discussion ties back to the theme of things being lost or changed due to profit (iconic stadiums, city identity).

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5. Listener Interaction and Community Bits

Dazzling Donor Segment:

• [34:02] A thank-you to donor "Nick Sleevies" (a running joke about the old armies-in-your-sleeve pun), who’s now in a Master Gardener program and has an Instagram ("arms4roots") about gardening.
  • Luke: “I’m on a mission this year… to at the very least, start an herb garden because I’m spending so much money on dill right now.” [44:31]
  • Andrew: “How many insults are related to herbs? …We’ve thought of two.” [46:36]
• Listener voicemail from Nick about Nick Castellanos’ beer-in-the-dugout incident and its aftermath [49:20].

Band Plug:

• Donor Corey Plucker promotes his band, Vining Hill (vininghill.net), with the album "Commit" — prompting reflections on the difficulty and courage involved in making and performing original music. [53:53]

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6. Nun TikTok and Life Choices

Summary:
Luke shares a delightful TikTok featuring two young nuns (Sister Mary Bethany and Sister Miriam) discussing their favorite game — "Ultimate Frisbee" — and the everyday camaraderie of their lives. The hosts are charmed by their earnestness and the casual, constant use of “Sister” in conversation ("Should we start calling each other brother on this show?" [59:00]).

Notable Quotes:

• “Sister, you’re just so fast. And, Sister, just full disclosure: you do like to talk…” [59:00]
• Luke reflects on the remarkable focus and renunciation of a typical path:
  "It will never not be interesting to me to see somebody… choose a path to be completely and totally focused on this one thing." [61:54]

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7. Billy Bob Thornton, Robert Duvall, and the Art of Hollywood Bullshitting

Summary:
Luke tries to "rehabilitate" Andrew’s view of Billy Bob Thornton by playing a clip of him telling an anecdote about spending years hiding his veganism from Robert Duvall because Duvall loved barbecue so much.

Memorable Exchange:

• [64:31] Andrew interrupts:
  "He always gets it in." (referring to Billy Bob’s obligatory “I was a musician first…” preamble)
• [66:29] Thornton:
  "If Bobby had known that I… quinoa and stuff, he would have hit the roof."
• [66:56] "I just feed it to the dog under the table when he wasn’t looking."

The hosts riff on the "Rich Eisen show as celebrity image rehab," with Andrew casting Eisen as “the wolf” (the fixer), and segue into a critique of Quentin Tarantino’s films and artistic decline.

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8. Tarantino, Artistic Growth, and Generational Movie Hot Takes

Summary:
The last act features a considered (and rueful) reappraisal of Quentin Tarantino’s films—especially problematic elements of "Pulp Fiction" ("What a weird kink," Luke says about Tarantino's wanton use of the N-word [75:06]), the flaws of “The Wolf” scene, and a preference for "Jackie Brown" over "Pulp Fiction." Discussion expands to how time changes artistic values, and compares Tarantino’s declining cohesiveness to Paul Thomas Anderson's continued evolution as a filmmaker.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "Maybe actually a feature and not a bug – the not knowing exactly how it’s going to go or how I feel about it. That’s the process." — Luke, [10:33]
• "There’s something about this album cover that is kind of hideous that I think, but intentionally so, very intentional." — Andrew, [25:29]
• "Is it intentional? Is it artist or does she degaff? Does she just fully degaff?" — Luke, [33:41]
• "Her marriage is like one of her album covers." — Andrew, [33:44]
• "I know what I’m describing is literally like the first day of any kind of like Art 101 or Art Criticism. So it’s kind of sad that I’m about to turn 50 and I’m figuring this out. But, you know, I guess better late than never." — Luke, [10:33]
• "Sister, you’re just so fast. And, Sister, just full disclosure: you do like to talk." — Sister Mary Bethany / Sister Miriam (via TikTok), [59:00]
• "Who do you think you are? I am." — Luke (riffing on sports meme), [84:47]
• "If not who, when?" — Andrew, [34:36] (joking on motivational slogans)
• "People are dying, Kim." — Reddit commenter (on Lana Del Rey album cover debate), [26:30]
• "He always has to let us know that he just fell back asswards into acting, but that really what he is is a musician. Okay, 100 strike one against Billy Bob for that. Fair." — Andrew, [64:48]
• "You know who never lets us down, Andrew? The first game of spring training." — Luke, [81:07]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [05:09] – The art/life/literal gum conundrum during Luke’s visit to Robert Therrien's studio.
• [23:31] – Start of the Lana Del Rey album cover analysis.
• [34:02] – Dazzling Donors and Nick Sleevies’s ongoing herb garden saga.
• [39:11] – Chicago Bears stadium controversy & city-team politics.
• [53:53] – Band plug: Vining Hill and reflections on live music.
• [57:06] – TikTok nun segment.
• [64:17] – Billy Bob Thornton's Duvall/barbecue story.
• [72:11] – Tarantino evaluation, Jackie Brown vs. Pulp Fiction.
• [81:07] – Mariners spring training opening lineup (traditional hopeful sign-off for Seattle fans).

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Overall Tone & Style

The episode is classic TBTL: playful, sprawling, thoughtful, and driven more by curiosity and rapport than by a strict agenda. Luke and Andrew comfortably veer between high- and low-brow topics, confess their own hangups and self-doubts, and invite listeners into the familiar comfort of their decades-long friendship.

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Useful for New Listeners

While skipping over ads, intros, and outros, this episode is a showcase of:

• Why fans cherish Luke and Andrew for their chemistry, tangents, and unguarded vulnerability
• Pop culture and sports talk refracted through a midlife, nerdy, and self-aware lens
• A recurring theme: embracing ambiguity, whether in art, music, sports, relationships, or the dumber corners of the internet

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Epilogue: The Unifying Question

"If not who, when?" — The playful, slightly broken motivational slogan that also serves as a thesis for this episode: if not these two (to speculate about Lana Del Rey, to overanalyze baseball stadium relocations, to create a podcast about being a goofball in late middle age), who? And if not now, when?

Transcript

[Unknown Narrator]

This is outrageous. Where are the armed men who come in to take the protesters away? Where are they? This kind of behavior is never tolerated in Barakua. You shout like that, they put you in jail right away. No trial, no nothing. Journalists. We have a special jail for journalists. You're stealing ride to jail. You're playing music too loud. Write to jail right away. You're driving too fast. Jail. Slow. Jail. You're charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses. You ride to jail. You undercook fish. Believe it or not, jail. You overcook chicken. Also jail. Undercook, overcook. You make an appointment with a dentist and you don't show up. Believe it or not, jail right away. We have the best patients in the world because of jail.

[Luke Burbank]

TBTL.

[Andrew Walsh]

Guess what day it is. Guess what day it is.

[Luke Burbank]

Friday, Friday.

[Andrew Walsh]

Gotta get down on Friday.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

You're singing that wrong.

[Andrew Walsh]

How I made it up.

[Luke Burbank]

Have you all gone insane? This is not good. Point is, at this time of national peril, we all have to do our part. And by do, I mean don't we all have to don't our part. I have never heard someone say so many wrong things, one after the other, consecutively in a row.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Uh oh, he's starting that funny talk again.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, all right. Hello, good morning, and welcome, everyone, to a Friday edition of tbtl, the show that just might be too beautiful to live. What is this?

[Andrew Walsh]

Only my favorite podcast of all time.

[Luke Burbank]

My name is Luke Burbank.

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm your host.

[Luke Burbank]

You paint your bald spot? What bald spot? Coming to you from the Madrona Hill studio, perched high above the mighty Columbia, where it's cold today. Like, I'm having trouble, you know, like, operating the keyboard here because it's so cold in the Madrona Hill studio. It could be a bathroom. It's just a library with a cold seat. Was explaining to Andrew during soundcheck that the issue is I come out here to the Madrona Hill studio kind of earlier in the morning, and I jump on the old treadmill, the old Nordic track, and I don't want to have the heat on in here when that's happening because I'm already a little nervous of kind of like turning this into a. Like a gymnasium like that. Over the course of time, it will start to, I don't know, have a certain funk in here. And I somehow it feels to me that if I have the heat on and I'm sweating on the treadmill, that's, like, adding to the problem. I don't know if there's any science behind that so I don't have the heat on. But then I come back out here a while later to do the show and it's just friggin freezing. It's okay though. I got this. You can figure this out. You may hear me doing this during the show. That's just me overcoming the odds. To bring you episode 4668 in a collector series. Let the fun begin. You know me, I'm terminally online, always, always falling for some new Internet thing. And there are these two nuns on the Internet that I really quite fascinated with. Actually. Welcome to the Internet. I actually thought it might be AI when I first saw it or a parody of some kind, but it's not. We'll play the audio for you and I would very much like to try to, if I can. And this is, you know, it's a long shot, I'll be honest with you. But I'm going to try to see if I can in some way rehabilitate Andrew's relationship with the actor and musician, or maybe I should say musician and actor Billy Bob Thornton.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Would you say that to Tom Petty? You wouldn't say that to Tom Petty, would you?

[Luke Burbank]

I'm trying to do the impossible here on this Friday show. Speaking of my friend Andrew Walsh, he's the longest running cobra of the show, maybe best known for his depictions of tall ships. I asked him how he was feeling about today's program.

[Andrew Walsh]

I got the time if you got the diapers.

[Luke Burbank]

A direct quote from him. He's joining me right now. Good morning, my friend.

[Andrew Walsh]

Good morning, Luke.

[Luke Burbank]

Could you tell that I had neglected to take the Billy Bob Thornton audio from my email and put it into my soundboard? So that entire tap dance was me going into my email, finding your email. So saving Billy Bub Thornton to the desktop of my computer, finding it on the desktop of my computer, which is a real pigsty, and then playing it.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, you did that very smoothly. I had no idea.

[Luke Burbank]

I felt like this is taking forever.

[Andrew Walsh]

The only thing that. Well, it always feels a little bit like that. So, you know, you've really set a precedent there. Level set.

[Luke Burbank]

That's what I'm all about.

[Andrew Walsh]

But no, I was surprised. I was a little bit slightly surprised that you decided to use the version where he says both. Well, because I didn't have a chance to edit it. But I know why. But I actually thought that was just a decision on your part to play them both in a row like that. Because as the listeners need to.

[Luke Burbank]

It worked out okay.

[Andrew Walsh]

It worked. Those are on the same file. And I sent the file to you and I said, you can play one or the other. And then you played both. And I liked it. And I had no idea it was a mistake. I thought you were just like an auteur, that you're playing by your own rules.

[Luke Burbank]

Uh huh. Well, that's the thing about art. And I've been thinking about it a lot lately because I've been working on that story about Robert Therian, the artist. And I did have the experience. I think I mentioned this on the show, but when I was in his workshop where he also lived, in the upstairs of this workshop that he built, I had the experience of not. I was chewing gum when I showed up for the interview. I'm always very worried about being the CBS correspondent who has rocking breath. But then I'm not gonna be chewing gum during the interview, so I've gotta find somewhere to throw it. And everything was so perfectly preserved. This guy has been passed away for a while now that I didn't know what was art and what was just a functioning garbage can.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, sure.

[Luke Burbank]

So I'm carrying the gum around because I'm like, I don't. Can I throw gum in this thing or is this preserved? Because it was how he left it. And this is a view into his process. And the other thing I had to ask, there was this ladder that was in the upstairs sort of gallery area. There was this ladder that was built into the wall, this very ingenious ladder, but also had all these foot scuffs, like toe scuffs in the wall, like people had been using it. And I asked them, is this a ladder or is this art? They said, that's just a ladder. Sometimes a ladder is just a ladder. So that's what I've got you thinking. I'm so high level with this that

[Andrew Walsh]

you're like, is this art that Sleuth's

[Luke Burbank]

doing or did he just forget to do the minimum of his job, which was drag the audio over into the soundboard?

[Andrew Walsh]

I like the idea of you getting so confused by the time you're leaving the museum or the place, the installation, you're not sure if you're art anymore. I feel like there could be a whole story there.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, I feel like maybe you're being slightly jokey, but slightly not jokey.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, I could actually see that as being sort of a story, like a short story by. I don't know what author I want to attribute this to. Maybe they would. Dave Barry. I think we can do better. But anyway. But like, okay, one of my favorite. I would say one of my favorite sleeper. I think you should leave sketches is where Tim Robinson is on some sort of a game show with his son. It's a very short sketch. And they put a virtual reality headset on him.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that one.

[Andrew Walsh]

He just says, I just. I can't breathe.

[Luke Burbank]

I can't breathe.

[Andrew Walsh]

And it's just over his eyes, right. But he locks up, and then they take it off. And I think that it broke him forever. And, like, he continues to not be able to breathe because he somehow got so into his head about this VR thing. And I'm sort of thinking along those lines.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, the thing is that when I was talking to the curator of the Broad in la, who was the guy that brought in this. He's kind of a sort of, I guess, an expert on this guy, Robert Therian. And we were talking about art, like, before they started recording. And I was talking about this thing that I had seen. And I know I've mentioned this on the show before, but, like, years and years ago, on my first honeymoon, we went to Italy. We went to Venice, and it happened to be this thing called the Venice Biennale, which is a big art kind of world art exposition where every country picks, or the countries that are participating pick an artist, and then that artist does this, you know, gallery, not gallery there, but whatever you want to call it, installation. And I was so underwhelmed with the American installation. It was this guy named Robert Gober, because so many of the other pavilions were just, like, incredible, like, detailed work that looked like it might have taken years of someone's life. And then you go into the American one, and it's just a piece of Styrofoam in the corner of the room. I was like, what a. This is American exceptionalism at its worst. And for years, I used that as shorthand in my mind of, like, just, like, modern art, like, being dumb, because it's like, I know you're trying to be ironic, like, it's a big art thing, but I'm just gonna be like, hey, Styrofoam is art. And then I found out later that it was made out of gold. And it was very, you know, made to look like kind of nothing, but it was itself very both valuable and also a ton of work to put together. And this I was talking about in the. The. The gallerist guy at the Broad was like, yeah, it's kind of like a trap door. He was. I really like art that's a trap door. I like Stuff that brings you in. Thinking one thing and then something else kind of happens. And he also said, I really like art that puts me on my back foot. He goes, I like walking into a room and kind of not knowing how I feel. And I was like, wow, that is really instructive to me because I always like to know how I feel. That's why I don't like movies that confuse me. So I don't really get David Lynch. So I don't really. Because I have this idea that for me to be enjoying something, it has to be going exactly the way I expect it to go. And I thought, wow, what an interesting thing. If I can start to think about stuff, whether it's art or I'm not there with music yet. But let's just go with maybe art and movies and thinking that when I'm on my back foot a little bit when I walk into a room and I kind of don't know is this art or not? Or I kind of don't know do I like it or not? Not assuming that's a bad thing right away because that's how I've gone through my whole life. So I really did have this kind of. I wouldn't call it profound, but like a big thought for me about how I'm going to try to think about. So that could have even, I guess, applied to that happiness movie that we were talking about this week that, you know, I mean, I definitely enjoyed it, but I also wasn't kind of looking for anything that didn't work for me or for like a moment that like I didn't fully understand and then use that as a reason to disengage from it. Now, I don't know if I was like consciously thinking about my conversation about art. That puts me slightly off balance. But yeah, I just think. I don't know, I'd never really thought about that as like maybe actually a feature and not a bug.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You know, the not knowing exactly how it's going to go or exactly how I feel about it. And that's okay. That's the process. I know what I'm describing is literally like the first day of any kind of like Art 101 or Art Criticism. So it's kind of sad that I'm about to turn 50 and I'm figuring this out. But, you know, I guess better late than never.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, it's interesting because all kidding aside, you and I will joke about a time we got a little tetchy with each other about some avant garde sounding music in the middle of a record that you otherwise liked, and you were like, yeah. And you're like, why would anybody just make this just to be mean to us or something. You felt like it was an assault. Like it was just like, they're only doing this to be annoying. And looking back at a lot of the music that I loved in high school and college, I actually am not the same person anymore. Like, I put on a Sonic Youth record that I used to love and I'm like, wow, some of this stuff is a little bit sophomoric. And also actually I. Musically, that stuff stands up for me. But there's some other noise related stuff. Or like I had a. Like I had a Japanese Sonic Youth EP or something that was literally three versions of a song where they just screamed the word no over and over again. You know, it would be more like. It would. It was more like screamo art rock, you know, like almost. And people say this people are very dismissive of Yoko Ono in a similar way, right? And now some of that stuff doesn't hit my ears the same way. Like, I'm not in a situation where I want to be listening to that. Or sometimes I'm like, wow, why was I so into this stuff that was like just what you would hear is nothing but screamy noise. But it's like. Well, I just think at that time in my life, I liked something that wasn't predictable. I liked something that didn't sound like everything else that didn't follow the same rules. Now, it doesn't appeal to me quite as much, but I think I truly do understand the reason why art sometimes, while uncomfortable, it's like there's this. Music is weird though, right? Because as music, art, you're not going into a space necessarily to be challenged by it. You're Sometimes a lot of people are. But you also have the end of the spectrum where it's like, no, I just want to bop my head to something while I'm driving around in my GEO prism.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, I would say music probably is definitely art. And it's probably like other art, like maybe visual art or whatever. It's kind of the mood that you're in. And there's some days that you're, you know, you want to go look at like, you know, a Monet or something that's just sort of objectively very beautiful. And then some days when you want to, you know, like walk into a room where there's a. What you think is a piece of Styrofoam in the corner or at least there's, you know, I just. And with music too, it's. Sometimes you want to listen to something really catchy, and sometimes you want to listen to the Silver Juice. Of course. That's why I didn't get your by the way, very funny, but lost on me joke to Stu in the criminals text chain. Oh, that was such a good joke. And I was like, I don't know what Starlight expresses. Oh, that is.

[Andrew Walsh]

That is a Silver Juice record. Well, I like it because I was like.

[Luke Burbank]

But I understood the premise of the joke. I was like, this is a really funny text from Andrew, but I don't know what that thing is now. Let me look it up. And I saw Silver. Well, that's. That's something Stu would obviously know about.

[Andrew Walsh]

Let's explain this. And also because I'm.

[Luke Burbank]

No, let's not. Let's leave them on their back foot. Andrew, have you learned nothing from our. I'm Art Luke now. I don't explain anything.

[Andrew Walsh]

The joke was I was going to send this long, complicated, somewhat off the wall question about sports to our friend Ders about just some thoughts about the upcoming baseball season that is like, not where anybody's brain is right now, looking at the end of the season and one specific position player and whether or not we see him at the end. So anyway, I just had this weird question that I was going to shoot Ders, because sometimes we sidelined those conversations just between him and I. But then I was like, you know what? I'll throw this entire question to the text chain. Like, is it an interesting thought experimen about, like, where JP might be by the end of the season. But after typing it, it seemed like such a long, bizarre question that then I decided to loop Stu Bot in who doesn't really, I think, follow the Mariners all that closely about. And I asked a similarly deranged, overly complicated question about the album Starlight Walker. And I do think the song that I talked about was the one that you did not like, by the way.

[Luke Burbank]

Lol. That's great. That's like full circle for this whole thing. I want to just read this if I can get to why. What is my boy. I do a lot of tech. I never realize how much texting I'm doing until I'm trying to go back to, like, a specific thread, like, in my mind, the criminals. That should be like, you know, in three texts ago for me, but I guess it's not. Oh, and by the way, a message I sent last night, I want to point out I was not drinking. It didn't go through, I guess, but probably just as well because it was unnecessarily mean to the Seahawks new offensive coordinator. It was. I just saw a clip of him and he is.

[Andrew Walsh]

It went through.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, it went through. I'm. It's. It shows. Not delivered on my screen.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, I don't have the photo. I just have the, the text.

[Luke Burbank]

Have you seen a photo of this guy?

[Andrew Walsh]

Let me look it up. This is the new offensive coordinator. What's his name again?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you got to see. Now I'm going to send it as an sms. It'll go through to you. Andrew. This is. This is what happens, is that. Is that, you know, we have them. We don't have to get into it. But sometimes the phones, Sometimes the. The iOS is. Are having trouble. Now I reset it as an SOS and maybe you'll see this guy like I see this. I know that we're going to the side. I want to. Are. There's a certain, like, football coach guy look. And it's usually. It's kind of one of two things. It's either guy who looks like he might still be able to Play. That's Mike McDonald, right? Or Guy who looks like he played a long, long time ago, but he's lived a really good life and he's had access to lots of spicy nugs and he's Andy Reid, you know, or Mike Tomlin. He's like. There's just kind of like a. There's a sort of like, I don't know, there's like an older coach who, who looks like an older football coach guy. And then there's like a young guy who's like. Like a Sean McVeigh, a guy who's still kind of working out with the, with the players and whatever. And then there's this new OC who looks like he just crawled off of

[Andrew Walsh]

World's Deadliest Catch or Sons of Anarchy.

[Luke Burbank]

Sons of Anarchy. Better. Better reference. And like, I don't know why it was so jarring to me last night. I mean, there's nothing to do. I know we try to be careful again about looks and people and whatever. I feel like this is, if anything, punching up because the guy's highly paid offensive coordinator for an NFL team, but he just looks like a Son of Anarchy who just got jumped in. Or as I put it, he looks like he's three clean UAs away from having a real shot at supervised visits with his kid again.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is it ua, like a P test?

[Luke Burbank]

What is he yeah, that's like a urine analysis. That's like something you would do with your. Like your. Your parole officer. But, like, he just doesn't. He's. He does. And again, we'll. The proof's in the pudding. Who cares how the guy appears? But for some reason, I found his appearance really surprising. Like last night when I. Because I've never seen him before. I think his name is Brian Flurry. And again, I'm sure he's great at his job. I'm sure he'll do really well. But I don't know what I was expecting. But it wasn't this.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, me neither. Until you sent this. Right now, I didn't know what he looked like. And this is not what I had in mind either, but.

[Luke Burbank]

But the exact text that you sent that was very funny was. Well, for some reason I'm having trouble locating. But I just want to tell you, Andrew, I appreciated it. I thought it was hilarious. Even though I didn't know that was a Silver Juice reference. I knew it was a funny joke between you and Stu, and I'd like to see that happen.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay, now, I did want to talk about art some more because it's kind of weird how this conversation we're having about art relates to some strange Internet reading I was doing last night and more like Internet sort of sleuthing about, is it art? I'm doing the meme now of the kid with the butterfly in his hand, and he's saying, is it art?

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know if I know that meme.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, really? It's. I. I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen it. It's an awesome.

[Luke Burbank]

You and I have very different Fred Schneiders.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I guess so. But, I mean, it's a. It's gotta be, like, in the top. I got every meme. I got every meme imaginable. Like, it's gotta be one of the most famous memes.

[Luke Burbank]

He destroyed us with his memes.

[Andrew Walsh]

You don't know that. It's like. It's like a kidneys. It's like an animated. It looks like it's an animated thing. It's like a clip from an animated movie. Anyway, is this art?

[Luke Burbank]

I feel like part of it is because you do a lot of stuff with, like, photography, and you're a visual person more than me. I wonder if you sometimes are getting memes that are more connected. I'm trying to Google this, by the way. Is it art, kid? Meme.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no. I'm saying art because you could put anything in there. Put butterfly meme. Just put butterfly.

[Luke Burbank]

Butterfly.

[Andrew Walsh]

And then it's the. Is it.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's anime.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, I was. I couldn't describe it well. I'm like, there's no way you.

[Luke Burbank]

I thought it was a real kid. I definitely have seen this anime guy. I don't think I really ever understood, like, the meme of asking is this. Fill in the blank. But I definitely have seen this cartoon kid and the butterfly.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I was him yesterday with Lana Del Rey album covers.

[Luke Burbank]

And I don't know why Lana Del Rey wedding choices.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, is. What's going on? I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

I was just married to, like, a gator wrestler.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, really? But she's been married. It's not in the news now or something.

[Luke Burbank]

It's never going to leave the news of my mind because it is highly, highly unusual. But keep going.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I actually want to start this kind of. I'll tell you where I landed last night. Okay, but before I do that, where are you with Lana Del Rey? What is your exposure to. Do you like? Do you dislike? Do you not care one way or the other? Do we have thoughts? Because I don't know. I don't know what the world thinks of Lana Del Rey.

[Luke Burbank]

I think the world has a lot of different thoughts about Lana Del Rey. And I think. I think when I hear. I would not describe myself as somebody who knows a ton of her music. Certainly that first. Was it Born to Die? Was that her big. Her big sort of first one out that people knew about? I definitely like. Of the songs I've heard from Lana Del Rey, I really like them. I really like that she, particularly in those early days, had this incredibly, like, specific, intentional. I'll use the most overused word of all time. Aesthetic kind of. So I am pro. Lana Del Rey as a concept, as an idea. And so that's. That's. That's all I can say about that is I don't know a lot about her, but the music that I've heard from Lana Del Rey I've thought is really good.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And for the most part, that's my experience as well. Like, I kind of don't know the backstory. I know that there's a certain kind. I think she has a certain kind of fan that is a very, very obsessive fan because she. And so I'm sort of familiar with that a little bit. And I came into some of that in my research last night, too. That was kind of funny. But also, like, what is her vibe in her look, if you listen to her, she's almost like she's got this, you know, it's a modern day but kind of female crooner sort of sensibility. Very, very sensual sounding, very sort of big. And I know that she's got like a songwriting partner and producer that she's worked with for a lot of this stuff, but I don't really know that much about her. I know that. And I'm looking up when this record came out. Y. This times out perfectly. In 2014, she released a record called Ultra Violence. I think I got that on CD because I was going through a CD phase because I was in my car a lot in Los Angeles, California, and also Lana Del Rey.

[Luke Burbank]

So a good place to be listening to Lana Del Rey.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exactly. Like this very west. She's always singing about the west coast,

[Luke Burbank]

which is funny because she's. I believe she's from New York City.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And there's a song and Went to Fordham, and there's a song on there called Brooklyn Babe that I think was my favorite song off that record. That is also very much about, like, I think a little bit of juxtaposing her west coast sensibility with the, you know, Brooklyn sensibility. So all of that is to say I enjoyed that song, but I also enjoyed it in this level that was kind of like, well, if you. She's a little silly too, right? Like, it's like. It's a little silly in how self serious. Some of it comes off.

[Luke Burbank]

Sure.

[Andrew Walsh]

But also I started thinking like. But she's kind of knowingly silly. Like, sort of like in. If you take every word as seriously as I think some parts of her fan base does, then you're kind of like, oh, well, it doesn't deserve this. That kind of pedestal treatment. You know what I mean? So anyway, I'm just going around with this stuff and I put on a record last night called which one is it specifically? Oh, yeah, Norman. So this is a Lana Del Rey record. Yeah. Earmuffs, kids. Norman fucking Rockwell is the name of the record that she released in 2019. And I was listening to. I didn't know that.

[Luke Burbank]

But that perfectly encapsulates, I think, what you're saying about the work.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. But I think. So here's the deal. If you were to listen to her and kind of based on like, what. And maybe this is just my own preconceived notions, but you would expect her always to be in like some sort of, like, sort of very. A character, but a character that would be very kind of serious. And also sort of maybe like kind of overdressed or in like some, you know, like, like a bald. Very manicured or manicured in that way. But when you look at her album covers, that is actually not it. And for this particular album cover, could you look up the album cover?

[Luke Burbank]

I'm looking at it right now.

[Andrew Walsh]

Rockwell. Right now.

[Luke Burbank]

It's very, like a lot of the Batman.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. She uses these, like, old school comic fonts. It's not comic Sans, but it looks like an old school 1960s Bam Pow kind of.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

Like, font with, like, with splashes of color around it. And it's her on a boat with, like, an American flag and her arm is around a guy. Do you know who that guy is?

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know who the guy is.

[Andrew Walsh]

Record cover yesterday, because I was trying to figure out, like, who is she? What's going on? And I really. This really ties to this art conversation. Like, what is she saying with this?

[Luke Burbank]

And did you figure out who the guy is, by the way?

[Andrew Walsh]

It's the grandson of Brando, I think. Is it?

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, wow.

[Andrew Walsh]

Wait, it's somebody. No, no, it's not. Oh, God damn it.

[Luke Burbank]

It's the grandson of some big time American actor.

[Andrew Walsh]

Ray. I'm gonna type in Lana Del Rey grandson. And hopefully it doesn't tell me who her grandson is. No, Jack Nicholson. It's Duke Nicholson is who that is.

[Luke Burbank]

That is. And I think that he's in. I think this guy is in things now. Like, he's in some.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

He was in a horror movie called Smile and the thing. We'll just keep going and then we can talk.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I'm sorry. Yeah, I. I'm sorry that I got that wrong. It's Duke Nicholson. It was at the last minute I blanked on his name, but so. But it's not. He's not part of the album. And there's something about the photo that seems very like just kind of a throwaway photo. And it turns out her sister took it. I don't think her sister's a professional photographer or anything like that. And so in a certain way, you would picture her based on, like, kind of the Persona that you hear in her songs as always being, like, sort of like very glam video game. Yes, very glam and very luxurious and everything. But her album covers kind of belie that a little bit. And I was reading a breakdown of the album covers that I thought was a little bit too dismissive and a little bit snarky because I do think that she's doing something Here. And I do think there's something about this album cover that is kind of

[Luke Burbank]

hideous that I think, but intentionally so, very intentional.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I got a little obsessed with this album cover yesterday. And it's so strange that we're on this conversation today about like, art, because I wanted somebody to tell me, I wanted somebody to explain. But instead I just found a bunch of conversation about it. And then I found myself in some Lana Del Rey subreddit from this album came out in 2019. And I think I can't. Maybe she released the photo of the album cover before the album. Maybe like a month or two before the album. And so I'm in some subreddit from this year, from 2019, I should say, from the year that it was released. And people have only heard like some of the songs and they're so excited. And this album cover came out and one person is like, I'm. I'm literally crying right now. I need this album so bad and I can't wait for it. But I don't know what she's doing with this album cover. It's so hideous. I'm literally crying. And somebody, somebody wrote underneath it, people are dying, Kim. Which I don't know, is that Internet speak.

[Luke Burbank]

I had never heard it before, but

[Andrew Walsh]

it was just so. I think they were just gently razzing this person. But it sort of spoke to like the fandom and also like what the image is of her. But then what she's trying to say about America and Americana by naming an album Norman fucking Rockwell and having and being on a boat, that implies a certain amount of wealth, but also a casual sort of, kind of casual relationship with that wealth. And then to use this really janky or not janky, but very surprising Superman font, I don't know, Batman font. So I was just like, spent way too much time yesterday looking at this album cover and looking for somebody to tell me how to feel about it.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, a couple of things. I mean, this is my constant, particularly because of my daughter's age and the stuff she's into and like when I'm hanging out with her, when, you know, she's sending me stuff like, go check these guys out. There's a, there's a, a band. I guess it's a guy, but he plays. This band is called this is Lorelei. And then he had a spin off band that he did and stuff. And like, I'm looking up, this is Lorelei. And then I'm looking up his spin off band, which I think is called like Water from My eyes. And I cannot wrap my mind around the fashion decisions of the people in the band. And what I can't understand is kind of like, you're thinking with the Lana Del Rey cover is like, is this either like such a high level of decision making and choices made around these outfits to say something, or is it a complete lack of caring, which is its own kind of thing? Which is just like, I'm not going to overthink any of this. I'm just going to wear what I want to wear because whatever. Or I'm just going to use whatever font because who cares? Like, it's. It's hard to understand. It's hard to know if things are super duper intentional and curated and thought out and therefore high art or if they're just like, somebody's like, I don't know, just use that because whatever, it looks funny to me and who cares? And the not knowing which it is, it kind of leaves you in a little bit of a, you know, in between state, I guess. It also, that particular Norman Effing Rockwell cover is I'm looking at, because, of course, and I'm sure you were on these Reddit pages yesterday, Andrew. There's all these different, like, people weighing in on all of the album covers. And there's a very clear vibe to all of her album covers except for this one, maybe with the exception of Lust for Life. Only in that Lust for Life, she's like, smiling very broadly, big old smile on her face, which is in contrast to her other album covers, where she's being very sort of like kind of, you know, I don't know, serious and staring into the camera in a certain way. But, yeah, this Norman Effing Rockwell thing is just completely like. Is just a complete departure from every other album cover that she's done.

[Andrew Walsh]

One thing that I thought was really interesting, looking at her album covers and again, and there might be references even to, you know, like self references or references to her fan base or decisions that are made that I just literally have no context for whatsoever. But I think it was her very first album cover I was looking at yesterday that I really liked a lot. Which album was that I'm looking to see here?

[Luke Burbank]

Was it Born to Die, Paradise, Ultra Violence?

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, no, it's just. It's just called Lana Del Rey. It's called Lana Del Rey, AKA

[Luke Burbank]

Lana

[Andrew Walsh]

Del Rey, AKA Lizzie Grant. So I don't know, is that her real name? For sure? I assumed that. But what I like about it is like, this, to me, does speak to. She Is. I mean, she is definitely saying something about America in her music. Like it's. And especially the west coast and, you know, Southern California specifically. But, like, she's obsessed with something. And this. Let's see, when did the first record come out? I can't tell here, but pretty early 2010, it looks like. And she's obviously a lot younger, but she's wearing like a kind of. It looks like almost like a. It looks like, almost like a letterman's jacket only. Is that a. Does it say Midas or something on it? Is it. But it's like a letterman's jacket, but she's wearing it.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, yeah, no, it's a Midas. Like. Like somebody who worked Midas Muffler's work jacket.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes, but she's wearing that over top of, like, a sparkly ball gown like she would wear to prom or something like. Oh, is that a bra? You don't think that's a gown? Is that just a bra?

[Luke Burbank]

There's another picture of it where.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, I'm only looking at the actual album cover, so I assume that was a prom dress. Okay, well, that's a little bit different then. Yeah. Okay. I was filling in prom dress there, and so I sort of thought that was sort of saying something about duality of. Of man or something, you know what I mean? But wearing a blue collar, as you pointed out to me yesterday, Luke, like, blue collar, working man's jacket over, like a very sparkly, sexy. It still is over, sparkly, sexy, dress up, glam kind of situation. And that's certainly intentional.

[Luke Burbank]

The thing that I. And I mentioned this earlier, and then I'll try to keep this short because I don't think it's not the sort of subject matter that you tend to want to weigh in on one way or the other, Andrew. And I'm not even myself trying to weigh in on it as a positive or a negative, but only as something that was truly shocking to me. So Lana Del Rey, very, as you've already pointed out, very obsessed over very beloved musician and a person of note. She goes to, like, Louisiana with, I don't know, by herself or with a group of people. She goes on an airboat swamp tour and she starts dating the guy who drives the swamp boat, who's like 15 years older than her and, like, just like a Cajun dude who I'm not thinking was in anywhere in the Reddit subreddits about the Lana Del Rey album covers and not a person of. With any kind of, like, connection to that world that she's been in, but also not even like, like, again, I'm assuming a lot about this guy and I don't, I don't know him. But just based on what I can, I think reasonably assume about this person's lived experience. Somebody that couldn't be further away from the Lana Delta, from the Lizzie Grant life. And. And then she falls in love with him and they get married and they're just married. She's just married to a swamp boat operator in Louisiana. And I find it so fascinating. Like, I'm so curious. Like, does she, is she gonna move? Does she move to Louisiana? Does he move to Los Angeles and try to run a swamp boat business there? Like, what is their life like together coming from such wildly different backgrounds?

[Andrew Walsh]

And is this something that has been in the pop culture now for years and years and you're just still obsessed with it, or is this relatively new?

[Luke Burbank]

I think they got married in 2024.

[Andrew Walsh]

Oh, okay. So. So, yeah, about. So it's been a while because I just typed in Lana Del Rey husband, and there are top stories. After being labeled a maga husband, Lana Del Rey's husband, Jerry Dufresne speaks out. So, yeah, this. I'm new to all of this. I don't like the maga implications. We'll find out. But putting the politics of that aside, I'm loving the fact that she fell in love with and married somebody outside of what? See, that's. This is. Her marriage is like one of her album covers.

[Luke Burbank]

But Andrew, my question is, is it intentional? Is it artist or does she degaff? Does she just fully degaff.

[Andrew Walsh]

Breathe? I can't breathe.

[Luke Burbank]

Too much art. It's too much art.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

We was hoping for some razzle dazzle.

[Luke Burbank]

Razzle dazzle.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

That's right, man. Razzle dazzle.

[Luke Burbank]

On your mark. On your mark.

[Andrew Walsh]

Get set, get set now. Ready, ready, go.

[Luke Burbank]

Everybody ra. All right, let's thank some dazzling donors. These are the folks that are donating a dazzling amount of dough each month. And it is absolutely vital. It's vital to TBTL existing without these fine folks and our other donors. There's. There's no show. There's no two middle aged guys speculating on Lana Del Rey album covers. You don't get that.

[Andrew Walsh]

If we don't, who will?

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you.

[Andrew Walsh]

We're the ones.

[Luke Burbank]

If not us, who? If not when? Wait, if not now, when?

[Andrew Walsh]

If not who, when?

[Luke Burbank]

Some of the listeners are saying, how about. If not no, how about don't.

[Andrew Walsh]

Maybe the show today. If not who, when?

[Luke Burbank]

Love it. If not Nick Slevy's Andrew of Stafford Springs, Connecticut. Now, here's the problem. It's Nick Sleevey's. Andrew's favorite joke. But this is Andrew. Is that because it's Nick Arms? It's Nick Arms.

[Andrew Walsh]

I believe the proper pronunciation of Nick's

[Luke Burbank]

last name is Arms.

[Andrew Walsh]

Is Arms. But I'm so confused about it.

[Luke Burbank]

And the joke was, where did the.

[Andrew Walsh]

Where does the king keep his armies in his sleeve?

[Luke Burbank]

It is Sleevies. But. The question is. But the. But I think what's been so catastrophic about that is that it's not armies, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

Not armies.

[Luke Burbank]

Armies. But I've never been able to, like, I've never been able to decouple those two concepts in my mind all these years. I know.

[Andrew Walsh]

Me too. That's why I'm always confused. And so Nick actually submitted his name

[Luke Burbank]

as Nick Sleevies, which, again, Nick, I mean, thank you for all of the love and support over the years, and I really mean that. And thank you so much for the. For the just, you know, being ride or die with this show. I mean, the perfect 10. I mean, it's right there in the name. It's the. It's the art of our time. What does that guy say?

[Andrew Walsh]

It's the necessary art of our time.

[Luke Burbank]

It's the necessary art of our time. It's the necessary Nick of our time. But don't make it more confusing by saying Nick Slevy's. This has set me back probably three years.

[Andrew Walsh]

But as long as Nick. Nick doesn't care. See, this is the thing.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that is what's great.

[Andrew Walsh]

Loves the chaos. He's like the joker. Some men just like to watch the world burn. And that is what's going on here.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, mission accomplished. Nick says, hey, dummies, shout out to Jake, the perfect daddy, whom I will be seeing this summer when my wife and I tour the Chicago and other baseball parks. At the end of this year, we'll be at 15 MLB ballparks.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's great.

[Luke Burbank]

That's awesome. I assume you're going to Comerica.

[Andrew Walsh]

Which one is Comerica?

[Luke Burbank]

That's the White Sox park or whatever they call it. Now, that would be a joke because can you imagine going to Chicago? And I say this with peace and love to Sox fans, but, like, if you're going to Chicago to see an MLB game, you got to go to Wrigley, right?

[Andrew Walsh]

I'm guessing he's going to both. He says to tour the Chicago and other baseball parks. So. Yeah, I'm guessing, but you're right. Like you don't take a pilgrimage as much too.

[Luke Burbank]

If, if you were gonna see one, you're right. He's talking about two. Andrew, we don't, we don't have. If I start, if I open this can. We're not going to get to any nun talk today. We're not going to get to any of my nonsense. I wanted to share with you, but singing. Have you. Have you heard about this absolute travesty that is potentially underway involving the Chicago Bears football team and where they are going to play Chicago Bears football?

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, they're pulling a Cleveland, right? It's going to be. Well, there's some people are. They're threatening to take it out of Chicago, right, To like a suburb area,

[Luke Burbank]

to take it to Hammond, Indiana. Not even Illinois.

[Andrew Walsh]

Wouldn't even be this now.

[Luke Burbank]

Now, technically, I mean, it's close. Listen, have I taken a car to Hammond, Indiana, when it was the closest casino to Chicago? Maybe. So it's, you know, it's probably 45 minutes away or something, 50 minutes out of the heart of Chicago, but like Soldier Field, along with just being an absolutely iconic stadium and being a stadium that I was always so impressed with what they. The last refurbishing that they did, they. They built this whole new inside of the stadium. They built all these boxes and new seats, and it's this glass that comes up from. From they sort of hermit crabbed into Soldier Field. This amazing new design, which I'm a really big fan of. I've heard that kind of architecture described as sort of Frankenstein architecture. When you've got two different architectural styles kind of at the same. I like that. Personally, I consider that to be the silver juice of architecture.

[Andrew Walsh]

I like that it's slightly slight dissonance there.

[Luke Burbank]

Slight dissonance. I really do. Like, I've just always thought that Soldier Field was one of the coolest. I've never been in it for a game, but just from the outside, because also it's right on Lake Michigan. It's right there at Millennial Park. It's like it's in, to me, the heart of Chicago. Like, I mean, it's not literally in downtown. It's not like Wrigley is in the middle of Wrigleyville, but it's still. It's such a part of the city of Chicago to me. And the idea that now everyone would have to go to Hammond, Indiana to watch the Chicago Bears play because Hammond, Indiana is willing to give the billionaire owners of the Chicago Bears a more sweetheart deal.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right. Tax break.

[Luke Burbank]

Just. It's just it just absolutely kills me. It kills me for some reason. I'm obviously making too big of a deal out of this, but.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, no, I mean, it feels like

[Luke Burbank]

part of a bigger, just like societal problem to me.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I gotta admit, I only heard people sort of chatting on the radio about this and only the back half of the conversation. So apologies for not being super read up on this. In fact, I thought it was a suburb. I didn't realize it was going to be.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, I mean, it kind of is. Just happens to be in Indiana.

[Andrew Walsh]

But I. I sort of got the impression that. And again, these owner, you know, all the owners are assholes. Right. They're just horrible. The system is.

[Luke Burbank]

Except Jody Allen.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right. Don't sell. But anyway, I got the impression that they're. They're threatening this.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Andrew Walsh]

Because they want to like, you know, go for them. They're doing that dream. They're holding them. They're holding the city over a barrel to say. Oh, you don't. I said tax breaks a moment ago. I didn't mean tax breaks. I meant they want taxpayer money to go towards the stadium. And so they're just. But. But yeah, I mean, it's. It's awful.

[Luke Burbank]

So gross.

[Andrew Walsh]

I guess it's so ugly. I just don't think that's actually ever going to happen. Right.

[Luke Burbank]

I hope that it's just posturing.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

But like some people that I like. There's a SP writer named Jeff Pearlman who I'm a really big fan of. He was at SI for years and now he just kind of has actually kind of made this whole thing on Tik Tok, which I find really interesting, which is he just tells a lot of stories about his time as a sports reporter and like run ins he had with athletes or just interesting things. And now he's expanded into kind of talking about just the state of sports in America. I follow him. And he seemed to be talking about it in a way, actually that said that it seems more than likely, which I'm hoping he's wrong about that. I'm hoping I, you know, I got misinformation on that. I'm hoping that it is just. Just one of those annoying leverage kind of, you know, sort of leveraging it, which also just bothers me. But whatever. I mean, they do have. JB Pritzker is on the case and he seems like a pretty. Pritzker. He's the governor of Illinois. He seems like a pretty like competent dude to me. Honestly, like in my knowing him, he also was a guy who he Won a million dollars playing blackjack in Vegas and had to declare it on his taxes. I mean, he's already billionaires from the Pritzker family, which is like one of the richest families in America. But he also low key, won a million dollars playing blackjack and was interviewed about it because he declared it and he was like, yeah, I just got on a run, man.

[Andrew Walsh]

Wow.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, I've never won a million dollars on blackjack, but I think it

[Andrew Walsh]

was a $5 table.

[Luke Burbank]

I think it was probably about a five dollar table.

[Andrew Walsh]

Wow, that's a lot.

[Luke Burbank]

He's really ran it up.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

But anyway, I saw Pritzker talking about it, saying that like he's, you know, he's rallying the, the, the various people. But it's just this, it's also because it's going on. Sorry to devolve into like sports, like sports franchise location talk.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, this is really up Nick's alley. No joke. Like, Nick knows a bit of this world. Right.

[Luke Burbank]

It's also going on with the Portland Trailblazers right now. And it's just like, it's just so, it just makes me so mad. You know, Portland is a town that I now really kind of love and, and have a lot of affection for from my time spent there, from the fact that, that my girlfriend works for the chamber of commerce there. And I just am rooting for Portland. And of course it's been so maligned by Trump and stuff. And like, here it is, the Trailblazers. They get sold to some guy from Texas who also owns like a hockey team in North Carolina. And they've been playing in the Moda center for the last however long. But now they're saying the team, the new owners are saying it doesn't work for them, it doesn't have enough revenue potential. And so now the city of Portland and Multnomah county, everybody is scrambling to try to figure out what are we going to do, how are we going to build this new thing? Because if we don't build the new thing, they're going to take the team somewhere else. And it's just like also the Blazers leaving Portland would be so bad for the city. It's like one of the, one of the few things that the city can point to. Like, hey, we still have an NBA team. We got a lot, a lot of tough stuff going on. But we've got this basketball team and we're proud of that. And they're a good, they've been a good team historically. You know, just like. And the fact that I don't know. The fact that it's like cities kind of have no choice. It's. You either bend the knee to these teams and their demands, or you don't get to have the team. Which is, like, kind of a worse outcome, I think, for a place like Portland. Anyway, it would be a really sad thing for them to not have the Blazers.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So I don't know. I just. I'm feeling very sensitive around the topic right now of teams holding cities hostage because it feels like. It feels like the cities have absolutely no good options in this particular negotiation.

[Andrew Walsh]

Absolutely. It's always been a problem, and it might be even on your mind more because of the situation with the Seahawks and the uncertainty of the future.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes. I mean, I didn't even like that headline yesterday. I chose not to engage, but it was like, could the Seahawks move? And I'm like, I bet you if I click on this, it's that they're not going to move. But don't. Don't put that. Don't do that to me. Seattle Times. Don't put that in the subheading. How dare you? Which brings me to Nick's second point. This year. I started the Master gardener program through UConn. Dude, Nick, read up on growing herbs, particularly dill, and then get back to me. I don't know if that's day one at the Master Gardener program, but, Andrew, I am on a mission this year. I've been threatening, I think, for the last couple of years, but I'm on a mission to, at the very least, start an herb garden, because I'm spending so much money on dill right now.

[Andrew Walsh]

Really? Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I love dill in things. And I love, you know, basil, and I like. I love rosemary. I do this thing where I'm making these fondant potatoes. Fondant potatoes. But also you throw a bunch of rosemary in there, and then the rosemary gets all, like, infused with butter and crispy because you bake it. And then I just eat that, like, a thing. And all of this stuff, I'm buying it in a little plastic box in the Safeway, and I'm like, I can grow this at my house in, like, I don't even need a garden. I could grow this in a box in my house.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, we have. I want more herbs as well. Genevieve has some, and I don't know if we just inherited this with the house or if she planted this at some point. We have a smallish sort of struggling but hanging in there. Rosemary plant, which is amazing because I do use rosemary, especially now that, you know, when the summer months come, I'll be using rosemary even more. And I love it. I was making a recipe the other night and sort of just based on stuff we had around the house, and it was such a lifesaver that I could just walk out in the yard with a pair of scissors and grab some rosemary. I would love. I would love that experience more. I have not been cooking a lot with dill. That sounds very good, though.

[Luke Burbank]

I just. Anything that. I just like the flavor of dill and anything that calls for that, when I put it in, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is. This is really. Oh, you know what? I put a bunch in. I was just making tuna the other day. That's a tuna, bro. Just. And I was like, I had some dill, and I was like, yeah, let's get this going in here. And it was, like, delicious. So the thing about rosemary, too, is once you get, like, some rosemary going, it's the bamboo of, like, that's what's driving me crazy.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's why I'm struggling. Yeah. I don't understand, like, and again, I

[Luke Burbank]

don't grow usually like a weed.

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't know the origin of this, but it's kind of like there's some brown, like, growth. Like, I don't know what to describe the stick of rosemary. What is it? What is that?

[Luke Burbank]

Sprig? It's bigger than a sprig. It seems like a really big sprig.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, but you're a really big sprig. You. You dill weed.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew Walsh]

How many insults are related to herbs? Herbs.

[Luke Burbank]

Anyway, we've thought of two.

[Andrew Walsh]

It does seem like it's struggling a little bit. And I don't know what rosemary needs as far as light and dark and moisture or whatever. So it's just a little bit weird. There's enough that I don't have to worry about running out, I don't think, because as long as it keeps generating. But it is. Something is odd about it, especially knowing that this stuff is supposed to grow, like you say, literally, like a weed. Uncontrollable.

[Luke Burbank]

So, yeah, Nick says it's an absolute blast learning about soil and everything. Gardening related. I also started a gardening account on Instagram. It's arms4roOTS. So that's a R M E S F O R roots. And would love any follows as I grow my garden throughout the year. Well, Nick, you just got a follow from me. Let me plug this in. ARMS for Roots.

[Andrew Walsh]

And I'll say it again. You said armies for roots. Or yeah, it is a R M es for roots are.

[Luke Burbank]

Here it is right now. Boom. Smash that like and follow button. Hands in the dirt, arms in the garden. You know what? That's the mnemonic device I needed, Andrew. Hands in the dirt, arms in the garden.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you for all. To all three of you for what you do to keep the show going. I'm comfortable in saying that this show has made my life that much better and made me a funnier human being. This show means the world to me and I can't wait for the 5K live show. Maybe in Connecticut. Nick wonders.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's two. Just 2027, right? That's sometime next year, right?

[Luke Burbank]

I know we've circled it. I know John circled it on the calendar. Somebody. Somebody knows when that is.

[Andrew Walsh]

I believe it's summer of 2027. So we have a little bit of

[Luke Burbank]

time and we are really already talking about in very broad terms about that stuff. So just. Yeah, we're. We're working on some stuff. I think it's going to be. It's going to be fun. It's going to be a lot to take in. For me, just mentally that we got to 5,000, but. And then Nick says if there's any time, play a random voicemail of mine because goodness knows there are a few of them. Love you guys. Do we have time for. At least. I know that Nick is, let's just say freeform with the voicemails. Do we have any that are like in on the shorter side or like, should we just play like 30 seconds of one and then actually the last

[Andrew Walsh]

one he left, which was from February 13th, is actually 33 seconds, so that'll be perfect. I don't know what's in this. I have not listened to this for real. You told me right before we started recording. It looks like Nick had this request in his. In his donor message. So, you know, if this is the one, if this is the one where Nick just starts going real blue or using some real tough language. My apologies to everybody.

[Luke Burbank]

Dunny, Nick, Connecticut, you speaking of baseball and things. Castellanos, who lives large due to the audio drop.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's Nick Castellanos that he's referencing, the baseball player. I'm going back a little bit here.

[Luke Burbank]

Who lives large due to the audio drop was released by the Phillies and that was because he was benched one

[Andrew Walsh]

day and brought a beer into the

[Luke Burbank]

dugout and had choice words with the manager. I read the article this morning in the Times and it was a really good piece and I think that would be fun for you to talk about. Just make sure I get associated producer credit.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nope, we're going to. There's a drive in a deep left field by Castellanos.

[Luke Burbank]

It will be a home run.

[Andrew Walsh]

And so that'll make it a 4 nothing ballgame.

[Luke Burbank]

I sent you this article too, Andrew. Did you ever take a look at it?

[Andrew Walsh]

No, I don't think I saw this. No.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I texted it to you a while ago because I just thought you would. I thought you'd get a kick out of it. It basically says, let me see if I can find it here. So, yeah, as Nick stated, like, so Nick Castellanos was a big kind of free agent get for the. For the Phillies. But it never quite clicked. And then eventually I think they were playing a road game that happened to be in wherever Nick Castellanos is from, maybe Florida. And he had a bunch of, like, friends and family at the game and they subbed him out at the end of the game as a defensive move, you know, like. And he was so pissed that he went and got a beer and started drinking a beer in the dugout. And. And that was. And what was interesting about it was that was when he lost his teammates. In other words, that was considered so egregious that it wasn't like the teammates weren't mad at management. The teammates were like. Like, dude, what are you doing?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Absolutely.

[Luke Burbank]

Anyway, yeah, so. So, Nick, you get. I'll split the. Well, since Andrew didn't get them, didn't get the email, I'll give. You know what? And you know, I'm sorry about that.

[Andrew Walsh]

I actually literally feel kind of bad about that. I don't know how I missed that. You think you texted that to me, huh?

[Luke Burbank]

I thought I did. I think it was right after the show. It could have been one of those things where it didn't go through.

[Andrew Walsh]

It might have been one. I mean, I will admit that sometimes you send me stuff. I'm like, if it's a video, like a TikTok or something, I'm like, oh, I'll look at that later when I'm in a quieter place or whatever. Cause I don't have earbuds in all the time. So sometimes I miss stuff like that because I forget to return back to it.

[Luke Burbank]

But I also might have emailed it from the Times and that may not have gone through. Who even knows? But the point is, Nick, here's my point in this, Nick gets full producer credit for this. Because if Nick would not have brought it up in that voicemail. I would have never revisited it with you, so. And Nick, you've also healed my relationship with Andrew.

[Andrew Walsh]

Look at that. Look at that. I do want to say to the junior sluggers, you're not bringing beer into the dugout.

[Luke Burbank]

Not even root beer? Well, not even root beer. Avante. Okay, maestro, on your mark. On your mark. Get set, get set.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now. Ready?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Ready.

[Andrew Walsh]

Go.

[Luke Burbank]

Everybody, Rattle dazzle. Hey, look who it is. It's our pal Cory Plucker in East Hampton, Massachusetts.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hey, Cory.

[Luke Burbank]

Corey's been a longtime supporter of the program and we really do appreciate it. Corey says, hi, guys. How about a little self promotion this year? Yeah, how about it, Corey? He says, yikes. I've been fortunate enough to play in an original rock band with my three closest friends since high school about 22 years now. Years ago, we were getting local rock radio play and performing regionally. But then we got real jobs and had kids. Most of the local rock radio stations converted to contemporary Christian and most of the original rock venues in our area closed. Nevertheless, we still get together every Sunday night to write and record music. And we occasionally play shows for fun. We write original heavy rock, which might give Luke the bad feeling. Corey, haven't you heard? I like stuff that gives me the bad feeling. Now that's my new deal. Yeah, I actually prefer stuff that gives me the bad feeling. Mikey looked the bad feeling, but we'd still love some tens to check us out. We're called Vining Hill and The website is vininghill.net so Vining is V I N I n G and then Hill is like Hill. Vininghill.net Our latest album is called Commit. We recorded it ourselves at our studio and I'm pretty proud of it. We're on all of the streaming platforms and band camp, if you're interested. I am the lead singer and I also play guitar.

[Andrew Walsh]

Nice. I'm on the website now.

[Luke Burbank]

That's awesome, Corey.

[Andrew Walsh]

It does spell hard rock to me. I'm looking at this. This is a. They have a new. They have the new album. Commit is out on vinyl now and peruse their other records as well.

[Luke Burbank]

I will tell you that, like the. You know, I was never in a band at all. Oh, by the way. Yeah, this. I like the COVID art of the vinyl. It's like a. It's like a pig dog surface thing on Commit. The actual cover art of the record, that's like. That's a very cool kind of like artistic rendering. Yeah, I'm. I'm guessing that that's A reference maybe to a song or to something going on with the band. I am impressed with anyone who plays, you know, whether it's cover songs or original music in a band type of setting. Because as somebody who, like, you know, I like to mess around with karaoke. Sometimes I feel like, given the right song, I can kind of, like, I can muddle through. I can. I can kind of make it sound more or less like the song I'm trying to do. But when I was in that little Wilco cover band kind of dad band thing that we were doing, which literally had no aspiration to even play really in front of people, it was just, like an excuse to kind of, like, hang out and. And like, whatever, play some chords and sing some lyrics. It is so hard, like, to make the music that you're making sound like the thing you're used to hearing coming out of the radio or on a CD or whatever it is, like, just a sound. Sing with a live band is so much harder than I thought it would be versus, like, a karaoke track. Like, there's so much about karaoke that is designed to help you, the karaoke performer, kind of seem like you're keeping up. And then when you get into the, like, the live, you know, version of that, like, I was just struck by how. How kind of thin and reedy my voice sounded, like, trying to sing over the instruments and trying to just, like. I don't know. I'm. I'm impressed.

[Andrew Walsh]

Corey, have you ever done karaoke with a live band? They do that at, like, kind of fancy events sometimes, right?

[Luke Burbank]

They do, and I've never done it, but what I have done is I have. I have performed with the Livewire house band, and it is so freaking stressful. I told you at Christmas for our Christmas show, because Elena always does a song. Elena Passarello, our announcer, she's like, a phenomenal voice, and she always does a song at Christmas time kind of as a fun thing for the audience. And, like, this year, she decided she wanted to do Blue Christmas, but she wanted me to do the Elvis part, and she was going to do the AU parts. And then it was, like, all week. I just had a pit in my stomach about having to sing with the live band. It was so, so stressful to me. But anyway, so, Corey, congratulations on the band. It's Vining Hill. Go check them out, everybody. And, Corey, thanks for supporting our. Our little show. We wouldn't be here without people like you.

[Andrew Walsh]

Hello and welcome. Welcome to Top Story.

[Luke Burbank]

All right. I already have a. I'M already concerned, Andrew, that this segment is not going to work because I'm going to try to play you some audio off of TikTok, which is notoriously impossible to do because you can't really kind of like you can't stop and pause and rewind very easily. So I'm going to have to just hit play on a TikTok that I texted myself.

[Andrew Walsh]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

And hope that you can kind of hear it when it starts. But it's two nuns talking and they are not. I guess I think of a lot of. Well, to the degree that I think about nuns, I think about them as being kind of older, sort of, you know, usually of a certain age. These are two women who appear to be in their early to mid-20s. And when I was just scrolling TikTok, I have no earthly idea why this ended up on my TikTok page. I'm not. Not particularly looking at religious content, non content. I thought it was AI, though, because it was like these two kind of young women, but they're in full habit and outfit and they're just talking. And for some reason it just showed up. They're Dominican sisters, by the way. Is the. The order. I guess you would know more about this than I do, but this is them just talking on a nun podcast. I watched it like two or three times. I just thought it was so. I don't know, kind of unexpected.

[Sister Mary Bethany or Sister Miriam]

Do you have a favorite game at the moment? My all time favorite. This is an outdoor game, but in the summers when we're all home together is playing Ultimate Fritz Sister. And you are so good at that. I'm a huge ultimate. You also are. We just need to know. You're so fast. I'm usually on defense. I'm trying to defend against people like you. I can't. Okay, full disclosure, everyone. Sister Miriam likes to chat when she plays Ultimate Princess. My secret weapon. I know. I just. I just like to put it out there. When you're out on the field and the action's far away, just strike up a conversation with. It's your secret ploy. I'm on to you. Sometimes when we play Frisbee, there's like 30 sisters on the field. Yeah. Depending on who's home. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking they don't really need me right now. You count. Have a little chat. Your defense counts.

[Luke Burbank]

I love that they call each other sisters so much. Should we start calling each other brother on this show? Would that kind of just make it easier? Brother? When you were talking about Atlanta Del Rey. Brother, like the kind of like just the, I don't know, the ease at which or with which they just kind of drop Sister as just like a catch all for each other and the other nuns and everything. Something very charming about the whole thing to me. Now I'm hoping, I don't know about the particular, I don't know what the kind of theology of this particular, you know, branch of, I guess Catholicism is or whatever. Like I'm hoping that they, it's from some TikTok feed called Open Light Media, which I think is like somebody at the convent has like started a, like a, you know, I don't know, a page and I don't really know. Again, I'm hoping that their theology is generally good. I'm hoping they're more towards the like social justice side of things and, or maybe even the Jesuits, like they're you know, seekers of knowledge and they're not like the, the really like maybe out there folks. But just hearing two sisters talking about ultimate Frisbee with each other and that. Sister, you're just so fast. And Sister, just full disclosure, Sister, you do like to talk. And then the other one being like, sister, I just like being out there with you. And sometimes I think they don't need me.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sister, I don't know if you have this info or if you said this and I didn't hear it, but I'm just googling around. It looks like, like it's Sister Mary Bethany and Sister Miriam. Okay. Did you set that up?

[Luke Burbank]

I didn't say that. Yeah, the tag on it is Sister Mary Bethany exposes Sister Miriam's on field strategy. Eyeball emoji, trophy emoji.

[Andrew Walsh]

And that strategy is talking shit apparently,

[Luke Burbank]

I guess, or just whatever. I just, it's so, you know, again, you know, I, I, I, I, I want everyone to choose their path that I guess it makes the most sense for them and that brings them the most joy in this world. It will never not be interesting to me to see somebody and I'm not weighing in on whether or not I'm co signing this for their life. I'm co signing whatever they choose for their life. But to see two people who are so kind of young and could have just chosen a much more typical path for their life. It's interesting to me, their journey to say I want my life to be completely and totally focused on this one thing. To the exclusion of having relationships with anyone in the sort of romantic sense, to the exclusion of having worldly possessions, to the exclusion of so many of the things that we all might think about a little bit in our adult life to say. What I want to do is stay in sort of quiet, prayerful rest. Rev, you know, sort of reverence for, for, for the rest of my life is, is just such an intense thing. It's, it's, it's amazing to me that

[Andrew Walsh]

anybody chooses that path in a certain way. I'm doing that with alcohol.

[Luke Burbank]

Uh huh.

[Andrew Walsh]

You know, just, just quiet like putting

[Luke Burbank]

it to the exclusion of meaningful relationships.

[Andrew Walsh]

Exclusion of meaningful relationships to the exclusion of starting a family. Just like just really focusing on one thing. So I don't know, I, I guess I'm sort of there.

[Luke Burbank]

And your dedication to it, Andrew, is. It's been lifelong, so we all thought it was a phase. We all thought it was a phase.

[Andrew Walsh]

Here's a different part of Catholicism, it turns out.

[Luke Burbank]

Here's the other piece of tape that I wanted to play that I saw on TikTok that I already, I feel like I already know how this is going to go. And I don't know when I became the Billy Bob Thornton apologist on this show. It was probably when he, he talked openly about his hat choices and a way that, that I found charming. You found very, very strategic, very cynical.

[Andrew Walsh]

I thought it was strategic.

[Luke Burbank]

He was basically, he knew what he was doing and he was trying to tell a kind of a funny, slightly self effacing story because he knew that would move more Paramount plus Landman subscriptions or whatever. So I didn't expect this. I saw a clip of Billy Bob Thornton being interviewed on the Rich Eisen show, okay. And he's talking about the late actor Robert Duvall, who by the way, we never even really got into kind of eulogizing on this show. I will admit that, like, I didn't know a ton about Robert Duvall outside of the movie the Apostle, which I really, really loved. I mean, I know that he was in the Godfather, I know he was in a lot of things, but I'm not like a, I'm just not a Robert Duvall expert other than in the movie the Apostle, that I thought was just unbelievably phenomenal. But. So this is Billy Bob Thornton talking about Robert Duvall. And what I found kind of charming about it was it was Billy Bob Thornton talking about how Robert. They were friends for years, but they never talked about acting. Robert Duvall was really obsessed with barbecue. And Billy Bob Thornton has been like a vegan for many, many years, but never wanted Robert Duvall to know he didn't eat meat because he was trying to be cool for Robert Duvall. So let's see if this works. It's another Tiktoker. So I'm gonna just hit Go on it and hope that it. That it. Let's see here. Okay, it's gonna start playing, I think. Oh, see, this one's muted. This is what I'm talking about. Yeah, you can never know.

[Andrew Walsh]

TikTok's better than Instagram on that, though.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess it's. It could. Oh, wait, hold on. Let's see here. Let's see. Get this going. Bear with me.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

He was my mentor. You know, I grew up in music. I didn't know I was going to be an actor. But, you know, there are certain things even.

[Andrew Walsh]

He always gets it in.

[Luke Burbank]

I know, I know, I know, I know. I actually. I meant to preface that. I meant to preface that. Okay, strike one.

[Andrew Walsh]

Sorry, I know that you can't stop a restart. I shouldn't have done.

[Luke Burbank]

No, we're just going to really.

[Andrew Walsh]

I was really more of a musician, but I got it. Acting later.

[Luke Burbank]

I totally meant to.

[Andrew Walsh]

You say that to Tom Petty, would you?

[Luke Burbank]

Major strike one. Okay? Major strike one. He's always got it. He always has to let us know that he just fell back ass words into acting, but that really what he is is a musician. Okay, 100 strike one against Billy Bob for that. Fair. Okay, here we go. From the top. Because I have no ability to rewind this.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

He was my mentor. You know, I grew up in music. I didn't know I was going to be an actor. But, you know, there are certain things, even before I ever, ever thought anything about being in movies that I'd seen him in, that really struck me. Bobby didn't like to talk about acting. I spent, you know, thousands of hours with this guy, and like I said, he was my mentor. I probably have acting information from him or things about his roles. About as much as you could fit in a walnut shell. He talked about meat and tango. I haven't eaten red meat in at least 25 years. Bobby was obsessed with steak and barbecue. So I. I spent these last 27, 28 years pretending that I ate meat. And. Because, I mean, he was completely obsessed. Every week, every other week, he had a new best barbecue in the world. He goes. It's like, well, I thought this place over in Fort Worth was the best.

[Luke Burbank]

No, no, no.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

This place in Virginia is the best barbecue in the world. Absolutely. So Bobby's wife, Luciana, she and I had a sort of running joke about it because If Bobby had known that I. Quinoa and stuff like that, he would have hit the roof.

[Andrew Walsh]

So

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

he loved to order for the table. So he would order these giant steaks that were for, you know, the three or four or five people. And he liked his just. Just where they would just touch it to the grill on each side. It was essentially raw. So I would just. I mean, when I was around him, when he had one of his dogs with him, I just feed it to the dog under the table when he wasn't.

[Luke Burbank]

I was going to ask, how did you dispose of the meat? How did you make it seem like you were consuming it?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

If you get him in a conversation about something he's passionate about, he wouldn't think about it.

[Andrew Walsh]

It.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

I remember we were in Boston when we were shooting the judge, and we went out to a restaurant one night because Bobby said I had to try the steak. I. I literally had a quinoa salad in front of me. Bobby looked at it and he goes, what the hell is that? I said, it's. Oh, that's just the salad. My steak's coming later, you know. Well, they brought their food and everything, and mine just never came. Because when he would get going on. On a subject he didn't pay much attention to, you know, anything else, I

[Luke Burbank]

thought maybe we'll hear some, you know, on the set stories from back in the day that he shared with you. But I. I find it fascinating that. That he didn't talk about that sort

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

of stuff and that, you know, I got stories. I've got stories I can share with you, but they're like, you know, I'll just put it this way. Bobby didn't suffer fools, you know, and so he told.

[Luke Burbank]

Anyway, I. What I. I found that to be like a kind of. I don't know. I liked that story from Billy Bob. Unless it's another example of the calculation of him wanting to rehabilitate his image after his disastrous appearance on cue many years ago.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I'm also struck by the fact that this is another Rich Eisner thing. Like, suddenly he's popping his. Rich Eisen. Right. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Because that's the show that Rob Lowe was on when he. Y. Renovated his image as well. About that. Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

Rich Eisen is really.

[Andrew Walsh]

Now, maybe.

[Luke Burbank]

Or he's in on it.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, he's like the celeb washer, Right?

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly.

[Andrew Walsh]

Like, goes there to repair their image.

[Luke Burbank]

Does everybody kind of not like you for reasons they can't go put their finger on? Send them to the fixer. Rich Eisen, he'll tee you up for a self effacing story that'll involve Luke, then playing it on the podcast.

[Andrew Walsh]

He's. He's the. Yeah, he's the wolf of.

[Luke Burbank]

There you go. Is that Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction?

[Andrew Walsh]

Which, by the way. Well, whatever.

[Luke Burbank]

Get into my critique.

[Andrew Walsh]

But I just think that whole. I've always thought that whole part of the movie, like, not just the fact that you have Quentin Tarantino in that scene sucking it up so badly and just saying the N word like crazy unnecessarily. That's all I remember the first time I saw that movie being like, what the hell is he doing there? But honestly, the whole scene about the wolf and the cleaning it up has always seemed ridiculous to me. Harvey Keitel doesn't do anything. He gives them the most basic advice, which is clean the car and get out of those bloody clothes.

[Luke Burbank]

I never thought about that. This is because Tim Roth's character has died. Is that it?

[Andrew Walsh]

No. They accidentally shoot a kid in the backseat of the car. Some kid who is like, kind of part of their gang, but he was like, kind of undercover. This is getting too complicated. But remember the scene. And I can't remember any of the characters.

[Luke Burbank]

And this is Reservoir Dogs, not Pulp Fiction.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

I always blend those together in my mind.

[Andrew Walsh]

Pulp Fiction, so. But they.

[Luke Burbank]

Wait, wait, wait. It's Pulp Fiction.

[Andrew Walsh]

Pulp Fiction. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, that was. I think Tim Roth gets shot in Reservoir Dog.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yes. Yeah, that's. And he's bleeding in the backseat, so that's. I understand that. And also, Keitel is wearing like the tuxedo in this or whatever, so you sort of have the black and white. I don't know if that's another reason why you'd get those conflated. But anyway, do you remember the. That's a Damn. He drinks the kids milk. He drinks the kids Sprite. They bust into that apartment where the young people are, and you're talking about when Samuel Jackson.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, look at the bigger Eating Kahuna burger.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, look at the big brain on Brad or whatever. And they end up killing Brad, but.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, that's who gets shot.

[Andrew Walsh]

No, there's a. There's another kid there, another young man there who's part of their team, but he's been living with Brad or he's been hanging out with Brad or something. And so now after that whole scene in the apartment, they take this young man with them and he's in the back seat and they're arguing about something mundane, but Samuel Jackson is holding his gun Carelessly and accidentally shoots. And not only, like, kill somebody accidentally who he had no intention of killing, but also creates a big mess and a problem in the back seat. And then they're like, well, how can we ever. There's only one man who can solve this. And it's just like some cranky guy who says, get rid of the bloody clothes and clean the car and then follow me to some place. I mean, you need the connections. I know they had to get rid of that car, but, like, it was just like such a set piece that I think is unnecessary for the movie.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Like that character should. If they're gonna be so kind of like the Wolf. And it's like you show up there, and he basically just says, like, take your clothes off right now. Put them in a pile on the garage. Go wait inside. And then he makes one call, and then the car's gone, the clothes are gone. Like, he didn't just. He doesn't just. He doesn't just tell you how to beat the heat by staying indoors where there's air conditioning.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right, Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

The Wolf. He's a meteorologist and he's got tips for beating the heat.

[Andrew Walsh]

I feel like he could have done all of this by making a few phone calls from the party that he left to go help these guys. I think they just really wanted the scene where he's humiliating them by hosing them down with a garden hose and.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, that happens. It's amazing how much of Pulp Fiction I've just memory holed at this point.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. I haven't watched it in a long time. I haven't watched it in a long time.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you feel like what? I'm hearing your voice, but I don't want. I don't want to. I don't want to misinterpret this, but I'm wondering about this for myself too. Are we in the midst of a slight revision in how revered we're holding Quentin Tarantino? Or maybe ever? Like, maybe you never held him in. There was a period of time where I would have said, oh, I think he's the best filmmaker of all time. And I don't even know if I even believed it. I just think guys like me said that, and I did like his movies. How do you feel about Quentin Tarantino in 2026 versus in. In 2001 or something? Something.

[Andrew Walsh]

Well, I will say this. And I've been. I have been consistent. I don't know. That's my politician voice.

[Luke Burbank]

Very good.

[Andrew Walsh]

I feel like I've been consistent about this since the movie came out. Jackie Brown remains my absolute favorite movie of his. And Jackie Brown has. I. I don't have a list in front of me, but it. It's got to be near my top five movies of all time. So I love Jackie Brown so much, and he directed that. So, like, I'm not done with Quentin Tarantino. I don't love Pulp Fiction as much as I did now. This was a movie that it had such an impact on me as it did a lot of people of our generation. Like, I saw it in the theater at least five times. Like, it just became the thing that we did on the weekends because it stayed in theaters for so long because people were obsessed with it. And me and Liza and Sean and whatever mishmash of people we could get together in the minivan would be going to the theater just to watch it again.

[Luke Burbank]

I saw that the Varsity Theater.

[Andrew Walsh]

Rip. You heard about rip, if you want

[Luke Burbank]

to talk about, like, Core Memory, you know.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Andrew Walsh]

And so, like, you know, it was such a part of that summer and one of the best summers of my life. So anyway, like, there's a reason why it is adored. And I'm not trying to be Mr. Contrarian by being like, well, actually, I remember I got into it with Mike Salk off the air one time. He thought I was just doing. Maybe it was on the air. But he basically accused me of just having an affectation for saying, I like Jackie Brown more than Pulp Fiction. As if people couldn't debate that. As if there is no argument there. It's like, Pulp Fiction is it? And again, he is like, of our generation. And I'm just sort of like, well, things do change. And when you see the context of, like, when I think about him inserting himself in that scene, like, where it was distasteful in 1994 or whatever, him using the N, like now, it just is like, I can't even imagine choking my way through that scene of him in the kitchen. Just.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, what are you trying to prove with. I remember. Yeah. Even in the day. And again, unfortunately, I guess you would say a lot of us, myself included, weren't thinking about this stuff the same way that we think about it now. I wasn't pro white people using the N word then, but I think I was not nearly as anti it as I am now. Like, for that. Like, I think probably I thought, well, I don't know. It's art. But even then I was like, does how is this improving the film? And what. What kind of a weirdo as a white Person really wants to be saying that in a movie. Like. Like, what a weird kink.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You know?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. And also in just saying his acting is so bad. I just remember always, even back then, like, it was just like, oh, what the heck. And then now even more so. And also, you know, I think it's fair to, like, as a artist. God, we're just. You and I are just like art critics today. But as an artist in the field,

[Luke Burbank]

watch out, Robert Christigal.

[Andrew Walsh]

That's right. But I think that it's hard to. It's hard to separate out the. Not even the art from the artist, which is the cliche thing to say, but even the rest of an artist's body of work, you know, I think it's totally fair to let sometimes that add some texture to how you feel about their earlier works. You sort of can see, oh, well, one thing was leading to another, and that can be good or bad or whatever. So I don't know. I'm not saying, like, oh, I'll never watch a Tarantino again. I will say his later works, it was just like, it became more and more of like, I like this scene. I like what he's doing here. I like this thing. But fewer and fewer of his movies held up all the way together, as.

[Luke Burbank]

I totally agree with you. Which is interesting if you think about, like, Paul Thomas Anderson and, like, how amazing I thought one battle after another was. And whereas, like, you know, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Tarantino. I certainly thought there were some great scenes in it, but it doesn't. I don't know what that movie was about, really. I don't know what it. I don't know what the overarching message was or really the plot. It's just a kind of a collection of. Of scenes where people are. The characters are doing something that's pretty interesting, but it's kind of like it doesn't. Yeah, you're right. I don't think it's a cohesive thing. It's almost like a Robert Altman film or something. Whereas, like, one battle after another was this taut, like, thriller. For me, that's also about larger questions. And, like, I could not. I told you I didn't want to leave the theater when it was over. That's how I felt about that movie. So it seems like it's possible for these filmmakers because I think of them as being kind of parallel a little bit, you know? And, like, I would seem to me that Paul Thomas Anderson is just getting better at this. And Tarantino also, the whole Thing about Tarantino being so mean about Paul Dano in There Will Be Blood.

[Andrew Walsh]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

Which, by the way, I don't disagree with, but I'm not Quentin Tarantino. Like, I didn't. Paul Dano's performance in There Will Be Blood didn't really work for me. But again, I wouldn't. If I was Quentin Tarantino, I wouldn't be saying that. I guess, I mean, well, I don't know. How do we.

[Andrew Walsh]

Rude.

[Luke Burbank]

It's rude. It's unnecessary. Also, I guess I also. Yeah, I guess you're right. I get. I also get annoyed when I feel like people are being not genuine. So on the one hand, I guess I. I sort of am. Like, for once, once in a while, when you hear someone just calling it, like, they see it, maybe there's something to that. But on the other hand, it's like, why don't. And also, by the way, you sucked at acting, Quentin. Yeah, if I was Paul Dano, I would just post that clip. Clip from Pulp Fiction. Yeah, just Quentin Tarantino saying the N word to just be like, should I have done it more like this?

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, that's absolutely a good point. And also, I don't like the fact that when I think about. I did really enjoy Once Upon a Time in Los Angeles. I need to go back and rewatch it, actually. But again, I feel like I'm blanking on the name of it, but the one that takes place in the Old west as well. It's kind of like you're enjoying it. You're enjoying the Hateful Eight. But then it's like at the end, oh, it's gotta be a big, super violent scene that is in a lot of cases, I guess this isn't true of the Hateful Eight. But a retelling of history that feels like, oh, you know, don't they stop the Tate murder or something at the end of Once Upon a Time in Los Angeles? Or am I thinking Hollywood? Sorry.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, yes. Basically, like, Brad Pitt's character who's, like, high out of his mind and isn't sure if they're basically the Manson people show up, up, and then his dog kills them or kills, like, actually Austin Butler, oddly enough, who then goes on to play Elvis and stuff, but who I thought was very, very good in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, he's the guy who says, I'm as real as a donut. Because Brad Pitt is trying to figure out if these are real people or not because he's stoned out of his mind.

[Andrew Walsh]

See? And. And that's the thing like Inglourious Basterds is also an alternate reality where you get revenge, where we, the audience gets. Can have fun watching, like, this feeling of, like, revenge, you know, because this is how it should, you know, watching Nazis die or whatever. And so, like, you do that once, but then when you're doing that again with the. The Tate murders and murder. I don't know, it just sort of. There are just like, moments that you love, but then you're like, oh, at the end. And I'm trying to figure out if I'm just stealing this from Lindy, but, like, just at the end of the movie, then he just takes all of his dolls and smashes them into each other.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. Like at the end of Hateful eight, the Daisy Dahmer goose. Stuff like what he. To. What's her name? Bridget Fonda, I think. Is that. Is that. Who is Daisy Dommergu?

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't think.

[Luke Burbank]

Not Bridget Fonda.

[Andrew Walsh]

I mean, I'm.

[Luke Burbank]

No, Bridget Fonda is in Jackie Brown

[Andrew Walsh]

here, but she has three names. She was in.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, Jennifer Jason Lee.

[Andrew Walsh]

Jennifer Jason Lee.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you. But just like the. Yeah, just the. To quote a Lana Del Rey album cover, the ultra violence that you just know is hanging over the movie. And at some point it'll just be just like a really gory scene. That for me, it. It rarely improves the movie for me. You just have to sort of tolerate it as part of the. As part. I did like the Kill bill. Kill Bill 1. I did like a lot too, by the way.

[Andrew Walsh]

Those. I know. I never went back and watched those because they. I saw them both in the theater, but they both. I just didn't care for them at the time. They seemed very long and bloated, and I didn't like the. Oh, now I can do it in black and white. Because I can. And I'm so beyond norms that it just. Just didn't feel cohesive to me. But. But I'm very much on the outside on that one. I've never met anybody else who doesn't really like those movies, so I might just be kind of misguided on that.

[Luke Burbank]

You know who never. You know what never lets us down? Andrew? The first game of spring training.

[Andrew Walsh]

I know. Oh, that's right. Now.

[Luke Burbank]

That's right. Do you know what is starting in 20 minutes? My guy.

[Andrew Walsh]

Get on this. Okay, listen, before we go, though, I

[Luke Burbank]

got to do something very free on Mariners tv.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, I got to figure that out, too. I gotta.

[Luke Burbank]

Cal Raleigh. Excuse me, Luke Rayleigh. Cal Rawley. I'm giving you the batting order. Luke Rayleigh, Cal Raleigh, Julio Rodriguez, Josh Naylor, Randy Arose Arena, JP Crawford, Dominic Canzone in right field.

[Andrew Walsh]

There we go.

[Luke Burbank]

Arroyo. Do I know who Arroyo is? Is Arroyo new?

[Andrew Walsh]

I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

He always had Arroyo and then Emerson at third base and somebody named Dunning is pitching for us.

[Andrew Walsh]

So Colt Emerson. That's fun. We're gonna get a look at Colt Mariners lineup today.

[Luke Burbank]

I have a feeling too, that this, that we. There will be one pass through this lineup and then. And then, yeah, most of these players will all. Will all go choose some Hubba Bubba while they put in the. The new guys. But hey, how fun to think about for. And Cal Raleigh.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Hitting second in Arizona today. I'm very, very excited.

[Andrew Walsh]

Michael Arroyo, I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

Do we know. You know a lot more about the Mariners than I do now.

[Andrew Walsh]

Must be. It must be somebody working his way through the system, huh? I'm looking this up now, but, yeah, that. That's. That's news to me. Listen, I have some important business I need to do here at the end of the show, and I don't know if this is the perfect place to do it because the person probably stopped listening a long time ago. But I would like to publicly apologize to listener error Eric, who wrote to me yesterday, disagreeing with my take on chicken wings, the chicken wing ruling, and wrote me a short, polite email saying that he disagreed, to which I replied, yeah, why should words have meaning? And it's. I was taking a nap and I just woke up and I saw. I also got a note from another person who agreed very strongly with me from the logic standpoint. But, like, cuts of meat are cuts of meat, and preparing it is preparing it in a different way. I just saw somebody disagreeing with me, and I just wrote back, yeah, why should words have meanings? And wrote nothing more than that. And so I feel sort of, oh, you want. Yeah, get. Let's give Eric a little bit of this. I didn't know it was rude.

[Luke Burbank]

It was just.

[Andrew Walsh]

It was like. I think I sent it. I shot that back to him within. Within 15 seconds of him sending it to me. I was just laying on the couch and I was just like. I fired that off. I was like, that doesn't feel good. You don't have to be mean to the listener.

[Luke Burbank]

I know that feeling, Andrew. Whether it's the listeners or other people, I will have this moment where I'm triggered. I'm generating a response, either text or email, and I know that if I wait, I won't do it, and I override it. It's not even that I'm so triggered that I don't even think about. It's that I. I don't want to give myself enough time because I know I won't send it. Which is a very weird thing to be conscious of. The fact that I'm making a bit of a mistake.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, but.

[Luke Burbank]

But then overriding the system to do it, the.

[Andrew Walsh]

The adrenaline is. You're just like, I know this is wrong. No, I am fine.

[Luke Burbank]

I am.

[Andrew Walsh]

I am this person. And then literally, like, two minutes later, you're like, I'm not that person anymore. The adrenaline. And by the way, I wasn't even angry. I was just flippant. In this case, it wasn't quite like that. I was just being flippant. I was like. But anyway, Eric, apolog.

[Luke Burbank]

Who do you think you are? I am.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah. Who do you think you are? I am so. All right,

[Luke Burbank]

This is one of my favorite Lana Del Rey songs.

[Andrew Walsh]

Yeah, she's wearing a Midas jacket for some reason.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, that's gonna do. Do it for today's episode. And in fact, that'll bring us to the end of our broadcast week. But I think you know what I'm about to say. We're going to be right back here on Monday with more imaginary radio for all of you. Much Mariner spring training to report, I'm sure. So your long national nightmare is just beginning, folks. So we'll see you then. In the meantime, thank you so much for hanging out with us all week. We'll see you on Monday. Stay safe, take care of yourself. Stay warm, which I did a medium job of in here. I'm still kind of freezing. And please remember, no mountain too tall.

[Andrew Walsh]

And good luck to all.

[Luke Burbank]

Power out.