TBTL #4668 "If Not Who, When?"
February 20, 2026
Hosts: Luke Burbank & Andrew Walsh

Episode Overview

On this Friday edition of TBTL, Luke Burbank and Andrew Walsh take listeners on a lively, meandering ride through topics ranging from art appreciation and Lana Del Rey’s album covers to the questionable aesthetics of NFL coaches and the existential peril of sports franchises moving cities. Along the way, they ponder high/low culture, discuss meme literacy, and share personal growth moments — all in the irreverent, riff-laden style familiar to TBTL fans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Art, Ambiguity, and Feeling "Off-Balance"

Summary:
Luke recounts a recent experience while working on a piece about artist Robert Therrien, challenging his own expectations about what constitutes "art." The episode’s early segment dwells on how encountering the unexpected in art (or movies/music/culture), though uncomfortable, is something to embrace rather than reject.

Highlights:

• Luke describes feeling unsure if everyday items in Therrien’s studio (“Is this a ladder or is this art?” [05:52]) were preserved intentional objects or functional tools.
• He remembers being underwhelmed by a piece at the Venice Biennale, then later learning it was painstakingly made of gold ("trap door" art that subverts expectations).
• Andrew connects this to youthful attraction to experimental music, noting that sometimes discomfort is the point:
  “I think at that time in my life, I liked something that wasn’t predictable… now some of that stuff doesn’t hit my ears the same way.” [11:13]
• Luke muses:
  "Maybe actually a feature and not a bug – the not knowing exactly how it’s going to go or how I feel about it. That’s the process." [10:33]

2. Lana Del Rey, Album Covers, and Intentionality in Aesthetics

Summary:
A deep-dive into Lana Del Rey’s public persona, music, and especially the puzzling design of her album covers — centered on "Norman Fucking Rockwell." The hosts analyze whether her apparently low-fi or "bad" choices are intentional subversion or genuine indifference, drawing parallels to their earlier art discussion.

Timestamps & Moments:

• [23:31] Andrew directs Luke to look up the "Norman Fucking Rockwell" cover, noting its comic book-style font and atypical vibe.
• [25:29] Andrew: “There’s something about this album cover that is kind of hideous, but intentionally so, very intentional.”
• They fall down a Reddit rabbit hole of fan reactions:
  "I’m literally crying right now... but I don’t know what she’s doing with this album cover, it’s so hideous."
  — with another commenter replying, "People are dying, Kim." [26:30]
• Luke draws connections to the fashion choices of indie musicians his daughter admires — is it carefully curated art or just "degaff" (don’t give a f*ck) authenticity?
• Wondering about Lana’s real-life choices mirroring this ambiguity, Luke relays his fascination with her marrying a Louisiana swamp tour guide:
  "Her marriage is like one of her album covers. But Andrew, my question is, is it intentional? Is it artist or does she degaff?" [33:41]

3. Memes, Popular Culture, and Generational Literacy

Summary:
A detour into meme literacy, focusing on the "Is this a butterfly?" meme and how the hosts’ consumption of internet culture is shaped by their own interests and what the algorithm serves them.

Notable Exchange:

• [19:09] Andrew:
  "Just put butterfly."
  Luke:
  "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s anime… I definitely have seen this cartoon kid and the butterfly."

4. Sports Franchises and the “Hostage Crisis” of Stadium Funding

Summary:
Transitioning from sports-related in-jokes into serious commentary on how cities are manipulated by wealthy sports franchise owners. Luke laments the threats to move both the Chicago Bears and the Portland Trailblazers if taxpayers don’t provide new stadiums.

Key Points:

• [39:11] “It just absolutely kills me… It feels like part of a bigger… societal problem to me.”
• Andrew draws parallels to similar leverage tactics elsewhere.
• Discussion ties back to the theme of things being lost or changed due to profit (iconic stadiums, city identity).

5. Listener Interaction and Community Bits

Dazzling Donor Segment:

• [34:02] A thank-you to donor "Nick Sleevies" (a running joke about the old armies-in-your-sleeve pun), who’s now in a Master Gardener program and has an Instagram ("arms4roots") about gardening.
  • Luke: “I’m on a mission this year… to at the very least, start an herb garden because I’m spending so much money on dill right now.” [44:31]
  • Andrew: “How many insults are related to herbs? …We’ve thought of two.” [46:36]
• Listener voicemail from Nick about Nick Castellanos’ beer-in-the-dugout incident and its aftermath [49:20].

Band Plug:

• Donor Corey Plucker promotes his band, Vining Hill (vininghill.net), with the album "Commit" — prompting reflections on the difficulty and courage involved in making and performing original music. [53:53]

6. Nun TikTok and Life Choices

Summary:
Luke shares a delightful TikTok featuring two young nuns (Sister Mary Bethany and Sister Miriam) discussing their favorite game — "Ultimate Frisbee" — and the everyday camaraderie of their lives. The hosts are charmed by their earnestness and the casual, constant use of “Sister” in conversation ("Should we start calling each other brother on this show?" [59:00]).

Notable Quotes:

• “Sister, you’re just so fast. And, Sister, just full disclosure: you do like to talk…” [59:00]
• Luke reflects on the remarkable focus and renunciation of a typical path:
  "It will never not be interesting to me to see somebody… choose a path to be completely and totally focused on this one thing." [61:54]

7. Billy Bob Thornton, Robert Duvall, and the Art of Hollywood Bullshitting

Summary:
Luke tries to "rehabilitate" Andrew’s view of Billy Bob Thornton by playing a clip of him telling an anecdote about spending years hiding his veganism from Robert Duvall because Duvall loved barbecue so much.

Memorable Exchange:

• [64:31] Andrew interrupts:
  "He always gets it in." (referring to Billy Bob’s obligatory “I was a musician first…” preamble)
• [66:29] Thornton:
  "If Bobby had known that I… quinoa and stuff, he would have hit the roof."
• [66:56] "I just feed it to the dog under the table when he wasn’t looking."

The hosts riff on the "Rich Eisen show as celebrity image rehab," with Andrew casting Eisen as “the wolf” (the fixer), and segue into a critique of Quentin Tarantino’s films and artistic decline.

8. Tarantino, Artistic Growth, and Generational Movie Hot Takes

Summary:
The last act features a considered (and rueful) reappraisal of Quentin Tarantino’s films—especially problematic elements of "Pulp Fiction" ("What a weird kink," Luke says about Tarantino's wanton use of the N-word [75:06]), the flaws of “The Wolf” scene, and a preference for "Jackie Brown" over "Pulp Fiction." Discussion expands to how time changes artistic values, and compares Tarantino’s declining cohesiveness to Paul Thomas Anderson's continued evolution as a filmmaker.

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "Maybe actually a feature and not a bug – the not knowing exactly how it’s going to go or how I feel about it. That’s the process." — Luke, [10:33]
• "There’s something about this album cover that is kind of hideous that I think, but intentionally so, very intentional." — Andrew, [25:29]
• "Is it intentional? Is it artist or does she degaff? Does she just fully degaff?" — Luke, [33:41]
• "Her marriage is like one of her album covers." — Andrew, [33:44]
• "I know what I’m describing is literally like the first day of any kind of like Art 101 or Art Criticism. So it’s kind of sad that I’m about to turn 50 and I’m figuring this out. But, you know, I guess better late than never." — Luke, [10:33]
• "Sister, you’re just so fast. And, Sister, just full disclosure: you do like to talk." — Sister Mary Bethany / Sister Miriam (via TikTok), [59:00]
• "Who do you think you are? I am." — Luke (riffing on sports meme), [84:47]
• "If not who, when?" — Andrew, [34:36] (joking on motivational slogans)
• "People are dying, Kim." — Reddit commenter (on Lana Del Rey album cover debate), [26:30]
• "He always has to let us know that he just fell back asswards into acting, but that really what he is is a musician. Okay, 100 strike one against Billy Bob for that. Fair." — Andrew, [64:48]
• "You know who never lets us down, Andrew? The first game of spring training." — Luke, [81:07]

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [05:09] – The art/life/literal gum conundrum during Luke’s visit to Robert Therrien's studio.
• [23:31] – Start of the Lana Del Rey album cover analysis.
• [34:02] – Dazzling Donors and Nick Sleevies’s ongoing herb garden saga.
• [39:11] – Chicago Bears stadium controversy & city-team politics.
• [53:53] – Band plug: Vining Hill and reflections on live music.
• [57:06] – TikTok nun segment.
• [64:17] – Billy Bob Thornton's Duvall/barbecue story.
• [72:11] – Tarantino evaluation, Jackie Brown vs. Pulp Fiction.
• [81:07] – Mariners spring training opening lineup (traditional hopeful sign-off for Seattle fans).

Overall Tone & Style

The episode is classic TBTL: playful, sprawling, thoughtful, and driven more by curiosity and rapport than by a strict agenda. Luke and Andrew comfortably veer between high- and low-brow topics, confess their own hangups and self-doubts, and invite listeners into the familiar comfort of their decades-long friendship.

Useful for New Listeners

While skipping over ads, intros, and outros, this episode is a showcase of:

• Why fans cherish Luke and Andrew for their chemistry, tangents, and unguarded vulnerability
• Pop culture and sports talk refracted through a midlife, nerdy, and self-aware lens
• A recurring theme: embracing ambiguity, whether in art, music, sports, relationships, or the dumber corners of the internet

Epilogue: The Unifying Question

"If not who, when?" — The playful, slightly broken motivational slogan that also serves as a thesis for this episode: if not these two (to speculate about Lana Del Rey, to overanalyze baseball stadium relocations, to create a podcast about being a goofball in late middle age), who? And if not now, when?