Podcast
Technically Legal - A Legal Technology and Innovation Podcast
Hosted by Percipient - Chad Main · EN
Technically Legal is a legal tech podcast exploring how technology is transforming the legal landscape. Each episode features insightful interviews with legal innovators, tech pioneers, and forward-thinking educators who are leading this change.
Our guests share their experiences and insights on how technology is reshaping legal operations, revolutionizing law firm practice, and driving the growth of innovative legal tech companies. We also explore the broader implication of technology on everyone involved in the legal system, from practitioners to clients.
The podcast is hosted by Chad Main, an attorney and founder of Percipient, a tech-enabled legal services provider. Chad launched Percipient on the belief that when technology is leveraged correctly, it makes legal teams more effective.
Technically Legal Podcast is an ABA Web 100 Best Law Podcasts Honoree.
13episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Cost, Speed and Quality - One Law Firm's Quest to Deliver All Three (Laurence Brown, Partner EIP and Head of Visser AI)
2w ago00:29:59Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Technically Legal, veteran patent lawyer Laurence Brown and Partner at the UK-based intellectual property firm EIP discusses the evolving concept of the "AI-native" law firm and how EIP is actively navigating this transition through their hybrid intelligence service, Visser AI. Laurence shares insights from his 25-year career, discussing how EIP uniquely integrates litigators and patent attorneys to provide comprehensive IP services. The core of the conversation centers on Visser AI, named after the renowned European patent attorney Derk Visser, which leverages specialist AI tools to accelerate patent drafting and prosecution. The discussion covers the shifting economics of legal billing, the transition from billable hours to fixed fees, and how AI is actively redesigning traditional, linear patent workflows. Laurence also believes AI not only delivers faster, more cost-effective results for clients without compromising quality, but also makes the day-to-day work of attorneys more engaging. Things We Talk About in this Episode Defining AI-Native: A true AI-native firm goes beyond simply prompting a frontier model; it involves fundamentally redesigning workflows to fully leverage AI technology. The Economics of AI: The efficiency gained through AI allows firms to offer competitive fixed fees, providing cost reductions for clients while maintaining law firm profitability. Redesigning Workflows: AI tools enable parallel workflows in patent drafting, such as senior attorneys structuring claims while juniors draft the description, breaking the traditional linear process. Specialist vs. Generalist AI: When it comes to complex patent law, purpose-built platforms like Patently significantly outperform general-purpose LLMs in quality and contextual understanding. European AI Regulation: The European patent industry's conservative nature has led to risk-centered AI guidelines, but the conversation is shifting toward the potential disservice of not utilizing these tools to assist clients.
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Affordable & Accessible: The Democratization of Legal Tech (Tyler Foreman VP of AI - Rocket Lawyer)
4w ago00:31:59Tap to summarizeTyler Foreman, the Vice President of AI at Rocket Lawyer, joins the show to discuss the intersection of artificial intelligence and the legal industry. Foreman shares his untraditional legal tech career path, spanning engineering at Intel, drone data analytics, and ultimately making the move to legal via contract lifecycle management (CLM) at DocuSign, before diving into his current work at Rocket Lawyer helping to provide legal resources for small-to-medium businesses and individuals. The conversation focuses on how modern generative AI and Large Language Models (LLMs) act as a legal operating system to simplify contract reviews, document drafting, and client intake, while maintaining essential connections to human attorneys.
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Building Software for Less: The Death of Expensive SaaS in the AI Era? (Nathan Wenzel - LegalOperatorAI)
May 2800:51:29Tap to summarizeWe catch up with legal tech entrepreneur Nathan Wenzel to discuss his journey from founding and exiting SimpleLegal to launching his newest venture, LegalOperator.ai (formerly Lexiomatic). Nathan shares insights on the evolution of private equity (PE) structures, the shifting economics of the enterprise software market, and how artificial intelligence is disrupting traditional software development and corporate legal operations. Key Takeaways The Reality of Private Equity: Nathan breaks down the differences between growth PE, transition PE, and dividend-focused PE, highlighting his experience with operational scaling post-acquisition. The Death of Overpriced SaaS: With AI lowering the barrier to entry for building software, traditional $100,000+ enterprise software pricing models are facing immense pressure to become lean, affordable, and transparent. The "Vibe Coding" Phenomenon: While "vibe coding" (loosely describing an app to an AI) works for quick prototypes, building enterprise-grade software still requires meticulous specifications, security infrastructure (like SOC 2 compliance), and robust edge-case testing.
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The Rise of the Legal Quants (Jamie Tso & Raymond Sun)
May 1400:34:54Tap to summarizeJamie Tso and Ray Sun, the founders of LegalQuants, discuss a fundamental shift in the legal profession: the transition from legal engineering to "legal quant" work. The conversation explores how technically fluent lawyers are using vibe coding, frontier AI models, and first-principles thinking to move beyond mere efficiency and toward the complete redesign of legal services. Jamie and Ray share their backgrounds in Big Law and their journeys into building custom legal tech tools. They delve into the origins of the LegalQuants community—an exclusive, invitation-only network of "builders"—and discuss the future of the billable hour in an era where AI can automate routine intellectual labor. Episode Highlights Jamie and Ray's origin stories: From annotating mutual fund prospectuses to early experiments with machine learning and TensorFlow. Ray's background as one of the world's first Legal Engineers and the creation of his Global AI Regulation Tracker. Defining the Legal Quant: How they differ from traditional Legal Engineers by seeking "alpha" and redesigning legal workflows from first principles. The growth of the LegalQuants community: From a small WhatsApp group to a global network of elite lawyer-builders. The "Unicorn Talent" gap: Why the next generation of elite legal work is defined by the operator, not the tool. The death of the friction-based pricing model and the future of value-based billing. Stress-testing Claude and Anthropic's Legal Plugin: Why the "ceiling" of AI utility is set by the lawyer's ability to design custom skills. Things We Talk About in this Episode LegalQuants Substack: legalquants.substack.com – Weekly digests and deep dives into legal AI strategy. Global AI Regulation Tracker: techieray.com – Ray Sun's interactive map of worldwide AI laws and policies.
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The AI Pilot is Over: Legal's Moment to Move Beyond Experiments and Avoid the Innovator's Dilemma (Sabastian Niles, President & CLO Salesforce)
Apr 3000:40:18Tap to summarizeWe welcome back Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer at Salesforce, to discuss his recent "Open Letter to Law Firms." As the legal industry hits a critical inflection point, Sabastian argues that the era of "AI theater" and small-scale pilots is over. The conversation dives deep into the Innovator's Dilemma facing law firms, the shift toward agentic AI, and how firms must reimagine their business models to remain competitive. Sabastian highlights that legal professionals are uniquely positioned to lead the charge in trusted AI transformation, provided they embrace transparency, data integration, and shared efficiency gains with their clients. Specifically, he offers four systems law firms and other service providers must establish if they want to succeed in the AI era: System of Engagement: A unified digital interface that replaces fragmented tools with seamless, real-time collaboration between firms and clients. System of Agency: An ethically governed AI framework that scales firm capacity and reimagines service delivery while maintaining strict human oversight and compliance. System of Work: A trusted, enterprise-grade platform that integrates daily professional applications into a cohesive, high-performance workflow. System of Context: A secure "single source of truth" for client data that ensures strategic counsel is grounded in history while protecting attorney-client privilege. Other Things We Talk About in this Episode The End of the Pilot Era: Moving beyond experimentation to integrated, unified AI platforms is no longer optional—it is a prerequisite for competitiveness. The Relationship Challenge: AI should be used to break down internal silos, allowing firms to bring their "tribal knowledge" and collective intelligence to every client engagement. System of Agency: A shift from manual workflows to "agentic" systems where AI agents handle triage, research, and routine queries (e.g., Salesforce's Outside Counsel Support Agent). Value-Based Evolution: Law firms must navigate the friction between the billable hour and AI-driven efficiency by focusing on superior outcomes and shared savings. Trust as Propulsion: In legal services, trust isn't just a guardrail; it's a growth lever. Mastering "Trusted Agentics" ensures human-aligned AI that respects privilege and confidentiality.
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Ayana Dow on Updating Crypto Regulation and Preserving the Freedom to Build (Senior Counsel, Defi Education Fund)
Apr 1600:36:26Tap to summarizeAyana Dow, Senior Counsel at the DeFi Education Fund (DEF) shares her unique career trajectory from Big Law and Capitol Hill to the forefront of decentralized finance policy. The discussion centers on the critical need for regulatory clarity in crypto, the distinction between decentralized protocols and centralized entities, and the ongoing efforts to educate lawmakers on blockchain technology. Key takeaways include an analysis of how current market structure bills might shift oversight to the CFTC and the importance of protecting software developers to ensure the continued innovation of DeFi systems. Episode Highlights From Big Law to D.C. Policy: Dow discusses her transition from traditional M&A and regulatory work to policy-focused roles. Experience on the Hill: Insights from Dow's time as a policy fellow for Congressman Jim Clyburn and her internship at the CFTC. The Tennis Connection: How the real-time problem-solving skills learned as a collegiate tennis player apply to navigating shifting SEC guidance. The Crypto "Genesis Block": Why the potential for financial inclusion and "debanking" issues drew Dow to the crypto industry. Mission of the DeFi Education Fund: An overview of DEF's role as a nonpartisan advocacy group focused on sound policy and judicial education. Law Firm vs. In-House Policy: The structural challenges of conducting long-term policy work within the billable hour model of a traditional law firm. Why Focus on Developers?: Understanding why the DeFi Education Fund prioritizes the protection of software developers over specific tokens or protocols. Market Structure & Regulatory Harmonization: A breakdown of recent SEC and CFTC guidance and the future of congressional legislation. The Impact of Chevron Deference: Discussion on how the removal of Chevron deference changes how agencies and judges interpret financial laws. Resources Mentioned DEF's Myth v. Fact Sheet on the BRCA (Link) A DEF blog post on the Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act of 2026 A DEF Letter to the SEC in response to Citadel Securities
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Descrybe's Quest to Democratize Legal Research (Kara Peterson & Richard DiBona)
Apr 200:38:41Tap to summarizeKara Peterson and Richard DiBona, the husband-and-wife co-founding team behind Descrybe, discuss the legal research platform they built designed to "democratize access to the law." The discussion explores the unique dynamics of married cofounders and how they are leveraging Generative AI to disrupt a landscape long dominated by high-cost legacy providers. Richard, a software engineer, and Kara, a marketing expert, share their journey from a personal legal issue to building a platform that processes over 100 billion tokens of legal data. They explain why they chose to build an AI-native system from the ground up rather than simply layering a "wrapper" over existing models—a decision that allows them to offer professional-grade tools at a fraction of the traditional cost. In this episode, they discuss: 🔷 Why legacy legal research platforms have maintained such strong moats—and how AI changes that 🔷 The difference between "wrapper" AI tools and building a system from the ground up 🔷 How their structured, multi-step reasoning process improves accuracy and reduces hallucinations 🔷 What benchmarking against the Bar Exam reveals about legal AI performance 🔷 Where Descrybe is headed as they expand their toolkit
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The Uberization of UPL? How AI Is Outpacing the Unauthorized Practice of Law (Ken Crutchfield, Bill Henderson, Jim Doppke)
Mar 1900:45:05Tap to summarizeThe legal industry is not confronting a single disruption but a redistribution of work, capital, and regulation across a system under stress. The boundaries of Unauthorized Practice of Law (UPL) in the near term may be defined more by what regulators must allow than what they restrict. These are just a couple of conclusions from author and legal business strategist Ken Crutchfield in a recent trilogy of articles he penned about the pressure artificial intelligence is placing on legal service delivery and regulations barring the unauthorized practice of law. In this episode, Ken is joined by Indiana University Mauer School of Law Professor, Bill Hendersonand ethics attorney Jim Doppke to discuss how Generative AI and Large Language Models (LLMs) are disrupting the legal industry. The conversation focuses on the shifting boundaries of UPL regulation and how technology is redistributing legal work from traditional law firms to consumers and Alternative Legal Service Providers (ALSPs). The panel explores the "Uberization" of UPL rules—where technology precedes regulation—and the tension between protecting the public from "bad" AI advice and yet leveraging these tools to bridge the massive Access to Justice gap. Things We Talk About in this Episode The ROI of AI: Significant investment in legal tech is driven by the potential to replace labor with technology, rather than just replacing older software. Defining the Line: Regulators are struggling to distinguish between providing "legal information" (permissible) and "legal advice" (restricted). The "Whole Product" Solution: While AI can generate drafts, it often lacks the "tacit knowledge" and human trust required to navigate the Byzantine court system. Regulatory Shift: Rather than banning LLMs, regulators are increasingly focused on holding individual lawyers accountable for the "wrong" use of technology (e.g., failing to verify AI-generated citations). Allied Legal Professionals (ALPs): Emerging roles, like those being piloted in Indiana, may serve as a human bridge between AI-driven tools and underserved populations. Episode Credits Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI
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From Water Pistols to Tanks: Why Data Science is the Gold Standard to Counter Class Action Fraud (Donald Beshada, CEO, Covalynt)
Mar 500:56:02Tap to summarizeDonald Beshada, former litigator turned legal tech entrepreneur and CEO of Covalynt shares his journey from big-law to the forefront of using data science in litigation. Specifically, to address systemic fraud in class action settlements. The conversation explores the evolution of claims administration—from the traditional "People Magazine" notice era to the current digital landscape dominated by targeted advertising and sophisticated fraud bots. Donald explains how his company uses data science and identity resolution to bring "scientific rigor" to ensure class action settlements reach legitimate claimants while filtering out fraudulent activity. Key Takeaways: The Shift in Fraud: How class action fraud evolved from "couponing" websites to sophisticated, non-US-based bot attacks. Defensible Clarity: Why "gut feelings" about fraud don't hold up in court, and the necessity of providing an evidentiary framework for disqualifying claims. Data Science vs. Traditional Settlement Administration: A look at how the Apple Antitrust case served as an inflection point, proving that old-school matching methods are no longer sufficient for class certification or ascertainability. The Future of Notice: Moving toward a world where data science can connect retail purchases directly to individuals, potentially eliminating the need for expensive, broad-market advertising.
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Stacking Legal Skills: How Stints at Big Law, Biz Dev and and Legal Ops Paved the Way to the C-Suite for Akshay Verma (COO, SpotDraft)
Feb 1900:37:37Tap to summarizeAkshay Verma, COO of SpotDraft explores his non-linear journey through the legal industry. From his early days as a big-law paralegal to lawyer to a business development role to leading legal operations at tech leaders like Facebook and Coinbase, Akshay shares his unique perspective on why the most successful legal departments prioritize process over technology. The conversation dives deep into the realities of Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM), the evolution of the "agentic" legal tool, and why change management is the biggest hurdle for legal innovation. Akshay also discusses the "underdog mentality" that drew him to the startup world and the future of AI in legal workflows. Key Takeaways: Process First: Technology is not a "magic pill" for broken workflows; centralized repositories and defined approval chains must come first. The Power of BD: Business development skills (evangelism and resilience) are critical for successful legal operations leaders. The "Holy Trifecta" of Legal Tech: Every department needs a CLM, a Spend Management tool (at scale), and an agentic Workflow/Intake tool. AI vs. Lawyering: AI will replace non-legal tasks, not the lawyers themselves, making AI literacy a new standard for the profession. Episode Credits Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI
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