TED Radio Hour – "Curious Stories of Coexistence"

Host: Manoush Zomorodi
Date: March 13, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, TED Radio Hour explores the nuanced theme of coexistence—how wildly different creatures, ideas, and even emotions find ways to live together. Host Manoush Zomorodi introduces three stories:

• Otters thriving in urban Singapore alongside humans
• A celebrated astrophysicist’s controversial search for extraterrestrial life among skeptical peers
• A personal journey of living with grief and joy side by side after family loss

Listeners are invited to reimagine the limits and possibilities of sharing space, both literally and metaphorically, with the "other."

Segment 1: Otters in the City—Wildlife and Humans in Singapore

00:54 – 13:14

Main Points

• Coastal Otters Thrive Downtown: Audio immerses the listener in the urban rivers of Singapore, home to Asian small-clawed and smooth-coated otters (01:02).
  • Otters form family “chains” to corral fish:

    “They herd fish with their pups...the adults are coordinating things through their vocalizations.”
    (Philip Johns, 01:53)

• Biodiversity in Hyper-Urban Environments:
  Philip Johns, biologist and geneticist, details the city’s extraordinary wildlife among modern towers:
  • Pied hornbills, flying lizards, colugos, cobras, and white-bellied sea eagles all coexist with people (03:04–03:58).
  • The juxtaposition is “incredible because it’s kind of like the juxtaposition of nature and modernity” (Philip Johns, 03:54).
• Historical Perspective:
  • Otters had disappeared mid-20th century due to water pollution during rapid modernization (06:12).
  • Singapore’s robust ecological policies cleaned waterways, making the city hospitable to otters again (Philip Johns, 06:14).
  • Now, “20 families...being an otter is pretty cool in Singapore...they’re absolutely unfazed” (07:17).
• Human–Otter Encounters & Conflict:
  • Some otters become aggressive, especially around pups or when people act irresponsibly ("running through a group of wild animals is [not] acceptable," 08:46).
  • Otters also cause issues by raiding koi ponds, sometimes causing expensive losses (09:25).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They defend territories, they defend them violently...otters get hurt sometimes, otters get killed. It’s not pleasant to watch.”
  (Philip Johns, 04:37)
• “You look on the banks and there are literally thousands, tens of thousands of people who are on their way to work...and it’s just incredibly dramatic.”
  (Philip Johns, recalling an otter skirmish, 05:06)
• “We need these personal connections...whether that connection is to otters, or to a pair of hornbills on campus, or to a bird that visits them on their balcony.”
  (Philip Johns, 10:02)
• “Nature is something that's around us and above us and beside us. And that’s true in lots of places, including in cities...Can cities be wildlife refuges?”
  (Philip Johns, 10:57)

Lessons for Urban Planners

• The importance of:
  • Accessible parks (“no one should be more than 10 minutes away from some kind of park,” 10:33)
  • Fostering everyday encounters with nature to build empathy and stewardship
  • “We can be remarkably accepting of a lot of wildlife...in many cases we can make some very modest concessions. And when we do, coexistence is certainly possible.”
    (Philip Johns, 11:40)
• Familiarity breeds empathy:

  “If familiarity breeds empathy, then I think it helps us to have more familiarity.”
  (Philip Johns, 12:53)

Segment 2: Coexistence with the Unknown—Avi Loeb’s Search for Extraterrestrial Life

14:10 – 31:50

Main Points

• Introducing Avi Loeb:

  • Renowned Harvard astrophysicist—known for his work on black holes and as director of multiple major astronomy initiatives (15:07–15:24).
  • Now, he’s pursuing “the biggest discovery in science ever made in terms of its impact on humanity”—the search for signs of alien life (15:44).

  • “One reason I search for higher intelligence in interstellar space is because I don't often find it here on Earth.” (Avi Loeb, 16:16)

• The Oumuamua Controversy:

  • In 2017, the interstellar object ‘Oumuamua was discovered—unusually fast, with no tail, and with unexplained movement (19:42–20:39).
  • Mainstream explanations: asteroid, comet, or the “dark comet” with no tail.
  • Loeb’s hypothesis: artificial origin, possible sign of alien technology (21:19).

  • “Just the suggestion that it might be artificial got me into trouble because I was not supposed to consider that possibility...How dare you even think about that?” (Avi Loeb, 21:37)

• Scientific Pushback and Public Fascination:

  • Many astronomers criticize Loeb for sensationalism
  • The public and media, however, are fascinated:

    “I got a huge amount of attention from the media, something that I was not familiar with before...Netflix is producing a documentary” (Avi Loeb, 23:39–24:11)

• The Galileo Project:

  • Loeb co-founds an observatory at Harvard to search for near-Earth objects using state-of-the-art instrumentation and AI, “searching for objects that are not familiar” (24:30).

  • “If we find an object...that does not mimic flight characteristics of known objects, we will write a paper...And at some point it would be impossible to ignore it.” (Avi Loeb, 25:22–26:03)

• Dealing with Criticism:

  • Loeb keeps a sense of humor but draws comparisons to other ambitious searches in astrophysics:

    “If you don’t want to get dirty, don’t mud wrestle. So I don’t respond to those.” (Avi Loeb, 26:45)

  • “The strongest force in academia?...It’s jealousy.” (Avi Loeb, recounting a quip to his Harvard class, 28:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence—but they are not seeking the evidence. So let’s just look around.”
  (Avi Loeb, TED stage, 18:13)
• “It would be arrogant to think otherwise, that we are alone, that we are unique and special, especially if you read the news every day. We are not the pinnacle of creation...The play is not about us.”
  (Avi Loeb, 30:20)

If We Found Proof of Alien Life?

• “When you find a partner, it changes the meaning of your existence...Just paying attention to our cosmic neighborhood will allow us to mature and realize that what we usually care about is not as important as the bigger scheme of things.”
  (Avi Loeb, 29:27)

Segment 3: Coexistence of Emotions—Laurel Brateman’s Journey Through Loss

33:13 – 49:53

Main Points

• “We really can’t have happiness without sadness...Instead of being opposites, those things are teammates.”
  (Laurel Brateman, 33:13)

• Growing Up with Dread:

  • Childhood on an avocado ranch in California, marked by her father’s chronic cancer and cycles of remission and anxiety (34:03–35:25)
  • Her father imparted both practical skills and a drive to “outfish any guy...be really good at pool,” determined to make the most of their limited time (34:39–34:55)
  • He stored away honey, hoping to leave a lasting symbol of love (35:41–35:59)

• Experiencing Loss:

  • Laurel’s father died by suicide during her late teens, after a confrontation over college applications—the mix of anger, grief, guilt (38:02–39:11)
  • Brateman excelled on paper—sports, academics, bestselling books, MIT PhD—but all achievements were motivated by a “crushing sense of guilt” (39:14–40:05)

  • “Rather than seeing them as like a parent's dreams for their child, like, I took them as a literal to do list.” (Laurel Brateman, 40:47)

• Learning to Coexist with Pain:

  • Realization, after years of overachievement and avoidance, that suppressed grief and negative feelings were muting her ability to experience joy and connection (41:01–42:07).
  • “I had learned that when a young person has a trauma, they can get stuck developmentally at that age...So I got sort of developmentally stuck in some ways at 17.” (Laurel Brateman, 42:19)
  • Real turning point: volunteering with grieving children, seeing her own story in theirs, and learning that “just because you feel guilt and shame does not mean you did something wrong” (43:49–45:06).
  • Grief and joy can exist alongside each other—“the hard things could live alongside my joy...I could let myself have a moment and then I could get right back into it” (45:39–46:49).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You cannot kill negative feelings, sadly, with work and avoidance. And mine came back with a jolt. On the outside, I was successful and thriving, and on the inside, I was anxious, terrified, and questioning my worth.”
  (Laurel Brateman, TED stage, 41:01)

• “Life is nothing except one long sushi conveyor belt of things that are going to test you and teach you at the same time.”
  (Laurel Brateman, 45:37)

• “I have this thing that I can’t add someone to my favorites list of my phone or something terrible will happen to them...It’s a daily practice where I have to live with the anxiety and the fear and somehow let my enjoyment and pleasure find a way in around it and through it.”
  (Laurel Brateman, 46:58–48:36)

• Finale: After a 2017 wildfire destroyed her childhood home, she found her father’s honey still intact—“just perfect, as if it had just been poured in the bucket yesterday...I don’t have any family photos left...but I have honey.” (49:03–49:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Otters in Singapore: Adapting Cities to Wildlife:
  01:02 – 13:14
• Alien Life and Scientific Controversy:
  14:10 – 31:50
• Living with Grief and Joy:
  33:13 – 49:53

Takeaways

• Cities can—and should—be designed with true wildlife coexistence in mind, requiring empathy born out of daily encounters with nature.
• Even in scientific communities, the coexistence of dissent and orthodoxy is a sign of intellectual health; questioning the unknown is crucial for progress.
• The hardest coexistence is sometimes inside ourselves: joy with grief, hope with fear. Learning to carry both is its own form of wisdom.

Notable Quotes

• “Nature is something that's around us and above us and beside us.” (Philip Johns, 10:57)
• “If familiarity breeds empathy, then I think it helps us to have more familiarity.” (Philip Johns, 12:53)
• “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence—but they are not seeking the evidence. So let’s just look around.” (Avi Loeb, 18:13)
• “It would be arrogant to think...that we are alone, that we are unique and special...We should be modest.” (Avi Loeb, 30:20)
• “We really can't have happiness without sadness...instead of being opposites, those things are teammates.” (Laurel Brateman, 33:13)
• “Just because you feel guilt and shame does not mean you did something wrong.” (Laurel Brateman, 45:06)
• “Life is nothing except one long sushi conveyor belt of things that are going to test you and teach you at the same time.” (Laurel Brateman, 45:37)

For more, listen to the speakers’ full TED Talks at ted.com.