TED Radio Hour – "Move fast...and fix democracy?"

Host: Manoush Zomorodi (NPR)
Date: October 31, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores how digital tools and Silicon Valley-style thinking might help restore trust in government by making basic public systems – like voting, benefits, or renewing an ID – simpler and more effective. The show features conversations with innovators aiming to modernize democracy: Bradley Tusk, champion of mobile voting, and Jennifer Pahlka, a leader in government tech reform. It also takes inspiration from Estonia, the world’s leading digital society, asking: Can the US “move fast and fix democracy”?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fixing Democracy Through Better Systems

• Theme: Instead of focusing solely on politics, improving government’s competence—making services (from voting to driver’s licenses) work better—can restore public trust and engagement in democracy.

2. Mobile Voting: The Big Experiment

a. The Problems with Old Voting Systems

• Guest: Isaac Kramer, Director of Elections, Charleston County, SC
• Problem: Overseas and military voters faced lengthy, cumbersome ballot-return processes (scanned ballots, unclear PDFs, privacy issues).
• Pilot Solution (2020): Secure ballots via phone. Voters loved it and turnout dramatically increased.

"They said, this is how we want to return our ballots. We don't like the old way. This should be streamlined for all future elections."
– Isaac Kramer, [03:40]

• Impact: Return rates jumped from 10% (old) to 55% (mobile voting).
  "Honestly, this has made elections one million percent simpler." – Kramer [04:08]

b. Bradley Tusk’s Mobile Voting Project

• Background: Political strategist and early Uber partner; now channels millions into developing secure, open-source mobile voting tech.

• Rationale:

  • Most Americans (97% under 50, 80% over 65) now use smartphones.
  • Voting is more accessible: "You do your banking, health care, and love lives on your phone. Mobile voting is the same thing." – Tusk [05:41]
  • Increased turnout can incentivize politicians to serve the mainstream, not just extremes.

• How It Works:

  • Voters verify ID with multi-factor authentication and facial recognition.
  • Ballot encrypted, anonymized, tracking number given, then printed out and mixed with other physical ballots for an extra layer of security.
  • Full transparency via open-source code: "Anyone can audit it, anyone can verify it, it's totally transparent." – Tusk [10:55]

c. Security & Political Pushback

• Security concerns: Critics (from all sides) cite hacking risks.
• Tusk’s view:
  • "Security arguments are a red herring... a lot of people like their grip on power and don't want to risk it." [12:04]
  • Progress requires not just tech fixes, but overcoming entrenched interests.

d. Lessons from Uber

• Tactics: Tusk describes victory not as bullying, but as mobilizing users to demand change:

"If you call activating voters and constituents to express their opinion bullying, then sure, I think we were guilty of that. But what did we do? We won." [18:38]

• Goal for mobile voting: Build momentum city-by-city, demonstrate proof, expand nationally.

e. Can it Really Happen?

• Skepticism:

  • Susan Sweeney, US Vote Foundation: fears mobile voting could make elections even more divisive and chaotic.

• Tusk’s retort:

  • "If we don't fundamentally change the way we vote... I don't think we will be one country in 20 years." [20:28]

• Timeline:

  • Laws must first enable mobile voting at municipal level; open-source tech releases by year’s end; test, iterate, expand.

"I have to let myself feel good about the process instead [of the result]... I always knew I wanted my life to have impact, to have meaning."
– Tusk, on sticking with moonshot projects [24:16]

3. Lessons from Healthcare.gov and More: Updating America’s Operating System

a. Big Launches, Big Glitches

• Guest: Jennifer Pahlka, ex-Deputy CTO, Obama admin; Founder, Code for America
• Healthcare.gov (2013): Overwhelmed by complexity, crashed at launch.
  • Missed chance: “You can't do a soft launch.” Actually, starting small would have served more users in the end.
  • Lesson: “If you try to serve everyone, you end up serving nobody.” [27:25]
• FAFSA (2020):
  • Another upgrade, same crash. Later fixed by a “rebel team” practicing tech industry “product model” and “lean startup” methods—testing, iterating fast, putting users first.

b. Culture Clash: Digital vs. Bureaucratic Mindset

• Government’s challenge: Not just adopting tech, but new ways of working—testing and iterating for improvement.
• Obstacles:
  • Layers of outdated procedures ("accrued cruft"), not enough flexibility.
  • Political choices create red tape—never subtract, only add.
• Example: New Jersey’s unemployment system: "7,119 pages of active UI regulations... You can't just always add to the regulations and never go back and simplify." – Pahlka [42:16]

c. Four Rules for Modernizing Government

1. Attract and retain the right people (civil service reform).
2. Freed from unnecessary procedural bloat.
3. Give them technology that actually fits the task.
4. Allow for rapid testing and iteration.

d. AI in Government

• Promise: Use AI to handle paperwork and data mining, not decision-making.
• Approach:
  • New Jersey example: 14,000 state workers trained to use AI for efficiency—not to remove “human in the loop,” but to support them.
  • "I don't think that's as scary if there's a human in the loop." – Pahlka [44:18]
• Future needs: Facing budget and staff shortages, automation will be key; must deploy wisely to keep public interest first.

e. When It Works, It Feels Like Magic

• Passport Renewal: Manoush shares a personal win—renewing her passport online was fast and painless, thanks to a modernized (and human-centered) tech effort.

"Challenging the notion that the way government has always done it is the way we need to do it today."
– Pahlka [48:26]

4. Estonia: Model of a Digital Democracy

• Guest (TED Clip): Anna Piperal, E-Governance Expert
• Context: Estonia rebuilt post-Soviet Union with no infrastructure—a “blank slate.”
• Results:
  • Digital signatures since 2002, voting online since 2005, nearly all public services digital.
  • Only three things can’t be done online: collecting IDs, getting married/divorced, selling real estate.
  • Key: Rebuilding trust via technology—focus on citizen-centric design, transparency, security (e.g., data embassies as backups).
• Memorable Quote:

“Indeed, one of the features of modern life that has no reason to exist anymore... is the labyrinth of bureaucracy.”
– Anna Piperal [50:56]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I think voter participation is key to the success of our democracy. So meeting voters where they are, I think that's a goal, right?"
  – Isaac Kramer [04:18]

• "If turnout goes from 15 up to 35 or 40, by definition, it forces [politicians] to the middle."
  – Bradley Tusk [07:25]

• "Anyone can audit it, anyone can verify it, it's totally transparent."
  – Bradley Tusk [10:55]

• "Government shouldn't exist for the benefit of the entrenched interest and the status quo... it should exist for the best interest of its constituents."
  – Bradley Tusk [18:38]

• "You can't do a soft launch. It would have been a very different experience... serve the easiest users first, then add the others."
  – Jennifer Pahlka [27:25]

• "What do you say to someone worried about moving fast and breaking things? I 100% agree that we need checks and balances. The question is: do we need 7,119 pages of them in just one program, in just one state?"
  – Jennifer Pahlka [43:00]

• "The Estonian experience is showing that technology can be the remedy for getting the trust back while creating an efficient user-centric service delivery system that actively responds to citizens’ needs."
  – Anna Piperal [51:38]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:08–04:37] Isaac Kramer describes overseas voting challenges and mobile ballot pilot
• [05:41–13:30] Bradley Tusk explains mobile voting, security, and open-source system
• [16:16–24:16] Tusk connects Uber’s disruption to voting reform; reflects on “moonshot” challenge
• [26:43–33:36] Jennifer Pahlka discusses Healthcare.gov, FAFSA, the “product model,” and bureaucracy
• [39:48–40:46] Pahlka’s “four rules” for digital government
• [43:00–45:51] Checks & balances vs. procedural bloat; using AI for efficiency
• [47:15–48:26] Personal story of online passport renewal
• [49:12–53:03] Anna Piperal on Estonia’s digital transformation and the meaning of digital trust

Overall Takeaways

• Democracy’s Survival Is About Competence, Not Just Politics: Reliable, simple, citizen-focused public systems are key to restoring trust.
• Incremental Change, Tech, and Human-Centered Design Matter: Testing, iteration, and real user feedback drive better outcomes.
• Entrenched Interests Slow Progress: Both in voting reform and bureaucracy, those who benefit from the status quo resist change.
• AI & Digital Tools Are Necessary (but Not Sufficient): The public sector must thoughtfully deploy technology, with accountability and humans in control.
• Models Exist: Estonia shows what’s possible with political will and transparent systems.

Conclusion

Modernizing democracy—whether making voting easier or upgrading digital services—requires not just technology, but also a mindset shift. Entrenched rules and interests must be overcome, but the payoff is real: increased trust, access, and engagement with government. As Anna Piperal puts it, it’s time to leave behind the “labyrinth of bureaucracy”—not just for efficiency, but for a democracy that works for everyone.