Who counts as a significant other?

Summary

TED Radio Hour: "Who Counts as a Significant Other?"

Host: Manoush Zomorodi (NPR)
Date: December 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of TED Radio Hour, hosted by Manoush Zomorodi, explores the evolving concept of "significant others." Traditionally, the term conjures up images of spouses or romantic partners, but today's episode broadens the conversation to include deep friendships, chosen families, singlehood, and even our bonds with pets. Through personal stories, expert interviews, and TED Talks, the episode challenges societal norms about love, intimacy, connection, and who truly matters most in our lives.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. The Depth and Significance of Friendship

Guest: Raina Cohen (Journalist and Author, "The Other Significant: Reimagining Life With Friendship at the Center")

• Raina’s Platonic “Soulmate”

  • Raina shares the story of meeting Em, a woman with whom she forms an intense, platonic friendship that mirrors many romantic partnerships in closeness and centrality.

    “She was leaning in, was making people laugh and I could feel the confidence from her and also lightness.”
    (Raina Cohen, 02:50)

  • Their lives become intertwined – they see each other regularly, attend office parties together, and are repeatedly mistaken for being romantically involved.

• Challenging Friendship Boundaries

  • Raina details how deep friendships are often misunderstood, with observers assuming there must be a romantic or sexual dimension.

    “People’s closest relationship would not only not be celebrated, but instead just… misunderstood. Where they were gossiped about, where they were accused of being closeted…”
    (Raina Cohen, 04:50)

• Friendship vs. Marriage

  • Raina, who is married, explains her husband supports her deep friendships, advocating for a model of partnership that welcomes other intimate connections.

    “I want people to realize that friendship can be much bigger and deeper and more significant to our lives than we've been told it can be.”
    (Raina Cohen, 05:42)

• Historical Context & Platonic Life Partnerships

  • Raina presents the history of friendship rituals (like “sworn brotherhood”) and argues that close friendships were publicly celebrated and emotionally intense in past eras.

    “In ancient Rome, friends would talk about each other as half of my soul… the kind of language we now use in romantic relationships.”
    (Raina Cohen, 07:31)

• Notable Quote:

  “If we don't limit friendship, it can be central to our lives.”
  (Raina Cohen, 08:24)

• Examples of Chosen Family

  • Raina shares diverse modern examples, such as platonic co-parents and long-term best friends supporting each other through life’s toughest crises, reinforcing friendship’s legitimacy as a primary relationship.

• On Living Situations

  • Raina describes living with her husband and two close friends, not out of necessity but by choice, envisioning a future where friends raise families side by side.

    “I feel like I get to live in a future world where you can just build a life with your friends.”
    (Raina Cohen, 12:38)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Raina recounts a friend posing as another’s wife to stay with her in the hospital, showcasing how platonic bonds push societal boundaries.

    “Joy tells the people in the hospital that she is Hannah’s wife just so that she can spend the night and be with her friend who is dying.”
    (Minoush Zomorodi, 10:59)

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2. Rethinking Partnership and Relationship Norms

Guest: Stephanie Yates Anya Buile (Marriage and Family Therapist)

• The Myth of the “One”

  • Stephanie unpacks the prevailing fantasy of a monogamous life partner as every adult’s ultimate goal.

    “The goal is to find that one person… That is definitely the expectation societally.”
    (Stephanie Yates, 17:01)

• Societal Scripts vs. Individual Needs

  • Many couples experience conflict by trying to adhere to prescribed roles (sharing everything, living together, raising kids) regardless of personal fit.
  • Stephanie gives the example of clients who can’t travel together without fighting and encourages customizing relationship norms.

    “They can't travel together because they'll kill each other... Instead of feeling bad about doing those things, just don't do them.”
    (Stephanie Yates & Manoush Zomorodi, 17:51–18:09)

• Living Apart Together

  • She describes helping a couple improve their relationship by living separately, then reuniting joyfully each weekend, highlighting that alternative arrangements can be healthier for some.

    “By the time they came back to me, I'd never seen them communicate so well. They said that they were looking forward to every weekend.”
    (Stephanie Yates, 20:22)

• No Universal “Normal”

  • Stephanie’s core advice: every couple should define partnership on their own terms, without shame or pressure from tradition.

    “There’s no such thing as normal when we’re talking about two unique individuals…”
    (Stephanie Yates, 21:15)

• Challenges and Negotiation

  • She encourages couples to question which conflicts are true dealbreakers versus logistical or value-based incompatibilities that can be solved in unconventional ways (like sleeping in separate beds).

• Memorable Quote:

  “It's okay if people are confused about your relationship. It was never theirs to understand in the first place.”
  (Stephanie Yates, 28:23)

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3. The Value and Joy of Singlehood

Guest: Dr. Bella DePaulo (Social Psychologist, Author, "Single At Heart")

• Thriving as a Single Person

  • Bella, age 71 and single by choice, debunks stereotypes around single life—arguing that being single can be a source of happiness, autonomy, and fulfillment.

    “We are happy and flourishing because we are single, not in spite of it.”
    (Bella DePaulo, 30:53)

• Countering Societal Biases

  • From fairy tales to movies, Bella notes how culture programs people to see marriage as the only path to fulfillment, ignoring positive stories of singlehood.

    “Living single was my happily ever after.”
    (Bella DePaulo, 31:48)

• Who is “Single at Heart”?

  • DePaulo defines “single at heart” people as those who genuinely prefer singlehood for the freedom it provides—not as a second-best option.
  • She offers a quiz to help listeners identify if this is their authentic identity.
    • Do you savor solitude or fear loneliness?
    • Do you prioritize personal decisions over compromise for a partner?
    • Do you value not needing to explain yourself to anyone?

    “When people told me their life stories, they said things like having time to myself is so important, it’s like breathing.”
    (Bella DePaulo, 34:19)

• Myth-busting “Loneliness Epidemic”

  • Bella argues that single people more often cultivate rich networks with friends, family, and community than coupled or married people, who can become insular.

    “The untold...story is that single people have the ones.”
    (Bella DePaulo, 41:26)

• Self-Reliance and Solitude

  • She notes the skills and comfort that come from enjoying one’s own company and challenges the narrative that being alone means being lonely.

    “Being comfortable in solitude is a wonderful and underappreciated skill.”
    (Bella DePaulo, 46:54)

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4. Human-Animal Bonds: Dogs as Significant “Others”

Guest: Elias Weiss Friedman ("The Doggist," Photographer and Author)

• The Rise of the Dog as Family

  • Elias has photographed over 50,000 dogs, documenting the profound relationships between people and their pets.

    “Dogs are furry icebreakers. If it weren’t for dogs, then how would I talk to people?”
    (Elias Weiss Friedman, 50:04)

• Why Dogs Matter More Than Ever

  • With more households choosing dogs (over 40% of U.S. homes), Elias sees dogs as both companions and emotional supports in increasingly stressful, fragmented social times.

    “They give us a sense of love and appreciation. Non-judgmentally... Dogs are the one thing we can all agree on.”
    (Elias Weiss Friedman, 50:52)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Army medic Kristen Sells shares her powerful bond with her service dog Ziggy, who helped her manage PTSD and “experience life again.”

    “His love of life. I still have my bad days, but he makes my bad days way better than they were.”
    (Kristen Sells, 53:00)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I want people to realize that friendship can be much bigger and deeper and more significant to our lives than we've been told it can be.”
  — Raina Cohen, 05:42

• “It’s okay if people are confused about your relationship. It was never theirs to understand in the first place.”
  — Stephanie Yates, 28:23

• “We are happy and flourishing because we are single, not in spite of it.”
  — Bella DePaulo, 30:53

• “Being comfortable in solitude is a wonderful and underappreciated skill.”
  — Bella DePaulo, 46:54

• “Dogs are the one thing we can all agree on.”
  — Elias Weiss Friedman, 50:52

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Key Segment Timestamps

• The Power of Platonic Friendship – Raina Cohen’s story: 02:30–14:12
• Challenging the Relationship Playbook – Stephanie Yates: 16:34–29:56
• Embracing Singlehood, Quiz, and Solitude – Bella DePaulo: 30:25–47:37
• The Dog as Significant Other – Elias Weiss Friedman: 48:17–53:38

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Episode Takeaways

• Significant others are not limited to spouses; they can be best friends, communities, oneself, or even pets.
• Relationship success is about mutual understanding and customization, not conformity to societal scripts.
• Singlehood can be a thriving, positive lifestyle for many, and does not equate to loneliness or lack.
• Meaningful connection extends beyond romance, encompassing friendship and interspecies bonds that bring purpose and joy.

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This episode reframes our approach to intimacy, connection, and belonging — inviting us to recognize, cherish, and legitimize the relationships that truly sustain us, whatever form they take.

Transcript

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[Stephanie Yates]

Our job now is to dream big.

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[Stephanie Yates]

The future we want to see around the world, to understand who we are.

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[Stephanie Yates]

We truly have to ask ourselves, like, why is it noteworthy and even change you.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I literally feel like I'm a different person. Yes. Do you feel that way? Ideas worth spreading from TED and npr. I'm Minouche Zumarodi. Today on the show, significant others who matters most to us in our lives? We start with a different kind of love story.

[Raina Cohen]

It does feel a little like a movie cliche that I spotted her across the room at a bar and I knew I wanted to talk to her just from her body language.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

This is journalist Raina Cohen. She had recently moved to D.C. when she met someone you might call her soulmate, who she refers to as Em.

[Raina Cohen]

She was leaning in, was making people laugh and I could feel the confidence from her and also lightness. And I eventually struck up conversation, had what could have been a Pickup line where I was like, you're a singer, aren't you? Because she has this voice that is melodic. Anyway, we just talked to each other very quickly and then found out we lived a five minute walk from each other.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And. And before long, the two of them were inseparable.

[Raina Cohen]

We'd see each other three, four times a week. I would stop by her house on the way to the metro when I was commuting to work. We were just really integrated into each other's lives.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

They'd hang out all the time, cook together, share stories, ideas.

[Raina Cohen]

I think I just wanted to know everything she thought kind of at all times. She just has a way of observing the world and observing human dynamics that I wanted to absorb.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

They even went to each other's office holiday parties. Reyna often caught herself mentioning M in conversation.

[Raina Cohen]

It felt very quickly like I had fallen for her in a way that felt familiar because I had fallen in love before.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Yeah. Cause when you describe that, I mean it sounds like, oh, she had charisma that you were attracted to. You guys had chemistry.

[Raina Cohen]

Yeah. But it was a platonic kind of love. It just didn't feel like what was driving the connection was something that was sexual, something that had a kind of conventional romantic relationship undertone.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I mean, part of me thinks, oh, that is so beautiful, that's so nice. You have this incredible relationship, almost like a sister, it sounds like. But it also ended up leading you on a kind of journey to write a bestselling book about connections that push the boundaries of what we typically think of as a friendship. And, and was that in part because people were confused by your friendship with Em? What prompted you to start investigating these intense platonic relationships?

[Raina Cohen]

Yeah, I wanted to find other people who had these sorts of friendships and initially I just kind of wanted to affirm them. I was upset by the idea that people's closest relationship would not only not be celebrated, but instead just. And some of the early people I spoke to felt like their friendships were completely misunderstood. Where they were gossiped about, where they were accused of being closeted, that they were actually in love with each other. And some of that happened in workplace settings. At least in the case of me and Em. We mostly, we had people being like, how do you get this? So it wasn't just they were jealous.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Of the closeness that you had?

[Raina Cohen]

Yeah, they wanted a version of it.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

We should point out that you were married, are married to a man. So what did he think about this new friendship?

[Raina Cohen]

Very happy on my behalf. I mean, he's just not a Very jealous person. And, you know, in the way that we. That the two of us think about what our ideal romantic relationship looks like, it is one where we welcome other close people into it. And so he was happy that I had, you know, just come to this new city, and I had pretty quickly found my way, in part because I had found this person who really made my life feel grounded in D.C. i want people to realize that friendship can be much bigger and deeper and more significant to our lives than we've been told it can be. And to open our imaginations when we're approaching the friendships in our own lives, to not set unnecessary limits on them.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Why do so many of us still believe that finding the one should be the goal of an adult life? Are there other options? How do we decide who to share our lives with today on the show? Our significant others? All we need from a life partner, whether that's a friend, a spouse, a dog, or no one else at all. So back to journalist Rhaina Cohen. Her book the Other Significant Reimagining Life With Friendship at the center, really struck a chord with readers.

[Raina Cohen]

I'm interested in the questions that these historical friendships raise and how they can help us stretch the boundaries of what friendship is and kind of question a little bit what we think about romantic relationships. Some of the friends that I spoke to had this friendship occupy the space that's conventionally given to a romantic partner.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Here's Raina Cohen on the TED stage.

[Raina Cohen]

Some have this kind of friendship and a romantic partner. It's not either or. As I spoke to these people, I realized that they were at the frontier of friendship, helping us imagine how much more we could ask of our Platonic relationships, which is true. But another way of looking at it is they were doing something retro, even ancient. In ancient Rome, friends would talk about each other as half of my soul or the greater part of my soul, the kind of language we now use in romantic relationships. From China to Jordan to England, there was a practice called sworn brotherhood, where male friends would go through a ritual that would turn them into brothers. About a century ago, friends would sit for portraits like these, with their arms wrapped around each other, their bodies up close. What I took from this history is that if we don't limit friendship, it can be central to our lives. And so for me, looking at sworn brotherhood provokes questions about why we think about friendship the way we do now, where it is basically disposable, where you think of it as maybe temporary, or it's something that you stuff to the side of Life where what we see in friendships throughout history is that they were publicly recognized in ceremonies like with sworn brotherhood, where some of the most intense emotions that we think of only as existing in romantic relationships, in fact existed in friendships.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I mean, a lot of people would say, like, well, when you find that person who you can, you know, tell everything to you, marry them. That's what marriage is.

[Raina Cohen]

It's a very historically recent idea. I mean, like we're talking last like 50, 60 years. The idea that your spouse should be your best friend is it's a beautiful thing to have elements of friendship within a spousal relationship, that marriage isn't just pragmatic, but that you can find somebody who really knows you in your depths. But, you know, I don't think there's just one person who can know you in that way. And I think it's great to be able to have, you know, something wonderful or hard in your life and to feel like there is more than one person you can call and more than one person who can support you. And I think that's a very different mentality that can make it possible to have sustained friendships throughout the kind of challenges and seasons of our life. And the kinds of friends that I spoke to, they don't just have a weekly phone call. They're friends like these. Natasha and Linda are the first legally recognized platonic co parents in Canada. Joe and John have been best friends for many decades. When Joe was struggling with alcohol and drug use, John got him into recovery. And then John decided that to support his friend, he would also become sober. Joy took care of her friend Hannah during Hannah's six year battle with ovarian cancer. And that included flying out to New York where Hannah got specialized treatment. Joy had trouble actually sleeping overnight in the hospital because she was too busy watching to make sure her friend's chest was still rising and falling.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

There's a moment that you describe where Joy tells the people in the hospital that she is Hannah's wife just so that she can spend the night and be with her friend who is dying. And we should be clear. It's not like Hannah didn't have a family, she has a husband. But there's a moment where you also say that Hannah's husband and her mom were at the hospital a ton and Joy was home taking care of the kids. It just felt like, wow, how great to have another loving adult on the scene to help in a terrible crisis for this family.

[Raina Cohen]

I think so many people want more support in their lives and when things go wrong, it is not just, you know, emotional support that you can get from someone who is by your bedside when you're in the hospital, but also that you have another set of hands to help at home. Or I mean, there's a moment where it is Joy and Hannah's mother who are trying to make a decision jointly about whether to have an ambulance come. And they were able to kind of make that really hard decision together. I mean, I still, like, think about Joy saying that after Hannah died, like she can't believe the world still spins when she's not here and talked about Hannah as a soulmate. And so I wanted to help people understand how significant a loss can be in a friendship. And then, you know, connected to that is how little it's recognized and how that makes the grief worse.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So keeping all this in mind, what is your living situation right now?

[Raina Cohen]

I live with my husband and also two of our closest friends. I think what's surprising to people is not just that we're living with friends, but that it's not for cost saving. We've done it because we've chosen to. I feel like I get to live in a future world where you can just build a life with your friends. I live not only with my husband, but also two of my closest friends. It didn't take long for us to start scheming with about a half dozen other friends about trying to buy property together, the kind of place where we could raise kids alongside one another. Our working title for the places, the Village. I don't know if this will work out. I can keep you posted about it, but if it does, I feel really confident about one thing, that if one of us has a migraine at 6am and there's a toddler bouncing around or we get a terrifying diagnosis, we will not be a lonely person calling out only for no one to answer. And this is what I hope for all of us, that we feel like we have permission to share our lives with whoever we are lucky enough to find, whether that's a spouse, a sibling, or a house full of friends. Thank you.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

That was journalist and NPR producer Raina Cohen. Her book is called the Other Significant Reimagining Life With Friendship at the center. You can see her full [e-mail] on the show today are significant others. I'm Anoosh Zamarodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from npr. We'll be right back.

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[Minouche Zamorodi]

It's the TED Radio Hour from npr. I'm Minouche Zumarodi. On the show today, significant others. And when we say that phrase, we're usually referring to a spouse or life partner.

[Stephanie Yates]

Most people, even if they're not in a committed relationship, have fantasies or hopes of one day being in a monogamous relationship.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

This is Stephanie Yates, Anya Built. She is a marriage and family therapist.

[Stephanie Yates]

The goal is to find that one person to live with them, to build a family with them. That is definitely the expectation societally. And when someone starts dating someone, we're asking, oh, do you think it's late too? Do you think they might be the one? Do you think that you all would, you know, you might get married one day.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And of course, if you do find a partner, there are a slew of norms and assumptions that come along for the ride together. These partners are supposed to share a bank account, vacation together, maybe own a home, have kids.

[Stephanie Yates]

How you should function as a wife, how you should function as a husband.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

But what if doing those things causes problems? Does that mean you aren't married to the right person?

[Stephanie Yates]

I have a couple where they can't travel together.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

What do you mean they can't travel together?

[Stephanie Yates]

They can't travel together because they'll kill each other. They came back from a trip. And I'm not joking, they were talking about getting a divorce.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So Stephanie says, instead of feeling bad about doing those things, just don't do them.

[Stephanie Yates]

I have so many people that I'll see, especially in individual therapy where they are harboring so much guilt because they don't cook and that's what they saw their mom doing or I don't know how to build, and that's what I saw somebody doing. Instead of just accepting that, you know, our expectations may be outdated and they might not work for us. When we compare ourselves to societal norms, we can develop a sense of resentment toward our partner as well as a sense of shame for how we ourselves are.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Coming up short, here's Stephanie Yates. Anyabwile on the TED stage.

[Stephanie Yates]

Now, before we really get into this, I have to say that some of us have to reckon with the fact that we may be with the wrong person. And that will be clear. If your deepest desire is that your partner change fundamental aspects of who they are, you really want them to be a different person. But if you're confident that you're with the right person and you just still feel frustrated and dissatisfied, we may find that rejecting everything we've known about good relationships is the key to actually having one. I work with couples every day and I help them through relational crises. I remember I was working with an engaged couple for about a year. They were struggling to make a blended family work. One partner had kids, the other one had never lived with kids before. And they moved in together after only knowing each other for three months. One time I went on vacation and by the time I got back, they'd called off their wedding.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

But why?

[Stephanie Yates]

Their love was honestly, it was evident and they were not cruel to each other. Their issue was figuring out how to continue building their romantic relationship while also figuring out how to raise teenagers who, to be honest, already had two very involved parents. They weren't really in need of a third. After a particularly big blow up over chores and responsibilities, I finally asked a dangerous question. I said, do you think that living together has hurt or helped your relationship more? We took a few weeks to explore that question and they decided to test it out. They got a short term lease on an apartment nearby for the partner who didn't have kids. And we were really strategic. We made a contract, let's talk about dates, let's talk about expectations while you guys are living separately. And by the time they came back to me, I'd never seen them communicate so well. They said that they were looking forward to Every weekend that they got to spend together, it felt like a vacation because they would spend the entire week planning their time together and savoring every moment they had together. They also found that their individual relationships with the kids drastically improved without the pressure of trying to transition them into an entirely new household dynamic, especially when they only had a couple years left in the house. So at this point, some of you may be asking yourselves, what kind of couples therapist recommends that couples live apart? That's a fair question. And to be honest, for a majority of my clients, this solution would not work. And that is the point. There's no such thing as normal when we're talking about two unique individuals with their own backgrounds and their own values.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So when a couple comes into your office, what are some of the common issues they have? Is it, you know, we're worried that we're not compatible or we're arguing, or where does it go wrong with the significant other?

[Stephanie Yates]

Yeah. Vast majority of my couples come in, and they say, we're having issues with communication. However, usually through couples therapy, we can identify more specific issues or lifestyle factors that are making it almost impossible to communicate about what you're actually needing.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

What do you mean, lifestyle factors?

[Stephanie Yates]

So if you have, let's say, a difference in values. For example, if you're in a relationship and your partner is like, I'm having a hard time sleeping with you, and you hear that and you personalize that, you internalize it, you feel rejected. You feel like your partner is saying that they'd rather be sleeping with someone else. But what they're saying is that they've went 18, 20, 25 years having a bed to themselves, and now they're sharing a bed with someone who might sleep very differently than they do. They might have someone who moves a lot or needs all the COVID or prefers it cooler or hotter. Small things where it's hard to talk about, what could we do about that? And so sometimes, you know, I'll throw out a suggestion like, well, is it absolutely necessary, based on your values, to share a bed with your partner every night? Do you need to be in the same room? Do you need to be in the same house? You know, allowing yourselves to really consider alternatives to what you've always seen on TV or what you saw your parents do? Or really, a lot of times, the thing that we're competing with is the fantasy in our mind about what a relationship should look like.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So what do you think you're giving couples? Are you just sort of saying, like, why are you making a big deal out of something that really is more like a logistics problem, are you giving them permission to stop getting in the way of their own happiness?

[Stephanie Yates]

In some ways, sure. Sometimes it's permission, and sometimes also it's just floating. The idea of, you know, your relationship seems really hard. I don't think your relationship should be that hard. You know, there are so many factors where we're trying to squeeze ourselves into something that doesn't work. And so I'll just ask them, you know, do you think this is worth your relationship? Because that's what's at stake here. There are some things we could test out, and I always bring it up as an experiment. Let's just do an experiment. Let's see how this works. If we try this for a month, for two months, and you're still in the same position, maybe there's something bigger happening that we need to talk about. But in the off chance that we really are just arguing about the dishes or we really are just arguing about your bedroom, if we fix that, can your relationship be easy again? And a lot of the time, I see that it really can be. One conflict that comes up a lot in my work is the difference in values between arriving on time and arriving looking and feeling your best. Neither one is wrong. But I had a great model for this with my parents when I was growing up. We drove absolutely everywhere separately. You know, if you're going to be a little bit late, you arrive with my mom, and if you're arriving on time, you go with my dad. They had two minivans for only two kids. Okay. We didn't go anywhere together. And one time when I was about 12 years old, one of my closest friends finally worked up the courage to ask me about it. And I could tell she was so nervous. Like, I was about to reveal to her that my parents were secretly separated, and she just figured it out. You know, now that I think about it, I bet her mom put her up to this. What's interesting is that her parents did go on to get divorced, and my parents stayed together for 23 years before my mom passed away. Now, do I think that's due to them commuting separately? Of course not. But I think it shows us two things. First, it shows us that any deviation from the norm can be met with curiosity and even judgment. It also shows us that sometimes when we decide to do things a little differently, we can avoid the difference between having a really challenging day as a couple or a smooth day by simply accepting our differences, not as a couple, but as individuals.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

This Speaks to what you were saying earlier about people thinking that their relationships are quote, unquote, hard. But if you remove the thing that's making it hard, it can go back to being easy.

[Stephanie Yates]

Yeah. So sometimes you have more serious discussions. And I would consider children to be. That's a bigger discussion. So I have a couple who. They both were very motivated to have children. And so they went through a round of ivf, and it looked extremely promising, but in the end, they ended up having no viable embryos. Now, during that time, she had so much pain during that process, her hormones were out of whack, and she was really at a point where she's like, I've made peace with the fact that I don't want. I can live without having kids. Like, I don't have to have kids. I don't have to adopt. I don't have to go through the surrogacy route. Like, I'm happy in our marriage. And her partner was very, very reluctant. So they kind of came to me to talk through this, you know, really to assess, like, can we make this relationship work? It really became clear that he felt like he was letting his parents down. You know, he's the only child. So some of it was just accepting that this is not your grief to carry. You know, this is grief that you're feeling on behalf of your parents, who, if they understood the situation, probably would be understanding. And even if they aren't, you know, this is your marriage, your relationship. So come to find out, they were on the same page. They were trying to have kids for the sake of other people. If it would have been easy, they would have been great parents. But with the level of stress that it was putting on them individually and in the relationship, it just really wasn't worth it. Instead of trying to change our partners, what if we instead embraced their differences?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

There's a line in your talk that people loved and I really loved. And you said, it's okay if people are confused about your relationship.

[Stephanie Yates]

It's okay if people are confused about your relationship. It was never theirs to understand in the first place. You know, it's so funny. That was a very late addition to the talk. So I was very surprised by the response to that. But that is the truth. A lot of times, we are so much more consumed with what people think about our relationship. People we haven't even met. You know, we're worried about how people are going to perceive things. You know, it doesn't matter If I invested 20 years into my relationship looking one way. If we decide that we want to do things a little differently now, that's okay. We we have grown. We've evolved as people and we want to explore something new. We want to keep growing and doing it on our terms. If we continue to accept the narrative that relationships are hard, then we'll continue to do nothing about it. If our relationships feel hard, I encourage us to reflect on what is hard about it. Is it really the relationship or is it external factors like our own personal trauma histories or work stress? If it really is your relationship, let's really think about what you and your partner are willing to do differently, to enjoy it again. I want us to reject everything we've ever known about relationships and challenge ourselves to create a relationship that not only defies expectations, but honors the peculiarities that make us us. Thank you.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

That was Stephanie Yates Anya Buile. She is a marriage and family therapist. You can find her on her YouTube channel and watch her full [e-mail]. On the show today. Significant others we have talked about spouses and friends. But what if the most significant person in your life is yourself?

[Bella DePaulo]

I'm Bella DePaulo. I'm 71 years old. I have always been single and I always will be. And for the past several decades of my life, I have not only lived single, but I also study single people.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Bella depaolo is a social psychologist and one of the leading experts on single life. She has published countless books, studies, surveys, and articles on the subject.

[Bella DePaulo]

I write about what it means to be single in ways that reimagine single life from the stereotypes of how we're all sad and lonely and want nothing more than to un single ourselves to what I have discovered in my life and so many other people like me. We love being single. We are happy and flourishing because we are single, not in spite of it.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Despite all the research she's done, Bella says she still needs to defend her findings that people who live alone can do so by choice. Here she is on the TED stage.

[Bella DePaulo]

Even now, I keep getting reminded, get married and you will live happily ever after and you will never be lonely again. As children, we hear those stories in fairy tales. As grown ups, we keep hearing them in all the novels and movies and TV shows that build up to a wedding. But here's the thing that was never my story. I never wanted to get married. Living single was my happily ever after. But for the longest time, I never heard of such a thing as living single and loving it. Positive, affirming stories about single life would have resonated with me all those years ago. But those stories have never been part of our lives the way fairy tales have. I've made it my life's work to find the true stories of single life, stories no one is ever telling us.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And you are still doing a lot of research, right? About these people who you call single at heart?

[Bella DePaulo]

Yes, people who are single not as a default because they were unlucky in love or they just didn't find anyone, but instead they are powerfully drawn to single life for what it offers them, the freedom and the autonomy and the opportunity to be true to yourself if that's who you really are. I've gotten hundreds of emails and handwritten letters and social media contacts from single people and they told me that they never realized until they came across my writings that that wasn't something bad that could be a good thing to like being single. It didn't mean they were weird or abnormal or unhappy.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

For people who know they are single at heart, Bella says her research has been a real validation. But if you're wondering whether you are suited for the single life you, she has a quiz for you. Question number one?

[Bella DePaulo]

Sure. The first one is when you think about spending time alone, what thought comes to mind first? Is it, ah, sweet solitude or oh no, I might be lonely? In the quiz, 98% of people who are clearly single at heart say that they value their solitude. When people told me their life stories, they said things like having time to myself is so important, it's like breathing.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

When we come back, more with Bella DePaolo and her single at Heart quiz on the show today. Significant others. I'm Minouche Zumarodi and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from npr. Stay with us.

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[Minouche Zamorodi]

Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

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[Minouche Zamorodi]

This message comes from Intuit TurboTax with TurboTax Expert. Full service match with a dedicated expert who will do your taxes for you from start to finish, getting you every dollar you deserve. It's that easy. Visit turbotax.com to match with an expert today. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. It's the TED Radio Hour from npr. I'm Anoush Zumarodi. On the show today, Significant Others, and we were just talking to social psychologist Bella Depaulo. She is an expert on people who she calls single at heart, and she has a quiz you can take to see if that's you.

[Bella DePaulo]

When you are thinking about making a big change in your life, such as embarking on a new career or moving across the country, do you prefer making the decision with a partner, even if that means you do not pursue your favorite option? Or do you prefer making the decision that feels right to you without worrying about whether a partner would approve or whether your decision might stand in the way of a partner's goals? And 96% of the people who are clearly single at heart say that they want to make the decision that feels right to them. Okay.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And then there might be some people who say, like, well, clearly these people haven't learned the art of compromise and that's why they're single. That's what being in a relationship is, is that you work together to figure out a path.

[Bella DePaulo]

Yeah, but no one gets through life without compromising. You compromise with your friends, you have to compromise at work. So this idea that, oh, only married people have the skill of compromising, that's not true.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Fair enough. Let's keep going. I'm loving this. What's the next one?

[Bella DePaulo]

When you have had some minor mishaps, such as a fender bender, how do you feel? Either you would be relieved not to have to explain to anyone why you messed up, or you would want to have a partner to go home to and tell all about it. And most people who are single at heart don't want to have to explain to anyone why they messed up.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I guess for me, like, my husband has a shoulder to cry on, but he also deals with our insurance, Right.

[Bella DePaulo]

I will concede that there are things I miss not having a partner. So I would love to have someone who took care of my card or someone who fix my computer when it misbehaved, or who swooped in and cleaned up the dishes after dinner. But then I'd want them to leave.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

It's funny, the most recent statistics say that over a quarter, nearly a third of households are single person households. And when people usually say that, they say, these are people who are living alone. And it's almost like in the tone that they say it, yes, more and more people are living alone. Yes.

[Bella DePaulo]

And what they seem to say often explicitly, right after that is, that's why we have a loneliness epidemic. And the irony of that is that it may be the people who are single for a long time, especially the single at heart, who are least likely to end up alone. When psychologists actually started studying the real lives of single people, they found it's the single people who have more friends. It's the single people who are doing more than married people to stay in touch with their siblings. It's the single people who are more often tending to their parents, exchanging help with their neighbors, and contributing to the life of their towns and cities. In contrast, when couples move in together or when they get married, they tend to be more insular, and they tend to do that even if they don't have kids. So they can't blame it on the kids. So the story we're told is that married people have the one. The untold, more refined, revealing story is that single people have the ones.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

How do we know? Because I think there are some people who, yes, the most important person in their lives maybe is themselves, and they're very committed to living a single life. But maybe for people who it just didn't happen for them that they would like to potentially be paired up with someone.

[Bella DePaulo]

Right. If you look at single people in general, not just the single at heart, what you find is that women take to single life better than men do. They are more likely to be good at maintaining friendships. They are actually more likely to value having some time to themselves right now. If you look at people who are having a hard time being single, it often includes older men who have previously been married and they have gotten used to having a wife who makes sure they have a social life and makes sure there's food on the table and all the rest of it.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Okay, let's go on to the next question, which is about indulgences.

[Bella DePaulo]

All right. When you are tempted to allow yourself your favorite indulgence, such as eating junk food or watching trashy tv, how do you feel? Either delighted to do exactly as you wish with no one else around, or you prefer to have a spouse at your side either to join you in your sloth or badger you to exert more self control. And the single at heart are delighted to do exactly as we wish. What you hear most often is that it only goes one direction, that married couples help each other to stay healthy and do the right thing, when in fact, it could go either way.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

That's interesting because I had always heard that research had shown that people who were married had longer lives. Longer and healthier lives, yes.

[Bella DePaulo]

So if you look at the kinds of reports you will see in the media, they'll say, oh, married people have better blood pressure or whatever their metric is. But they only look at the people who are currently married, compare them to the people who are single and say, oh, look, married people win. But they're ignoring the people who got married and then got divorced and not because marriage was making them so healthy and happy.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I can only guess that there are some people listening who think, well, you know, Bella's cherry picking the data to make her case about singledom because she's an advocate. She speaks for the other people who are happy to be single as well. But I think what you're also saying is that the data we're using to back up marriage or claims of loneliness epidemics are also cherry picking in some way or defining health by, I guess, assumptions of what is good in society.

[Bella DePaulo]

Yes. What we think we know about single people is very much biased by what social scientists have chosen to study. So for example, they have chosen to study loneliness, but only recently are they also studying solitude. And if we looked at people's comfort with being alone, that would change things.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Hmm. Okay, so let's go to the last question about what happens when you go to bed at night.

[Bella DePaulo]

Let's see. Think about the possibility that when you go to sleep at night, there might not be anyone else in bed with you. How does that make you feel? And the people who are single at heart mostly say they are fine with that. In fact, some of them fused about it, saying how much they love getting to sleep in their own bed with no one else in it.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I. I mean, not to be morbid, but the chances of someone who is partnered ending up in a bed alone are I guess 50, 50 in some ways.

[Bella DePaulo]

Right. So if you marry, you have these options. You could end up divorced, you could end up widowed, or you could be the one who dies first. And in fact, some people say no matter who is beside you, you always take that last step on your own.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Do you feel that in some ways you're doing a service to people in that if you can take the fear out of being alone, I feel like that's what I hear all the time, is like, oh, well, I just don't want them to end up lonely, to end up all alone when they're old, like, by themselves. That is the number one thing I hear from people like, well, I just don't want her to be alone when she's older.

[Bella DePaulo]

Yes. One thing that would save us from feeling so lonely is if we were more comfortable in solitude. And maybe we should. We shouldn't be worried so much about the people who spend time alone and love their time alone. And we should be more worried about the people who can't be alone, because being comfortable in solitude is a wonderful and underappreciated skill.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

That was Bella Depaolo. Her new book is called Single at the Power, Freedom and Heart Fulfilling Joy of Single Life. You can see her [e-mail] so this hour has been about significant others, our closest human companions. But what about man's best friend? I have to admit that I was never a dog lover until a few years ago when I finally capitulated and got my kids a pup. But that pup decided that I was her special person. And now I finally understand why dog owners are so passionate about their canine friends.

[Raina Cohen]

This is all I need in life.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And the love they give them, it's unconditional.

[Bella DePaulo]

Right?

[Announcer]

Right. Ru?

[Stephanie Yates]

Yeah.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

What would you say, like, your favorite thing about having a dog is?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

The other day I spent an afternoon with a TED speaker who has made a name for himself documenting dogs.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Yeah, that's good.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

And the humans who love them.

[Raina Cohen]

Ru, are you gonna be famous? He's like this famous. Bring treats.

[Announcer]

Yeah, I could get down with this fame thing.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Elias Weiss Friedman is known as the Doggist to his over 7 million followers on Instagram, where he posts photos of dogs he meets on the streets.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Black lab walking that way.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Since he started doing this over a decade ago, Elias has taken pictures of over 50,000 dogs.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Excuse me. Excuse me. May I take a photo of your dog? May I take a photo of your dog? Take a quick picture of your corgi before he jumps in the car. Yes.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

In certain Neighborhoods in New York City. People recognize him.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

You know who I am.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

But he has become the slow, soothing voice of dog lovers everywhere.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Ziggy's also been patient.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Even people who don't recognize him are thrilled to talk about their beloved doggo.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Personality quirks about him.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

People like Jason and Lauren Schneider. He's an aggressive kisser. He will pin you down on the couch and not stop.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

He's extremely loving.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

You would say yes. After a quick chat with their humans, the doggist gets down to business, making all kinds of noises to get Dash's attention. And the shot that will get them both thousands of likes and comments.

[Stephanie Yates]

Comments.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Oh, my God, he's so cute.

[Raina Cohen]

Look at those lashes.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So 50,000 photos that you've taken of dogs. Do you, do you ever feel surprised by what people tell you about why they love their dogs so much?

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

The stories can be a little bit surprising and funny. Like they were like, he ate a hundred dollar bill and pooped it out intact. You're just sort of like, even if a person were to do it, you would never tell that story. But because it's a dog, we just have this candid openness that we can just be funny and share these things and revel in it. And I feel like dogs are furry icebreakers. If it weren't for dogs, then how would I talk to people?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

So I read this crazy statistic that over 40% of US households now have a dog and that that number, the number of households that has doubled over the last 30 years. What is it that you think people need? Why do they want a dog in their life so much?

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

People are having children later, and so dogs are like a bridge to children or a test. Also, I think we recognize that we're in a stressful time. Things are very divisive politically, and dogs don't have any of that baggage. And they give us a sense of love and appreciation. Non judgmentally. I feel like on Instagram, scrolling through your feed, everything either makes you jealous, upset, stressed out. And I think my project, the Doggus, was to try and be an antidote to that, where it's like sharing pictures of dogs. I'm spreading joy and it's non polarizing. Dogs are the one thing we can all agree on. But yeah, enough about me. You showed me a picture of your dog Lotte, who's Havanese, kind of a rare breed.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Yeah.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

How has Lottie changed your life?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Well, my kids joke that we're turning into the same person, human dog, that we are turning into the same thing, which I think is true. I think she's made me nicer, actually.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Do you remember the person you were before Lottie?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I mean, I didn't have all those tummy rubs in my life and like the soulful looking into my eyes and just feeling very understood. No offense to husband, children, parents, siblings, humans in my life. But she's got my number and it's a, it's almost disconcerting in some ways, but also just so great to come home to. At the end of the day.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

There's something a little bit more pure about your dog's relationship. You can't stay mad at them. They cut through all of your self consciousness and apprehension and doubt and they just run in head first.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

You know that disarming sincerity is what makes dogs so easy to connect to. But their support and companionship can also save lives, especially for people with service dogs. Elias interviewed Kristen Sells, a veteran medic in the US Army.

[Raina Cohen]

I'll cry if I talk about him too much.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

He saved my life. And he met her service dog, Ziggy, a black lab who helped Kristen through her ptsd.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

In what ways do you think he's saved your life?

[Raina Cohen]

I mean, his love of life. I still have my bad days, but he makes my bad days way better than they were. I love his eyes.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

That's what I noticed about him as well. Was it like intimidating when you were trying to decide whether or not to reach out for for a service dog?

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Absolutely.

[Raina Cohen]

I thought other people needed one more than me.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

People that had gone through worse things.

[Raina Cohen]

When I was on more medications than I could remember to take decided like.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

This is too much time to give myself help. I lived for years just getting up.

[Raina Cohen]

And going through the motions and now.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

I feel again this amazing dog.

[Raina Cohen]

I'm experiencing life again.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

Thank you for your service.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Thank you.

[Elias Weiss Friedman]

And thank you for sharing your beautiful service dog.

[Minouche Zamorodi]

Elias Weiss Friedman is the Doggist. You can find him on Instagram and see him on the ted [e-mail] his book is this Dog will change your life. Thank you so much for listening to the show this week and for listening all throughout the past year. We are so grateful. If you like what you've been hearing, get something out of it. Want something more different? Email [e-mail] we read every message. We love hearing from you. This episode was produced by Katie Monteleone, James Delahousy, Harsha Nahada and Fiona Guerin. It was edited by Sanaz Meshkinpour, James Dilahusi and me. Our production staff at NPR also includes Rachel Faulkner White and Matthew Cloutier. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Our audio engineers were Tiffany, Vera Castro, Jimmy Keeley, Zoe Vangenhoven, Patrick Murray and Robert Rodriguez. Our theme music was written by Ramtin Arablouei. Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Roxanne Hylash, Alejandra Salazar and Daniela Balaurezzo. I'm Manouch Zumarotti, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from npr.

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