A journalist's trick for talking to people you can't stand | Joshua Johnson

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

TED Talks Daily – "A journalist's trick for talking to people you can’t stand"
Guest: Joshua Johnson | Host: Elise Hu
Release Date: August 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features journalist and radio host Joshua Johnson sharing his counterintuitive wisdom for navigating conversations with people whose views you can’t stand. Drawing on over two decades of moderating tough interviews, Johnson advocates for a shift from traditional journalistic "neutrality" to a more vulnerable—and productive—objectivity, challenging listeners to move closer to those they disagree with in order to truly understand them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Limitations of “Neutrality”

• Joshua’s Experience with Neutrality:
  Joshua describes how being trained in “neutrality”—suppressing your opinions and emotions—helped him earn a reputation for fairness, but created distance in difficult conversations, particularly when topics felt personal.
  • “My neutrality allowed me to interrogate his beliefs, but the distance prevented me from seeing why he believed them.” — Joshua Johnson [01:26], [05:36]
• Missed Opportunities:
  He recounts interviewing a descendant of Confederate soldiers and focusing on arguments instead of understanding the person, realizing after the fact that he had missed a chance for real connection and insight.

2. Moving From Neutrality to Objectivity

• Not the Same Thing:
  Joshua distinguishes neutrality (denying your opinions) from objectivity (temporarily putting opinions aside to learn without judgment).
  • “Objectivity is just when you park your emotions and learn without judgment. I don’t have to like it. I’m just here to learn from it. Neutrality negates your opinions, as if you have no judgments.” — Joshua Johnson [06:38]
  • “Notice I said park your opinions. When you park your car, you don’t abandon it in the garage. You’re coming back for it.” — Joshua Johnson [06:58]
• Vulnerability & Openness:
  True objectivity requires vulnerability—for your own opinions to be challenged, or even changed. That’s what opens possibility in a conversation.
  • “That vulnerability is a sign of openness, and a conversation that’s not open is pointless.” — Joshua Johnson [07:43]

3. The Power of Getting Closer Instead of Distancing

• Move Toward the Difficult, Not Away:
  • “The trick is to go somewhere I know you’d rather not: be closer. Distance makes things worse. ... Move closer. Not to embrace them, but to explore them. Like a doctor studying a sample. You need a microscope, not a telescope.” — Joshua Johnson [05:24], [05:44]
• Medical School Insight:
  As a teenager in a hospital program, Johnson observed that specialists don’t have to like the “diseases” they study, but they examine them up close to understand—modeling how to study toxic ideas similarly.

4. Making Real Human Connections (Even With People You Dislike)

• Listening for Humanity:
  Johnson describes interviewing a former Baltimore police officer turned police reform advocate, and recognizing trauma hidden within the man’s anger. By acknowledging it, even briefly, Johnson uncovered genuine self-doubt and vulnerability.
  • “He said, ‘I put people in prison cells who are better people than me.’ Whoa. ... In that moment ... his defenses dropped and he shifted from being right to being real.” — Joshua Johnson [08:17], [08:27]

5. Practical Tips for Tough Conversations

• 1. Get the Story:
  Focus on the person’s journey, especially turning points—how did they come to their beliefs, not just what do they believe?

  • “What someone believes is not as important as how they chose to believe it.” — Joshua Johnson [09:21]

• 2. Keep Your Questions Short:
  Questions should be under 10 seconds; keep them direct to avoid sounding like a setup or rambling.

  • “Keep your questions short—10 seconds tops.” — Joshua Johnson [09:32]

• 3. Use Your Mental Microscope:
  Study the person closely, as you would a scientific sample. Aim to understand, not agree.

  • “Look as closely as you can. Remember, you don’t have to like it, but learn from it.” — Joshua Johnson [09:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Idiots are everywhere. Some people drive you right up the wall with their opinions, their attitudes, their politics.” — Joshua Johnson [05:08]

• “You could learn a lot from an idiot, especially if you resolve never to act like one.” — Joshua Johnson [10:30]

• [On opinions]: “Does anyone here honestly believe I have no opinions on race right now?” — Joshua Johnson [06:51]

• “If you can stay open, amazing things can happen.” — Joshua Johnson [07:49]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:29-01:26 — Setting up the challenge of talking to “problematic” people
• 05:08-06:38 — Experience with neutrality, real-life examples of distance in interviews
• 06:38-07:43 — Distinction between neutrality and objectivity; advice on vulnerability
• 08:12-08:35 — Story of the Baltimore police officer; the transformative power of real engagement
• 09:13-10:13 — Three practical tips for listeners
• 10:25-10:40 — Closing thoughts on learning from people you can’t stand

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Conclusion

Joshua Johnson encourages listeners to overcome polarization by moving closer—literally and figuratively—to those they vehemently disagree with. By choosing curiosity over distance and objectivity over sterile neutrality, we make space for real understanding and maybe even change. Guided by empathy and practical interviewing strategies, his approach offers hope for building bridges—even with people you can’t stand.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. Journalist and radio host Joshua Johnson has conducted hundreds of interviews, so he has learned quite a bit about how to talk to all kinds of people. Today, he has a piece of advice that might sound completely backwards for dealing with the people whose politics or values you might not agree with.

[B]

When you consider someone problematic, there's a better way to deal with them. Keep your sanity and maybe even connect and it sounds insane. Move closer, not to embrace them, but to explore them. Like a doctor studying a sample, you need a microscope, not a telescope.

[A]

In this talk, Joshua makes the case for closing the distance with the people you can't stand, not to agree with them, but to understand how they came to believe what they believe. Like many journalists, myself included, Joshua has spent more than 20 years moderating tough conversations. He hosted the national talk show 1A on NPR, and he's trained in the art of neutrality. Johnson talks about how we're taught to park our opinions, flatten our emotions, and just get through the interview without rolling our eyes. For him, this worked for a long time, until he realized the distance it created was quietly costing something.

[B]

My neutrality allowed me to interrogate his beliefs, but the distance prevented me from seeing why he believed them. What if I had asked better questions like who influenced you the most? Informing these views? Getting his story might have shown me him behind his canned arguments.

[A]

Joshua makes the case for flipping the script on the old journalist principle. He draws a sharp line between neutrality, which he says is really just pretending you have no opinions, and and something he finds far more useful and far more vulnerable at a time when polarization is on the rise. It's coming up right after a short break. This episode is sponsored by Kohler Smart Toilets. The objects we interact with most are often the ones we notice least. But what if the most overlooked space in your home could be the most considered? Kohler Smart Toilet challenges that assumption. Their Vail Smart Toilet is a sculptural silhouette that isn't just intentional. It's a philosophy that design changes everything. The kohlervale Smart Toilet is sleek with a rounded shape that's more like architecture than just plumbing. And it goes beyond looks. The touchscreen controls and customizable cleansing features offer a level of comfort and cleanliness that exceeds expectations. It's all about elevating those ordinary daily rituals into something extraordinary through thoughtful design. Kohler has been pushing these boundaries for over 150 years, mastering that balance of stunning form and high performance function. That's a long time to get it right and it shows in every detail. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find out [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Dell. Back to school starts now. Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core so you can work from anywhere now starting at $699 with exclusive student pricing cert starting at 599. And it's lightweight, portable and packed with enough processing power to make multitasking a breeze. So say goodbye to distractions and hello to more free time because you finished your work faster, complete your setup with savings on select monitors and more. Must have electronics and accessories, limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you at Dell.com deals that's Dell.com/deals. This episode is sponsored by Defender. Summer is on its way, and now is the time to start planning your next great outdoor adventure. If you're setting your sights on higher peaks, deeper rivers and bigger dreams, embrace the impossible with Defender. Built with legendary capability and tested on some of the most difficult terrain, Defender brings the toughness you need in a vehicle to take you to faraway places with the comfort and smart tech that makes the journey feel luxurious. Choose between the sleek two door Defender 90, the purposeful Defender 110, or the Defender 130 with seating up to eight people. For bigger expeditions, Defender's robust materials mean you can adventure without compromise, and innovative driving aids like Clearsight technology help you view the world around you in powerful new ways. With the available three models, you have the potential for up to 89 cubic feet of cargo space this summer. Adventure with Confidence Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com and now our Ted Talk of the Day.

[B]

Idiots are everywhere. Some people drive you right up the wall with their opinions, their attitudes, their politics. I dealt with all kinds of people in my 20 plus years as a broadcast journalist. Eventually, I found moderating tough conversations with whatever kind of difficult people you just thought of. Kind of simple to do. Not easy, but simple. The trick is to go somewhere I know you'd rather not be closer. Distance makes things worse. I came up in public radio, trained by old school journalists who taught me the art of neutrality. You neutralize your opinions, deaden your emotions, and you can get through most conversations without rolling your eyes. Generally it worked, and it built me a strong reputation for fairness. But when the subject matter felt personal, neutrality felt phony. I used to host a national Talk show on NPR called 1A, and in one of our early programs, I interviewed a descendant of Confederate Confederate soldiers. He argued that Confederate monuments should be historically preserved. Now, as a black man, I felt enormous pressure to remain neutral. So I decided I was just going to focus on his arguments instead of on him. His logic felt kind of flimsy, and I called him on it and eventually he just folded and he said, it really doesn't matter what I say. And the moment he said that, I knew I had failed. I may have had a point, but I missed a huge opportunity to really do my job. See, my neutrality allowed me to interrogate his beliefs, but the distance prevented me from seeing why he believed them. What if I had asked better questions, like who influenced you the most in forming these views? Or suppose we let all of these monuments and statues stand just as they are. What would that mean to you? Getting his story might have shown me him behind his canned arguments. Grilling him changed nothing. It felt pointless. When you consider someone problematic, there's a better way to deal with them. Keep your sanity and maybe even connect. And it sounds insane. Move closer. Not to embrace them, but to explore them. Like a doctor studying a sample. You need a microscope, not a telescope. Doctors actually helped me learn this way before I became a journalist. As a teenager, I was part of a summer program for future doctors. Clearly it worked. And I found myself working with clinicians studying cancer and thrombosis and hiv, very serious conditions. I kind of naively expected them to be these crusading scientists, but they were just level headed people doing their jobs. But there was a lesson in that level headedness. See, I am not neutral about the cancers in our world. Bigotry, hoaxes, political violence. I want them gone. However, as a journalist, I often had to deal with them in my clinic, on the air. I survived it by getting as close to those problems as I could and studying them like samples in a petri dish. In other words, I had to shift from neutrality to objectivity. And no, they're not the same. Objectivity is just when you park your emotions and learn without judgment. I don't have to like it. I'm just here to learn from it. Neutrality negates your opinions, as if you have no judgments. Does anyone here honestly believe I have no opinions on race right now? Notice I said park your opinions. When you park your car, you don't abandon it in the garage. You're coming back for it. So you can choose when to focus inward on what you think or outward on what you can learn. Of course, Sometimes your car ain't where you left it, and maybe your opinions will move, too. That maybe is why objectivity feels so vulnerable. That's why it works. That vulnerability is a sign of openness, and a conversation that's not open is pointless. But if you can stay open, amazing things can happen. Another time on npr, I was interviewing a former Baltimore police officer who had become this fiery advocate for law enforcement reform. And he was going on and on, just a long rant in autopilot, just. And I was trying to stay objective and listening as best I could when I thought I heard his voice waver just a little. And in that waiver, I detected more than his rage. It sounded like trauma. So near the end of the interview, I mentioned hesitantly that he seemed traumatized by his experiences as a cop. And could he reflect on that? He said, I put people in prison cells who are better people than me. Whoa. Sure enough, he went right back to his talking points. But it didn't matter, because in that moment, that sliver of his story, his defenses dropped and he shifted from being right to being real. Look, some people are just difficult, but we can deal with them more simply. Here are three tips to get you started. First, get the story, particularly the key decisions and the turning points. What someone believes is not as important as how they chose to believe it. Second, my NPR host pro tip. Keep your questions short, 10 seconds tops. Long questions can feel like a setup or like you're rambling. And third, use that mental microscope. Look as closely as you can. Remember, you don't have to like it, but learn from is time to reconnect, even to the people you can't stand. But this time, we're gonna make those connections count. You could learn a lot from an idiot, especially if you resolve never to act like one. I really appreciate y' all making time for me today. Thank you for listening. Bye, everybody.

[A]

That was Joshua Johnson speaking at TED 2026. If you're curious about TED's curation, visit Ted.comCurationGuidelines and that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is a podcast from ted. This episode was fact checked by the TED research team and produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Lucy Little, Emma Tobner, and Tanzika Sangmarnival. Additional support from Daniela Balaurazo, Christopher Faizy Bogan, Valentina Bohanini, Banban Chang, Brian Greene, and Lainey Lott. Learn more at Podcasts. I am Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by Kohler Smart Toilets. The objects we interact with most are often the ones we notice least. But what if the most overlooked space in your home could be the most considered? Kohler Smart Toilet challenges that assumption. Their Vail Smart Toilet is a sculptural silhouette that isn't just intentional, it's a philosophy that design changes everything. The kohlervale Smart Toilet is sleek with a rounded shape that's more like architecture than just plumbing. And it goes beyond looks. The touchscreen controls and customizable cleansing features offer a level of comfort and cleanliness that exceeds expectations. It's all about elevating those ordinary daily rituals into something extraordinary through thoughtful design. Kohler has been pushing these boundaries for over 150 years, mastering that balance of stunning form and high performance function that's a long time to get it right and it shows in every detail. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find out [e-mail]

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