Podcast Summary: TED Talks Daily

Episode Title: How can creativity help us heal? A doctor and a cartoonist answer | Amy Baxter and Navid Mahdavian
Release Date: June 7, 2025
Host: TED (Elise Hu)

Introduction to the Conversation

In this compelling episode of TED Talks Daily, hosted by Elise Hu, cartoonist Navid Mahdavian and physician Amy Baxter engage in an insightful dialogue exploring the intersection of creativity and healing. The conversation delves into how storytelling through art and innovative medical approaches can facilitate personal and emotional healing.

The Power of Cartooning as an Art Form

Navid Mahdavian opens the discussion by advocating for cartooning as the highest art form. He emphasizes the medium's ability to convey complex emotions with minimal lines, stating:

“Every artist will say their medium is the highest art form. But they're wrong. Because cartooning is the highest art form. Because you can say so much with so little and with just like a few lines, you can express happiness and smugness and sadness.”
— Navid Mahdavian [03:45]

Navid explains how the act of drawing cartoons is not just a creative exercise but also a personal process of expressing and refining emotions through facial expressions and minimalistic art.

Developing the BARF Scale: Bridging Medicine and Art

Amy Baxter introduces her innovative project, the Baxter Animated Retching Faces (BARF) Scale, designed to quantify and visualize nausea in patients. She discusses the collaborative effort between medical professionals and cartoonists to create an animated scale that accurately reflects the spectrum of nausea experiences.

“One of the things I like about it and being here at TED is the intersections between. Like when I was asked to sit down with you, it was like maybe talking to a doctor. I don't know, like I don't know what I'm going to be talking about. But then as I started thinking about it, like realizing that there were those overlaps.”
— Navid Mahdavian [03:57]

Amy elaborates on the technical aspects of the BARF Scale, including its validation across different languages and its practical applications in medical settings, particularly for children with cancer.

Navigating Pain and Healing Through Art

The conversation shifts to the broader theme of how both Navid and Amy navigate pain—physically and emotionally. Navid shares his personal experiences of grief and loss, explaining how cartooning serves as a therapeutic tool to simplify and express complex emotions associated with his family's health struggles.

“One of my earliest memories is of her hands. And I think that when we're trying to dodge grief, like, not deal with our grief, we tend to caricature the person that we've lost.”
— Navid Mahdavian [20:30]

Amy draws parallels between managing physical pain and emotional grief, highlighting the importance of focusing on specific aspects to facilitate healing.

“It's analogous to the way we deal with physical pain. And so what you did was a visual embodiment of the same techniques that are helpful for dealing with physical pain.”
— Amy Baxter [23:35]

Cultural Influences on Expressing Emotions

Amy and Navid explore how cultural backgrounds influence the expression of emotions and pain. Amy discusses the variability in how different cultures allow or discourage the expression of grief and discomfort, noting:

“Pain is interestingly very cultural. It is very different in different cultures. There are different cultures where letting it out is more what you're supposed to do.”
— Amy Baxter [17:23]

Navid reflects on his observations of how cultural norms shape the way individuals express happiness and sadness, especially contrasting his experiences with his daughter.

“Because we can mask it so well where little kids they, they don't do that. Nor do people with visual impairments.”
— Navid Mahdavian [19:21]

Overcoming the Fear of Rejection

A significant portion of the dialogue addresses the common challenge both professionals face—the fear of not being taken seriously in their respective fields. Amy discusses the societal tendency to trivialize her work with the BARF Scale, while Navid shares experiences of his artistic efforts being dismissed as mere doodles.

“The hardest part is trying not to get my emotions in the way or my fear of rejection or fear of not being taken seriously.”
— Amy Baxter [24:10]

“Another commonality, the fear of rejection and not being taken seriously.”
— Navid Mahdavian [25:33]

Both agree that resilience and finding personal validation are crucial in overcoming these professional hurdles.

The Therapeutic Benefits of Focused Creativity

The discussion culminates in the therapeutic benefits of focused creativity. Navid explains how concentrating on specific details in his cartoons helps him process grief and complex emotions, allowing him to manage and heal from personal losses.

“Grief is complicated. So my approach to both of them was to try to take something big and to make it simple.”
— Navid Mahdavian [20:10]

Amy parallels this with psychological techniques used in pain management, where focusing on a single aspect can help mitigate overwhelming feelings.

“Focusing on hands or just focus. A rock or a breath is partially allowing you to let go of all the pain externally. And it's both physical as well as mental.”
— Amy Baxter [22:20]

Conclusion: The Intersection of Art and Medicine in Healing

Navid and Amy conclude by emphasizing the importance of interdisciplinary conversations in fostering innovation and healing. They highlight how bridging different fields can lead to groundbreaking approaches in both creative expression and medical practices.

“The only way you can make huge leaps is by having a great conversation with someone who's in an arena and a discipline that you would not normally talk to.”
— Amy Baxter [25:47]

This episode beautifully illustrates how creativity and science can collaborate to enhance our understanding and management of both physical and emotional pain, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the healing power of art.

Key Takeaways:

• Cartooning as Emotional Expression: Minimalistic art forms like cartooning can effectively convey complex emotions, serving as a therapeutic tool.

• Innovative Medical Tools: The development of the BARF Scale exemplifies how creative collaborations can lead to practical solutions in healthcare.

• Cultural Sensitivity: Understanding cultural differences is crucial in addressing how individuals express and manage pain and grief.

• Overcoming Professional Challenges: Both creatives and medical professionals face similar fears of rejection, highlighting the need for resilience and interdisciplinary support.

• Focused Creativity for Healing: Concentrating on specific details in creative projects can aid in processing and overcoming personal grief and pain.

This episode of TED Talks Daily offers a profound exploration of the synergy between creativity and medicine, demonstrating how innovative thinking can foster profound healing and emotional resilience.