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How do you take the right risks? A photographer and brand builder answer | David Suh and Molly Graham
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- [00:01]
Elise Hu
Hey TED Talks Daily listeners, It's Elise. Thank you for making this show part of your daily routine. We really appreciate it and we want to make it even better for you. So we put together a quick survey and we'd love to hear your thoughts. It's listener survey time. It only takes a few minutes, but it really helps us shape the show and get to know you, our listeners, so much better. Head to the episode description to find the link to the listener survey. We would really appreciate you doing it. Thank you so much for taking the time to help the show.
- [00:35]
Molly Graham
When it comes to your business, every second counts. From mega factories to mom and pop shops, Ericsson helps tens of thousands of companies around the world build powerful connections every day. Power your business with our connectivity and communication solutions. The invisible advantage driving your growth. Visit us@ericsson.com Power that's Erit I C-S-S O-N.com Power Think advertising on TikTok isn't for your business?
- [01:07]
David Suh
Think again. We've generated over 100,000 leads, which has converted into over 40,000 sales for our pet insurance policies. My name is Trey Farrow. I am the CEO of Spot Pet Insurance. TikTok Smart AI powered automation takes the guesswork out of targeting, bidding and optimizing creative. If I can advertise on TikTok, you can too.
- [01:28]
Molly Graham
Drive more leads and scale your business. Today only on TikTok.
- [01:31]
David Suh
Head over to get started.
- [01:32]
Molly Graham
TikTok.
- [01:38]
Elise Hu
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Picture this. Somewhere in the world, an Apple Card user is getting 3% daily cash back on the purchase of an iPhone 16 at Apple. That's not all. They also earned 2% back on the new shoes they bought using Apple Pay. Visit Apple Co CardCalculator to see how much daily cash back you can earn. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch terms and more@applecard.com you're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. Our original series TED Intersections is back for a new season. This series features unscripted conversations between speakers and experts taking on subjects at the intersection of their expertise. In this conversation, David Suh, a portrait photographer and TikTok's king of poses, sits down with startup consultant Molly Graham to answer the question, how do you find the courage to take risks? They touch on a lot of topics, including confidence, authenticity, success and how to find the real you.
- [03:02]
Molly Graham
I think I thrive on fear, the bad version of it is, like, I get bored easily. And the good version is that I love being on learning curves so steep that I'm terrified I'm going to fall off of them. I think I've learned to make it a trigger for, like, oh, you got to, like, try this or you got to do this, because you're going to learn something, and you're going to learn what you're capable of, sort of in spite of the fear. Can I get you to tell the red dress story? Can we tell the red dress story and then you can ask me a question?
- [03:46]
David Suh
Yeah.
- [03:48]
Molly Graham
Okay. So in Covid, I think you started playing around with social media, and you said that you put something online and it blew up. Will you, like, tell that story and.
- [03:58]
David Suh
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So quarantine. I couldn't take any more clients, right? So I tried to stay optimistic. A lot of the peers around me were being really sad, and I was like, you know, let me see what I can do, right? Let me take the abundance of time as a blessing. So TikTok was a big thing then, and I was like, what if I just. What if I just share the joys of what I do? And I wanted to tell, like, the transformation that goes on in my small Sacramento studio of my clients coming in really shy, disconnected from their bodies, and then transforming into this, like, beautiful, like, human being in front of the camera. But I only had myself, so I played both characters of myself as a photographer and then also my clients, except to play my client. I was like, huh, maybe I'll just, like, take the studio, like, red dress that we have, and I'll put on myself a wig and then little flower crown, too. And then I just acted shy but also glamorous at the same time. And I guess people really love that.
- [05:11]
Molly Graham
You said it blew up.
- [05:12]
David Suh
Yeah, it blew up overnight.
- [05:14]
Molly Graham
And what did that change for you?
- [05:16]
David Suh
I was so focused on photography. I thought, like, I would put all my eggs in one basket of, oh, like, David can bring value to the world by being a photographer. But I realized then that, huh, like, the more I can be me, it seems like I can bring more value to a wider audience. And I was so focused on just, like, let me get better at this. Better at this. That this was such a huge awakening to being David and exploring David to his fullest potential and just thriving as me and realizing, oh, I can be accepted by being myself fully.
- [06:06]
Molly Graham
Yeah, totally.
- [06:07]
David Suh
That was like, a huge value awakening for me. But I also know you had a little bit of a similar moment of publishing Something online?
- [06:19]
Molly Graham
Yeah, like 10 years ago, I'd spent probably six years at Google and Facebook and then a couple of years helping build a little startup. And somebody approached me about, like, publishing some of the things that I'd learned. And I had this thing I used to say to people when I was like, coaching or mentoring them on my team, about how you have to get good at giving away your Legos. That was my phrase for teaching people to learn to let go of things and to embrace change. As the companies that I worked on were changing and growing so fast that it's a very emotional process for people. Um, and it often causes you to want to, like, hold on to the past. Right. To hold on to what you know. And so for some reason my brain works in weird metaphors. And I came up with this metaphor of like, kinder or nerds learning to share their Legos. And so I published this article with these folks about basically saying one of the best things you can do if you're inside of these companies that are growing and changing is to give, to learn to give away your Legos, which essentially was like, learn to grow as your company grows. Learn to change as your company evolves. And, and I don't know, I think I did it as a favor to a friend, and it felt like something that might be useful to people that were inside of these rapidly scaling companies. And it was my first experience with, like, something taking off and taking on a life of its own to the point where I didn't understand what I had people emailing me from, like, big old companies, folks from Safeway and places that I had not intended it for. Um, and little tiny companies. Like, I remember a founder in Nigeria emailed me and just said, this was just, like, so helpful to me. I can't tell you how powerful it was. And it really helped, like, normalize this situation I was in. And for me, it was eye opening in terms of, like, sometimes the thing you intend or the thing that you put out in the world, you meant it one way, but it has this much broader audience and this much broader meaning to other people. Um, but it also taught me, like, I think I had spent a long time building companies and, and thought that that was the main way that I was gonna help. Which is a, which is definitely a word in my, in my career.
- [08:32]
David Suh
Yeah.
- [08:33]
Molly Graham
And then I discovered that there was a way to connect with people that I would never meet and be able to, like, help folks that, like, were on the other side of the world that I was never gonna encounter through My like day to day work, you.
- [08:44]
David Suh
Know, did you get a lot of like more questions that followed up? Because it's one of those things where, you know, when you help solve something, there's, then there's more questions.
- [08:55]
Molly Graham
Yeah. It takes you on a journey, right? Absolutely.
- [08:58]
David Suh
Just get more. And did you. I mean for me, like I started getting a bunch of questions from people and I was like, I guess I can start answering a bunch of these. Was it kind of like that?
- [09:07]
Molly Graham
Yeah, same thing. Yeah. So I now do these things called Legos talks companies will, when they are going through hyper growth but honestly just when they're going through a lot of change, they'll reach out and ask if I can come in and talk to their team. And I always call them group therapy sessions because really what I'm doing is going in and just saying like, hey everybody, it's going to be okay. You know, everything you're going through is both like emotional and normal. It does not mean anything is wrong. But yeah, it led me to like connecting with all these different companies and I think, you know, after many years it's led me to what I do now, which is basically like coach and mentor startup founders and startup leaders. So. But yeah, tell me, tell me about the kinds of questions you got after the red dress.
- [09:52]
David Suh
I mean as you talked about getting response and questions from like different parts of the world. I'll, I'll get a bit of that too. People, like people would enjoy the content differently. Yeah. Some people would say, wow, like you, the way you move your body reminds me of like an airline stewardess. And that was like a big chunk of people. Like that's what they were mesmerized by. Like what about the whole transformation where I go from shy? Like, what about the acting? Yeah, they're like, no, it was that I was like, oh, pause. They didn't care about the posing.
- [10:34]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [10:34]
David Suh
But other folks are like, wow, you seem to know posing really well. So like David, what about me? Because I don't look like you and I'm tall or I have a different body, I'm curvier, I'm skinnier and all this kind of stuff. And I just started to answer as much as I could.
- [10:55]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [10:56]
David Suh
Yeah. But I also learned so much from answering those.
- [10:59]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [10:59]
David Suh
Because I also realized I didn't know the answer to many of those.
- [11:03]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [11:04]
David Suh
So I had to do a lot of, a lot of the traditional photography education and everything I learned didn't answer a lot of those questions for me because it was. So the questions were so human. It was so like, David, what about me? I want to find representation.
- [11:23]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [11:24]
David Suh
But that's not how I learned posing. Posing was just, this is how you look pretty. You create triangles, and you make it, like, dynamic, and, like, you want to look skinnier. So do this and suck in your stomach. But that's not what, like, resonated with everyone.
- [11:42]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [11:42]
David Suh
And that doesn't work on everyone. And it taught me, like, a really big lesson of recognizing that I can help everyone. But to do that, I have to shed sort of, like, this past knowledge that I thought was the Bible.
- [12:02]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [12:02]
David Suh
I had to learn through, like, just helping people for who they are.
- [12:07]
Molly Graham
Will you? I'm curious, because I bet. Well, I bet publishing online in general, but I'm guessing in that first couple of years where you got more and more followers was scary. Like, I'm betting it was scary to put yourself out there and to decide what to engage with and what to ignore. So will you talk about that fear and, like, that process of learning how to do that in spite of fear?
- [12:31]
David Suh
Oh, man. I mean, I. I thought a lot about risk and also the fear. And I mean, something that I had to really come to get better at is receiving the comments.
- [12:47]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [12:47]
David Suh
And because overwhelmingly, in the beginning, it'd be a lot of positive comments.
- [12:53]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [12:54]
David Suh
And I start to create my foundation of confidence from those positive comments. But I realized I would quickly crumble when I would start getting the negative comments. Then I realized there's no foundation because I'm relying on, like, so many, whether it's positive or negative. So that. That was. That was a whole doozy.
- [13:20]
Molly Graham
How'd you find the foundation?
- [13:23]
David Suh
Oh, I had to do a lot. I had to do a lot of. What does David want? What does David like? What makes David happy? And that's a whole different journey because I realize I do that for my clients. I never found that same patience and kindness for myself. That's. That's a whole. That's a whole different journey. Did you have any fears of, like, putting yourself, yourself out there? Because there's so many, like, experts in. In that field of, like, operations startup. It's such a huge thing now. Like, totally. Were there any fears around, like, judgment from that crowd who are also, like, experts in your field?
- [14:07]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [14:07]
David Suh
But also this new demographic of people who. Who were looking up to you and who want to find, like, a breath of fresh air?
- [14:15]
Molly Graham
Yeah. I would say, number one, I think I. I think I thrive on fear. Like, I feel like my whole career, the bad version of it, is like, I get bored easily. And the good version is that I love being on learning curves so, so steep that I'm terrified I'm going to fall off of them. And when the learning curve starts to, like, slow down is when I get bored. And so I do, I do think that, like, being scared for me is, I think I've learned to make it a trigger for like, oh, you gotta like, try this or you gotta do this, because you're gonna learn something and you're gonna learn what you're capable of, sort of in spite of the fear. And I'm like a, I'm a people pleaser, you know, so judgment is hard for me. Like, your world of online comments, like, I do a little bit of publishing on like, LinkedIn and Substack and, you know, I get a negative comment and it'll throw me for a loop. But part of it is because you can't be in a conversation with someone. You know what I mean? Like, online's not great for that. And when it's, when it's a real conversation with someone, like, I can, I can talk to anyone, right? I can have like a thoughtful, robust conversation with somebody I violently, violently disagree with. But online, it's just people throwing, throwing grenades, you know, and running in the other direction, which is not anyone's best, you know, place. But yeah, I think for me, like, I, where I've found my, like, writing and publishing, I've just had to work really hard to just do it, like, for me and basically to like, publish when I'm like, this is something that needs to be shared and I just like, need to put it out there because I've repeated myself five times or, you know, I've said the same thing to three founders this week. That's when I put it online because I think, oh, that's going to help someone that I never met. And so there's definitely fear.
- [16:23]
David Suh
I mean, I, I think we both benefited from being risk takers.
- [16:28]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [16:28]
David Suh
Were there, were there moments that like, that risk actually, like, went south?
- [16:34]
Molly Graham
For sure then you have to answer that. Yeah, I mean, I think went south is like such an interesting thing because, like, what is failure and what is regret? You know, I, I, I always say I don't really believe in regret because I wouldn't be where I am without everything I've been through. Um, and yeah, I think sometimes when I look back and I think about things that I regret or what I would say is like, things I would do differently, knowing what I know now, it was often because I was listening to the wrong voice, you know, inside my head. And so much of. I think the work of figuring out who you are and where you're sort of like, North Star should be in life is about sorting through which voice in your head is talking when it says, this seems like a great idea, or you should definitely do that. And some of the mistakes I've made have been because I listened to a voice that was all about, like, ego and sort of, like, I'd be so excited for people to think I was cool, you know? Whereas, like, if I can listen to the more authentic voice, that's about. Like I said about sort of, like, this is something I care about. And I really want to make sure that, you know, I do this or I learn this or I help people in this way versus, like, I want people to think I'm cool like that. You know, Those are two very different, like, North Stars.
- [18:03]
David Suh
I like the way you, like, think through that. Yeah, I guess. I guess one way to think about risk is the more risks you take, you start to hone absolutely in on that authentic voice. You start to hone in on that North Star, and you make older, more confident decisions, I guess, the more risks you take.
- [18:27]
Molly Graham
Yeah. I'm gonna say something to that, and then I'm gonna make you answer the fear question. But, like, absolutely. One of. So my TED Talk is about taking risks, and I use the metaphor of jumping off cliffs, and I was doing the TED Talk before I, like, a couple of weeks ago for this community of startup leaders that I run, and we were talking a lot about where confidence comes from, because I'm excited for this. Well, you know, one of the things I realized is that I reached a point after a couple of jumps. What I would call jumps. Yeah. Where I took a big risk and I kind of came out the other side of the falling part of the jump. I reached a point where, like, there was something that no one could take away from me, you know? And I think early in your career or work life, you're scared. You're like, you don't know who you. Who you are. And to some extent, you're trying to define yourself by other people's versions of success or other people's versions of, like, who you are. And then for me, risk taking was such an important tool for figuring out who I was, and to some extent, getting a confidence that, like, sort of, like, I can. I know I'm good at stuff. Yeah. And even if I fail, like, it's never going to take away that sort of like, intrinsic knowledge that I'm good at things. Because I've now been through so many different, like, weird scenarios, you know, this, like, belief.
- [19:50]
David Suh
This, like, almost delusional belief of, like, who. Who we are. And, like, it's that supporting of that person and our belief.
- [19:59]
Molly Graham
Yeah, but I do. I mean, I also just think risk is part of how you deeply get to know yourself. You know, you're not walking up somebody else's stairs. You're. You're kind of, like, trying to discover what you are and very much also what you're not. You know, and in the process of that, you're. You sort of develop that intrinsic sense of, like, this is who I am. This is who I'm not. And. And to your point about, like, narrowing like that then becomes much more clear about, like, okay, this is where I. What matters to me, and, like, where I want to go. But tell me about. Tell me your question. Sorry. The question that you asked me was about failure, and it was about sort of, like, trying things and it not working out. I'm curious, like, what role that has played for you in terms of, like, have there been big failures? Have there been time? Things that you, like, look back on and you're like, I wish I hadn't done that.
- [20:53]
David Suh
Let me think about this. I didn't know you're gonna pull the UNO reverse card. I mean, I don't know if there's, like. Like, the most recent one that I can think of. I don't know if I, like, really learned something from it, but I posted something like Politics Tangent, and that was a nightmare. That was a nightmare. So, yeah, that gave me a big anxiety attack.
- [21:24]
Molly Graham
What did you do?
- [21:26]
David Suh
It was. It was just like a Kamala Harris posing like, let's break down her poses.
- [21:35]
Molly Graham
Yeah. Wait, but what did you do when it, like.
- [21:38]
David Suh
Oh, what did I do? I just.
- [21:40]
Molly Graham
Did you delete it?
- [21:41]
David Suh
I just took it down. You did? Yeah, I just took it down.
- [21:44]
Molly Graham
What do you feel like? It's interesting because you're saying, like, this was authentically joyful for me. Right. And I shared it, and then the world did what the world does these days. And what do you. What do you feel like you take away from that?
- [22:01]
David Suh
Sorry, what do I take away from that? Oh, man. I don't know. It was so, like, my. My girlfriend, who's also a content creator, she was like. She was like, david, you should just, like, this is you. This is authentically you. You should just, like, keep backing it up. But that, like, for this one, I just, like, kind of lost the will to fight that one, you know? So I was like, am I bad? Am I bad, David? Should I have, like, fought for myself? Should I have stood up for myself? But I don't know. I don't know.
- [22:41]
Molly Graham
Yeah, well, there's some battles you don't have to fight, you know, but it is interesting, like, maybe it's to the point about online and like there, there are moments when it's hard to be your whole self in a. In an environment where it isn't easy to have a two way conversation, you know?
- [23:01]
David Suh
Yeah. I wonder if it's like as you talk about spaces. Because if I shared that, like, it, it depends on the community that I share because I, I know you're huge on community too.
- [23:12]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [23:14]
David Suh
Um, so I guess it's like, can.
- [23:16]
Molly Graham
You.
- [23:18]
David Suh
Can you be an authentic self in a setting that's open?
- [23:24]
Molly Graham
Yeah, yeah, totally. That's open. Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:29]
David Suh
So I was like, maybe, maybe the thing to take away from this is maybe the people weren't ready, you know? And as I keep putting an effort to be as authentic as I can, it's also to realize, oh, not everyone is going to be of support for my authentic path.
- [23:47]
Molly Graham
Yeah. Yeah. Will you talk about what success means to you and what you've discovered about that on this journey?
- [23:55]
David Suh
I was thinking about that too. Because as we talk about risks, it's like if we have different meanings of success and life goals and purpose, then risk isn't that important to some people, depending on the goal. So I guess for me, if I strip away just scientific values or spiritual values and all that kind of stuff and like other beliefs and I just come down to, okay, what is David? Where is he at right now? He's on a big planet and there's never going to be another David. How can I keep pushing to find a way to. How do I say this? It's like I just want to find me. I guess, like, I just want to find me. And I also like growing up in Korea, very like homogenous country. Right. Like, what's beautiful there is that everyone kind of takes care of one another. And like, we respect one another a lot. But what's lost in that respect is sort of like that individual, like, voice.
- [25:13]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [25:14]
David Suh
Right. And like success there is so clearly defined for the whole community together, like education, college, get a nice job at Samsung and like, you know, like, that's a very clear path of success there. And I guess like, having been fed that most of my life, the moment I started tasting a bit more of like, standing out for myself and asking myself, oh, what do. What does David enjoy? And supporting that with finances, with the right people, the right community, the right affirmations, validations. I'm like, oh, like, it feels great to be more of me. Whatever that means.
- [25:59]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [26:00]
David Suh
And I. I think so. That's my, I guess, definition of success. The more I can be me, which I'm finding out, the more I help others, the more I can just be a light, I guess, be something positive to other people. I just really enjoy that.
- [26:22]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [26:23]
David Suh
And the more I do that, I keep learning, and it's like this beautiful cycle.
- [26:26]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [26:27]
David Suh
Yeah.
- [26:27]
Molly Graham
I love that.
- [26:28]
David Suh
But what about. What about for you? Enough about my definition of success, which took me a long time to get to, but. No.
- [26:34]
Molly Graham
Yeah. Well, I think it. I mean, success is a journey, you know, at least in my experiences. Like, I think you often start out with your parents definition of success or someone. Maybe it's a cultural definition of success, but I think for a lot of people, it's some external force that's older than you telling you what good is, you know, and it takes time to figure out whether that is true for you, you know, or if you have a different definition of success. I also think success changes as you get older. Like, what it means to you and what you value. Like, what I thought mattered when I was in my 20s and 30s, like, is not what I value in my 40s. And for me, it's been this massive transformation, I think for I, like, when I turned 40, I really, like, leaned into it and was like, I'm thinking of. This is halfway through my life, if I'm lucky. Um, and so I started to realize that time was just finite in a way that I think it just never feels like when you're in your 20s, you're like, I have. I have infinite time. I'm gonna travel to every country and become president. You know what I mean? Like, you're just like. It's all possible. Um, and I think as you get older and as, you know, you watch friends die or different things happen in life, you realize that time is, like, the most valuable thing you have, and that being able to choose how you spend your time, for me, that's been just like a punch in the face of, like, okay, like, 40 years left, 40 years live, 40 years left, let's say, hopefully. And what do I want? What do I want to do with that time? And it's led me to also realize that, like, you know, I think for a long time, success was probably defined by some kind of programming or someone else's definition around title or, you know, fame or people thinking I was cool in some form or another. And there was a really abrupt moment where I just realized that is not what I care about and that now I define success through joy. And I just look for like joy in my day and literally like, do I look forward to the people I'm going to work with, the work that I'm going to do, the time, the time that I get to spend with my family, you know, with people that I love. I want to be joyful most days. Nobody's, nobody's joyful every day. But you know, to be able to say that like 80 or 85% of days I'm like skipping into work and life, that to me is like the ultimate definition of success.
- [29:19]
David Suh
And I love joy because I was thinking about joy versus happiness. We're unfortunately out of time.
- [29:27]
Molly Graham
No.
- [29:30]
David Suh
So great. It was such a wonderful conversation.
- [29:32]
Molly Graham
David and I are just going to continue this.
- [29:34]
David Suh
I know. I want to talk about comfort a little bit too. Risk and comfort.
- [29:40]
Molly Graham
Yeah, man, I know.
- [29:41]
David Suh
Well, we're just enjoy versus happiness.
- [29:43]
Molly Graham
I know. Sorry. We're going to continue the conversation. Yeah. This was so fun. It's so fun to get to know you.
- [29:49]
David Suh
Yeah, I feel like I'm learning so much. Same again as a, as a wee tiny 30 year old founder.
- [29:56]
Molly Graham
Yeah.
- [29:57]
David Suh
So much to learn. So let's please continue this off cameras.
- [30:00]
Molly Graham
Yeah, same. You're going to help me. You're going to help me become physically powerful. Thank you.
- [30:06]
David Suh
Thank you.
- [30:13]
Elise Hu
That was a conversation between David Suh and Molly Graham for our original series, Ted Intersections. Visit Ted.com to watch this conversation and others from the series. If you're curious about Ted's curation, find out more@ted.com curationguidelines and that's it for today's show. Ted Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar and Tonsika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Ballaurazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. Support for this show comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.
- [31:35]
Molly Graham
Now at Verizon, we have some big news for your peace of mind for all our customers, existing and new, we're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on my plan and my home. That's future you peace of mind and everyone can save on a brand new phone on my plan. When you trade in any phone from one of our top brands, that's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us, we got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Let's talk about an elite green flag being a cat dad. Temptations, America's number one cat treat brand, is making 2025 the year of the Cat Dad. And honestly, about time. Whether he's coordinating snack time with the meow schedule or just vibing with his tabby, Temptation treats make cat dads even more irresistible to their cats and to us. For more information about Temptations Brand Cat Dads, or to learn more about the brand, visit temptationtreats.com and don't forget to share your own CatDad sightings on social. We'll be scrolling.