Podcast Summary: TED Talks Daily

Episode: How to Empower the Next Generation of Pilots | Refilwe Ledwaba
Date: October 31, 2025
Host: TED (with Lily James Olds, TED Fellows Program Director)
Guest: Refilwe Ledwaba, Pilot & Founder of Girls Fly Africa

Overview

This episode centers on the inspiring journey of Refilwe Ledwaba, South Africa's first Black woman helicopter pilot and founder of Girls Fly Africa. She shares how her personal experiences navigating a male-dominated industry informed her mission to empower girls—especially from rural, underprivileged, and traditionally conservative backgrounds—to pursue careers in aviation and aerospace.
Through storytelling and a candid post-talk interview, Ledwaba and TED Fellows Program Director Lily James Olds discuss the structural barriers facing women in aviation, the importance of context-aware training, and the societal transformation possible when young women are given both exposure and support.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refilwe’s Journey into Aviation

• Background & Breakthrough Moment

  • Started as a flight attendant and was encouraged by pilots due to her intelligence.
  • “They would call me during landings… The captain, he actually looked at me like, can you see what you’re kind of missing?... That was the turning point.” (04:52)
  • Faced significant challenges in pilot training, especially with the hovering maneuver as a helicopter trainee.

• Learning Through Context

  • “My new instructor actually took some time to get to know me… He understood that traditional training wasn’t going to work for me.” (06:03)
  • Highlighted the need for instructors to adapt based on a trainee’s background, motor skills, and previous exposure.

• The Importance of Support Networks

  • “Sometimes we tend to make people part of the problem… but we don’t make people part of the success. We need to start telling those stories.” (04:08)
  • Credits her community, including her mother and supportive pilots and instructors, for her achievements.

2. The Mission of Girls Fly Africa

• Program Structure: Five Key Focus Areas (07:44)

  1. Information Access & Role Models:
     • Many girls lack awareness and visible role models. E.g., they only knew about pilots like Tom Cruise.
     • Girls Fly Africa provides direct exposure—female pilots landing at rural schools to inspire.
  2. Skills & Capability Building:
     • Early simulator experience and technical exposure, such as engines and 3D modeling, before flight school.
  3. Affordability & Scholarships:
     • Flying is expensive; scholarships have supported 100+ pilots, including drone and flight instructors.
  4. Network & Job Support:
     • Advocacy and connections to help graduates build flight hours, gain employment, and progress in the industry.
  5. Continuous Support & Advancement:
     • Ongoing mentorship aimed at helping women rise to positions like training captains and even astronauts.

• Scope & Impact

  • Over 500,000 youth engaged, 200,000 in workshops/camps, and direct pilot training for over 100 girls.
  • “It looks like a small number, but to train a pilot takes quite long.” (09:46)

3. Socio-Cultural Barriers & Tailored Training

• Challenging Traditional Gender Roles

  • Addressing stereotypes within families and communities about what careers are “appropriate” for women.
  • “Most of the communities we work with, they still have preconceived ideas of what women should be doing… Now they can see some people that look like them.” (07:16, 08:13)

• Meeting Students Where They Are

  • Many participants have never driven a car, ridden a bike, or done tasks developing hand-eye coordination.
  • Programs are designed assuming the “worst case scenario”—little exposure to modern technology or assertiveness training.
  • “Aviation is far off. It’s not something that they would actually do.” (15:44)

• Respectful Community Engagement

  • Program staff engage with parents and community leaders, addressing root causes of resistance, such as economic pressures and longstanding norms.
  • “Women can also be economically independent and actually come and support the community.” (22:38)

4. Industry Data & Global Barriers

• Representation & Progress

  • “For the last 30 years, the percentage of women [in aerospace] has remained at around about 20%. We’ve only had about 11% of astronauts.”
  • “The number of licensed female pilots has increased from 3.6 to an amazing 4.0%… Female licensed airline pilots are sitting at about 5.21% globally.” (18:03–18:48)

• Bias and Structural Obstacles

  • “There’s a lot of perception that women can do certain jobs. And I think once that perception is there, it is very difficult to start explaining that women can actually do the job.” (19:40)

• Impact Beyond Aviation

  • The skills and self-belief fostered by the program benefit girls regardless of their ultimate career, from STEM fields to leadership roles.
  • Cites high unemployment and inequality in South Africa, with women disproportionately affected.
  • “If we reduce gender inequality with high-paying job increased… it will reduce poverty by a significant number.” (25:53)

5. Empowerment, Reflection, and Sustaining Change

• Importance of Reflection

  • “When we are successful, we don’t often reflect… When I started turning that around, reflecting on my successes, I realized... there were people that played a role.” (26:55)

• Being the Shoulders for Others

  • Not just standing on the shoulders of giants, but also silent supporters whose contributions are less visible.
  • “It takes a village. It takes a community for you to get from where you were to where you’re supposed to be.” (27:50)

• Vision for the Future

  • Striving for the normalization of women in all aviation roles.
  • “We want to get to that point where we have normalized women in this industry.” (30:25)
  • Refilwe’s personal mission: to keep flying and remain a role model for the next generations.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We’re quick to say, oh, these were my challenges, but we’re not quick to say, but this person removed this barrier and this person removed this one.” – Refilwe Ledwaba (04:08)

• “He understood that traditional training wasn’t going to work for me. He went back and redesigned the program. And within two flights of just doing that, I overcame that obstacle… I finished ahead of everybody else.” – Refilwe Ledwaba on her instructor (06:22)

• “When they go out into society and watch, let’s say, TV or advertisement that has to do with flying, it’s always a male pilot. So aviation is never the center of something that they can possibly do. It actually starts there, right?” – Refilwe Ledwaba (21:35)

• “By empowering them with that knowledge [of aviation and technology], they can then go back to their community… to really improve the lives of people in their community.” (24:15)

• “For me, it made a huge difference and a huge shift in my thinking and also starting to create opportunities for others as well.” (27:49)

• “It takes a village. It takes a community for you to get from… where you were, to where you’re supposed to be.” (27:53)

• “We want to get to that point where we have normalized women in this industry.” (30:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |---------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:08 | Refilwe’s story: Challenges, support, and the importance of mentors | | 06:03 | Her instructor’s tailored approach and overcoming barriers | | 07:44 | Five-part structure of Girls Fly Africa’s programming | | 12:40 | Interview: First experiences flying and program design philosophy | | 15:41 | The unique challenges of rural/traditional backgrounds | | 17:14 | Why teaching girls to fly matters—choice, representation, data | | 19:28 | Reasons for low representation of women in aviation | | 22:30 | Engaging families and communities—social and economic context | | 25:27 | The triple challenge: poverty, inequality, unemployment | | 26:55 | Reflection and gratitude: Shoulders we stand on | | 29:18 | Refilwe’s big dream: Normalize women in aviation | | 30:25 | The vision of many women pilots, not just “a woman pilot” |

Flow & Tone

Throughout, Refilwe speaks candidly, mixing humor (her late driver’s license) with deep insights on intersectional barriers. Her tone is proactive, community-oriented, and deeply hopeful. The interview with Lily James Olds is warm and conversational, drawing out both personal reflection and broader social strategy.

Conclusion

This episode is a compelling look at transforming not just aviation, but society, by redefining who gets to dream—and fly. Refilwe Ledwaba’s innovations with Girls Fly Africa demonstrate how shifting the narrative, adapting education to real-life contexts, and engaging entire communities can open up new worlds for young women, with ripple effects far beyond the cockpit.