How we took on an oil giant — and won | Melinda Janki

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

How we took on an oil giant — and won | Melinda Janki
Podcast: TED Talks Daily
Air Date: September 22, 2025
Speaker: Melinda Janki
Host: Elise Hu

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Episode Overview

This episode features climate justice lawyer Melinda Janki, who shares her remarkable story of leading legal battles against ExxonMobil’s oil drilling activities in her home country of Guyana. Drawing on her experience as both a former oil industry lawyer and an environmental advocate, Janki explains how she used the law—and specifically environmental and human rights protections enshrined in existing statutes—to achieve unprecedented wins against one of the world's oil giants. The episode highlights not only the power of legal strategies but also the importance of persistence and community in fighting climate injustice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Journey: From Oil Industry Insider to Environmental Litigator

[03:01 - 04:13]

• Janki begins by sharing her background as a corporate lawyer within a major oil company. A pivotal moment—a colleague calling a massive deal “so sexy”—motivated her to leave.

• She returns to Guyana, where she drafts laws to protect the environment and indigenous lands and empowers local communities to defend their forests.

  “Nature lives with me in my house and in my garden. I’m talking about the birds, the butterflies, the flowers, the trees, the bees, the bats, the toads, the lizards, the opossums, the little snakes. All of them are my family.”
  —Melinda Janki [04:06]

2. The ExxonMobil Discovery and Legal Challenge

[04:20 - 06:05]

• 2015: ExxonMobil discovers over 11 billion barrels of oil off Guyana’s coast—a find with the potential to emit 5 billion tons of greenhouse gases if extracted.

• Acknowledges the daunting power of the oil industry, but insists it can be challenged and beaten through legal means.

  “They want you to believe that you can’t fight them, but you can. And you can win. I’m doing it. And so can you.”
  —Melinda Janki [05:01]

3. Using Existing Laws for Game-Changing Wins

[06:10 - 08:19]

• Describes how she was initially laughed at for taking on Exxon with limited resources and a single elderly client (“a pensioner for a client”).

• By meticulously combing through legal documents, Janki found a clause limiting environmental permits to five years, effectively cutting ExxonMobil’s permits from 20 to 5 years in 2020.

• The approach: use the laws as written, asking judges not to create new statutes but to enforce existing ones.

  “I don’t ask judges to make new laws. I don’t use moral arguments. I use existing law. My heart tells me what to do, but my head tells me how to do it.”
  —Melinda Janki [07:16]

4. Landmark Ruling on Scope 3 Emissions

[07:40 - 08:48]

• The most recent victory (March 2025): Convincing the court that ExxonMobil’s environmental impact assessments must account for Scope 3 emissions—GHGs produced wherever the oil is burned, globally.
• This legal precedent applies to all future oil projects in Guyana.

5. Forcing Accountability and Corporate Guarantees

[08:49 - 10:30]

• Courts found ExxonMobil Guyana Limited liable for ALL cleanup and compensation costs from drilling damage, imposing “unlimited” parent company liability and requiring Exxon to provide an unlimited guarantee.
• After this ruling, Exxon’s share price dropped by 12% within two weeks.
• Additional victories: requiring insurance, a $2 billion guarantee, and restricting production licenses for some of Exxon’s partners.

6. Lowering Barriers for Environmental Litigants

[10:31 - 12:00]

• Janki narrates a case involving a pensioner nicknamed “Rambo.” Although they lost, the court ruled that environmental litigants should not have to pay the opposing side’s costs if they lose. This “protective costs order” now applies in five countries and removes a major barrier to environmental litigation.

  “That makes it easier for people to go to court now and fight the oil industry.”
  —Melinda Janki [11:32]

7. The Oil Industry’s Weakness and the Power of Community

[12:01 - 13:34]

• Janki asserts that the oil industry’s business model is inherently unsustainable and destined to collapse.

• Encourages listeners not to be intimidated or to fall into despair—fight with “courage and intelligence” to win.

  “Don’t be fooled by the big, bad image of the oil industry. We have the advantage. The oil industry is weak. It’s powerless. It’s going to collapse. It’s only a question of when.”
  —Melinda Janki [13:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emotional Connection to Nature:
  “In the quiet stillness of an afternoon when a hummingbird shimmers in the air just a few feet away from me, I know there is magic on Earth.”
  —Melinda Janki [04:00]

• On Legal Power:
  “Law is power. I’m a lawyer. I use law.”
  —Melinda Janki [05:25]

• On Fighting the Oil Industry:
  “When we fight with courage and intelligence, we beat the oil industry.”
  —Melinda Janki [13:29]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:01 | Melinda Janki’s oil industry background and turning point | | 04:20 | Returning to Guyana and defending nature | | 05:01 | ExxonMobil’s oil discovery and initial legal resistance | | 06:10 | Enforcing permit limits—legal strategy success | | 07:40 | Court victory: mandate on Scope 3 emissions | | 08:49 | Court ruling: Exxon’s unlimited liability, market impact | | 10:31 | Rambo’s case and removing litigation cost barriers | | 12:01 | The oil industry’s weakness and a call to collective action |

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Tone & Language

Janki’s language is direct, hopeful, and laced with personal conviction. She anchors her arguments in love for nature and a belief in the transformative power of the law. Her delivery is both rational and passionate, empowering listeners to see themselves as agents of change.

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Conclusion

Melinda Janki’s TED Talk, as featured on TED Talks Daily, is a masterclass in using existing laws to hold powerful polluters to account. Her victories against ExxonMobil serve as a blueprint and inspiration for activists worldwide, reminding audiences that the battle against climate injustice is not unwinnable—and that courage, intelligence, and the strategic use of the law can level the playing field.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

When I was younger, I worked in the oil industry. I was a corporate lawyer inside one of the biggest oil companies in the world. Then one day, in the middle of a massive deal, a colleague said to me, this is so sexy. And I knew I had to leave. So I did. I went back to my home country, Guyana, South America. Guyana is a very special place. It's a carbon sink. It's part of the Amazon rainforest. I started to work defending people and nature. I drafted new laws to protect the environment and indigenous land rights. I used those laws to empower an indigenous community so that they could protect 2,300 square miles of tropical forest. This was really important to me because I feel deeply connected to nature. Nature lives with me in my house and in my garden. I'm talking about the birds, the butterflies, the flowers, the trees, the bees, the bats, the toads, the lizards, the opossums, the little snakes. All of them are my family. And in the quiet stillness of an afternoon when a hummingbird shimmers in the air just a few feet away from me, I know there is magic on Earth. But that magic is still threatened by global overheating caused by greenhouse gas pollution from the fossil fuel industry. So the story I want to tell you now takes us back to the oil industry. But this time it's a story of fighting and winning. The story begins in 2015 when ExxonMobil said they had found oil offshore Guyana. This is one of the biggest finds in recent times. More than 11 billion barrels of oil burning that could release 5 billion tons of greenhouse gas pollution. This Guyana field is so important to Exxon, they call it a jewel in their crown. I knew I had to do something. I know what you're thinking. The oil industry is big. It's powerful. We've all seen how hard it is to go up against oil companies. They want you to believe that you can't fight them, but you can. And you can win. I'm doing it. And so can you. The oil industry does not care about you or human rights or the environment or the planet. The oil industry cares about money. The only thing they respond to is power. Law is power. I'm a lawyer. I use law. When I first started this work, I was alone. People laughed at me for taking on the oil industry with no money and with a pensioner for a client. But I have filed 10 cases against the oil and good, courageous lawyers have been inspired to join this fight. We first beat Exxon Mobil in 2020. We cut ExxonMobil Guyana's permits down from 20 years to. To 5 years. We managed to do this because I read through 197 pages of legal rules and regulations and there on page 191 was a rule that restricted environmental permits to five years. We just enforced that rule. Simple but effective. I don't ask judges to make new laws. I don't use moral arguments. I use existing law. My heart tells me what to do, but my head tells me how to do it. I don't confuse the two. Our most recent win was March 2025. We said the environmental impact assessment for Exxon's project to extract oil from Guyana should, should take into account all the pollution anywhere in the world, wherever that oil is burned. What we call Scope 3 emissions. We used a section of the law that I had drafted which said an environmental impact assessment must include indirect impacts. We said scope three emissions are indirect impacts. The judge agreed. So the environmental impact assessment for that ExxonMobil Guyana project now has to take into account scope three emissions, which makes it harder to justify doing oil. That decision sets a precedent. It applies to every project by ExxonMobil Guyana and it applies to every company that wants to produce oil from Guyana.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

We all know oil production is a very dangerous exercise. When things go wrong, someone has to pay. And this brings me to our most significant case so far. We said Guyana should not have to pay for harm caused by Exxon's drilling. We said Exxon should pay. The judge agreed with us. He said ExxonMobil Guyana Limited is liable for all costs of cleaning up and restoring the environment and compensating people. And he said that liability is unlimited. That could be billions of dollars. The judge said ExxonMobil Guyana Limited did not have the money to cover this potential liability. So he ordered an unlimited parent company guarantee. In the two weeks following this decision, Exxon Mobil Corporation's share price declined by 12%. We've had. We've had other successes. The courts have said ExxonMobil Guyana Limited has to comply with international law. They have to provide insurance. They have to provide a $2 billion guarantee. The courts have even said that ExxonMobil Guyana's co venturers Hess Guyana and CNOC, Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation Guyana are not allowed to use their petroleum production license to produce oil. Of course, we don't always win the first case I filed was for someone I met when I accidentally crashed into him on my bicycle. He was an advisor to the president of Guyana. His reputation was so fierce, his nickname was Rambo. Twenty years later, Rambo turned up in my office. Now a 75 year old pensioner, absolutely furious with Exxon Mobil and determined to fight. I took the case. The judges did not give us the ruling we asked for, but we still achieved something really significant. In many countries around the world, if you go to court and you lose, you could end up paying the other side's costs. That could be very expensive. People might be afraid to go to court. We changed that in our case. The judges said, if you come to court and you are protecting the environment but you lose, you should not have to pay the costs for the other side. That makes it easier. That makes it easier for people to go to court now and fight the oil industry. That decision already binds five countries. I hope that people outside of those five countries will take this judgment and will use it to persuade the judges in their countries that you should be able to fight for your planet and not be penalized if you lose in court. We will continue to fight. We don't have a choice. The business model for the oil industry depends upon producing greenhouse gas pollution, which is a serious danger to life on Earth. It's them or us. So don't be fooled by the big bad image of the oil industry. We have the advantage. The oil industry is weak. It's powerless. It's going to collapse. It's only a question of when. Of course they want you to feel despair. They want you to feel as if you're powerless. But they can only do that if we let them. When we fight with courage and intelligence, we beat the oil industry. Thank you.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

That was Melinda Janke speaking at TED Countdown Summit in Nairobi, Kenya in 2025. If you're curious about Ted's curation, find out [e-mail] curationguidelines and that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This talk was fact checked by the TED research team and produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little and Tansika Songmarniewong. This episode was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balaurazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feedback. Thanks for listening.

[D]

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[E]

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[C]

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[A]

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