Sunday Pick: How poetry builds teenagers' confidence (w/ Youth Poet Laureate Naisha Randhar) | How to Be a Better Human

Summary

Podcast Title: TED Talks Daily
Host/Author: TED
Episode: Sunday Pick: How Poetry Builds Teenagers' Confidence (w/ Youth Poet Laureate Naisha Randhar) | How to Be a Better Human
Release Date: April 27, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Sunday Pick: How Poetry Builds Teenagers' Confidence," TED's "How to Be a Better Human" podcast features an insightful conversation between host Chris Duffy and Naisha Randhar, the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas and author of Roses of Arma. This episode, selected in honor of National Poetry Month, delves into the transformative power of poetry in young people's lives, emphasizing its role in fostering self-expression, confidence, and a deeper connection with the world.

Guest Background

Naisha Randhar is a sophomore in high school renowned for her poetic talents and her influential role as the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas. At just 15 years old, Naisha has already authored a book and actively engages with both her peers and the broader community through poetry. Her journey into poetry began at a young age, inspired by literature that depicted personal struggles and resilience.

The Power of Words and Early Beginnings

Naisha recounts her introduction to poetry at age seven, catalyzed by reading about a girl who used poetry as a coping mechanism during homelessness. This early exposure ignited her passion for writing. She further explains that her dedication to poetry solidified after being named the Youth Poet Laureate, allowing her to connect with others and realize that a vibrant community of contemporary poets exists.

Naisha Randhar [05:33]: "I'm the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas and the author of the book called Roses of Arma."

The Importance of Poetry for Youth

The discussion highlights why poetry is particularly vital for young people. Naisha argues that poetry offers a unique avenue for self-expression and self-discovery, free from the rigid expectations often imposed by society. It provides teenagers with a safe space to explore their identities and emotions without the pressure to conform or provide definitive answers.

Naisha Randhar [08:20]: "Poetry is so important for everybody, I think. But for young people specifically, I think that young people are so often driven away from poetry because of the stigma that surrounds it."

Overcoming Misconceptions and Accessibility

Naisha addresses common misconceptions that deter individuals from engaging with poetry, such as the belief that it must always rhyme or be intellectually demanding. She emphasizes the diversity within poetry, showcasing contemporary poets like Ada Limone, whose work is accessible and relatable. This approach demystifies poetry, making it more inviting for newcomers.

Naisha Randhar [07:04]: "I love learning about words. It's my favorite thing. And the first time I was getting into poetry... poets are living, breathing people and people that I can also be like."

Creative Process and Maintaining Passion

When discussing her creative process, Naisha reveals that her early approach was unburdened by expectations, simply enjoying the act of writing. She contrasts this with the challenges of maintaining creativity amid growing self-awareness and external pressures. Her strategy involves writing for personal satisfaction and allowing poems to surprise her, rather than striving for perfection.

Naisha Randhar [16:00]: "Honestly, I was literally just like an 11-year-old messing around... I had so much fun during lockdown writing my fantasy novel."

Balancing Self-Awareness and Confidence

Naisha explores the delicate balance between self-awareness and confidence in artistic endeavors. She acknowledges periods of self-doubt but underscores her unwavering passion for writing. Her conviction stems from poetry being an integral part of her existence, driving her to persist despite challenges.

Naisha Randhar [19:10]: "I think for me, the thing that motivates me and carries me through is just the complete obsession. Because I don't think that I could live without writing."

Cultivating a Poetic Perspective on Life

The conversation shifts to how poetry enhances one's perception of the world, fostering a sense of awe and wonder in everyday experiences. Naisha advocates for reading more poetry and adopting a mindful, witness-based approach to observing life, which enriches one's appreciation for the mundane and the extraordinary alike.

Naisha Randhar [25:06]: "After reading poetry, I've seen poetry everywhere and it is really just a matter of looking more."

Challenges and Vulnerability in Public Performance

Naisha candidly discusses the fears associated with public performances, particularly among teenagers. She shares experiences of performing vulnerable poems to high school audiences, highlighting the initial intimidation and the rewarding connections that follow. Her emphasis on authenticity and vulnerability underscores the importance of courage in sharing one's work.

Naisha Randhar [38:42]: "Vulnerability is so important to me, and so is authenticity also. It just comes with the job."

Advice for Educators and Parents

Naisha offers practical advice for teachers and parents to support young poets. She urges educators to present poetry as an opening for expression rather than a closed interpretative exercise, and to diversify the poets included in curricula to reflect diverse voices. For parents, she advocates for encouraging their children's poetic interests as a means of self-discovery and emotional connection.

Naisha Randhar [41:44]: "Please try and allow poetry to be an opening rather than a closing... Your syllabus should also represent the kids that you're teaching."

Poetry as a Coping Mechanism in a Complex World

In addressing how poetry helps navigate the overwhelming nature of modern life, Naisha explains that poetry serves as a refuge and a tool for empathy. It allows individuals to process complex emotions and maintain their humanity amidst societal pressures and pervasive digital interactions.

Naisha Randhar [37:10]: "Poetry is a way to combat that numbness. And it's partially because you have to stop and you have to listen."

Future Aspirations and Balancing Personal Life

Concluding the conversation, Naisha touches on her aspirations and the balance she strives to maintain between her poetic endeavors and personal life as a teenager. She humorously admits to the typical responsibilities of a high school student, demonstrating her grounded nature despite her remarkable achievements.

Naisha Randhar [44:13]: "I have a lot of homework to do after this. I'll probably be up pretty late, and I also have my winter formal on Saturday."

Conclusion

This episode of "How to Be a Better Human" offers a profound exploration of poetry's role in empowering young individuals. Through Naisha Randhar's experiences and insights, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the art form as a catalyst for confidence, self-expression, and meaningful connection. The conversation serves as both an inspiration and a practical guide for anyone seeking to harness the transformative power of poetry in their lives.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Naisha Randhar [05:33]: "I'm the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas and the author of the book called Roses of Arma."
• Naisha Randhar [08:20]: "Poetry is so important for everybody, I think. But for young people specifically, I think that young people are so often driven away from poetry because of the stigma that surrounds it."
• Naisha Randhar [16:00]: "Honestly, I was literally just like an 11-year-old messing around... I had so much fun during lockdown writing my fantasy novel."
• Naisha Randhar [19:10]: "I think for me, the thing that motivates me and carries me through is just the complete obsession. Because I don't think that I could live without writing."
• Naisha Randhar [25:06]: "After reading poetry, I've seen poetry everywhere and it is really just a matter of looking more."
• Naisha Randhar [38:42]: "Vulnerability is so important to me, and so is authenticity also. It just comes with the job."
• Naisha Randhar [41:44]: "Please try and allow poetry to be an opening rather than a closing... Your syllabus should also represent the kids that you're teaching."
• Naisha Randhar [37:10]: "Poetry is a way to combat that numbness. And it's partially because you have to stop and you have to listen."
• Naisha Randhar [44:13]: "I have a lot of homework to do after this. I'll probably be up pretty late, and I also have my winter formal on Saturday."

Key Takeaways

1. Early Engagement: Introducing poetry to children can spark long-term passion and resilience.
2. Breaking Stigmas: Challenging misconceptions makes poetry more accessible and appealing to youth.
3. Creative Freedom: Allowing poets to explore and express without rigid constraints fosters authentic self-expression.
4. Community Building: Roles like Youth Poet Laureate help in creating supportive literary communities.
5. Emotional Processing: Poetry serves as a vital tool for managing complex emotions and enhancing empathy.
6. Educational Reform: Incorporating diverse and contemporary poets in education promotes inclusivity and relevance.

Final Thoughts

Naisha Randhar's narrative emphasizes that poetry is not merely an artistic endeavor but a fundamental aspect of human connection and personal growth. Her insights advocate for a more inclusive and open-minded approach to both reading and teaching poetry, highlighting its enduring relevance in cultivating confident, thoughtful, and emotionally intelligent individuals.

Transcript

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[Elise Hu]

Hey Ted Talks Daily listeners, I'm Elise Hu. Today we have an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective handpicked by us for you. April is National Poetry Month in the US and this week we're celebrating the ancient and necessary art form by bringing you a recent episode from how to Be a Better Human. Host Chris Duffy speaks with Naisha Randhar, the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas and the author of the book Roses of Arma. Naisha is one of the younger guests that we've had at the TED Audio Collective. She's only a sophomore in high school. In this gorgeous intergenerational conversation, Chris and Naisha talk about the importance of arts education and what it means to truly listen and witness the world around us. How to Be a Better Human is a show that looks in unexpected places for new ways to improve and show up for one another. If you want to hear more insights like this. Listen to how to Be a Better Human wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about the TED audio [e-mail].

[Chris Duffy]

You'Re listening to how to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. We have interviewed a lot of different people on this show, people from all different kinds of backgrounds from all over the world who do all sorts of different incredible, amazing things. But today's guest, Nysha Randa, is the first person in the history of our show who is still currently a high school student. Now Nyesha is so much more than just a high schooler. I don't mean to minimize her by focusing on her age. She's a writer and the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas, where she lives. And Naysha is also someone who believes really deeply in the power and potential of words. For me personally, this is a time and a moment where I am frankly struggling to see the wonder and the beauty in the world around me. And that is part of what I really loved about talking to Naisha. She looks at the world through the eyes of a young person not willing to accept the injustices or the broken pieces of this world. But she also looks at the world through the eyes of a poet, finding the creativity and the art in the everyday. I bet that whatever age you are, you are going to find something really special and personally connect to something that Naisha has to say. Here's a clip from one of her poems.

[Naisha Randhar]

Elegy for JD Souther It's a Tuesday in September. JD Souther is dead. The night is a loud canary on crutches. Everyone's dying, you say. I grieve in the gap of your sentence. Let me slip into other worlds. The ocean floor is always moving, reckless as a flat raccoon in the road. I've hit the point in the harbor where everything is green. From here the stars all look the same. Isn't that a kind of ode? There is a morning in my throat trying to break. You forgot my brother on the subway the way a child forgets a balloon. Isn't that right? We float away like a bedsheet. I bloom in the wind. Grief is a signal of muscle memory. I meet, reopened like a flower I believed you could touch through darkness.

[Chris Duffy]

Here she is, the Youth Poet Laureate of Dallas, Texas, Nycia Randar.

[Naisha Randhar]

Hi, my name is Nysha. I'm a sophomore and author of the book called the Roses of Arma, and I'm the Youth Poet lady of Dallas.

[Chris Duffy]

What got you started in poetry? What sparked your initial interest in Writing poetry and reading poetry.

[Naisha Randhar]

So technically, I've been writing poetry since I was around 7 years old. And it was after I read a book about a girl who was experiencing homelessness when she was 12, and she also wrote poetry to get through that. But I would say that the moments that really sealed the deal for me with poetry was after I became the laureate. So I was already really obsessed with it enough that I wanted to become the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate. But then after I got to actually share my poems and have moments of connection with people, and also, for the first time, realizing that a community of contemporary poetry does exist and that poets are living, breathing people and people that I can also be like, that really made me want to pursue poetry and become a poet.

[Chris Duffy]

Something that it makes me think of is when I was in elementary school, I was, like, obsessed with reference books. Like, I bought all these books or asked for my birthday books that were, like, the most obscure words or superior words. And I would be, like, so excited to learn that, like, defenestrate means the act of throwing someone out a window. It seems like you have a similar excitement about words and the way that you can use a word to mean so many different things and communicate so much nuance.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, absolutely. I love learning about words. It's my favorite thing. And the first time I was getting into poetry. Poetry can be a really intimidating art form to get into because there's so much. There's so much of a narrative around it that, like, you have to be really smart to get it, or you have to be really educated to get it, or if you don't get what it means and poetry isn't for you. So getting into it. I remember that I would start reading a poem, and I would actually get anxiety every time I read that poem because I was so scared of not getting what it meant. But I remember the first time I started truly falling in love with poetry was when I realized that poems were just made up of language. That excited me. And that was, like, such a familiar topic to me because I've been writing since I was really young, and I've been doing fiction poetry for as long as I can remember and storytelling. So, yeah, I'm really fascinated by words and how multifaceted they are and how they can convey so many contradictions, especially within a poem.

[Chris Duffy]

Why do you think that poetry is an important art form for young people in particular to engage with?

[Naisha Randhar]

Poetry is so important for everybody, I think. But for young people specifically, I think that young people are so often driven away from poetry because of the stigma that surrounds it. And they so often, me as well, had like a convoluted view of what poetry actually is. Actually, there was this past national youth poet laureate named Cara Jackson, and I don't want to misquote her, but she said something similar to, like, when teachers allow kids to call poetry boring, they are denying them the right to feel moved. So I think that like, the freedom that comes with poetry, the self expression, but also just the opportunity to like sit with yourself and the world in silence and to recognize yourself and notice yourself for the first time is something that is so important. And I think that kids want that especially like they want to recognize themselves, they want to find themselves. And it can be so reckless to be a teenager who is also into poetry because there's just so much mystery with that existence. There's like you don't have any of the answers in anything. But I also think that's why it's so specifically suited for being a human, of course, but also being a teenager when you're still discovering yourself. Poetry isn't asking for answers. It isn't giving you any answers. It's just allowing you to sit with it and to discover something about yourself in the meantime.

[Chris Duffy]

But I'm curious to get your perspective on why it's important for older people too, for people in middle age or elderly people.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, I mean, part of that is just returning to the. Returning to our instincts. I mean, so many brilliant poets have talked about why they think poetry matters, and it's such an ever evolving conversation. I think that poetry is probably one of the art forms that is closest to the human experience. So one of my favorite poets, Morgan Parker, talked about how poetry is like a sensory overload and how it engages all the senses and people are scared of it because it doesn't necessarily make logical sense, but it still has the ability of being closer to how we actually experience the world, which maybe doesn't make sense or doesn't follow a logical progression, but is more of like a sensory overload. So I feel like in that way people are naturally drawn to poetry because it's so instinctive. And especially in like today's culture where we're covering so much of ourselves up and we live in a culture of that prizes productivity over everything. I think taking a moment to sit with a poem is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself.

[Chris Duffy]

You know, I come at this as a comedian and I think there's a lot of terrible comedy out there. Very, very, very bad comedy. And there's A lot of terrible music. And I think that no one would argue that the existence of bad comedy or bad music means that we shouldn't also appreciate, like, great comedy or great music. Right. And yet I think people do have that feeling a lot of times with poetry, where it's like, yeah, I read three bad poems and I hated them. So now I think poetry is bad.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah.

[Chris Duffy]

And I feel like that's a real loss.

[Naisha Randhar]

It's so funny to me because it's so silly to think you read one poem and you don't like it or you don't get it or whatever, and then you just move on from poetry altogether. Because poetry is so huge, and you can't judge an art form off of one poem. Of course. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's part of what's so intimidating about people. It's easier to say, oh, I read this poem, I didn't like it, and then I'll just move on from it.

[Chris Duffy]

I'm positive that someone is listening to the podcast right now and is saying, like, wow, this is so interesting. I'm sold. But I don't actually read a lot of poetry. I don't actually know poems. So what would you say are some ways that they should get started to find the poems that speak to them?

[Naisha Randhar]

I started with contemporary poetry, so I didn't really know that contemporary poetry existed. And that was life changing for me because it's not, you know, it's English that, like, still is used in today's world. So it's, like, conversational, a lot of it. So it's not as scary to approach it. Okay. My first recommendation would be ADA Limone, who I think has, like, pretty accessible poetry. This is my first reading of her. Bright Dead Things is a really phenomenal collection. And from there I kind of branched out. And I also think it's really important to be patient with yourself. Like you said, reading a poem and not liking it is the same as listening to a song on the radio and not liking it. All you do is change the song. You don't have to get scared about it. So if this specific poet isn't your thing, just keep looking and you'll find someone who is your thing, who you do get on a deeper level.

[Chris Duffy]

That's a great way to start. Honestly, that's great. And I think so often when I talk to people about poetry, the thing that is the barrier isn't even like, oh, I don't like Ada Limone, versus I prefer Billy Collins or something like that. It's like, I thought all poems had to rhyme. I thought all poems were roses are red, violets are blue. That's what a lot of people are starting from, is thinking that that's what poetry is. Is that the limits of poetry?

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, totally. Actually, I think this is kind of a funny thing that was said to me once. Someone said to me, they were like, yeah, no, good and bad poems don't exist. It's just like all poetry, you know, And I thought that was so funny because I think saying that good poems don't exist is also saying that, like, poetry is completely valueless because what's the point of reading poetry if it can't be good? But I think a lot of people do have that mindset of like, oh, poetry is just poetry. Like, what is it even? What does it even mean? You know? And they have like these set expectations. Like you said, oh, it has to rhyme, it has to do this, it has to be that. And actually, poems that are being written are so diverse and different, and sometimes you look at them and you're like, I didn't even know this can be a poem, but it is a poem.

[Chris Duffy]

There's also, you know, this wide range of what is poetry. Of course, right? At the. At the risk of sounding very like classic middle school teacher, I'm like, you know, the lyrics to a song are also poetry. And did you know a lot of rap music is poetry? But, like, that's true in a way. And then also, you know, spoken word is a very specific form of poetry as well as, like written poems. And you have all the historical forms that play around with rigid structures. It is just a really wide swath of literature.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, absolutely. I actually got started, I moved into, like the written poems with spoken word. So I started off, I think sometime in middle school, I would go home every day and I would listen to spoken word poems. And I still really love spoken word. I think they do different things, but, yeah, that's how I sort of transitioned into written poetry.

[Chris Duffy]

I want to talk to you a little bit about the creative process. You published your first book, Roses of Arma, at 1212 years old. I am working on this book right now. It's going to hopefully come out in 2026, and it is a tough process to write a book. So I'm curious to hear, like, what was your creative process? Like, how did you approach it and what did you learn about creativity as you were working on a book?

[Naisha Randhar]

Ooh. Honestly, I was literally just like an 11 year old messing around.

[Chris Duffy]

That's a Great way to do it. Maybe that's the solution.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah. Honestly, just don't take any of it seriously. People always ask me this and I feel this so much because now whenever I sit down to write, it feels more difficult to think of like writing a novel than when I was 11 years old. And I've wanted to write a novel since I was 8. So if you asked me what I wanted to be when I was eight years old, I would have been like the greatest author in the world. And that was literally my genuine serious go to answer. I was like, I'm going to become a millionaire off of books. I'm going to be number one. Yeah. So I wrote like pretty much non stop until I ended up with this book. And I don't even know, I couldn't tell you how it happened. I don't know what led to that book. I literally, I sat down one day just like every other day and I was like, I'm gonna write a book. And all the other days I'd written like maybe 20 pages, 50 pages. At some point I wrote like 280 pages of a book, but none of it had actually ever finished. So this book, it was written during lockdown and I was such an introvert back then that I had a grand old time during lockdown writing my fantasy novel. And I planned out the whole thing for the first time and I don't know, I genuinely just had so much fun writing it. I'm sure there were points where it was so difficult for me to write, but for some reason when I was younger it just came so easy to me as an 11 year old. Which is really fun for me and good for me then I guess.

[Chris Duffy]

Yeah, it makes me think too that I think often when you talk to people about the struggles of a creative process or of writing something or making art or music or whatever, it's often the really hard part is getting out of your own way. I was just doing it right. And it sounds like you're saying a little bit of that too of like as you've gotten older it is harder to get out of your own way.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, totally. And I was so, I don't want to say like arrogant, but I was so delusional about how good I was. I genuinely thought I was the best writer my age in the world. It was not even funny. Like it would be so embarrassing if I met myself now. There was no self doubt. There was nothing stopping me from going to the page. I genuinely just had so much fun doing it. And I also had like A crap ton of time because it was locked down. So I didn't have to worry about that either.

[Chris Duffy]

What do you think is the. The balance between, like, self awareness and that confidence in yourself where, you know, it's good as an artist to have some level of self awareness because then you can edit things and make them better, but you also have to have a little bit of that wild self confidence to think you can actually do it in the first place. So as it sounds like you've changed those dials over the years, what do you think is the ideal dial for yourself? Where are you trying to line them up?

[Naisha Randhar]

I generally don't think that writers are the best judges of their own work. But I mean, for me, I think you do have to have that kind of obsession where, like, even if I'm writing just crap right now, and I'm. I've been writing crap for like, months, I'm still going to keep showing up to see if I can hit that gold mine and then it'll all be worth it. I go through periods as a writer where I think I'm the worst writer in the world. And also periods are like, okay, this isn't so bad. You know, it's like this crazy up and down. I don't know how other writers experience it, but I think for me, the thing that motivates me and carries me through is just the complete obsession. Because I don't think that I could live without writing. I think it's integral to my existence. And there's not a choice of whether I choose poetry today or not. Like, poetry is something that I have to do and I have to make time for. And I think dealing with that kind of sort of veil that you have when you're looking at your own work instead, mostly just bringing it to other people. I also think sometimes there is this feeling that you get, I don't know, whenever you're writing a poem. And I think the best poems are poems that surprise you. So when you're writing a poem and you reach a point where the poem is kind of writing itself and it's doing something unexpected, that's kind of the point where you know that you've hit your mark. So I don't know, I just write for that. And I try not to concern myself too much with what I think of. Like, is this good or not? I try to concern myself more with how it makes me feel and what I am, how I'm responding to it in my body and internally to see if it's something that is worth continuing with.

[Chris Duffy]

We're going to take a quick break, but let me tell you, this episode is worth continuing with. So we will be right back. Don't go anywhere A Real Lemonade Pet Insurance Review by Madison H. You know.

[Naisha Randhar]

I thought it was a little ridiculous to get pet insurance, but I really didn't want to not take my little kitten to the vet because of money. In the last eight months I've taken him in six times because of ear infections and saved literally hundreds of dollars. You may even need to get surgery and I couldn't consider it without Lemonade's help. I recommend Lemonade to all my friends constantly and now I'm recommending it to you.

[Elise Hu]

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[Chris Duffy]

And we are back in 2024, you were named the Dallas Youth Poet Laureate. Can you tell us a little bit about how that happened and what that's meant?

[Naisha Randhar]

I became the Dallas Deep Poet Laureate. I applied when I was 15 years old and I found out about it from Amanda Gorman, who performed at Biden's inauguration in 2021. And she was a National Youth Poet Laureate, but she got there by first being the LA Youth Poet Laureate. So I discovered that from her and after that I decided that that was how I was going to get there. And being Dallas Eve Poet Laureate was kind of a job that I wasn't. That became so much more than I expected. I think in a lot of cities being a laureate can kind of just be a symbolic job, but in Dallas, it really is such a literary community that you're being invited to events so constantly that it can be overwhelming. But it's really special and I'm so grateful that I got to be here.

[Chris Duffy]

What did you learn over the course of playing that role of being the person that people look to when they want to find a youth poet?

[Naisha Randhar]

The most important thing was that poetry is relevant. After becoming laureate, you bring poetry to so many people who probably didn't have experiences with it before, and it's really incredible to see, especially with kids, how they interact with poetry and to like witness them discovering it for the first time. There's this paradox in society where it's like, oh, nobody cares about poetry. Poetry's falling off. Like no one even knows that it exists anymore. And there's also people who are like, poetry is so important. How is it coming back? Why are people reading it more now? With a lot of the interactions that I've had, I've met people and they're always like, yeah, I read poetry when I was in college, or I used to really love poetry, I used to write poems, or I have this favorite poet. And it's just opening my mind to see that so many people genuinely do have so many experiences of poetry and do love poetry. They just didn't have time or the experience to cultivate that. So it's been really incredible to see how we can bring that back in people as laureates.

[Chris Duffy]

Something that I'm struck by in this conversation and also just in general about poetry is the idea that it can help us kind of cultivate this way of looking at the world, of seeing these small amazing things and feeling like awe and wonder. Feelings that I think a lot of us don't necessarily feel on like a day to day basis. What are three things that people who are listening can do to see more of the poetry in the world around them?

[Naisha Randhar]

After reading poetry, I've seen poetry everywhere and it is really just a matter of looking more.

[Chris Duffy]

Well, that you got two right there. Read more poetry, look more.

[Naisha Randhar]

Reading poetry. Of course I think everyone should read poetry. Not to be so like self important, but I do think everyone should read poetry. And I also think that we as people need to be witnesses more than interpreters. So oftentimes when we go out into the world, we're trying to interpret something or find an answer or understand. But the thing about poetry is in order to write a poem that is true or that feels honest, being a witness to something, especially being a witness to yourself and noticing yourself while also noticing the world around you without changing it or feeling the need to manipulate it, is something that fuels poetry. And then also pay more attention, observe more, pay more attention to the people around you, what they're saying. Oftentimes I hear something, I'm like, oh, that belongs in a poem. Or I see something like that's definitely going in a poem. Or I do something really strange and I'm like, okay, this is definitely going in a poem. And then also this is something I do. I don't think everyone has to do this, but in my notes app I take notes of everything that I see. Like, if I see something that belongs in a poem, I write it down. Or if I see something that fascinates me, I write it down so that I have this record that I can later go through with my poems and see, like, what I want to include. And I think, as people, we could also have that record of our daily lives to find the extraordinary in the ordinary moments.

[Chris Duffy]

That is such a good answer. I love that answer. It also makes me think, a poet that I love and you and I have talked about before this interview, Sarah Kay. Sarah Kay has this thing about, like, the universe has already written the poem that you were trying to write. And she has that in a poem where she's describing the way that starlings form the image of a bigger bird. All these small birds making up the image of a bigger bird. And for her, that's the poem that she was trying to write is already out there in the world when these birds fly.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, totally. I mean, poetry is just a failure of trying to translate something else. You know, it's like getting close to something but not being able to pinpoint that exact thing.

[Chris Duffy]

I want to go back to the thing you said about witnessing rather than translating. It strikes me that that's something that our culture doesn't really value. There's a lot of praise and attention paid to people who are willing to give their interpretation. And here's what this means, and here's the black and white version of the facts. Rather than I'm going to just kind of sit with things and see them and not necessarily try and put them in a box or a category.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. I feel like we, as people, could do with bearing witness to things more. I also think it's kind of a coping mechanism for when you see something that maybe threatens you or threatens your beliefs. It's easier just to say, oh, this is what this means, rather than actually looking at what that person is saying and witnessing it for what it is.

[Chris Duffy]

To me, there's also a link here between private and public work. So you can write. It's possible to write poetry and not share it with anyone, but that's not the work that you do. And for me, that's not the work that I do in terms of my creativity. How does it change when you have to kind of, in a way, trust that you're going to be witnessed in the way you want to be witnessed when you put something out there?

[Naisha Randhar]

Since I was 7 years old, I'd been writing poetry privately. So I'd go up to my room and I'd write. And there was never, it never occurred to me that anyone else would ever read that. Of course, my end goal was always to be a public poet. I think part of poetry is engaging in that conversation in that community and like part of the thrill of it is sharing it with people. So I think that's why that was always something that just came so naturally to me. Like, of course I want to do this in the future. I think when you're writing poems, you always have to keep the audience in mind. So that's something that is kind of hard for people to grasp, I think. But when you're writing a poem, you consider how the lines you're writing will affect your audience. So for example, if you have a memory that is particularly impactful for you or meaningful for you, but it doesn't mean anything for somebody else, then including that in a poem and then giving that to the world isn't going to do anything because that's going to be totally meaningless and void for them, even if it is like heart wrenching for you. So that's, I think, the difference. It takes a lot more thought. But that's also where part of the pleasure comes in for me is playing around with that and seeing where we as humans intersect and have that interconnectedness where we can figure out what parts will actually impact the most amount of people due to our humanity.

[Chris Duffy]

We're going to take a quick break, but we will be right back.

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[Chris Duffy]

And we are back. I'm sure that you get this a lot where people say some version of like, wow, you are so like, wise beyond your years, or you seem so, you know, you seem like you've been writing for 30 years or something like that. I bet you people are listening to this and thinking like, I can't believe she's a teenager. And I'm wondering like, can you believe you're a teenager or are you very much like, of course I'm a teenager.

[Naisha Randhar]

It's insane because I get this so much. And I think I've had this experience with Laureating where, you know, as a youth poet laureate, part of what you do is hang out with the youth. You know, you're trying to connect with the young people. And those are people who are my age who are easy to connect with. And I've been able to connect with them differently and on a deeper level, I think through poetry. But also a lot of it is just being the smaller version of the adult poet laureate of Dallas. And so I'll go to a lot of events that are just like mostly adults, which is where we met. And it can be really strange to be surrounded by so many people. I remember going to this reading once and everybody who came up there was like, yeah, I got my MFA from here, got my PhD from here. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm 15, still in high school, and it's been a really weird experience to see how that bridge happens. I also think that I am very much a 15 year old, like I do 15 year old things, I say 15 year old things. I make teenager mistakes just like everyone else my age. And I don't know that I am so much more mature than other people. I just think that I'm more obsessed with something. And so I've dedicated so much of myself to it. And maybe that's what sets me apart. But it's also something that sets all poets apart because all poets are obsessed with poetry and want to learn as much as they can about poetry.

[Chris Duffy]

You know, at this event where we met, I also met. You were there with your dad and your dad was so like wonderful and thoughtful as well. And I wonder how much of this passion for language and for poetry also comes from your family. From your parents.

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, I mean, I've been reading since I was really young and my dad also loves books, but they're both engineers, so they're both very like STEM focused. So when I was younger and now they, they. Well, not as much now. Cause I think they've accepted their fate. But when I was younger they, they were like trying to push me more towards STEM and like trying to get me to go to college for something that was STEM related. And part of that is just because it's more practical. So in some ways I am the black sheep of the family where I'm just so set on not doing that and doing the exact opposite of that. So in some ways, yeah, I think my dad is a big reader and he really loves English. But I also think that I am probably more obsessed with it than he is.

[Chris Duffy]

You just hit on one of the things that I think comes up a lot when people talk about poetry, which is practical, that it's not practical. Where do you fall on the poetry is practical versus poetry is impractical?

[Naisha Randhar]

Well, I think poetry is instinctive. So I don't think it's. At least for me, it's not a choice of whether do I do this, do I not? Like, it doesn't matter if it's practical or not for me. And I also think that since it's a vehicle for allowing us to access or recognize and notice our own humanity and our own interconnectedness, it's the same thing as asking, like, is music practical? You know, like if you're considering how many people are suffering in the world, is art really the thing that's going to change all of that? But I also think that as a society, when people are in so much suffering and when people are so close to losing themselves, art is what comes in and saves people and Allows them to see themselves and see beauty again.

[Chris Duffy]

How do you not ignore the world but also not be completely destroyed by it?

[Naisha Randhar]

Scrolling through social media is so difficult when all you see is just people in so much pain. And then there's also the conflict of, of course I don't want to numb myself to this, but who, in their capacity of one person, can empathize with all of these people and feel this much pain and not be, like you said, totally destroyed by it? So, yeah, I do think that poetry is a way to combat that numbness. And it's partially because you have to stop and you have to listen. And it is something that also already exists within yourself. You're recognizing a part of yourself that already existed. And so it's easier to feel that pain, but also feel the contradictions of what it means to be human. You know, like being in pain, but also being in love and being happy while also grieving.

[Chris Duffy]

Okay, so when I think of my own time as a sophomore in high school, so much of my energy was about not wanting to stand out, was about figuring out, like, how can I possibly fit in and how can I not say something that's going to be used against me? Whereas you are doing something that really, like, puts you out there and puts you in. In the public eye, and that isn't something that everyone else is doing. So when you talk to these other young people, to your peers or to people younger than you in your role as a poet laureate, how do you talk to them about that. That fear and that desire to hide themselves away versus putting themselves out there?

[Naisha Randhar]

Oh, yeah. I actually, I did this laureate event once where I took these high schoolers along a trip around Dallas, basically, and I performed these poems for them. And the scariest people to perform poems for are high schoolers, of course. And I remember these poems were spoken word poems. And they were so vulnerable and so emotional, and it is one of the most intimidating things to get up to a crowd of just silent, blank stares and to give your poem. And I remember giving the first poem and looking at all of them and just seeing nothing on their faces. I'm being so terrified. And later they came up to me and they were like, I really loved your poem. And I was like, really? I couldn't tell. Vulnerability is so important to me, and so is authenticity also. It just comes with the job. So you can't really be a poet if you're afraid to talk about certain things or if you're constantly trying to protect yourself. And part of how I dealt with this, I think I remember wanting to be the youth poet laureate and think about poetry is people don't think it's cool. So you'll be sitting in English class and we'll be talking about a poem, and I'll be so aware that everyone's just like, oh, my God, what are we doing? I'm like, yeah, but I really love this part. I really love this line break. And part of it, I think, was me just being so unaware. I was just not thinking about what they were thinking at all because I was just so happy with what I was doing. And yeah, it is really scary, especially when you're writing poems that talk about certain things that are really personal to you and they might get published one day, or if that's your goal. It's really scary to think everyone in the world, especially your classmates, are going to have access to that. But also part of it is just what are you willing to sacrifice? Like, if you don't do this now, you're sacrificing your dream, you're sacrificing poetry, you're sacrificing your own authenticity. Otherwise, yes, you're risking yourself. You're risking other people thinking you're stupid or dumb, or you're like a nerd or whatever. But you're also so much closer to doing the thing that you truly wanted to do at your very core. So I think it's like a give and take. I'm willing to trade that, and I'm willing to risk someone judging me for being able to do the thing that I love doing the most to its full extent.

[Chris Duffy]

What should. What would you want people to think about? Or what's something you would want to say to teachers as they think about poetry and creativity?

[Naisha Randhar]

I know it's difficult to teach poetry in a school system. Please try and allow poetry to be an opening rather than a closing. So maybe we should stop asking students what a poem means and start asking them things like, how does this poem make you feel? Or what was your reaction to this poem? And also, please don't just teach Robert Frost. Please bring some contemporary poets that are not old white men into the classroom. Because your syllabus should also represent the kids that you're teaching, and they want to know that they exist. So give them that opportunity.

[Chris Duffy]

Okay, what about for parents? What would you say to parents?

[Naisha Randhar]

Don't freak out. Don't be scared. Parents probably have a panic attack when their kid's like, oh, I like poetry. I want to be a poet. Allow your kid to experience themselves and to discover themselves through poetry because it truly is such a magical way to discover yourself and find yourself and also pick up poetry. Like, if your kid is reading it, then maybe you should too.

[Chris Duffy]

So what about someone who is young, they've graduated from college, they're working their first real job, they're kind of being hit with the real world. What would you say to them about poetry and creativity?

[Naisha Randhar]

Poetry is a way for you to remember that the real world exists. And by the real world, I don't mean, you know, your first real job. It is a way for you to remember how to empathize with other people, how to connect with other people, and how to connect with yourself. So if I am going through something that is scary or unknown, I return to poetry because that art is something that is so steadfast in how it connects me to other people who came before me and also humans, humanity, and the community. So that's something that'll never change. And poetry can be that rock for you.

[Chris Duffy]

And then the last question I have is, I'm just genuinely curious because like I said, we have not had someone else in high school before. I'm interviewing you on Thursday afternoon evening. What is next on the agenda for the sophomore version of you as opposed to, like the brilliant poet version of you?

[Naisha Randhar]

Yeah, so I actually have not done any of my homework and all of it has been left to tonight. I. It takes me like 40 minutes to get home. So I got home and I started preparing for the interview straight away because my school ends at 4. So, yeah, I have a lot of homework to do after this. I'll probably be up pretty late, and I also have my winter formal on Saturday. Wow.

[Chris Duffy]

I'm so sorry that we kept you from both homework and formal prep, and I really appreciate you making the time. That is. That is incredibly generous. Thank you.

[Naisha Randhar]

No, thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

[Chris Duffy]

That is it for this episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Naisha Randar. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including my weekly news newsletter and other [e-mail] how to be a Better Human is put together by a team of people who are almost all younger than me, but still older than Naisha. On the TED side, we've got Daniela Balorazzo, Banban Cheng, Chloe Shasha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Antonio Ley, and Joseph de Bruyne. This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson. And Mattea Salas who think that the most poetic phrase of all is fact checks out. On the PRX side, they make beautiful poetry out of garbled audio. I'm talking about Morgan Flannery, Nor Gill, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. Please share this episode with a friend or family member who you think would enjoy it. We will be back with more next week. Thanks again.

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