Sunday Pick: How Texas became America’s biggest producer of wind energy | Speed & Scale

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: TED Talks Daily
Episode: Sunday Pick: How Texas became America’s biggest producer of wind energy | Speed & Scale
Date: October 5, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Panchatsaram & Anjuli Grover
Guest: Pat Wood (Former Chair, Texas Public Utility Commission)
Main Theme:
Exploring how Texas—widely known for its oil and gas industry—unexpectedly became the nation's leader in wind energy production, transforming its power grid and serving as a model for large-scale clean energy transition.

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1. Episode Overview

This episode launches the "Speed & Scale" podcast series. Hosts Ryan Panchatsaram and Anjuli Grover investigate little-known success stories in the clean energy transition, starting with Texas. They focus on how bipartisan policy, smart economics, and community input enabled Texas to become the leading producer of wind energy in the U.S., defying political stereotypes. The story is driven by Pat Wood, a Texan with deep roots in oil country, who played a pivotal policy role under then-Governor George W. Bush.

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. The 2021 Texas Power Outage & Misplaced Blame

• [03:00–04:16]
  • Hosts recall the 2021 winter storm that caused millions of outages.
  • Texas's grid, mostly powered by natural gas, failed during the cold. Politicians blamed renewables, but the core issue was natural gas plants freezing.
  • "So natural gas let us down." — Anjuli Grover (04:16)
  • Attempts to pass anti-renewable bills after the crisis mostly failed, showing renewables’ entrenched economic value.

B. The Surprising Scale of Wind Energy in Texas

• [04:30–06:38]
  • About a quarter of Texas's grid now runs on wind; Texas leads the nation in wind energy.
  • The hosts set up their investigation: how did oil-dominated Texas pull off this green transition?

C. Pat Wood’s Background: An Oil Town Texan Turned Clean Energy Architect

• [07:21–08:24]
  • Pat Wood grew up in an oil refinery town, never considering renewables.
  • "Just growing up there, I assumed every town had their own refinery." — Pat Wood (08:24)
  • His connection to energy was practical and personal, not ideological.

D. Policy Turning Point: Entering Wind by Directive

• [09:33–10:39]
  • In the 90s, Wood was head of the Texas Public Utility Commission under Governor Bush.
  • Bush unexpectedly instructed Wood to "get smart" on wind energy.
  • "I was like, wind? That's like Birkenstock and Volvo driving people in California. What do I have to do with that?" — Pat Wood (10:30)

E. Deliberative Polling and Texans' Preferences

• [10:52–13:30]
  • Texas law required utilities to consult customers. Wood used "deliberative polling"—gathering a diverse group, giving them information, and recording their informed preferences.
  • Energy efficiency and renewables both emerged as top priorities statewide.
  • Memorable quote:
    "Pat, we gotta clean up the goddamn air. ... we need to get more of this renewable energy." — 'Smokin' Jim', Texas customer (12:50, relayed by Pat Wood)

F. Making Policy: The Birth of Texas’s Renewable Portfolio Standard

• [14:43–16:09]
  • Results went directly into Senate Bill 7 (1999), requiring utilities to add 2,000 megawatts of renewables over 10 years.
  • "So just like that, they pass a bill. No political drama."
    — Anjuli Grover (15:59)
  • Texas outpaced New York and even California on renewable mandates.

G. Economics and Nonpartisan Appeal

• [16:30–19:30]
  • George W. Bush’s rural West Texas roots made him favor wind for its practicality.
  • Wood explains his own drive: not environmental idealism, but fairness—leveling the playing field for new industry.
  • "This was a new industry and a new technology that was being kind of elbowed to the side ... that's just not who we are. We don't pick on new people." — Pat Wood (17:19)
  • Wind and solar quickly became the cheapest sources of power as scale ramped up (wind: 2001–2002; solar: a decade later).

H. Critical Infrastructure: Building Transmission (‘Field of Dreams’)

• [19:38–21:21]
  • Transmission was the critical missing piece: Texas invested $7 billion (2007–2013) to connect wind-rich remote areas with demand centers.
  • "If you build it, they will come. We called it Field of Dreams." — Pat Wood (19:58)
  • Each Texan paid about $300; the investment returned fivefold; driven by cost savings, not ideology.

I. Non-Ideological Framing and Community Benefits

• [21:48–22:42]
  • Both Republican Governor Rick Perry and the legislature saw financial and consumer benefits.
  • "It was better for Texas customers who were paying their bills. And oh, by the way, it happened to be better for the air." — Pat Wood (21:48)

J. Reflections on Motivation and Social Justice

• [23:12–25:56]
  • Wood rejects the label of “climate activist.”
  • His motivation: non-discrimination and bringing new industry to the table.
  • "You could name 20 things, titles. I wouldn't get that [climate activist] in my top 20." — Pat Wood (23:12)
  • His upbringing in a desegregating, diverse Texas town shaped his worldview.
  • "We benefit so much more by having a lot of different voices at the table and a lot of different technologies and players around the table. That's what makes us strong." — Pat Wood (24:11)

K. Real Impact: Texas’s Emissions Fell Despite Population Growth

• [26:49–27:08]
  • Wind and solar cut Texas’s grid emissions by over 25%, even as the grid grew.

L. Ongoing Challenges: Oil, Gas, and Next Steps

• [27:08–28:07]
  • Petroleum and petrochemicals still grow—overall CO2 emissions in Texas are not falling, even as power sector emissions decrease.
  • Texas must now tackle transportation and industry decarbonization.

M. Key Takeaways: The Replicable Texas Model

• [28:07–28:36]
  • "Clean energy is both a smart business decision and a smart climate decision." — Anjuli Grover (28:07)
  • Texas’s success boils down to a simple, replicable playbook:
    • Add renewables
    • Build the necessary transmission
    • Focus on economic wins (not ideology)
  • 32 states now have standards like Texas; 18 more to go.

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Texas’s relationship with energy:

  • "Just growing up there, I assumed every town had their own refinery."
    — Pat Wood (08:24)

• Governor Bush's wind energy order:

  • "We like wind. ...Now go get smart on it."
    — George W. Bush (relayed by Pat Wood, 10:30)

• On Texans’ support for renewables:

  • "Pat, we gotta clean up the goddamn air. ...we need to get more of this renewable energy."
    — ‘Smokin’ Jim’ from Beaumont, Texas (relayed by Pat Wood, 12:50)

• On social justice and energy innovation:

  • "We benefit so much more by having a lot of different voices at the table and a lot of different technologies and players around the table. That's what makes us strong."
    — Pat Wood (24:11)

• On bipartisan, pragmatic framing:

  • "It was very non ideological. ...It was better for Texas customers who were paying their bills. And oh, by the way, it happened to be better for the air."
    — Pat Wood (21:48)

• On the core of Texas’s energy transition:

  • "The virtue of this whole story is that the renewable energy happens to be the cheapest energy. ...Thank you God for that win win you gave us, because we're going to take it to the mat and go all the way."
    — Pat Wood (25:47)

• On how the story reframes 'red vs green' assumptions:

  • "This like totally shatters every stereotype or preconception of where clean energy gets deployed the best."
    — Ryan Panchatsaram (26:12)

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4. Timestamps for Key Segments

• 2021 Texas blackouts & policy blame game: 03:00–04:30
• How wind achieved scale in Texas: 04:30–06:38
• Pat Wood’s personal story & entry into energy policy: 07:21–10:39
• Deliberative polling: Texans’ voice for renewables: 10:52–13:30
• Senate Bill 7 & policy breakthrough: 14:43–16:09
• Transmission build-out ('Field of Dreams'): 19:38–21:21
• Motivations: Not an activist, but a fairness champion: 23:12–25:56
• Results: Emissions cut from the grid: 26:49–27:08
• Replication & final reflections: 28:07–end

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5. Summary Takeaways

• Texas’s wind revolution wasn’t driven by environmental idealism—but by bipartisan pragmatism, economic opportunity, and listening to ordinary Texans.
• Smart transmission infrastructure and a "build it and they will come" ethos helped unleash private investment.
• The success of the Texas model—RWAs, policies, and market signals—can be replicated nationwide, provided the focus stays on consumer benefits and economic logic.

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This episode upends the popular narrative around clean energy, showing that rapid climate action can emerge in conservative strongholds when driven by local benefits and sound economics. The Texas story reminds us that with the right mix of policy, infrastructure, and community engagement, the clean energy transition is possible—anywhere.

Transcript

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[Anjuli Grover]

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[Pat Wood]

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[Pat Wood]

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[Elise Hu]

TED Talks Daily listeners Elise Hu here. Today, we're excited to share with you the first episode of a new podcast from TED called Speed and Scale. Here's a new climate story. The biggest solutions to our climate crisis exist all around us, but they're hiding in plain sight. Join hosts Ryan Panchatsaram and Anjali Grover as they identify the greatest climate wins unfolding across the world. They'll chat with the people, tackling the issues quickly, efficiently and at scale that actually make a difference. In this first episode of the series, we head to Texas, my home state in the US where they share the surprising story of how Texas, which is rich in oil and gas, became America's biggest wind energy producer and a model for supercharging the clean energy transition. They speak with Pat Wood, once president George W. Bush's right hand man, and ask the question, what's possible for the planet and consumers and for policy if partisan politics don't stand in the way? To hear more inspiring stories about the people who are accelerating solutions to the world's greatest climate challenges, tune in to Speed and Scale wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about ted's [e-mail].

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Hey, Anjali.

[Anjuli Grover]

Hi, Rin.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Do you remember when Texas had that really bad storm a few years ago?

[Anjuli Grover]

I think so. Remind me what happened.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

You know, it was 2021 and I remember, I remember it so vividly because I was calling friends who lived in Houston and they'd lost power. And what was crazy, Ange, is they weren't alone. Millions of other people had lost power.

[Pat Wood]

I guess Texas is having blackouts because of how cold it is, which right now I think it's 7 degrees. I just woke up to a cold.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

House because we have no power.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

It's Monday morning.

[Pat Wood]

I think it's like in the 20s, and then tomorrow is supposed to be worse.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

When the power went out, people were really angry and they wanted to find out why it happened and especially who was at fault. And it's important to know that Texas is powered mostly by natural gas. And of course it's got solar and wind and nuclear, but natural gas is the bulk of it. But Texas Republicans, including Governor Abbott, saw this as an opportunity to single out renewables as the cause for these blackouts. Some wind turbines went offline and suddenly wind energy became the bad guy, when in fact, the natural gas plants which provided most of Texas's electricity weren't built to withstand the cold and their equipment froze. So when they got hit, the grid got hit big time.

[Anjuli Grover]

So natural gas let us down.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

That's right. But Republicans jumped on this opportunity to introduce a bunch of anti renewable bills. But guess what? Almost none of them passed.

[Anjuli Grover]

Okay, how come?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Well, because wind is big business in Texas. About a quarter is powered by wind. Anjali. Texas has the largest amount of wind energy in the United States.

[Anjuli Grover]

Wow, 25% of their grid is powered by wind. How did that happen?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Well, Ang, just wait. You're going to love this story. Hi, everyone. I'm Ryan Panchatsram.

[Anjuli Grover]

And I'm Anjuli Grover. Welcome to Speed and Scale, a podcast from Ted. This is the show where we focus on the best strategies to tackle climate change. We know the headlines are scary. We know climate change can feel overwhelming. This is the show that cuts through the fear to face things Head on.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

We'll dig into the obstacles we're up against. We'll celebrate the wins, and we'll talk to people in unexpected places, all while focusing on the things that we can speed up and scale up.

[Anjuli Grover]

Speaking of which, in 2021, we helped write the book Speed and Scale. It lays out an action plan for solving our climate crisis. We spoke to a bunch of people, including climate experts and industry leaders. We wanted people to hear what we were hearing, that there's still opportunities out there to draw down emissions.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

And for a quick explainer, when we say emissions, we're talking about greenhouse gases that trap heat in our atmosphere. Gases like carbon, methane, and nitrous oxide. They come from a variety of sources, like driving your car or growing the food you eat. And they're often grouped together under one umbrella term, carbon emissions.

[Anjuli Grover]

Yeah, and these carbon emissions are so massive, they are measured in gigatons. One gigaton is about 2.2 trillion pounds.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

A gigaton is a lot.

[Anjuli Grover]

So if we're serious about making a dent in this problem, the gigatons are what we're after. In this show, we've mapped out where the gigatons of pollution are coming from. And we're bringing you the most impactful solutions to tackle climate change at scale. We're starting with electricity, because it's the single largest source of emissions worldwide. Then we're going to tackle deforestation, transportation, carbon removal, and so much more.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Today, we're bringing you a story about the U.S. power grid, because the power grid alone generates a quarter of the United States carbon emissions. And we're going to go to a place that I never. Texas, the state that epitomizes oil and gas, is now the biggest producer of wind in the U.S. let me repeat that. The biggest producer of wind in the United States is Texas. So how did a deep red Texas turn, well, you could say a shade of green.

[Anjuli Grover]

Okay, Ryan, what's the deal with Texas? Did it really turn green?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Well, Ange, I needed to find that out myself, so I called around and I got introduced to Pat Wood. This is the guy in charge of Texas's Public Utility Commission, or PUC for short. This is the agency that regulates utilities. And, Ange, this guy was really cool.

[Anjuli Grover]

Like cool for a regulator or cool cool?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Like cool cool. And I wanted to talk to him because back in the 90s, he was the guy who helped write the policy that actually required Texas to build renewable energy. But I also wanted to talk to him because he started out not wanting to do anything with renewable energy. The Guy grew up close to the town where oil was discovered, and then his boss was former Republican President George W. Bush.

[Anjuli Grover]

Huh.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

So I kind of walked into this interview not knowing what to expect. How does this guy become responsible for bringing wind to Texas? And Anjali, it turns out Pat has had a long relationship with energy, something that started out when he was just a kid.

[Pat Wood]

My grandfather was the head of the Gulf Oil refinery there in Port Arthur for my whole life. I was Tom Hogan's grandson. And my grandmother Hogan would we drive through the plants. This is before the Clean Air act went into place. And she'd go, that's good old bread and butter. And I just. I never understood that until I was old enough to understand bread. Butter meant money. But it was like, that doesn't smell like bread, and it sure as hell doesn't smell like butter. Smells like kind of noxious sulfur. But, you know, just growing up there, I assumed every town had their own refinery. I mean, just. It's one of those things I would just never understand. When my friend Jeff would come over from San Mateo, and I always would ask him, well, where's what, Charles Refinery? You know, what brand are y'? All? It's like, are y' all Golf or Texaco or mobile or what? You know, it's like, we don't have a refinery. We're in California. I'm like, oh, well, that's weird.

[Anjuli Grover]

That is so Texan.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

It's so endearing, his relationship with energy.

[Anjuli Grover]

Yeah.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I think it makes sense, like, why Texans are so connected to it.

[Anjuli Grover]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what's the turning point? When does Pat go from daydreaming about refineries to scaling up wind?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Yeah. So when Pat was in his 30s, he was nominated by the governor, George Bush, to be the head of the Texas Public Utility Commission. In other words, he's the guy in charge of Texas electricity, and that's where he first heard about wind.

[Pat Wood]

Well, in those days, I would be down in Governor Bush's office every, say, three weeks or so to ask him advice about something. And one day, I was in his office talking about something else, and I walked out the door. And back in those days, you wore ties. And I had, of course, suspenders because it was the 90s, and I was a Republican yuppie, and so it was just kind of the thing. But I remember walking out that door like it was yesterday. And Bush goes, hey, Wood. Yes, sir. We like wind. And I looked at him, I was like, what? He goes, you heard me? Now go get smart on it. So I was just like honestly depressed because I was like wind. I mean that's like Birkenstock and Volvo driving people in California. What do I have to do with that?

[Anjuli Grover]

So what did Pat have to do with that?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Well, so Pat is now on this quest to make wind energy an important player on the Texas grid. And it turns out Texas had a law that guided Pat in the right direction.

[Pat Wood]

This 95 law said that the utilities have to consult their customers about energy issues.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

And to do this consultation, utilities have this tool called deliberative polling.

[Pat Wood]

And what it does is let's educate people about the issues and ask them their opinion after they're informed of all the pros and cons. Cons. So what it was was a three day weekend, like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 260 some odd customers were there learning about the issues. Beautiful cross section of Texas and age and diversity and ideology. I participated in as a panelist for big groups, small groups and some of these rooms. There was a one way glass that I could look through so I could. It was fascinating, I mean just to see Texas at its best and rawest talking through all these issues. That was like the real world.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Anjali, this is so cool. Deliberative polling is this technique where you get to bring a group of people together and have them debate and learn and then ultimately ask them how they feel about an issue.

[Anjuli Grover]

Yeah, it feels strangely democratic. It feels like it's the way it's supposed to all work.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Honestly, I don't think it happens as often as it should.

[Pat Wood]

The funny thing that came out of this Ryan, was that of all the things that were pulled, two things really stood out and rose to the top. One was energy efficiency. Customers really got and understand the need for conservation. And then the second thing, which was of course the total shock to me was renewable energy. Customers in Texas, uniformly in every section of the state, said they loved renewable energy.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

That's amazing. Do you have any stories or examples of maybe one of the customers?

[Pat Wood]

I distinctly remember walking outside of the deliberative pole one day and an older man, I remember his name was Jim, I don't remember his last name, was out there having a cigarette and he, I said, what are you thinking about things, Jim? And he got that finger and he put it on my chest with that smoke blowing in my eyes right under his hand. He said, pat, we gotta clean up the goddamn air. It needs to be cleaned up and we need to get more of this renewable energy. And I thought, man, that couldn't be any better said than from smokin. Jim in Beaumont, Texas. It was just one of those moments you'll never forget.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

We need some more goddamn renewable energy.

[Anjuli Grover]

Ryan, love that.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I really needed to know, how did Jim get so convinced that renewable energy was important? What made him embrace it?

[Pat Wood]

It's something that hit Jim and me being from southeast Texas pretty clearly that, you know, energy's absolutely essential to our way of life. And I would look at what resonated with people is the renewable energy's here, it's Texan, it's blowing from God's breath and his shining off his face that's coming to us for free. Aren't we smart enough to take something free and do something good with it? And I really do think that that kind of resonates with people on all parts of the political spectrum is it's about the technology and the joy of embracing something that is new and is positive, and it's free. And, gosh, why can't we figure that out? And so we did.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

And what did you do with the.

[Pat Wood]

Results at the end of this? I reported the data to the governor.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

What he said?

[Pat Wood]

He said, well, what do you think he said? He put those glasses on and looked over it closely and got to the bottom and looked over those glasses because there's those little half glasses. So he kind of looked up. You've probably seen him do this as president. And he said, woody told you. And he just laughed at laugh. He does. And I said, well, gosh. He goes, well, this needs to be in our bill. I said, well, what? He goes, they want conservation. They want renewable energy. That needs to be in our bill. So that's when I went out to figure out, what did we do about both?

[Anjuli Grover]

So what did Pat do about both? What happened?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Well, it was a lot simpler than I thought. Pat took all this information and he put it into an energy bill, and it made utilities use a certain amount of renewables.

[Pat Wood]

Senate Bill 7, signed by Governor George W. Bush in 1999, set up the Renewable Portfolio Standard program, which said the state wants to add 2,000 megawatts of renewable energy over the next 10 years.

[Anjuli Grover]

So just like that, they pass a bill. No political drama.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I guess there's always political drama, but Texas got this done before New York, before even California.

[Anjuli Grover]

That's insane. I'm still confused, though, as to why Bush signed this into law.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I know. So I asked him this exact question for George Bush, the governor, what were his motivations? Because in a lot of ways, this took, I imagine, some political capital to do. And so from his point of view share what his motivations were.

[Pat Wood]

Governor Bush grew up in Midland, Texas, and Midland is really a very windy spot. I go there now and again, and it is hair blowing back kind of place. You get off the airplane and there's just a lot of wind. And so he knew that that was a really vibrant resource, that that could actually be captured into electricity. So he knew that just kind of intrinsically, as a West Texan, you know, Bush's instincts obviously were driven by the politics of Texas, which are he's a Republican governor, but he's got kind of a split Senate and a Democratic House. So a lot of stuff got done toward the middle on education, on prisons, on tax reform, and on energy issues.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

What was the moment when that bill passed to see that mandate pass in Texas? What did that mean to you?

[Pat Wood]

You know, it's funny, it wasn't a passion of mine. Renewable energy was not virtuous or all these other things that were, I think, have been attributed to it. I cared about it because I've got this penchant to care about people getting discriminated against. And this was a new industry and a new technology that was being kind of elbowed to the side by the big gas, big coal, and nuke in the traditional utilities. And it's just like, I mean, that's just not who we are. We don't pick on new people. We invite them to the party. So let's level that playing field so these guys can compete. Honestly, Ryan, it wasn't this victory of clean versus traditional. It just was that a new technology got a chance to win or lose based on its merits. And boy, did they ever win.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

So the renewable energy standard got things started. But how did the renewables win, as you say? When did the wind and solar revolution really take off?

[Pat Wood]

The real boom started in about 2001 and 2, and wind was just trucking full speed ahead in its lane because it saw this wide open opportunity in Texas. Lot of land, easy to interconnect, no need to get a regulatory permit. Great wind resource. And boom, it just took off. Solar was probably a decade later, and then batteries, which I'm doing now for my day job, is probably a decade behind that. And so each of those have started off expensive and then gotten cheaper, dramatically cheaper over kind of short period of time, and gotten to the point where wind and solar now are the two cheapest ways to produce electricity. And I mean, that happened in what, 25 years, Ryan? That's pretty phenomenal.

[Anjuli Grover]

This is. This is amazing. One thing I'm missing about all of this is when you generate power, you still have to find a way to transmit it. So how do they do that?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I definitely asked him about that. And Texas had a solution, a brilliant one. So wind is ramping up, solar is ramping up. But how does the state deal with transmission? Does it pass more policies? I mean, you have to get all of this energy from the rural, windy, sunny areas to where people live.

[Pat Wood]

The transmission expansion is a very important piece. I'm glad you identified that because if we don't expand the transmission, we don't get there. So in 2005, the state legislator who I was friends with, David Swinford, called me up and said, hey Pat, I've got this idea. We're building a lot of kind of great wind facilities in kind of B minus places on the grid when we've got all this A plus wind that's just sitting there trapped. And so we're going to, we're going to figure out where those A areas are and build the infrastructure to get there. So basically the short story on that is if you build it, they will come. We called it Field of dreams. From 2007 to 2013, the transmission project was built $7 billion to connect about 18,000 megawatts of new resources. So the entire west Texas grid effectively got beefed up.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

This is so critical. Basically what Pat was saying is that they went and found the windiest places and said, we're going to first build power lines there. And by doing that, it incentivized companies to build right next to them. And just like you said, if you build it, they will come.

[Anjuli Grover]

I'm sure I sound like a broken record, Ryan, but I can't believe how logical this is. They were thinking ahead. It's shockingly rare.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

It was incredible planning. It was so logical. But it was also expensive. You know, this cost Texans about $300 each. So I was shocked that there was enough political capital for this plan to pass. So I asked him politically, how on earth did this get passed?

[Pat Wood]

Rick Perry was governor and understood the importance of developing our own resources here. The return by having lower cost renewable electricity on our grid would pay for the $7 billion investment five times over in 10 years. So that's like putting down a nickel to get a quarter. It was very non ideological. It certainly wasn't wrapped in what is kind of now today become this. Renewables are left and you know, polluting fossil fuels are right. It was better for Texas customers who were paying their bills. And oh, by the way, it happened to be better for the air. And oh, by the way, it happened to be better for technology too, but at the beginning it was better for the wallet.

[Anjuli Grover]

So that's a twist. I was thinking it was just going to be some huge money suck, but it actually is an investment that makes a ton of sense, has real returns.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Totally. So much of this financially was the way to go.

[Anjuli Grover]

Okay. But to be fair, this must have also taken some hand holding, like wind and solar couldn't have just started up on their own. There must have been some upfront costs.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

And that's why I thought Pat might have had another motive. Do you think of yourself as a climate activist being responsible for the largest deployment of clean energy?

[Pat Wood]

I absolutely do not think of myself as a climate activist. I mean, that's just not. I would not. That would. You could name 20 things titles. I wouldn't get that in my top 20.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

Pat, what are you.

[Pat Wood]

Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't. You asked me stuff I've never been asked in my entire life. Wow. Let me just think about that question, Ryan, because I'm going to get it right. What am I? I'm a kid who grew up where a lot of injustice happened. Yeah. I grew up in a town where we. 1970, we desegregated the public schools. And my parents were very involved in the desegregation movement from the, from the supportive side. And you know, some of the people in our town moved to all white cities nearby or places where their kids wouldn't have to go to school with minority kids. And you know, I was taught in my church and about my parents that that's not what Jesus would do. So we stayed in Port Arthur and you know, I grew up in a very diverse environment and I love that. And I think that formed who I am and it's formed my opinions about, you know, we benefit so much more by having a lot of different voices at the table and a lot of different technologies and players around the table. That's what makes us strong. So that's kind of who I am, you know, I guess I'm a social justice warrior of my own type. I laugh at that term, thinking of like AOC and those kind of people. But you know, at the end of the day, the day I think all the things that I tried to do as a regulator that are having, I think, beneficial impact today derived from the fact that I was hell bent to implement the statute that required non discrimination. And that's what got us where we are today. So I think if you had to say, what am I today? I'm just a lawyer who tried to do what the law told me to do on being non discriminatory. And so again, the virtue of this whole story is that the renewable energy happens to be the cheapest energy. And so thank you God for that win win you gave us because we're going to take it to the mat and go all the way. And you know, I think we have here and I think the rest of the country can do the same. Same.

[Anjuli Grover]

Ryan, to be honest, I really didn't think that you were going to tell me anything. I didn't know, but I just, I'm reeling. I can't believe this happened in the 90s. I can't believe it happened in Texas. I can't believe it happened under a Republican governor that would go on to become a Republican president.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I know this like totally shatters every stereotype or preconception of where clean energy gets deployed the best. Seriously, I totally would have expected this to happen in California, someplace else. This really turns my world upside down.

[Anjuli Grover]

The other thing that I really can't believe, and Ryan, we work in climate day in, day out. How on earth have we not heard this story?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

That's a great question. Why didn't we hear about this? And I think it's because this has become such a partisan issue. That's the loudest voice in the room. And to be quite honest, you just have to go look at the data and the data itself is what cuts through.

[Anjuli Grover]

So I'm still wondering because, Ryan, you started looking out for a story that brought down emissions from the grid. So did Texas succeed in doing this?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

It absolutely did. Their deployment cut emissions from the grid by over a quarter.

[Anjuli Grover]

Wow. I'm speechless.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

And you gotta remember, Ange, Texas was growing that entire time.

[Anjuli Grover]

This to me feels like the most unexpected part of the whole story. So Texas scales up wind and it reduces fossil fuels needed for the grid. That's just so incredible. But Ryan, something's not checking out. Texas is an oil and gas state. So what about all that oil and gas? That's not going away, is it?

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

That's right. Texas has got a ton of oil and gas and unfortunately they're drilling more and building more petrochemical plants. So when you look at Texas's overall CO2 levels, not just from the grid, those have been going up. And so Texas has a lot of work to do on electrifying its transportation and cleaning up its industry. But I do think at the end of the day, this is a story about opportunity you know, I was struck by just Pat's hunger and mentality. Right. You build it, they will come. And somewhere along the way, renewables became a polarizing political topic. But at that point, they were too profitable to go away.

[Anjuli Grover]

It proves, I think, that clean energy is both a smart business decision and a smart climate decision.

[Ryan Panchatsaram]

I think Texas did so many things right and their playbook was simple. Add renewables to the grid and then make sure you connect them. Find the windiest places, find the sunniest places. These are things other states can easily copy. And I did a little research and I found that 32 states have standards like what Texas put into place.

[Anjuli Grover]

So just 18 more to go. Speed and Scale is a podcast from ted. It's hosted by me, Anjuli Grover and Ryan Panchatsaram. The episode was produced by Sarah Craig from Pushkin Industries, production support from Tali Emlen. This show is edited by Banban Chang and our fact checkers are Julia Dickerson, Kate Williams and Jen Nam. The show is sound, designed and mixed by Hansel Shi. Our executive producers are Daniela Balarezo and Cansanza Gallardo. Special thanks to Jonathan Mallow and Roxanne. Hi Lash. Knock knock.

[Pat Wood]

Ooh, who's there?

[Boost Mobile Expert]

A Boost Mobile expert here to deliver and set up your all new iPhone 17 Pro designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

[Boost Mobile Customer]

You call that a knock knock joke?

[Boost Mobile Expert]

This isn't a joke. Boost Mobile really sends experts to deliver and set up your phone at home or work.

[Boost Mobile Customer]

Okay. It's just that when people say knock knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Like I said, this isn't a joke.

[Boost Mobile Customer]

So the knock knock was just you knocking?

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Yeah, that's how doors work.

[Boost Mobile Customer]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro delivered and set up by an expert wherever you are. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com, terms apply.

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