Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: TED Talks Daily (Sunday Pick via "How to Be a Better Human")
Episode: How to have curious conversations in dangerously divided times (w/ Mónica Guzmán)
Host: Chris Duffy
Guest: Mónica Guzmán, journalist & author, Senior Fellow at Braver Angels
Date: September 14, 2025

Main Theme:
This episode explores strategies for having open, genuinely curious conversations across political and ideological divides. Mónica Guzmán draws from her personal life, professional experience, and her book "I Never Thought of It That Way" to suggest concrete tools for dialogue in polarized times. The episode focuses on why curiosity is essential, how stereotypes hinder understanding, and what practical steps can help us build trust and bridge divides—even without agreeing.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Host’s Journey and the Challenge of Curiosity

• Chris Duffy reflects on negative feedback from a previous episode about political divides, admitting:

  “Every single one of the questions that I asked was some version of ‘how do I convince conservatives to realize that they're wrong and I'm right?’… I was being a condescending jerk.” (04:06)

2. Mónica’s Personal Background (Family Divides)

• Mónica shares her experience as a Mexican immigrant in a politically divided family—her parents voted for Trump, while she voted Democrat. She often uses this story to challenge assumptions in her liberal Seattle circles:

  “I would tell groups of my fellow Seattle liberals… my parents... are Mexican immigrants who voted for Donald Trump.” (05:16)

• Purpose: to test whether people would ask “why?” rather than retreat.

3. Why We Should Have Difficult Conversations

• Mónica:

  “We're so divided, we're blinded... We're seeing a lot of malevolence when it isn't quite there... Every time we decide we can't talk about politics, that's one more place of friction between difference that goes away. But… we're seeing the world as a projection instead of what it really is.” (10:48)

4. Puzzles vs. Mysteries: How We Stereotype Others

• We treat others as “puzzles” (solvable if missing facts) vs. “mysteries” (complex, ever-unfolding), missing their uniqueness.
• Mónica:

  “When we stereotype... we're treating people like puzzles.... But that's not how human beings work... We are extraordinarily deep mysteries. To try to understand a mystery from a distance is sort of the tragedy of the moment.” (12:48)

5. The Futility of Persuasion as an Immediate Goal

• Trying to persuade or change someone typically fails; deep opinions have roots in life experience.
• Mónica:

  “The reason that persuasion is not something that I recommend... One, it doesn't work... In order for that to work, you can't be trying to change them, because... trying to change people is a way of saying that we don't accept them the way they are.” (14:28)

6. Truth vs. Trust

• Information doesn’t convince when there’s no trust; exchanging articles rarely changes minds.
• Mónica introduces a framework (from Buster Benson):
  • Conversations across disagreement occur about what is true, what is meaningful, and what is useful.

• “We all want to have the conversation about what is true… But… instead what you do is… ask about the concerns behind that… There's always truth in their stories.” (17:18)

7. “Intuit Moments” (I Never Thought of It That Way)

• The reward of curiosity is having one’s perspective expanded.
• Mónica:

  “‘I never thought of it that way’... is proof that some perspective has crossed that chasm between someone else's mind and your own.... The way to get those moments is to have more curious conversations.” (19:34)

8. Addressing Fears and Barriers

• Many fear that curiosity means conceding to hateful or extreme views.
• Mónica counters:

  “Why do we keep going to the worst case scenario?... We're so afraid—afraid of the monster hiding behind our neighbor… The only ask here is to be one step more curious... Maybe don't start with ‘bridging the devil.’ Start with smaller bridges.” (22:24)

9. The Power of Small Bridges

• Engagement can start safely, not with the most polarizing figures.
• Paraphrasing John Powell’s advice:

  “Do the short bridges. Someone who agrees with you on everything except this one thing.” (22:24)

10. False Certainty & Missing Nuance

• We often assume everyone we know agrees with us or is more extreme than reality.
• Mónica shares an anecdote about hidden nuance in close friendships:

  “She discovered that her pro-life friend believes in exceptions... she always assumed her friend was so pro life that she would want to ban abortion in absolutely all cases... How much are we missing when we don't get curious?” (29:40)

11. Where to Start: Finding Conversation Partners

• Don’t assume everyone close to you fully agrees; invite nuance into regular conversations.

  “How might we be assuming agreement and could we invite nuance into that presumed agreement?” (31:49)

• Online, seek genuine communities—not trolling or dopamine-chasing—where dialogue is possible.

12. The “Conversation Meter” : Five Dials

• Mónica’s framework for optimizing dialogue:
  1. Time – Is there enough?
  2. Attention – Are both present/focused?
  3. Parity – Is power/platform balanced?
  4. Containment – Is the conversation private/safe or subject to outside scrutiny?
  5. Embodiment – Are you bringing your full communication toolkit (facial, tone, body, not just words)?
• She cautions that social media is the “boss level” for dialogue; model openness and humility. (33:59–37:20)

13. Meaning Is in People, Not Words

• Avoid fixating legalistically on terms; people use different language for genuine reasons. Listening for intent behind language avoids unnecessary conflict. (40:18)

14. Journalism as a Practice in Curious Conversation

• As a journalist, Mónica’s best tool is helping people become storytellers, not just opinion-holders.
• Her favorite questions:

  “What are your concerns?... What do you hope for?” (41:11)

15. Practicing Curiosity in Everyday Life

• Mónica shares a personal anecdote about reducing distractions to be more present with her children. (43:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Divides Becoming Toxic:

  “We’re so divided, we’re blinded… Every time we decide we can't talk about politics, that's one more place of friction between difference that goes away.” —Mónica Guzmán (10:48)

• On Stereotyping:

  “We are extraordinarily deep mysteries... To try to understand a mystery from a distance is sort of the tragedy of the moment.” —Mónica Guzmán (12:48)

• On the Fruitlessness of Persuasion:

  “Trying to change people is a way of saying that we don’t accept them the way they are.” —Mónica Guzmán (14:28)

• On Trust vs. Truth:

  “The conversation about what is true is not effective across our society when there is no trust. And the only conversation that builds trust is the one about where people find meaning and where their concerns and fears and hopes are.” —Mónica Guzmán (19:12, 17:18)

• On Curiosity:

  “When you are curious, you cannot also be judgmental. In that moment when you are judgmental, you cannot also be curious.” —Mónica Guzmán (19:34)

• On Fear of “the Other”:

  “People on either side of America’s political divide assume the other side despises them twice as much as they actually do. This fear, it’s a problem because you can’t wonder about something you think is out to get you. But certainty, that's much worse.” —Mónica Guzmán (28:02)

• On Language and Meaning:

  “Meaning is in people, not words.” —Mónica Guzmán (37:20)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• Mónica’s family and political background: 05:16–10:19
• Why polarization blinds us: 10:48–12:11
• Puzzles vs. Mysteries: 12:48–14:15
• Why persuasion doesn’t work: 14:28–16:51
• Truth vs. Trust, and Buster Benson’s three conversations: 17:18–19:12
• "I Never Thought of it That Way" moments ("intuit moments"): 19:34
• Fear, monsters, and building small bridges: 22:24–25:19
• Case study: discovering nuance among friends: 29:40
• Curious conversations, even within your bubble: 31:49
• The Conversation Meter (five dials): 33:59–36:52
• On meaning in people, not words: 37:20–40:55
• Journalism and curious storytelling: 41:11
• Personal practice: attention and family: 43:07

Episode Tone and Style

The tone is candid, self-reflective and practical. Chris Duffy is open about his own flaws and learning process. Mónica Guzmán is warm, insightful, and gently challenges listeners’ assumptions without judging. The mood encourages self-examination and offers both hope and concrete tools, with humor and empathy woven throughout.

Takeaways

• Curiosity—not certainty—is essential for bridging divides.
• Building trust matters more than "winning" a conversation.
• Start by seeking nuance close to home, and build up to bigger bridges.
• Dialogue works best when you maximize time, attention, parity, containment, and embodiment.
• Language can be a barrier or a bridge; look for meaning behind words.
• Even small acts of curiosity can undo stereotypes and reduce fear.

For more from Mónica Guzmán:

• Book: I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times
• Braver Angels: braverangels.org

If you want to deepen dialogue and curiosity about opposing views—start small, be generous, and remember: “Whoever is underrepresented in your life is overrepresented in your imagination.”