Sunday Pick: How to mix business and family | Fixable

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Sunday Pick: How to Mix Business and Family | Fixable"

Episode Information

• Title: Sunday Pick: How to Mix Business and Family | Fixable
• Release Date: April 6, 2025
• Podcast Series: TED Talks Daily
• Host: TED
• Featured Hosts: Anne Morris and Frances Fry from Fixable

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Fixable, a podcast curated by TED Audio Collective and featured as a Sunday Pick on TED Talks Daily, hosts Anne Morris and Frances Fry delve into the intricate dynamics of merging family relationships with business operations. They engage with a listener, Elise Hu, who is grappling with the challenges of running a family-owned manufacturing business alongside her husband and navigating complex familial ties.

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Guest’s Situation: Navigating Family Business Dynamics

Timestamp: [04:17]

Elise Hu outlines her predicament: after dedicating over three decades to her family's manufacturing business, she and her husband, Stephen, face a critical decision point—either revitalize the struggling enterprise or sell it. The business, founded by Elise’s in-laws 35 years ago, is now at a crossroads due to generational divides, technological changes, and internal family conflicts.

Key Points:

• Generational Divide: The older generation, comprising Elise’s in-laws, hold traditional views on business operations, which clash with the modern approaches Elise and Stephen wish to implement.
• Business Decline: Sales have dramatically decreased, prompting urgent discussions about the future of the company.
• Family Dynamics: Multiple layers of family relationships (siblings, parent-child, in-laws) complicate decision-making processes.
• Operational Challenges: Issues with automation, technology adoption, and maintaining operational efficiency are hindering business growth.

Notable Quote:

“We wear a lot of hats trying to keep the business evolving. We are tired and want change. How do we work through the challenges of evolving an old business model impacted by our family dynamics and entitlement?”
— Elise Hu [04:17]

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Analysis and Advice: Transforming Conflict into Opportunity

Timestamp: [05:28] - [29:45]

Anne Morris and Frances Fry analyze Elise’s situation, offering strategic advice to navigate the intertwined challenges of family and business. They emphasize the importance of redefining decision-making power and establishing clear boundaries to facilitate meaningful change.

Key Strategies:

1. Radical Acceptance:

   • Recognize that trying to change the older generation’s mindset is futile.
   • Accept the existing business dynamics to focus on actionable next steps.

   Notable Quote:

   “You have to bring deep intention to parts of the business.”
   — Frances Fry [32:29]

2. Define Deal Parameters:

   • Determine the financial and operational terms necessary to acquire the business.
   • Understand personal walk-away points to avoid negotiating against oneself.

   Notable Advice:

   “Figure out what you need optimally and then make that discussable.”
   — Frances Fry [16:29]

3. Engage a Neutral Third Party:

   • Bring in external advisors or bankers to provide objective valuations and facilitate negotiations.
   • Utilize third-party data to strengthen the negotiating position.

4. Focus on Leveraging Strengths:

   • Highlight the synergy between Elise and Stephen’s partnership as a foundational strength.
   • Emphasize their combined ability to innovate and drive the business forward.

Notable Quote:

“You have a ton of leverage. The only viable solution is for the next generation to step up.”
— Anne Morris [20:17]

5. Plan for the Future:
   • Develop a clear strategic plan for the next 6 to 12 months, regardless of whether they acquire the business or decide to exit.
   • Consider alternative business models that align with their values and desired work-life balance.

Notable Insight:

“Your love for building a business and working together is a powerful foundation. These aspirations are achievable outside of the current company structure as well.”
— Anne Morris [22:27]

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Emotional and Personal Reflections

Timestamp: [07:01] - [29:45]

Elise shares her emotional journey, highlighting the deep personal investments in both her marriage and the business. She expresses the dual challenges of maintaining a healthy familial relationship while striving for business success.

Key Points:

• Work-Life Balance: Balancing professional responsibilities with personal relationships is a significant source of stress.
• Employee Loyalty: Elise values the well-being and security of her 20 employees, demonstrating a compassionate leadership style.
• Optimism Amidst Challenges: Despite the hurdles, Elise remains hopeful about the potential for positive change if the right strategies are implemented.

Notable Quote:

“I want to see that job security for all of us.”
— Elise Hu [12:00]

Emotional Moment: Elise becomes emotional when Anne and Frances validate her unique strengths and the positive aspects of her partnership with Stephen, reinforcing her resilience and commitment.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

1. Radical Acceptance is Crucial:

   • Accepting the limitations imposed by existing family dynamics allows for clearer strategic planning and decision-making.

2. Redefine Ownership and Control:

   • Establishing clear ownership and decision rights is essential for the next generation to implement necessary changes.

3. Leverage Partnership Strengths:

   • The synergy between Elise and Stephen serves as a critical asset in navigating and overcoming business challenges.

4. Engage External Advisors:

   • Neutral third parties can provide objective insights and facilitate fair negotiations, helping to break impasses rooted in familial biases.

5. Future Planning Over Immediate Conflict:

   • Focusing on long-term goals rather than getting bogged down in immediate familial disputes can lead to more sustainable business solutions.

Final Notable Quote:

“Family is not a synonym for dysfunction. But you do have to bring deep intention to parts of the business.”
— Frances Fry [33:17]

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Conclusion

This episode of Fixable poignantly captures the delicate balance between family and business. Through thoughtful dialogue, Anne Morris and Frances Fry provide invaluable guidance to Elise Hu, encouraging her to embrace radical acceptance, redefine her role within the business, and strategically navigate the complex interplay of familial relationships and business imperatives. The conversation underscores the significance of intentionality, clear boundaries, and leveraging personal strengths to foster both business success and familial harmony.

Takeaway Message: Successfully blending family and business requires a combination of emotional resilience, strategic planning, and the willingness to redefine traditional roles. By embracing these principles, family businesses can not only survive but thrive across generations.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Elise Hu]

Hey TED Talks daily listeners. I'm Elise Hu. Today we have an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective handpicked by us for you. Have you ever gotten stuck navigating a conflict at work and struggled to innovate ways forward? Well, imagine if this was the case, but your colleagues were also your in laws. This week we're sharing an episode from Fixable, where hosts and business leaders Anne Morris and Frances Fry help a frustrated listener work through disagreements in her family business. They offer some helpful tips on how to better navigate personal relationships in order to overcome organizational problems. Whatever you're dealing with at work, Fixable is there to help, offering actionable insights to create meaningful change in your life and workplace. Listen to Fixable wherever you get your podcasts and if you have a problem you want fixed, call their hotline at 234-fixable. That's 234-349-2253 to leave Ann and Frances a voicemail with your workplace problem. Learn more about the TED audio [e-mail] now on to the episode.

[Anne Morris]

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Fixable from the TED Audio Collective. I'm your host Anne Morris. I'm a company builder and and I'm.

[Frances Fry]

Your co host Frances Fry. I'm a Harvard Business School professor and I'm Ann's wife, Frances.

[Anne Morris]

On today's show, we are talking to a caller who goes to work every day with her husband. Kind of like you and me, baby.

[Frances Fry]

I get asked so often, you know, with like a conspiratorial whisper, how do you do it? The more they say I could never do it, you know what's going on. They're always asking. So in such a puzzling way. So it'll be a pleasure to talk to a fellow traveler who has also walking down this beautiful path.

[Anne Morris]

I know. So she is navigating the tricky territory of, yes, working with her husband, but also working inside a family business that includes multiple family relationships here. So siblings, parent, child in laws. And so it's a little bit of a harder climb than what you and I have.

[Frances Fry]

So my guess is that the family dynamics are gonna be a bigger deal than the spousal dynamics.

[Anne Morris]

That's my suspicion as well. So let's listen to the voicemail.

[Elise Hu]

Hi Ann and Frances. After being in business for more than 35 years in manufacturing, the small family business my husband and I work for is faced with a pivotal decision. Turn the business around or sell. Not only are we dealing with a generational divide between the owners, who also happen to be my in laws, but also changes in automation, personal spending, and a lot more. My husband and I wear a lot of hats trying to keep the business evolving. We are tired and want change. How do we work through the challenges of evolving an old business model impacted by our family dynamics and entitlement?

[Frances Fry]

Oh yeah. I mean the extended family dynamics, that's very tricky. The spousal dynamics, we can get that to work.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And if we can repurpose some of that energy that's going towards managing family dynamics and just put a fraction of it back on building this business, which I think has some exciting possibility to it, then that's going to be transformational for her experience of work.

[Marc Maron]

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[Anne Morris]

Welcome to Fixable. We're going to call you Lily. You are the first caller on our show who is also here to talk about your spouse, who we're going to call Stephen. As a couple, we are, we are thrilled to get into with you.

[Elise Hu]

We're really excited to chat and connect and, you know, gain some insights or perspective on some of the things we're navigating right now.

[Anne Morris]

So I'd love to start by just getting to know you and the situation a little better. So talk to me about. About marrying into this family.

[Elise Hu]

So through the years of being married, I ended up staying at home. And then once my kids became teenagers, I said, I gotta get back to work. I need something to do. But yet every single day we were talking about the ins and outs of this family business. And you and Steven. Yes. So he said, why don't you come work for us? And so it's a beautiful relationship where we can have the flexibility to allow me still to take care of the kids and still be at home, but also help him and the business as much as I can. The con to that situation is that there are times where he's like, enough. We're at home, it's a Sunday. I don't want to talk about work. Leave me alone. Because it's just always on my mind. And he's there and it's like, I just want to go, go, go. But I think because we do work so well together that it's like inspiring and motivates you. And it's like, what else can we do?

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

And when we get this positive feedback from employees about something that we both took initiative and did, like this feels good. Or when we are connecting with vendors and customers in ways that we've never done before, it's so much gratification. I love that. And maybe that's why I don't look at working elsewhere because I enjoy working with him so much.

[Anne Morris]

Beautiful. So set the scene for us a little bit. So this is a small manufacturing business?

[Elise Hu]

Yes. And so my in laws bought the business approximately 35 years ago. They have relocated, they have expanded, built the building, and a lot has happened. So we had a meeting just recently and I think the numbers don't lie. And the meeting was asking us what our intentions were. Did we want to buy the business and it was kind of a not take it or leave it situation. But like either you kids all need to step up and we have to really make 2025 matter or we're going to be in a position where we potentially have to sell. We're at a crossroads right now with the business. I think the problems that we've encountered and some that are out of our hands, that a lot of businesses are struggling with coming out of the pandemic, working in manufacturing, with automation and technology changes, we are fatigued at trying to influence some positive change.

[Anne Morris]

You reached out to us for help, which we were thrilled to receive your call. What are you hoping to get out of today's conversation?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, so looking at sales, there's a dramatic decline. And so trying to find new avenues and new venues. I'm trying to influence investment, tapping into some new opportunities, let's say, or maybe even from an operations perspective, changing how we're doing things internally so that we can deliver on time and offer the basic customer service that customers are demanding now more than ever. My father in law, he's part of the old boys network in that if we go to a local trade show that I can just go walk the floor, cost me nothing. I come back that day and he's like, well, do you have an order? And the reality is convincing him that it takes time to network and to build trust and that we have to invest in our marketing efforts, whether that's improving our website or doing very subtle things even, is that the expectation is so great. This is kind of that shift in a generation business model that we're struggling with.

[Anne Morris]

Is it fair to say that you are optimistic about the prospects for the business with the kinds of changes that you just articulated?

[Elise Hu]

I'm optimistic. I think if I can get everybody on board. And I think there is a frustrated sentiment between some of the family members and that's where we've tried to look at, okay, it doesn't cost us any money to clean and organize and try to be more efficient in a lot of ways. Right. We have to get these processes in order before we spend tons of money, let's say on a ERP system or new equipment. We have to kind of reel it back and start there. And so sometimes we get a lot of pushback, like we're a machine shop, we don't need to be clean. Why do we need to be clean? And I say, well, if I'm bringing a customer in here that works in defense or in the medical industry, this Place needs to be as pristine as possible. I am optimistic that change is possible, and it's just a matter, I think, of influencing the stakeholders to shift their mindset.

[Anne Morris]

Beautiful. If we are wildly successful in this conversation today, what is different for you?

[Elise Hu]

Oh, gosh, that's a loaded question. I think just job security would be really great. And I know that if this were to go away, the impact that this would have on the business and the family would be so detrimental to our whole family unit and not to mention our 20 employees that depend on us. I look at these people every day and the things that they tell me. And we had an employee, we had a tornado that came through our state two years ago, and it hit her area really, really hard. And I messaged her that Saturday, and I said, you take as much time as you need. You let us know how we can support you. And she messaged me back, and she was like, I can't tell you how much that means to me. My prior employer would have said, why aren't you coming to work? Like, when will you be at work? What do you mean you need time off? She didn't end up having water for, like, 10 days and electricity. And the livelihood of these people matter as much as my own. That I just like to see that job security for all of us.

[Anne Morris]

And so best case scenario for you is a plan to build this business into a thriving, going concern rather than sell it?

[Elise Hu]

Yes. Correct.

[Anne Morris]

Let's say the finances were not a constraint. Can you see your way through the strategy of how to grow demand?

[Elise Hu]

Yes. I'd love to be attending trade shows. I'd love to be getting the marketing material 100% up to date to put that lipstick on a pig and get out there. But the cost of some of those things are very high. And so that's again, where we've creatively tried to seek out. Some of these manufacturing platforms that don't cost us anything are very nominal investments. So when we connect with the right businesses, the opportunity is there. But I also feel operationally we've worked so hard, and this is where we have some issues with some of the employees that as far as organization and getting orders out the door, I can't grow the business if I don't have cooperation to meet the customer needs and demands. So that's where I've tried to work on fixing some of the operational deficiencies so that we can continue to retain and grow.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah. So this is a wonderful drama. I can see it in Shakespearean. It's Shakespearean. So you have the in laws who are grew up and created the business and had the business flourish under a different time and under a different operating system. You are the next generation. You see that operating system that they used outdated and it wouldn't work today, but they still hold on to it. And so the natural thing, the parts of the story that I love, if they're essentially like, then you go do it your way. Which is exactly the right thing to say. Like, you buy the company and then you can put in your own operating system. So in many ways that feels like the very natural progression of their money, their decision rights. Your money, your decision rights. I'm even encouraged that they would like that to happen. So that's, I think at the first level. The second level is you appear to me to be optimistic that you could fix the internal workings of the company and you could go out there and cultivate demand. So I don't know if your in laws would be employees after you buy the company. Actually. Would they be employees after you buy the company?

[Elise Hu]

I think they would like to. I think that would be probably a part of their terms. I think our concern is with that if they remain that involved, whether it comes with a paycheck or otherwise, it's going to be challenging to move forward. We compare it to an episode of Arrested Development meets succession. You know, we have meets. There's a lot of dynamics here, right?

[Frances Fry]

Yeah. But the clarity through it is your parents. I mean, in the succession thing, it was because the guy didn't want to let go. Your parents are willing to let go.

[Elise Hu]

Your.

[Frances Fry]

And it doesn't.

[Anne Morris]

Well, I think that it's even starker. I think they have to let go. They're either letting go, they're either handing it over to the next generation or handing it over to someone else. A buyer who's going to come in with strategically less confidence, less optimism and a low ball number because any buyer's going to suss it out.

[Frances Fry]

So to me, it's about making a deal. And the deal has to have salary money that your parents take out. And my advice is to figure out what you need those to optimally be. And then you're in a position to negotiate. But you should figure out, imagine you had magic dust, what do you want it to be? But if you design what you optimally need it, then you'll know where your walk away numbers are. But I wouldn't walk away prematurely because to Ann's point, as soon as they start talking to other buyers and they realize they're not going to get nearly as much money as they thought you might be a far more attractive alternative. So I don't want you to negotiate against yourself. I want you to figure out what would it take for you to buy the company and design that and then make that discussable. And if you can't get that, then you won't buy the company. Now, separate thing, you two should definitely work together and go to the same and we can talk about what you should do with all of your awesome creativity and can do spirit. This is not the only playground for you to go and do there. But I think you want to figure out what is your. What is the deal you're willing to strike for this?

[Anne Morris]

I wanna pull back for a second on just a thread that Frances are to hear because I wanna really underline this. Here's to me a very cool headline in this story. You love building a business and you love working with your husband. Like, however, this convoluted way you arrived at these two things, those are amazing concl to have reached at this point in your lives and in your kids lives where both of those things are possible. Do you feel that, like, are those true? Are those statements that resonate as true for you?

[Elise Hu]

I think you're gonna make me a little emotional because I hadn't really ever put that all together. And so when you put it in those terms, yeah, it's a really nice set of circumstances. I'm very fortunate and I feel that way. And I think that's why there are days where I'm like, I'm done with this, I'm tired. But then there's other days where that inner feeling and gut is, I do this for my husband. When I see how tired he is or there's things that he can't do, I'm like, I'll do it. Give it to me, we'll figure it out. You know. So the way that you said that is so beautiful.

[Anne Morris]

You present to me as a natural entrepreneur, like that moment where you're describing where your husband is finally like, listen, honey, I can't talk about this company.

[Frances Fry]

It'S Sunday afternoon, the football Sunday afternoon.

[Anne Morris]

But that your mind is constantly thinking about, how do I find leverage here? How do I solve a problem, how do I not spend any money? Those are the signals and underlying kind of mindsets of people who succeed in building businesses like this. So to me that's a very strong and exciting signal. And then it's clear that you plus Steven is like one plus one equals some number bigger than two, which is really, the test of whether these partnerships are going to work, I suspect you make each other better in this operating environment. So that's very exciting to me. And so I think you have a ton of leverage. Right. To say we have to sell within the year when, like, no work has been done to package it up. That is a very short timeline. Right. Really, the only viable solution is for the next generation to step up.

[Elise Hu]

So I think what you're saying makes so much sense. And there are conversations that we've had for, not just in this moment. We've had this for years about the spending and the responsibility with cash flow.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah. But I. So may I step in here? Those conversations are not the conversations I think you need to have, because what you're doing is trying to influence them as owners with decision rights. You got to stop that.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Frances Fry]

Don't try to get them to change.

[Anne Morris]

You have 35 years of information about how these guys are going to run the business. It's not changing.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

I think you just let go of that radical acceptance.

[Frances Fry]

Radical acceptance of that.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Frances Fry]

What you're going to talk about is if we buy the company, by the way, then they no longer have access to the checking accounts and things like that. They will receive only the money that you give them, and that will be predetermined, and it will be part of the deal. So I think the two most important. There's three important deal parameters. What are you going to pay for the business, and then how are you going to pay it? Are the parents employees in an ongoing way, or are they simply receiving distributions? Like right now, you see doing this or some horrible other big bureaucratic company. That's not your next job. I promise you. Oh, my goodness. You two are gonna be working on a startup. So I need you to negotiate the purchase of this company as if you have other great alternatives. And that other great alternative is not part of a big, stodgy bureaucratic mess. It's some scrappy awesomeness where you can get rewarded for thinking about it on Saturdays and Sundays. And you're really a part of it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

And I mean, maybe it's a services business, not a manufacturing business. So it's asset light, and you guys are super scrappy, and you are just helping people make connections. You're solving some problem in this industry that you've gotten to know so intimately as a couple between the two of you. But I think this is a really important point that I want to underscore.

[Elise Hu]

This.

[Anne Morris]

Be this beautiful insight you have that you love to build businesses and you love to work together. And oh, by the way, you love freedom and agency, right? For all kinds of reasons. Yes. So you can be a fucking awesome mom, which you clearly are, but also because it is important to you on a bunch of levels to live the life that you want to live. All of those things are possible outside of this company as well, maybe even more possible, which is why it's so important to really try on these alternatives.

[Elise Hu]

You hit something on the head. And I think they recognize the value of my husband, that without him here, it would be very problematic to continue in any capacity, whether it's, you know, us or a buyer.

[Frances Fry]

I think by the end of 2025, you will both get other jobs if the decision rights and ownership structure of the company isn't changed. And that's the way I would be approaching it. And you can say to them, look, we're going to give you 20, 25 to work out a deal with us. And here are the parameters that matter to us. And we totally understand if you can't do it. It's your business, it's your decision rights. We're just telling you what our parameters are and we will walk away happy if we don't reach it. It's totally fine if we don't. Ann often calls this sexy indifference.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, get to the point of sexy indifference. And one tactic here might be to bring in a banker who can be the messenger. This is what it's going to take to package the business. And this is what we think you could get for it if we can find a buyer. This is not a fast moving market. So if we can find a buyer, this is what I think the price is. And this is the changes you would have to make over the next year to make this even a viable purchase. Right. And so you get some third party data and you can have someone else from the outside come in and price it and say, okay, well here's our offer. See if you can go get a better one. And here are our terms.

[Frances Fry]

The liberty I want you to feel is you are no longer gonna push the rock up the hill of trying to influence your in laws. It will not work.

[Anne Morris]

That odyssey is over.

[Frances Fry]

That is over.

[Anne Morris]

That's over now. And now you're talking about a plan for the next six to 12 months, which is find another buyer. We'll get our own offer to like, let's package this up. You're selling it to us or you're selling it to someone else. So let's go, let's go. If we have to clean. Like what's the minimum viable that we have to do to make this sellable? But let's figure out what the real economics of the business are. Let's make the basic changes and then let's come up with what a fair price would be. Then you can start to weigh your options. But let's weigh them with some expansive optimism here that this is not the only place you can go to and get agency. Get agency and freedom and the chance to also do these other things that are critical to your life like raise these teenagers and work with your husband and build something. Like all of those things are also possible outside the four walls of this company.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, no, it's so much the third party piece of this is huge. Because I think one of the dynamics we struggle with is like, you know, I'm dad, like what I say goes. It's hard to kind of separate you.

[Anne Morris]

There are no objective parties in the room. Everyone is conflicted. Everyone's conflicted financially, everyone's conflicted emotionally. You gotta bring in some neutral third party arbiters here to get you through again. We're talking about the next six to 12 months.

[Frances Fry]

I want your in laws to feel you're walking away because right now they feel you as captive and they're going to treat you differently. But as soon as they feel you are one foot in and one foot out, I promise you everything is going to start to feel different.

[Elise Hu]

Yep. He's been told he's just an employee. And that still is one of those comments. Feels different.

[Anne Morris]

He's so much bigger than an employee in this situation.

[Frances Fry]

And I think what you're saying is by the end of 2025, I'm either going to be an owner or not an employee.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Frances Fry]

How might I be helpful to you during 2025? That's what I would say to the parents. We're gonna give you a year for us to try to figure out if we're gonna buy it or we're leaving. That's your decision, right?

[Elise Hu]

Oh, this feels like a Dr. Laura episode, doesn't it? Like it's so much drama, so many dynamics. It's a lot. But I mean we just had a meeting this week. Cause I said we gotta talk about 2025. We have to start planning some goals. We have to brainstorm. We have to be forward thinking versus this month to month existence.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, but you're no longer trying to influence the behavior of anyone else.

[Frances Fry]

Nobody.

[Anne Morris]

Those are your decision rights. How do you want to behave and then how do you communicate that to people who will be impacted by your decisions. But this is not a company meeting about goals.

[Frances Fry]

No, no, I don't think you participate in those anymore. I think what you want to do is say you're deciding whether or not you're gonna buy the company or whether or not you're gonna leave the company. And then you can also leave the ball in their court sometimes, because if nothing happens, the default is you're leaving.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And you're gonna be good, you know, you're gonna be a good daughter. You're gonna be a good daughter in law, and you're gonna be a good son. And if that means they wanna package the company up for the next 12 months and see what they can get.

[Frances Fry]

For it, you'll help them.

[Anne Morris]

You'll help them.

[Elise Hu]

Mm. Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

You're delighted?

[Frances Fry]

You're delighted.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Go get him, tiger.

[Elise Hu]

Right. So I feel very validated that this thought that we could change an influence which has not happened is something that we have to stop doing. And without everybody knowing who these characters are, I think that is a big hurdle for us that we have to accept and we have to approach differently. And I think for a long time we took it upon ourselves to think it's our delivery. It's, you know, we have to sell it. We have to change our perspective on things to try to get them to side with us or understand it differently.

[Frances Fry]

We're separating you.

[Anne Morris]

You tried in good faith, you tried have the peace to know that that was plan A, didn't work and tried to execute in very good faith.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And I don't think that's something that we've really considered. We just kind of do versus really okay. If we're going to continue working in these capacities, what does that look like? Especially approaching the new year, it's a good time for us to revisit and say, okay, what do we want our role to be? Like, we want security for the entire family, but not at the expense of the family. So I appreciate and love the insight to think about the next year a little differently.

[Frances Fry]

I'm a very good guesser. And I don't know if you're going to buy the company or leave the company. So to me, it's like truly 50 50. Like, I usually have a very good instinct in one. And what I hope to you is that you get to have Ann's sexy indifference by you not knowing either. And so when you talk to them as if both of those are perfectly legitimate outcomes, a lot of good things will happen.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you so much. I started to feel a little emotional because you made me see some things a lot differently than I have when it comes to my marriage and my family and what our future looks like together and appreciate the past in spite of so many hurdles, whether it be with family or business or otherwise. So I'm really grateful for the time to have these conversations.

[Marc Maron]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Anne Morris]

Oh Frances, I have to say I'm feeling some optimism for Lily.

[Frances Fry]

I am too.

[Anne Morris]

And this company and having the clarity.

[Frances Fry]

Of look, here are the terms of engagement. I can either do this or that. It's so clarifying for ourselves and it's so clarifying for other people to do it because otherwise we'll just replay the family dynamic script of I say this, you say that. It's like going to a perpetual Thanksgiving dinner.

[Anne Morris]

I mean, generationally there's gonna be a difference. And let's start from the point where we just radically accept that.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

As where we are.

[Frances Fry]

And it's not clear to me that this isn't good advice for all of.

[Anne Morris]

Us when we think about what we want people to take away from this episode. So I would put that on the list that just the power of radical acceptance. What else is on your list?

[Frances Fry]

I know of so many magnificent family businesses. In fact some of the most well run organizations. But there is so much intentionality by everyone to understand that the business is this other, this thing that we all contribute to. It's this thing outside of us that we all respect and honor and we want to do things to keep it going.

[Anne Morris]

I want to underscore that point because you have colleagues that only study family businesses and they are like my happiest colleagues. They are your happiest colleagues. Family is not a synonym for dysfunction. But you do have to bring deep intention to parts of the business.

[Frances Fry]

Family businesses. I might get this number wrong, but it's something like 50% of all businesses.

[Anne Morris]

It's some astonishing number.

[Frances Fry]

And there's some myths about family businesses that it starts, it goes to the next generation, then it gets ruined by the third generation. But I. What I find amazing are the ones that get stronger with every generation. And so you know my favorite family business in the world and it's Sewell Automotive.

[Anne Morris]

Ah yes.

[Frances Fry]

And they're car distributors in Texas and they are creating communities. Here's my favorite fun fact about Sewell. When 9 11, when the tragedy of 911 happened, people went to the dealerships just because they wanted to be in community with other people. And that felt like the right place to go. That's the power of family businesses and that's one of the great leverages for wealth and prosperity and humanity and dignity in the world.

[Anne Morris]

And scaling your values and worldviews.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

I mean that's such a beautiful example.

[Frances Fry]

If that's the measure. I want Sewell to be a worldwide organization because I think we should scale.

[Anne Morris]

Their values to the planet. Yeah. Two more thoughts. I just want to offer. One, I got in touch with how important. Just a reminder because you and I spend a disproportionate amount of time with big companies. Just a reminder of how important small businesses are not just to the economy, but to every single person who shows up, everyone who builds them the opportunity to embed these organizations with your own values. I mean they, they really have an outsized role in the health and well being of a society. And it was, to me it was, it just was. It was energizing to see that come to life.

[Frances Fry]

I agree completely.

[Anne Morris]

And then the other one is that the moms on your payroll may be your best workers and if you can give them some flexibility and agency to craft the how of the work, you can still define the what, but you will get back in terms of loyalty and creativity. And I don't know that she would use the word passion, but that's how it presented in terms of solving problems for this business.

[Frances Fry]

She presented so much as like she's willing to gnaw off a limb to get things done and she wants to be able to go to the soccer game. If you provide the flexibility to go to the soccer game, you will get such an outsized return. So you're right. Like the employee management system for moms, I still to this day consider that to be the greatest one because they know what it's like to not have flexibility and they'll do anything for it.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And I speak Midwestern. I grew up in the Midwest. And so for anyone listening, that's fucking Midwestern passion right there. You might not have heard it, but I did. Thank you our listeners, for another wonderful season and year. We have had such a great time making this show with you and solving problems together. We have loved it and we have learned so much along the way and we couldn't be more grateful.

[Frances Fry]

Yes, my heart is full at the that we get to do this and that we get to be Thomas the Train useful engines as we're doing it.

[Anne Morris]

And of course we are coming back with more episodes in late January. We're going to have some great stuff in the interim from podcasts that we love. So keep showing up on Monday morning. We will have some great content for you and keep sending us your workplace issues and let us know if you'd like to come on the show and workshop them together with us.

[Frances Fry]

If you want to be on Fixable, please call us at 234- FIXABLE. That's 234-349-2253 or email [e-mail].

[Anne Morris]

Fixable is brought to you by the TED Audio Collective and Pushkin Industries. It's hosted by me, Ann Morris and me, Frances Fry. This episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Balaurasso and Roxanne Hylash.

[Frances Fry]

Our show is mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

[Anne Morris]

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[Elise Hu]

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