Sunday Pick: Kristen Bell on delivering honesty with empathy | from ReThinking with Adam Grant

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Kristen Bell on Delivering Honesty with Empathy

Podcast: TED Talks Daily (from ReThinking with Adam Grant)
Date: May 31, 2026
Host: Adam Grant
Guest: Kristen Bell
Location: Live conversation at BetterUp's Uplift conference, San Francisco

---

Episode Overview

This episode features a lively and insightful conversation between Adam Grant, organizational psychologist and host of ReThinking, and actress, producer, and philanthropist Kristen Bell. Departing from her famous onscreen personas, Kristen discusses her journey of overcoming people-pleasing, learning to deliver honesty without unkindness, valuing compliments, and transforming envy. The conversation is interwoven with personal stories, actionable advice, role-play demonstrations, and a lightning round, all delivered in a fun, candid, and emotionally intelligent tone.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Kristen Bell’s Early Career & Mindset on Teamwork

[04:16 - 06:22]

• Kristen's first role was as a banana in a children’s theater; her mother encouraged her to try theater for team experience and confidence.
• Performing arts taught her the value of teamwork and creating joy for others.

“Performing is really my chance to just be like, okay, I've prepared something. Come on in... And to simply just do it to give other people joy." – Kristen Bell (05:10)

• She found fulfillment in being additive and “dancing” with a team.

Preparation and Authenticity in Performance

[06:26 - 07:42]

• Kristen’s pre-performance ritual is intentionally unstructured—she prefers not to focus and to be pulled into scenes organically.
• She avoids meditation before performances, finding energy and spontaneity more valuable than calmness.

"For me, getting pushed off that cliff is how I do my most organic work in the scene. If I think too much, I find it's not as organic…" – Kristen Bell (06:34)

Working with Coaches & Seeking Expertise

[08:14 - 08:58]

• Kristen values expert feedback and currently works with neuroscience leadership coach Dr. Julia DiGangi.
• Adam underscores the cultural importance of listening to experts, especially in 2026:

"Listening to people who know stuff feels important." – Adam Grant (08:44)

Overcoming People-Pleasing & Internalizing Emotions

[09:05 - 15:08]

• Kristen describes being a chronic people-pleaser, vigilant about ensuring others “have a good experience on planet Earth.”
• Dr. DiGangi helped her understand this behavior springs from fear and a lack of confidence to hold other people's discomfort.
• The struggle: telling a flight attendant about her coffee preference—she wasted mental energy avoiding mild confrontation.

"I have a problem telling the difference between your emotions and my emotions... So if you are upset, I might take that on." – Kristen Bell (09:49)

• Adam reframes people-pleasing as selfishness, driven by the desire to avoid being disliked—not actual giving.

“People-pleasing is actually selfish... you don't want to be disliked.” – Adam Grant (14:23)

Lessons from Acting on Leadership and Team Chemistry

[15:08 - 19:39]

• Effective leaders strike a balance between agreeableness and challenge; acting skills (emotional communication, playfulness) are valuable for all.
• Kristen builds rapport by finding small connections (“Do you want Starbucks?”) and emphasizes the power of compliments:

"It does not cost you anything to say something nice to someone… We don't say the nice things we think all the time, and we need to figure out, unlock that and let it fall out of our mouth." – Kristen Bell (18:09)

Compliments, Playfulness, and Navigating Praise

[19:39 - 20:44]

• Kristen distinguishes between genuine, spontaneous compliments and disingenuous flattery.
• She seeks authenticity and gravitates toward those who might benefit from a little attention, not brown-nosers.

"If someone's giving me a lot of compliments, it's honestly probably not the person I'm gonna gravitate towards..." – Kristen Bell (20:19)

• Jokingly, Adam notes: “So the fastest way to your heart is to insult you?”

“100%.” – Kristen Bell (20:48)

Navigating Envy & Negative Emotions

[21:06 - 27:19]

• Kristen acknowledges envy as a natural, “primate” reaction, especially in competitive environments.
• Key insight: don’t transmit negative energy—transform it.

"If you don’t transform it, you will transmit it and then you’re part of the problem." – Kristen Bell (22:18)

• She candidly shares envy toward Anna Kendrick, who got roles she wanted, and describes processing these feelings:

“She’s taking your role in the world, not just in movies.” – Adam Grant (24:43) “I remembered that she's a different person and deserves those roles… I don't get all the roles...” – Kristen Bell (26:00)

Setting Boundaries and Delivering Tough Love with Empathy

[27:36 - 34:32]

• Adam and Kristen role-play delivering honest feedback with empathy, using inquiry and respect:

“Can I pressure test this? ...I just worry... we might be missing something." – Kristen Bell (in demonstration, 28:33)

• Kristen advocates for leading tough conversations with questions, choosing body language that lowers threat, and remaining on the “same team.”
• Anna (character) to Elsa (character), on setting boundaries:

“Elsa, you know you're my best friend and sister... but when you have these really heavy problems, I’m not sure right now I'm strong enough to carry them. So let's lay them in between us, and I'll still be here with you, but I can’t hold them right now.” – Kristen Bell as Anna (31:33)

Handling Overstaying Guests & Healthy Detachment

[33:16 - 36:53]

• Kristen’s technique: subtly (but kindly) signals that the social event is over:

“It was so great having you.” – Kristen Bell (34:06)

• She differentiates between asserting a need (ending a social event) with kindness, and "ghosting" or “no contact,” which she critiques as avoiding growth:

"If you want someone to leave but you still want them to like you, you just have to put a little bit of thought into what you say.” – Kristen Bell (34:32)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On People-Pleasing:

  "I'm fearful that I would upset her by telling her how I like my coffee... When you really say it out loud... it sounds kind of crazy." — Kristen Bell (12:06)

• On Compliments:

  “Nobody's complimenting people enough. Like we've lost that.” — Kristen Bell (18:07)

• On Envy & Self-Acceptance:

  “You do not know as much as you think you know. Everyone who thinks they know is wrong.” — Kristen Bell (25:45)

• On Emotional Transmission:

  “If you don't transform this, I will transmit it... I don't want to be responsible for transmitting a bunch of negative stuff.” — Kristen Bell (22:11)

• On Healthy Boundaries:

  “Annoyance is the price we pay for community... You're supposed to be annoyed with people. We're not supposed to be the same… Uncle Randy sucks. And he's always gonna suck, you guys. But he's your uncle.” — Kristen Bell (35:19)

• On Overexplaining:

  "I'm accepting the fact that over explaining is a form of begging." – Kristen Bell (39:13)

• On Hopefulness:

  "Everywhere I look, I see people who have huge hearts and who are trying to make the world a better place. And those are not the people in the headlines… but they are the people who make the world go round.” — Adam Grant (40:48)

---

Segment Timestamps

• Kristen’s Job is Morale: 01:13
• Early Acting and Values Learned: 04:16 – 06:22
• Preparation Rituals: 06:26 – 07:42
• On Coaching and Expertise: 08:14 – 08:58
• People-Pleasing and Emotional Boundaries: 09:05 – 15:08
• Leadership Lessons from Acting: 15:08 – 19:39
• Compliments & Team Chemistry: 18:09 – 20:44
• Navigating Envy and Transforming Negativity: 21:06 – 27:19
• Demonstration: Delivering Honesty with Empathy: 28:15 – 34:32
• Boundaries & Handling Guests: 34:32 – 36:53
• Lightning Round and Career Reflection: 37:02 – 41:57

---

Lightning Round Highlights

• Most-Identified Character: Anna of Arendelle
• Least-Identified: Sarah Marshall
• Would Replay: Eleanor Shellstrop (The Good Place)
• Worst Career Advice: “Try to be what they want you to be.”
• Recent Re-Thinking: Overexplaining = begging.
• Show Recommendation: "Million Dollar Secret" (Netflix)

---

Final Takeaways

• Kristen Bell encourages using self-reflection, humor, curiosity, and empathy to navigate everyday challenges, from the workplace to family gatherings.
• Compliments, authentic boundaries, and emotional self-care are undervalued but powerful tools.
• Adam Grant reiterates the hope found in community and everyday kindness, despite negative headlines.

The episode is both relatable and practical, showing that honesty and empathy are skills anyone can cultivate, with a little courage and playfulness.

---

Transcript

[A]

Happy Sunday, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Elise Hu here. Today we're bringing you a Sunday pic where we share an episode of another podcast from Ted, handpicked by us for you. You probably know Kristen Bell as the star behind characters like Veronica Mars, or the voice of Princess Anna from Frozen. Or as Eleanor from the Good Place. In this episode of Rethinking with Adam Grant, Kristen Bell and Adam sat down for a live conversation to talk about a side of Kristen that fue fewer people know. They explore how she's learning to overcome her people pleasing tendencies and stop internalizing other people's emotions. Kristin gets in character to demonstrate how to be honest without being unkind. She also makes the case that compliments are underrated, opens up about her strategies for dealing with envy, and offers a surprising theory of why we over explain. To hear more deep conversations you can find rethinking wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about Ted's [e-mail] Now onto the episode right after a quick break.

[B]

My job is morale, period. My job is not to come in and make the strongest creative decisions. We have writers for that. We have a showrunner, the prop department. People know what they're doing. My job is morale. Every day, all day.

[C]

Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking My Podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking. Kristen Bell is an actor, producer, and philanthropist. She currently stars in and executive produces the hit show Nobody Wants this. Kristen and I became friends thanks to her husband, Dax Shepard, and she's taught me a lot about psychology. She and I just did a live conversation on stage at BetterUp's Uplift conference in San Francisco and it was a blast. We talk about how she's learning to overcome her people pleasing tendencies and stop internalizing other people's emotions. She also makes the case that compliments are underrated, opens up about her strategies for dealing with envy, and offers a surprising theory of why we over explain things. And I convinced her to get in character to demonstrate how to be honest without being unkind. I had to make sure you were actually coming on stage.

[B]

I was not paying attention. Nope, I was talking.

[C]

Kristin, we are so glad to have you here at Uplift. Welcome.

[B]

Thanks. Hi guys.

[C]

Can we just get a sense of the audience? How many of you? I'm just gonna give you a few of Kristen's most iconic characters. Can you just Cheer for the one you love most.

[B]

Ooh, a contest.

[C]

Sarah Marshall.

[B]

Strong start.

[C]

Okay, good. Princess Anna, Some of you have already cheered twice. What? Why? Okay, how about Eleanor from the Good Place?

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And Joanne from Nobody Wants this.

[B]

They stood. There's three standards on that one. I'm not the judge because I can't be involved. But there was.

[C]

Eleanor had standards over there more before, so.

[B]

Yeah, see, I missed it. You don't always know everything.

[C]

Okay, so obviously. Thank you. Somebody said Veronica Mars. I was waiting for it. Cheer for Veronica Mars. Those are your real fans.

[B]

Okay, that's very flattering, you guys. Thank you.

[C]

Okay, so, Kristin, here's what I want to know. Yeah, I've loved all of those characters, but in some ways, maybe your greatest role was as a banana.

[B]

Thank you for noticing.

[C]

Adam, can you explain that to those who don't know what I'm talking about?

[B]

Yeah. It was my entrance into the biz, as they say. I was a kid. That was a really strong mimic. I mimicked everything. When I walked in the room and heard an announcer, I would just start to mimic it all the time. And my mom wanted me to be involved in some sort of team activity, and I was a lot smaller than a lot of the other kids, and so she was like, huh. Well, she sings a lot, and she mimics a lot, and she's a little bit performative. So what if we did theater? Great. Cut to. I go to audition for Raggedy Ann and Andy. When I got there, and I got out of the car, and I completely broke down because I, for the first time in my life, felt like, oh, I do all this mimic stuff at home with my family, but people will be watching. And my mom took my shoulders and she said, listen to me. If you absolutely botch this, we will never speak of this again. We don't even have to drive down this street again. Okay. And so I went in, I did it, and I got cast as a banana in the first act and a tree in the second act, obviously, because they knew I could handle the complexity. That was my first theater show.

[C]

Is there anything you learned from that that still affects you today?

[B]

Oh, yeah. That was the first time I felt the true kind of energy rise of, like, teamwork, where you prepare and you have this big secret with this group that you're working with. And there's, like, this creativ flowing because there's paint and props and all of these, like, fun things involved for kids. And we made a lot of the set pieces, and then you have the excitement of Opening night. And to me, it was like my. The first time I really felt all of that excitement. Cause to me, like, performing is really my chance to just be like, okay, I've prepared something. Come on in, come on in. And to simply just do it to give other people joy. Cause you don't know if someone. This is their favorite show. You don't know if they're gonna maybe just want some. Some like a respite from their family. And maybe they might just shut their eyes during the show, which is also fine. But you get to do it for the group and you get to add something. It's like a beautiful dance you do with a team. And I just wanted more.

[C]

Let's talk a little bit about preparation.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

What is your pregame ritual? How do you get yourself into the right mindset to perform?

[B]

You caught it. You caught it back there.

[C]

Not paying attention.

[B]

Correct. I'm not joking. It will literally be. We will be talking actually. Let's go. You have. In my opinion, you have to know what works for you if you are to say. Because in the business, when you're shooting, they say rolling and then they snap the little clapper for the camera and then they call action. So there's about a 30 second delay. And I purposefully am not paying attention to any of that. For me, I want to be like, swallowing the last grapes that I'm eating, wiping off my hands and talking about, like, what I saw on the Secret Millionaire show last night, as they call action. Because for me, getting pushed off that cliff is how I do my most organic work in the scene. If I think too much, I find it's not as organic of a performance.

[C]

That's so interesting because I think I watch a lot of people who backstage will start meditating, and I always look at that and think, you're getting into the wrong mindset. You want to have energy on stage. You don't want to be calm. If we're going to talk, we should be interacting. Right?

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

Is it?

[B]

Yes. And because I find I am fueled by numerous topics at once. Oh, but what about this? Oh, but what about this? And maybe that's my personal application of that when we're talking about like, oh, my gosh, did you see they had burritos at crafty. Hello. Hello, Noah. You know what I mean?

[C]

Love it. So I think we're surrounded by people who care about coaching. You have a coach, you've worked with coaches throughout your career, but you have a coach that you're obsessed with now.

[B]

Obsessed I don't know that I'd say. I've worked with coaches throughout my life, unless my husband counts, because I ask a lot of advice because he always has the opposite opinion. And I like to pressure test everything. And so I found this leadership coach who is a neuroscientist named Dr. Julia DiGangi. And she has a program that you can sign up for that's like 20 minutes a day in the morning. And I've been doing it since January 1st, and I have become obsessed with it. And then I emailed her and had started doing private coaching as well.

[C]

Okay, so two things here. First of all, you liking experts. This should not be a novelty. But in 2026, yeah, listening to people who know stuff feels important. I just wanted to underscore that.

[B]

Yeah. And that's crazy, y'. All. I mean, what.

[C]

Okay. Secondly, one of the things that you have been struggling with throughout your life that you've been working on recently encouraging is your chronic people pleasing.

[B]

She was like, ooh, yes, yes. I am vigilant about people having a good experience on planet Earth because that's what I want. And I like to be additive as opposed to, you know, being negative. And Dr. Digangi has informed me that this is coming from a fear based place because I am not confident internally enough to say something that might make someone upset. I don't yet have the capacity that I would like. I need to expand it to hold other people's discomfort. I have a problem telling the difference between your emotions and my emotions. It's harder for me. It takes more energy from my brain and my body. So if you are upset, I might take that on. And I don't want to be upset. So when I'm working with her, she tries to get really, really granular and explain about, listen, there are two things. There is your brain and there is reality. And oftentimes people spend their whole life trying to change the one they can't control. And it's literally just like running into a brick wall and continuing to do it. And it's continuing to do it. I mean, so she tries to ask me to give her, like, the most granular situations of when I got like a little bit nervous to say something that was authentic. And I gave her this example. Last week, I was on a flight home from Nashville and it was in the morning and I went to sleep and I woke up and it was like 10am when we landed, I was like, oh, I need coffee. And the sweetest flight attendant. I was like, can I grab A cup of coffee before we land. She was like, yes, baby. And she said, do you want cream? I was like, yeah, a little. She brings me back her coffee, and it's half coffee, half cream. And that's fine. It's not my bag, but it's fine. It was a cup of milk. And so I was like, I need that juice. So I chug the coffee. And then I was like, I'm gonna go to the restroom. And I said, can I get one more cup of coffee? And she said, yes, absolutely. And I get out of my seat, and my mind is going, tell her you don't want two creams. Tell her you do not want two creams. Just say one cream. Please just say one cream. Go to the bathroom. Just say one cream. Just say one cream. Go to the bathro. Just tell her one cream. Just say one cream. It's not gonna make a difference. That's fine. Just say one cream. No big deal. She comes out, she's like, same way. I'm like, yeah, thank you. And then Dr. Digangi was like, this is perfect. Perfect example. Look at how much energy you wasted. And if I come home at night, which I do, going like, I'm so drained. So drained. I'm so tired, you know, or feeling annoyed that there's, like a whole system to put kids to bed. And wouldn't it be great to only do that six days a week? And one day they do it themselves, but they're not capable of that, all the stuff. And I'm like, well, I wish I wouldn't wasted so much energy. I'm just so drained. And she's like, yeah, well, look at what you're wasting it on. And also that there's a couple things at play there, right? Cause you really get to analyze it. That woman desires to do a good job. She was like the sweetest flight attendant. So a. I'm kind of stealing her joy a little bit when I don't tell her exactly what I want, which is rude. Which is kind of rude and kind of. Kind of, yes, really rude. And also, I like. I just. I. I'm fearful that I would upset her by telling her how I like my coffee. When you really say it out loud, particularly in front of a group of people, it sounds kind of crazy, but, like, you're. It's not trauma, obviously, but you're having a reaction to being fearful of upsetting this lady. And not only is it fear, but it's control. Because when she doesn't know who you are authentically, and she doesn't have to change. You control the situation and you know exactly how she'll react. So you are actually fearful of sitting with her. Uncertainty. And then I was just like. I was like, whoa, you know, you want to shut the computer on someone who says something really strong.

[C]

Okay, so I have. I have some.

[B]

I don't even know where we are.

[C]

No, I do. But I do want to. I just want to pick up on a couple of things you said about people. Please. Yeah, keep me straight, because this relates to a frustration I had when give and take first came out. I spent a lot of time trying to encourage people to be givers rather than takers. And I kept getting typecast, to use a term from your world, as the nice guys and nice gals finish first person. And I kept having to explain, no, no, no. Being a giver is not about being nice. It's not about pleasing people. It's about helping them. And those are two completely different things. And through I had so many of those conversations that it finally dawned on me that people pleasing is actually selfish.

[B]

Because this is what Dax says to me all the time.

[C]

Well, Dax thinks everything is selfish and he's wrong about that, but we gang up on him. But I think that it's selfish in two ways. One is what you just described, which is you're an empath and you don't want to feel someone else's bad feelings. And so it's about you. But it's also selfish because you don't want to be disliked.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if I'm disliked, again, I can't control the situation. Right. And so what I'm learning that the really, like, boiling it down is about. I am currently learning to practice just being patient and holding uncertainty.

[C]

I think this is very relevant to everyone in the room. When I think about the research on leadership, for example, there's a curvilinear relationship between how agreeable people are and how effective they tend to be at leading. If you're hyper agreeable, you tend to be too much of a people pleaser and you don't challenge your team enough. If you're hyper disagreeable, you tend to leave people feeling disrespected. And so it's easier if you're in the middle of that spectrum. But if you're on your extreme or the other extreme, I think actually learning the skill of acting is useful. And so I want to talk about some of the things we can take away from acting for everyone in the room. Okay, so let's Talk about chemistry with your co stars and your collaborators. Okay, I want to talk about this from two angles. One is the chemistry screen or the read where you figure out who you have chemistry with. And then the other is how do you build it once you're stuck working with someone? So let's start at the beginning. I think. How many people have watched. Nobody wants this. Okay, so your chemistry with your boyfriend on that show is. It's the first thing everyone talks about. Yeah. Even Dax admits it's a little.

[B]

I know. He loves it so much, which makes

[C]

me a little uncomfortable.

[B]

He's like, I want you guys to kiss so bad.

[C]

And I'm like, stop cheating on Dax, Kristen. I'm not okay with that part of the job anyway.

[B]

Okay, well, let me start by saying what Adam and I have. If you want to really break it down. We tapped into something that I don't think anyone's thinking about, which is this like super buried nostalgia of Veronica Mars and Seth Cohen hooking up. And no one really like thinks about that because we're older now and we've sort of forgotten those shows. But anyone that watched those shows. You always wanted a crossover. You know what I mean? You always wanted a crossover. But for me, when I. I will say this, maybe it's better for me to analyze people that I have to work really closely with, like my producing partner or someone else that I have to do day to day activities or my ads who have to like schedul the scenes and I have to trust them. If I say my daughter has a recital at 6pm and I really have to trust that they're gonna get me out in time. Those kinds of people. The barometer that I use is if I can get enough of a read on you that I think I would let you babysit my kids, we're probably good to go. Like we will be a match. Now when I'm on set, there's 75 other people there and I didn't hire them all personally. So when I'm around people that I know I'm gonna be working with and I wanna of like teamwork, I start super duper small and find something that we might have in common. Of like I'm ordering Starbucks. Do you want Starbucks? Right. Or what kind of coffee do you like? Or anything super duper tiny. I love your shoes, by the way. Can I just say, this is what we should be talking about. Nobody's complimenting people enough. Like we've like lost that and it's not. I'm gonna get on A tangent real quick. And can you bring me back in a second? Can you, like.

[C]

I'll consider it.

[B]

Okay. It does not cost you anything to say something nice to someone, and it also. It comes naturally to you, and if it doesn't, check your pulse. Because, like, I can be, like, looking anywhere and be like, oh, my gosh, I love those glasses, those red glasses right there. And there's a difference between me just clock. You're welcome. Difference between me just clocking them and then me actually stopping by being like, oh, my gosh, I really love your glasses. We don't say the nice things we think all the time, and we need to figure out. Unlock that and let it fall out of our mouth. And it's one of the cutest things my husband does because he gives compliments to strangers with reckless abandon. If we're at a restaurant and someone like the waitress or the waiter has really nice eyebrows, he'd be like, wow, you have such great eyebrows. And I. No, he's doing it to flirt with me, first of all. Hey. But he lets compliments fall off of him all the time. If he sees something he likes, he says it, and I think that's really, really beautiful. So I start with playfulness and something that connects us, that humanizes us on a level. I think keeping people's spirits up is an absolute superpower, and it's what oftentimes makes you look like a leader. And for a leader, especially one that people are often intimidated by, it is paramount to have playfulness.

[C]

Anyone else? Yeah, I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks that Kristin might have missed a calling as a chief people officer.

[B]

Chief people officer.

[C]

I think you've been doing that job a little bit on the side.

[B]

Great.

[C]

As a hobby. The compliment thing is tricky, though, when you're a leader or a person in a position of power, on the receiving end of it. Because I'm sure if I came on set, the first person I want to compliment is Kristen Bell. And I'm sure you get a lot of brown nosing, a lot of dishonest flattery. How do you deal with that?

[B]

Well, I mean, honestly, it's easy for me to tell. I'm picking up on people's energetic signatures. I'm not picking up on the words. I'm looking for the people around me who maybe could benefit from a little sprinkle of attention. And if someone's giving me a lot of compliments, it's honestly probably not the person I'm gonna gravitate towards the rest of the day.

[C]

So the fastest way to your heart is to insult you 100%.

[B]

100%.

[C]

Done.

[B]

Well, to tease me. Yeah. Cause I think jokes are very funny and that's. I mean, I married my husband cause he teases me all the time and I love it so much.

[C]

I want to talk about when you mentioned a lot of times you're not in charge of casting and you don't get to control who you have to work with.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

And sometimes you have to work with people who are not as good as you are.

[B]

Mm. I think it is very natural and normal and toddler esque to be jealous or envious of someone who has something that you want. Like when you're a toddler and you want french fries and someone has french fries, you're angry at that you hate that person. I think it's. We're primates, so you can't get around it. So if you can't get around it, you just have to be aware of it. And for me in particular, I can't suck it up. I have a barrier here of the energy that I will protect because I have a finite amount of energy each day and I want to make sure that I'm taking a good portion of it home to my family at night and I'm still able to engage with them even with long days. But I also think that, I think when you take someone else's bait of any negative emotion, you have to be really, really careful. Because if you don't transform it, you will transmit it and then you're part of the problem. And that's even worse because you're part of the problem that you're complaining about. So I do take that very seriously. When something negative happens, I'm like, if I don't transform this, I will transmit it. And I just would prefer a better resume. I don't want to be responsible for transmitting a bunch of negative stuff.

[C]

I love that mantra.

[B]

Thanks.

[C]

You're welcome. Compliment executed. There is a little wrinkle though.

[B]

Tell me.

[C]

Which is when you say if you don't transform it, you will transmit it, I think a lot of people will be tempted to say, okay. Whenever I feel an unpleasant emotion, I just immediately need to ward it off.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I'm gonna avoid it or I'm gonna deny it or I'm gonna suppress it. And I don't think that's what you're talking about.

[B]

No, not in the slightest. Transforming something does not mean ignoring it. Transformation means taking something that exists fully, making it something different, and spitting it out, right? You're transforming it.

[C]

So I want to go back to envy for a second. Because you, I think, for most of your life have been immune to envy. You maybe pathologically see the best in people. Some people believe. Some people who know you and love you believe that you bend over backward to see the good in everyone. I've seen you do it with people who don't deserve it even, which is fun. And I can see you're coming around. You're admitting that this might be true.

[B]

No. I'm about to take you down.

[C]

I have a lot of evidence on my side on this one. But you join the envy fold not terribly long ago when I was stunned to find out that you had someone that you envied.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Tell us who and why.

[B]

Listen, Anna Kendrick is aggressively talented, okay? Everything she does is exceptional. And she's gotten a lot of roles that I wanted. A lot of roles that I wanted. And sometimes I think about that and that's where I'm gonna leave it.

[C]

Wait, but not only that. Right? She's also short.

[B]

Uh huh. She's petite. There's a killer set of pipes.

[C]

Yeah. And so she's actually. She's taking your role in the world, not just in movies.

[B]

That's correct.

[C]

I just wanted to remind you of that so you could. You could feel the emotion and now transform it for us.

[B]

Okay, so when I'm hyper fixated on that, I pause. I recognize. Has hyper fixation ever really gotten me anywhere? The answer is no. Rest and restorative behaviors have gotten me somewhere because I'm great at going to get it, but I gotta stop pulling on the plant. I then will go, oh, I wanted that role so much. And then I'll go, was that the only role that's casting this year? Probably not. Probably. There are other roles. Oh, I don't know about any of the other roles because I haven't looked into them. And that is where the I don't know play a big part in my life. You do not know as much as you think you know. Everyone who thinks they know is wrong. We are. Each one of us is a mosaic of our experiences. Right. So every single one of us is built completely differently.

[C]

So what did you do to manage that thing?

[B]

I remembered that she's a different person and deserves those roles. I mean, I really just. I think I probably got to like an umbutu place with her. Like the light in me sees the light in you. Like you are allowed to exist. I don't get all the roles. Just Because I want them. What are you talking about? You know what I mean. I may have thought I was really good for that role or really wanted to do that role, but there's a bunch of other people in charge who have had a bunch of other experiences and other priors that are building a project that I'm not involved in, and they chose her, and that's okay. And I have the choice of how long I'm gonna let that bother me.

[C]

So I think the takeaway here is that you shouldn't give power over your emotions to Anna Kendrick.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

None of you.

[B]

You can't ever have it.

[C]

Do not cede control over your emotions.

[B]

But you know what's so funny is then when she was on the podcast, and she was so, so great on Dax's podcast, she was so vulnerable. And Dax made her come in the house to meet me because he knew he was gonna, like, mend this jealousy I had towards her, and she was so beautiful. And I just. I gave her a big hug, and I was like, oh, my God. I love you so much. I'm all crying constantly. So jealous of you. And then she. And I admitted it, and I felt really good about it after that.

[C]

Wow. I was a little sad that you mended it because I wanted you to sit with a little.

[B]

I feel like I sat with a little discomfort, like, 10 years.

[C]

All right, that's fair. I just didn't know about it until recently. Okay. So, Kristen, you were talking a few minutes ago about playfulness being important.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I thought it'd be fun to play a game.

[B]

Do it.

[C]

Okay. I think maybe in part because of your people pleasing tendencies, this is maybe the silver lining in them, in part because of your emotional intelligence and in part because of your acting skills.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think you are extraordinarily good at dishing out tough love.

[B]

Ooh.

[C]

I have watched you give.

[B]

It's so exhausting, though.

[C]

Well, that's why we're gonna make it a game.

[B]

Okay, great.

[C]

So I've watched you give critical feedback to people in ways that don't crush their souls. I have watched you maybe say things that are honest that other people might not want to hear, and they take it fine because of the way that you deliver it. And so I thought it'd be fun if you could demonstrate that skill for us today.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And you can do it in any of your characters if it's easier for you.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Your choice. The first one is, I'd like you to imagine that you are working with people who are basing decisions on ego instead of facts. What would you say to those people?

[B]

I would start with a question, not a statement, because it's a little bit more communicative. And I always ask, can I pressure test this? And I talk with my hands a lot and I tend to give body feedback that I'm not a threat here to help. Just want to pressure test this by saying that I feel as though I'm also reminding them we're on a team because team members have respect. When they ask permission, they don't just say like, no, you're wrong, or hey, you're doing this. The pointing of the finger thing. Just, you never get a good result. And if you don't get a good result, why even waste your energy trying? And then I would probably speak slowly and thoughtfully so that they knew I was concerned. And. And I would then present a detail that showed them we might be missing something. I would probably say, can I pressure test this? If we hire that person without seeing any others, I just worry. I don't want us to miss some genius that's one audition away from being seen by us. And if we do wait a little bit longer, we could get really lucky. So there's sort of like a flow of emotional math that I'm trying to use when I speak to the person. That's like respect, but not. What's it called when you, like, bow to someone?

[C]

Like, what's that deference I'm hearing from the audience?

[B]

Sure. Don't use deference because then they already know you're not strong enough to pressure test it. Stay in the conversation, but be a team member and then provide them a piece of information that allows them to be reminded that they don't know everything. Because we don't know everything.

[C]

I think. Okay, so I love this sequence here of leading with inquiry rather than advocacy, then showing care and concern and making it clear that this is a collective problem, not just an individual one, and reducing the threat level. My hands are empty. There's no weapon here. Okay, let me ask you to do a couple in character now.

[B]

Oh, my God. Adam. Okay, great. Let's do it.

[C]

Kristen got no warning that this was going to happen. So imagine that you have someone close to you who is dumping their problems on you and complaining a lot. And you need to set a boundary so you can treat me as Elsa and you're Anna. What would you say when Elsa is dragging you down and I can say, rolling. Whenever you're ready.

[B]

Do you know what's so funny? I couldn't do this as Kristin, I would have passed on that question, because I don't know how to do that to someone.

[C]

I know.

[B]

But here's what I think Anna would do.

[C]

Okay, Ready?

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. Hold on, hold on.

[B]

She would say, rolling. Elsa, you know you're my best friend and sister, and we always will be, but when you have these really heavy problems, I'm not sure right now I'm strong enough to carry them. So let's lay them in between us, and I'll still be here with you, but I can't hold them right now. And in.

[C]

I think you might have just escaped an icy blast.

[B]

And hopefully.

[C]

Okay, let me do another one if you're ready. Okay. We're on the Good Place. I am Michael, and I am taking credit for the brilliant idea that you had to get us out of the Bad Place.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Hey, Elnor.

[B]

What up, Mike? You know I was on this team too, right, bro?

[C]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[B]

Thank you. The end. Eleanor would not have a problem saying any of that, but can I tell you how I would handle it? So, like, this is where playfulness, I think, comes back into the equation, because a lot of things can be handled in playfulness if it's really authentically playful. And the truth. You simply state your truth in kind of a playful way that is not really aggressive. Because you need to add this correction right now, and you have to. It's really important you add it with a, Like, a straight spine or like, a confident, energetic signature.

[C]

Okay. I have noticed you have a secret weapon that gets you out of people staying too long at your house. Does anyone ever have the problem of guests overstaying their welcome and you can't

[B]

get rid of them or, whoa, Fright.

[C]

Or somebody shows up in your office and they won't leave? Like, this is a perpetual problem for we agreeable people pleasers.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And yet you have cracked this code.

[B]

What do I do?

[C]

Well, I've seen you do it several times. Dinner is done.

[B]

Get out. No. Just yet.

[C]

No. Maybe you don't even realize you're doing it.

[B]

I might not tell.

[C]

Dinner is done. And you just say, it was so great having you.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

As if, like, you've immediately taken dinner into the past. It's like, not. It is great having you. No, no, no. This has already happened. It's done. Go home. But you say it so kindly. It doesn't feel like you're kicking other people out.

[B]

This is what writers do in a writer's room, right? They want to write a scene between two people. And they want the motivation and action to be one thing, but they can't use those words, so they have to do two. Oftentimes, writers have to make two things work at once. So if you want someone to leave but you still want them to like you, you just have to put a little bit of thought into what you say. And apparently I have mastered the it was so great having you.

[C]

That's exactly how you do it.

[B]

It was so great. You know, my mom has a sign in her house that says, please leave by nine cause we're real early to bed people. But you're accomplishing two things. You are saying, stating a genuine experience. Because I don't have people over to my house. Like when you're over for dinner, I don't not want you in my life or over to my house. But I also know to protect myself and my energy, I do need to go to bed by nine. So if you want to stay up and talk all night, you are welcome to, but it will not be with me.

[C]

I found this so useful. I now I say this to people only I find myself sometimes wanting to say it when they arrive. Oh, yeah, somebody walks in the door. It was so nice having you. That doesn't work.

[B]

You know what, though? Annoyance is the price we pay for community. And again, damn it, K. Bell, you

[C]

just transformed a thing that I prefer to transmit, which is, I am annoyed by your presence. Go home.

[B]

You can totally be annoyed. You can be annoyed, but for someone you've invited into your house, my value system would say you probably can't kick them out the second they get there. And we're supposed to be annoyed with people. We're supposed to be annoyed with people. We're not supposed to be the same. We're supposed to be different. And you're supposed to be annoyed with Uncle Randy at dinner because he has some archaic point of view. And if he talks about it too much, you can say like, I just. Can we please move on from that subject? You know, you're allowed to state your opinion. They're allowed to state theirs back. And Uncle Randy sucks. And he's always gonna suck, you guys. He's not gonna not suck. But he's your uncle. He's your mom's only brother, and you have him over for dinner once in a while. You know why? Cause if he sucks this much to you, he doesn't have any other friends. That's like the four times Uncle Randy gets some community. So make the chicken and listen to him. So I've Tried to be really mindful with my words. And one of the things of, like, cutting people out. What are the other things people say when they, like, you know. Destroy?

[C]

No contact.

[B]

No contact.

[C]

Ghosting.

[B]

Yeah, ghosting.

[C]

Or like, this is not a healthy relationship for me.

[B]

Come on. Then you need to expand your capacity is what I would say.

[C]

It is. Lightning. Round time. First question is, which of all the roles you played, which character did you identify most with?

[B]

There are slivers of me in each one of them, certainly, but Anna of Arendelle is probably the closest agree.

[C]

Okay. The one you identify least with. I was torn between Eleanor and Sarah Marshall. Is either of those. Right?

[B]

It's Sarah Marshall. I identify quite a bit with Eleanor. Listen, if you studied internal family systems, you know, there are different people coming up from the living room all the time. Okay. And I've got different people popping up, and one's a professional and one's a badass, and one's real snarky and one's real tired. So they're all in there.

[C]

We're gonna debate this later.

[B]

You don't like it?

[C]

No. You don't have different people in your head. They're just different aspects of your personality. Samantha, we don't need all the parts.

[B]

Well, they don't have to be different people, but could they like, at least have different wigs? Let's make it fun.

[C]

Adam. My God, you have to bring up the wigs with me. So cruel. Okay, if you could play one role again, who would you love to reinhabit?

[B]

Eleanor. She was so fun and she said such dirty things.

[C]

Worst career advice you ever gotten.

[B]

It wasn't explicitly said to me. It was absorbed by comparison. And the things I saw around me, which was try to be what they want you to be. And I, for many, many years was like auditioning for things. I was like, oh, Emily Blunt, Michelle Williams Enemy, Anna Kendrick again. And my husband finally said to me, and I was like saying something about some Oscar worthy indie that I didn't get. And he was like, my God, stay in your lane. And I was like, what? What? But I was like, oh, yeah, wait, if I stay in my lane, I actually can figure out how to drive this car. And I can bring my own weird personality to things. Or I can look for things that I feel good about.

[C]

Love it. Tell me something that you have changed your mind about lately or rethought one sentence.

[B]

I'm accepting the fact that over explaining is a form of begging.

[C]

Wow, that's really powerful. And I am not going to Ask you to expand upon it, as tempted as I am. Okay, what's a show we should all check out that we might not know yet? You give the best recommendations.

[B]

Okay, guys, if you want the truth, it is called Million Dollar Secret. It is on Netflix. It's a real life version of werewolves and villagers or mafia the game.

[C]

Okay, what's a lightning question you have for me?

[B]

Do you ever have days when you feel you're completely overtaken by the negative energy of the world and want to throw your hands up in the air and not give people good or balancing advice? And if you do, how do you combat that?

[C]

No.

[B]

Were you proving to me that you can answer short questions?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That's fair.

[C]

I don't ever have a day like that. Ever. I can't even. I can't fathom it. Because I have the great fortune of having extraordinary people in my life and getting to teach brilliant students who inspire me to want to learn more. So I have something worth teaching. I have an incredible family who comes home and makes fun of me every day and makes me realize I need to get better at everything I'm trying to do.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

And I think everywhere I look, I see people who have huge hearts and who are trying to make the world a better place. And those are not the people in the headlines. Those are not the people who want to run the free world. Those are not always the people who want to be CEOs of big companies, but they are the people who make the world go round. And I think it's impossible to feel pessimistic or discouraged when you look around and see just if everyone in the room. If you were to just pause for a second and think about how many people you know that you have 100% faith in their motivation, their values, their character. If there are more than two people on your list, that is a reason to be hopeful. And I have a lot of people on that list. And so I look at the world and think, yeah, there's an amplified sliver of the world that sucks really badly. And I am not gonna let those people dominate my vision.

[B]

I also feel bad sometimes for those

[C]

people

[B]

because that's such a beautiful pov.

[C]

Ladies and gentlemen, Kristen Bell. Rethinking is hosted by me, adam grant. The show is produced by ted with cosmic standard. Our producer is jessica glaser. Our editor is alejandra salazar. Our engineer is asia pilar simpson. Our technical director is jacob winick. And our fact checker is paul durbin. Our team includes eliza smith, roxanne. Hi. Lash ban chang, julia dickerson, tansika sung manivong and whitney pennington rogers. Original music by hans dale su and alison layton brown.

[B]

Let's focus for a second, Kristin.