Sunday Pick: The Science of Recharging on Weekends and Vacations | ReThinking with Adam Grant

Summary

Sunday Pick: The Science of Recharging on Weekends and Vacations | ReThinking with Adam Grant

Podcast Information:

• Title: TED Talks Daily
• Host/Author: TED
• Episode: Sunday Pick: The Science of Recharging on Weekends and Vacations | ReThinking with Adam Grant
• Release Date: July 6, 2025

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Introduction: The Importance of Taking Breaks

Elise Hu opens the episode by highlighting the common knowledge about the necessity of relaxation and recharging. However, she points out a prevalent issue: many individuals either don’t utilize their vacation days or fail to unwind even during weekends. This episode of "Work Life with Adam Grant," selected by TED Audio Collective, delves into the science behind taking breaks, aiming to prevent burnout and optimize time off for enhanced productivity and well-being.

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Implementing Mandatory Vacations: Shashank Nijam’s Initiative

[03:18] Shashank Nijam:
"It was so alien that I thought, this is something I definitely need to implement and try out."

Shashank Nijam, founder and CEO of Simplifying, shares his transformative journey in addressing employee burnout. Observing that his team members were overworked and rarely taking time off, Nijam decided to implement a mandatory vacation policy: “Everyone's going to take a week off every seven weeks.”

[03:55] Shashank Nijam:
"We actually added a stick to it as well from day one."

To ensure compliance, Nijam introduced strict measures: employees would lose a week's pay if they engaged in any work-related communication during their designated time off.

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Challenges with Unlimited Vacation Policies

Adam Grant critiques the often-intended positive impact of unlimited vacation policies, explaining that without clear guidelines, employees may take fewer days off due to fear of appearing less dedicated. Nijam’s experience echoes this sentiment as he recounts initial resistance when Simplifying transitioned from an unlimited to a structured vacation system.

[06:22] Shashank Nijam:
"We started with an unlimited vacation policy and it worked very well for certain employees... but for the other half of the company... we just never took time off."

This disparity highlighted cultural differences within the global team, particularly contrasting the vacation culture in Spain with that in Singapore and India.

---

The Power of Regular, Short Vacations Over Infrequent, Long Breaks

Adam Grant emphasizes research indicating that frequent short vacations are more restorative than infrequent long breaks. Studies suggest that taking multiple week-long vacations throughout the year can significantly reduce stress and enhance well-being more effectively than a single extended vacation.

[08:36] Shashank Nijam:
"What if we take a week off every seven weeks? And that's where it struck, huh? Okay, let's do this."

Nijam implemented this by allowing one week off every eight weeks to accommodate team size and workflow, ensuring that vacations were staggered and no two team members were away simultaneously.

---

Benefits of Mandatory Vacation Policies

Shashank Nijam shares the positive outcomes of this policy, noting significant improvements in productivity, creativity, and employee happiness.

[13:29] Shashank Nijam:
"We learned that productivity, creativity, and employee happiness were all up significantly."

Employees reported higher engagement and enthusiasm upon returning from their breaks, fostering a more vibrant and dynamic work environment.

Baiba Draymond, a project director at Simplifying, highlights another key benefit:

[15:56] Baiba Draymond:
"It's basically allowing myself to rest and not feel guilty about it... it's allowed to not care for a week."

This psychological shift helps employees truly detach from work, enhancing the restorative quality of their time off.

---

Research Insights: Understanding Recovery

Adam Grant introduces Sabina Sonnentag, an organizational psychologist, who elucidates the concept of recovery through two distinct activities:

1. Relaxation:
   [22:44] Sabina Sonnentag:
   "Relaxation means a low sympathetic activation. So lower blood pressure, lower heart rate."

   Activities like reading or taking a bath fall under this category, promoting calmness and serenity.

2. Mastery Experiences:
   [23:16] Sabina Sonnentag:
   "Mastery experiences could be physical activities or learning a new skill that challenges you."

   Engaging in hobbies that require focus and provide a sense of accomplishment, such as cooking or playing sports, can be equally, if not more, restorative.

Adam Grant relates this to his personal preference for mastery activities:

[24:10] Adam Grant:
"I feel like everything I enjoy doing with my time and what recharges me also is... mentally or physically stimulating."

These activities not only provide a break from work-related thoughts but also instill a sense of progress and confidence.

---

Personal Anecdotes: Mastery Over Relaxation

Dan Pelosi shares his love for cooking as a means of recovery, illustrating how mastery activities can rejuvenate the mind and spirit.

[22:16] Dan Pelosi:
"Making myself dinner or having my friends over, it's an easy win."

Through cooking, Dan finds focus and creativity, which allows him to detach from work stresses effectively.

[26:07] Adam Grant:
"Each time he experiments with a recipe, he gains a skill and accomplishes something new that expands his sense of mastery."

Dan’s journey from a marketing professional to a full-time recipe creator underscores the profound impact mastery activities can have on personal well-being.

---

Designing Effective Recovery Strategies

Sabina Sonnentag advises individuals to tailor their recovery activities based on their personal needs and the desired outcomes:

[26:52] Sabina Sonnentag:
"Go for where the greatest need is... If it’s evening, strive for relaxation to help sleep better. If it’s the morning, engage in mastery activities to start the day energized."

This personalized approach ensures that recovery is both effective and aligned with one’s daily rhythms and responsibilities.

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Scalability of Mandatory Vacation Policies

Adam Grant and Shashank Nijam discuss the feasibility of implementing mandatory vacation policies in organizations of varying sizes. Initially, Nijam suggested such policies are best suited for companies with fewer than 100 employees. However, Grant counters this by asserting that even large organizations can adopt scalable versions of this model by leveraging diverse teams and advanced planning.

[16:28] Adam Grant:
"This is an experiment worth running in any organization of any size."

Shashank agrees, acknowledging that while larger organizations might observe different outcomes, the fundamental benefits remain consistent.

---

Conclusion: Reimagining Workplace Breaks

Adam Grant encapsulates the episode’s core message: taking time off is essential, but how we spend that time is equally important. Effective recovery strategies can transform time off from merely a respite to a source of rejuvenation and creativity.

[25:48] Adam Grant:
"Breaks shouldn't be a time to recharge, they should be a time to rejoice."

By fostering a culture that prioritizes well-being through structured and meaningful breaks, organizations can cultivate a happier, more productive workforce.

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Key Takeaways:

• Mandatory Vacation Policies: Structured time off can significantly enhance employee well-being and productivity.
• Frequency Over Duration: Regular short breaks are more beneficial than infrequent long vacations.
• Recovery Activities: Balancing relaxation with mastery activities ensures comprehensive recovery.
• Cultural Adaptation: Policies should be tailored to fit the cultural and operational dynamics of the organization.
• Scalability: Both small and large organizations can implement effective vacation policies with proper planning and flexibility.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Shashank Nijam [03:44]:
  "Everyone's going to take a week off every seven weeks."

• Adam Grant [13:16]:
  "It's better to have a happy employee working on a task that's slightly delayed than a completely exhausted employee delivering on time."

• Sabina Sonnentag [23:45]:
  "Mastery activities ask us for focusing and putting our ATT on a very specific topic... which can provide some aspect of recovery."

---

By rethinking how we approach time off, both individuals and organizations can unlock greater levels of performance, creativity, and satisfaction, ultimately fostering a sustainable and thriving work environment.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

Hey, TED Talks Daily listeners. I'm Elise Hu. Today we have an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective, handpicked by us for you. We've all heard how important it is to relax and recharge, but in reality, a lot of people don't use their vacation days or even unwind on the weekends at all. This week we're breaking down why that might not be a great idea in an episode of Work Life with Adam Grant. Today's pick from the archives is all about the science of taking a break. You'll learn how to prevent burnout and make the most of your time off to bounce back stronger than ever. You can find Work Life with Adam Grant wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about the TED Audio collective@audiocollective ted.com now onto the episode, right after a quick break.

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[Shashank Nijam]

Was just so alien that I thought, this is something I definitely need to implement and try out.

[Adam Grant]

This is Shashank Nijam, founder and CEO of a small aviation consultancy. Simplifying. A few years ago he noticed that some of his team members were overworked.

[Shashank Nijam]

I don't think they had taken the time off in the longest time possible. We're going to try something new.

[Adam Grant]

So he made an announcement.

[Shashank Nijam]

Everyone's going to take a week off every seven weeks.

[Adam Grant]

That's right. Mandatory vacation for everyone.

[Shashank Nijam]

So we actually added a stick to it as well from day one.

[Adam Grant]

Wait, so you punish people if they're working?

[Shashank Nijam]

Yes. On their week off, we will punish you if you're working.

[Adam Grant]

What happens to me? How much money do I lose?

[Shashank Nijam]

You lose a week's worth of pay.

[Adam Grant]

Wow, that's very serious.

[Shashank Nijam]

If you reply to any email, WhatsApp or Slack message internally or to a client, your pay will be docked for the week.

[Adam Grant]

Shashank is onto something. We're not just failing to take enough vacation. Even when we do, we're failing to use our breaks effectively. And the result is a workforce that feels like it never really gets a rest. It's time to reimagine our time off from the ground up. I'm Adam Grant and this is Work Life, my podcast with the TED Audio Collective. I'm an organizational psychologist. I study how to make work not suck. In this show, we explore how to unlock the potential in people and workplaces. Today, time off from work and how we can remake breaks to actually get the rest we need. We know that taking time away from work is vital to health, well being and performance. But many people don't even use their paid vacation days. When my mom retired after three decades as a teacher, she had almost an entire year of unused sick days. She felt a responsibility to be there, and she was saving them for an emergency that never came. You probably know people who do something similar. Nearly half of Americans don't use all their paid vacations. Some companies have tried to solve that problem by offering unlimited paid time off. It sounds great in theory. Instead of restricting freedom, treat people like adults and trust them to manage their own vacations. Sign me up for as much vacation as I want. But the research paints a more complicated picture. On the one hand, unlimited vacations do convey trust and autonomy. On the other hand, people often end up taking fewer vacation days. When no one knows how many days off are okay. People start hesitating to take them. They're afraid to take more vacation than their peers. They don't want to look like slackers. Soon an arms race ensues where everyone minimizes time off to prove their commitment. It's a vicious cycle. Shashank Nijam saw it happen at his startup, Simplifying.

[Shashank Nijam]

We started with an unlimited vacation policy and it worked very well for certain employees, let's say in Europe, who would definitely take that up. But then for the other half of the company, which was not in Europe or North America, that was a bit of a challenge because some, like me and some staff in Singapore or India, we just never took time off. There was an employee in Spain who was giving us a lesson, a masterclass in taking vacations. He was off every week in April. In the summer, he's off for his birthday week and then he's definitely off for Christmas to see his grandmother. Growing up in Singapore, this was unheard of. Singapore is polar opposite end of the siesta lifestyle in Spain. So this was new. This was surprising. But I have to admit, I learn to respect him for holding his boundaries and showing the team why vacations are important to begin with.

[Adam Grant]

That employee Marco, was careful to set boundaries. He didn't just take vacations, he protected his nights and weekends. Seeing this was transformative for Shashank, and.

[Shashank Nijam]

In the end, it allowed me to rethink my own paradigm. Work is all about work, work, work, work, work, which I'm sure a lot of people listening, let's say from Singapore or even London would relate to. Whereas Marco showed us this can be.

[Adam Grant]

Holistic, Shashank learned about evidence that taking a sabbatical can reduce burnout. When people are able to take extended leave from work, their stress declines and wellbeing rises. Especially if they really detach from their jobs and leave their home countries. Sometimes they also return with a better appreciation for work life balance. Shashank came across a designer who would shut down his company every seven years, forcing himself and his employees to a year long sabbatical. But sabbaticals are rare outside academia and.

[Shashank Nijam]

The military, and I was not in a position business wise, personally to take a whole year off at that time.

[Adam Grant]

But that was the light bulb moment. He realized he could start mandating Short, regular vacations.

[Shashank Nijam]

Hey, even if we can't take one year off every seven years, what if we take a week off every seven weeks? And that's where it struck, huh? Okay, let's do this.

[Adam Grant]

One week of vacation for seven weeks of work. We typically think the longer the vacation, the better we'll feel. But research suggests that the frequency of vacations is more important than the duration. A number of studies have shown that taking a two week vacation isn't any more restorative than going away for one week. So if you want to reduce stress and boost well being, instead of one long summer holiday, you're probably better off scheduling a few separate week long vacations.

[Shashank Nijam]

If we have these short bursts of vacation throughout the year, you're always recharged and happy at work. It's like a rocket trying to leave the earth's atmosphere with those little boosters at different stages rather than just trying to, you know, burn a huge, one big piece of rocket.

[Baiba Draymond]

I thought it's really interesting approach to offer because he was willing to really give everybody one week off every two months. I think that's a lot.

[Adam Grant]

This is Baiba Draymond. She lives in Valencia, Spain, and she's a project director at Simplifying. She started as an intern in 2016, right when the new vacation policy was being implemented. And she saw some resistance.

[Baiba Draymond]

They were like, what if I wanted to take more than one week off? There were so many questions in the beginning. So the first few weeks were just like, okay, let's just try all of my colleagues. One by one, they took that week off and they were really like, pushed not to use any communication tools, not response messages, anything, anything. And from what I saw, they were super happy. One of them would start painting classes. The other one, I think he went to a yoga retreat. So the first vacations, these mandatory vacation times were like, people really paid attention to them. But it's also something new, it's something different. It was quite exciting.

[Adam Grant]

But like many good experiments, it took some iterations to get it right. Because simplifying as a service provider, they learned that they needed to alert clients weeks in advance when their project manager would be off from work. They also needed internal backup on projects. So rather than just one person on a project, there would be two minimum. And the vacations were staggered. So they weren't taking their time off at the same time. Think about your role. If you took a week off every other month, who would cover for you and who would you cover for? Shashank's team found that Based on the nature of their work and the size of their company, they needed to make more adjustments.

[Shashank Nijam]

Every seven weeks was a bit too often for a small team. Like people were just in and out, in and out, and they were taking weeks off back to back from each other. And that did not allow for transitions to happen within the team. And that was a bigger challenge because we were not a very large company. There were not a lot of systems and processes. A lot of things were based off on our daily standup call, which we did every morning for 30 minutes. So imagine if Adam, you are my manager and you're off one week and you come back and I'm off that week, There is no handover, and then by the time it's the week after and someone else is off.

[Adam Grant]

So Shashank changed the policy from every seven weeks to every eight weeks. He set a rule that time off needed to be spaced out. People on the same team couldn't take back to back weeks off and employees would stick to one week off at a time unless it was an extenuating circumstance.

[Shashank Nijam]

So we made a few changes in that first iteration that was very, very important. And then we learned from it. And since then the policy has stayed the same. And it's been more than five years now.

[Adam Grant]

We've been doing this in toxic cultures. Time off is a reward earned by working to exhaustion. Burnout is proof of dedication and and vacations are required to recover. In healthy cultures, time off is a right granted to everyone. Well being is a top priority and vacations are encouraged to rejuvenate.

[Shashank Nijam]

I feel the purpose of this week off is to let your guard down, is to try something new which is energy giving and not necessarily energy draining. It is my responsibility to ensure our business survives. Our business can only survive and thrive if the employees are themselves thriving. And thriving needs to be holistic, which can only come if they are taking regular time off. And I would rather have a happy employee working on a task that is slightly delayed than a completely exhausted employee delivering on time.

[Adam Grant]

Let that sink in. It's better to have a happy employee working on a task that's slightly delayed than a completely exhausted employee delivering on time. Shashank can back that up with data.

[Shashank Nijam]

We did a statistical analysis after our first few week offs and we learned that productivity, creativity and employee happiness were all up significantly. I used to have this guy, he loved sitting in numbers and being in Excel and he comes back from his week off, I don't know what he did or what he didn't do that week. And here he is in client brainstorm sessions giving the best ideas in the room. And I'm just looking at him. People were coming back and participating in meetings like they had not previously. And we see this uptick in general in employee happiness. Like, you know, if I ask them, how happy are you after the week off? You can see the smiles. You can see, oh, you know, I'm an 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 today, rather than completely burnt out and exhausted.

[Adam Grant]

Even if your workplace doesn't have mandatory vacation time, there's a lesson here for motivating people to take their vacations. If you ask people why they don't use all their paid time off, most will tell you they feel worried about falling behind and guilty about leaving extra work for their colleagues. In an experiment with thousands of employees at a professional services firm with my colleagues Reb Rebelli and Grace Cormier, I found that asking people to reflect on the personal benefits of time off didn't motivate them to use more vacation days. What made a difference was inviting them to consider how their time off would benefit others. Just reflecting on how their family members and colleagues would appreciate them being well rested and energized was enough to spur a 5% increase in vacation time. People started to realize that taking time off wasn't a selfish decision, it was an investment in well being that would have ripple effects on the people around them too. Those ripple effects were apparent to Shashank.

[Shashank Nijam]

And here at Simplifying. Because different people are taking different times off at different times of the year. Everyone is bringing back a different type of energy, a positively different type of energy which is needed on a constant basis. Someone just had a week off a week ago and they come back fully rejuvenated and happy to continue to work. And that affects the mood of every single person in the team, which I do not think can be achieved if you're taking two to three weeks off a year or you're taking six weeks off in the middle of the year.

[Adam Grant]

Baiba, the project director at Simplifying, has noticed another benefit of the mandatory vacation policy. It gives people permission to take time off.

[Baiba Draymond]

It's basically allowing myself to rest and not feel guilty about it because you see the rest of your colleagues on Instagram, like sharing things from work or whatever, you are allowed to not care for a week. It's lovely, it's nice recommended.

[Adam Grant]

And she's learned to detach completely during her week off.

[Baiba Draymond]

I will just directly switch off all my notifications from Slack, from Gmail and everything. It can wait until Monday. It's only a week.

[Adam Grant]

Do you think that this mandatory vacation policy, a week every, let's say eight weeks, is that feasible in an organization of 100 people? 1,000 people. 100,000 people.

[Shashank Nijam]

I truly believe this can be implemented by any company with less than 100 employees. And you can implement this by staggering the week offs, ensuring that everyone has great visibility on who is off which week. I need to know seven weeks out when you will be off. So for example, for my stuff, I know six months in advance when someone is going to be off. The clients know months in advance and weeks in advance when someone will be off. So first, transparency is key. Second, you don't have to implement the model exactly like we are doing it. Please iterate based on your organization.

[Adam Grant]

I find your perspective so refreshing except for one thing. There's one thing I just vehemently disagree with. I don't think this is limited to small organizations at all. I think in a company of 100,000 people or an organization of a million people, this is completely scalable. Number one, the bigger your organization, the more people there are who have skills to backstop you or cover for you. Number two, as a manager you could implement this in your team. And obviously if you have interdependencies with other teams or with clients, you need to sort that out. Right? But within your span of control, this is something you could implement in your own world. What I would say is this is an experiment worth running in any organization of any size.

[Shashank Nijam]

Absolutely. And you will see impacts and results that I may not have seen. I have seen certain results in my employees and in my company and larger organizations might see completely different results.

[Adam Grant]

Getting time off from work is important, but it's not enough. We also need to be thoughtful about how we spend our time away to make sure we're getting the most out of our recovery. More on that after the break.

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[Adam Grant]

Imagine your dream vacation. Maybe you're on a beach with a cool drink in your hand. Or perhaps you're looking at beautiful architecture in a foreign city. The stress of your job and everyday life have melted away and now it's Monday and you're back to work. Your dream vacation is over and so is the lift you got from it.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

The benefits of the vacation fade out quite quickly.

[Adam Grant]

This is Sabina Sonnentag. She's an organizational psychologist at the University of Mannheim in Germany. And she's one of the world's foremost experts on time off and recovery.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

So about two weeks after the end of the vacation, people are again at the level of their well being as they were before the vacation. And this can be even stronger when they face heavy stressors when they come back from vacation.

[Adam Grant]

So is it, is it fair to say that a vacation is like a band aid? It might temporarily stop the bleeding, but it doesn't heal the wound.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

It's enough just to stop the bleeding again and again.

[Adam Grant]

Sabina has published landmark studies of job stress and how we recover from it.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

So I'm very much interested in finding out what people can do to unwind, to recuperate, to feel better after a hard day.

[Dan Pelosi]

I find it just the thing that keeps me alive and keeps me happy.

[Adam Grant]

This is Dan Pelosi. He has a background in marketing, but his real passion has always been cooking. It's his favorite way to unwind.

[Dan Pelosi]

I might have not had a great day at the gym or jumped off my peloton 10 minutes early. Those are not easy wins for me. Making myself dinner or having my friends over, it's an easy win.

[Adam Grant]

When you think about unwinding, cooking may not be the first thing that comes to mind. It might sound a little vigorous for something that's supposed to help you relax. Maybe watching tv, taking a bath, or reading a book sounds more like your speed. And for good reason. That's the familiar form of recovery, what we call relaxation. But Sabina finds that there are actually two very different kinds of recovery activities, both of which can have benefits.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

Relaxation. Is that what many people think when they think of recovery? Unwinding, maybe doing nothing, just relaxing. And so in terms more physiological processes, it means a low sympathetic activation. So lower blood pressure, lower heart rate. But that is not the only avenue to becoming recovered.

[Adam Grant]

The second kind of recovery activity is what Sabina calls a mastery experience.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

So that could be physical activities, physical exercise that is in most instances not immediately relaxing, but activating activities that are challenging. So for instance, learning a new language or having a hobby that really asks to step outside one's comfort zone. So that can be experiences that are recovering as well.

[Adam Grant]

Part of what I loved about this distinction is people have been giving me a hard time for failing to relax. But I feel like everything I enjoy doing with my time and what recharges me also is, you know, is doing something that's mentally or physically stimulating. So playing word games, you know, going, going on a run or a bike ride, or playing a tennis match, and actually feeling exhausted afterward physically, but feeling for some reason mentally refreshed. How does this work?

[Sabina Sonnentag]

There are several processes in place. So one can be the physical exhaustion that results very often in a state of relaxation when the sort of undoing of the depletion kicks in.

[Adam Grant]

In other words, when you complete a fun challenge, you feel joyfully exhausted. Maybe you've felt this when doing a crossword puzzle or an art project. Part of the benefit of mastery activities is a sense of progress and confidence. But they also help us detach from work related thoughts.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

So these really challenging activities ask us for focusing and putting our ATT on a very specific topic, a specific thing. Activity could be a specific person and therefore our thoughts are not distracted but really focused. And that can provide some aspect of recovery.

[Adam Grant]

I think you're helping me justify my preference for mastery over relaxation.

[Sabina Sonnentag]

Yeah, happy to do so.

[Adam Grant]

Take cooking. Your mind doesn't wander to your job because you're focused on the recipe. You're immersed in preparing the ingredients and assembling the dish, maybe even getting creative and adding your own flair, which Dan has enjoyed doing for a long time.

[Dan Pelosi]

I mean, it started day one. I was born into an Italian American and Portuguese American family, so it was sort of my birthright. My mother tells stories of having me on the counter as a baby, sort of, you know, hanging out with her while she cooked. And I would just sort of happily be there. And then as I grew, I would be helping her cook. And I was sort of the official taste tester. And I remember my grandfather saying, do you think the marinara is done? And I would always say no, because I didn't want to stop tasting it.

[Adam Grant]

Each time he experiments with a recipe, he gains a skill and accomplishes something new that expands his sense of mastery.

[Dan Pelosi]

Being in the kitchen and cooking is like kind of an easy win. Like, I think that's why it's relaxing to me. Like, I'm pretty much like never bummed out or disappointed with what I make because I'm like, this is like a fun space for me. It's like a safe space. The wins are easy for me in the kitchen. And for me, it's never about the result. Like, what do I learn from the result?

[Adam Grant]

I think it's similar to why so many people choose a game like Wordle as their, you know, as kind of their mini mastery hobby.

[Dan Pelosi]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Mine just results in something edible.

[Adam Grant]

So how do you know whether to aim for relaxation or mastery?

[Sabina Sonnentag]

Go for where the greatest need is and. Or explore doing this one of the experiences or the others? If we look in terms of outcomes, I mean, they have many overlapping consequences. But the most striking difference is that relaxation results more in positive affective states that are calm, that are quiet, that are serene, whereas mastery results in more activated positive states. So being excited, being alert, being active, and so on. And so therefore, in the evening, it could sometimes be better to strive for relaxation because that should help to sleep better. Whereas in the morning, if it's possible, it's better to do something that stimulates and that results in positive affective states and not necessarily in calmness and serenity.

[Adam Grant]

Sabina's research applies not only to evenings and weekends, but also to full blown vacations. Depending on the kind of relief you need, you might opt for a relaxing beach vacation or a mountain climbing expedition and feel rejuvenated either way. Of course, it can be hard to find time during the work week for full recovery, so some researchers recommend treating weekends like vacations. Dan remembers one Particular weekend like that. After a few stressful weeks, he planned a little vacation with his friends out to Fire island in New York. But instead of lounging by the pool or dipping in the ocean, Dan found himself relaxing by going to the kitchen.

[Dan Pelosi]

I was at probably my peak of stress and being overworked, and it just was. It's just so beautiful. Getting into my groove and handling beautiful produce, firing the grill, making a beautiful meal. Um, it just is the thing that brings me back to life. It feels like I have air around my thoughts, like I have that space. I have room to sort of breathe in my mind so I can really focus on that task in front of me. And so therapeutic because I'm focused on one singular task and I'm really driven by the payoff, which is putting the food on the table, saying let's eat, and letting everyone dive in. And that, to me, is just the best.

[Adam Grant]

When Covid hit, Dan's go to method of relaxing resulted in something unexpected.

[Dan Pelosi]

I started just basically creating teachable content on my Instagram, and suddenly the followers just sort of started flowing in. And every day I was just like, here's how you make tuna, here's how I make pizza, here's the five things I keep on my counter, here's what's in my pantry. And that allowed me to really take off and realize, like, wow, this weekend hobby is actually something that I can use to help people during this global pandemic. And then from there it's just been sort of like the first year I worked my job at Ann Taylor or at the brands that I was working at, and I built Grossi Pelosi, and it was the hardest I've ever worked in my whole life, but it was the most joyful, amazing thing and it kind of got me through the pandemic.

[Adam Grant]

He ended up gaining so much mastery in cooking that he left the marketing world behind. He's now a full time recipe creator as Grossie Pelosi. He's one of Instagram's most beloved recipe developers and lifestyle creators. He's a regular on Good Morning America and he has a new cookbook called let's Eat. Dan's idea of relaxing has brought his fans a lot of joy. And now that cooking has become his job, he might need a new mastery activity to recuperate.

[Baiba Draymond]

Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Real talk. If there's one store that I absolutely.

[Lumen Sponsor]

Love walking around, it's Sephora.

[Baiba Draymond]

It's my total guilty pleasure. They have amazing brands that other people don't have and I find something great every time I walk in and there's literally one down the street from me, so I do that a lot. It's so fun to shop in the store and online and the products are just too good. No regrets ever. For example, one of my favorite beauty brands is makeup by Mario, who just launched his new lip gloss that I absolutely love. So the next time you're in the market for great beauty, shop all the hottest products and brands only at Sephora.

[Adam Grant]

Loneliness as the feeling is part of.

[Dan Pelosi]

The human condition, and it's not necessarily my job to rise above it. It's my job to listen to it.

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[Adam Grant]

This is Car Tracks with Turtle Wax. Your car says a lot about you. So if we asked your car what it would say about you, what would it say? Listen, you dropped one of those tiny cheeseburgers under the seat like last week and now we're both dry heaving at the stench. Do us a favor, grab some Turtle Wax and let's get to work. This has been Car Tracks with Turtle Wax. You are how you car Whichever hobbies energize you, we need to reimagine our workplaces to make space for them. I hate it when leaders say, I hope you get to recharge. Breaks shouldn't be a time to recharge, they should be a time to rejoice. If work is exhausting people to the point that they're using their time off to recover, you might have a burnout culture. A healthy organization doesn't leave people drained in the first place. Bad bosses see breaks as a lack of dedication to work. Good bosses recognize breaks as a source of energy for work, so they're happy to grant time off. But great bosses see breaks as a right, not a reward. They care about your life beyond work, so they insist on time off. I'm my own boss, so what did I do During a recent long weekend? I put the finishing touches on this episode, do what I say, not what I do. But not long before that, I took our teenager to a conference and she got to plan a few days of vacation in Norway. We hiked up a mountain overlooking a fjord and went whitewater rafting. Out of the five Whitewater levels, she picked Class 4. She was all about mastery. As for me, and you were the.

[Baiba Draymond]

Only one who fell out.

[Adam Grant]

Next week on Work Life.

[Sarah Gibson Tuttle]

And so I would rather people learn how to effectively hack a bureaucracy so.

[Lumen Sponsor]

That they don't actually make the bureaucracy worse.

[Adam Grant]

This episode was produced by Courtney Guarino. Our team includes Daphne Chen, Constanza Gallardo, Dan o', Donnell, Greta Cohn, Grace Rubenstein, Daniela Balarezzo, Ban Chang, Michelle Quint, Alejandro Salazar, and Roxanne hi Lash. Our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our show is mixed by Ben Chano. Original music by Hans Dale, sue and Alex and Leighton Brown. Special thanks to our sponsors, UKG and Destination Canada for their research. Gratitude to the following lead authors on paid time off and vacations, Jessica Debloom, Sabina Gertz, Janna Kunel, Charlotte Fritz and Cassie Mogilner Jones. On recovery, Bonnie, Hayden Chang and Christina Guthier. And on sabbaticals and extended leaves, Dalia Etzion, Kira Shahbram, Oraneet Davidson, Dove Eden, and DJ dedonna.

[Lumen Sponsor]

The laughing.

[Adam Grant]

The laughing is bad. That's okay.

[Shashank Nijam]

It's funny.

[Baiba Draymond]

No, because it sounds fake. Because I know what your laugh sounds like.

[Adam Grant]

Oh.

[Baiba Draymond]

It's usually more pronounced, like, oh.

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[Baiba Draymond]

Hey, guys, it's Hannah from Gigli Squad. You know, I love beauty, and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping. It's like a glam experience. The beauty advisors actually get beauty, unlike those big box stores, and they give me all the advice I need. And I love going with the products you can only find at Sephora. My new favorite, Kayali Fragrance, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation, and finally restocked my Lineage Lip Mask, all with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried Day Shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store, it's the beauty destination. Go. You'll thank me later.

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