Sunday Pick: Unsolicited Advice: How to handle layoffs with care | from Fixable

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Unsolicited Advice: How to Handle Layoffs with Care”

TED Talks Daily • March 29, 2026 • Guest Hosts: Frances Frey & Anne Morris (from Fixable)

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Episode Overview

This episode, a crossover from the TED Audio Collective’s show Fixable, tackles the difficult and timely issue of organizational layoffs. Hosts Frances Frey and Anne Morris focus not on those let go, but on the “survivors”: the managers, leaders, and remaining employees left to pick up the pieces and move an organization forward after layoffs. Their central purpose is to provide actionable, empathetic advice rooted in organizational research and real-world experience—moving away from sterile, “business as usual” approaches and toward honest, humility-driven leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Layoff Landscape & Its Normalization

[06:17] Anne Morris: Tech is the case study: companies are shedding workers even amid good economic news, rationalizing layoffs as strategic pivots, especially toward AI. Leaders too often treat layoffs as routine cost-cutting, failing to acknowledge the human and cultural toll.

• Quote:

  “Layoffs have almost been normalized at this point as a way to deal with our economic anxiety.” — Anne Morris (07:14)

2. Why Leaders Mismanage Layoffs

Lack of Humility and Accountability

[07:26] Frances Frey: Companies rarely frame layoffs as leadership failures, instead spinning them as tough, necessary actions.

• Quote:

  “A layoff is on the other side of your failure... They’re not taking it personally enough. They’re almost doing it with... muscular energy... I’d like you to be humble enough to admit you’ve had a failure because it’s the only way you’re going to learn.” — Frances Frey (07:26)

Misreading Signals of Strength

[08:07] Anne Morris: Some leaders see layoffs as proof of strength—willingness to “inflict damage”—but this, too, is a deeply flawed reading.

3. The Real Costs of Layoffs

Research shows layoffs result in:

• Reduced innovation
• Lower engagement
• Attrition of top talent
• A hesitant, fearful workplace culture

Layoffs are a "blunt instrument," often rewarded in the short term by markets, but undermining long-term organizational health.

4. Framing Layoffs as Failure to Anticipate or Manage

[10:19] Frances Frey: Layoffs often signal failures to anticipate technological or market trends or to manage performance—contradictory for companies touting their AI foresight.

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Actionable Steps for Handling Layoffs with Care

Step 1: Own the Mistake—Start with an Apology

[13:31] Frances Frey: Leaders must own the decisions that led to layoffs, apologize sincerely, and specifically recognize the pain caused.

• Quote:

  “I would start with an apology... own what went wrong to lead us to this place and your role in it. The more sincere and more specific, the more likely you are to repair the relationships you have harmed.” — Frances Frey (13:31)

[14:11] Anne Morris: Specifically identify whether the mistake was overestimating demand or a failed strategy, making it “explicitly, unambiguously” clear.

Step 2: Present a Clear Plan for the Present and Future

[15:15] Anne Morris: After owning the past, leaders must present a transparent, actionable plan for surviving employees—including a new strategy and concrete changes beyond just layoffs.

• Quote:

  “What is the plan to not make this mistake going forward... Because now you have a smaller workforce looking at all its options for employment. So you gotta make the case for staying.” — Anne Morris (15:27)

[16:10] Frances Frey: All ambiguous information will be interpreted negatively; leaders must communicate frequently and clearly.

Step 3: Describe the Future with Rigor and Optimism

• Craft a compelling vision for the organization’s future, including specific, data-driven reasons to believe in it.
• Repeat this narrative consistently.
• Quote:

  “Tell us about the future in vivid and specific language... Give us a data-driven case for why we’re likely to get there—and repeat it over and over.” — Anne Morris (17:48)

Step 4: Support Ongoing Storytelling Within the Organization

[19:10] Frances Frey: Equip every level of the org to discuss and “own” the new narrative, so people can repeat it confidently to others.

• Quote:

  “Your job is to place a narrative in the minds of people that they can proudly and eagerly talk about in your absence.” — Frances Frey (19:10)

Step 5: Address the Emotional Journey & Normalize Discussion of Pain

[21:02] Anne Morris: Not just for leaders—middle managers play a vital role, as senior leadership often omits the necessary storytelling and support. Teams should “make the undiscussable discussable.”

• Quote:

  “Layoffs can be a third rail. One person will say to another, oh, don’t talk about it, our senior team doesn’t like to hear about it. That is not what the senior team should be looking for... Make sure it is metabolized through everyone so that we can overperform.” — Frances Frey (21:58)

[23:04] Frances Frey: Encourage “courage over competence”—even teams that aren’t “good” at discussing tough topics can outperform those who sweep issues under the rug.

Step 6: Redefine the Employee Value Proposition

[23:46] Anne Morris: Even if leaders can’t promise job security, they can have honest, “adult to adult” conversations about high risk/high reward and invest in experience and development.

• Quote:

  “You may not be able to guarantee there won’t be layoffs again... But if you stay and we figure this out together, we are building a future where you will have a place.” — Anne Morris (24:46)

• Compensation, experience, and education must rise in risky environments to compensate for loss of security.

Step 7: Leaders Must Take Care of Themselves, Too

[28:38] Anne Morris: It takes “an extraordinary amount of emotional energy” to support others—leaders should form support teams, share the load, and build “surge capacity” (Amy Cuddy): schedule breaks, rest, fuel, and emotional resets.

• Quote:

  “Being responsible for those human beings... takes an extraordinary amount of emotional energy. What do you personally need so you can show up for work the next day in a sturdy place?” — Anne Morris (28:38)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Move fast and break things is not the right approach here.” — Anne Morris (05:23)
• “The path to competitive excellence is not littered with layoff announcements.” — Anne Morris (09:49)
• “If I was competing against companies that were doing these layoffs, I’d be salivating.” — Frances Frey (17:28)
• “This is courage over competence.” — Frances Frey (23:04)
• “Layoffs can be a third rail... That is not what the senior team should be looking for in an organization. In fact, the opposite. Bring it up. Reward people for bringing it up.” — Frances Frey (21:58)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:51 – [Episode/Purpose Introduction]
• 06:17 – Layoff trends and tech industry context
• 07:14 – Normalization of layoffs & mismanagement
• 10:19 – Layoffs as failures: lack of anticipation, leadership gaps
• 13:06 – How to do layoffs well: Advice begins
• 13:31 – Step 1: Apologize & own the mistake
• 15:15 – Step 2: What’s the plan going forward?
• 16:41 – Step 3: Optimism about the future
• 19:10 – Step 4: Organizational storytelling & narrative-building
• 21:02 – Step 5: Discussing collective pain & making the undiscussable discussable
• 23:46 – Step 6: Redefining the employee value proposition
• 28:38 – Step 7: Self-care for leaders and managers

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Tone & Language

Frances and Anne are candid, empathetic, and at times gently irreverent (“I do love symmetry,” “Let’s give Elon some advice”). Their advice is research-driven but highly practical—calling out failures of humility and encouraging directness, optimism, and human-centered leadership. They urge listeners to resist corporate platitudes, to talk openly about pain at work, and to lead with courage in times of disruption.

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For further help with workplace dilemmas, Fixable invites listeners to call their hotline: 234-FIXABLE (234-349-2253).

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Transcript

[Elise Hu]

Hey, TED Talks Daily listeners. I'm Elise Hu. Today we have an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective, handpicked by us for you. It's unfortunately a part of the news cycle that doesn't seem to end mass layoffs. When an organization lays people off, those who remain are often scrambling to find their footing in an environment that no longer feels stable. Stable. So today we're sharing a 2025 episode from our show Fixable, where hosts Frances Frey and Anne Morris try to set the record straight about what layoffs mean for an organization and the responsibility leaders have to own what went wrong. Whatever you're dealing with at work, Fixable is there to help, offering actionable insights to create meaningful change in your life and workplace. Listen to Fixable wherever you get your podcasts, and if you have a problem you want fixed, call their hotline at 234 Fix. That's 234-349-2253 to leave Anne and Francis a voicemail with your workplace problem. Learn more about the TED Audio collective@audiocollective ted.com now on to the episode right after a quick break. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning D cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Planet Visionaries, a podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. If you've been feeling overwhelmed by climate headlines lately, here's something worth your time. A show focused on solutions. It's called Planet Visionaries, hosted by Alex Honnold. Yes, the climber from Free Solo, now turning his attention to protecting the only planet we've got. What makes this show stand out is the people you'll hear from scientists, explorers and storytellers who are actually building a better future and making it feel tangible, human and possible. One conversation features coral restoration leader Tituan Bernacote along with legendary oceanographer Sylvia Earle, sharing what it really takes to restore our oceans. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you're listening to this podcast. This episode is brought to you by Duck AI. AI can be incredibly useful, but sometimes it gives me pause to think that my chats might be saved somewhere forever. Between work stuff and embarrassing personal questions. A lot of us share more with AI chatbots than we realize. And information shouldn't come at the cost of your Privacy. That's why DuckDuckGo built Duck AI so you can chat privately with the same AIs you might already be using, like ChatGPT or Claude, and protect your data from hackers, scammers and data hungry companies. There's no account required, it's completely free. Plus it's from DuckDuckGo, known for protecting your data, not collecting it, so you can chat freely without worrying about your AI conversations getting stored or exploited. If you want to use AI without giving up your privacy, visit Duck AI Talk today. That's Duck AI Talk, a private way to chat with AI from DuckDuckGo, where AI is always optional and private.

[Anne Morris]

Welcome to Fixable from the TED Audio Collective. I'm your host, Anne Morris.

[Frances Frey]

And I'm your co host, Frances Fry.

[Anne Morris]

This week we're bringing you another edition of Unsolicited Advice where we give advice to people who didn't ask us for it.

[Frances Frey]

Well, who's our lucky recipient today?

[Anne Morris]

Well, Frances, today's unsolicited advice isn't totally unsolicited. We want to address a question we see so often in our show inbox, which is what to do after your company experiences a layoff. Today we want to talk to the people who have to pick up the pieces the next day. Senior leaders, managers, HR teams.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, we get this question all the time. All the time.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, we've coached a lot of leaders and organizations through this one. I also want to acknowledge that as we record this, there are whole public sector organizations and organizations that rely on government funding that are confronting large scale layoffs and disruption right now as the Trump administration works to reshape government. For those of you listening out there who are impacted and looking for work, we're thinking about you and the people who depend on you. We hope you'll listen to our episode from last season on job seekers and find something there that is helpful to you. The headline on our advice is to not do this alone. Your real enemy right now is isolation. So build a community to help you get through this difficult time. You're going to get to the other side. We promise. Absolutely.

[Frances Frey]

This kind of disruption to your life is a team sport.

[Anne Morris]

And Frances, in a future episode, we hope to give unsolicited advice to the architects of these decisions. Surprising to no one. Our point of view is that move fast and break things is not the right approach here.

[Frances Frey]

Does that mean we're going to give Elon advice?

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, we'd love to give Elon some advice and his boss and the Republican Party, because this is not just about one or two men at the top, which is how this story is being told. We gave advice to the Democratic Party last year, and it only seems fair to include our Republican friends as well.

[Frances Frey]

I do love symmetry.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, it's just balanced. Just go in for fair and balanced, Frances.

[Frances Frey]

I like it. I like it.

[Anne Morris]

In the meantime, today we're gonna talk to the people left holding the bag at any organization that's experiencing layoffs. We want to answer the question, where do you go from here?

[Frances Frey]

Let's get into it.

[Anne Morris]

All right, Francis, to put this conversation in context, if we look at tech as an illustrative example here, what seems to be happening is that after a spike in layoffs in the last few years, some companies are continuing to shed workers in 2025 and rethink exactly who they're going to need to compete in an AI world. As we record this, Meta just laid off about 5% of its workforce. Microsoft, Amazon, Salesforce, Google, they've all announced job cuts while still hiring for more specialized roles in AI and machine learning. I think a fair way to characterize the general mood is that even as the economic news is relatively good, at least here in the US Disruption and uncertainty in the business environment are still driving a fair amount of caution. And layoffs have almost been normalized at this point as a way to deal with our economic anxiety.

[Frances Frey]

You know, that normalization, I find that it really underestimates the consequences of repeated layoffs.

[Anne Morris]

So what do you think companies are getting wrong about this calculus?

[Frances Frey]

Anytime a company has a layoff, they should do a deep dive and have the humility to understand, where did I go wrong? Because for sure, a layoff is on the other side of you, senior executive. It's on the other side of your failure. So the first thing I think they're getting wrong is when they talk about it. They're not doing it with the humility and bit of shame around confessing a failure. They're not taking it personally enough. They're almost doing it with Leica jocular muscular energy. Like, look, we're tough enough to do this. I'd like you to be humble enough to admit you've had a failure because it's the only way you're going to learn from your failure.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And just to underline that because that's exactly where we're going next. I am sensing also the opposite in some organizations. Like, hey, look at this as a sign of strength. We're willing to inflict this kind of damage on people. I don't know if that's the kind of masculine energy some of these leaders are talking about, but I think they are deeply misreading this situation.

[Frances Frey]

Please. The role model of any energy is not failure dressed up as strength. Please, please, please.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, for sure. This step is not being framed as failure. And I want us to get into storytelling, maybe in a structured way. But I mean, just to state maybe what's obvious, layoffs can help you make progress on some problems. If you're making a strategic pivot, if you're evolving to a more specialized workforce, if you're looking for a financial lifeline for whatever reason, obviously this is a tool in the toolkit. Markets often will reward you, particularly in the short term, if they interpret this move as a sign of a leaner and meaner workforce. But the costs of this decision often get less attention. And I just want to pause on this before we can jump into what you do about it, because I think it's material to where we're going to go in this conversation. But if you look at the data and some of your colleagues really study this rigorously. Sandra Sucher. I'm thinking of. I know there are others, but if you pull the lens back and look at what happens next to companies, what you see is reduced innovation over time, lower team engagement, attrition of talented people, a culture of hesitation and fear that starts to kind of seep into the workforce unless you're deeply intentional about it. And so layoffs are this very blunt instrument with real collateral damage. And the path to competitive excellence is not littered with layoff announcements. And I feel like that is getting lost in this whole story right now.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. A layoff is a failure to anticipate market trends. It's a failure to anticipate technology trends. It's not lost on me that the companies that say they want us to believe in their abilities to use AI in the future weren't able to use it to help anticipate what was going on today. So that is, like, deeply troubling to me and incongruous. But it's also a failure to manage performance. Like, if there are all these people that could be managed out now, well, what the heck were you doing with your day job over the last year? Why was this not caught? So it's just showing a ineffective management it's failure to anticipate. It's that we weren't really doing our job that well. And it's that we take the collateral damage of humans that leave and the collateral damage of humans that stay. We take it too lightly. 100%. I'm really stuck on when we work with companies in crisis, when they've inflicted harm. The ones that are a successful turnaround, they really frame this the right way. And I have yet to see an organization recently frame this with any hope of making a positive move forward. But maybe that's the point of this episode. Maybe we can help if they want to.

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[Anne Morris]

Okay, so let's get into what doing this well looks like. And I'd like to position us as coaching well intentioned leaders who remain at these organizations and whose job it is is to bring this workforce that has just absorbed this pain, bring them along and into the future. So where do you start with that challenge?

[Frances Frey]

I would start with an apology.

[Anne Morris]

Some Own it, Some Own it Energy Own it Energy.

[Frances Frey]

It will be very difficult to listen to any of the words that come out of your mouth if you don't own it in the beginning and so own what went wrong to lead us to this place and your role in it. And the more sincere and the more specific the more likely you are to repair the relationships that you have undoubtedly harmed. And I'm talking about the relationships within the organization because you've destabilized them. You've injected trauma, particularly if you have made a habit of this over the last couple of years. So I would start with an apology.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, and I like the list of Mistakes that you started to articulate earlier. But if you have found yourself here, where you have hired human beings and then let them go. Right. And it's not for obvious performance reasons. Either you overconfidently predicted demand, which I think we saw that happen during COVID or the strategy that you assumed would work is not working. So one of the two things happened, and it's on you. And I love your advice to start with explicitly, unambiguously owning it. This I made a mistake and it was not free. Both for the good people leaving and the good people staying.

[Frances Frey]

Exactly right. And then my subtext is, an AI can help people. Use your own products. AI can help.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

I would expect that the organizations or the parts of organizations that have really digested AI would be able to anticipate these much better than the rest of us using the old fashioned whoops.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Well, I think that bridges to the second point, which is, okay, own your historic mistake. Now bring us into the present tense. What is the plan?

[Frances Frey]

Right.

[Anne Morris]

What is the plan to not make this mistake going forward. But what is the plan, period? Because now you have a smaller workforce looking at all of its options for employment. So you gotta make the case for staying and for really leaning in. So what's your plan? What's the update? What's the new strategy? What's the plan for better execution? What else besides letting people go is the company doing to position itself to win?

[Frances Frey]

And I think it's really important to do it in that kind of context because as our dear friend and colleague Tom DeLonge always advises, all ambiguous information just assume it's being interpreted negatively.

[Anne Morris]

So you have to fill in. I think about that bumper sticker all the time. All ambiguous and information is interpreted negatively. We have a negativity bias. So if you want us to think positively about something, you have to be crystal clear about it.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. And I think optimism is really essential here. But it's hard to get to optimism with ambiguous information. So I think after we've apologized, we got to get to work on convincing people that we've got this.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Own it. We've got this. Step two. And then I think the third step here is to describe the future in rigorous and optimistic terms. So give us a plan for the present tense and then tell us what the payoff is if we roll up our sleeves and help you build the next phase of this organization. For instance, I'm struck by the research that Gallup does every year, and I think the latest data I saw was that only 15% of US employees strongly agree that their organization's leadership makes them enthusiastic about the future. And in our experience, that number drops to single digits at best during a layoff.

[Frances Frey]

As you know, I'm not off a limb competitive. If I was competing against companies that were doing these layoffs, I'd be salivating because what do we have to do? We've got to explain what happened, own it, address the present moment and then give an amazing plan going forward.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Tell us about the future in vivid and specific language. Tell us what it's going to feel like when we get there. Give us a data driven case for why we're likely to get there and then repeat it over and over and over again. I mean, one of the things I'm struck by is, you know, there's a lot of behind the scenes energy that goes into preparing for a layoff. You know, companies think about it for a long time. They think about how to do it. They think about, okay, how are we going to compensate? Very deeply, well intentioned. They send the email, like the grim layoff email and they dispatch people to go and execute this. And then they breathe a sigh of relief thinking that their work is done. No, they've just begun that their like communications work is done and they're, they've only done the first step. There's this huge communication need now to tell us the plan. Right. And tell us what's going to happen when we get there. Because you have the whole rest of the workforce that you now have to bring along and get buy in from. And I feel like the investment in that part of the challenge is just painfully, painfully, painfully short of the challenge.

[Frances Frey]

If we were gonna bring this to advice to the people who are staying, realize that your job is to place a narrative in the minds of people that they can proudly and eagerly talk about in your absence.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

And so you have to give us the rigorous and optimistic way forward in a language and with enough repetition that it sticks so that I can talk about it to other people and that those people understand it as if you said it to them. So in many ways, even though the whole organization, including you, dear leaders, has gone through a trauma, it's up to you now to get your can do spirit. And what I wanna advise is you might be done with layoffs because you were planning it for a long time. And so you might be tempted to have an exasperated sigh or an exasperated,

[Anne Morris]

you're done thinking about, you're ready to move on.

[Frances Frey]

And you might be disappointed with others who aren't matching your cadence. You had months of a head start.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And so you've metabolized it. You've absorbed the shock of this. You've gotten yourself in the mindset to move forward. But the people around you are just beginning to move through those phases of metabolizing this information and their new reality.

[Frances Frey]

When we talk about the storytelling for bold change, and I think that's what this is, we summarize it with honor the past, create a clear and compelling change mandate that's here, and provide a rigorous and optimistic way forward. So if I was going to think about what's the summary advice from storytelling, Honor the past and rigor and optimism about the future. And I would make that as tight as possible.

[Anne Morris]

And to your point, if you're somewhere stuck in the middle of this hierarchy, if the pattern holds, your senior leaders probably have not thought deeply and rigorously about how from a storytelling and from a support standpoint, they're going to bring the rest of the workforce along. And so what can you do within the circle of influence that you totally control? It might only be with your direct reports to block out these narrative steps with people. We've seen it make a huge difference because part of that first step of the owning the past, owning the mistakes, owning where we are, owning the costs for everyone leaving and staying, you're also making that discussable. You're bringing it out of the shadows, the individual pain that people are experiencing in their offices. And you're saying, yeah, no, this is collective pain. We're going to name it, we're going to work through it and we're going to get to the other side together.

[Frances Frey]

And that's not a nice to have high performing teams as we know and as influenced by the great Chris Argyrous high performing teams. A very key characteristic they have compared to everyone else is that they have the courage to discuss the undiscussable. And layoffs can be a third rail. One person will say to another, oh, don't talk about it. Our senior team doesn't like to hear about it. That is not what the senior team should be looking for in an organization. In fact, the opposite. Bring it up. Reward people for bringing it up. Make sure that it is metabolized through everyone so that we can overperform. So this is not a grin and bear it moment.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. What I find so hopeful about ardurous research on this, and it really did fall out of a lifetime of work on identifying the variables that really explain high performing teams. And then here's the part that really excites me. They're not even that good at it. You don't even have to be good at it.

[Frances Frey]

You just need. This is courage over competence. Courage over competence.

[Anne Morris]

Sometimes, you know, I have this people pleasing side and so I will pause in the face of conflict sometimes and I have to like steel myself for it. And I go back to this again and again because his research doesn't conclude you're a UN level conflict negotiator. Discuss the undiscussable.

[Frances Frey]

But everybody else says stay clear.

[Anne Morris]

You know, this stuff is high stakes for you to touch. No, his point is really all of us need to get in there and find a way to make this stuff discussable so that we.

[Frances Frey]

Right.

[Anne Morris]

Size it and it's not to feel good.

[Frances Frey]

Right.

[Anne Morris]

This is a hard core variable that defines high performance.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

So now, Francis, I want to throw out a couple other things to think about if you're the one who has the ball in this complicated moment. One, I want to talk for a second about the employee value proposition. Because you may be in a situation where you can't offer stability or security. It may be a fast moving situation. You may not be able to guarantee that there won't be layoffs again. But I think there's an interesting question about what can you offer in those moments when I've seen people do this really well and it's an opportunity to have a clear adult to adult conversation with the people around you. That is roughly. I am not going to protect you from the truth here. I can't make any guarantees. But if you stay right and if we figure this out together, we are building a future where you will have a place. So this is a high risk, high reward situation. I'm not going to shield you from the risk part, but I want to have a very clear conversation about the reward.

[Frances Frey]

I love that because it's acknowledging we are in a risky environment. Then we would expect compensation to be different than if we're in a safe environment. We would expect that. My need to give you experiences and education to augment all of the rest of it. Also compensation, experiences, education, you gotta dial all of those way up to make up for what you have dialed way down, which is security 100%.

[Anne Morris]

And you may be in an environment where comp. Can't be on the list today, but

[Frances Frey]

then make sure it's experiences and education. Make sure you have really gone after the other one.

[Anne Morris]

Yes. And let's talk about compensation tomorrow.

[Frances Frey]

Oh yeah, good.

[Anne Morris]

When we hit it out of the fucking park because your employees are all thinking about it, so you not talking about it is not helping you in any way.

[Elise Hu]

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[Adam Grant]

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[Anne Morris]

For instance. There's another category I want to make sure we really hit, which is how to take care of yourself in an environment like this. Bringing a network of human beings through this. And we keep saying trauma, and I don't want to casually use that word, but it really is often experienced as trauma for the people staying being responsible for those human beings, absorbing this experience and getting them to the other side. It takes an extraordinary amount of emotional energy. What do you personally need so that you can show up for work the next day in a sturdy place? Being able to create an environment where the people around you can get back up and start to thrive again? It's a very personal question and it's not optional, it's not indulgent. It is in the best interest of you and it is the best interest of your employer to figure that out really quickly and to solve for it.

[Frances Frey]

So two things come to mind. One is it's why we need a team so that no one of us is on 24 7. Right. The great research by Leslie Perlow showed us that teams that share the 247 burden outperform teams where everyone is on 24. 7. So let's share the 24 7. That's the first thing. The second thing is what we know from the trauma ward, and I do think it's the right word, so they have shorter shifts. And so you can do it, but understand that it's like you're metabolizing food and energy and stress at a very different rate. And so you gotta go off camera, you gotta go take timeouts at a much higher clip. If it were you, Anne Morris, the amount of food you would have to consume, I mean, you eat how many times a day now? You would just be eating non food.

[Anne Morris]

I eat every three hours and it would go down to 90 minutes for sure. And it has when I've been in this situation of having to lead people through layoffs. Amy Cuddy calls this surge capacity when she talks about this challenge. So how do you solve for your own surge capacity? And it requires deep intention and deep care of yourself in order for you to be of service to the human beings around you.

[Frances Frey]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Your participation helps us make great episodes like this one. So please keep reaching out if you want to figure out any questions about your workplace problems together. Send us a message email call text fixableed.com 234fixable that's 23434, 9225. We read and listen to every single message.

[Anne Morris]

Fixable is brought to you by the TED Audio Collective and Pushkin Industries. It's hosted by me, Anne Morris and me, Frances Frey. This episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Baloraso and Roxanne Hylash and our

[Frances Frey]

show was mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

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[Anne Morris]

my

[Adam Grant]

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[Anne Morris]

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[Adam Grant]

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