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Sunday Pick: Why your brain is an unreliable narrator (w/ Aparna Nancherla) | How to Be a Better Human
00:37:52
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
Did you know Tide has been upgraded.
- [00:02]
Aparna Nancherla
To provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it.
- [00:08]
Narrator/Announcer
Even in cold butter.
- [00:11]
Aparna Nancherla
Yep.
- [00:11]
Narrator/Announcer
Chocolate ice cream.
- [00:13]
Aparna Nancherla
Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered.
- [00:17]
Narrator/Announcer
You don't need to use warm water.
- [00:19]
Aparna Nancherla
Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight.
- [00:22]
Narrator/Announcer
Tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean.
- [00:27]
Aparna Nancherla
It'S gotta be tied.
- [00:29]
Chris Duffy
Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car. See so many cars. That's a clicktastic inventory. And check out the financing options payments to fit our budget. I mean, that's Clickonomics101 delivery to our door.
- [00:44]
Aparna Nancherla
Just a hop, skip and a click away. And bot no better feeling than when everything just clicks. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [01:02]
Narrator/Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Butcherbox. You know that moment when dinner time hits and you open the fridge to question marks? I've been there. That's why I am excited to receive my butcher box. No more last minute grocery store scrambles or trying to figure out what mystery meat has been sitting in my freezer. That's actually a true story. There's a lot of mystery meat in my freezer. For nearly a decade, Butcherbox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic free, hormone free and independently verified. It's a cleaner, more trustworthy version of what you'd find at the grocery store, delivered right to your door. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free steak in every box for a year plus $20 off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com TTD that's right, your choice of filet mignon or New York strip in every box for an entire year plus 20 off your first box and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com TTD don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. Hey, TED Talks Daily listeners. I'm Elise Hu. Today we have an episode of another podcast from the TED Audio Collective, handpicked by us for you. This time it's from how to Be a Better Human, hosted by comedian Chris Duffy. Imposter Syndrome is one of many therapy speak words that has gone mainstream the past few years. But what is it really? Aparna Nanchurla knows all about it. Aparna is a comedian and the author of Unreliable Me, Myself and Imposter Syndrome. Despite her success as a performer, she, like many of us, isn't immune to self doubt. She and Chris talk about the curious and often funny ways she's learned to deal with this, like creating a resume listing all her failures, or making up words at parties to gauge other people's reactions. And speaking of finding humorous ways to deal with life's many ups and downs, I just want to take a second to give my fellow TED podcaster some love. Chris Duffy has a new book that just came out called Humor Me How Laughing More can make you present, creative, connected, and happy. If you're interested in hearing more from Chris about his book and how he's learned to keep laughing through it all, mark your calendars for February 18th. That's when I'll be talking with him in front of a live TED audience for our first TED Talks Daily Book Club interview of 2026. To learn more on RSVP, visit go.ted.com membership and now on to Chris's conversation with Aparna.
- [03:52]
Chris Duffy
You're listening to how to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duff. Sometimes if I think too hard about this podcast, my head starts to spin. Like, who am I to host this show? Or to host any show for that matter? Why on earth would I think that people should listen to me ask questions about being a better human? And why would these successful, intelligent guests agree to an interview? It's easy to start feeling like this whole thing is a fraud and I'm about to be found out and kicked out and that I'll never work again. I want to say, but of course that's not the case. That's like, what would make sense to say here? But of course that's not the case. But if I'm being honest, I don't know that I really believe that's not the case. Sometimes I really wonder. I hope that these feelings of insecurity are wrong and inaccurate, but I can't say that I know for sure. And I think that almost all of us have those doubts sometimes where we question ourselves and feel like we're faking it. But for some people, those feelings can be constant, intense, and powerful. Impostor Syndrome Today's guest, Aparna Nancherla, writes about her own experiences with imposter syndrome and other mental health challenges in her book Unreliable Narrator, which comes out September 19th. Amy Poehler described Aparna's book as a deeply honest and funny look at how exhausting it can be to live a human life. And here's a clip from the audiobook, courtesy of Penguin Random House Audio.
- [05:12]
Aparna Nancherla
I wanted to write a book about imposter syndrome because it's an identity I've embraced without question my entire life. Like being a Leo, I'm right on the cusp. But it's the more fun, flamboyant one my pragmatic Virgo heart unenthusiastically understands. Or having brown eyes. I used to think they were black, you know, like a meerkat's, but there's no wiggle room on this one. As fun as a wiggle room sounds, my scammer identifying roots go way back. On my mother's telling, I was born with jaundice and suctioned out via vacuum. So I showed up unwillingly with a cone head and yellow eyes perfectly styled for my National Enquirer cover photo shoot. Even then, I arrived in the manner of someone who wants everybody else to understand. I wasn't thrilled about my whole deal either.
- [06:05]
Chris Duffy
We're going to have a lot more from Aparna. An undeniably successful amount of conversation in just a moment. But first, a few podcast ads.
- [06:14]
Aparna Nancherla
Foreign.
- [06:21]
Narrator/Announcer
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- [07:16]
Aparna Nancherla
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- [07:51]
Chris Duffy
And we are back on today's episode. We're talking about Imposter Syndrome With Aparna Nancherla.
- [07:57]
Aparna Nancherla
Hi there. I'm Aparna Neancherla. I'm a comedian and the author of Unreliable Me, Myself and Imposter Syndrome.
- [08:06]
Chris Duffy
Aberna, you wrote a book about imposter syndrome, but what is imposter syndrome?
- [08:12]
Aparna Nancherla
So imposter syndrome, as I learned in writing the book, the technical definition is the feeling that you are just a fraud or just undeserving of any success or things you've accomplished. And it's all due to kind of luck or chance and not any skill you possess. And you kind of this just persistent feeling that you're going to be found out by, you know, your peers or those around you for not having the capability that they think you do.
- [08:44]
Chris Duffy
And you talk about in the book how it's caused some like, very real issues and mental struggles for you. It's also a term that I think a lot of people use kind of very casually, like, oh, I have imposter syndrome. So why do you think that is?
- [09:01]
Aparna Nancherla
I mean, I think that goes along with kind of a lot of things like kind of therapy speak has become increasingly, for lack of a better word, gentrified in our culture in that they just have become more shorthand for, for a bigger, like umbrella things like if you're feeling sad, you're like, oh, I'm depressed today or something, you know, like it's just become a little diluted and I think. So imposter syndrome has kind of, I think, become an umbrella term for anything where you kind of feel out of place maybe, or like you don't fit in or people are undervaluing you. And I think it is targeted towards, you know, women and minorities. So in that sense maybe it's like a term that can cover a lot of feelings of maybe not quite knowing how you fit in.
- [09:52]
Chris Duffy
And you talk about in the book a joke that you love from the comedian Joshua Benowitz about how cool people have gentrified the word awkward so that like actual awkward people like him no longer have something to use because like they call things awkward that are not awkward at all.
- [10:08]
Aparna Nancherla
He put it like, beautifully. Because I do think these words get co opted and then, I mean, I think it's very much a good thing that certain terms get pulled into the mainstream in terms of just being able to have, you know, more open conversations about mental illness and feelings that are typically associated with like shame or things we don't want to air in public. But yeah, I do think the other, the flip side of that is just once you bring Something into like a broader spectrum, then the term itself becomes a little bit distorted from the original meaning. Like it, like now if you say imposter syndrome, it might not always mean the technical definition when people are using it.
- [10:50]
Chris Duffy
I really love the book. I think it's so good. You walk a kind of a really difficult line in the book, which is you write about some really serious stuff and you talk about it without undercutting its seriousness. But then you also have moments of pure silliness and you talk about the kind of meta ness of writing a book about feeling like you're an imposter, which is a thing that is a role that normally an expert would do, right, to like write it in. And so in some ways you're like, of course you are an expert in this and you have so many things to say. But there's these feelings that get brought up by the very nature of writing a book about it that make you feel that imposter syndrome or Achilles. And you talk about that in the book.
- [11:32]
Aparna Nancherla
I like my full time job as a comedian and like not taking things seriously or framing things in a sillier or more absurd way. But then I also have an undergrad psych major and I think I do have like a very layman's background in, in doing a little bit of research and like reading an article and letting that inform me. So I think I, I really leaned into any, you know, tiny background I have in the like scientific inquiry process and was like, I'm gonna figure this out.
- [12:09]
Chris Duffy
So when you think about like the way that imposter syndrome intersects with your life and your work as a standup, you talk about in the book a lot of different places and one of them is how you look and your sense about your appearance and fitting in. And you write about how you haven't really felt like you conformed. You used to have a joke that you used to start sets with that was something along the lines of like, I know, I'm also surprised that I'm a comedian.
- [12:33]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is just the, you know, luck or privilege of having gotten to do this as a career and kind of made a little bit more of a name for myself. But then I think on the other hand, I was just like, I don't. I'm a little bit also doing myself a disservice by being like, yeah, I also am like, what the heck am I doing here? You know, like, it is a way of kind of front and center airing your imposter syndrome out Loud. But then I was like, am I, in a way, kind of setting the audience up to be like, prove yourself in a way that I don't need to be.
- [13:17]
Chris Duffy
It's a joke that worked for you with audiences. Worked in the sense that they laughed.
- [13:22]
Aparna Nancherla
Yes.
- [13:22]
Chris Duffy
But that, like, if I was to walk out on stage and say that joke, it wouldn't have worked because I think people wouldn't have been like. They would have been like, why are we surprised that you're a comedian? You look exactly like 900% of comedians. Like, that's not the thing. And so is interesting to think in. In the chapter about your appearance, how you'd felt like you didn't conform to people's ideas, which often were, like, straight, heterosexual, white.
- [13:49]
Aparna Nancherla
It did feel like a joke about external identity and stuff that, you know, you would know immediately upon physically seeing me. But they're also. I think there's also something about my personality or how I present in terms of, like, you know, not. Not being, like, this loud, like, boisterous maybe, certain type of comedian energy that I was also kind of commenting on in saying that. So I. I have thought in the past, like, oh, I wonder if I was like, my identity. But, you know, maybe a more extroverted, like, gregarious, bubbly kind of person. Would that joke have worked as well? Like, sometimes I think it's like, yeah, more than just the external factors, too.
- [14:30]
Chris Duffy
Have you come up with some new way of explaining that sense of, like, maybe I don't always feel like I'm supposed to be here, but that feels more cohesive to who you are as a whole?
- [14:41]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I mean, I have a joke I do now where I'm like. A lot of comedians like to break the fourth wall, where they kind of, like, really get with the audience. And I kind of pre establish that I'm, like, pretty uncomfortable with the audience. Leading up to the joke, I say, which is like, I'm actually working on breaking the fifth wall, which. Which is just that I abruptly stop talking and go home. So, like, I, like. I sort of frame that. I'm like, yeah, I have a lot of, you know, ambivalence about being here too. And in that way, like, commenting not only on, like, if they feel weird that I'm a comedian, but I'm like. I also am like, what is this? Like, this is so weird in a way that's more, yeah, personal to me.
- [15:27]
Chris Duffy
So if someone's listening and they're not a comedian, but they are dealing with these feelings of, like, being a fraud, and really struggling with like the sense of belonging. What are some things that you found in your research or in your own life that they can do to help themselves to deal with imposter syndrome?
- [15:43]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I mean, I think one big thing for me is just like talking about it with other people. Like, I know that's probably well trod advice in a lot of areas, but I do think with a lot of feelings around imposter syndrome, whether that's shame or like doubting yourself like it is, you kind of can create a vacuum where you're just like so convinced of your own incompetence, you just start like seeking evidence of it and it becomes a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. So I think the more you can get out of your head and like talk to other people and realize that a lot of people are either experiencing the same feelings or don't feel that way about you, you, it can be really helpful, like reminders or just reframing of your own perspective. And you know, therapy is always a great thing. I also think now imposter syndrome has been like, there's been more pushback against it. I think the term has proliferated in terms of just its usage and the way it's marketed as like some like the newest thing you can like fix about yourself. And, and I do think some of it maybe is more just like an institution not doing enough to support who's there and people who might not conform to who's been there in the past. So also remembering it might not just be an individual level problem at all is really important in terms of more systemic change.
- [17:15]
Chris Duffy
You talk in the book, you have this moment where you're talking about being on a panel show basically where you're just chatting, you're not actually doing stand up and you mention struggling with imposter syndrome. And then one of the hosts of the show just kind of lists off all of the reasons why you are a successful performer and comedian and that it kind of blows your mind in a way.
- [17:39]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I mean, I would say the experience in the moment was horrifying. Like if someone just like reads your resume out loud during an interview, it is kind of excruciating though. I'm sure there is like a personality type out there that would love that, but not me. But yeah, I think it was like if you are having like an actual debate with someone about your, you know, is a partner an imposter or not, and then they, their side presents like, well, you've done this and this and this and this. It is. Like, it does feel like my brain's rebuttal would be like, yeah, but she still sucks, you know, like. Like, it doesn't. It's quite. Not as strong an argument, like, out outside sometimes as it is in the confines of your brain.
- [18:28]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. I think about this a lot in the sense that even though I know it, it's hard to believe it that it's so easy to see other people more accurately than it is to see myself. Like, when I see a friend, I'm like, the fact that you got rejected from one thing, that doesn't mean anything. You're going to be successful. And then when it's me, I'm like, they finally found me out. All the rejections from here on out, there never will be another acceptance. And like, that feels real internally. Even though I know when I talk to a friend who's going through that, I'm like, of course that's not what that means.
- [18:59]
Aparna Nancherla
I think it's just because the way we relate to ourselves is so intuitive and, like, instinctive that we never think that, like, you know, some impulse we have on how we read ourselves could ever be, like, incorrect or distorted because we're like, but it feels so real. Or it feels like, beyond the intellectual, like, rational side of things.
- [19:25]
Chris Duffy
You also talk in the book about this idea of a failure resume.
- [19:29]
Aparna Nancherla
Yes.
- [19:29]
Chris Duffy
And you write one. Can you explain that?
- [19:32]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, So I did this failure resume. I actually had this idea. I was like, what if I just make a resume of all the ways that I've failed, but kind of like, brag about in the way a resume does? But then I looked it up on the Internet and of course, someone had already done it before in the. With everything. But it was like, in more in the academic sphere, like, someone had written a CV of, like, you know, all the research grants they didn't get and all the. Yeah. All their failures as a scientist. And so I was like, well, I guess I'm in a different field. I can do it and it will be different enough. And the funny thing is, I cite the person who had done it previously in the science world. And then I listened to a podcast recently and someone cited the failure CV and it was someone else who did it. So I feel like it just that there is, like, become now a meta level of, like, everyone kind of doing this failure cv, but then maybe not crediting other people for it, which it just creates a whole nother level of failure.
- [20:37]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. To have failed at doing it. I failed at doing the failure CV properly. Is a really great way to start your failure CV or failure resume.
- [20:45]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah. But then it's funny because with the person, I guess, who originally did it, who I didn't even know about, they said it was, like, of all the things they had done in their career, that was the thing that got the most traction. Which was just, like, a funny thing to realize that people. Because in writing the book, I did a bunch of research on failure and how it impacts us and how we internalize it. And it is, you know, when we fail, it is so threatening to our ego that we do kind of shut down, and it does kind of impact our performance. But if we hear about other people's failures or, like, learn from their mistakes, we actually take in quite a lot, and it, like, helps us quite a bit. So it's almost like an act of altruism to share your failures because you're, like, helping other people, maybe even more than yourself.
- [21:41]
Chris Duffy
So is that why you did the failure CV for yourself?
- [21:44]
Aparna Nancherla
I did it for myself because I also was just like, I. I think there are some rejections I've had in the past that I really, like, felt like they really stuck with me in terms of, like, oh, this really proves that you don't belong. And I was like, what if I just tell everyone about them? Like, I don't know if that'll make them less triggering to me, but at least then they won't be secret. So I think that's kind of where the seeds started. Once I wrote them down, I was kind of like, oh, yeah, who cares?
- [22:17]
Chris Duffy
One of the interesting parts of a failure resume to me is that when I started to even think about what I would put down, I realized that the list was so kind of impossibly long.
- [22:27]
Aparna Nancherla
But.
- [22:28]
Chris Duffy
But that actually made me realize, like, oh, these things don't matter. Right. Like, like, you can get rejected a hundred times before you get one job.
- [22:37]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah. And I think the reason they stick with us is because we maybe in some cases are like, so convinced of, like, if I got this, like, my life would then go this way and I would be on this path. And I also try to remind myself when I have gotten the things that doesn't happen, like, I'm the same person with the same, like, doubts going into that job, and I'm, like, scared about it or scared again that they're gonna find out I don't deserve to be there. So it's like, I gu. As I've gotten older, I just remember that, like, getting the thing is not going to necessarily, like, fix everything. Or even be what you wanted in the first place.
- [23:18]
Chris Duffy
Something that I have found really changes goals for me and makes them feel more attainable is to focus on what's in my control rather than what is out of my control, which is often getting picked. Right? So like, if I say, like, I'm going to get a new job that's not actually totally in my control, but if I'm going to apply to a new job that actually is in my control. And so I've started at the beginning of the year when if I make like a list of goals for the year, I almost always include rejections. So like on my list right now for me personally is like, I'm going to get 10 big rejections from places where that publish articles. Like, I'm going to submit articles to big places and they're gonna reject me. But if I get 10 rejections, that'll mean that I at least tried 10 times.
- [24:07]
Aparna Nancherla
Right. If I ever get my act together enough to make a list of goals, I'm gonna do that.
- [24:14]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. Well, your first one can be your first goal could be fail at making a list of goals, and then you could check that one off.
- [24:19]
Aparna Nancherla
But that's so smart because it's true. There's like, there are definitely going to be rejections. So to kind of even anticipate them is so smart.
- [24:28]
Chris Duffy
I have the feeling of like, if someone wasn't a fraud, they would be getting approached all the time. They wouldn't have to reach out. People would say, like, will you do this exciting thing? Whereas I'm like begging, will you please let me do this thing? Like, will you let me write for you? Will you let me perform on your show? Will you let me do these things? And the narrative I have in my head, which I know is not true, is that that is the sign that you're a fraud, that if you were real, they would just ask you, you wouldn't have to ask them. And so if I flip it around and I'm like, well, I'm going to just embrace that a little bit and I'm just going to get rejected from the things non fraud would. Would have gotten offered.
- [25:02]
Aparna Nancherla
Ah, got it. Yeah. And I think sometimes societally there we are so enraptured by the idea of like success after success or just the person who just keeps winning or. And I think it does create this idea that there's some people that are just like chosen, you know, like they're undeniable or they like worked harder than the next person. And I don't I think there is so much randomness and chance that's always involved and that we don't fully acknowledge the myth of the kind of like they did it all themselves or like they pushed a little harder than the next person. Like, we just I think love that idea, especially as Americans, and I think it just doesn't account for what it is to actually like live a human life.
- [25:53]
Chris Duffy
We're going to take a quick ad break here because that is how we live the podcast life. But we will be right back after this with more from a part know.
- [26:11]
Aparna Nancherla
Hi, I'm Darina, co founder of Quo. You might know us as OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up he always kept his ringtone super loud so he'd never miss a customer call. That stuck with me. When we started quo, our mission was.
- [26:25]
Narrator/Announcer
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Aparna Nancherla
Touch with, but make every customer feel.
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Narrator/Announcer
Valued no matter when they might call.
- [26:32]
Aparna Nancherla
Quo gives your team business phone numbers to call and text on your phone or computer.
- [26:37]
Narrator/Announcer
Your calls, messages and contacts live in.
- [26:40]
Aparna Nancherla
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- [26:42]
Narrator/Announcer
Fully aligned and reply faster.
- [26:45]
Aparna Nancherla
And with our AI agent answering 24.
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Narrator/Announcer
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- [26:51]
Aparna Nancherla
Over 90,000 businesses use quo. Get 20% off@quo.com tech.
- [26:57]
Narrator/Announcer
That's quo.com tech and we can port.
- [27:01]
Aparna Nancherla
Your existing numbers over for free. Quo no missed calls, no missed customers.
- [27:07]
Chris Duffy
Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car. See so many cars. That's a clicktastic inventory. And check out the financing options payments to fit our budget. I mean, that's Clickonomics 101 delivery to our door.
- [27:22]
Aparna Nancherla
Just a hopper skip and a click away. And no better feeling than when everything just clicks. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [27:37]
Chris Duffy
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- [27:41]
Narrator/Announcer
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- [27:43]
Chris Duffy
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- [27:45]
Narrator/Announcer
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- [27:47]
Chris Duffy
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- [28:12]
Aparna Nancherla
Fast forward four decades and on the heels of moderate success as a comedian, I still only warily accept I've accomplished anything or that I ever could. Again, I'm relieved. I don't consider my continual breathing itself a fluke. Eh, my lungs got lucky. There was an extra opening for oxygen intake. I'm aware that my self image is distorted, but does it matter if I fully buy into it? Hello, fringe religions and small batch cults. Sometimes it's almost like my imposter syndrome is the majority of me and the rest is my shadow.
- [28:47]
Chris Duffy
That was a clip from Aparna Nancherla's audiobook, Unreliable Narrator. And as she discusses a lot in the book, even though Aparna has had a ton of documented career success, it doesn't always feel like that internally. So, Aparna, something that I've always really admired about you is that rather than waiting for gatekeepers or to be selected as the featured comic at a club or something like that, you've built this career on your own terms, often outside of the traditional stand up comedy world, right, by using the Internet or by performing in places that aren't comedy clubs. And I think that's really wonderful that you've like blazed your own trail.
- [29:24]
Aparna Nancherla
You know, I didn't quite feel like I fit what they wanted or were looking for. So I think I tended to, when I was coming up, you know, lean towards spaces that were kind of outside of that model. And I think I was lucky in that, you know, the Internet kind of exploded as my comedy career progressed. And you know, there were all these platforms where you could put up content. And I feel like I benefited from like early days of Twitter where I could like put a bunch of my jokes online and, and be, you know, noticed that way. And so I do think as I chose these sort of alternate venues, there became more opportunities. So I again got a little lucky in that sense. But I decided like, that model wasn't going to work for me or I just didn't really understand the terms and how I could conform to them. So I was like, well, I guess I'll just do it a little differently and see what happens.
- [30:26]
Chris Duffy
Well, I think that the reason I bring it up is because it feels connected to imposter syndrome. Because it's like, if you're listening, whatever your version of the comedy club is, right? Like, maybe it's like, oh, I'm supposed to go to this specific type of academic institution or I'm supposed to work at this prestigious company, or I'm supposed to have this type of house or this type of partner, you know, whatever the box is that you're supposed to fit in. There's this sense where if the, if you don't fit into that box or that box isn't working for you or you can't get in for any Reason that then, like, well, there's no way to have success. And so how do you, in that moment, be like, I'm gonna just kind of do my own thing and it's gonna be okay? Like, what do you tell yourself?
- [31:11]
Aparna Nancherla
I realized for me, like, certain comedy show environments, like, certain types of clubs and stuff, they just, like, made me feel bad more than good. Like, I think you have to, at some point, just be able to take those risks and be okay with knowing that it might, you know, in the short term or maybe even, like, in the foreseeable future. Not necessarily be, like, assured, great decision or, like, the right decision, but know that it kind of fits what your intuition is telling you.
- [31:47]
Chris Duffy
Well, I feel compelled to do this because we're talking about imposter syndrome, and you wrote a book about imposter syndrome to just tell you that you're doing a really great job right now, and this is a great interview, and you are giving the advice that a wise and established expert would give, which is who you are. So if you're not feeling that it is actually true and happening from the outside, just so you know, internally.
- [32:07]
Aparna Nancherla
Oh, no.
- [32:10]
Chris Duffy
The oh, no. That's not what you wanted to hear, huh?
- [32:15]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I'm so bad. I'm still, like, practicing as a human, like, learning to take a compliment or be, like, praised in sort of any kind of public format. I'm just like, well, okay, I guess you can say that. Like, but no, thank you. That's very nice.
- [32:33]
Chris Duffy
It'd be hilarious if you just ended this interview. Now you're like, that's it. I'm out. Walk out of the interview.
- [32:38]
Aparna Nancherla
The, like, interviewee walks out due to excessive praise.
- [32:42]
Chris Duffy
Yeah, Was offended by being complimented, walked out. This interview's over. You can't treat me like that. So there's some really serious parts of your book, obviously, but there's also some really funny parts where you talk about, like, ways that you've dealt with the idea of imposter syndrome, and, like, the feeling that you're the only one who is making it up and is faking your way through it. And one that made me laugh a lot is you play a party game where when you're at a party, you try and drop a word that you made up and see if anyone will even say anything about it.
- [33:14]
Aparna Nancherla
I haven't done this as of recent as much, but sometimes I'll just, like, slip in a word that I kind of made up that it's not like, it can't sound too silly, but it, you know, it Sounds like sat word adjacent or something. And. And then I just see if anyone kind of, like, asks, like, oh, what does that mean? Or. Or is that a word? Or. And, you know, no one ever challenges it. I think they're either, like, afraid to seem dumb or. Yeah, they're like, oh, I guess everyone else knows what this word means, so I'm not gonna say anything. And I've. I've been that person, you know, on the other side of things, where everyone's, like, talking about a movie I haven't seen, and I just am like, oh, yeah, that movie's great, you know, and fully don't know what anyone is talking about. So I think it is a little. Just the micro social experiment of how we all are just trying to, like, keep up with everyone else.
- [34:08]
Chris Duffy
Can you help us generate a few right now so that, you know, people, if they're struggling to come up with their own word, like, what are some good fake words that sound real that people can just, like, toss into conversation there?
- [34:19]
Aparna Nancherla
I think the one in the book is furnitious.
- [34:21]
Chris Duffy
Furnitious, yes. It's a very fornicious exercise. And furnitious is great.
- [34:25]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah. It can't be, like, too silly, because, like, if I try to think of one right now, they're gonna be, like, too silly. Like, I was thinking of, like, bratticide.
- [34:34]
Chris Duffy
Yeah, that feels like it. Actually. I believe 100% that is the real act of killing a brat. Yeah, I was thinking of, like, plungent.
- [34:41]
Aparna Nancherla
Oh, plungent's great. There's also words that are just created all the time by the media, you know, with. Or, like, slacktivism or, like, there's always words being generated by the Internet, like, every second. So you're just like, maybe people are also now just like, oh, that's probably a word. I just didn't read the latest, like, you know, Twitter storm or whatever it is. Yeah.
- [35:05]
Chris Duffy
A way that this comes up for me a lot is I've read a word, but I've never heard it said out loud. And then I'm like, oh, maybe that's the thing. Like, I remember being 100% sure, thousand percent sure that M A C a B R E was pronounced macabre. And then I heard someone say macabre, and I was like, macabre. What is macabre?
- [35:27]
Aparna Nancherla
I remember I had a friend. Now I can't remember who it was, but she had always pronounced misled maize old.
- [35:39]
Chris Duffy
That's really good.
- [35:40]
Aparna Nancherla
I don't know why I was like, what? Like, how could you? And she was just like, I don't know. That's how I read it.
- [35:47]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. I knew someone from my high school who was like, if not the top of the class, extremely close to the top of the class, very well read. And he was positive that the word primadonna was P R E Madonna. And he thought it was like, it meant, like, you're a big diva because it's like, before Madonna. Like, he had this whole explanation in his head for why it was like, oh, yeah, she's a pre Madonna. She's before Madonna. And then when he learned that it was not that, he was truly shocked.
- [36:16]
Aparna Nancherla
Wow. I kind of want that word to exist, though, as he imagined it. Like, it feels like a very incisive way to talk about pop history.
- [36:29]
Chris Duffy
Yeah. But, you know, it all goes back to this idea of, like, we're all in some ways trying to, like, look around and see, hey, does everyone else know what's going on here?
- [36:39]
Aparna Nancherla
Totally.
- [36:40]
Chris Duffy
Do I fit in? Have I been saying this thing wrong the whole time? Have I been acting wrong? Am I been, like, living my whole life wrong to pivot a little bit here and to talk about something significantly more serious? I think that, at least for me, when I first think about the concept of imposter syndrome, it mostly registers to me as being like, professional success or, like, I don't belong in this. But I think you make a really compelling case in the book that that sense of being a fraud or of not belonging or of, you know, having somehow faked your way, that it's not just professional. It can be about, you know, our body image. It can also be about illness. You know, you have a chapter where you talk about this sense of dealing with really acute mental illness, but also having this weird feeling of, like, oh, I'm not really a depressed person. Like, I don't deserve to use the title of having depression because this isn't how a quote unquote, depressed person would behave or this isn't how they would feel.
- [37:43]
Aparna Nancherla
The murky thing about, like, yeah, especially mental illness. It's like everyone. You know, there are things, like a constellation of terms that everyone might associate with, like, depression or anxiety or, like, bipolar disorder, like schizophrenia. But I. I do feel like everyone's experience of them on an individual level can still vary so much that it. It can be hard to. To know, like, if your kind of completely fits the model of, like, what it's supposed to look like. So I think the tricky thing, especially with having, like, a anxious, depressive brain, is you're already, like, prone to kind of doubting yourself or undervaluing yourself or thinking like your thoughts are maybe not as, you know, valid as compared to other people's. So then to then question your own mental illness kind of feels like, of course you would, but. But it is. Yeah. It is interesting to me that like the scales of depression in our society, it's like you have to kind of be the person who can't get out of bed to be considered like an actual depressed person. Whereas I feel like a lot of my depression has been me living a life, but just like having a really hard time internally for a lot of it.
- [39:06]
Chris Duffy
There's this interesting kind of paradox where you talk about like, on the one hand you have to trust your own emotions and your own thoughts, but on the other hand, when you are in a really bad mental space, you have to question those thoughts too. To be like, what my brain is telling me about myself isn't true. So you both have to like push back and believe. And that's gonna be a really difficult balance to strike.
- [39:32]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah. And I think especially with things like depression or anxiety, it's like you just as a human, your moods are gonna fluctuate. So it's like, even if you're a well balanced, like healthy person, you're gonna have days where you feel a little more down compared to, you know, another day where you're feeling a little more upbeat. Like sometimes when I, you know, have had my meds working and things are pretty stable and like I feel like I'm able to function pretty well, then if I suddenly have a day where I'm feeling down, I. Instead of just being like, oh, you're just having like a day where you're a little bit in the blues. Like I'm just like, oh my God, is the depression coming back? Like, it does make you question yourself sometimes a little more internally. And I think, yeah, that leads back to those self doubt feelings.
- [40:18]
Chris Duffy
What kind of progress have you made on your own imposter syndrome over the course of this book? And also just, you know, the years that you. Between when you started it and now.
- [40:28]
Aparna Nancherla
Yeah, I mean I, I wouldn't say it's gone or fixed, but I, I do think I've just come to understand it more as a part of myself rather than all of myself. And, and kind of, it has its own role of, of what it wants to play in terms of like, I think maybe keeping me small or like trying to make sure I stack up with everyone else is a very human, you know, desire to just like fit in and know what everyone else is doing. So I just try to remember that it is coming from like a healthier, self preserving place and then it just, you know, is a bit of a like control freak or like a micromanager in that it wants to take over everything and be like actually you don't know what you're doing and you should really go away or whatever it is. I try to remember it is a piece of me, but it sometimes has some ideas that maybe aren't great.
- [41:26]
Chris Duffy
I feel like the title of your book is the perfect summary of that. Right? It's An Unreliable Narrator.
- [41:30]
Aparna Nancherla
Yes. Yes.
- [41:31]
Chris Duffy
Well, I genuinely felt like this was such a helpful book and so funny and really meaningful and I know that people are going to really get a lot from it. So it's really, it's fantastic.
- [41:44]
Aparna Nancherla
Aw, thanks Chris.
- [41:45]
Chris Duffy
Well, Aparna, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this. It's been great talking to you.
- [41:50]
Aparna Nancherla
Thanks for having me. Thanks for reading the book.
- [41:56]
Chris Duffy
That is it for today's episode of how to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Aparna Nancherla. Her book Unreliable Narrator, Me, Myself and Imposter Syndrome is available for pre order now. Special thanks to Penguin Random House Audio for the clips from Aparna's audiobook. I am your host, Chris Duffy and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and upcoming live shows@chrisduffycomedy.com how to be a Better Human is brought to you on the TED side by Daniela Ballarezzo, Chloe Shashaw Brooks and Banban Chang. A team so impressive that even when I doubt myself, I never doubt them. Every episode of our show is professionally fact checked and you can trust that. That means today you had a fully reliable narrator. That is thanks to Julia Dickerson and Matthias Salas. On the PRX side. Our show is put together by a group of people so absurdly talented that I would actually completely believe it if you told me that they had been assembled solely for the purpose of pranking me. Because how else could you assemble a dream team this incredible Morgan Flannery, Nor Gibbs, Patrick Grant and Jocelyn Gonzalez. And of course, thanks to you for listening to our show and making this all possible. If you are listening on Apple, please leave us a five star rating and review. And if you're listening on the Spotify app, answer the discussion question that we've put up there. We would love to hear your thoughts. We will be back next week with even more how to Be a Better human. Thanks again for listening. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Why Choose a Sleep Number Smart Bed.
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Chris Duffy
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