The anti-CEO playbook | Hamdi Ulukaya (re-release)

Summary

Podcast Summary: TED Talks Daily

Episode: The anti-CEO playbook | Hamdi Ulukaya (re-release)
Date: April 9, 2026
Speaker: Hamdi Ulukaya, Founder of Chobani
Host: Elise Hu

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Overview

In this episode, Hamdi Ulukaya, founder of Chobani, shares his "Anti-CEO Playbook"—a radical vision for reshaping modern business. Through personal storytelling and thought-provoking insights, Ulukaya challenges the corporate status quo that puts profit and shareholders above people and communities. He urges leaders to throw out the old CEO playbook and instead embrace business practices grounded in gratitude, community, responsibility, and accountability. His journey reviving an abandoned yogurt factory becomes a case study for a more humane, impactful way to do business.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin Story — Buying the Forgotten Factory

[03:51–08:30]

• Hamdi recounts his journey from a small cheesemaker in upstate New York to discovering a flier for an “85-year-old yogurt plant for sale.”
• Describes the initial state of the abandoned factory: “The smell hit me first. It was like a milk container left out in the sun. The walls were so thick, paints were peeling, there were cracks everywhere.” (06:09)
• Instead of seeing an obsolete asset, Ulukaya recognizes the value in the people and community: “All I could see were the people. There were 55 of them, just quiet… their only job was to break the plant apart and close it forever.” (07:27)
• Personal connection to the workers and community, seeing not just business opportunity but the lives and heritage built around the factory.

2. Challenging the Traditional CEO Playbook

[08:45–11:45]

• Ulukaya critiques the corporate mindset focused solely on profit and shareholders:

  “Spreadsheets are lazy. They don’t tell you about people. They don’t tell you about communities. But unfortunately, this is how too many business decisions are made today.” (08:56)

• He recalls anger at faceless decision-makers closing local businesses without engaging with employees or communities.
• He calls for abandoning the “playbook that guided businesses and CEOs for the last 40 years,” emphasizing it’s “broken” and does not result in “noble leaders.” (11:00)

3. The Principles of the Anti-CEO Playbook

a. Gratitude: Putting Employees First

[12:00–13:45]

• Argues the primary duty of a company should be to its workers, not its profits:

  “Today's business book says business exists to maximize profit for the shareholders. I think that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life. In reality, business should take care of their employees first.” (12:17)

• Describes giving shares to all 2,000 employees:

  “Some people said it's PR. Some said, it's a gift. I said, it's not a gift… they earned it with their talent and with their hard work.” (12:46)

• Reframes “return on investment” as “return on kindness.” (20:30)

b. Community: Revitalizing Places, Not Asking for Handouts

[13:50–16:02]

• Critiques companies seeking tax breaks; instead, advises investing where it’s needed:

  “Businesses should go to the struggling communities and ask, how can I help you?” (14:01)

• Gives example of building a new plant in rural Idaho, collaborating with locals and creating jobs:

  “I said, I want to build it right here… we partnered with the local community college… and today our factory is one of the largest yogurt plants in the world.” (15:10)

c. Responsibility: Business Must Take a Side

[16:08–17:38]

• Contradicts the idea that businesses must stay apolitical:

  “The reality is businesses as citizens must take a side… in gun violence, in climate change, in income inequality, in refugees, in race. It's business must take a side.” (16:50)

• Shares the story of hiring refugees in Upstate New York, providing transport and translators, leading to a workforce that is 30% immigrants and refugees:

  “Today one of America's rural areas, 30% of Chobani workforce are immigrants and refugees. And it changed us for better.” (17:14)

d. Accountability: CEOs Report to Consumers

[17:44–19:08]

• Shifts the accountability from corporate boards to the end user:

  “Today's playbook says the CEO reports to the boards, corporate boards, in my opinion, CEO reports to consumer.” (17:48)

• Personal anecdote:

  “In the first few years of Chobani, the 1,800 number on the cup was my personal number… I responded personally. Sometimes I made changes based on what I heard. Because consumer is in power.” (18:00)

• Empowers consumers:

  “If you don't like the brand and the companies, what they are doing with their business, you can throw them into the garbage can. And if you see the ones that are doing it right, you can reward them.” (18:41)

4. The Results & The Call to Action

[19:12–20:50]

• The original Chobani team rebuilt the business and rejuvenated the whole town, proving the Anti-CEO Playbook works.
• Describes the importance of dignity, character, and human spirit in business.

  “The treasure that I found in that factory—dignity of work, strike of character, human spirit. What we need to unleash all across the world…” (19:45)

• Closing metaphor:

  “This is not the time to build walls. This is a time to start painting the walls. I leave the colors all up to you. Thank you so much.” (20:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On traditional business values:

  “Mainstream business says about money. The CEO playbook says it’s about shareholders. And there’s so much sacrifice for it… but not by CEOs. CEOs have their employees suffer for them, but yet the CEOs pay up goes up and up and up. And so many people are left behind.” (09:57)

• On taking a new approach:

  “We need a new playbook that sees people again, that sees above and beyond profits.” (11:09)

• On the power of people:

  “The best part of Chobani for me is the same exact people who were given up on were the ones built it back 100 times better than before. And they all have a financial stake in the company today.” (10:58)

• On consumers’ power:

  “If you don't like the brand and the companies, what they are doing with their business, you can throw them into the garbage can. And if you see the ones that are doing it right, you can reward them.” (18:41)

• On changing the world through business:

  “This is the difference between return on investment and return on kindness. This is the difference between profit and true wealth.” (20:30)

• On hope and possibility:

  “If it can happen in upstate New York, in a small town, upstate New York and Idaho, it can happen in every city and town and village across the world.” (20:39)

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Key Timestamps

• [03:51] – Hamdi’s origin story: discovering the factory
• [08:45] – Critique of spreadsheets and corporate decision-making
• [12:00] – Giving shares to employees; redefining business gratitude
• [13:50] – Community-centric business, Chobani’s Idaho story
• [16:08] – Business as a force for social responsibility; the refugee hiring initiative
• [17:44] – Accountability: CEO should answer to consumers
• [19:12] – The impact: revitalized communities and business as a force for good
• [20:40] – Memorable closing: “This is not the time to build walls. This is a time to start painting the walls.”

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Tone and Style

Hamdi Ulukaya’s delivery is earnest, humble, and impassioned. He speaks from experience and personal conviction, opting for simple language, evocative stories, and direct calls-to-action, making the business case for empathy and responsibility both practical and inspiring.

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Conclusion

Hamdi Ulukaya’s “Anti-CEO Playbook” is both a critique of current business orthodoxy and a roadmap for change. By centering people, community, social responsibility, and consumer accountability, Ulukaya demonstrates how business can be a force for true wealth—a wealth defined not only by profits, but by dignity, revival, and kindness. The episode stands as a call to leaders and consumers alike: “This is not the time to build walls. This is a time to start painting the walls.”

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas and conversations to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host Elise Hu. Profit, Money Shareholders. These are the priorities of most companies, but at what cost? In today's talk, which was Originally posted in 2019, humanitarian yogurt maker and Chobani founder Hamdi Yulukaya makes an appeal to corporate leaders worldwide about a new way to do business.

[B]

Today, the businesses that have it all ask for communities. What kind of tax breaks and incentives you can give me? The reality is businesses should go to the struggling communities and ask, how can I help you?

[A]

Hamdi calls for an end to the business playbook of the past and shares his vision for a new anti CEO playbook that prioritizes people and communities over profits.

[B]

This is the difference between return and on investment and return on kindness. This is the difference between profit and true wealth.

[A]

That's coming up after a short break. Today's episode is sponsored by Nerd Wallet's Smart Money Podcast. Navigating your finances can be stressful and sometimes you just need some advice from someone you can trust. Imagine if you could have that one money savvy friend on demand for the moments when you just need a little guidance before making a big decision. NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast can be like that, friend. Their team of trusted journalists breaks down financial decisions to give you research backed insights and clear pros and cons. Whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth, they explain the why behind tricky decisions like investing, home buying and choosing the best credit cards, all while keeping it engaging and humorous. This podcast cuts through the jargon and misinformation that's so often wrapped up with financial advice. To get to the clear research backed answers you're looking for, make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast on your favorite podcast app. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Planet Visionaries, a podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. If you've been feeling overwhelmed by climate headlines lately. Here's something worth your time. A show focused on solutions. It's called Planet Visionaries, hosted by Alex Honnold. Yes, the climber from Free Solo, who recently completed an impressive skyscraper climb in Taipei, now turning his attention to protecting the only planet we've got. What makes this show stand out is the people you'll hear from. Scientists, explorers and storytellers who are actually building a better future and making it feel tangible, human and possible. One conversation features coral restoration leader Tituan Bernacote along with legendary oceanographer Sylvia Earle, sharing what it really takes to restore our oceans. In partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever. You're listening to this podcast. And now our TED Talk of the Day.

[B]

A cold January day of 2005, I took one of my most important drive of my life. I was on this road in upstate New York trying to find this old factory. And day before I received a flyer in the mail and said, fully equipped yogurt plant for sale. I throw it in the garbage can and 20 minutes later I picked it up and called the number. Plant was 85 years old and it was closing, so I decided to go see it. At this time, I wasn't sure where this road or my life is going to. I own a small cheese shop, but really hated business. But the hills and the roads and the smells are all familiar. I grew up in Turkey in a similar environment, near the Kurdish mountains. My family made cheese and yogurt. I grew up listening to shepherd stories. We didn't have much, but we had the moon and the stars. Simple food, each other. Eventually I came to America. I didn't even know New York had farms. I made it to upstate and I never left. Now I'm lost. I passed the road sign said dead end. Then soon after, there it was, the factory. The smell hit me first. It was like a milk container left out in the sun. The walls were so thick, paints were peeling, there were cracks everywhere. The factory was so old, the owners thought it was worthless. I thought they left a zero off. I couldn't believe the price. As I entered in, I stopped noticing things. All I could see were the people. There were 55 of them, just quiet. Their only job was to break the plant apart and and close it forever. I was met with a guy named Rich, production manager. He offered to take me around, show me around. He didn't say much, but around every corner he would point out some stories. Rich worked there for 20 years. His father Made yogurt before him and his grandfather made cream cheese before that. You could tell that Rich felt guilty that this factory was closing on his watch. What hit me the hardest at that time, that this wasn't just an old factory. This was a time machine. This is where people built lives. They left for wars. They brag about home runs and record cards. But now it was closing. And the company wasn't just giving up on yogurt, it was giving up on them, as if they were not good enough. And I was shocked how these people were behaving. There was no anger, There was no tears. Just silence. With grace, they were closing this factory. I was so angry that the CEO, far away in a tower or somewhere, looking at the spreadsheets and closing the factory. Spreadsheets are lazy. They don't tell you about people. They don't tell you about communities. But unfortunately, this is how too many business decisions are made today. I was never the same person after what I saw. On my way back home, I called Mario, my lawyer. I called Mario. I said, mario, I want to buy this place. Mario said, hamdi, one of the largest food companies in the world is closing this place, and they're getting out of yogurt business. Who the hell are you to make it work? I said, you're right. But the next day, I called him again, and I said, mario, really, I really want to buy this place. He said, hamdi, you have no money. You haven't even paid me in six months. Which was true. But I got a loan, another loan. By August 2005, I had the keys for this factory. The first thing I did was to hire four of the original 55 people. I had Maria, office manager. I had Frank, the wastewater guy. I had Mike, the maintenance guy, and Rich, who showed me the plant production guy. And we had our first board meeting. Mike says, hamdi, what are we going to do now? So they look at me as if I have the magic answer. So I said, mike, we're going to go to ace hardware store and we're going to get some paints, and we're going to paint the walls outside. Mike wasn't impressed. He looked at me, he said, hamdit, that's fine. We'll do that. But tell me you have more ideas than that. I said, I do. We'll paint the walls white. Honest to God, that was the only ideas I had. But we painted those walls that summer. I sometimes wonder what they would have said to me if I told them, see these walls we are painting in two years. We're Going to launch a yogurt here that Americans never seen and never tasted before. It will be delicious, it will be natural. And we're going to call it Chobani. It means shepherd in Turk. And if I said we were going to hire all of the 55 employees back, or most of them back, and then hundred more after, and then 100 more after, and then thousands more after that. But if I told them, you see that town over there? Every person we hire, 10 more local jobs will be created. The town will come back to life. The trucks will be all over the roads. And the first money we make, we're going to build one of the best little league baseball field for our children. And five years after that, we're going to be the number one Greek yogurt brand in the country. Would they have believed me? Of course not. But that's exactly what happened. In painting those walls. We got to know each other. We believed in each other. And we figured it out together. Five years, me and all my colleagues, we never left the factory. We worked day and night through the holidays to fix that plant. The best part of Chobani for me is the same exact people who were giving up on were the ones built it back 100 times better than before. And they all have a financial stake in the company today. And all these times I kept wondering, see, I'm not a businessman. I don't come from that tradition. I just kept wondering, what is this all about? The corporate America says it's about profits. Mainstream business says about money. The CEO playbook says it's about shareholders. And there's so much sacrifice for it. It's factories, communities, jobs, but not by CEOs. CEOs have their employees suffer for them, but yet the CEOs pay up goes up and up and up. And so many people are left behind. I'm here to tell you no more. It's not right. It's never been right. It's time to admit that the playbook that guided businesses and CEOs for the last 40 years is broken. It tells you everything about business except how to be a noble leader. We need a new playbook. We need a new playbook that sees people again, that sees above and beyond profits. In the movies, they have a name for people who take a different path to do things right. They call them antiheroes. I think we need the same idea in business. We need anti CEOs and we need anti CEO playbook. So let me tell you about what this anti CEO playbook is all about. Anti CEO Playbook is about gratitude. Today's business book says business exists to maximize profit for the shareholders. I think that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life. In reality, business should take care of their employees first. You know, a few years ago when we announced that we're giving shares to all our 2,000 employees, some people said it's PR. Some said, it's a gift. I said, it's not a gift. I watched it, I've been part of it. They earned it with their talent and with their hard work. And I don't see any other way. The new way of business, it's your employees you take care of first, not the profits. The new anti CEO playbook is about community. Today, the businesses that have it all ask for communities. What kind of tax breaks and incentives you can give me. The reality is businesses should go to the struggling communities and ask, how can I help you? You know, when we wanted to build our second yogurt plant, Idaho was in nobody's radar screen. It was too rural, too far away, didn't have much incentives. So I went there, I met with the local people, I met with the farmers. We shook hands, we broke bread. I said, I want to build it right here. I don't need to see financial studies. And the result? This community is thriving. There's new schools that are opening every year, new food companies are coming up every year. And they told me, you're not going to find any trained workers here. I said, it's okay, we'll teach them. We partnered with the local community college and while we were building the plant, we trained hundreds of hundreds of people for advanced manufacturing. And today our factory is one of the largest yogurt plants in the world. The new way of business Communities. Go search for communities that you can be part of, ask for permission and be with them. Open the walls and succeed together. The anti CEO playbook is about responsibility. Today's playbook says the businesses should stay out of politics. The reality is businesses as citizens must take a side. When we were growing in New York and looking for more people to hire, I remembered in Utica, an hour away, there were refugees from Southeast Asia and Africa were looking for a place to work. They don't speak English, someone told me. I said, I don't really either. Let's get translators. They don't have transportations. I said, let's get buses. It's not a rocket science. Today, one of America's rural areas, 30% of Chobani workforce are immigrants and refugees. And it changed US for better the new way of business. It's business, not government is in the best position to make a change in today's world. In gun violence, in climate change, in income inequality, in refugees, in race. It's business must take a side. And lastly, anti CEO playbook is about accountability. Today's playbook says the CEO reports to the boards, corporate boards, in my opinion, CEO reports to consumer. In the first few years of Chobani, the 1, 800 number was in the cup was my personal number. When somebody called and wrote, I responded personally. Sometimes I made changes based on what I heard. Because consumer is in power. That's the reason the business exists. It's you. Every single one of you is in the power to make changes today. If you don't like the brand and the companies, what they are doing with their business, you can throw them into the garbage can. And if you see the ones that are doing it right, you can reward them. In the end, this is all in our responsibility. The new way of business, it's consumer we report to, not to the corporate boards. You see, if you are right with your people, if you're right with your community, if you're right with your product, you will be more profitable, you will be more innovative, you will have more passionate people working for you and the community that supports you. And that's what the anti CEO playbook is all about. The treasure that I found in that factory. Dignity of work, strike of character, human spirit. What we need to unleash all across the world, brothers and sisters, there are people and places all around the world are left out and left behind, but their spirit is still strong. They just want another chance. They want someone to give them a chance again. Not to just build it back, but build it better than before. And this is the difference between return on investment and return on kindness. This is the difference between profit and true wealth. And if it can happen in upstate New York, in a small town, upstate New York and Idaho, it can happen in every city and town and village across the world. This is not the time to build walls. This is a time to start painting the walls. I leave the colors all up to you. Thank you so much.

[A]

That was hamdi Yulukaya at TED 2019 and this talk was originally published in May of that year. If you're curious about Ted's curation, find out [e-mail] curation guidelines. And that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little and Tanzika Sangmarnivang. This episode was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balaurazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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