The brilliance of an economy that protects healthy forests | Ilona Szabó de Carvalho

Summary

---

Episode Summary: The Brilliance of an Economy That Protects Healthy Forests | Ilona Szabó de Carvalho

Podcast: TED Talks Daily
Date: August 18, 2025
Speaker: Ilona Szabó de Carvalho
Host: Elise Hu
Recorded at: TED Countdown Summit, Nairobi, Kenya

---

Overview

In this inspiring TED Talk, Brazilian civic entrepreneur Ilona Szabó de Carvalho presents a compelling vision: countries can reimagine economic success by prioritizing the preservation and restoration of healthy forests. Speaking from personal experience and national context, Szabó charts Brazil’s path toward becoming a "nature superpower"—a nation where nature's intrinsic value is enshrined at the core of policy, finance, and culture. The episode explores the immense opportunity in aligning economies with nature, the dangers of deforestation, innovative economic models, and the urgent need for global change.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nature as a Nation’s Core Asset (02:56-04:16)

• Redefining Superpower Status:
  Szabó begins by reframing what it means for Brazil to be a "superpower," shifting the focus from technology and renewable energy to fundamentally rethinking our relationship with nature.
• "Over half of global GDP depends on everything nature provides for free. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the stability of our climate."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [03:18]
• She stresses Brazil's natural wealth: home to the world's largest tropical forest, unparalleled river systems, and extraordinary biodiversity.

2. The Deforestation Crisis and Its Costs (04:18-06:04)

• Magnitude of Destruction:
  Over the past four decades, Brazil has cleared a land area larger than California, primarily due to illegal activities.
• Illicit Economies:
  "Over 90% of deforestation in Brazil is illegal. Trees cut down today are connected to illicit economies like land grabbing, wildlife trafficking, illegal gold mining, and dodgy agriculture and ranching practices."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [04:46]
• Global Consequences:
  Environmental crimes generate $280 billion in illicit profits annually and threaten the planet’s climate stability.
• Limits of Enforcement:
  Despite decades working to curb crime, Szabó acknowledges policing alone is not enough: "The Amazon alone is larger than the European Union. We can't police our way out of this problem."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [05:36]

3. Building a Nature-Aligned Economic Paradigm (06:05-07:41)

• Central Premise:
  To address the crisis, standing forests must be more valuable than cleared land—economically and socially.
• "We urgently need a new economic paradigm that recognizes the value of everything nature gives us: like forests, but also water, soil, minerals, and clean air."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [06:20]
• Not Just Wishful Thinking:
  Szabó highlights tangible progress, notably her own initiative, the Greenbridge Facility, which pioneers nature finance.

4. Steps Towards Becoming a Nature Superpower (07:42-11:46)

a. Make Nature Core to National Identity (07:47-08:21)

• Brazil integrates nature into policy at every level—national, regional, and international.
• 2023 saw Brazil launch an ambitious ecological transformation plan and investment platform.
• "Nature is being mainstreamed into national, regional, and global commitments and plans."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [07:56]

b. Build an Inclusive and Innovative Bioeconomy (08:22-09:44)

• Emerging Sectors:
  New supply chains in food, cosmetics, and textiles are rooted in nature-based practices, leveraging indigenous and local knowledge.
• Corporate Innovation:
  Natura, a global cosmetics leader, uses sustainable forest ingredients, empowers locals, and partners with tech-driven firms to improve supply chain transparency and yields.
• "They matched the largest inventory of forest ever undertaken in Brazil… in six months, a task they say would normally take 25 years."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [09:12]

c. Create a Sector Focused on Nature Restoration (09:45-10:33)

• To honor the Paris Agreement, Brazil targets zero deforestation by 2030 and restoration of 12 million hectares.
• Restoration initiatives could create $140 billion in value and up to 2.5 million jobs.
• Public-private partnerships are scaling ambitious forest restoration and carbon capture startups are leading on the ground.

d. Make Nature a High-Integrity Asset Class (10:34-11:46)

• Innovative Finance:
  Beyond carbon credits, Brazil explores biodiversity units, payments for ecosystem services, and sustainability-linked bonds.
• The Tropical Forest Forever Facility (TFFF):
  A proposed $125 billion fund to support forest conservation and reward communities for protecting or restoring forests.
• "The fund will pay tropical forest countries and reward frontline communities for every hectare of forest they keep standing or restoring."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [11:27]

5. Call to Action & Vision for the Future (11:47-11:49)

• Leadership, innovation, and recognition of forests’ true worth are critical.
• "For this to happen, we must recognize that forests and nature are worth far more alive than dead."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [11:39]
• If Brazil succeeds, other countries can follow—benefiting people and the planet alike.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Bringing nature to the forefront of policy, from international diplomacy to economic planning, is easy to understand our reasons."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [03:29]
• "Trees cut down today are connected to illicit economies... These environmental crimes are big business, generating around $280 billion a year in illicit profits globally."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [04:49]
• "We can't police our way out of this problem... We need to make standing forests more valuable than cleared land."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [05:36]
• "Restoring such a big area could generate around $140 billion and up to 2.5 million jobs. These are big numbers."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [09:52]
• "Becoming a nature superpower doesn't happen by chance. It demands bold leadership, investment in the bioeconomy, prioritizing nature restoration and financial innovation."
  – Ilona Szabó de Carvalho [11:36]

---

Key Timestamps

• [02:56] – Framing Brazil’s natural assets and global GDP dependency on nature
• [04:46] – Scope and drivers of illegal deforestation
• [05:36] – Limits to law enforcement and need for a new paradigm
• [06:20] – Outlining economic models valuing living forests
• [07:47] – National policy shifts and international cooperation
• [08:22] – Rise of innovative, nature-rooted bioeconomies
• [09:12] – Efficiency through tech partnerships in forest monitoring
• [09:45] – Restoration as a major economic sector
• [10:35] – The promise of nature finance and the TFFF
• [11:39] – Call to recognize forests’ true economic value

---

Tone & Language

Throughout her talk, Ilona Szabó de Carvalho speaks with clarity, urgency, and optimism. She weaves together data, personal experience, and uplifting examples—balancing the scale of threats with concrete hope for systemic transformation. Her tone is both rallying and inclusive, inviting audiences worldwide to join the economic paradigm shift that puts healthy forests—and thus, the future—at the center.

---

Transcript

[Narrator]

Meet the Defender 110 A vehicle built for the modern explorer. With on road presence and off road prowess, it's naturally capable and expedition ready. A raised hood, sculpted grille and durable exterior make it look tough because it is inside. 5. Seat comfort comes standard with an option for 7. Navigate any terrain confidently with 3D surround cameras and the intuitive Pivi Pro infotainment system. There's a Defender for every journey 90, 110 or 130, which boasts room for up to 8. Design your Defender 110@Land RoverUSA.com that's Land RoverUSA.com Ready to order?

[Host (Elise Hu)]

Yes.

[Capital One Advertiser]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver card.

[Host (Elise Hu)]

So let's just get one of everything.

[Iliona Saboa de Carvalho]

Everything.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Fire everything. The Capital One Saver card is at table 27 and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[Host (Elise Hu)]

Yes Chef.

[Iliona Saboa de Carvalho]

This is so nice.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Iliona Saboa de Carvalho]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card. Capital One what's in your wallet?

[Iliona Saboa de Carvalho]

Terms apply.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

See capitalone.com for details.

[Host (Elise Hu)]

This episode of TED Talks Daily is brought to you by upwork. Scaling a business means solving for today and preparing for what's next. And to do that well, you need the right talent at the right moment. That's where upwork comes in. Whether you're looking for support in design, development, marketing or AI, upwork connects you with highly skilled freelancers who are ready to hit the ground running. For over 20 years, Upwork has been creating a better way to work, helping companies of all sizes tap into a global marketplace of trusted experts. You can post a job for free, browse profiles, even get help crafting your job post or book a consultation. From start to finish, upwork makes hiring more flexible, more affordable, and more efficient. So if you need an extra pair of hands or 10, visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's you. P-W-O-R-K.com Upwork.com you're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. Forests are nature's superpower and will always be better than cleared land, according to civic entrepreneur Iliona Saboa de Carvallo. In her talk, she shares why nature aligned economies outperform destructive practices and says it's time for innovative financial programs to help drive an economic paradigm shift that supports us and our planet.

[Iliona Saboa de Carvalho]

A nature superpower. Sounds great, right? But what does it mean? In Brazil, achieving superpower status goes far beyond renewables and green tech. It starts with fundamentally redesigning our relationship with nature. Over half of global GDP depends on everything nature provides for free. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the stability of our climate. That's why bringing nature to the forefront of policy. From international diplomacy to economic planning, it's easy to understand our reasons. Brazil hosts the biggest tropical forest on earth. We have one of the widest and longest rivers on the planet. We're more biologically diverse than any other nation, with more kinds of plants and animals and microbes and fungi. Well, you get the point. I'm an entrepreneur, and I've seen the path for how Brazil and other countries can truly become nature superpowers. But before we go there, we need to overcome big challenges. And the biggest of them all is deforestation. Over the past 40 years, an area larger than California has been cleared to make way for progress in Brazil. And what makes this problem more challenging is that over 90% of deforestation in Brazil is illegal. Trees cut down today are connected to illicit economies like land grabbing, wildlife trafficking, illegal gold mining, and dodge agriculture and ranching practices. These environmental crimes are a big business, generating around $280 billion a year in illicit profits globally. And all of this illegal deforestation has planetary consequences, Taking our carbon forest storing too close to the point of no return. So we need to change this up, because this is stabilizing our food production and our water and climate security. I've spent the last two decades preventing and reducing crime, including those below the forest canopy. My team supports police, prosecutors, financial crimes experts to track illegal products and follow the money across the Amazon basin. But here's the truth. We can't police our way out of this problem. We're just too big. The Amazon alone is larger than the European Union. So, yes, of course, we need better policing and prosecution. But above all, we need to make standing forests more valuable than cleared land. We urgently need a new economic paradigm that recognizes the value of everything nature gives us. Like forests, but also water, soil, minerals, and clean air. This new model should leverage our natural capital and create entirely new economies that work with nature and not against it. And the good news? That this isn't wishful thinking. It's already happening. And the greenbridge facility that I founded is at the frontier of this agenda. So let Me share with you a few of the steps Brazil is taking to become a nature superpower. So first, make nature core to your national identity. Brazilians are finally embracing our tropical forests and other ecosystems. Nature is being mainstreamed into national, regional and global commitments and plans. In 2023, the Brazilian government announced an ecological transformation plan and investment platform. A centerpiece of this strategy involves creating a truly nature based economy, a point I'll come back to at the regional level. Brazil is working with our eight Amazonian neighbors to scale up conservation and sustainable development. Brazil is also exporting nature positive priorities to the global policy arenas like the G20 BRICS and the UN Nature and Climate Conferences. Second, build an inclusive and innovative bioeconomy. New bioeconomies that promote nature based supply chains are sprouting up across Brazil from food to cosmetics and textiles. And what makes Brazil's approach to bioeconomy powerful is that it's rooted in indigenous and local knowledge. The country is creating partnerships with multilateral and national development banks to create and speed up bioeconomy value chains and jobs on the ground. Transformation is being led by impact accelerators like AMAs and by a new generation of companies. One of them is Natura, a global pioneer in the cosmetics sector. Natura puts a premium on sustainably harvesting Amazon ingredients while empowering traditional populations who depend on the forest. They recently partnered with a forest intelligence company called Bioverse, and together they match the largest inventory of forest ever undertaken in Brazil. And they did this in record time, competing in six months, a task they say would normally take 25 years. With satellites, drones and AI, they improved identification of products, sustainably increasing the yields of harvesters who depend on the forest. They are part of a growing ecosystem of Brazilian entrepreneurs and philanthropists like the Arapiahou Institute that are connecting harvesters to responsible buyers, from restaurant holdings like Grupo Trigo to Bento bar chocolate makers like Dango. Third, create a new economic sector focused on nature restoration. To achieve our Paris Agreement's commitments, Brazil has to get to zero deforestation by 2030 and restore 12 million hectares on the way. It's a kind of natural industrial policy. Restoring such a big area could generate around $140 billion and up to 2.5 million jobs. These are big numbers. And to speed this up, the country has launched public private partnerships to protect, restore and sustainably manage massive public forest concessions. Brazilian restoration startups are also scaling up carbon capture and high integrity credits like Regreen and Belterra with their ecological and agroforestry models. After all, Being a nature superpower isn't just about protecting and restoring nature. It's also about creating a new economic sector in a way that it's better for the people, cheaper and more scalable than other carbon capture alternatives. Finally, make nature a high integrity asset class. Brazil is also pioneering nature finance innovations to unlock resources carbon credits. They're just the beginning. Biodiversity units, payments for ecosystem services and sustainability linked bonds are also emerging to jumpstart nature markets. One compelling idea is Brazil's Tropical Forest Forever facility. The TFFF as we call it, features a new $125 billion fund that will support long term forest conservation. The fund will pay tropical forest countries and reward frontline communities for every hectare of forest they keep standing or restoring. Becoming a nature superpower doesn't happen by chance. It demands bold leadership, investment in the bioeconomy, prioritizing nature restoration and sustainable financial innovation. For this to happen, we must recognize that forest and nature are worth far more alive than dead. And if Brazil succeeds in building these new economic models that truly value nature, many other countries can follow. And as a result, we all win. Thank you.

[Host (Elise Hu)]

That was Iliona Saboa de Carvalho at the TED Countdown Summit, Nairobi in Kenya in 2025. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out [e-mail] curationguidelines and that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar and Tonsika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Ballaraiso. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feedback. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Ambetter Health Group. Health insurance can put businesses in a tough position. If you're a business owner, a CFO or an HR leader, this is probably going to sound familiar. It's fall and you find out your group health insurance premium will be more expensive next year, maybe by a lot. And as usual, you have to pick one carrier and a few plans for all of the employees. But they each have different medical needs, different budgets and different preferences for doctors. Plus, the carrier's network might not be strong where all employees live. Fortunately, there's a new approach. It's called an ichra or ichra and it's a game changer. Ichras make costs predictable with stable pre tax contributions and a larger risk pool. And they make health plans personal because employees can buy any plan that fits their needs from any any carrier. You choose how much to contribute. They choose what works for them. It's about time, right? For coverage you control, plan on and Ichra. Learn [e-mail] Ichra.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC.

[Capital One Advertiser]

Balance of nature's fiber and spice Supplement is a one of a kind blend with four fibers and 12 aromatic spices made with psyllium husk, flaxseed, whole apple, monk fruit and 12 incredible spices. Fiber and Spice is the perfect addition to keep you on the right track every day. Go to balanceofnature.com and get 50% off your first fiber and spice supplement as a new preferred customer by using discount code on the go.