Two US governors — a Democrat and a Republican — on why there's hope for democracy | Matt Meyer and J. Kevin Stitt

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: TED Talks Daily
Episode: Two US governors — a Democrat and a Republican — on why there's hope for democracy
Date: November 12, 2025
Speakers: Matt Meyer (Democratic Governor of Delaware), J. Kevin Stitt (Republican Governor of Oklahoma)
Setting: TED Next Conference in Atlanta

Main Theme:
This TED Talk brings together two sitting US governors, representing different political parties, for an honest and insightful discussion of bipartisanship, the role of state governments, polarization in American society, and shared hopes for democracy’s future. Through self-reflective dialogue and mutual respect, the governors offer concrete examples, policy ideas, and candid reflections illustrating that constructive disagreement and collaboration are not only possible, but essential.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Restoring Trust in Government

Timestamps: 03:47–06:29

• State Governments as Laboratories of Democracy:

  • Stitt argues for a return to the principles of federalism:

    “Our founding fathers never envisioned the federal government to dominate every single part of our lives... if we get back to states’ rights and having the states as 50 laboratories of democracy, I think we're going to be much better off than a top-down approach.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 03:59)

• Delivering Tangible Results:

  • Meyer highlights practical governance over ideology:

    “The MAGA Republicans, the Bernie Democrats and pretty much everyone in between would support me if I kept sewage out of their basement and kept their sewer fees low... if all 50 [governors] can do those four things [education, medication, transportation, incarceration] with excellence... I think we will get support and we will win back the American people.” (Matt Meyer, 05:13)

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2. Governing in a Polarized Information Landscape

Timestamps: 06:29–09:52

• Objective Reality vs. Echo Chambers:

  • Meyer compares his wife’s experience as an ER physician with policy debates:

    “There’s a reality. Someone can't show a TikTok video to say, ‘Oh, your foot is not falling off,’ if it’s actually falling off… I wish that same sense of data and truth that she has in her emergency room I had in my world.” (Matt Meyer, 06:45)

• Bridging Personal Divides:

  • Stitt addresses distrust and political stereotypes:

    “There’s probably people in this room that hate me just because I’m a Republican. There’s people watching this that hate Matt, just because he’s a Democrat… when you bring humanity out in each other and when you spend time with people that think differently … we can debate policy and we can still like each other…” (J. Kevin Stitt, 08:08)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Banter over family size:

    “I'm halfway to Kevin Stitt. He's got six.”
    “That's right. You're not done yet.”
    “Don't tell my wife.” (Matt Meyer & J. Kevin Stitt, 08:32–08:40)

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3. State-level Innovations: Learning from Each Other

Timestamps: 09:52–12:50

• Oklahoma’s ‘Be a Neighbor’ Initiative:

  • Stitt on connecting citizens to local support networks:

    “I put up BeANeighbor.org … it connects all of the nonprofits, the church communities, the state resources.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 09:56)

• Fiscal Responsibility and Innovation:

  • Stitt emphasizes the governor as ‘CEO’ of the state:

    “Our job as governors is to be the CEO of our state. I've got a $40 billion budget, 30,000 state employees. I just want to deliver better services for Oklahomans.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 10:39)

• Delaware’s Affordability Agenda:

  • Meyer focuses on cost of living and streamlining government:

    “We're trying to put affordability at the center of everything we do... building a medical school… streamlining permitting… getting rid of what the former someone I like called bureaucratic malarkey… building new energy sources.” (Matt Meyer, 11:41)

• Humorous Aside:

  • “There are a lot of Talladega Night fans... I’m a big fan of Ricky Bobby … Who says if you’re not first, you’re last. I happen to be from the first state, so just want to put that out.” (Matt Meyer, 11:23)

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4. Fixing American Political Culture

Timestamps: 12:50–16:24

• The Value of Teamwork Across Divides:

  • Meyer draws on his experience as a diplomat in Iraq:

    “There was a team there... we weren’t always on the same page... but the American team was a singular team. I often wonder in Delaware, how come when we're talking about housing or healthcare, there are incredible divisions.” (Matt Meyer, 13:01)

• Integrity in Politics:

  • Stitt calls for moral leadership:

    “Integrity is doing what's right just because it’s right, even when it’s costly... you can’t weaponize the Department of Justice. You can't cancel business deals based on politics one side or the other.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 14:23)

• Historical Reference:

  • Stitt highlights President Lincoln’s vision after the Civil War:

    “He talks about a malice towards none and charity for all... we’ve got to stop [the pendulum swings] ... We've got to allow Americans to innovate and meet the needs of Americans.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 14:58)

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5. The Impact of AI on Education and the Future of Schools

Timestamps: 16:24–19:41

• Opportunities and Risks of Technology in Schools:

  • Meyer recalls the transformative power of computers, now paralleled by AI:

    “We can eliminate standardized testing in our schools… better, more thorough assessments of students on a day-to-day basis using modern technology … there are threats. We need to make sure we control the technology and the technology doesn't control us.” (Matt Meyer, 16:24)

• Adaptive Learning with AI:

  • Stitt describes personalized remediation:

    “With AI we can go back and teach first grade phonics to that kid… and help and be a tool for our teachers.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 17:59)

• Learning from Switzerland’s Education Model:

  • Both reflect on recent trip studying apprenticeships and permeability between vocational and university tracks:

    “I think we need to reinvent ourselves.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 19:21)

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6. Why There’s Hope for American Democracy

Timestamps: 19:41–23:05

• The American Dream Remains Alive:

  • Stitt on opportunity, not guaranteed outcomes:

    “The idea is that you can be anything you set your mind to. It doesn't matter who your parents are... as long as the American dream is alive, I think the American democracy is worth fighting for.” (J. Kevin Stitt, 19:51)

• A ‘Diverse, Equitable, and Inclusive America’:

  • Meyer emphasizes diversity and listening across differences:

    “Go and talk to someone who disagrees with you. Not to argue with them, but actually to listen to them, empathize with them, understand the position that they come from. That's what I had to do as a teacher. That's what many Americans do and that's how we ultimately have hope for the next 250 years of this great experiment in self-governance.” (Matt Meyer, 22:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Productive Disagreement:

  “We can disagree but we don't have to do it disagreeable.”
  — J. Kevin Stitt (09:24)

• On Political Divisions:

  “Let's call a spade a spade, and let's not be driven to the corners. Most of America... are right there, and they're taking their kids to piano lessons and soccer practice. They want the best life for their kids.”
  — J. Kevin Stitt (14:30)

• On Democratic Resilience:

  “There is an opportunity here for us as governors, sitting together, as human beings, as Americans. Go and talk to someone who disagrees with you... That’s how we ultimately have hope for the next 250 years of this great experiment in self-governance.”
  — Matt Meyer (22:14)

• Light-hearted Banter:

  “I’m halfway to Kevin Stitt. He’s got six [kids].”
  “That's right. You're not done yet.”
  “Don’t tell my wife.”
  — Matt Meyer & J. Kevin Stitt (08:32–08:40)

• Popular Culture References:

  • Ricky Bobby / Talladega Nights [11:23]
  • The Simpsons & empathy [21:57]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Restoring Trust in Government: 03:47–06:29
• Governing with Polarized Information: 06:29–09:52
• Notable State Innovations: 09:52–12:50
• Fixing Political Culture: 12:50–16:24
• Technology and Education: 16:24–19:41
• Hope for Democracy: 19:41–23:05

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Conclusion

This candid, hopeful conversation models what constructive civic dialogue should look like in America. By sharing real-world policies, personal histories, and reflections on leadership, Governors Meyer and Stitt provide a compelling case for empathy, federalism, collaboration, and innovation at the state level. Their friendly banter underscores the humanity beneath public office, leaving listeners with a vision of democratic resilience rooted in respect, integrity, and action.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

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[Matt Meyer]

All right, first question. We ready? Good morning everyone. Good morning. It's great to be in this hall. It's about the size of Delaware. What can Democratic and Republican governors do together to restore trust in government?

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Well, thank you for that. You know, I think first off that trust in the federal government. Our founding fathers never envisioned the federal government to dominate every single part of our lives. They thought about this idea of federalism, that the states are closer to the people, that the states know how to educate our kids. We're focused on education, we're focused on infrastructure, we're focused on the economy and healthcare. And when you have a one size fits all, it is a problem. And so we know that Delaware is different than Oklahoma. Our founding fathers knew that New Hampshire was different than Virginia. And I think if we get back to states rights and having the states this 50 laboratories of democracy, I think we're going to be much better off than a top down approach. Other countries were a little bit different where the federal government created the these subdivisions, but it wasn't that way in the U.S. the states created the federal government. Congress has about a 15% approval rating right now and states are where it's at. That's where the ideas, the innovation comes. I think the more we get back to that, I think the people are happier. You know Delaware, I know Oklahoma.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right, Kevin. State's right. So 10 years ago I was a 6th and 7th grade math teacher and I ended up running for teachers in the crowd. Not enough of us going to this business politics. And I ran for office. I ran for county office and I'm a pretty progressive Democrat. And I realized pretty quickly the MAGA Republicans, the Bernie Democrats and pretty much everyone in between would support me If I kept sewage out of their basement and kept their sewer fees low, if we answer 911 calls quickly, police qualified, well trained, with a sense of the community they're serving, showed up quickly at people's door. I think the way we restore trust in government is we deliver for people. If you go to 50 governments, if you go to 50 governors across this country, Democrat, Republican, the bulk of our budget is four things. It's education, it's medication, it's transportation, and it's incarceration. And I assure you, if all 50 of us can do those four things with excellence, deliver and maybe reduce your tax bill a little bit so that it's affordable, I think we will get support and we will win back the American people. That's the way we win the trust of our people.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Good. Okay, second question. Even information is now polarized. How do you govern when people may not share our reality or your reality?

[Matt Meyer]

Wow. Give me the easy ones. You make me start on this one, huh? My wife is an emergency room physician, and we often joke that when someone comes into her emergency room, there is no alternative reality. If someone cannot breathe and the data shows someone cannot breathe, she doesn't have a nurse or she doesn't say, hey, you're breathing right, There's a reality. Someone can't show a TikTok video to say, oh, your foot is not falling off, if it's actually falling off. I wish that. That same sense of data and truth that she has in her emergency room I had in my world. I wish that we looked at the data on vaccines, for example, and use that. It's black and white and use that to make policy for our country. I wish we lived in a world where one social media influencer can't change the course of what data actually says. I think one thing that we both get a palpable sense of is how many Americans today are in echo chambers. They watch the same TV station, hear the same thing. That gives them a pat on the back and reassures them. We need to do everything we can to break those patterns. It's going to be hard for us to build a democracy together without that.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, very good. Well, you know, and I think the. The reality is we don't all think the same. Right. Delaware, like I said before, is different than our state. And I want. I think we all should ask ourselves this question as Americans, because there's people watching this. There's probably people in this room that hate me just because I'm a Republican. There's people watching this that hate Matt, just because he's a Democrat, that we're polarized, that we're driven to our corners by social media and the media. And I know Matt. I know his wife, Lauren. He has three children.

[Matt Meyer]

I'm halfway to Kevin Stitt. He's got six.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

That's right. You're not done yet.

[Matt Meyer]

Don't tell my wife.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, we just went to Switzerland together to study education and their model there and bring back these ideas about workplace workforce learning and apprenticeships and. But the thing is, I know that he cares about Delaware citizens, and I know he cares passionately about education and giving people in Delaware a better life, just like I do in Oklahoma. So I think that it's not our job to change everybody's point of view. I think we need to lead and we need to ask ourselves this question, and we need to not just be so driven by polarized politics. And when you bring the humanity out in each other and when you spend time with people, people that think differently, and this idea that we can debate policy and we can still like each other and we may have a difference of opinion on how to. How to lead things, it's so refreshing. And that's why we love doing these type of things together, showing that there's a Republican and a Democrat that actually like each other and we can disagree, but we don't have to do it. Disagreeable. That's right.

[Matt Meyer]

All right, Kevin, what's something your state has done that other states can learn from?

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Yeah, you know, I think it's very topical right now with the government shutdown and SNAP benefits are really affecting all of our states. I know governors, we've been on the phone, we've talked. What are you doing? How are we going to meet the needs of the most vulnerable in our state? And so we set up. And really, I did this back in 2019 when I was first elected, but I put up a Be a neighbor. Be a neighbor.org because I don't believe that you can pass a law in Washington, D.C. or Oklahoma City that can fix some of these social issues. It takes neighbors walking with neighbors. It takes churches and nonprofits. And so our Be a Neighbor concept is, if you have a need, you can go to this website that we've set up, and it connects all of the nonprofits, the church communities, the state resources. And so that's something that I'm really proud of. Also behind them, get a little wonky on policy behind the meter. This idea that we need to win the energy race that we pass in Oklahoma, the fiscal responsibility that, that. That we've done. As coming from a business world that I brought to state government, I believe that our job as governors is. Is to be the CEO of our state. I've got a $40 billion budget, 30,000 state employees. I just want to deliver better services for Oklahomans. And I think that sometimes we elect people that don't have that focus. They're more playing politics and actually delivering for the people. And you said that great while ago, too.

[Matt Meyer]

Yeah. So that's great. I know in Oklahoma. I know in Oklahoma there are a lot of Talladega Night fans and I'm a big fan of. There are in Delaware, too. I'm a big fan of Ricky Bobby.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

I love Ricky Bobby. Yeah.

[Matt Meyer]

Who says if you're not first, you're last. I happen to be from the first state, so just want to put that out. What we're trying to do, what we're trying to do on a serious note, is we're trying to put affordability at the center of everything we do. What's happening, I believe now in today's economy is you have billionaires with greater opportunity to. To build their wealth and working people who are getting squeezed by public schools that don't seem to be working, by energy prices that are skyrocketing, by healthcare that seems saddled with 20th century problems and costs that seem to have no end. So we have an affordability agenda. We're working on building a medical school so that the medical providers will be available in our state. There's never been a medical school in our state. We're working on streamlining, permitting, something in which I think we agree, getting rid of what the former someone I like called bureaucratic malarkey. Getting rid of all the friction that prevents us from building the housing that our people desperately need to bring down rents. And we're working on building new energy sources, something that desperately needed for our economy and so people can afford their power bills.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Excellent. If you could fix one aspect of American political culture, what would that be?

[Matt Meyer]

115 years ago, I was a diplomat. I was a US diplomat embedded with the army for 12 months in Mosul, Iraq. Lived. I wasn't a soldier, but I lived on a base with 10,000 soldiers during operation Iraqi Freedom. And what was amazing is there were soldiers on that base from every corner of America. I say I went to Iraq. I thought I was going to learn about Iraq and Arab culture, which I did. But I learned a lot more about America, and there was a team there. I left the base two or three times a week to go and meet with Iraqis to build a lasting peace. And we weren't always on the same page with the Iraqis we were meeting with, but the American team was a singular team. I often wonder in Delaware, how come when we're talking about housing or healthcare, education, we're talking about growing our economy, there are incredible divisions. How do we build that same sense of teamwork? We're in the midst of the greatest human experiment and self government that's ever occurred. We're in almost the year 250 of this experiment. I think we need to find a way as Americans to sit on stage together, to break bread with each other, to understand that we can't just channel all of our energies into knocking each other down. There are opportunities to be made in Oklahoma and in Delaware that people will realize if we do find a way to work together.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

Good, good. You know, the one thing I would change, Governor, is, is just inject more integrity into politics. And what I mean by that, you know, to me, integrity is. Is doing what's right just because it's right, even when it's costly. And I think politicians especially, that's why people hate politicians, is because they can see right through them. They're not doing what's right. They're blindly following some, you know, teams. It's either your skins or shirts. You're Democrat, you're Republican, and you blindly are following things. Let's call a spade a spade, and let's not be driven to the corners. Most of America, you've got 10% on the far right, 10% on the far left. But most Americans are right there, and they're taking their kids to piano lessons and soccer practice. They want the best life for their. For their. For their kids. They want the best education, the best health care system. And so I think the more that we can talk like this, that we can come together as Americans and stop being so polarized and really debate the ideas. I think the better off we'll be. I also am a huge fan of President Lincoln. And at the end of Civil war, it was almost over, and he was doing his second inaugural address, and he talks about a malice towards none and charity for all. And there was people that wanted to, you know, punish the other side. And much like we are today, we've got a pendulum swinging from one side to another, depending on who's in office. And we've got to stop that. I don't think Americans like it. You can't weaponize the Department of Justice. You can't cancel business Deals based on politics one side or the other. We've got to allow Americans to innovate and meet the needs of American. So next question. With AI's influence on education, what happens to the neighborhood public schools?

[Matt Meyer]

You know, it's interesting, it's been said that the one thing Democrats and Republicans can agree on is social media needs to get out of the classroom. We need kids off social media. My first year of teaching I was in a program called Teach for america in Washington D.C. tFA in the House and we had no computers in our school teaching the Anacostia section of Washington D.C. and so we went on a mission to go talk to businesses nearby universities, get any computers we can, but within a few months we had two, three computers in every classroom. We plugged them into the wall and saw kids faces light up as we brought something called the world Wide Web where they suddenly had opportunities to explore and learn outside the walls of our school like never ever before. I think AI similarly presents incredible opportunities. I think we can eliminate standardized testing in our school. If you look at the tools that AI has, we have better, more thorough assessments of students on a day to day basis using modern technology than would otherwise. One of the biggest problems I had as the 6th grade math teachers is some students walked in with 4th grade, 5th grade skills and other students walked in with 7th grade, 8th grade skills. Using technology we can deliver education like never before that's relevant but there are threats. We need to make sure we control the technology and the technology doesn't control us. And most importantly, it's not driven by trillion dollar companies. What our kids need, that our kids, families and teachers drive, what the needs are so good, so good.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

You know, one of the technologies that we're trying to implement in, in schools in Oklahoma. And back to your point, what amazed me is, is I, I, I, I observed a 6th grade teacher teaching their class but this 6th grade student wasn't reading at grade level and was way behind. And I was like why are you teaching? Why are you continuing to give this kid sixth grade material? And she's like well I'm a sixth grade teacher, what am I supposed to do? And with AI we can go back and teach first grade phonics to that kid or second grade and we can bring them up to grade level to benefit our students and get them and help and be a tool for our teachers. So we're embracing it. I think we need to embrace it. On workforce and education. I think that the thing that we need to think about is get businesses more involved we just got back from Switzerland and this idea in Switzerland that compulsory education ends in ninth grade, and then every single kid signs a contract. It was amazing for us to see. They sign a contract and they actually start going to work because they think workplace education is education. And so these kids, it's permeability. They can also go work, they get accreditation, but then they can go on to college if they want to. And so it's not a dead end like we think of it here in the US that, oh, if you're going to a vocational school, you've got a. You're a dead end person. Right. We want them all going to college. It's not that way in Germany, Switzerland, and I think we need to reinvent ourselves.

[Matt Meyer]

And they were making money, too.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

It was amazing. The kids were making a thousand Swiss francs at 15, which is, I don't know, 13, 1400 U.S. but it was a great model. And we're bringing that back to Oklahoma and Delaware to get kids more engaged in the workforce.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. All right, last one, Kevin. What gives you hope for American democracy?

[J. Kevin Stitt]

You know, as the chair, we're both in the National Governors association, it's the bipartisan group of all the governors. I'm the chair this year, and my initiative is reigniting the American Dream. And the American dream is this idea that is so unique to our country and other countries all want to come here because the idea is that you can be anything that you set your mind to. It doesn't matter who your parents are, doesn't matter if you were rich or poor. Through an education system, through free markets, you can achieve your American Dream. And there's as many dreams as there are people. And it may be that you want to coach your daughter's soccer team, or you want to start a nonprofit, or you want to start a business. Whatever it is, you have the freedom to do that. And as long as the American dream is alive, I think the American democracy is worth fighting for. And we need to fight for that. And we need to not teach our children that there's such things as, you know, equal outcomes for everyone. But we want equal opportunities to go chase those dreams. And I just am so passionate about. That's why I think education is so important to giving those kids those opportunities and expose them with what's possible. Because God has uniquely created everybody differently with great skills and desires and abilities and given them, everybody an individual ability that we want to help that next generation find. And I think that's the greatness of America, is we are different. Delaware's different than Oklahoma. But it is worth fighting for. And that's why we're up here demonstrating that we do get along, we do like each other and we can lead our states maybe a little differently, but it's still American. We're still fighting for it.

[Matt Meyer]

Yeah, I call that. I give him a round of applause for that. I call that, Kevin, a diverse, equitable and inclusive America. So don't use the, don't lose the initials. Don't make them use the initials. Listen, I gotta be frank. I didn't really come here to say this, but last Tuesday's election gave me a little bit of hope for American democracy.

[J. Kevin Stitt]

I think I'm outnumbered in this room, actually.

[Matt Meyer]

Listen, I'm a big Simpsons fan and there's one of my favorite episodes of the Simpsons is when the Simpsons go to electroshock therapy. You know, if you feel empathy for the ones you love, you're gonna care for them.

[Elise Hu]

And.

[Matt Meyer]

And they shock each other for a few minutes till all the power goes down in Springfield. And I feel like when I look at Washington, that's a lot of what's happening right now. We weren't sure if we were going to be able to fly here. Maybe with what's going on, we'll be able to get out, no problem. Our people literally aren't able to eat or haven't been able to get SNAP benefits. Listen, there is an opportunity here for us as governors, sitting together, as human beings, as Americans. Go and talk to someone who disagrees with you. Not to argue with them, but actually to listen to them, empathize with them, understand the position that they come from. That's what I had to do as a teacher. That's what many Americans do and that's how we ultimately have hope for the next 250 years of this great experiment in self governance. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[Elise Hu]

You are listening to Matt Meyer and J. Kevin Stitt at TED Next 2025. TED is a nonpartisan 501 tax exempt organization and does not participate or intervene in any political campaigns and neither supports nor opposes any candidate for public office. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out [e-mail] curationguidelines and that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This talk was fact checked by the TED research team and produced and edited by our team. Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little and Tansika Song Mar. This episode was mixed by Lucy Little. Additional support from Emma tobner and Daniela Balarazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by the new all electric Toyota bz. Have you thought about going electric but worry that charging will take forever? The myth is I'll need to charge my EV all day just to get where I'm going. The truth with the new Toyota bz, charging is built for real life. With the included dual voltage charging cable, you can plug in overnight and wake up ready to go. And when you're on the move under ideal conditions, DC fast charging can get you from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes. Just enough time to grab a coffee or catch up on a couple TED talks. That's power made practical. Learn [e-mail] b z that's T O Y-O-T A.com bz the new all electric BZ Toyota let's go places.

[Matt Meyer]

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[Elise Hu]

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[J. Kevin Stitt]

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[Matt Meyer]

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[J. Kevin Stitt]

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