We don't "move on" from grief. We move forward with it | Nora McInerny (re-release)

Summary

Episode Summary: We don't "move on" from grief. We move forward with it | Nora McInerny

Podcast: TED Talks Daily
Host: TED
Episode Release Date: July 16, 2025
Speaker: Nora McInerny

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Introduction to Nora McInerny’s Journey with Grief

In this poignant and insightful talk, Nora McInerny delves deep into her personal experiences with loss and grief, challenging the conventional notion of "moving on." Instead, she advocates for "moving forward with grief," offering a refreshing perspective that resonates with many who have faced similar tragedies.

A Year of Unimaginable Loss (03:20)

McInerny begins by recounting the harrowing events of 2014, a year marked by profound personal losses:

• October 3rd: Loss of her second pregnancy.
• October 8th: Death of her father from cancer.
• November 25th: Death of her husband, Aaron, after three years battling stage four glioblastoma (a form of brain cancer).

She emphasizes the cumulative impact of these losses, stating, “I’m fun. People love to invite me out all the time... but I’ve experienced loss like no other.”

Turning Tragedy into Advocacy

Transforming her pain into purpose, McInerny has made it her mission to help others navigate grief. She describes her career focused on discussing death and loss, not just her own, but also those of others. “Grief is so uncomfortable. Especially if it’s someone else’s grief,” she acknowledges, highlighting the societal discomfort surrounding discussions of loss.

Creating Community: The Hot Young Widows Club

To address the isolation often felt by bereaved individuals, McInerny co-founded the Hot Young Widows Club. This supportive community brings together widows and widowers, providing a safe space to express emotions and share experiences that others may not understand. She humorously notes the group's features, including membership cards and T-shirts, fostering a sense of belonging.

Notable Quote:
“We have a membership card and T-shirts. And when your person dies... they push you towards each other so you can talk amongst yourselves and not get your sad on other people.” ([05:45])

Challenging the "Move On" Narrative

McInerny passionately critiques the common advice to "move on" from grief. She explains that such phrases imply that loved ones lost can be left behind, which contradicts the everlasting presence they hold in one's life.

Key Insights:

• Presence of the Lost: “When I say, oh, Aaron is... it’s because Aaron still is.” ([10:15])
• Integration, Not Erasure: She advocates for integrating the memory and impact of lost loved ones into one's ongoing life rather than attempting to erase their presence.

Personal Reflections and Memories

Sharing intimate memories, McInerny illustrates how grief remains intertwined with everyday life. She recounts moments like spreading Aaron's ashes and the lingering sensory memories that keep his presence alive.

Emotional Depth:
“When I laid in bed with Aaron and put my hands underneath him... that memory is always going to be sad. That memory will always hurt.” ([14:30])

The Duality of Grief and Joy

McInerny highlights that grief coexists with other emotions, such as happiness and love. She emphasizes that experiencing joy does not negate the pain of loss.

Balanced Emotions:
“Grief is this multitasking emotion that you can and will be sad and happy, you'll be grieving and able to love in the same year or week, the same breath.” ([17:50])

Moving Forward with Grief

In her concluding thoughts, McInerny reiterates that moving forward does not mean leaving grief behind. Instead, it involves acknowledging the enduring influence of loss while continuing to build a fulfilling life.

Final Affirmation:
“We need to remember that a grieving person is going to laugh again and smile again. If they’re lucky, they’ll even find love again. That, yes, absolutely, they're going to move forward, but that doesn't mean that they've moved on.” ([18:00])

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Conclusion

Nora McInerny's heartfelt discourse offers a transformative approach to understanding and living with grief. By reframing grief not as an impediment to moving on but as a companion in moving forward, she provides solace and a new framework for those navigating the tumultuous waters of loss.

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Additional Notes:

• Speaker's Background: Nora McInerny is a writer and podcaster known for her candid discussions on grief and loss.
• Related Works: She has authored uplifting books, hosted a podcast, and founded a nonprofit dedicated to making people comfortable with uncomfortable topics.

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This episode serves as a compassionate guide for anyone grappling with loss, encouraging a more nuanced and enduring relationship with grief.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. Like so many of us, I've experienced deep loss and heartbreak, and it's always bothered me when people have said, you'll move on. That statement has always felt, well, a little out of touch. In this archive talk that's both hilarious and heartbreaking, writer and podcaster Nora McInerney shares her harder wisdom about life and death. She shares things we all need to hear about heartbreak, even if we'd rather avoid them, and encourages us to rethink our approach to grief, not as something to move on from, but as something to move forward with. This episode is sponsored by McDonald's. Okay, confession time. I love a good comeback story, especially when it's delicious and totally unexpected. Back in 2006, McDonald's released the snack Wrap and it quickly became the Go to Bite portable, crunchy, juicy perfection. Then it vanished. Gone. Poof. But the fans like me. Oh, they never gave up. I'm talking nine years of petitions, Facebook groups, memes, international snack wrap, scouting missions. People built entire identities around this thing. It was intense in the best way. And now it's back. Yes, really. Thanks to relentless sauce loving dedication, McDonald's brought back the Snack Wrap. Think crispy, juicy white meat, shredded lettuce, melty cheese, all hugged in a soft tortilla and drizzled with ranch or your pick of sauces. It was never supposed to return, but the fans made it happen. Because sometimes passion wins and sometimes it tastes like a snack wrap. Try the Snack wrap that broke the Internet at a McDonald's near you. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Each Apple product, like the iPhone 16, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple Card is no different. It's laser etched, has no numbers, and it earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple Apply for Apple Card on your iPhone in minutes, subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is sponsored by Dell introducing the new Dell AI PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor. It's not just an AI computer, it's a computer built for AI. That means it's built to help do your busy work for you so you can fast forward through editing images, designing presentations, generating code, debugging code, running lots of apps without lag, creating live translations and captions, summarizing meeting notes, extending battery life, enhancing security, finding that file you are looking for, managing your schedule, meeting your deadlines, responding to Jim's long emails, leaving all the time in the world for more you time and for the things you actually want to do. No offense, Jim. Get a new Dell AI PC starting at [e-mail] AI PC how those ahead, stay ahead.

[Nora McInerney]

So 2014 was a big year for me. Do you ever have that? Just like a big year, like a banner year for me. It went like this. October 3rd, I lost my second pregnancy. And then October 8th, my dad died of cancer. And then on November 25th, my husband Aaron died after three years with stage four glioblastoma, which is just a fancy word for brain cancer. So I'm fun. People love to invite me out all the time. Packed social life. Usually when I talk about this period of my life, the reaction I get is essentially, I can't imagine. But I do think you can. I think you can. And I think that you should, because someday it's gonna happen to you. Maybe not these specific losses in this specific order or at this speed, but like I said, I'm very fun. And the research that I have seen will stun you. Everyone you love has a 100% chance of dying. And that's why you came to Ted. So since all of this last happened, I've made it a career to talk about death and loss, not just my own, because it's pretty easy to recap, but the losses and tragedies that other people have experienced. It's a niche, I have to say. It's a small niche and I wish I made more money, but I've written some very uplifting books, hosted a very uplifting podcast. I started a little nonprofit. I'm just trying to do what I can to make more people comfortable with the uncomfortable. And grief is so uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable. Especially if it's someone else's grief. So a part of that work is this group that I started with my friend Mo, who is also a widow. We call it the Hot Young Widows Club. And it's real. We have membership cards and T shirts. And when your person dies, your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, literally don't care if you were married. Your friends and your family are just going to sort of look around through friends of friends of friends of friends until they find someone who's gone through something. And then they'll push you towards each other so you can talk amongst yourselves and not get your sad on other people. So that's what we do. It's just a series of small groups where men, women, gay, straight, married, partnered, can talk about their dead person and say the things that the other people in their lives aren't ready or willing to hear yet. Huge range of conversations like, my husband died two weeks ago. I can't stop thinking about sex. Is that normal? Yeah. What if it's one of the Property brothers? Less normal, but I'll accept it. Things like, look, when I'm out in public and I see old people holding hands like couples who have clearly been together for decades. And then I look at them and I imagine like all of the things they've been through together, the good things, the bad things, the arguments they've had over who should take out the trash. I just find my heart filled with rage. And that example is personal to me. Most of the conversations that we have in the group can and will just stay amongst ourselves. But there are things that we talk about that the rest of the world, the world that is grief adjacent but not yet grief stricken, could really benefit from hearing. And if you can't tell, I'm only interested in capable of unscientific studies. So what I did was go to the Hot Young Widows club and say, hello, friends, remember when your person died? They did. Do you remember all the things people said to you? Oh, yeah. Which ones did you hate the most? There were a lot of comments, a lot of answers. People say a lot of things, but two rose to the top pretty quickly. Moving now, since 2014, I will tell you. I have remarried a very handsome man named Matthew. We have four children in our blended family. We live in the suburbs of Minneapolis, Minnesota, usa. We have a rescue dog. I drive a minivan. Like the kind where doors open. I don't even touch them. By any measure, life is good. I've also never said measure. I've never once said it that way. I don't know where that came from. I've never heard anyone else say it that way, but it looks like it should be said that way. And that's why the English language is trash. So impressed with anyone who like, speaks it in addition to a language that makes sense. So good job. But by any measure, by any measure, life is really, really good. But I haven't moved on. I haven't moved on. And I hate that phrase so much. And I understand why other people do, because what it says is that Aaron's life and death and love are just moments that I can leave behind me and that I probably should. And when I talk about Aaron, I slip so easily into the present tense. And I've always thought that made me weird. And then I notice that everybody does it. And it's not because we are in denial or because we're forgetful. It's because the people we love, who we've lost, are still so present for us. So when I say, oh, Aaron is, it's because Aaron still is. And it's not in the way that he was before, which was much better. And it's not in the way that churchy people tried to tell me that he would be. It's just that he's indelible. And so he's present for me here. He's present for me in the work that I do, in the child that we had together, in these three other children I'm raising, who never met him, who shared none of his DNA, but who are only in my life because I had Aaron and because I lost Aaron. He's present in my marriage to Matthew because Aaron's life and love and death made me the person that Matthew wanted. So I have not moved on from Aaron. I've moved forward with him. We spread Aaron's ashes in his favorite river in Minnesota. And when the bag was empty, because when you're cremated, you fit into a plastic bag. There were still ashes stuck to my fingers, and I could have just put my hands in the water and rinsed them, but instead I licked my hands clean because I was so afraid of losing more than I had already lost. And I was so desperate to make sure that he would always be a part of me. But of course he would be. Because when you watch your person fill himself with poison for three years just so he can stay alive a little bit longer with you. That stays with you when you watch him fade from the healthy person he was the night you met to nothing. That stays with you when you watch your son, who isn't even two years old yet, walk up to his father's bed on the last day of his life, like he knows what's coming in a few hours and say, I love you. All done. Bye, bye. That stays with you. Just like when you fall in love finally, like really fall in love with someone who gets you and sees you and you even see, oh, my God, I've been wrong this entire time. Love is not a contest or a reality show. It's so quiet. It's this invisible thread of calm that connects the two of us. Even when everything is chaos and things are falling apart, even when he's gone, that stays with you. We used to do this thing because my hands are always freezing and he's so warm, where I would take my ice cold hands and shove him up his shirt, press him against his hot bod. And he hated it so much, but he loved me. And after he died, I laid in bed with Aaron and I put my hands underneath him and I felt his warmth. And I can't even tell you if my hands were cold, but I can tell you that I knew it was the last time I would ever do that. And that that memory is always going to be sad. That memory will always hurt, even when I'm 600 years old and I'm just a hologram, just like the memory of meeting him is always going to make me laugh. Grief doesn't happen in this vacuum. It happens alongside of and mixed in with all of these other emotions. So I met Matthew, my current husband, who doesn't love that title, but it's so accurate. I met Matthew and there was this audible sigh of relief among the people who love me. Like, it's over. She did it. She got a happy ending. We can all go home. And we did. Good. And that narrative is so appealing even to me. And I thought maybe I'd gotten that too, but I didn't. I got another chapter, and it's such a good chapter. I love you, honey. It's such a good chapter. But especially at the beginning, it was like an alternate universe or one of those old choose your own adventure books from the 80s where there are two parallel plot lines. So I opened my heart to Matthew and my brain was like, would you like to think about Aaron? Like, the past, the present, future, like, just get in there. And I did. And all of a sudden, those two plots were unfurling at once. And falling in love with Matthew really helped me realize the enormity of what I lost when Aaron died. And just as importantly, it helped me realize that my love for Aaron and my grief for Aaron and my love for Matthew are not opposing forces. They're just strands to the same thread. They're the same stuff. I'm. What would my parents say? I'm not special. They had four kids. They were like, frankly. But I'm not. I'm not special. I know that. I am fully aware that all day, every day, all around the world, terrible things are happening all the time. Like I said, fun person. But, like, terrible things are happening. People are experiencing deeply formative and traumatic losses every day. And as part of my job, this weird podcast that I have, I sometimes talk to people about the worst thing that's ever happened to them. And sometimes that's the loss of someone they love. Sometimes days ago or weeks ago, years ago, even decades ago. And these people that I interview, they haven't closed themselves around this loss and made it the center of their lives they've lived. Their worlds have kept spinning, but they're talking to me, a total stranger with the person they love who has died. Because these are the experiences that mark us and make us just as much as the joyful ones. And just as permanently, long after you get your last sympathy card or your last hot dish, like, we don't look at the people around us experiencing life's joys and wonders and tell them to move on, do we? We don't, like, send a card that's like, congratulations on your beautiful baby. And then five years later, think, like, another birthday party, get over it. Like, yeah, we get it. He's five. Wow. But grief is kind of one of those things like falling in love or having a baby or watching the Wire on HBO where you don't get it until you get it, until you do it. And once you do it, once it's your love or your baby, once it's your grief in your front row at the funeral, you get it. You understand what you're experiencing is not a moment in time, it's not a bone that will reset, but that you've been touched by something chronic, something incurable. It's not fatal. But sometimes grief feels like it could be. And if we can't prevent it in one another, what can we do? What can we do other than try to remind one another that some things can't be fixed and not all wounds are meant to heal. We need each other to remember, to help each other remember that grief is this multitasking emotion that you can and will be sad and happy, you'll be grieving and able to love in the same year or week, the same breath. We need to remember that a grieving person is going to laugh again and smile again. If they're lucky, they'll even find love again. That, yes, absolutely, they're going to move forward, but that doesn't mean that they've moved on. Thank you.

[Elise Hu]

That was Nora McInerney speaking at TED Women in 2018. This talk was originally published in November 2018. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out [e-mail] curationguidelines and that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar and Tonsika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balaurazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. Foreign.

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