What happens when your dog uses the internet | Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What Happens When Your Dog Uses the Internet" by Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas

Podcast Information:

• Title: TED Talks Daily
• Host: TED (Elise Hu)
• Episode: What Happens When Your Dog Uses the Internet
• Speaker: Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas
• Release Date: July 3, 2025

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Introduction: Bridging the Gap Between Humans and Animals ([02:44] - [03:30])

In her enlightening talk, computer scientist Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas explores the intriguing concept of a social internet for animals. She begins by contemplating the daily isolation many pet owners' animals face and proposes leveraging technology to alleviate this separation. Ilyena shares her foundational idea:

"What if we could use technologies to enable animals to have choice over their lives and control, including their social life?" ([03:00]).

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Early Experiments: Dogs and Interactive Devices ([03:31] - [05:15])

Ilyena recounts her initial experiments with her own dog, Zach, during her master's studies in computer science. She designed devices using Arduino and Raspberry Pi to allow dogs to interact with their environment more autonomously. One such invention enabled Zach to change TV channels alongside her, sparking the question:

"Would this even be what a dog would want?" ([04:10]).

Her findings revealed that dogs could use these devices without training, indicating a level of understanding and enrichment, even though the exact motivations remained unclear.

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Expanding to Other Species: White-Faced Saki Monkeys ([05:16] - [07:45])

Moving beyond domestic dogs, Ilyena conducted studies with white-faced saki monkeys in Helsinki's zoos. She introduced a tunnel device that played various audio and video stimuli upon activation. Observations included:

• Preferences: Monkeys favored watching underwater barracudas and jellyfish, aligning with their dietary habits.
• Behavioral Impact: A notable reduction in scratching behavior, suggesting decreased stress levels.

These results underscored the potential for technology to enhance animal well-being by providing control and stimulating their natural behaviors.

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Understanding Animal Interaction with Technology ([07:46] - [09:30])

Ilyena delves into the complexities of interpreting why animals use technology. She cites research with marmoset monkeys swinging a light switch, theorizing that the act provides a sense of control and predictability rather than a desire for the light itself. This segment highlights the challenges in discerning animal motivations:

"We don't know if they understand the device... but continued use implies some level of enrichment." ([05:30]).

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Enhancing Social Connectivity: Video Calling for Pets ([09:31] - [13:00])

Recognizing the critical role of social interactions in animal well-being, Ilyena pursued the idea of video calls for animals. Starting with her dog, she developed a ball device that allowed Zach to video call her. The results were promising:

• Routine Development: Zach established regular calling times, enhancing their bond.
• Behavioral Changes: Increased communication mirrored human social patterns.

However, limitations arose when human availability became a bottleneck. This led her to innovate further by enabling animals to connect directly with each other.

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Pioneering Parrot Social Networks ([13:01] - [16:00])

Focusing on parrots, renowned for their social nature, Ilyena and her team developed a tablet-based system where parrots could initiate video calls using their tongues. Key findings include:

• Social Preferences: Parrots displayed favoritism towards certain peers, akin to human friendships.
• Interactive Behaviors: During calls, parrots engaged in grooming, playing, dancing, and singing together.

A pivotal moment in her research was observing how parrots reacted to pre-recorded versus live interactions:

"Parrots reduced the amount of times they triggered calls within the system... as soon as we took away the live interaction." ([15:45]).

This indicated that parrots could discern and respond differently to the authenticity of interactions, suggesting a nuanced understanding of their digital environment.

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Caregiver Perspectives and Future Implications ([16:01] - [16:55])

Ilyena emphasized the positive feedback from animal caregivers, who reported enhanced relationships and increased trust with their pets through the use of these technologies. She envisions a future where such innovations could:

• Veterinary Care: Allow animals to maintain social connections even during medical treatments.
• Zoo Management: Enable separation for behavioral reasons without compromising social bonds.

Concluding her talk, Ilyena reflects on the broader implications:

"We are starting to discover that animals have really complex and deep needs... and we're starting to uncover more about them as we go." ([16:30]).

She passionately advocates for the continued development of technology to support animal autonomy and social well-being, highlighting the transformative potential these tools hold for both animals and their human companions.

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Conclusion

Ilyena Hirskyj-Douglas presents a visionary perspective on integrating technology into the lives of animals, fostering autonomy and enhancing social interactions. Her pioneering work challenges traditional notions of animal care and opens avenues for deeper understanding and connection between humans and animals in the digital age.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. I never thought I'd see the day where I walk into the room and see my one year old golden retriever Oscar video chatting with a friend who's also a golden retriever. It might make some people laugh, but for computer scientist Ilyana Herskege Douglas, the notion of a social Internet for animals isn't far off and is one she's actively exploring. In her talk, she shares why giving animals access to technology can make their lives better and why animals are more socially aware than we think.

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[Ilyana Herskege Douglas]

Many of you out here will have a dog at home that's potentially cut off and isolated from anyone right now. We as people have managed to bridge this divide just with a quick swipe of our phone. Able to Contact a loved one with video call or a telephone call. My research asks what if we do the same for animals? What if we allow animals to use the Internet and connect online? Now you may be laughing and think this is a really strange idea, but many of us already use technology with our pets. Many people here will have collars which have trackers on able to detect where their dog or cat is at any point. And we as researchers often use screen technologies and various different sorts of technologies to monitor and measure animals cognition and behavior. When we start to think about it, we actually control a lot of our animals lives. We control what they eat, we control where they go, we control what activities they do, and we even control their friends and who they see. What if we could instead use technology to flip this script? What if we could use technologies to enable animals to have choice over their lives and control, including their social life? So I began this journey when I was 21 and I got my dog Zach, who you can see here. At the time I was studying a master's in computer science. I got really into building Arduino and Raspberry PI and low fidelity computer technology. And I was sitting one day on the sofa with my dog and I started to think, what if he could also control the TV with me when we were watching it together? What if as well as me changing the channel, my dog could do the same? And importantly, would this even be what a dog would want? And so I began to build my dog and many different other dogs computer devices. I began building these screen devices that detect when a dog gets close and then plays them different sorts of videos. After using this device with various different dogs, what I found is that all dogs introduced to this device would use this without any form of training. While they use it, we really don't know why they would use this device. We don't know if they understand the device. But to keep using it implies some level of enrichment, some level of understanding. Later on, I then moved to Finland in Helsinki and I was visiting the zoo and I started to realize that many other zoo animals also have little control over their lives. And so I expanded my work and I started working with white faced saki monkeys. These are a tiny species of monkeys, typically live about mid range in the rainforest and rather elusive. I built them this tunnel device that again similar to the dog device, whenever they enter, would play them different audio and different sorts of videos. I gave them these two devices over several different months. And what I found was fascinating. We found that these monkeys significantly like watching underwater barracudas and jellyfish and mealworms, which makes more sense because they eat mealworms and what they like listening to is really heavy beeping, traffic noise, which makes completely no sense. And like I mentioned before, it's not only about what they use it for, but also the impact on them. So we started to look at also the changes in their behaviors. Does using this device to change something about them. And what we found was that they significantly reduced their scratching behavior, which can be seen as a stressful behavior. And so we start to get onto something more powerful here that giving animals technology not only gives them a choice and ability to control their lives, but it also gives them something which can impact their well being and improves their health. Now, as I mentioned before, we don't really know why animals use technology. Is it because it gives them a choice? Is it because of the stimuli or videos or audio that it gives? Is it something totally different? We don't really know. We can't ask them a questionnaire, the same as we can do when we do research with humans. This marmoset monkey, for instance, researchers gave a light switch where they were able to turn on and off a light inside their own enclosure from having this light switch. What researchers find is they would continually turn on and off this light. And they suspect they do this not because they want the light, but because it gives them control over their environment, it gives them predictability. And so you can see it's really confusing and sometimes unknown and complex on why animals would use technology in the first place. So I kept developing different devices for animals from heating devices, audio devices and different video devices. But I started to realize that we still control the most fundamental part of our animals lives, which is the social lives. Global lockdown taught us that we as humans, when we are isolated, it is bad for our mental health. And the same could be said for many different sorts of animals. Many animals live naturally in the wild in really big groups. Parrots fly in flocks of hundreds, dogs run in packs. Primates often live in really complex groups, such as chimpanzees, which come together and then go apart in a process called efficient fusion. And when we keep animals in captivity, for practical reasons, we don't always keep them in the same groups. There's limited cost, there's limited space, and also sometimes behavioral management. Recently I visited an aquarium and the head of research there was showing me the fish that they keep to one side because they're naughty and fight with other fish. And so even these animals you can see, sometimes are separated. So I started to wonder, what if we could use technology to connect these animals together? What if we could use video calls to do this? We as humans have used video calls and this has benefited us a lot of would animals want this and would they use this? So I started with what I knew, which was my dog. I built him this ball device which recognized when he carries it and when he moves it around and his leaning behaviors. And it would video call me from a TV that I set up in our lounge. I gave him this device whenever he was home alone. And I waited to see if he would ring me. What I found is that he would ring me a lot. He started video calling me and developing these routines. Typically, he would ring me often in the morning and then later on in the evening. But sometimes these calls became a bit too much. Sometimes he would ring me back to back to back, and I would talk to him about our daily life. But eventually I'd just run out of things to talk about. And so what I did was I flipped the camera in my phone around and instead I started showing him my world. I showed him the people I was with, I showed him the food I was eating. Buskers in the street, wherever I was is what I showed him. And in many ways, the technology then became a tool for him to have a portal beyond his home. But there was still a problem here that me as a person wasn't always available, which is why I was often out of the house. I was in meetings and I couldn't keep running this of picking up these phone calls. So I started to wonder, what if animals could ring each other instead and we just cut people out. And this brought me to parrots. Parrots are really highly social creatures, often live in big groups, really complex, and have really deep and meaningful relationships with each other. And yet, when we keep them as pets, we often keep them alone. So I started to wonder, would a parrot video call another parrot if given a choice? So I got my thinking hat on and me and my collaborators, we started to build a screen based system on a tablet which had profile photos of different parrots. And then taught parrots how to trigger the video calls by using their tongues on the screens so they ring a bell to get over the caregiver.

[Paige]

Do you want to call a friend?

[Ilyana Herskege Douglas]

Would you like to call a friend?

[Paige]

Eleanor, who would you like to call this time?

[Elise Hu]

Which friend would you like to call?

[Paige]

You want to call Rosie?

[Ilyana Herskege Douglas]

Hi. We then gave Paris to System for a couple of months. And what we found was they used the system a lot similar to my dog because they had a choice of friends. We also couldn't look at who they called. And what we found is that they actually had favorite friends in the same way that me and you have favorite friends, we like to call. We also found that they did more calls the more they were called in. So there's an element of sociality here, there. We then looked at what behaviors they did within the calls. And they did such vast and wonderful different behaviors. For instance, they groomed together, they also played together, they showed each other their toys, they danced together, and they even sing together.

[Elise Hu]

When you drink fork, you like singing.

[Ilyana Herskege Douglas]

He's getting the hood sided. But still, we face the problem that sometimes parrots want to trigger a call and the person had to set up the system or the other parrot wasn't available the same way we were in France, and they're not always available. And so I started to wonder, could we change the system? In essence, does it matter if the other parrot is live in real time? Can we just play videos instead? And so I modified the system. I rebuilt it and put in these video versions of parrots. So these were video of parrots in video calls rather than live calls. I then introduced the parrots to these new video versions and gave them back the system to use. I was asking here, can a parrot tell the difference between a live and a pre recorded version of the system? And what I found was when we gave parrots the system, there was an immediate behavior change. Parrots reduced the amount of times they triggered calls within the system and also reduced the amount of time they spent in the calls. And this wasn't a gradual, this was instantaneous as soon as we took away the live interaction. Now, while we don't know what a parrot understands about being online, we're still very much looking at this with people. What this starts to imply is that parrots somehow are able to tell and potentially make some understanding of being in the digital world. Now, parrots don't live alone. They also live with their caregivers. And so we also asked their caregivers, how did they find this system? Because part of making technology for animals is also making sure that it works for those around them. When we surveyed all caregivers, what we found is that 100% of caregivers said that their bird benefited from this system. They said that they felt closer to their bird, that it helped their relationship with their bird, and they had more trust in there. However, beyond these different animals using this system, and there's much more out there, the findings really go beyond this. We are starting to begin to uncover really that animals have social awareness and understanding of potentially being online and each other. By using the systems with animals, we're starting to discover that animals have really complex and deep needs. They have lots of different emotions and maybe they prefer heavy traffic noise rather than Taylor Swift like us. But we're starting to uncover more about them as we go. I also see a really bright future for this sort of technology. Imagine if you put your dog into the vet and you're still able to connect with them to video call and they're still able to connect with their friends. We keep many animals in zoos that for, as I mentioned, whatever reason are separated. Maybe we could use technologies to connect animals together and keep in touch with family groups. Now, I'm biased because I build this technology, but I really see the enormous potential that this technology can bring. It's got so many exciting possibilities and 100% of animals we've given this technology to so far use it and it benefits the relationships with their caregivers. So the next time you make a video call to a loved one, just remember that a parrot might be doing the same. Reaching out across the divide, seeking connection and companionship in their own unique way. Thank you very much.

[Elise Hu]

That was Ilyana herskiche Douglas at TEDxManchester in 2025. If you're curious about TED's curation, find out [e-mail] curationguidelines and that's it for today's show. TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited by our team, Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little, Alejandra Salazar and Tansika Sarmarnivon. It was mixed by Christopher, Faizy Bogan. Additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniela Balaurazo. I'm Elise Hu. I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

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