What music is for | Wallis Bird

Summary

Podcast Summary: TED Talks Daily – "What music is for" with Wallis Bird

Date: July 28, 2026
Host: Elise Hu
Guest: Wallis Bird (Musician/Songwriter)
Interviewer: Anna Bullbrook (TED Music Curator)

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Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed Irish musician Wallis Bird, recorded live at TED 2026. Interspersing songs and a reflective, revealing conversation with Anna Bullbrook, Bird discusses her musical journey, creative process, sources of energy, the healing and communal power of music, her activism, and her philosophy on songwriting. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, on-stage performances, and Bird’s signature wit and warmth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Wallis Bird's Musical Origins and Relationship with Music

• Bird received her first guitar at six months old and views music as something cosmic, gifted from outside herself.
• She treats her songs less as creations and more as companions.
• Quote: "I consider my songs my friends so I have a listen to what they're telling me and I constantly checking in. I always try and give it a lot of respect and a lot of time." (Wallis Bird, 01:00)

2. Performing and The Power of Energy

• Bird's performances are renowned for their relentless and infectious energy.
• She attributes this energy to something beyond herself, cosmically inspired.
• Quote: "No matter what...if I'm dying of the flu in the bed, I managed to somehow get up on stage...it's something that was handed to me from elsewhere, something very cosmic." (09:51)

3. Creation, Joy, Grief, and Activism Through Song

• Music as a vehicle for joy: "To My Bones" is about a perfect, joyful moment.
  • Performance: "Oh, life, I love you to my bones..." (05:38–06:17, 07:46–09:36, 39:49–40:24)
• Music as a tool for processing grief, especially after personal loss.
• Music as activism, especially for human rights, anti-racism, and queer activism.
• Sideways political songs: "existing on this planet is political." (17:19)

4. The Songwriting Process: Listening, Visualizing, Accepting

• Bird receives songwriting inspiration as "transmissions" and believes in listening to what the songs want.
• She visualizes lyrics as colors, feelings, smells, and spaces, turning them into almost sensory landscapes.
• She has learned to embrace whatever a song becomes and never resent it, especially mindful of her young audience.
• Quote: "I have to love what I'm doing because I'd probably be singing this for the rest of my life." (27:22)

5. Notable Performances and Memorable Quotes

"To My Bones"

• The song is a joyful mantra about loving life, sparked by a transcendent experience in a pub among strangers.
• "Oh, life, I love you to my bones..." (05:38–06:17, 07:46–09:36, 39:49–40:24)

"As the River Flows"

• Song reflects on refugees’ experiences, crossing the Mediterranean, blending grief and hope, and championing humanitarian values.
• Quote: "It's not the most pleasant thing, but it's actually celebrating those who lived." (16:16)

"Indictum"

• Explores vulnerability, love, and the need for growth in relationships.
• Quote: "It's about self-protection and somebody offering you something that you don't want. And it could be the make or break of your relationship..." (32:24–33:49)

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Deep Dive: Insights by Segment

[04:09–06:17] Wallis’s Life and Inspiration for "To My Bones"

• Bird reflects on her musical journey and emphasizes that joy is central to her songwriting and performance.

[09:41–12:19] Energy, Performance, and Connecting with Audiences

• Connects her energy to a cosmic source, admits a drive to reach even the most resistant audience members, and sees every performance—no matter how challenging—as an opportunity.

[12:22–14:23] Early Experiences, Family, and Loss

• Bird shares the story of losing her fingers in a childhood accident, how music became a coping mechanism, and how grief deepened her relationship with songwriting.

[15:12–17:38] Activism and Music as "Sideways Political"

• Discusses her activism for queer rights, migrants, and refugees, emphasizing that all existence is inherently political and connected.

[23:30–25:12] Grief, Humanity, and Listening to the Cosmos

• Explains her latest album’s themes of grief and loss—on both individual and collective levels—and how looking at the cosmos and "listening to the world" shape her perspective.

[25:29–27:22] Songwriting: The Song's Will and Artistic Duty

• Discusses treating songs as living entities with their own needs, resisting resentment of her creations, and always considering the long-term impact of her lyrics, especially for children.

[34:47–39:13] Listening, Creating Space, and Rapid-Fire Insights

• Bird shares her approach to listening to music and the world, her love for small, private spaces when composing, and rapid-fire answers revealing her humor and philosophy.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "My name is Wallace Bird. That's my real name. I was born in Ireland and I was given my first guitar at six months old, and I have been chasing music ever since." (04:11)
• "I want to think in a solutionist way. I want to think that there's beauty in this world. I'm very aware of the pessimism and the bad things in this world. And so I'm choosing my lot, which is to be kind of, I'd like to die on stage, and people to feel like I tried to be warm and inviting and never damning anything and hoping for a nicer future..." (28:09)
• "Music brings a lot of free and easy enjoyment and like, no pressure enjoyment. And I think I'm back on that track now." (14:28)
• "Existing on this planet is political. Everything. We are close. As close to a blade of grass as we are to, you know, I mean, the future of AI or whatever. It's all related." (17:19)

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Lightning Round Highlights

(37:04–39:13)

• Morning person or night owl?: "Morning person now, probably because I don’t drink anymore."
• Superpower?: "Flying. Why not? I'm a bird."
• Theme song?: "Got the best of my love. I swear to God, every morning for the last year, nearly every morning, I'm like, put it straight on."
• Biggest gratitude?: "Being here, it's no small gratitude. Everything's actually a quite large gratitude..."

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Episode Conclusion

Wallis Bird’s conversation with Anna Bullbrook is an open, joyful, and sometimes vulnerable exploration of a life in music. Bird’s blend of humor, warmth, activism, and vivid musicianship brings clarity to the episode’s central theme: music is for connection, healing, activism, and community. Her parting message: leave the world better, invite others in, and always return to joy.

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Essential Timestamps

• [01:00] Treating songs as friends and companions
• [05:38] "To My Bones" – repeated mantra performance
• [09:41] Source of Wallis’s on-stage energy
• [12:42] Childhood injury and music as comfort
• [14:28] Newfound love, music as communal joy
• [16:00] Insights on activism and "As the River Flows"
• [23:40] Processing grief through music and the cosmos
• [25:29] The songwriting process—“finding what the song wants”
• [27:22] Loving every song and writing for children
• [32:24] "Indictum" and handling emotional distance
• [37:04] Lightning-round questions and quickfire wisdom
• [39:49] Closing performance: "To My Bones" mantra

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Transcript

[Capital One Bank Announcer]

Foreign.

[Elise Hu]

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hume. Wallace Byrd was handed her first guitar when she was six months old. She's been playing music ever since, and if you've ever seen her on stage, you know she plays with a kind of energy that seems almost too big for one body to hold. Where does it come from?

[Wallace Bird]

I just realized that it's something that was handed to me from elsewhere, something very cosmic. I feel it very strongly.

[Elise Hu]

Wallace, an Irish musician and songwriter, took to the TED stage to perform three original songs, and afterwards she sat down with ted's music curator Anna Bullbrook for a special beyond the Talk conversation to explore her work and the stories behind the songs she performed. For Wallace, songwriting isn't really about invention. It's about listening to the world, to the cosmos and the into the songs themselves, which she treats less like things she makes than company she keeps.

[Wallace Bird]

I consider my songs my friends so I have a listen to what they're telling me and I constantly checking in. I always try and give it a lot of respect and a lot of time.

[Elise Hu]

What follows is a conversation with Wallace's performance woven throughout about joy, grief, activism and what it takes to keep making things that bring people together, even when the world gives you every reason to look away.

[Wallace Bird]

I'd like to die on stage and people to feel like I tried to be warm and inviting and hoping for a nicer future.

[Elise Hu]

That's coming up right after a short break. This episode is brought to you by Dell. Back to school starts now. Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by Series 3 Intel Core so you can work from anywhere now starting at $699 with exclusive stud student pricing starting at 599 and it's lightweight, portable and packed with enough processing power to make multitasking a breeze. So say goodbye to distractions and hello to more free time because you finished your work faster. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and more. Must have electronics and accessories, limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you at Dell.com deals that's Dell.com/deals. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card puts the power of Titanium in the palm of your hand. What does that mean? It means the power to earn unlimited daily cash back on your purchases every day. It means a materially different credit card accepted anywhere in the world. MasterCard is accepted. Ditch the plastic upgrade to Titanium, apply in the wallet app on iPhone today, subject to credit approval, Apple card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Gusto. For a lot of small business owners, the challenge isn't just growing the business. It's everything that comes with it. Hiring, payroll, benefits, the work that happens behind the scenes, but still takes real time and energy. That's where Gusto makes a difference. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire onboard, and support your team from anywhere. With built in automated tools, your team spends less time on paperwork and more time focused on growth. And Gusto has options for nearly every budget you get. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. Getting started is easy. Transfer your existing data and get up and running quickly. Try gusto [e-mail] TedTalks and get free three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] Ted Talks One more time Gusto.com Ted Talks. And now our TED Conversation of the day.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Okay, so we're starting with an easy one.

[Wallace Bird]

Okay.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, my God. That's not easy. My name is Wallace Bird. That's my real name. I was born in Ireland and I was given my first guitar at six months old, and I have been chasing music ever since. I love anything to do with music. I love people that are involved in it, and I think about the rhythm of the planet and my part in it. The first song that I performed at TED was To My Bones. It's quite an old song. Should I talk about it?

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

Okay. It's about 15 years old, and I feel like it's my flagship song. It's the one that I wrote that makes me happiest. Where it's brought me and what it's given me. It's about joy and a perfect moment out with friends and the way people have connected with it and the amount of joy that it's brought me and other people, especially kids, is really, really special to me. So, yeah, that's what that song is about.

[Anna Bullbrook]

You want to grab your guitar?

[Wallace Bird]

Cool.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Maybe we can talk about how you receive transmissions or maybe something you want to elucidate about a songwriting moment with one of these songs. Is there like a lick that stands out to you as like a inciting incident for one of these songs? A lick or a rhythm? Or a bit.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Something that unlocked something.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Okay, cool.

[Wallace Bird]

I'm a big fan of repetitions.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Oh, life, I love it. Bones. Oh, life, I love you to my bones. Oh, life, I love you to my bones. Oh, life, I love you to my bones. Oh, life, I love you to my bones.

[Wallace Bird]

And then I lose my mind at the end of that. It's just a mantra. It's just this. Keep going and keep going and go further and further and further and I. And I. I think that's just my calling. Keep going and go further. I'm not saying I'm excellent or anything, but I definitely love doing that.

[Anna Bullbrook]

That was a really good closing line. Where did the lyric oh, life, I love you to my bones come from?

[Wallace Bird]

It was just a feeling. It was a feeling of ecstasy. There was this moment where we were all in a pub and it was a disco pub, and we started doing the same dance choreography at the same time. I don't know how that happened. And we were doing lyrics like. It's about this moment in a bar with strangers where the moment just felt too good to be true. And I remember just that line kept coming to me. Oh, life, I love you to my bones. As if you can't handle how good the moment is. So it just came out, actually. Yeah. Hi. Yeah, so my name is Ted. You're all very welcome to my world and going to sing Ye three songs. The first one is for joy and the second one is for humanity. And the last one is for the heart. So they're real depressing. You're welcome.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

See ya.

[Wallace Bird]

Okay. All right. This is called to my bones.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

We're kissing the lips of strangers we're hugging whoever next we meet oh, life, I love you to my bones when everything should be we're listless Take them home and cook them dinners and sing oh, life, I love you to my

[Anna Bullbrook]

bones

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Domino's medicine It's who you are and who you win Take a seat and let it grow the world will love you Elephants of memory and Alphabet of chemistry all of these things How I be Roscoe and be me Laughter and no TV I've got punchlines and fisticuffs and tongues and tons of love I've got farsights and Dutch ghost There's no such thing as too old and my fortune is my home My home and all I know oh, yeah because because oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones.

[Wallace Bird]

Thanks very much.

[Anna Bullbrook]

This is a perfect segue into talking about your energy. You are known as a performer with infinite energy. Where does it come from?

[Wallace Bird]

Well, actually, Anna, I do, and I don't know, like, where I say it comes from is it's an outer body thing. No matter what I, I. If I'm dying of the flu in the bed, I managed to somehow get up on stage. It's grand. I've never been so sick that I've had to not be able to get the energy to play. And sometimes when I'm lost in the moment of it, I just realize that it's something that was handed to me from elsewhere, something very cosmic. I feel it very strongly. And the older I get, the closer I get to understanding. I used to be a bit shy about admitting that it feels cosmic because it just felt a bit trite or something. But I think we might all die, so I like being romantic about it.

[Anna Bullbrook]

You know, you have this, you know, 1 million watt bulb energy on stage, but whose Wallace offstage?

[Wallace Bird]

I think the very same. I just really enjoy people. And when I'm up on stage, it's just a moment to. I get a real kick out of guiding a room like a DJ or something like that. And it's really interesting for me to create something that at least everybody in the room, like, I tend to pinpoint people who are just stood there like this, I'm not into this, or I was dragged here, and I go straight to that person and try and find something that makes their eyes light up or something. So that was always my drive, to kind of connect a room. And maybe that's just me wanting everybody to love me and it's some lame trauma from my childhood or something. But I love people and I'm not that much different off stage, to be honest with you. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Have you ever had a room so challenging you didn't crack the code?

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, yeah. Rare, though. Rare. There's always something. And I'm a bit persistent as well. But there has been one or two concerts in my life where I was like, whoa, that was just impenetrable. And it's almost surprising that you have to laugh at it. Well, it's not to do with me, I'll tell you.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Sometimes it's just a tough room.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah. I mean, I've been in rooms where I was asked, like, I was in a In a room where there was a very intense national security scare. Oh, yeah. And I was asked to be mindful of that. And so these kind of. I see it as an opportunity to take something in and take something from it. So it's. Nothing's ever lost in the doing of something, you know? Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Okay. You mentioned that you started playing guitar when you were six months old.

[Wallace Bird]

Well, yeah, it was given to me.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

I was like, explain this.

[Wallace Bird]

It was like a teddy, I suppose. And I guess my parents didn't really consider that I would be holding on to one for the rest of my life. But as soon as I could have it in my hands, seemingly it was there and I treated it as my teddy.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

And.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, instruments. It's funny because we're not from an instrument family, but my parents were always very. They were like, I see that they have rhythm in them. So they gave us instruments to play, but they never forced us to do anything either. And then when I was like 18 months old, I fell under a lawnmower and I lost all my fingers. And I do remember very early two things about being in the hospital, which I think is just shock related. And the other thing was being annoyed that I couldn't play because my hand was sore. And so they're my earliest memories, which is like music and something to do with pain and music and yearning for music. So it's kind of never left me, just this yearn, to need music around me and in me and what have you.

[Anna Bullbrook]

How has that kind of foundational experience shaped your drive to play now?

[Wallace Bird]

It's changed over the years, I have to say. Like in the last two years, I have an unbelievable new love for music. I wrote my last record about loss and grieving and when I felt like I couldn't actually face being creative, that's when it came to me. That's when it came to me as a necessity of healing. And that's when I regained my. Oh my God. That's what music is for. Because I suppose for a long time I had been just enjoying being a workhorse to the craft and like trying to get better all the time and stuff like that. And I was just on a train. But then in the last two years, it was like it was gifted. Re. Gifted to me as a new person almost. So I'm back on. Wow. Back on this gorgeous new track with it now. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Describe this gorgeous new track. Is it like new space? Like, what is the texture of this new track?

[Wallace Bird]

It's people. It's other people. It's this Idea of not being shy in a room to play music or taking my guitar with me to somewhere to instigate something. I used to be afraid to instigate something because I was embarrassed. I didn't want to be singled out in a room. And there's just this idea of like, well, an artist's duty is to create culture and to create moments worth living, I suppose. But a day is long and we can go a long time without feeling happy to be around each other or enjoying music. And music brings a lot of free and easy enjoyment and like, no pressure enjoyment. And I think I'm back on that track now.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah, you said you don't want to instigate things, but you are also a bit of an activist.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, a little bit. I suppose I'm an activist in so much as that. I like to resolve conflict, I think, and I'm okay to be in there and taking shots for people in that way, for activism. So queer activism is my thing. Refugee migrants and anti racism activism. It's not even activism. It's just like, I don't know, trying to do the best I can, really. Yeah. There's one moment, specifically in one of the songs, it's called as the River Flows, where there's a sentence I just keep repeating and I keep singing louder and louder until I don't have any voice left.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

So it goes, overcoming mystery, overcoming mystery, overcoming mystery, overcoming mystery, over.

[Wallace Bird]

And it keeps going up and up and up until I don't. And. And then I always push it even one more further every time. Because it's about refugees traveling, crossing the Mediterranean and gripping onto life and losing their breath and trying to breathe. It's not the most pleasant thing, but it's actually celebrating those who lived. You know, I think that kind of sums up my whole criteria as an artist, you know, just very critical of the fact that geography is just literally where you happen to be born. And I just think that we should have equitable chance in this world. Humanitarian law is extremely important to me because I know that not everybody follows it, but there's part of me that kind of just wants to celebrate when it is kept in check. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

And is this a song that you wanted to be this directly political question?

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, it's sideways political. A lot of my stuff is sideways political just because I think existing on this planet is political. Everything we are close. As close to a blade of grass as we are to, you know, I mean, the future of AI or whatever it's all related to.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

Okay. This next song is brilliant. It's called as the River Flows and it's in support of migrants and refugees and in defiance of racism. And as the river flows While you

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

and I are made of water Surging into history Universal mystery All in all we cannot choose the life that we were given so we move across the land to sky, to sea Looking for more than we were offered Are we not allowed? Are you still where your mother pushed you out? I doubt that this is true if you can move, then I will too. To the land, to the sea to safety to safety, to safety to the land, to the mouth of the sea to the land, to the sea to safety, to safety, to safety Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery oh, what are you scared of? Aren't you brave enough to pave a basic decency for humankind? A baby lost its family, lost its life don't turn your face away don't tell me borders are for jobs and civic order When I know you see it differently. You want your palette white? You want it clean? Walk a mile walk 2000 miles walk 3000 miles to to the land, to the sea to safety to safety to safety Overcoming mystery to safety, to safety to safety Overcoming mystery. Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery Overcoming this mystery Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery Overcoming mystery. To say to safety to safety Just safety To say to safety Just safety Just safety to say to safety to to safety Just safety Just safety Just safety

[Elise Hu]

this episode is brought to you by Gusto. For a lot of small business owners, the challenge isn't just growing the business. It's everything that comes with it. Hiring, payroll benefits. The work that happens behind the scenes, but still takes real time and energy. That's where Gusto makes a difference. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. With built in automated tools, your team spends less time on paperwork and more time focused on growth. And Gusto has options for nearly every budget you get. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. Getting started is easy. Transfer your existing data and get up and running quickly. Try gusto [e-mail] TED talks and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] TEDTalks one more time gusto.com TEDTalks

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[Anna Bullbrook]

Your new album's been described as having the courage not to look away. So how do you. How do you stay looking at what's wrong or looking at what needs fixing over time?

[Wallace Bird]

That's a lovely question. I think with the last record, it's about grieving and loss, death specifically. So singular person and then a vast amount of people dying at the same time, which is really, really hard to deal with mentally. So I kind of came at it from the position of looking at singular souls and the worth of humanity and how that looks in the social conscious at the moment, in the modern times, in our generation and the steps that took us to get to cruelties that we. That we have and we bestow onto others, unfortunately. And I think just looking at grief and the absurdity and the weirdness and the kind of unanswerableness of it, I started to turn to space and to ghosts and listening to space, like physical

[Anna Bullbrook]

space or space, like outer space.

[Wallace Bird]

Outer space or the spiritual world, I suppose, the cosmos. And that really helps because then you begin to listen to the messages of the. I began to listen to the messages of the world. And, I mean, they might not be right, but I'm still figuring it out. But I found that once you open that gate to the other side, then there's a lot of answers to who I am and what I think about humanity. And I don't know. There's no answer to it. I'm just trying the best that I can to be open and not be a bollocks.

[Anna Bullbrook]

I think that's a noble. That's a noble pursuit. I feel like there's a link between receiving messages from the universe and songwriting, especially for you. So let's talk about that experience of songwriting. Can you talk a little bit about finding what the song wants?

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, that's lovely way to put it. That's a lovely way. Because I consider my songs my friends. So I have a listen to what they're telling me. And I constantly checking in. I always try and give it a lot of respect and a lot of time. So I. I spend a lot of time trying to engage and be open, to allow whatever is to come to pass through me. And then eventually, just by way of craft, by writing multiple times or singing things repetitiously, like for a half an hour, sing the same line and see how it fits. Or just paying attention to it. And then I imagine it as a person or as a feeling or as an emotion. Really visualize my lyrics as landscapes or spaces, reflective textiles. I really try and visualize a meaning of a song or.

[Anna Bullbrook]

You said you envision your lyrics. Yeah. Tell me more about that.

[Wallace Bird]

Colors, feelings, smells, time, future, past. I'd like to think that I can envisage new things, but I'm actually not very good at it. So I take what I know about, what I really enjoy about, like, architecture or, you know, looking at this backdrop. The material is a beautiful paper. So when I think of that, I imagine, does the brown color affect the sound of the paper? What does it sound like? How could I describe what it sounds like? And that really helps me to describe the language of my emotion in visual and aural triggers, I suppose. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Do you ever have to give in to what the song wants? And I'm saying this a little bit of a wink, because you've mentioned resisting certain lyrics or certain callings from songs. So, you know, do you ever have to bend to the will of the song or resent the song for what

[Wallace Bird]

it wants to be?

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

And I learned very quickly not to. Not to resent anything that I ever write. Cause I remember I was two albums in, I was in my second album, and I started to say over the microphone, I'm not really into this song. And it's almost like casting a curse on the song. So that's when I decided from then on, I said I have to love what I'm doing because I'd probably be singing this for the rest of my life. And you also don't know who's listening. And I specifically write for kids in mind. I want them to feel like they can understand it. And I also think kids are, like, the greatest critique of your music. If they get it, then you're okay. But I don't say no to much ideas. True story. Yeah, true story.

[Anna Bullbrook]

You have to do what the song wants, and then you better love it.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of crafting goes in, and you have to. Because there's stuff. I'm constantly thinking about the future. And I really want to think in a solutionist way. I want to think that there's beauty in this world. I'm very aware of the pessimism and the Bad things in this world. And so I'm choosing my lot, which is to be kind of, I'd like to die on stage, and people to feel like I tried to be warm and inviting and never damning anything and hoping for a nicer future or something like that.

[Anna Bullbrook]

I feel like there's a. Like, a moral quandary in songwriting, using real experiences to turn into songs that become pieces of art that go out in the world, but also, if it's really about a person or, you know.

[Wallace Bird]

How about you? Did you write about people or experiences or.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Well, in my experience, there's always a kernel of truth or a few kernels of truth and some real experiences in mind. And then when you're crafting something, to me, that's where almost like, the objectivity takes over. Like, the objectivity. If I'm making a song and the song wants this, and it's not specifically about any of these particular things, but they're all feeding into this cohesive piece of creativity. It could be fictional or only partly fictional.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Okay.

[Anna Bullbrook]

But it become, like, the thing that it becomes becomes real. And that's. That's a real feeling and a real transmission. But it doesn't mean that because I wrote a song about Wallace and how we had a chat that then this song equals Wallace. Right. Or this equals the content of our experience as people together or something like that.

[Wallace Bird]

So it's, like, real but transitionary or something.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah, it's like. I mean, it's. It's fiction, ultimately. It's a construction.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Right.

[Anna Bullbrook]

You know, it's a story based on a story that you told yourself about something that happened.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

You know, what do you think about that sentence? Words are spells.

[Anna Bullbrook]

I believe it.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

In a way.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

But maybe I would say words are stories.

[Wallace Bird]

Words are stories. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Because I don't think. I think they have some influence, but I don't think that they have power necessarily.

[Wallace Bird]

Mm. Okay. This is a lovely interview, by the way. I would like to invite my lovely partner on stage for this. Tracy Kay. Please come on stage. This one is for your heart. Well, I'll tell you the truth

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

As I only do, my friend

[Wallace Bird]

I'll be

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

living my youth As I live till

[Wallace Bird]

my end, my friend

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

I've been battered and bruised but it's only a few that have stayed all the time and that's nothing a hammer, a nail or my mind couldn't cure But I've left people hang on a stick or a word if their grip grew tight O the battles, the battles, the bears that I'VE shared are all mine

[Elise Hu]

the more

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

you hold on to me the less you can have of me the more you hold on to me the less I am yours to keep. Yeah the more you hold on to me I'll try not to leave Peace

[Wallace Bird]

on earth thank you so much. So that last song that I just played is called Indictum and it's a. It's a. Also a ballad that I wrote from when I was 30 years old. Before I turned 30, I had quite the ego and I was like, no way. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. And was that sarcasm? I can't tell. I left it open.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah. So I just turned 30 and I'm 43 now. So it's been really interesting revisiting this song and looking over it. It's about self protection and somebody offering you something that you don't want. And it could be the make or break of your relationship because I really loved this person and I didn't want them to go anywhere, but I needed their love to change and so that was a very big learning curve for me. And it's always interesting to sing about it because you have to distance yourself from those lyrics, but you also have to give them a good duty to serve them correctly and stuff. But actually now the way I feel the song is based on the emotion and the curvature of how it was written. So it's kind of one of those ballads that also stood with me and stood the test of time and people asked me to sing that. And I just love when people sing along with that song because community and gathering people to sing that's my bag.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Really, you say you have to distance yourself from the lyrics. Is it sort of like applying a layer of objectivity to this really subjective experience that you're turning into a song or that's becoming a song or is it. What's that distancing? Or is it just like you're not in that emotional moment in the same way?

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, there's definitely that. You know, I don't feel that. But then sometimes when you're singing it, you get the exact feeling. It's like you get a smell and then you're brought right back in time and it's gut wrenching. So there's those things like the protection of how do you continue on and so you just allow the emotion to happen and then go through it. But the distancing, I think, is to embody what the song means to me and do it correctly, but also not because it is a bit of an awkward song. I don't Want the person to feel slammed across the side of the head every time they hear me sing it.

[Anna Bullbrook]

I want to ask a little bit of a more abstract question. How do you listen to music?

[Wallace Bird]

Ah, with great gusto. I love music. Do you know what I love about listening to music? Music is sometimes I absolutely don't understand it whatsoever. And then I'm like, is this an age thing? Is this a geographical thing? But no, I do. You know, when people say I listen to anything, I literally listen to anything. But how do I listen to it? Just I suppose I'm all ears. I'm all ears. And I don't like to look at it critically. I like to understand where things come from or the workings of it. I prefer to celebrate listening rather than being like, why do they. You know, what, what's the story? I don't like to be critical. I like to be encouragingly listen to music.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah. How do you listen to the world?

[Wallace Bird]

I won't lie. I do a lot of scrolling. I do a lot of scrolling. I listen to a lot of movies. I have them on headphones when I take walks because I like listening to how movies are made just by sound. I like to take a couple of senses out of things because it's a multifaceted art or whatever. So how do I listen to the world? I don't know what I'm listening for, but I'm definitely listening. I'm trying to pay attention. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

How do you carve out space to create? Do you carve out space?

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah. And I do. Yeah. And it'll happen to me in the most random places. Like I'll be standing cuen at the counter in a shop, and then the most symphonic, beautiful idea might come along. And then you're like, okay, trying to have a conversation with somebody and. And listen to this song going on in your head. You know, when I was a kid, I grew up with seven kids. I was number six of seven. And finally the only place that I could get a moment's peace and make music and sing and play the guitar was alone in the toilet. So I don't know. There's something about small spaces. I love small spaces and going into places with zero light and being a little worm, I guess. But generally I have music going on all the time because my lifestyle is so movement all the time. So I just. I'm kind of a receptor.

[Anna Bullbrook]

If you're okay with it. Can we do a couple of lightning questions? Yeah. Wallace. Morning person or night owl? And why?

[Wallace Bird]

I used to be a night owl. Morning person now, probably because I don't drink anymore.

[Anna Bullbrook]

What's a hill you would die on?

[Wallace Bird]

I will fight people if they're not nice to people. Like encouragement. I love encouragement. I think encouragement makes people go really far and kind of subduing people does not. Or being the boss of people. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

What's the last time you laughed so hard you cried?

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Well.

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, my God. I'm often doing this, actually. Oh, my God. Do I need a specific time? I'm always laughing until I'm crying. I'm always very close to tears, actually.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Oh, yeah, me too.

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah. School days now.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah. If you had a superpower, what would it be?

[Wallace Bird]

Flying. Why not? I'm a bird. Be amazing.

[Anna Bullbrook]

What's your current theme song?

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, dig it. Do, do, do, do a little Got the best of my love I swear to God, every morning for the last year, nearly every morning, I'm like, put it straight on. I don't know.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

What's the best advice you've ever ignored?

[Wallace Bird]

When I started off in the industry, I took the advice of others that wanted to dress and clothe me, and then I did it and I looked like and felt like somebody completely different. So I ignored people telling me to be something different. Yeah.

[Anna Bullbrook]

What's one small gratitude that you have in your life right now?

[Wallace Bird]

Well, being here, it's no small gratitude. Everything's actually a quite large gratitude. I have a beautiful meal in my belly, I'm meeting incredible people, and I'm here at the far side of the Northern hemisphere doing something which I've followed for most of my adult life. I kissed a red carpet yesterday.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah. Was it a circle?

[Wallace Bird]

Yeah, it was just a random red carpet. Just going around kissing random red.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Yeah. Yeah. If you find a red circle, just kiss it. Exactly. That's advice from Wallace Bird. Thank you so much for sitting down with us, Wallace. And it's been a pleasure sharing your bright million watt light bulb with us.

[Wallace Bird]

Oh, my God. What a pleasure than much for having me.

[Anna Bullbrook]

Now we can make all the noise.

[Wallace Bird (singing)]

Oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love to my bones oh, life, I love it to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones oh, life, I love you to my bones. Oh, life, I love you to my bones.

[Wallace Bird]

Thanks very much.

[Elise Hu]

That was Wallace Bird at TED 2026 and in conversation with Anna Bullbrook. This interview was recorded in April of 2026. If you're curious about Ted's curation guidelines, visit Ted.comCurationGuidelines and that's it for today. TED Talks Daily is a podcast from ted. This episode was produced by Lucy Little and edited by Alejandra Salazar. Additional support from Maggie Bishop. This episode was mixed by Lucy Little and the interview was recorded in Vancouver by Dave Pulmer and Rich Amos of Field Trip. The TED Talks Daily team includes Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Lucy Little, Emma Tobner, and Tansika Sangmarnivong. Additional support from Daniela Ballarazo, Valentina Bohanini, Banban Chang, Brian Greene and Lainey Lott. Learn [e-mail] I am Elise Hu. I will be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feet. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by McDonald's. For a limited time, you can try McDonald's new Caesar Snack Wrap for just under $3. It has that creamy garlicky Caesar flavor with crispy chicken wrapped up and ready to go. Add in a Diet Coke and honestly, that might just be my new go to order. And sure, McCrispy strips with Caesar Caesar sauce are an obvious combination, but it got me thinking. What else at McDonald's deserves a little Caesar? Fries, nuggets, maybe even a burger? Now's your chance to find out. Try the new Caesar Snack Wrap and Caesar Sauce available for a limited time at participating McDonald's. Prices and participation may vary. This episode is sponsored by Kohler Smart Toilets. The objects we interact with most are often the ones we notice least. But what if the most overlooked space in your home could be the most considered? Kohler Smart Toilet challenges that assumption. Their Vail Smart Toilet is a sculptural silhouette that isn't just intentional, it's a philosophy that design changes everything. The Kohler Vail Smart Toilet is sleek with a rounded shape that's more like architecture than just plumbing. And it goes beyond looks. The touchscreen controls and customizable cleansing features offer a level of comfort and cleanliness that exceeds expectations. It's all about elevating those ordinary daily rituals into something extraordinary through thoughtful design. Kohler has been pushing these boundaries for over 150 years, mastering that balance of stunning form and high performance function. That's a long time to get it right, and it shows in every detail. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find out [e-mail]

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