“Every conversation has the potential to open up and reveal all the layers and layers within it, all those rooms within rooms," says musician and host of the beloved podcast Song Exploder, Hrishikesh Hirway. In this profoundly moving talk from 2022, he offers a guide to deep conversations and explores what you learn when you take that same kind of close listening we often give to music, and turn it toward people.

A lot has changed for Hrishikesh since this popular talk was released, and after more than a decade helping other artists tell their stories and helping us think about listening in new ways, he's got a new solo album that just came out, called In the Last Hour of Light, which he describes as a memoir of sorts. Elise Hu, host of TED Talks Daily, caught up with him earlier this month to talk about his new album, how his ideas about listening have evolved since his talk, and what his own creative process looks like today. They also do a mini Song Exploder of sorts to take a peak into Hrishikesh's own songwriting process, breaking down one of the new songs on this album, "Things Change, Even Now," (co-written with Vagabon), which is shared in full at the end of the episode.

This episode originally aired in 2022. The interview was recorded in April 2026.

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