Loading summary
Transcript179 lines
- [00:00]
McDonald's Announcer
We heard you. Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the Hot Honey snack wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.
- [00:17]
Stassi Schroeder
Hello and welcome back to Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast. I'm your host, Stassi Schroeder. So each week we're gonna be breaking down episodes, sharing behind the scenes stories, playing games, and yes, we are still sipping tea, right? With the cast and crew of season three of Tell Me Lies, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. This week, Tell Me Lies showrunner Megan Oppenheimer is here back on the podcast to talk about that crazy season finale. Okay, so if you haven't seen it yet, what is wrong with you? Okay, stop what you're doing. Don't watch the rest of this until you've watched it. Go watch the finale and come back. But here's a recap if you have watched it. First we find out Brie and Wrigley hooked up at her engagement party. But back in 2009, Lucy and Diana have a heart to heart about Diana finally believing that Lucy was right about Stephen's involvement in Macy's death, Lucy is ready to take him down. So she storms into that Yale Law new student orientation event, corners the Baird alum and warns her that Stephen is dangerous. Obviously, Steven is livid and he acts on it. Pippa, emotionally drained, tells Lucy about cheating on Wrigley. Lucy, thinking this was like a safe space, tells her about her and Evan. Pippa immediately explains the difference in mistakes. She heads to Wrigley's to tell him the whole truth. He is once again an absolute king about it.
- [01:55]
Megan Oppenheimer
I think I'm gay. You're not mad? No, I'm not mad.
- [02:05]
Stassi Schroeder
It's okay. All of a sudden, Lucy sees her confession tape in the wild. Fucking Steven. But then he denies it. And Lucy heads to Alex's, but Bree is already in there seeking shelter and she isn't let in. Pippa fills in Bree on the lie. They're both mad at Lucy, but are still concerned when they can't get into her room. Before everyone knows it, Lucy is being expelled. Evan admits to Bree that it was Lucy when she asks, and she still decides to be with him. Steven's acceptance to Yale is revoked. I mean, finally, we all wanted that. Brie retreats to her room to flush a flash drive. And now we're at the final scene of the wedding. And please sit down if you are Standing. A rabid Steven tells Lydia that he and Lucy slept together that day, and she causes a scene while exiting. Then Steven gets under Bree's skin by telling her he knows about her and Wrigley and finally figures out she's the one who released the tape. So instead of admitting defeat, Steven reads everyone to filth in the most Shakespearean fashion. And he still manages to use this to get Lucy to leave with him.
- [03:20]
Podcast Guest or Caller
I'm in physical danger if I don't get out of here, like, right now. So I'm gonna pull the car out front. You coming with me?
- [03:26]
Megan Oppenheimer
You've gotta be fucking kidding me.
- [03:28]
Stassi Schroeder
Before leaving her. Like, I'm not joking. At a fucking gas station. I'm pretty much forever. She's stranded at a gas station. It's diabolic. What drew you most to this story? Like, what made you want to adapt this book?
- [03:50]
Megan Oppenheimer
When I read the book, I was really taken by. This might sound weird, but how humiliating the character of Lucy is. And I thought the author was incredibly brave letting her just be this humiliating character who humiliates herself for this relationship. I thought that was so real. And I think we always see shows with, like, complicated leads, but they're always very cool still. And you want. And Lucy's not. Lucy's fucking humiliating.
- [04:19]
Stassi Schroeder
No, Lucy's not cool.
- [04:20]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. And I think that in our worst relationships, for me at least, humiliation has been a big feeling. And I think other people that I know feel that way. And I also just think it's so universal. You know, it's the one thing we've really not figured out how to do is love each other. Well, without traumatizing each other.
- [04:43]
Stassi Schroeder
No, I relate to the humiliating aspect of that on such a profound level. Especially because it was all on, like, reality tv, so people could just watch how embarrassing I was. And it's just like, oh, my God, I feel so seen watching Tell me lies. Even though it's like, I don't think. No, I.
- [05:06]
Advertisement Voice
You know what?
- [05:06]
Megan Oppenheimer
I'm gonna be honest.
- [05:07]
Stassi Schroeder
I went through times where I was a Lucy. I like to think of myself now as a Diana.
- [05:11]
Megan Oppenheimer
I think you're. You make much smarter choices. You're. You're a better schemer and planner. And I mean, that is the nuts compliment.
- [05:19]
Stassi Schroeder
Thank you.
- [05:19]
Megan Oppenheimer
You are. You're smarter than Loosey. Thank you. Yeah, I would say you're more of a Diana, you know? I do. No, I think that I get to hear you say. No, I do. No, you're. I get to hear you say it. I think you would be a Worthy opponent for Steven. And I don't think Lucy is. And again, that's a compliment.
- [05:35]
Stassi Schroeder
Pack it up. Pack it up. No, let's just go home. Because I got what I needed from. Thank you. That really does mean a lot to me. Oh, good.
- [05:44]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean it. I really mean it.
- [05:45]
Stassi Schroeder
Well, what did you want to say about, like, love and relationships through doing this show? Like, what did you want to convey?
- [05:54]
Megan Oppenheimer
You know, I'm never trying to impart a certain lesson on anything or teach anyone anything. Cause I don't like when I'm reading or watching things. And I feel like the writer is trying to tell me something very specific. For me, it's more just exploring things that I'm interested in, you know, and things that I think are really true and honest and going to places that scare me. As soon as I'm bored, I'm like, the audience is gonna be bored. You know what I mean? But I did with this season specifically. I really do think that this idea of just cut your losses when you're in a relationship with someone like this or in any bad relationship, I think there's this feeling that I've certainly had in the past and friends of mine of, like, I've put so much into it. I've put so much energy into it. It can't all be a waste. And it's like, no, no, no. Anything else, it's like, it's a waste. But, like, cut it out now. You're not gonna. You're not going to win with someone like this. And you just have to accept the loss, accept that it sucked, accept that you were embarrassed, and leave without trying to have the last word or a victory. Because there are certain people that that's never going to happen with. And Steven is one of those people.
- [07:13]
Stassi Schroeder
You know, more therapists need to tell people that.
- [07:17]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah.
- [07:17]
Stassi Schroeder
I don't think, you know, you say it as if we all have that knowledge and wisdom, but I think that's very specific to you. Like, you. You should tell more people that. I think the people, we all need help. Not me.
- [07:31]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean, I've learned it the hard way. Yeah.
- [07:35]
Stassi Schroeder
Well, I did want to ask you if, like, I mean, a lot of the things on this show are so fucking diabolical that I'm like, is she drawing from personal experience right now?
- [07:46]
Megan Oppenheimer
Sometimes, yeah.
- [07:47]
Stassi Schroeder
Like, can you name one?
- [07:52]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean, Steven is definitely inspired by two people, and they know who they fucking are. I mean, one instance that was definitely in season two at the bar with Oliver and Brie. That situation where Oliver is Sort of like throwing it in the bartender's face that he's with this very young girl. I had an experience very similar to that when I was much too young to be hanging out with a certain person. And I remember that moment being like, I don't know if this is a good guy. And I feel like he might do this with other young girls. And it's sort of in the season. We wanted it to be kind of the turning point. We were like, oh, this guy's kind of creepy. But that was season two. Yeah. I mean, there's so many moments that feel the bucket of piss out. No, not to me. That happened on one of our writers. That happened on their college campus to a girl who accused someone of assault.
- [08:55]
Stassi Schroeder
That's wild.
- [08:55]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [08:57]
Stassi Schroeder
When you look back at, like, these past three seasons, who is your favorite couple?
- [09:04]
Megan Oppenheimer
They all have moments where I love them. I think all of us, while making season three, felt like Brie and Wrigley were just this incredible source of light. And I loved that I cried in the. I never cry in the edit. Cause I'm so fucking numb to everything. But I cried when we were cutting every single one of their scenes. And I'm so happy with how that story turned out. And I was so happy to give Brie some light because she had such a dark season last year. Yeah, I love that couple. I really do. I think they make it work.
- [09:44]
Stassi Schroeder
Which couple, when you look back at everything, breaks your heart the most?
- [09:50]
Megan Oppenheimer
I felt like the Alex and Lucy dynamic this season was incredibly visceral and a very devastating gut punch because we've had a lot of sexual violence towards women on the show. And this is the first time we'd really explored it with a male character. And I think not enough shows do that. I haven't seen that enough on shows. Certainly not YA shows. You know, if you consider this a YA show. But also both of those actors, Grace and Costa, are so wildly emotionally available that when we shot those scenes, it just kind of poured out of them. And it was like this brutal dance that was very hard to shake off at the end of the day. But also what was interesting was that that relationship. It's the first time Lucy has a relationship on the show where she says from the beginning, and she means it, that this is just sex. It's not. She doesn't want him to be a boyfriend. And she means that. So their relationship is technically just about sex, but their sex is about so much other shit.
- [10:54]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [10:55]
Megan Oppenheimer
In a way that I think was very, very special. And I'll be interested to see how people react to those scenes.
- [11:01]
Stassi Schroeder
Do you, like, have this board in your house? Like, you know, like a crime board with all of the characters, secrets, things that have happened with, like, little ties to them? Like, how do you keep track of all of the little things? Because there are no plot holes. There are, like, none of that. Like, how do you keep that all straight?
- [11:27]
Megan Oppenheimer
So we have this amazing thing called Writers Room Pro, which is a program that they developed during the pandemic because all the writers rooms moved to zoom. It's like a digital board, and you can click on one character and have a whole other board just for them. You can have a board for just this one relationship. So it's all stored there. I can never go back to a normal whiteboard. I just will never be able to do that.
- [11:51]
Stassi Schroeder
That's what y' all used to do. Whiteboards.
- [11:53]
Megan Oppenheimer
Whiteboards. Oh, yeah. And you'd have someone write it out, and it was crazy. Wow.
- [11:59]
Stassi Schroeder
Just learn something new. That's amazing. Are there any, like, throughout the show, like, symbols, like, or settings or, you know, environments, or just, like, little things that hold a special meaning to you?
- [12:13]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah, I mean, obviously, we've returned to a lot of the same sets. I would say that we use music in a very kind of symbolic way. I've sort of figured out that part of the language of our. The musical language of our show are these escalated callbacks where we'll use a song in a very specific moment, and then we'll bring that song back and create a new cover of that song. And that's been really fun to do. We obviously were doing such great heights. Yeah, we used that in season one when they're sitting alone in these trash bags, and it was sort of cementing them as this island of toxicity. And we use it again at the end of the show. And Churches did this incredible cover. And it's amazing, but it's this callback to that moment. But now it's Lucy on her own island of, like, fuck. I followed this man out into the middle of the sea and now I'm gonna drown.
- [13:06]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [13:06]
Megan Oppenheimer
We also had this thing this year with. Do you know the story of, like, the scorpion and the frog at all?
- [13:12]
Stassi Schroeder
No. Do tell.
- [13:13]
Megan Oppenheimer
I know it sounds to say, but.
- [13:14]
Stassi Schroeder
We use this song.
- [13:16]
Megan Oppenheimer
I use this for the whole season. It's this idea. There's a scorpion and a frog on the side of a river. And the scorpion is like, can you please carry me on your back across the river? Cause I can't swim. Cause I'm a scorpion. And the frog's like, no, you're gonna sting me and I'm gonna die. And he's like, why would I do that? If I sting you, we're both gonna drown. And he's like, yeah, good point. So he carries him across. Halfway through, the scorpion stings him. They both start to drown. And the frog's like, why did you do this? Now we're both going to die, and.
- [13:45]
Stassi Schroeder
He'S gonna die anyway.
- [13:46]
Megan Oppenheimer
No, he says, I'm a scorpion. And so the idea. It's like, you are who you are. So we used. We kind of put little scorpions throughout this season in very subtle places. Just as, like, a little fun thing, because Steven's. It's like, what do you think he's gonna do? He's Steven.
- [14:04]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [14:04]
Megan Oppenheimer
He's, you know, even if it fucks up his own life, he's just going to need to win.
- [14:10]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah. Megan. Before I watched season three, I was like, you know what? I think that he might be a little misunderstood. There's something we don't know. And then I'm like, no, you were wrong. He's a fucking monster. He's a scorpion. Yeah.
- [14:26]
Megan Oppenheimer
It was funny because Jackson had that same realization. He texted me one day, and he was like, steven's a bad guy. He'd gotten to like episode four.
- [14:33]
Stassi Schroeder
But, like, he really, like, that character is the worst.
- [14:37]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the thing about Steven is that he's funny, and so you kind of forgive him for doing things until it's happening to you. And I think that's a lot of these people who are, you know, emotionally abusive are. They can be very funny because they don't give a fuck, and they have these inflated delusions of grandeur and all these things. And, yeah, they can be tricky people.
- [15:06]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay, well, speaking of characters, then, which character do you think amongst the crew had the biggest story arc or had the most change throughout the series?
- [15:19]
Megan Oppenheimer
Wrigley, I think, for sure.
- [15:20]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay, can we just, like, have a moment to worship Wrigley?
- [15:22]
Megan Oppenheimer
I know.
- [15:23]
Stassi Schroeder
Like, at first. First season, I'm like, you're kind of annoying. Like, you're annoying. Get it together, bro. Like, get it together. By the end of the season three, I'm like, I know.
- [15:34]
Megan Oppenheimer
Should I.
- [15:35]
Stassi Schroeder
Should I set Wrigley up with someone? I know? Like, Wrigley is the best. He's now become my favorite.
- [15:40]
Megan Oppenheimer
The best. I love Wrigley. It was funny because Spencer's so smart and he's such a great guy, and he gave this interview after Season two, that was like, you know, my character's always. I can't remember exactly what he said, but he was like, my character's always like failing and blah, blah, blah. And I wish he could have a win sometimes, but, you know, I've seen how he is in the future, so I know that doesn't happen. And I was like, I'm gonna give you a fucking win. I'm gonna give you a win. And honestly though, that character could have been very one dimensional. But Spencer brought so much heart to it that we started to write him more that way. Because Spencer has this like, you can see everything underneath, like the layer of skin, you know, you see every emotion. And he was such a joy to write for. I love that character.
- [16:38]
Advertisement Voice
This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started@redfin.com. own the dream.
- [17:06]
Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth Bird budget secured. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.
- [17:39]
Stassi Schroeder
So I know you say Steven's a scorpion word. Understand that? So it feels weird to ask this question because it's like, of course there's a villain. There's multiple. If you had to pick one character that was the villain of season three, would it be Steven?
- [17:57]
Megan Oppenheimer
Technically, yes. But I would say that you expect it from him because he doesn't know any better.
- [18:04]
Stassi Schroeder
That's also a cop out. I'm so, so sick of people when, like people keep doing shitty things to people and they're like, well, that's just like how he is. Like, that's his thing.
- [18:12]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah, no, it's bad.
- [18:13]
Stassi Schroeder
That's not an excuse.
- [18:14]
Megan Oppenheimer
But I think that Evan was more disappointing because Evan knows better. And Evan. I thought Evan did some really pretty terrible things this season. But he. Steven's the villain, though. Steven is the. You know. But in general, it's Oliver, Evan, Steven. Those are the bad guys.
- [18:32]
Stassi Schroeder
I would say Oliver fucking sucks. And I'm sorry. That scene with Marianne, at first I was like, the one with her and Brie at the house.
- [18:41]
Megan Oppenheimer
Oh, yeah.
- [18:41]
Stassi Schroeder
I was like, I love this. Oh, my gosh. This is such a moment of, like, you never see this. And then for her to turn on Brie.
- [18:50]
Megan Oppenheimer
I know.
- [18:51]
Stassi Schroeder
No. Where's that actress? I need to go knock on her door.
- [18:55]
Megan Oppenheimer
Gabriella is amazing. She's like an Italian movie star. We got so lucky to have her in the show. But a lot of people wanted me to cut that scene in the boardroom where they all confront her. And I was like, this is a fucking nightmare.
- [19:09]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Megan Oppenheimer
If we're driving her to release that tape, she needs to have been driven to a crazy place. And. Yeah, I know. I laugh so hard. When she walks in and you see those three characters, it's like, oh, no, I love that scene. And Oliver sucks.
- [19:25]
Stassi Schroeder
Do you and your friends all sit around and talk about the show the way that the rest of us do?
- [19:30]
Megan Oppenheimer
They definitely will freak out to me about it. And it's very funny and very cute. What happens more is that people, when they find out that I write this show, will come to me and start asking me dating advice and love, and I'm like, why? Have you watched. Why would you ask me? I'm psychotic. Yeah. That's why I've written this show. You know, like, that's like asking me.
- [19:53]
Stassi Schroeder
When I was 25.
- [19:53]
Megan Oppenheimer
That's crazy. If you ask, I'm gonna. If you ask me for dating advice, I'm gonna be like, you need to get a black skull candle. You need to get, like, a bag of his semen, and you need to light it on fire, you know? But I'm just kidding. That's not actually my advice. But, you know, but it's so fun, people. So I know this guy and blah, blah, blah. But the answer is always like, no, it's a bad guy. Move on. That's always the answer. If you have to ask, it's like, no, he's. He's not nice.
- [20:15]
Stassi Schroeder
You don't have a group chat with, like, your best friends.
- [20:17]
Megan Oppenheimer
I have a group chat with, like, the writers.
- [20:19]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [20:21]
Megan Oppenheimer
And that's very fun. And I'm. Yeah, we're always, like, sending each other the memes. The tiktoks are very funny.
- [20:27]
Stassi Schroeder
What was the most fun episode to create and make and build out? Just like with everyone.
- [20:35]
Megan Oppenheimer
This season? Definitely the finale. That wedding sequence, we were building to it the whole season. And we kind of. We had all this anxiety about it because you have three cakes, you've got a few of the wedding dresses, and you. You can't fuck it up more than, like, once, maybe. And we went into the space and we choreographed it with our director, Tyne, like a dance. And we were also, like, filming in this hotel all week. And it was just. It was really fun. It was really, really fun. And everyone, I thought, did a great job. We couldn't believe how well it went.
- [21:13]
Stassi Schroeder
One take?
- [21:14]
Megan Oppenheimer
No.
- [21:14]
Stassi Schroeder
How many did you go through?
- [21:16]
Megan Oppenheimer
We ended up only going through two cakes. Okay. Yeah. So we did the first cake Death with a stunt double. And then Brandon wanted to do the one and he hurt his leg a little bit.
- [21:29]
Stassi Schroeder
He's okay.
- [21:30]
Megan Oppenheimer
But, like, he definitely. He was, like, walking funny the next day, I'm sure. But he did the second one and we were like, we got it, so let's just keep going. Yeah, that was really funny. I have a lot of videos of that on my phone.
- [21:42]
Stassi Schroeder
What was the most memorable production day? That one.
- [21:46]
Megan Oppenheimer
I would say that one. I mean, doing slap shots, season two was pretty memorable because they're all sitting around slapping each other, and they weren't allowed to really slap each other. And then Molly. Catherine, who plays Molly, she's with Brandon in real life. They're a couple. Yeah. And that's not secret.
- [22:03]
Stassi Schroeder
But I didn't know that.
- [22:04]
Megan Oppenheimer
And so she actually slapped him. And it was so funny. But I wasn't supposed to laugh. Everyone was like, that can't happen. That can't happen. And I had to pretend to be like, guys don't do that. But I was, like, laughing, it was so funny. They got scolded. And then it was like just, you know, fake slapping after that. But it was really good.
- [22:24]
Stassi Schroeder
You know what? They're in a relationship, they're.
- [22:26]
Megan Oppenheimer
He knew it was coming. He knew it was coming. It was so funny. Yeah. That was a good day. That was a good day.
- [22:31]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay, who makes up? I need you to explain the titles of every episode because I've realized that I've spent now three seasons being like, oh, I know what this is going to mean. And I. It's never anything that I know it's going to mean.
- [22:45]
Megan Oppenheimer
Right.
- [22:45]
Stassi Schroeder
Like, who comes up with them?
- [22:47]
Megan Oppenheimer
What do they mean? I do. I pick them up. I always use, like, a song lyric. It's always, like, a piece of a song or a title of a song or an album. And usually the song will have something kind of related to something in the episode. Sometimes it's just the lyric is really spot on for this episode. Like, I'm gonna. I wanna hold her head underwater. You know, that's the swimming episode. Yeah. And I'll have the writers, like, text me so. Ideas for it. But, yeah, I've.
- [23:21]
Stassi Schroeder
Did everyone else know and that they were song lyrics?
- [23:23]
Megan Oppenheimer
No. A lot of people don't realize.
- [23:24]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay.
- [23:25]
Megan Oppenheimer
A lot of people don't realize. Yes. No, I promise. That makes me feel better, though. A lot of people don't realize.
- [23:30]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay. So how far in advance did you know the way this season was going to end?
- [23:36]
Megan Oppenheimer
I didn't know the specifics until I would say, I think we're about six weeks into the room. But I knew I do about, like, four to six weeks of prep on my own before I start the writer's room, where I just figure out what is the season about, what are the themes, what are kind of the main, very, very broad storylines, and what are some specific moments I want. And I knew that this season was going to be about punishment, consequences, and inevitability. And I realized I was like, of course Lucy, she needs to pick Steven and then be left stranded somehow. And I. I had the image of that, but I didn't know what it meant. Sometimes I'll get an image of how I want something to look or feel, but it's not actually the scene. And we were trying to figure it out in the writer's room, and I said to the writers, I was like, you know, I just. I want it to be not this, but it's as if he just, like, drops her off the side of the road and drives away at a gas station. And they were like, he could literally just do that, do that. And I'm like, oh, he could just do that. And I think there was a period of time where I thought Lucy was going to kind of get her revenge or be on top. Not when I started writing this season, but, you know, in the past, years ago. But I didn't think that was realistic. And I sort of realized that the show, it's more a cautionary tale. I'm not trying to, like, set an example for anyone. It's a cautionary tale.
- [25:01]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [25:02]
Megan Oppenheimer
You know.
- [25:03]
Stassi Schroeder
No, it makes me scared for my children to go to school.
- [25:05]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. I mean, I think the thing is, we talk about these young relationships as if it's like, oh, whatever, she's 20. She's 21. You are making decisions that can completely change the course of your life and can also completely fuck up your understanding of love and how to love other people. And I just wanted some big consequences for her, you know, not because I wanted that for her, but I think that it's realistic.
- [25:30]
Stassi Schroeder
What's the hardest truth about relationships that you wanted the ending to convey?
- [25:37]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean, I guess what I said before, just about, you know, you need to cut your losses. I think that's basically what I was trying to say. I think that, you know, Diana gets out because she realizes she can't win, and that is winning. And Lucy does not do that. And so I'm sort of just saying, like, look, if you get into this kind of relationship and you don't leave, it's going to permanently fuck you and you're going to lose a lot, and it's just not worth it. But again, I'm not like. I'm never like, this is what I want people to take away from it. Because it's not really my business what people take away from it. I'm like, I'm writing something that to me is true to me is interesting things that I know to be true, that I've witnessed or felt, whatever, and then I give it to the audience. And it's like, you can react to that however you want. But I will say one thing I did want to kind of do with this season was I've been really shocked by how angry people are at Lucy since season one. Shocked people are say, she's as bad as Steven. I'm like, what. What drugs are you on? She's as bad as Steven. You're out of your fucking mind. And they're so hard on her. And they've been calling for her head on a stake since day one.
- [26:49]
Stassi Schroeder
Well, that's misogyny.
- [26:51]
Megan Oppenheimer
No, obviously. It obviously is, for sure. But I. So I sort of had this kind of feeling of like, you want Lucy to get fucking punished. You wanna see what that looks like. And so kind of giving the audience what they've said that they wanted this, like, really publicly humiliating punishment that is so far beyond what she deserves. And then sort of being like, you happy now, guys?
- [27:15]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah?
- [27:15]
Megan Oppenheimer
You happy? I mean, that's why the title is, Are you happy now that I'm on my knees? Because it was sort of. Not that I love our audience, but I think sometimes people can be a little hard on Lucy. And it was a little bit of a. Like, how do you feel now?
- [27:28]
Stassi Schroeder
You know, I think that's like a huge deal. I've never really thought about whether, you know, the audience impacts how a show is made.
- [27:38]
Megan Oppenheimer
Right? Yeah.
- [27:39]
Stassi Schroeder
No, you listen to your audience to.
- [27:42]
Megan Oppenheimer
Some degree, to Some degree. Yeah, for sure. That's cool. I think it's.
- [27:46]
Advertisement Voice
Well.
- [27:46]
Megan Oppenheimer
Cause our audience, it's very interactive, our show. It's almost like a Bravo show, the way that people react and are screaming at their tv. And really, I think because it's just a subject matter that so many people can relate to, there's certain things that the audience will ask for where I'm like, I understand why you want that, but from a storytelling point of view, that's gonna be very fucking boring. You don't actually want that.
- [28:10]
Stassi Schroeder
Can you tell me, like, an example of something the audience wanted?
- [28:15]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean, like, happy endings for people.
- [28:18]
Stassi Schroeder
You know what I mean?
- [28:19]
Megan Oppenheimer
Like, more of like, I wanna see these two people. People happy and together. I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't. You're going to be so bored. Yeah, like, I. I hope that Wrigley and Bri make it work in the future, but, like, I don't need to, like, see them live happily ever after. I really hope that they do. I don't need to see it. You know, that's how I feel. But I'm also a very depressed person. You know what I mean?
- [28:42]
Stassi Schroeder
So that's.
- [28:43]
Megan Oppenheimer
That's my. My taste. I don't need that. I don't want the happy ending stuff like that or just over explaining things. I'm like, not everything needs to be overly explained. That's when things get boring. But there are certain things. I think we just realized after season one what people love about the show and what moments they were reacting to. There was definitely certain creative choices. Season one, trying to make it more thrillery or lean into the murder stuff. And I love a murder mystery, but I was like, we're not a murder mystery. If we were, we would be the worst one ever. It's just. This is not a murder mystery. And I kept saying, like, I don't think they care about that part. I think they care about these people fucking each other and hurting each other and lying to each other and making fools of themselves. And then the biggest moment that people reacted to was that staircase moment in season one. No one. When the finale came out. No one talks about the fact that Steven was driving the car literally.
- [29:41]
Stassi Schroeder
Not like, no one cares. Even like, season two skated over season three.
- [29:46]
Megan Oppenheimer
No one cared. No one cared.
- [29:47]
Stassi Schroeder
Season three, Lucy tries to bring it up for a second and they're like. He's just like, yeah, no one cares. Yeah, no one does. But. Yeah, but if you talk about Lucy in that coconut bra and Diana and him walking downstairs, I know it's.
- [29:58]
Megan Oppenheimer
It's a. Yeah, so we just gave. I tried to give more moments like that that were realistic but shocking and, like, funny. I always say to, like, our directors, our editors, everyone. The tone of the show, when it's at its best is it's as if there's, like, an evil God watching our characters and just, like, laughing at all of their choices. And that's like, when I'm in the edit, I'm, like, laughing, like, hysterically because something terrible is happening.
- [30:27]
Stassi Schroeder
It's like Vanderpump Rules.
- [30:30]
Megan Oppenheimer
That is the succession of reality tv Vanderpump Rules. You were the best part of it. Phenomenal show.
- [30:43]
Advertisement Voice
Planning a wedding shouldn't feel overwhelming. The Knot brings everything together in one place. Vendors who get your vibe, a custom planning checklist, guest list, tools, and a free wedding website that syncs with it all. So instead of juggling a dozen apps and spreadsheets, you can actually enjoy getting married. Get started@theknot.com audio the knot. Let's plan your wedding together.
- [31:07]
Podcast Guest or Caller
This episode is brought to you by FX's Love Story. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bassette join host Evan Ross Katz on the official podcast for FX's new series Love Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. And go behind the scenes with cast and special guests featuring Sarah Pigeon, Paul Anthony Kelly, Grace Gummer and Naomi Watts. FX's Love Story. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bassette. Wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [31:38]
Megan Oppenheimer
Do you.
- [31:39]
Stassi Schroeder
Feel like throughout making these seasons, it's taught you. I would imagine it, like, teaches you things about, like, love and growth and just, like, relationships.
- [31:50]
Megan Oppenheimer
I mean, it's definitely reinforced things that I already believe, you know, like, don't sleep with sociopaths. Don't lie.
- [31:59]
Stassi Schroeder
But, like, you know, how do we figure out if someone's a sociopath? You know, I found out two years in. You know, you find out, what are the red flags?
- [32:11]
Megan Oppenheimer
The funny thing is, in this show, there were so many red flags, and Lucy ignores them. And I think usually we're ignoring. When I look back on my worst, the red flags were there. You're not trusting your gut, but you're so correct. But I do think that if someone, if you feel worse about yourself, like, it's very basic. If you spend time with this person and you don't feel good about yourself, like, 95% of the time after, that's not.
- [32:40]
Stassi Schroeder
That's not a good sign.
- [32:41]
Megan Oppenheimer
Good. And I think, but it's fun. One thing I have just kind of figured out is that once you're. Because by the time I started the show, I was already in. I was very happily married. And I think that I wish more people understood that, like, the toxic cycle is actually so boring. It's so boring because it's so predictable. It's like a B, A B. Like there's no growth, there's no journey. It's just like ping pong back and forth and it's tiring and it's so boring. And trust and happiness and like, it's like so exciting because you don't know where the end is gonna go and so many things can happen and you're not going to be like flat on your face, just destroyed half the time.
- [33:27]
Stassi Schroeder
People in happy relationships everywhere understand exactly what you're talking about. Like, I remember not to make it about me, but I remember getting to that point where I realized this is fucking boring. This nonstop. Okay. We get in a fight, we don't talk for a week. You ice me out, then you come back. Then there's this. And then when I got into a healthy relationship where I felt safe, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is fun. This is exciting.
- [33:57]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yes.
- [33:58]
Stassi Schroeder
It's like happy doesn't equal boring. Toxic doesn't equal exciting.
- [34:02]
Megan Oppenheimer
No, no, no. Those are just stress hormones. That's just like your cortisol rising when you're feeling those. That excitement in a toxic relationship. But yeah, no, I had the same very specific moment in my life when I met my husband. And I remember, literally I described it to my friends the next day. I was like, I feel like I just swam up to the surface of water and I didn't know I had been like not breathing air for 10 years and it was like, like that was the feeling, you know, which sounds cheesy, but that is the feeling. And I'm not a romantic person. Those are the worst scenes for me to write. If it's a romantic scene. That's not. I'm like, this is so boring.
- [34:43]
Stassi Schroeder
We feel like similar. You know, I feel like that would be hard for me to write too.
- [34:47]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah, I'm just like, what's. Like, where's the game? Where's. You know, I'm just not. Yeah, I'm not overly romantic, but the Bri and Wrigley stuff was. Was fun to write.
- [34:55]
Stassi Schroeder
God, and they were so great together. Like, their chemistry off of freaking charts.
- [34:59]
Megan Oppenheimer
I know.
- [34:59]
Stassi Schroeder
Like, I'm so glad you made that decision.
- [35:01]
Megan Oppenheimer
I know. I was a little nervous when I told them about it because they've all become such good Friends, but they were super professional and cool about it. But I was like, you're gonna have to make out this year.
- [35:13]
Stassi Schroeder
They were so great at it.
- [35:14]
Megan Oppenheimer
They were great. They were great.
- [35:15]
Stassi Schroeder
Well, we know where they go in your head. Where do you think Lucy goes?
- [35:21]
Megan Oppenheimer
I actually think that this hitting this rock bottom is the wakeup call she needs. And I think she's going to make new friends and get better. I think she's going to. I, I, I actually think she's going to grow from this moment, because I think. I don't think Steven is going to try to come back.
- [35:39]
Stassi Schroeder
No. I think this is waiting for this. He wanted to win because of the yell thing. Yeah. Yes.
- [35:45]
Megan Oppenheimer
Cause he thinks that that was her and he wanted to win. He wanted his punishment. Now he's gotten it. He's never gonna seek her out again. I really, I don't think he would.
- [35:56]
Stassi Schroeder
No. I mean, I didn't write this.
- [35:58]
Megan Oppenheimer
You did.
- [35:58]
Stassi Schroeder
But, like, I don't think he would either.
- [36:01]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. Cause he, that's all he wanted, you know? I mean, I remember the day in the writer's room when we kind of broke those final moments. It's always, like, very magical in the room when you're like, oh, we found it. We found it. And I was like, hi. I didn't know how I was gonna wrap up these. There's so many characters, and I didn't want it to be overly sweet or overly sad. I wanted it to be, you know, bittersweet and funny, and I wanted it to feel inevitable. But then once it's happened, you're like, oh, of course. That's the ending. Of course that's what was gonna happen.
- [36:32]
Stassi Schroeder
Okay.
- [36:32]
Megan Oppenheimer
That's what you did, you know. Oh, well, thank you.
- [36:34]
Stassi Schroeder
That is what you do.
- [36:35]
Megan Oppenheimer
Thanks.
- [36:36]
Stassi Schroeder
Because it was completely unexpected, but, like, oh, that would. Of course. Yeah, that's exactly for sure.
- [36:44]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. No, I feel really proud of this season. I think everyone, Everyone just did their best work, and we had such a good time making it. We really did. There was a lot of. There were a lot of laughs on the set. Yeah. I feel really good about it. I told the story I want to tell. Who knows what will happen, But I feel good about it.
- [37:04]
Stassi Schroeder
Yeah.
- [37:05]
Megan Oppenheimer
Yeah. You should be so proud of yourself. Thank you. That's very sweet of you. Thank you.
- [37:09]
Stassi Schroeder
Well, that's a wrap on this season of the Tell Me Lies official podcast. Thank you so much to Megan for helping us process the crazy season three ending, and to the entire Tell Me Lies cast for joining me this season on the podcast. And thank you fellow Tell Me Lies fans for listening week after week. Watch and listen to Tell Me Lies official podcast available on Hulu, Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss Tell Me Lies now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.