She Just Can’t Help It

Summary

Tell Me Lies: Official Podcast

Episode Title: She Just Can’t Help It
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Stassi Schroeder
Guests: Grace Van Patten (Lucy), Katharine Missel (Brie), Tila Dunn (superfan)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into episode four ("She Just Can’t Help It") of Tell Me Lies Season 3. Host Stassi Schroeder chats with stars Grace Van Patten (Lucy), Katharine Missel (Brie), and superfan Tila Dunn about the latest drama: relationships, secrets, betrayals, and the power of female friendship. They unpack the most jaw-dropping moments, character growth, and on- and off-screen dynamics, and swap stories about life, social media, and nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Episode 4 Recap & Immediate Reactions

• [00:01]–[03:00] Stassi recaps Episode 4’s hottest moments: Diana’s abortion dilemma, Steven’s manipulations, the Facebook page scandal, Brie’s photo exhibit sabotage, girl power alliances, and the climactic wedding flash-forwards.
  • “Can we please just take a moment for Wrigley? In this scene, she's making a huge decision without consulting me. First consult.” — Stassi Schroeder [00:26]
  • “Stephen plots to use Diana's pregnancy to get back in with her dad, which is completely unhinged. But she obviously sees right through his plan…” — Stassi [01:03]

2. Fun, Light-Hearted Icebreakers

• [03:05]–[05:51] The group asks each other playful “Would You Rather?” questions and swap stories about childhood TV shows ("Hannah Montana," "Wizards of Waverly Place," "Lizzie McGuire").
  • “Would you rather date Shrek or the old man from Up?” — Stassi [03:43]
  • “We're both kind of like, well, I'm decorating my house… Facebook Marketplace.” — Grace Van Patten [04:56]

3. On Social Media (or Lack Thereof)

• [05:10]–[05:48]
  • Grace and Kat reveal they don’t really use TikTok or Instagram for leisure.
  • “We are rare breed. We don't have…” — Grace Van Patten [04:33]
  • “It gives me anxiety.” — Grace Van Patten [05:21]
  • “I don't have it on my phone … I actually have to redownload it [for the show].” — Katharine Missel [05:25]

4. Inspirations for Lucy & Brie’s On-Screen Friendship

• [05:51]–[06:39]
  • The cast discusses which female duos inspired Lucy and Brie’s dynamic.
    • “Miley and Lily—Brie's Lily, for sure.”—Katharine Missel [06:06], [06:08]
    • “Thelma and Louise… maybe O.C. vibes, like Marissa.”—Katharine Missel [06:18], [06:20]
    • “A group of toxic friends.”—Stassi Schroeder [06:36]

5. Evolution of Lucy & Brie’s Relationship

• [06:45]–[08:24]
  • Both characters have "trauma bonded." Their relationship deepens from season to season as they become confidantes.
  • “Season one seems like so long ago… first season, it's very much like everyone's kind of in it for themselves… second season, we were like each other's confidants, and we totally held each other's secrets…” — Grace Van Patten [06:51]
  • “They're trauma bonded but for reasons they might not even understand.” — Katharine Missel [07:39]
  • “Seeing female friendship is always just, like, my fucking favorite part.” — Stassi Schroeder [08:01]

6. Lucy’s Loyalty Shift: Choosing Brie Over Steven

• [08:24]–[09:55]
  • Lucy’s choice marks growth, showing her acting on intuition—however briefly—to prioritize female friendship over her toxic relationship with Steven.
  • “I was proud of Lucy in that moment reading it. I was, like, not expecting her to choose a girl over Steven.” — Grace Van Patten [08:07]
  • “She just can't help it. It's like she is addicted to him. He is a drug to her… she did [choose Brie] for a hot second.” — Grace Van Patten [09:55]

7. The Depths of Lucy & Brie’s Bond

• [09:55]–[11:30]
  • They share a repressed darkness, making them feel safe together.
  • “There's a darkness to both of them… a repressed sense.” — Katharine Missel [08:24]
  • “It's so much overcompensation to, like, make Brie believe that Lucy is there for her, but she's really just feeling so incredibly guilty…” — Grace Van Patten [08:33]

8. On Female Friendship, Trauma Bonding, and Off-Screen Chemistry

• [11:11]–[13:26]
  • Lucy and Diana finally bond as women manipulated by the same man; cast reveals the off-screen cast friendships.
  • “It's such a good opportunity to show these two girls bonding over what they've been… they've dealt with the same issues and the same person just trying to ruin their lives.” — Grace Van Patten [11:16]
  • “We're friends in real life. Like, we're all of us bonded a lot over filming. And so I think that, like, a lot of that chemistry is just… real.” — Katharine Missel [12:27]
  • “There's no. We don't have to try and feel close.” — Grace Van Patten [12:38]

9. Parental Figures: Oliver and Marianne’s Hold

• [13:26]–[14:48]
  • Marianne serves as a mother figure for Lucy & Brie; Oliver a father figure for Brie.
  • “Lucy really saw Marianne as, like, a motherly figure, I think, which she lacks hardcore.” — Grace Van Patten [13:56]
  • “She seeks a motherly figure out of Marianne and a fatherly figure out of Oliver.” — Katharine Missel [14:37]

10. Brie’s Insecurities and Growth

• [14:48]–[16:32]
  • Brie is defined by insecurity and her search for external validation; Oliver’s “needy” accusation is harshly critiqued.
  • “Brie is not needy. Like, when Oliver says that to Brie… She was just, like, gaslit, like, love bomb.” — Stassi Schroeder [15:44], [15:51]
  • “She looks for security within her relationships, within her friendships, and her friends aren't very secure people.” — Katharine Missel [15:33]

11. Favorite Scenes and Character Growth

• [17:13]–[18:47]
  • The cast reminisce about favorite scenes, especially the MDMA dance sequence—both fun and a representation of their closeness.
  • “When we're dancing and we're on mdma. That was really fun and really cute… it really set the tone for their closeness this season.” — Grace Van Patten [17:45]
  • “Like, they're very intertwined in this way… it's interesting to see, like, are they staying close… is it 1000% genuine?” — Grace Van Patten [18:27]

12. Steven Gets Outplayed—And Observes the Wedding Reveal

• [19:04]–[20:36]
  • Brie “beats Steven at his own game” at the wedding, leading to the Wrigley and Brie secret coming out.
  • “Does Steven ever lose? What's winning to Steven? He doesn't know what happiness is lost.” — Stassi Schroeder [19:22]
  • “I loved reading that. The end of four. It was just like. It felt like a puzzle. It was like, Clue.” — Grace Van Patten [20:08]
  • “The Wrigley thing came out of nowhere, and then it became my favorite relationship… This is genius.” — Stassi Schroeder [20:28]

13. Off-Screen Friendships & Day-in-the-Life

• [20:53]–[22:05]
  • Grace shares anecdotes about being Stassi’s neighbor and their chill routines.
  • “I've seen Stassi on the street and I've been too nervous to go up to her, so…” — Grace Van Patten [21:23]
  • “What do you do? Yeah, well, I have two kids.” — Stassi Schroeder [22:01]

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Tila Dunn’s Superfan Segment: Hot Takes & Nostalgia

1. On Social Media Influencer Energy

• [22:53]–[23:59]
  • “Lucy… just tries so hard to be liked… I could see her being like, an influencer that does, like, a little bit of everything and then, like, quits.” — Tila Dunn [24:07]
  • “I just don't feel like she ever really fully commits to anything.” — Stassi Schroeder [23:53]

2. Most Talked-About Character: Steven

• [25:14]–[26:25]
  • Steven's manipulation is a fan fascination and a repeated discussion topic among viewers.
  • “Steven fascinates me. Cause he's such a… master manipulator. He loves a good blackmailer… it's like watching a serial killer.” — Tila Dunn [25:39], [26:20]
  • “I feel personally attacked by Steven.” — Stassi Schroeder [26:30]

3. Best (and Worst) Friend Material

• [28:10]–[29:18]
  • “It definitely wouldn't be Lucy. I'm so sorry… she's so messy in her own life. How can she help anybody else?” — Tila Dunn [28:22], [28:44]
  • “I feel like Diana. I love her.” — Tila Dunn [29:01]
  • “Don't hate the player. Hate the game… She got the prize first.” — Tila Dunn [29:22]

4. Toxic Female Friendships: The Molly Problem

• [29:24]–[31:06]
  • Tila relays her own story of a gossiping “Regina George” friend, comparing her to Molly’s betrayals.
  • “Molly's problematic because I had a friend like this growing up. I'd say between the ages of 18 to, like, 23. One of my most toxic girl friendships ever… she was basically like Regina George…” — Tila Dunn [29:44]
  • “Molly is a dangerous woman because… if somebody confides in you with something that is very vulnerable and they really trust you, it's so rude to do that.” — Tila Dunn [30:51]

5. Rumor Mill Confessions

• [31:11]–[32:43]
  • Tila retells a viral rumor about her “dating Hannah Montana’s brother”—which was completely false but widely believed.
  • “People fully think that I had a full blown relationship with the guy who played Hannah Montana's older brother. Mind you never met him.” — Tila Dunn [32:24]

6. Real Life Rule Followers vs. TV Drama

• [33:21]–[34:59]
  • Both Stassi and Tila confess to their real-life “good girl” tendencies.
  • “Rule follower. There's a reason the world works because we put rules in place.” — Stassi Schroeder [34:07]
  • “If you don't have structure, you just fall apart. This is why you built a proper foundation.” — Tila Dunn [34:18]

7. Crushes and The “Look”

• [35:46]–[37:19]
  • Tila and Stassi discuss exchanging longing stares and meet-cutes. Stassi jokes she hasn’t “made eyes” in 15 years due to marriage.
  • “If I'm interested in a person, I will make that eye contact…” — Tila Dunn [36:21]
  • “I haven't made eyes in, like, 15 years.” — Stassi Schroeder [36:36]

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Notable Quotes

• “She just can’t help it. It's like she is addicted to him. He is a drug to her.”
  — Grace Van Patten, on Lucy’s feelings for Steven [09:55]

• “They're trauma bonded but for reasons they might not even understand.”
  — Katharine Missel, on Brie and Lucy [07:39]

• “It gives me anxiety.”
  — Grace Van Patten, on social media [05:21]

• “Steven fascinates me… it’s like watching a serial killer.”
  — Tila Dunn [26:20]

• “Rule follower. There's a reason the world works because we put rules in place.”
  — Stassi Schroeder [34:07]

• “We might need to ask a professional about whether [trauma bonding] is right or not. But I think entirely intention is. Yes.”
  — Stassi Schroeder [11:50]

• “Drugs and trauma. And they have both.”
  — Grace Van Patten, on Brie & Lucy’s friendship [18:05]

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Key Timestamps

• [00:01] – Episode introduction & plot recap
• [03:05] – “Would You Rather?” and childhood TV
• [06:45] – On-screen duos and character inspirations
• [06:51] – The evolution of Brie and Lucy
• [08:07] – Lucy chooses Brie over Steven
• [09:55] – Addiction to toxic love
• [12:27] – Real-life female cast friendships
• [13:26] – Parental figures in the story
• [14:48] – Brie’s insecurities & Oliver’s gaslighting
• [17:45] – Favorite (and craziest) scenes
• [19:04] – Outplaying Steven & the wedding climax
• [22:53] – Tila Dunn’s superfan hot takes
• [24:07] – Which character would be an influencer?
• [25:39] – Steven’s “serial killer” vibes
• [29:44] – Toxic friendships in life and onscreen
• [31:11] – Tila’s false dating rumor
• [34:07] – Real-life “good girls” vs. unhinged Lucy
• [36:21] – Longing stares & meet-cutes

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Key Takeaways

• Friendship Evolution: Lucy and Brie’s bond has grown from self-interest to deep, if complicated, closeness—rooted in trauma, loyalty, and guilt.
• Lucy’s Addiction: Lucy’s inability to break free from Steven is likened to addiction; her brief loyalty shift feels monumental.
• Female Power: Moments when women support other women (Lucy choosing Brie, Lucy bonding with Diana) are celebrated above all.
• On-Screen vs. Off-Screen: The off-screen cast bonds genuinely translate into on-screen chemistry, amplifying the emotional impact of female friendships.
• Real-life Parallels: The guests compare their personal experiences of toxic friendships and high-stress group dynamics to those dramatized on the show.
• Steven as Antihero: Steven remains the show’s most talked-about manipulator and emotional minefield—endlessly fascinating and infuriating.
• Nostalgia & Relatability: Childhood TV, relationship drama, and social media anxieties are woven through both the narrative and the actors’ real-life experiences, grounding the conversation in universal coming-of-age themes.

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This episode offers an energetic, candid, and slightly chaotic blend of emotional insight, behind-the-scenes banter, and relatable nostalgia, focusing on the power and complexity of female relationships in both life and fiction.

Transcript

[Stassi Schroeder]

Welcome back to Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast. I'm your host, Stassi Schroeder. So each week I take you inside the episode, share the stories you didn't see on screen, and hang out with the cast and crew of season three of Tell Me Lies, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. And today, I'm thrilled to have two of the show's leading ladies on the podcast. Grace Van Patten and Katharine Missel are here to catch us up on all the things Lucy and Brie. And Teela Dunn is here to help me sort through this week's chaos. But first, if you haven't seen it yet, here's a recap of episode four. Diana tries to schedule an abortion and runs into Molly, who immediately spreads the news. Stephen finds out and throws a fit to his bros. And can we please just take a moment for Wrigley? In this scene, she's making a huge decision without consulting me. First consult.

[Grace Van Patten]

I mean, what would she consult you about?

[Stassi Schroeder]

I don't think she needs your permission.

[Tila Dunn]

It's kind of up to her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Stephen plots to use Diana's pregnancy to get back in with her dad, which is completely unhinged. But she obviously sees right through his plan and tells him that she can't wait to abort his baby. For the second time, Lucy gets called into the Dean's office, this time with Katie and Marianne, who encourage Lucy to officially report that Chris sexually assaulted her. She just wants this all to be over instead. But then someone makes a Facebook page called Chris is a Rapist. Brie is invited to exhibit her photographs, but her joy is soon squashed when Oliver pulls her into his office and gaslights her. Wrigley, meanwhile, is stoked for Bri and assures her that she's not the insecure, needy girl Oliver said she was. Pippa has resorted to lying to Wrigley so she can sneak off to see Diana. And Lucy also turns to Diana, but for very different reasons. She's looking for support against the terror Steven is unleashing on her. They actually have a sort of girl power bonding moment, but it's marred by the reminder that Steven's holding Lucy's taped confession over her. Fast forward to 2015. We're back at the wedding where Steven figures out Bree and Wrigley's secret. Can I call you Kat? Because I hear that everyone calls you Kat and I want to feel like I'm in the crew.

[Katharine Missel]

Yes, please call me Katie.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'm dying. Grace. Kat, Lucy, Brie. What's up? What's up? I'm fangirling so hard, I'm trying to keep it cool, but when I look at you two, I literally see me. I see me in my past. Y' all have triggered me in ways that I just. No, it's actually kind of like watching. It's like therapy to, like, go through watching. Tell me Lies. But, like, y' all are exceptional actors, and just the way that you've brought this to life is just so incredible, and I just wanted to just do that real fast.

[Grace Van Patten]

Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So let's just, like, ask some fun questions first. Would you rather be Miley Stewart or Hannah Montana?

[Grace Van Patten]

Miley.

[Katharine Missel]

Miley. But I'm Miley. You're Hannah.

[Grace Van Patten]

What fun.

[Tila Dunn]

I'll be Hannah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, I've never seen Hannah Montana. I'm older than you guys.

[Katharine Missel]

You gotta watch.

[Grace Van Patten]

What was your show growing up?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Lizzie McGuire.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Me too.

[Tila Dunn]

By the way, Lizzie McGuire.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Until they die.

[Katharine Missel]

Mine was Wizards of Waverly Place.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yep.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, okay.

[Katharine Missel]

I was, like, obsessed. Obsessed.

[Grace Van Patten]

That was Disney, right?

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Too. Yeah. Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

I'm older than I was a Disney kid. But, like, that's okay.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Whatever.

[Grace Van Patten]

Barely.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Would you rather date Shrek or the old man from up?

[Tila Dunn]

I don't know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel like this one's easy. The old man from up?

[Grace Van Patten]

I don't remember the old man at all, Amy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, but, like, Shrek is too. Shrek.

[Grace Van Patten]

Shrek. But don't you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Shrek's a monster.

[Grace Van Patten]

But we'd have to be a monster. Like, then we'd be Fiona and we'd have, like, that. They have a cute little cottage.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What if.

[Katharine Missel]

Cute.

[Grace Van Patten]

Your cottage is cute.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

On the swamp with Donkey.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, the cottage makes sense.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, fine.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I said cottagecore. Cottagecore. Wait, I'm a cottagecore girly. Like, my whole TikTok. So much. Cottagecore. Cottagecore. Dark academia. Cottagecore. Like, no, it's.

[Katharine Missel]

Oh, my God.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, so, Shrek, we're all moving into that cottage.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Can I ask you, what is your TikTok? Algorithms.

[Katharine Missel]

I don't have one.

[Grace Van Patten]

I don't have one.

[Katharine Missel]

I have TikTok. I have Pinterest.

[Grace Van Patten]

We are rare breed. We don't have.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What do you do ever when you lay down in bed?

[Grace Van Patten]

Tv. Yeah, you just Facebook Marketplace.

[Katharine Missel]

Facebook Marketplace is such a good Venmo.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You guys are, like, 89.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know, I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I don't even know what Facebook Marketplace is.

[Katharine Missel]

You, like, buy furniture.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You.

[Grace Van Patten]

We're both kind of like, well, I'm decorating my house. You're Always, like, decorating.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

So I feel like that's. You can get really great stuff.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This is fascinating.

[Tila Dunn]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You don't have TikTok.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Do you guys regularly use your Instagram or is it mainly just for your jobs?

[Grace Van Patten]

Job for me. I'm trying to get better, though.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We're always trying to get better at social media.

[Grace Van Patten]

I'm really bad at it. It gives me anxiety.

[Katharine Missel]

Same. I don't have it on my phone. Like, it's not downloaded and it hasn't been for months. And, like, I'm supposed to post things and I have to get on there. I actually have to redownload it for that.

[Grace Van Patten]

You will once the show comes out.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, I love this.

[Grace Van Patten]

We'll all help each other.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You guys go and you get tucked into your beds and she scrolls on Pinterest. You scroll on Facebook. Marketplace. You guys are just so pure.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Katharine Missel]

Aw.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So cute. Okay. What? On screen female duos inspire how you play Bri and Lucy? Have y' all ever talked about this? Are there any on screen duos that you're like Bri and Lucy, Miley and Lily?

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah, for sure.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

That's funny. Brie's Lily, for sure.

[Grace Van Patten]

Totally.

[Tila Dunn]

Way.

[Grace Van Patten]

I mean, like, I want to say Thelma and Louise. Not that they've ever been involved in a.

[Katharine Missel]

Maybe like, O.C. vibes, like Marissa.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, totally.

[Katharine Missel]

That's a really great answer, those two.

[Tila Dunn]

Yes.

[Katharine Missel]

Like, we give that a bit.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes, that's a really great answer.

[Grace Van Patten]

And One Tree Hill.

[Katharine Missel]

I watched both those shows before shooting.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, you did?

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Actually, that makes sense to watch that for research.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. A group of toxic friends.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

You know, and, like, the music definitely hits too, like those old throwbacks. I feel like.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, how do you feel like your character's relationship together has evolved over the years?

[Grace Van Patten]

Season one seems like so long ago, and I do think everyone. Every character has evolved so much and has been through so much in such a short amount of time, but I do feel like they found their groove more than ever. This season. Like, first season, it's very much like everyone's kind of in it for themselves. They're in a new school. It's like this chance to reinvent themselves. And they're. Yeah. They all have these new relationships, and they're kind of like taking the female friendships for granted. I feel like.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And then second season, we were like each other's confidants, and we totally held each other's secrets, and I feel like that built such a trust.

[Katharine Missel]

I feel like, too, they're trauma bonded, but for reasons they might not even.

[Grace Van Patten]

Understand from each other. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, I can totally see that. And I mean, this season, you choose Brie over Steven like that. You have always only ever chosen Steven.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, that's true.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That is just. To me, seeing female friendship is always just, like, my fucking favorite part. Yeah, I don't know.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, I agree. And, yeah, I was proud of Lucy in that moment reading it. I was, like, not expecting her to choose a girl over Steven. It's like she has not made those decisions.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What do you think Bri and Lucy understand about each other that makes them such close friends? I know. You said the trauma bonded thing.

[Katharine Missel]

Mm. I think there's a darkness to both of them. Maybe like, underneath the surface. I mean, a repressed sense.

[Tila Dunn]

Repression.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. I think they're both bottled up in a certain way that, like, maybe because of that, they feel safe with each other or something. And, I mean, it's like anyone who's been through hell together, it's like, is it a true bond or is it trauma bond? And, you know, you see in the future that they still have that deep friendship, but there's also so much guilt involved. Like, Lucy is so much guilt. It's so much overcompensation to, like, make Brie believe that Lucy is there for her, but she's really just feeling so incredibly guilty all the time for sleeping with the man.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Do you think all college kids are going through this? Is this happening everywhere? I really hope not, because it's like, it's my experience. Experience that it is. And then I'm watching this and I'm like, oh, it's happening on tv, too now. I don't want to send my kids to school.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's scary.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

I think there are. I think it does happen, unfortunately. But I don't know. Also, are kids just on, like, TikTok now? And are they even, like, engaging with each other?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, my kids aren't old enough to do that yet. I'm, like, trying to, like, stay away. So. Why do you think, though, Lucy chose Brie over Steven?

[Grace Van Patten]

I think she finally. I mean, I think Lucy's been fed up a million times, but just doesn't ever listen to her intuition, which is part of the problem. Like, I don't. I believe that Lucy knows Steven is wrong for her. She just can't help it. It's like she is addicted to him. He is a drug to her. And whenever she breaks from it, it's like she's somehow pulled back to him. And I Think this was just one of the many opportunities she's had to listen to her intuition and her gut. And she did for a hot second.

[Katharine Missel]

Do you feel like any of it is partly a win for Lucy as well?

[Grace Van Patten]

Like a power move?

[Katharine Missel]

Does she feel validated when she gets that?

[Grace Van Patten]

I do think so. And I think they both, like, feed off of each other's weakness. So, like, when Lucy sees Steven be a little weak, she leans in and vice versa, which is so messed up.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. It's all dark and fucking twisted. Well, we see this week that Lucy turns to Diana. It's like, of all people, I also love when that happens. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Katharine Missel]

It's really sweet.

[Stassi Schroeder]

How did it feel to see that Lucy and Diana started to see eye to eye?

[Grace Van Patten]

I loved it. I thought I was waiting for that to happen. Cause it's such a good opportunity to show these two girls bonding over what they've been. They've dealt with the same issues and the same person just trying to ruin their lives.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, you guys should be best friends.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like you would think.

[Tila Dunn]

You would think.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, you're obviously similar because Steven.

[Grace Van Patten]

He'S drawn to some of you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

He's drawn to both of you. And now you can also trauma bond. I mean, I feel like I've done that with all my exes, ex girlfriends.

[Grace Van Patten]

I think it's underrated.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It is underrated.

[Grace Van Patten]

I do.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We might need to ask a professional about whether that's right or not. But I think entirely intention is. Yes.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I just feel like it's trauma bonding. It's fun to be like, he did this to you. He did this to you. Cool.

[Tila Dunn]

Cool.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's validated.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You're smart. Smart. You're hot. I'm smart. I'm hot. See, we're just cool, smart, hot girls that went through the same thing. Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And the guy is the stupid one. Yeah. Yeah. It's always the guy. I would say it's healthy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It is always the guy. Yeah, I said it. It's always the guy. What about the female friendships on this show do you feel like are most personal to you guys? I know it's a deep question.

[Katharine Missel]

Well, we're friends in real life. Like, we're all of us bonded a lot over filming. And so I think that, like, a lot of that chemistry is just. You can see it on screen because it's real.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. And there's no. We don't have to try and feel close. And it's also, like, because we're so close, like in scenes Where Kat is upset or Sonya's upset, it, like, truly really makes me feel.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. Like our hearts break.

[Katharine Missel]

We're like, oh, my God, don't cry.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Don't. Please don't cry.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Like, it really feels real seeing them.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Was it like that from the beginning?

[Grace Van Patten]

It took a while. I mean, we all instantly connected and, like, got along, but, like, it totally. We only get closer and closer.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's so lucky. Cause I, like, I feel like I hear about casts all the time just, like, hating going to work because they don't get along with their co workers.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And then you guys all seem.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know. It is rare.

[Katharine Missel]

It's lucky. It's really lucky.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

Jinx.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Well, Oliver. Fucking hate Oliver.

[Katharine Missel]

Oh, God, the words.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oliver and Marianne, they have this, like, weirdly strong, like, hold over both of you guys.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Why both of you?

[Katharine Missel]

She's such a powerful woman. So they've. Powerful women have a lot of, you know, power. Power.

[Grace Van Patten]

I mean, I think for Lucy, it was like. Lucy really saw Marianne as, like, a motherly figure, I think, which she lacks hardcore. So when this woman was, like, taking care of her and, like, trying to see her and understand her, I think the heartbreak of, like, realizing how messed up she is was, like, really, really alarming for Lucy. And also. But before that, having to, like, protect Brie in the situation because Lucy didn't want to hurt Mary. It was just a very uncomfortable situation in general. Very twisted. So bad.

[Tila Dunn]

I know.

[Katharine Missel]

It's the same with Brie. Like, I think she seeks a motherly figure out of Marianne and a fatherly figure out of Oliver.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's so pretty.

[Katharine Missel]

She needs a whole family.

[Stassi Schroeder]

How does Brie want the world to see her, and how do you think she sees herself?

[Katharine Missel]

Well, I think when we see her, especially, like, this season, she's fresh off of, like, this toxic, toxic relationship. And so she's, like, just been manipulated and she's really insecure, and I think she's aware of her insecurity and, like, trying her hardest all the time to overcome it. And, like, she kind of never does that. She never really gets to a secure place, and she looks for security within her relationships, within her friendships, and her friends aren't very secure people.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

But then, you know, with Evan, like, he's got that bit of security for her, so I think she feels safe with him. And, you know, there's that. That back and forth with them.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I just want to say Brie is not needy. Like, when Oliver says that to Brie.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, she's Fucking not.

[Tila Dunn]

Well.

[Katharine Missel]

She was just, like, gaslit, like, love bomb.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That was a shit ton of gas lighting. People who aren't loved enough during childhood.

[Tila Dunn]

Don'T know how to function in adult relationships.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That was crazy. That was an insane scene to watch. I feel like people really exist, and I'm, like, getting too wrapped up in my. I'm getting really upset.

[Katharine Missel]

It makes me stressed.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah. I get why people, like, are so, like, stressed watching.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Like, visceral response.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah, it's stressful.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay. Well, also, your character, I would say, has the most life experience, like, out of the whole group, yet at times, she feels like she's the most naive.

[Katharine Missel]

I think she's just had a different life experience to everyone. Like, just maybe not the most relatable life experience. Like, you know, she's gone through shit, but, like, so have. Has everyone. And I think she just, a lot of times, like, puts on the blinders. Cause she just wants things to work out the way that she pictures them. And, like, maybe she sees the cracks and sees, like, the bad, but just keeps going because that's what she's always known to do. It's kind of sad.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It is sad.

[Katharine Missel]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, I'll lighten the mood and just, like, ask like, a fun question. What was, like, your favorite scene to film together?

[Katharine Missel]

I liked. I liked the finales.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, that was the best.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, the finale was really fun. And we can't give anything away, but it is great.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Have you ever seen Legally Blonde?

[Grace Van Patten]

Of course.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, the part where she goes to get the alibi and she comes back and she has it, and he's like, so what is it? She's like, I can't tell you, but it's really, really good. Yeah, that's what I feel like. Okay, tell me about a scene that made you really proud of Bri and Lucy. Is there one that you're just like, oh, my gosh. That was so much, like, growth for both of us.

[Grace Van Patten]

This goes back to the last question of favorite scenes to film. When we're dancing and we're on mdma. That was really fun and really cute. And I like.

[Katharine Missel]

And crazy as well.

[Grace Van Patten]

Crazy. But it really set the tone for their closeness this season.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel like drugs will do that to you.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's true. Drugs and trauma. And they have both. And it just really. I feel like they're kind of sharing a world this whole season with, like, Alex. And Brie doesn't know it, but, like, Lucy's whole, you know, Brie over Steven.

[Katharine Missel]

Thing, the Evan thing, even Evan.

[Grace Van Patten]

Like, they're very intertwined in this way that, like, it's not like they even necessarily speak about it a lot. It's just, like, it's interesting to see, like, are they staying close and, like, being there for each other. Is it 1000% genuine? Like, it's really hard to understand, but I don't think they even know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

You know, but it's cool to watch and be like, what are everyone's intentions here?

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, Y' all are the cutest little friend duo. Okay. Also, in this week's episode, Brie beats Steven at his own game at the wedding. Okay.

[Tila Dunn]

She does.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What's it like to see him finally losing?

[Katharine Missel]

We're at the bar, and I kind of. Yeah. Make a couple comments. But really, like, does Steven ever lose?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Does he lose ever?

[Katharine Missel]

What's winning to Steven?

[Stassi Schroeder]

He doesn't know what happiness is lost.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's true. I think so.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's what I would tell myself if I was one of his victims.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'd be like, he will never know true happiness.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, that's very true.

[Stassi Schroeder]

But in that moment when you do say, I'm not gonna let one little. Like, one little thing, like, ruin the rest of my life, and then he's just kind of.

[Tila Dunn]

What?

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, first of all, what a loser to be holding on to, like, an audio message for flash drive.

[Katharine Missel]

Move on.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's so lame.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Also, at the wedding, he puts the pieces together about Wrigley and Brie. How did you react when you saw that in the script?

[Katharine Missel]

Oh, my God. I was like, what happens next?

[Tila Dunn]

What happens next?

[Katharine Missel]

What happens next?

[Grace Van Patten]

I loved reading that. The end of four. It was just like. It felt like a puzzle. It was like, Clue. Yeah. And you're like, everyone's looking at each other and finding it was. I love. That's one of my favorite endings of an episode, I think.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

The dancing and. Right, it's the dancing. They're dancing, and Steven's, like, seeing them looking at each other on the clock.

[Katharine Missel]

Goes through his phone.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know what? The Wrigley thing came out of nowhere, and then it became my favorite relationship.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And I was like, really sweet. This is genius. And I fucking love it.

[Katharine Missel]

Yeah. Yeah, I. I agree. I think they're both, like, sweethearts, you know, at the end of the day.

[Tila Dunn]

It'S like, they both would be.

[Grace Van Patten]

They both would be different people if they weren't surrounded by, like, the rest of us. Like, they have the most potential. I feel like.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes. Okay. When you guys aren't working, like, what is a typical day? Like, ooh, if you have the day off, what is like, oh, this is my average day. This is what I do. I wanna know what the girls of Tell Me Lies are doing.

[Grace Van Patten]

I'm still figuring it out. That's my problem. I'm like, okay, let's see if I wake up and have nothing to do. I usually like a walk. We live in the same area, so, you know, it's like, good for walks.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. We just found out we're neighbors. We're neighbors.

[Grace Van Patten]

And I've seen Stassi on the street and I've been too nervous to go up to her, so.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And I feel so cool.

[Grace Van Patten]

But now I will. I saw you at the little, like, the town Christmas party where they go, and you were holding your baby, and I literally was with Jackson, and I'm like, that's Stussy.

[Tila Dunn]

That's Stossy.

[Grace Van Patten]

He's like, go up and say. I'm like, what would I even say? And it was a whole. I think we sat there for like 10 minutes. And then I.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That was so long ago. Yeah. My baby is 2 now.

[Katharine Missel]

Oh, my God.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, he was just a few months old. I remember that. And I was like, what is this weird thing that our neighborhood.

[Grace Van Patten]

This weird girl staring behind me.

[Katharine Missel]

This is a weird girl staring at me.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Wild.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What do you do? Yeah, well, I have two kids.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay.

[Tila Dunn]

So that's.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So I don't really get to planned out for you. Do whatever I want. Every day is different in a different way.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know what I mean. But this also isn't about me. Sorry, I'm just, like, having a normal conversation. This is just really fun. Okay, I promise I will wrap this up now. You guys, that was so much fun to have you here.

[Grace Van Patten]

Thank you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Seriously, you guys have made, like, the best show. And I love both of you guys. After the break, me and Tila Dunn get into this week's episode. Okay, Tila, I know you are, like, Tell me lies number one fan.

[Tila Dunn]

Genuinely.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We're gonna do episode 304. But before we get into tell Me Lies stuff, I just wanted to ask you some random questions.

[Tila Dunn]

I would love nothing more.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay. Are you a TikTok, girly?

[Tila Dunn]

I am.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What's one thing you've posted and immediately regretted but left anyway?

[Tila Dunn]

Ooh, probably any of my. Not any, but, like, anything that has to do with, like, my relationships. Growing up on the Internet, I used to like, vlog a lot on YouTube when I was like, 18, 19, 20, 21. And, you know, I'm a very honest person. On the Internet, I show the good, the bad, the ugly. But, you know, I was just like, a young little girl in love. And so I would do these, like, boyfriend tags and, like, vlog with date night and all this stuff and, like, show my relationships in such crazy depths that, like, yeah, they would get a lot of views, but it was just tmi. Just certain things should not be on the Internet.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Wait, which character do you think would most want to be an influencer?

[Tila Dunn]

Ooh, that's hard. Honestly, I feel, like, loosey. Cause loosey, if you think about it, she just tries so hard to be liked, and she wears a lot of hats that I feel like she would want to be an influencer.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. I just don't feel like she ever really fully commits to anything. And it, like, trust. It's hard to.

[Tila Dunn]

I could see her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I could be an influencer.

[Tila Dunn]

It is.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You gotta really. You gotta hustle, and you gotta keep at it. Like, yeah, I drive.

[Tila Dunn]

I could so see Lucy being, like, an influencer that does, like, a little bit of everything and then, like, quits.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

Like, she would be like, oh, my God. Like, I'm. You know, look at me, I'm doing DIYs. And she'd be like, oh, I hate this. Oh, my God. Like, I'm a fitness influencer. Oh, this is so annoying. Oh, my God. I'm doing a makeup tutorial. And then she just goes. Goes for a year. I can still see that. You're so valid. I mean, it happens to the best.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Of us, but I guess out of all of them, it would be Lucy. I don't see that for Diana. I don't see that.

[Tila Dunn]

Too private.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, I don't see that for Bri at all. I don't see that for Pippa.

[Tila Dunn]

Definitely not Pippa. No, Pippa would be like. I feel like Pippa would be, like, cursing people out online.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Totally.

[Tila Dunn]

She'd be on, like, TikTok Live. Like, leave me alone. Yes.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So that would never work. Okay, what character or moment could you talk about for hours with your friend group, which I have a feeling you're like, all of it, bitch.

[Tila Dunn]

All of it. All of it. I mean, it depends on, like, what category. Are we talking more toxic? Are we talking more sexy? Because a lot. There's a lot of sexy scenes. Like, I remember the one scene where I was like, oh, my goodness, what show is this? I'm hooked was when, like, Lucy was, like, studying, and her and Stefan were kind of like, I don't know. Or Steven.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Steven Steven, you can't forget the name of the devil.

[Tila Dunn]

I know, I know. He literally is. He shall not be named. Honestly, they were like arguing and bickering or whatever and she was like studying and all this stuff. And then they just like started hooking up. And it was so hot, like in her dorm. I was like, oh my God. But then there's so, I don't know, there's so many scenes. Like, I would just say like Steven fascinates me. Cause he's such a, first of all, amazing actor. Like kind of scary how great at acting he is.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

But his character just fascinates me so much because he's so complex. He's such a master manipulator. And he. I feel like he blackmails a lot. Like he loves to just get in there.

[Stassi Schroeder]

He loves a good blackmailer. He loves holding on shit for eight years.

[Tila Dunn]

Yeah. And he just loves to hold on to every little piece and thing that Lucy does and then hold it over. Honestly, any person that he dates, he holds it over their heads. So I feel like just any, any scene where you really get to see his true self come out. Especially his dynamic with his sister. How he likes to manipulate Diana's dad. Just a lot of, I don't know, it's fascinating watching him. Cause it's like watching a serial killer.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes. I would agree with you that Steven is the main character that I feel like I talk about the most.

[Tila Dunn]

I debriefed the most about him with my friends. Cause I'm like, oh my God.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel personally attacked by Steven.

[Tila Dunn]

Me too.

[Stassi Schroeder]

At all times.

[Tila Dunn]

Me too. And I put myself in Lucy's shoes. I'm like, oh my God. If I was like this young, like 19 year old or 18 year old, I don't know, freshman in college, however, you know, starting out and like this guy just seemed like he was so perfect and so lovey dovey. And then Master manipulates me. I'm just like, I don't know how I would handle it. Yeah, but if you come at me like that now, baby, you're being blocked, reported and sued.

[Grace Van Patten]

Trust.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Would you rather have your DMs be leaked to your mom or your search history be leaked to your friends?

[Tila Dunn]

I'm such an open book. I don't really care either.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel the same way.

[Tila Dunn]

I'm like, I would love if my mom looked through my DMs. Like I have nothing to hide.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I don't care if anyone sees my DMs in my search history.

[Tila Dunn]

I would be afraid to see my own DMs, because some people DM me crazy things, but I'm not DMing anybody anything crazy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

And I'm so close to my mom. My mom's my best friend, so, like, I wouldn't care. And also, I'm so close with my friends in our, like, group chats. Either way, I don't care.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. And the search.

[Katharine Missel]

Search history.

[Tila Dunn]

Your search history would probably be.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Everyone's Is weird.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

If your search history isn't weird, then you're weird.

[Tila Dunn]

Then you're weird.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

Also, my search history is just like me. Like, I don't know, looking at directions.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I thought you were just gonna say my search history is just like me. Like, you just Google yourself.

[Tila Dunn]

No, no, no, no. Not that, but, like, I don't know. My search history sometimes is, like, looking up celebrities heights, because after I watch a show, I'm like, oh, my God, they look so tall. I wonder how tall they are.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I look up everyone's ages.

[Tila Dunn]

Oh, that too.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

And, like, a lot of IMDBs, because I'm an actress as well, and I love, like, looking at that. I don't know. I have nothing to hide.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's how I feel about Wikipedia. I Never Land on IMDb, but bet your ass anytime I'm watching a show, you're landing on a person's Wikipedia.

[Tila Dunn]

Mm.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

I'm a big IMDb girl.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, let's get into the tell me lies stuff. If you could have one of the characters as a best friend in your group, who would it be?

[Grace Van Patten]

Ooh.

[Tila Dunn]

Ooh. It definitely wouldn't be Lucy. I'm so sorry.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's like, as much as I love Lucy, I have, like, a soft spot for her, and I. Lucy, at a point in my life, I think everyone was like, I was Lucy. But, like, you don't need that as.

[Tila Dunn]

A ride or die.

[Stassi Schroeder]

She does try. You know what I mean? Like, she. She tries to be ride or die, but in. In her good intentions, she's always making mistakes.

[Tila Dunn]

Always. And she's pretty when you really buckle it down. She's kind of selfish when it really. You know, I mean, she's so messy in her own life. How can she help anybody else? Yeah, and I feel like that goes for anybody too. It's like, if you're. If you are going through so much chaos in your life, like, how can you be there for anybody else when you can't even be there for yourself?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

I feel like Diana.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Me too.

[Tila Dunn]

I love her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I think we have the same opinion on, like, Almost everything in this show. Yes, I agree. Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

I love her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Diana. I, like, see no issues with her. Neither do I. So, like, even when I wanted to throw my phone at the wall, when she walked down with Steven, I was like, well, Steven was hers first.

[Tila Dunn]

Yeah, I know. So it's like, do we really hate her? No.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, I know.

[Tila Dunn]

She got the prize first.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, so in this episode, Molly finds out that Diana is pregnant, and suddenly everyone knows. Which, like, fuck Molly. I get so mad thinking about that. She had one job, and that was to just keep this secret. Yeah, like, just, like, she literally said, Diana said, don't tell. And then Molly just went and told.

[Tila Dunn]

See, Molly's problematic because I had a friend like this growing up. I'd say between the ages of 18 to, like, 23. One of my most toxic girl friendships ever. But this was like, she was, like, the ringleader, you know, she thought that she was like. She was basically like Regina George, if you will. And when I first, like, became friends with her, I was like, oh, my God. Like, she's just taking me under her wing. She was a little older than me. She seemed so cool, so nice. The more I got to know her, I realized she told me every freaking secret about all of her best friends that I never met. That's a huge dangerous person. When someone that is a dangerous person, that is very dangerous.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You are correct.

[Tila Dunn]

And then because I was so young, I realized, oh, my God, like, you think. Cause, like, your best friends are that person. They're never gonna do that to you. Oh, no, she's just telling me this cause she trusts me. No, she's a gossiper who spreads everybody's information. I didn't know these people. And suddenly I knew every little, like, crazy secrets that, like, to this day, I'm like, oh, my God, I feel so bad that I know this about this person that I shouldn't know. And then she started doing that with me when we became not friends anymore.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Duh.

[Tila Dunn]

Like, duh. So, like, Molly is a dangerous woman because I don't. Like, if somebody confides in you with something that is very vulnerable and they really trust you, it's so rude to do that. So I don't trust Molly. No.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Molly, get the heck out of here.

[Tila Dunn]

Straight to jail.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Molly, have you ever had a rumor about you spread like wildfire?

[Tila Dunn]

Absolutely. Where do I begin? I will say the floor is yours. Let's talk about a really funny rumor. The other ones are just, like, so dumb, but okay. I was on this podcast like two years ago and I was just reminiscing on, like, we were just talking about dating stories and all these things. And I casually dated a child actor.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Can you tell me which one? It's okay. No, I see this hesitation.

[Tila Dunn]

Love him down. He's in a new relationship now. It didn't work out. Great guy. He wasn't my match and I broke up with him. We move on. There's nothing wrong with him, though. But I never said who the guy was on the podcast. Suddenly everyone in the comments, like, the video actually blew up on TikTok. Like, the clip of the podcast got like millions of views. And then the search bar turned into this rumor and all of the comments were like, oh, my God, I can't believe Tila and the guy who played Hannah Montana's older brother, like, fully dated and are fully dating. I think his name's Jason Earle. People fully think that I had a full blown relationship with the guy who played Hannah Montana's older brother. Mind you never met him. I think he's like 40 with children. I think I'm taller than him. Like, where did we get this? Everybody's like, oh, my God. Tila and Jason are all like, oh, my God.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This is the second time Hannah Montana has come up in this Tell me Lies podcast.

[Tila Dunn]

Really?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

It all goes back to that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It all comes back to Hannah Montana. Yeah, but that's really wild.

[Tila Dunn]

That. And mind you never met him. Not like we follow each other on the Internet and I've met a lot of actors in my life. I've never been in the same room as this man.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So, like, if you ever ran into him, would you be like, I'm really sorry. That was so fucking weird?

[Tila Dunn]

No, if I ran into him tomorrow, I would mil. I would be like, we have to take a photo together. The Internet thinks that you're my ex. Like, for sure. And he would be like, okay, cool. Like, I'm pretty sure he's like 40 with kids.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, I need to google him.

[Tila Dunn]

It's so funny. He's like this really, like, short, tiny, like, old white man. So random. And he's just like, he could be married with kids. I don't know. I've never seen this. Like, I've never met this man. But yeah, it just snowballed and like, God bless him.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, well, also in this episode, Lucy gets called into the dean's office again. Were you a good student or were you the kind that got in trouble?

[Tila Dunn]

I grew up being such a goody. Goody Like, I was not rebellious at all. There was like, no rebellious teen. I've never, never snuck out. I never, like, lied to my parents.

[Grace Van Patten]

No.

[Tila Dunn]

I didn't have a boyfriend until I was almost 19 years old. Like, are we the same? Like, are we looking in the mirror right now? No.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This is kind of crazy.

[Tila Dunn]

I was a boring teenager.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Everything. Honestly, I just made good grades, did what I had to do, and, like, chilled out on the weekends with, like, just my friends.

[Tila Dunn]

That's it. And, like, my mom liked my friends and, like, she knew about it. It was no, like, lying, sneaking out, like, which. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. But I was just like, way too much of a goody goody to ever do that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, it didn't even, like, cross my mind. I was just like, I don't know, I'm pretty chill and happy.

[Tila Dunn]

Yeah. You're like, oh, well, to this day, like, call me corny.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Rule follower.

[Tila Dunn]

Rule follower.

[Stassi Schroeder]

There's a reason the world works because we put rules in place.

[Tila Dunn]

And when you don't, if you don't have rules, it's dysfunction.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

Why do you think Lucy's unhinged? She doesn't follow anything.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes.

[Tila Dunn]

If you don't have structure, you just fall apart. This is why you built a proper foundation. I'm sorry, I'm super type A. I might sound boring. I'm definitely not boring. Trust me, I'm a lot of fun. But I'm such a rule follower to this day. Like, never got in trouble with the law. Like, never got a speeding ticket. Never had any run ins with the cops. Never been to jail. I don't do anything like that ever. I've never stole. I don't know. I've never been sent to get detention ever in my life. Mind you, I have gone to normal school till the fifth grade and then I was homeschooled. But still, like, I never.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's okay. You are a good girl. You're a rule follower.

[Tila Dunn]

I am. There's nothing wrong with that. Let's talk about that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

There's no. We're making the world go round a better place.

[Tila Dunn]

We're making the world a better place. Not everything has to be unhinged. My gosh, it's stressful.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And final tell me lies question. So Steven figures out that Brie and Wrigley are a thing when he sees them give each other the look at the wedding. So, like, they're dancing. Okay. Evan and Brie, Wrigley and Pippa. But they're like, not contest. They're accidentally making eyes with each other, but also trying not to. And, like, you know, there's anger between them or whatever, and Steven fully sees it. Have you ever gotten that kind of longing stare?

[Tila Dunn]

Absolutely.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What you have, Like, I don't feel like anyone's tried to stare with me. Well, I would.

[Tila Dunn]

I don't know if I've, like, I've gotten reciprocated the stare. I have, like. You have pretty big eyes, too. I have very, like, animated big eyes. So if I'm like, I'm a bold person. If I'm interested in a person, I will make that eye contact. And I'm also very bold. I don't really. I don't think there's anything wrong with, like, introducing yourself to someone because, like, what's the worst that can happen? You didn't even know who the per. You didn't even know that person existed. It's like, who cares? But, yeah, there's been times in my past where I've made the eyes, and then that person just walks right up to me, and they're like, who are you? And I'm like, hi.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Have you ever made the eyes and had someone. No.

[Tila Dunn]

No.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's good for you.

[Tila Dunn]

Which is great.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's cool for you.

[Tila Dunn]

But I also. I don't like to make the eyes of anybody where I feel like they'd be, like, unapproachable or, like, I don't know. I like to feel it out.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I haven't made eyes in, like, 15 years.

[Tila Dunn]

Why?

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'm married.

[Tila Dunn]

Oh. Period.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And I don't, like. Let's just say, like, I had to make eyes at someone. I wouldn't even know how.

[Tila Dunn]

Yeah. You're like, what?

[Grace Van Patten]

No.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, I should probably practice more on my husband.

[Tila Dunn]

Like, wait, how did you two meet?

[Stassi Schroeder]

They're mutual friends that were trying to set us up. But, like, you know, I'm sure I made some sort of eyes back then.

[Tila Dunn]

Oh, you need to make that. Make those eyes to your husband for sure.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I think he'd be like, what's wrong?

[Tila Dunn]

What's wrong with you? He's like, do you have something in your eye?

[Grace Van Patten]

Are you okay?

[Stassi Schroeder]

He'd be like, why are you doing that?

[Tila Dunn]

Why are you doing this? He'll be like, you're scaring me. No, I'm just kidding.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No.

[Tila Dunn]

You have beautiful eyes, by the way.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Thank you. But that. But I don't think it would translate into making the flirty eyes.

[Tila Dunn]

Okay.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Tila Dunn]

I love that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

The ship has sailed. The flirty eyes ship has sailed for me.

[Tila Dunn]

She said no hard eyes here.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No hard eyes. Anyway, thank you so much for being here. That's it for now, and thank you for listening. And stay tuned for next week's episode of the Tell Me Lies official podcast. And don't forget to share, follow and subscribe wherever you like to listen. Watch and listen to Tell Me Lies official podcast, available on Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss Tell Me Lies now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.