The Worst Game Ever

Summary

Tell Me Lies: Official Podcast

Episode: The Worst Game Ever

Host: Stassi Schroeder | Guests: Grace Van Patten, Costa d’Angelo, Lauren Mayberry
Release Date: February 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Tell Me Lies: Official Podcast dives into the drama and emotional chaos of Season 3, Episode 6 of Hulu’s Tell Me Lies. Host Stassi Schroeder chats with stars Grace Van Patten (Lucy), Costa d'Angelo (Alex), and later superfan/musician Lauren Mayberry about the latest relationship upheavals, on-set dynamics, and the Gothic Valentine’s Day party that centers the episode’s tension. Wry, candid, and often hilarious, the conversation unpacks new character pairings, the infamous “paranoia game,” and the emotional truth behind the show’s messy romances.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode 6 Recap and the “Paranoia Game”

• Dramatic Developments:
  Stassi recaps the episode’s key events: Steven’s sabotage, the awkward introduction of Teagan, Brie inviting Alex as Lucy’s date (which only adds tension), and the “paranoia” party game ripping the group open emotionally.
  • "The squad spills what they really think of one another in a painful game of paranoia. I thought games were supposed to be fun, but it sparks a tense moment between Brie and Wrigley…” (01:19)

2. Cast Icebreakers & Behind-the-Scenes Antics

(03:00–06:30)

• Who’s Most Likely To…

  • Ad-lib a Line?
    All agree: Jackson White (Steven).
    • “The few moments I had with him, he was ad libbing and it made me nervous and I said… stop doing that… No, no, he’s great.” – Costa d’Angelo (03:44)
  • Break Character & Laugh?
    Grace admits it’s her; Costa recalls a door scene they couldn’t get through without giggling.
    • “There was one in particular… I had to open the door for Grace, but she didn’t even knock yet. I was just so ready… It was hilarious.” – Costa (05:31)
  • Pranks on Set?
    Grace is known for her “electric” prank gadgets (shock pens, lighters, etc.), though the dark tone of the season left little room for mischief.

• Balancing Dark Material and Set Vibes:
  Despite intense plotlines, the cast keeps things light off-camera.

  • “It’s such a good group, and everyone’s pretty chill... we keep it pretty fun.” – Costa (06:52)
  • “We all love hanging out with each other.” – Grace (07:12)

3. Welcoming Costa (Alex) to the Cast

(07:24–09:15)

• Grace describes Alex’s role as “fresh blood” and praises Costa’s chemistry read, while Costa recalls feeling immediately welcomed—highlighted by a birthday dinner in Toronto.
  • “It was my birthday and they got me a cake… I felt the love, honestly, from day one.” – Costa (08:36)

4. Deep Dive: Lucy & Alex’s Relationship

(09:39–13:41)

• Alex’s Character Arc:
  Costa shares that on paper, Alex seemed like “the worst guy ever... obsessed with Lucy,” but playing him revealed layers of heartbreak and vulnerability.

  • “He looks like he could kill you… really intimidating guy… But I had to bring my own flavor to him… He’s a really tragic character and… finds something in Lucy that heals a part of himself.” (09:39)

• Lucy’s Motives:
  Grace explains it’s a new dynamic for Lucy: not about desperate love, but two people using each other as vessels to work through trauma.

  • “Lucy and Alex were kind of dealing with their own trauma separately, but together… It was a way for them to work things out for themselves.” (10:54)

• Sex Scenes as Storytelling:
  Both praise showrunner Meaghan Oppenheimer for writing intimate scenes that reflect the characters’ psychology, not just physicality.

  • “Every sex scene… is always a continuation of where they are mentally and physically... it’s everything they can’t express through words...” – Costa (12:01)
  • “I’ve never seen anything like that on TV.” – Grace (12:28)

• Are Lucy & Alex Healthy?
  They agree it’s not a relationship in the traditional sense—neither expects much from the other, but Lucy rejects care when Alex finally offers it, reinforcing patterns of self-worth.

  • “I think we accept the love we think we deserve...” – Grace (13:16)

5. Honesty & Vulnerability Between Lucy and Alex

(15:04–16:48)

• Lucy’s comfort telling Alex she’s “not okay” comes from a shared vulnerability—unlike her relationships with friends or Steven.
  • “I don’t think Lucy has ever been met with vulnerability… it gave her permission to do the same.” – Grace (15:18)
  • “Alex and Lucy… they’re the only two characters that don’t lie to each other, at least for a while… trauma bonded in a way.” – Costa (15:48)

6. On Filming Intense Scenes & Decompression

(16:13–19:47)

• Both treat intense scenes as “just another day at work” but admit emotional exhaustion can linger. Grace reveals she’s still learning to “shed” the role after a season.
  • “I always think that I’m really good at separating it… and then, without fail, after every job, I’m like, why do I feel so weird?” – Grace (18:57)
• Costa decompresses with music and has a specific “Alex playlist.”
  • “I might post it one day… My Costa playlist is the complete opposite of Alex. You might hear my trailer just thumping music…” (18:21)

7. Character Strengths and Self-Reflection

(19:47–21:14)

• Alex: Values honesty and directness.
  • “He doesn’t lie and he’s honest… he’s got these rules that he doesn’t break until he meets Lucy.” – Costa (19:52)
• Lucy: Aspires to be a good friend, even if she stumbles.
  • “I appreciate who she wants to be and who she attempts to be… but just doesn’t know how yet.” – Grace (20:28)
• Both note the characters’ youth, mistakes, and the messiness of finding oneself in college.

8. Max and the Messy Fallout after the Valentine’s Party

(21:14–24:51)

• Costa and Grace discuss the Max bar scene, revealing Alex is trying to help Lucy, not party with her, while Lucy’s unresolved trauma blocks intimacy.
  • “He can’t always protect her. He can’t protect everyone…” – Costa (23:26)
  • “Lucy won’t allow him to… how does Lucy get back to this dynamic that they’ve established, which isn’t sweet, it’s not caring…” – Grace (22:32)
• All agree: Poor Max deserves better and should come on the podcast!

9. The Paranoia Game and Self-Hatred

(25:10–26:22)

• When Evan “dags” Lucy as most likely to secretly hate herself during the paranoia game, Grace says it’s cruel but not inaccurate.
  • “Is he wrong?… I think Lucy in episode six... does not… is not happy with herself.” – Grace (25:31)
• The season’s emotional heaviness is noted again.

10. Games and Coping on Set

(26:23–30:22)

• The cast plays games like “Got It” and does puzzles between scenes to decompress.
• Grace’s favorite is the “Shocktato”—a hot potato that shocks whoever’s holding it.
  • “It’s been around since season one… a little plastic potato with little shockers on it... when you catch it and the music is done, it shocks you.” – Grace (29:35)
• Costa: “I love a puzzle now.” (29:13)
• These rituals help offset the season’s dark themes and strengthen cast bonds.

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11. Lauren Mayberry on the Soundtrack, Character Chaos, and Relatable Nostalgia

(31:27–43:08)

A. Taylor Swift, Powerpuff Girls, and Emo Nostalgia

• Lauren identifies as a Swifty and says her style is “gothic power puff girl with big witch energy.”
  • “My favorite dance mode is lying down crying to Taylor Swift.” – Lauren (32:16)
  • She and Stassi compare their Powerpuff Girl energies—Blossom for life-of-the-party, the dark haired one for “depressing Swifty.”

B. Most Relatable Character

• Lauren relates most to Lucy—“minus a couple of really shocking things”—and appreciates how the show allows for characters with both good and bad parts.
  • “Other than Steven, I feel like there are good parts and bad parts to every character... that’s part of growing up.” (34:17)

C. Social Media, Online Harassment, and 2000s Nostalgia

• Lauren and Stassi reminisce about the proto-social media era, the innocence of uploading unvetted party albums, and the newness of online drama.
  • “That specific 2007–2008, that's why the soundtrack really works for me… being at house parties when these songs were on…” – Lauren (35:52)
  • “I remember being in a relationship on Facebook… and then seeing that they had listed themselves as single. And I was… life ruined.” – Lauren (36:43)
• Both have personal stories about relationship drama playing out on Facebook.

D. The Toxic Pull of Steven & Advice for Lucy

• Lauren notes Steven’s “Patrick Bateman” long-game manipulation and Lucy’s relatable inability to break away from toxic relationships.
  • “You’re not gonna win… Even when you think you’re gonna win this, you’re never gonna win.” (39:12)
• Advice for Lucy: It’s time to run; some mistakes you just have to make.

E. Shipping Bree & Wrigley

• Stassi and Lauren delight in the “so messy, but so right” pairing of Bree and Wrigley, feeling it overshadows Evan’s character.
  • “I ship Wrigley and Brie so hard that it’s then making me resent Evan—and Evan was one of my favorite characters. How did this happen?” – Stassi (40:15)

F. Lauren’s Music on the Show & Soundtrack Choices

• Lauren contributed two songs to this season, including a cover of “Addicted to Love” for the wedding scene.
  • “We need to get the flow of the scene to work with what's happening. But it should feel foreboding… Don’t make it too nice and weddingy.” – Lauren (41:53)
• Notes how the show’s music choices capture the era’s emotional texture (e.g., using Death Cab for Cutie).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Alex’s tragic core:

  • “As the season goes on… he’s really heartbroken and finds something in Lucy that heals a part of himself from when he was a kid.” – Costa d’Angelo (09:39)

• On sex scenes as character insight:

  • “It’s not just these two young people having sex. It’s literally everything they can’t express through their words…” – Costa (12:01)

• The paradox of cast chemistry:

  • “We all like love hanging out with each other.” – Grace (07:12)
  • “It’s like harder to get into it than, like, you know, like… Oh shit, I’m sad and angry at you right now.” – Grace (07:19)

• On self-worth and love:

  • “We accept the love we think we deserve.” – Grace (13:16)

• On post-scene decompression:

  • “I always think I’m really good at it… and then, without fail, after every job, I’m like, why do I feel so weird?” – Grace (18:57)

• On getting lost in character:

  • “I might post [the Alex playlist] one day… My Costa playlist is the complete opposite of Alex.” – Costa (18:21)

• On onscreen vulnerability:

  • “Alex and Lucy… they’re the only two characters like that that don’t lie to each other, at least for a while. They’re just trauma bonded in a way.” – Costa (15:48)

• On unapologetic self-care:

  • “My favorite dance mode is lying down crying to Taylor Swift.” – Lauren (32:16)

• On emotional stakes of the show:

  • “It truly is sad for everyone. It’s like such a culmination of all these past years… It is heartbreaking. And that’s life.” – Costa (26:09)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Show Recap: 00:32–02:34
• Cast Icebreakers & Set Stories: 02:54–06:30
• Welcoming Costa & On-Set Chemistry: 07:24–09:15
• Lucy & Alex’s Relationship Deep Dive: 09:39–13:41
• Vulnerability, Honesty, and Explosive Party Scene: 15:04–16:48, 21:14–24:51
• Decompressing & Leaving Characters Behind: 16:13–19:47
• Games & On-Set Coping: 26:23–30:22
• Lauren Mayberry Joins – Music, Fandom & Nostalgia: 31:27–43:08

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Final Thoughts

This episode blends genuine emotional exploration, behind-the-scenes fun, and fan-fueled conversation, reflecting both the heaviness and catharsis of Tell Me Lies’ third season. It paints a vivid picture of the cast’s camaraderie, the pains of growing up, and how the show’s music and messy relationships mirror the struggles of an entire generation. The episode ends with playful speculation about the future, love for the soundtrack, and a toast to the complexity of every character—including poor, steadfast Max.

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Transcript

[Grace Van Patten]

The world moves fast, your workday even faster.

[Costa d'Angelo]

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[Grace Van Patten]

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[Stassi Schroeder]

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[Grace Van Patten]

So you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn [e-mail] M365Copilot hello and welcome back.

[Stassi Schroeder]

To Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast. I'm your host, Stassi Schroeder. Each week I'll be breaking down episodes. You know, I've said this a million times, okay? Sharing behind the scenes stories, playing games and sipping tea with the cast and crew of season three of Tell Me Lies, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. And this week we have Grace Van Patten again and Costa d', Angelo, who plays Alex. So we'll talk about everything happening between Lucy and Alex and where they're at in episode six. And later, lead singer of Churches and fellow Tell Me Lies fan Lauren Mayberry is here to fan out with me. But first, just in case you haven't watched, here's a recap of this week's episode. Stephen anonymously sent those freshman year photos of Diana to her parents, but she totally knows it was him. Worst case scenario, there's a goth video Valentine's Day party, and Chris confronts Pippa about their past. The freshman that Steven's been flirting with, Tegan meets the group, and it's more than slightly awkward. And even though Brie invited Alex to be Lucy's date, it only makes Lucy more nervous. The squad spills what they really think of one another in a painful game of paranoia. I thought games were supposed to be fun, but it sparks a tense moment between Brie and Wrigley, and Wrigley and Evan both remind her that she's actually dating him.

[Grace Van Patten]

Why am I the one that you're.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Talking to about all of this?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Lucy gets Alex to stop being too nice to her by taking him to Max's bar and putting on a show. Brie, meanwhile, goes looking for Oliver, but finds Marianne and tells her that Amanda's underage Marianne has some tragic things to say about it all, and Bree heads to Wrigley's to vent. She waits for him outside in the wee morning hours and oh my God. They finally kiss.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Welcome.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Welcome back.

[Grace Van Patten]

I'm still here. I haven't left since episode four.

[Lauren Mayberry]

You haven't?

[Grace Van Patten]

I've just been on this.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I've just been Here. Have you just been like.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Just go to. Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Hauled up like this, Just waiting. I also didn't know you were Australian.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, I'm an Aussie Australian.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Look, you're just such, like a lovable, like, Australian.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Right now we're pretty good.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, well then let's play some Icebreakers.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Love that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

In this episode, in episode six, you guys play the paranoia game.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right? Right.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Which, like, what a fucking dumb idea.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Well, I'm not there. I'm selling drugs. I'm going.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's true. You were selling drugs.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I'm working. I don't know what they're up to.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, that's true. You didn't miss out. You dodged a bullet.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Good.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, Steven's new girlfriend Teagan comes in and she's like, paranoia. And I was waiting for someone to just stand up and be like, this is a really dumb idea. Get the fuck out of here.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know. This group doesn't get it though. No, they kind of want it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Masochists.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes, they're masochists. All of you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So this is a Knocko version of paranoia. Okay, so who in the Tell Me Lies cast. So, like, all of you guys is most likely to ad lib a line?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Oh, it's gonna be Jackson. Yeah, probably Jackson.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Does he do it a lot?

[Grace Van Patten]

Probably Jackson.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Well, the few moments I had with him, he was ad libbing and it made me nervous and I said. I said, stop. Stop doing that. No, no, he's great.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, I would say Jackson.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You have to like, really know your character.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And for Alex and Steven, I feel like that works. Cause they're kind of in those moments jabbing at each other that we've seen. So it was kind of just poking a little bit, which was great. And I think it's.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, I love that. See, you're explaining this to a non actor. I don't know how movie sets, TV sets. I don't know how that works. So, like, if I were to go on stage. Stage. Is it called stage?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, it's called whatever you like. You could call it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You can act anywhere. I wouldn't know if I was allowed to. And then if I got away with ad libbing once, I'd do it the whole freaking time.

[Grace Van Patten]

This is opening up. I have so many questions to ask you about Vanderpump Rule. I'll save. I'll save it for the end. I can't ask you on here. You can ask me.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Is there one in particular?

[Grace Van Patten]

Well, I just like. Do you. Do you have to do things again? If they like it and they're like, do you have to go confront people?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, okay, okay. So you know what to do, but.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You'Ll never know which scene, what it is. I'll never give away which ones have been redone because I like to keep the magic of tv.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, well, then you're an actual genius, then. Oh, thank you.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Okay.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Most likely to break character and laugh in a scene.

[Grace Van Patten]

That happens to me, for sure.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Oh, we had a few. I was like, yeah, yeah, we had a few moments. Do you remember on the bed and those two little bites? And then I opened the door on you. And then there's been moments where there was one in particular. I had to open the door for Grace, but she didn't even knock yet. I was just so ready to open the door. I opened it and it was hilarious.

[Grace Van Patten]

How did you know I was here?

[Costa d'Angelo]

And every time I opened the door, for every take, I couldn't look at her. I had to, like, look through her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Now I need to know which scene that is so that when we're all watching it, we're like, oh, it's that one. They were laughing.

[Grace Van Patten]

I see, like, a little half.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, little smirk there. I probably. There's a few dramatic door openings on my behalf. I feel like I've knocked on his.

[Grace Van Patten]

I knocked on his door, actually.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This whole season, all you do is knock on his door.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Oh, my God.

[Grace Van Patten]

My God.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Come out. Come in. I guess so.

[Grace Van Patten]

True.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Who's most likely to prank the cast? Do you guys do that?

[Grace Van Patten]

I'm kind of known for all my little gadgets, and I have beautiful pranks. I didn't get you, but I have electric everything. I have, like, shock pens, shock lighters, shock.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Do you find that on Facebook? Marketplace.

[Grace Van Patten]

Call back, watch episode four Come in podcast to see. But this season, it was so dark. I feel like everyone was just.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I think everyone was just. Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Everyone was so sad.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's a question I want to know, like, because the story is so. A lot of it is so dark this season. Does that change the vibes on set when it's like that?

[Lauren Mayberry]

It can.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It depends on the day and what you're about, what coverage you're about to do. And I feel like it's. We keep it pretty fun.

[Grace Van Patten]

I think we do.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It's such a good group, and everyone's pretty chill. And, you know, it's just, you know, if there's a moment before a scene and certain actors you need to lock in and go through your process, and that's up to you. But you know, throughout the most of the day, there's. There's no room for. It's a lot of collaborating and talking and how we're going to do this and shoot this and yeah, it's. Keep it.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So there's no room to be depressed. Yeah, there's too much going on.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

We all like love hanging out with each other.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. It's fun.

[Grace Van Patten]

So.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So you don't have your times.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's like harder to get into it than like, you know, like. Oh shit, I.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Cause we're giggling beforehand.

[Grace Van Patten]

Sad and angry at you right now.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Well then.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Because you know what? I'm not even going to fucking ask this last one then. Because you're already, you're already on the sub of this. What is it like having a new person come in? Like, did you haze him? Were you scared?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Did you haze him?

[Grace Van Patten]

That's a good question.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Did I hate him? No.

[Grace Van Patten]

I love a newcomer Fresh blood. No, it's always exciting. And I thought the role of Alex was such a good part and I was. So we did a chemistry read. He was so great. I was so excited to see what he was gonna do and I really, you know, it's a fucked up relationship. But I was like, it's really good and it says a lot, has a lot to say. So I was super, super excited.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Did everybody else feel the same way? Cause you guys are such a tight knit group. Are they like new gun?

[Grace Van Patten]

You know, we're not exclusive.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You're not.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's not exclusive.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's great.

[Grace Van Patten]

I mean you, I won't speak for you.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. What was your feeling?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Did you feel welcome when you came in?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, of course. I was obviously nervous coming in. It was, you know, this is my first kind of moment on the. In on a big stage over like Tell me Lies. And you know, I think something that broke the ice really nicely is I came over here and it was my birthday and they got me a cake. We went to dinner and that was nice. That was.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, that is nice. Where'd you go?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Where'd we go? Some sushi.

[Grace Van Patten]

It was in Toronto where we shot it. Okay.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And that was just a kind of nice one. We all had, you know, caught up and got to speak to everyone and sit down and everyone's so welcoming. They're all fun. Yeah. I felt the love, honestly, from day one.

[Stassi Schroeder]

When did you guys wrap?

[Grace Van Patten]

Like two months ago?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, that's not that long, Grace. Yeah, but the way that you guys are talking about it, I'm literally like, oh, they shot this Two years ago.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Good old days.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know back in the day you're shooting out of order. You don't necessarily know.

[Costa d'Angelo]

There's so much happening this season.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's so condensed within like we shot for over like four months, was it? And like you're kind of going all over the place and you have to think about something so hard for four months. And then it just kind of.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And this stuff is so dark. You want to get it out of your head as soon as possible. It's like, as soon as it's over, it's like, you know, go listen to some music and have a shower.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, no, I have a lot of dark questions. Yeah, well, just to me, I think this one's a little bit. This one's easy. Like, what did you think of Alex when you first read the script? I could ask both of you this.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's super interesting. Cause my first time ever reading anything of any scripts was my audition. And that was like, this character was not me on paper. It was. He looks like he could kill you and he's like, you know, this really intimidating guy. And you know, you try and do that, but it was so kind of far from me. And then I just said I had to bring my own kind of flavor to him. I'm gonna just be myself. But I think Megan, our showrunner, who's just incredible, saw that and kind of said he's brought his own thing and let's see where we can go from there. So reading it, I thought he was just kind of really rude and an asshole at first and he was like the worst guy ever and he was just, you know, obsessed with Lucy. But as the season goes on and you read it's, it's. He's like a really tragic character and he's really heartbroken and he finds something in Lucy that's just. That really heals a part of himself from when he was a kid.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Grace, what do you think? Because you've had a history of like, shitty boyfriends. Not you.

[Grace Van Patten]

No, Lucy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Not you.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Lucy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I mean, why do you think then you were drawn to Alex? Because at first he seems just like a shitty, scary, drug dealing dude.

[Grace Van Patten]

Which is Lucy's type. Yeah, scary.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Is that just like what you were just like, let me just go do what I know?

[Grace Van Patten]

No, I actually, I think it's a completely different relationship than what we've seen with Lucy before. I think Lucy, the first two seasons is so desperate to be, like, loved by somebody and taken care of and like, desperation to connect and Like, Lucy and Alex were kind of, like, dealing with their own trauma separately, but together, like, they were kind of a vessel for them. It was like this relationship, whatever it was, was like a way for them to both work things out for themselves. And they felt safe enough to do it with each other.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And it's so.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Until it doesn't. And, like, they take it too far. You take it too far, you know, and then.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. Like, you can't get away. You can only bandage something like that for so long until, you know.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And that nothing like that is sustainable.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, of course. You know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. And I feel like by that you mean the crazy sex scenes.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, when you were reading the script, were you like, we have to do what?

[Costa d'Angelo]

I guess the genius of Megan, though, is that, especially for Alex and Lucy, it's every sex scene like that, it's always a continuation of where they are in mentally and physically. It's not just these two young people having sex. It's literally everything that they can't express through their words or through anything coming out. And, like, that's literally. You know, it's. It's very sad. But it's written and done brilliantly by Megan.

[Grace Van Patten]

So true.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

I've never seen anything like that on tv.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. Like, it's very shocking and it's honest. It treats it in, like, a really delicate way. But, you know, it doesn't shy away from, you know, the truth of what's going on there.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Do you think there was anything healthy about your character's relationship?

[Costa d'Angelo]

This feels like. Oh, my God. I haven't thought about this in so long.

[Grace Van Patten]

I know. Me neither. I mean, I don't think it was necessarily unhealthy. It's not a relationship, so it's, like, hard to be. Like, these people weren't expecting anything out of each other, which I think.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And you reeled me and that.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. And I. It's so sad. Cause it's like Lucy didn't accept his care when he started giving it to her. And I think we accept the love we think we deserve.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Is that what it is?

[Grace Van Patten]

And that's what it is. I think Lucy doesn't think she deserves thought and care and a loving relationship because she's not used to it. And she's made horrible, horrible decisions. And I think she's probably, deep down, how could anyone ever love me? And that's why she keeps going back to Steven. Cause he does accept the horrible parts about her that no one does.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Except he doesn't, because he does.

[Grace Van Patten]

He uses them against her.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I feel like I'm defending you, and I have to remind myself, like, you're. No, wait. You're okay. You're not Lucy.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Kids, they grow up so fast.

[Grace Van Patten]

One day they're taking their first steps.

[Lauren Mayberry]

And the next they don't fit into.

[Stassi Schroeder]

The tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes, and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore.

[Lauren Mayberry]

But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on depop looking for the stuff your kid.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Just grew out of.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Download depop to start selling.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This Valentine's Day, the UPS Store certified packing experts are helping pack and ship all the ways we care. From the lovey dovey XOXO Gifts. Gifts for your Galentine's gal pal. Even pet gifts for doggy dearest. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS Store US retail location. Send your Valentine's on time at the UPS Store. Visit theupsstore.com airguaranty for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, so Alex is the only one that Lucy admits to that she's not. Okay.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So, like, you have your best friends and you have even Steven. You. You would think you would admit that too, because you do have that closeness. Why do you think your character felt so comfortable with Alex to admit that?

[Grace Van Patten]

I think because of the studio, it was like. I don't think Lucy has ever been met with vulnerability. So to, like, feel that it, like, gave her permission to do the same. And I think she also reached a point where she couldn't put up that facade anymore. And she had been emotional with him before and, like, or at least just honest. And so I think she finally just gives this release.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. Alex and Lucy, I feel like they're the only two characters like that that don't lie to each other, at least for a while. Like, there's. They're just trauma bonded in a way. And Alex doesn't recognize that until later on. And then when he does, it's. It's too late. Like, he's so, like, intoxicated by Lucy and then that's why it hurts so much. And that's why we see what happens in. In these episodes in episode six and later on. But there's an honesty there.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You know, before you guys do those just really intense scenes, do you have something you do to prepare that day?

[Grace Van Patten]

I Don't think you can prepare for. It's such a crazy thing we have to do that. It's like. I mean, it's just another day at work.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's really what it is. It sounds crazy to say that, but, like, we have to do crazy things, say crazy things. And it's the same as, you know, doing any other scene. It's a little more exposing. But in terms of the way we think about it and approach it, it's just like any other scene, really.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So, like the day before, let's say the day before, you have a really hard scene to film. And someone's like, it's my birthday. Can you come? You're like, no, probably not. Have you ever used this as an excuse? No, sorry. Have a really emotionally charged scene tomorrow.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Oh, it's a good excuse. I think I will.

[Grace Van Patten]

I actually find that when I'm tired, it's easier for me to be emotional. It's like babies.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Kind of like when I'm drunk, it's like being cranky.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes. Yeah. It's like when you're more raw, whether that's being drunk or being tired or being cranky, whatever. It's like your emotions are here. Cause you don't have the wherewithal to, like, contain them or whatever. So it's like.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And it's also good take your mind off it the night before. Cause there's moments like that I saw leading up to the script. And it's those big days, you know, in your calendar, it's like you circle that in your calendar. And I had all my scenes with you like that. So you're going to be thinking about that all night. At least I was. So it's like good to kind of get away from it. Take your mind off things. And then you worry on the day you've done the work. You just let it all go.

[Lauren Mayberry]

It's there.

[Costa d'Angelo]

You trust it. And I trust Grace. She's like the best dance partner. So it's like, it's always we. You never feel lost or there's always someone there, you know?

[Grace Van Patten]

That's so true.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's really sweet. Well, then what do you do to, like, decompress? I would imagine when you're, like, doing that, you can't just be like, okay, it's cut, it's over. And you're like, okay, yeah, gotta go.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, it's tough. You know, I like. I'm a music person. I like listening to music.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Bit of gunner future.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Does it stick with you? Do you listen to depressing Music to just, like, feel the vibes.

[Costa d'Angelo]

This is great.

[Grace Van Patten]

Lean into it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah. I've got an Alex playlist, and I'm like, that's kind of how I like to work. I've got. I might post it one day. I don't know. It's good. It's great. It's so good. I'll post it, get enough comments. But I listen. But my Costa playlist is the complete opposite to Alex. I just. I listen to that, and it's. You might hear my trailer just chomping music. Gunner future. So it's very different to Alex. Yeah. Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

I haven't figured out how to decompress.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Are you still stressed?

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, it's been two months. You're like.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That was.

[Grace Van Patten]

You're like, it's yesterday. It's been forever.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Two months is not a long time.

[Grace Van Patten]

I, Like, I've said this before, but, like, I always think I'm really good at it. I always think that I'm really good at separating it, and I don't need to, like, wind my way out of it. And then, without fail, after every job, I'm like, why do I feel so weird?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

So I'm, like, in the process of, like, learning how to, like, slowly shed, but after, like, living with Lucy and being really, unfortunately comfortable playing her and kind of know what to expect, it's just easier, a little bit easier for me after four years to, like, switch it on and off.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

But it's still. And it's.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It's, you know, this. It's. You've been with it, like, for years. Like, that's a thing, you know, you can't. And you're never gonna just let it go. It's always there. It's a part of it, you know? Yeah. Whatever quality that is.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What is Casa, what is your favorite thing about your character, about Alex?

[Costa d'Angelo]

I feel like he's. He doesn't lie and he's honest, and he has a rulebook he plays. Like, in his life, he kind of does things to protect himself, and he's got these rules that he doesn't break until he meets Lucy, obviously. But he's an honest man. I don't think he lies about anything. And he. From where he came from, he hasn't got room to lie and lead people on. He's got to be up front. And, you know, even he meets Pippa and Wrigley, and he's like, they're not real names. Like, who names their child? Like, what is this? Like, he just says things how it is.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I feel like that's a quality I'd like and I wish I had a bit more of. I feel like, you know, what's your.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Favorite thing about Lucy?

[Grace Van Patten]

I appreciate who she wants to be and who she attempts to be. Like a great friend, whatever that is, but just doesn't know how yet. At least she has that. She's not like messing up all these relationships and moving on to next ones to hurt. She's like sticking with these friendships because I think deep down she knows those are the most valuable ones. So I would say that I think like. But like, I can't say she's loyal. I can't say she's like all these words. Yeah, I'm like, oh, wait, she's done that.

[Costa d'Angelo]

But yeah, but she's also so young and like a child. Like we're all young in this and, you know, it's our first time through life. In college especially, you don't know who you are.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It's crazy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

There is one scene that you guys did made me feel so bad for Max. Okay. It was after the like Valentines, the gothic valentines. And you want another drink and Grace wants to just go home with you. And then you guys, she's just like shit faced already. She's like, okay, fine, we'll go get another drink. And you go into Max's bar and you're just hitting on him and you stand and are just waiting and protecting. How was that whole scene?

[Costa d'Angelo]

Well, even leading up to it, I know Alex says, let's go grab another drink and let's do that. But he's really just trying to get her out of the party. He doesn't want to drink necessarily. He just kind of wants to get her away from everything. And yeah, you know, it's. He's kind of probably brought her to the worst spot and the worst possible bar. See Max. But you know, it's sad and it's like it's gotten to that point now with things are. We can't control it anymore. Our feelings and all these things are happening and it's just other people are getting involved and it's just getting a bit messy. And then Max has to kind of take the brunt of it as well. And it's, you know, it's hard to watch as Alex. We're like, where does that bring Alex? You know, for me, internally, it's like he's seeing those and it brings him back to the people he used to know growing up with and how they were acting on, you know, drugs and Drinking. And he's got to feel that for Lucy. And he's. He wants to help her, but he. He can't, you know, and.

[Grace Van Patten]

And Lucy won't allow him to. Like, it's. That's, like the peak of Alex really trying to maybe talk about what happened, because at this point, Alex thinks that Lucy did get sexually assaulted. Right. So Lucy's trying to not talk about it because it's not true. And Alex is trying to comfort Lucy, and Lucy does not want anything to do with that out of shame and out of just not. That's not what their dynamic is. That's not what she wants out of this. And I think that scene really shows the desperation of, like, how does Lucy get back to this dynamic that they've established, which is not sweet. It's not caring. It's like, I want you to make me feel because that's how I feel. And that's just like the. It was kind of like the foreplay to what ends up happening later.

[Costa d'Angelo]

He can't always protect her. He can't protect everyone. And it's like, it breaks down. And that's what happens when we get back to the apartment and the truth comes out and, like, everything. Alex becomes a kid again, and he says, like, I'm. I'm not this. I'm not a bad person.

[Grace Van Patten]

No, you're not.

[Costa d'Angelo]

He's only ever opened up with loose, like, to anyone. He's never done that besides Lucy, you know, probably not since he was a child, you know, with Bri. And Lucy's the only person to get that out of him, you know, that he's. He's not a bad person. And that's the biggest fear. That's, like the last thing he ever wants to be. To be the people that hurt him when he was growing up. And now he feels like he could become that. And. Yeah, he's afraid of it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Deep, deep stuff. Yeah, very deep. Yeah, really intense.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like, poor Max. I know it's poor you guys.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Also, Max.

[Grace Van Patten]

Max.

[Costa d'Angelo]

We love Max around here.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Maxim winner, you know, he's not doing anything wrong. No, he's not. He always just, like, does the right thing, and then he gets to the short end of the stick, and then at the wedding, you pull that shit. You know what I mean? And I'm like, poor Max. He, like, lasted this long. He lasted eight years. He made it to the wedding.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Max is a better man than me, you know? Max is a.

[Grace Van Patten]

Is. There's nothing wrong with him.

[Costa d'Angelo]

No, he's good.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We need to get Max on the pod.

[Grace Van Patten]

You do.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We need to get Max on the pod. You guys.

[Costa d'Angelo]

You do.

[Grace Van Patten]

Edmund is the best.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Let's get him on.

[Grace Van Patten]

So great. He's the best.

[Costa d'Angelo]

He's the man.

[Stassi Schroeder]

When you were playing that game of not you, Lucy, it's so hard. It's so hard to like, you know, especially just asking you guys these fucking questions. I'm just like. I just want to just be like, Lucy, Alex, whatever.

[Grace Van Patten]

You can call me Lucy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's just like, easy.

[Grace Van Patten]

I'll be Lucy for this.

[Stassi Schroeder]

When y' all were playing the paranoia game, Evan said that you're not you. Your character Lucy was the one most.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Likely to secretly hate themselves.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Do you think that was true, or do you think that he was just, like, picking on you?

[Grace Van Patten]

I think he was probably, you know, it was. It was a little dagger, but is he wrong? I don't. Out of all of those people, I think. I think he hit a nerve for Lucy in that moment in time. I think Lucy in episode six, I mean, for most of the season, does not. Is not happy with herself.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And that's why she's craving to get that from other people, because she just doesn't feel. She doesn't feel good.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, it's like a sad season.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's really sad to watch Lucy.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Alex is sad for Alex, too. It's so sad for everyone.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It truly is sad for everyone.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It is. And it's like. Like such a culmination of all these past years, like the last two seasons into this. And it's just. It is heartbreaking. And that's life. It's just kind of, you know, it doesn't shy away from that.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Poor old ass.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, well, I'll lighten the mood with, like, one more question that's not depressing. Okay. Do you guys play games on set? Cause you're always playing games on the show, like, paranoia, slap, whatever.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Who slaps?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, I've slapped someone.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's embarrassing. I've seen you slap someone.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I literally walked right into that. I was like, who slaps people? Do you guys, like, play games on set?

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, we love a. Did you play? Got it with us?

[Costa d'Angelo]

No.

[Lauren Mayberry]

What?

[Costa d'Angelo]

I wasn't invited.

[Grace Van Patten]

I definitely taught you that.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Oh, you probably did.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's like, it's where you. On the count of three, let's play.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Now you say teach me.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Okay.

[Grace Van Patten]

So on the count of three, usually you play with two people, but we've made it so you can play with as many people.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay.

[Grace Van Patten]

But the two person game is on the count of three, you're gonna say a word. The first word you think of.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay. Okay.

[Grace Van Patten]

Ready?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Three, two, one.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Tree.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, so now we have tree and pink. Now you have to try and find the common denominator of those two words.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, I've played this.

[Grace Van Patten]

Played this a million times. So when you have it, you say got it. And then the first two people to get. Like if you two found the word, you could say got it. And you want to guess the same word as quickly as possible. So pink and tree. Got it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, I don't got it. Okay, I have one pink tree.

[Grace Van Patten]

Three, two, one.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Flower. You said.

[Grace Van Patten]

What'd you say? Lorax from over there.

[Costa d'Angelo]

The pink trees. The Lorax.

[Grace Van Patten]

Fine, I see it. Blossom and flower. Let's go with that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Hers is better than yours. Blossom and flower.

[Costa d'Angelo]

All right. Blossom. Flower.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, so then where do you go from there?

[Grace Van Patten]

Keep going until you get it right.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Should we come up with a word for Lorax? Blossom and flower.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Ignore Lorax. Pretend that never.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, Blossom. Okay, I got it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Got it.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I don't got it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Three, two, one, garden.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I just scraped.

[Grace Van Patten]

Garden. Bloom.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Oh, Got it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Got it.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Really? Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay. Three, two, one, flower.

[Costa d'Angelo]

This is the worst game, guys.

[Grace Van Patten]

We're really not synced up. We're not in sync, but you get the point.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I get the point. So you guys play this on set? Yeah, I play.

[Grace Van Patten]

It keeps your mind going. I also have.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I was a bit better on set, by the way. I was a bit more lucky.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Sure.

[Costa d'Angelo]

It's been a busy week.

[Grace Van Patten]

We have.

[Costa d'Angelo]

And we did the puzzles. We made a big puzzle.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, yeah. We were so into puzzles.

[Costa d'Angelo]

We were locked in on puzzles as well.

[Grace Van Patten]

Like we had one.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Megan told me about this.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's what you're thinking. You guys are old. That's what you're thinking.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I mean, I personally don't like puzzles, but. You do. You guys.

[Costa d'Angelo]

I love a puzzle now.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like it actually fight for your puzzles.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Just cause I don't like them doesn't mean you should feel embarrassed.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. You just haven't done the right puzzle.

[Grace Van Patten]

Sorry.

[Stassi Schroeder]

They're kind of all the same. It's like you gotta find a little piece and make it fit with another. And then I'm like, this is boring.

[Costa d'Angelo]

You're like, now what? Yeah, fair enough. You're not wrong.

[Stassi Schroeder]

So you guys are just game playing puzzles.

[Grace Van Patten]

My favorite that I ordered years ago. It's been around since season one. I don't know if it's came out to play Season Three, but it's called shocktato and basically it is a little plastic potato with little shockers on it. And you play hot potato and if it lands on you, when you catch it, when the music is done, it shocks you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Wait, you actually do like electric games and tricks. That's like when you said that earlier, you're like, yeah, I don't know what that means, but you have an electric shock potato.

[Costa d'Angelo]

That was crazy, you guys.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, I have a shock tato and.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Now I believe everything that I say.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah, well, you better. You're gonna get shocked.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, that's true.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Y' all were great. After the break, singer and songwriter Lauren Mayberry joins me to talk about the amazing music on Tell Me Lies. New Maybelline Serum lipstick.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Maybe it's not just lipstick.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's lush color with endless possib. It's serum infused with a hyaluronic acid and oil blend for eight hour, plumping.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Moisture in tone enhancing shades. It's more than the shade, it's who's wearing it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You. New Maybelline Serum lipstick.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Maybe it's Maybelline.

[Stassi Schroeder]

We heard you. Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can. Lauren, thank you for being here and congratulations on two songs.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Two songs?

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes. Two songs being on the show. And I'm gonna get to that. But first, I have a question for you. Are you a swiftie?

[Lauren Mayberry]

I have been known to swift. I have, yes.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You've been known to swift?

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes, I have swiftied around the place a little bit, yes. I did two Eros tour shows.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay. No, you are a swiftie. Why haven't more people started using swift as a verb? I've been known to swift.

[Lauren Mayberry]

I've been an annoying, tortured poet's truther for like two years. So it's nice. Nature is healing. It'll all even out. Yeah, I know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You just, like, once you get out of the shower, you just, like, bop around to life of a showgirl, but you just don't tell anyone.

[Lauren Mayberry]

I mean, there's. Ophelia's got the great dance. It's got. There's many things.

[Grace Van Patten]

Do you love the dance?

[Lauren Mayberry]

I'm not. Come on. I'm not much for the dancing myself.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Keep it 100. I need to learn it. It seems like a lot of work, though.

[Lauren Mayberry]

My favorite dance mode is lying down crying to Taylor Swift. That's where I'll be doing that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I think that feels good too though.

[Lauren Mayberry]

You know, she can give us both. She is shit.

[Stassi Schroeder]

She can do it all.

[Lauren Mayberry]

She really can.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay, so this week they go to the Gothic Valentine's Day party and you've described your style as gothic power puff girl with big witch energy. Can you break that down for me?

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes. I think it was especially. There was an era of the band where there was a lot of black tulle and tutu type things going on. So. Yes. And then someone from Powerpuff Girls did do a drawing of me as that and sent it to me, which is nice. So it's on my fridge in the house.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Wait, that's really cool. I was a Powerpuff girl when I was younger. I always. What was the redhead one? Blossom.

[Lauren Mayberry]

And I wonder what the pipeline from Powerpuff Girl to adult Swifty is probably quite similar.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You're so right. You're so right. But like the dark haired Powerpuff is the depressing Swifty and it's me, you.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Know, in the Blue Nile and then.

[Stassi Schroeder]

The red headed Powerpuff, which I'm pretty sure is Blossom. We. We're life of a showgirl.

[Lauren Mayberry]

That makes sense, you know, and then Fearless era is the blonde one.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Is the blonde one maybe.

[Lauren Mayberry]

I don't know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah, someone. Someone write a dissertation on that one. Okay, so you are a huge Tell Me Lies fan.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Okay. Which character do you feel like you relate to the most in this show?

[Lauren Mayberry]

I feel like it changes season to season, almost episode to episode. I think season one, I was like, Lucy, I understand. We've all been there. That's a tough situation. And then after a point I was like, well, I've not done that. But I think that's what's great about the show is that other than Steven, I feel like there are good parts and bad parts to every character and that's part of growing up and that's part of going through those experiences in your life. So unfortunately, I would have to say Lucy for the most part, minus a couple of really shocking things.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, listen, just because we relate to one the most doesn't mean we have to agree with everything. I personally think I'm a blend of Lucy and Diana.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Oh, I can see that you take care of business.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Like Lucy's not type A enough. She's not OCD enough.

[Lauren Mayberry]

And I feel like Diana was the only one who was able to, well, so far, as far as I know, was able to get away best him at his own game. She was like, he has to Think it's. Steven has to think it's his idea and then I back away slowly and then get the hell out of there.

[Stassi Schroeder]

100%. Yeah. Diana's a mastermind also. She's a good witch.

[Lauren Mayberry]

She's a good witch. She's a good witch. She has good witch energy.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Well, also in this week's episode, we see Steven anonymously sent those freshman year photos of Diana to her parents. And I wanted to know if you have ever faced like online harassment or backlash. I'm a master of that. Like, I get it all the time.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Well, and I guess, yeah, through work and through having a career where you have to be public facing to a point, I feel like you do get a certain amount of that. And in the band, we've spoken a certain amount about that. But I think what's great about talking about it in the show is that that happens to people all the time. It doesn't. Like Lucy's not fronting a band. Lucy's not like on tv. Well, she's in our minds, she's on tv, but not, you know, it's like that happens to people all the time. And I think especially the time period, like I was at college at the same era that the show is set at. Wait, how old are you? 38.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'm 37. So I've been saying this too. I'm like, this was my college time.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes. I think that's why it gets me. Cause that specific 2007, 2008, that's why the soundtrack really works for me. Something I remember being at house parties when these songs were on and things like that. But it was kind of that moment where we'd had social media for a bit, but I don't think we really knew what we were doing or what it was or where we would end up.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You were just uploading albums from the night before.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Hundreds of photos. Hundreds of unvetted, just endless, sweaty photos.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I can ask like, hey, are you okay with this one?

[Costa d'Angelo]

No.

[Lauren Mayberry]

But in a way, I kind of miss that era. And I'm like, I wish I'd saved all of those of like the red eyed photos from like when you were out in the club or you were at house parties or at shows. And I think there was a purity or an innocence to how we approach the Internet at that point. And now I'm like, oh, we know too much.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I know we. We could never have fathomed, we could never have guessed what social media was gonna turn into.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes. But there's at that specific time period in that specific age, I feel like some very upsetting things were happening on Facebook. Like, I remember being in a relationship with somebody on Facebook where you could put the names together and then seeing that they had listed themselves as single. And I was. Cause it was like, lauren, the relationship status has changed. And I was like, has it? I don't think I did that. And then I looked and I was like, oh. And that was life ruined.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Wait.

[Lauren Mayberry]

And now I'm like, couldn't really give two craps.

[Stassi Schroeder]

But I had an experience like that. My first boyfriend in la, we were in a relationship, and my stepmom at the time, she went and stalked him. She's like, it says he's in an open relationship. News to me.

[Lauren Mayberry]

He told himself.

[Stassi Schroeder]

News to me. That was like my first Stephen that I had. I consistently dated Steven throughout my 20s. I think that's why I'm so tough.

[Lauren Mayberry]

It built character well, and I feel like that's what makes the show so relatable. I think, like, so many female friends I have, when we talk about the show, everyone talks about their specific brand of Steven that they. So that's why I feel like I can't. Yeah. During last season, I feel like people online were getting really mad at Lucy, and I was like, I understand why she's doing it, though.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It gets, like, so much worse.

[Lauren Mayberry]

We don't love what she's up to, but it's not her fault. But. I don't know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It is and it's not. But she has good intentions for the most part.

[Lauren Mayberry]

God bless her. She can't seem to land in.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I know she can't figure it out. What advice would you give Lucy if you, like, at this moment in time?

[Lauren Mayberry]

Ooh. I think it's hard to tell. I feel like in the 2008 ish time period, some of those things are just lessons you're gonna have to learn. You're gonna have to make all these mistakes, and hopefully at some point, you will have reached your rock bottom and say, enough is enough. I don't actually want to do that anymore. I don't want my life to be like that. But I think it's very confusing when you're that age, and especially with a personality like that, like the manipulation of that and the kind of hot and cold and the love bomb, and they take it away. Like, that's very confusing and can be quite addictive, I think, because then when you do get. Get the attention and the love and this feeling of security, it feels so much better because you've not had It. And for sure I'm like, that's incredibly emotionally manipulative. So I understand. I was like, you're just gonna have to do something stuff. But in the present day or in the. Okay, present moment.

[Stassi Schroeder]

The wedding.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Yes.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. What advice would you give her?

[Lauren Mayberry]

It's time to stop, man. It's time to stop. It's time to run. You're not gonna win. Even when you think you're gonna win this, you're never gonna win.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Well, how do you think this season is gonna end? In your just wildest dreams, wildest imagination, how do you think this season is going to end? Not how do you want it to end.

[Costa d'Angelo]

No.

[Lauren Mayberry]

I was about to be like, well, in a fantasy scenario, everybody goes and gets therapy drinks, lots of water. No. Well, I'm excited for more of the rollout of the Bree Wrigley storyline. Just cause I wanna know what happens. And then another universe I can see. I was like, this makes a lot of sense.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, it makes the most amount of sense to me.

[Lauren Mayberry]

It's so messy as all hell.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's so messy, but it feels so right. Like I ship Wrigley and Bree so hard that it's then making me resent Evan. And Evan was one of my favorite characters. I'm like, how did this happen?

[Lauren Mayberry]

Like, poor Evan. And yet.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I know, I know, I know. I like the second that they kissed Wrigley and Brie, I like was it made.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Suddenly everything made sense to you.

[Stassi Schroeder]

This show should be about them.

[Lauren Mayberry]

And he did. As much as I do. I do love Evan. I'm like, well, you did tell a long term lie. That's true to your message. But now we know that she's got some fibs. So I don't. My main concern at the end of season two was how has Steven moved this voice memo recording from device to device to device. And I was like, that's a real. No, that is serious long game planning.

[Stassi Schroeder]

To be a fucking evil, like literal serial killer shit. He had to put it in some sort of like hard drive eventually move it up to the cloud. Whatever the cloud is. I'll never know. Like, he had to do a lot to keep that voice memoir.

[Lauren Mayberry]

It was real Patrick Bateman stuff. And I was like. And that's why he's so good.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Because keeps his guessing.

[Stassi Schroeder]

God, he sucks so bad. Can you tell me about the fact that you have two songs on the show and one of them is the wedding.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Is one of them is in the wedding. Yes. I was very excited. Cause I love the show anyway. And when we got the ask to do it and then realizing what scene the Addicted to Love cover was for, I was like. I was like, I know what we should do. I know what to do. And I think it helped having a creepy fan in the band. Cause I was like, okay, guys, here's what happened in the previous news. He says, let me tell you. And, yeah. Cause both the guys in the band have composed for film and TV and stuff before. So I think that helped us kind of. We need to get the flow of the scene to work with what's happening. But it should feel like foreboding and stressful. Don't make it too nice and weddingy. We have to keep it quite ominous.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Oh, see, like, as a super fan, you brought the love.

[Lauren Mayberry]

Well, so I know how important this scene is, the team is, and I'm very conscious that I don't want to make a mess of it for everybody. So it's like, we have to do a good job. So, no, we're really excited to get to do it. And I just. I love the soundtrack of the show generally. Cause I feel like it really helps show what time period we're in. And, you know those moments of nostalgia where you're like, oh, yeah, I remember being at college and MGMT and Postal Service and all those kinds of things. And it feels very fitting. Feels very fitting to me.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Well, then I know you must have. You definitely paid attention to all the music over the last couple seasons. What do you think was, like, the perfect moment where, like, the soundtrack really just, like, made the scene?

[Lauren Mayberry]

I mean, all the party music, I think they really nail the specific time period that's tied to. And even though you're not gonna like this as a Brie Wrigley Truther, but I did find it quite touching that I Will Follow youw Into the Dark by Death Cab, played when Brie and Evan kiss. I thought that was cute. But now you're like, I'm over that. I'm over them.

[Costa d'Angelo]

Yeah.

[Lauren Mayberry]

But, yeah, I feel like maybe it's also. Cause that's formative music for me. But any Death Cab sync is lovely to me.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Lauren Mayberry]

This was so fun.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, thank you for having me. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you this week. Thanks for tuning in, and stay tuned for next week's episode of Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast. And don't forget to share, follow and subscribe wherever you like to listen. Watch and listen to Tell Me Lies official podcast, available on Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss Tell Me Lies. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.