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- [00:01]
A
Hi, and welcome back again to Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast. I'm your host, Stassi Schroeder. Each week I'll be breaking down the episodes, sharing behind the scenes stories, playing games, and sipping tea with the cast and crew of season three of Tell Me Lies, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. This week, I'll talk to none other than Tell me Lies incredible showrunner Megan Oppenheimer. But first, we need to talk about episode three. So if you haven't watched Stop what you're doing, go watch it right now and then come back. The gangs only just got back to campus, but everything feels totally different already. Pippa and Diana are enjoying their new relationship, but Pippa is struggling with not wanting to hurt Wrigley. And Diana finds out that she's pregnant. Wrigley doesn't really feel bad for Steven, even though he's going through a breakup. I mean, who would feel bad for Steven? Give me a break. At the apres ski party, Brie opens up to everyone that she and Alex know each other from foster care and plays matchmaker to Alex and Lucy. Brie sends Oliver a picture of her and Amanda. Evan is dating Molly still, but he's shedding the nice guy image and taking what he wants, telling Brie he'd leave Molly for her in a heartbeat.
- [01:23]
B
You know, I'll stop talking to her.
- [01:24]
A
In a second if you told me to. Steven passes up on the party to drink alone at Max's bar and gets a call from his mom, who tells him his sister could lose her scholarship. Steven takes his angst out on Max and then Lucy, who he's still mad at for not telling him about Evan. After a tortuous fight, he gets her to admit an even worse secret on camera, that her sexual assault claim was fake. And Lucy leaves feeling absolutely helpless. After that, Steven and Evan strike a deal that Evan's father will fund the rest of Sadie's tuition so long as their beef is squashed. But Lucy leaves the fight and heads to Alex's, seeking some sort of comfort. And we get a gut wrenching scene of her confession and her rough sex with Alex intertwined. And just like, whoa. Okay, so over the years, how have the cast dynamics and relationships changed? I know you really can't say too much, but I have to ask. It's also crazy that I just found out that you're married to Oliver. I'm. I'm. I don't know if I'm ever gonna recover like that. So he's handsome he's handsome. That is a handsome man.
- [02:41]
C
He's a handsome man.
- [02:42]
A
He's good for you.
- [02:43]
C
Thank you. Yeah, he's, he's, he's good looking. Very dumb, but I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. He's not joking. He's very smart and lovely and tall. Yeah, no, I love him. Yes, we are married. We are married. And he's not like Oliver, so. Yeah.
- [03:00]
A
Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about some of the other cast members. How has some of their relationships changed since the pilot?
- [03:12]
C
I mean, everyone's just become very. During the pilot, everyone was sort of getting to know each other and figuring out who. Who they were, you know? And now everyone knows each other very, very well.
- [03:25]
A
I know that everybody knows this, but it is kind of fucking crazy that Lucy and Steven are in a serious relationship. Irl.
- [03:33]
C
Yes.
- [03:33]
A
Like since the pilot, I feel like. Or their audition. Like they auditioned or something.
- [03:39]
C
It was after their chemistry read. Not immediately after.
- [03:43]
A
But what was their chemistry read like?
- [03:46]
C
Well, they had to do a lot because their first one was on Zoom. Because we were seeing everyone on Zoom.
- [03:51]
A
How does someone do a chemistry read?
- [03:53]
C
Well, that was the thing.
- [03:55]
A
That's impossible.
- [03:56]
C
Yeah.
- [03:57]
A
Down with Zooms.
- [03:58]
C
Yeah. I mean, Zoom auditions are actually weirdly very effective. But not for Chemistry. But yeah. So they met on Zoom and then we brought him in in person. We did two in person chemistry reads like months apart. Because it was a long process casting that part. It's just such a specific. I feel like I saw every guy between the ages of 18 and 35 that lives in LA or New York. No, their chemistry read was. I mean, they just had insane chemistry. I remember this one screenshot that we took of their read and I was like, sending it to the executives. I was like, this is the guy. Look at the way they look at each other. Yeah, no, it was great.
- [04:44]
A
Can you tell me who the first person was to be cast?
- [04:48]
C
Grace. Oh, yeah.
- [04:49]
A
I didn't know that.
- [04:50]
C
Yeah, we cast Grace and then she read with most of the people that auditioned after her. We cast her about, I mean, several months before we cast anyone else. Then we started reading Steven and. And all the other characters. I think the second person cast was Kat. I think Brie was the second person we cast. Yeah, we saw a lot of people.
- [05:14]
A
She's like the Katy to my Stassi.
- [05:18]
C
That's funny.
- [05:19]
A
Well, I just think that she looks like Katy a lot.
- [05:21]
C
Do you? Yes.
- [05:22]
A
They both have these stunning faces that you just can't look away from.
- [05:27]
C
Cat has an Incredible cat. A very feline face. Face Cat is a very appropriate name. Yeah. Stunning.
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A
Just surface looking at them wise.
- [05:38]
C
That's so funny.
- [05:38]
A
Just like. I'm not talking about, like, who they are as characters really, but it's.
- [05:44]
C
I love that. I don't see that.
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A
That's okay.
- [05:47]
C
But I believe you. I believe you that you see that. Yeah, we joke a lot. That I feel like that character feels like the more complicated. I actually never watched Dawson's Creek, but everyone tells me that Brie's like the Katie Holmes.
- [06:04]
A
I never watched Creek either, and I don't normally like to admit that out loud.
- [06:09]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [06:09]
A
It's like when someone says they haven't seen Titanic. Like who? It's insane. But because you said it first, I feel comfortable.
- [06:17]
C
No, my husband. Can't believe he references it all the time. I'm like, I've never.
- [06:23]
A
Have you said this in public before?
- [06:24]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [06:26]
A
Okay, well, I'm Stassi Schroeder and I've never seen Dawson's Creek. That feels good.
- [06:30]
C
Okay, good, good, good, good.
- [06:31]
A
I got that off my chest.
- [06:32]
C
I'm proud of you.
- [06:33]
A
Oh, you're proud of me? Well, speaking of proud.
- [06:35]
C
Oh, no.
- [06:36]
A
Thanks for my next question. What has been your proudest moment since starting the show? I know that has to be really tough.
- [06:44]
C
I don't. I mean, I really don't know. I think that the reaction to season two was very special because I felt like the show just really found itself in season two. I will say that there was a moment at the premiere of season two when we revealed Diana and Pippa Kiss when the crowd just absolutely shrieked with surprise, which was just. It was extremely satisfying. I heard that the Kardashians and Jenners love the show, and if that's true, that makes me really happy and very proud. I don't know if that's true, but I've heard it from multiple people, so I think it's true.
- [07:29]
A
Yeah, no, I'm sure it is, but the way that, like, yeah, if I heard that the Kardashians were big fans of mine too, I'd be like, I mean, it. Just throw me out.
- [07:37]
C
Pretty fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah, that made me happy. I think that they mentioned a group chat that they have. I know. This is all. I'm hearing it, like, through, you know, a bit of telephone. But still, I believe it's true. I think it's true.
- [07:49]
A
I believe it. Okay, so everything is about sex except sex. Sex is about power. Okay, so how does that quote relate to this show?
- [08:02]
C
I love that quote, I don't know if I really agree with it, but no one knows who actually said it. People say that Oscar Wilde said it, but he actually didn't. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I. I love that quote, but I don't really agree. I do think everything is kind of about sex, but I'm, like, kind of a pervert, so maybe that's why I. But I. I do think that most our drive is to, like, you know, be desirable so that we can have sex, so that we can make more people. I think it's just biological. But I don't think that sex is always about power. I think there are always power dynamics in sex, but I don't know that that's always what it's about. But I will say, certainly in this episode, in episode three, the power dynamics within the sex scenes with Lucy and Alex are pretty intense.
- [08:55]
B
You seem like a nice person, but I feel like you're someone who needs a lot of reassurance right now, and I'm not that guy.
- [09:03]
D
You're, like, the least reassuring person ever. You've actually been kind of mean to me most of the night.
- [09:10]
B
Maybe you're looking for that.
- [09:13]
C
That's definitely about power, but also the power in, like, giving up power and the safety in that, you know, Lucy going down, this sort of, you know, sexual urge that she has to be submissive and to be kind of degraded, but knowing that she's doing it within a safe space. You know what I mean?
- [09:33]
A
Will you tell me about your decision to, like, intertwine the scene at the end with Alex and Lucy having sex?
- [09:44]
C
The tape.
- [09:44]
A
With the tape.
- [09:46]
C
So it's really funny because I had come up with the tape storyline before we started the room and then. But I didn't know what episode it was gonna be, you know, and then we got to that episode and we knew the sex scene was happening. We knew the tape was happening. And then it was one of our writers, Mona, and was like, I have a crazy idea. I remember the look on her face when she said it. She was like, I have a crazy idea and I think you might hate it. And she was like, what if we intercut those scenes? And I was like, that's fucking amazing. I mean, I tell her, I'm like, that's like my favorite pitch that anyone had this whole season. It's so good. And, yeah, I think it worked really well. Just because it's this moment of this shame spiral for Lucy and this sort of punishment that she is inflicting because she thinks she Deserves it. And. Yeah, but it was the first time we. I never think anything is too much. Like, people are always like, megan, that's too much. That's too dark. I never do. The first time I saw a cut of that scene, I was like, oh, like, we might have gone too far and we had to pull it back a little bit. It was darker before, but I think it's. I love that whole scene. I thought our director, Ed, did a great job.
- [11:01]
A
I want to get into that part actually, with Lucy because obviously we see the complexity of her sexual assault claim because, you know, it starts out with her thinking that she's doing something good. And at first it's just like a little lie that then snowballs and grows.
- [11:21]
D
I lied about being sexually assaulted last semester. Lydia's brother. I told people, you assaulted me because you assaulted somebody else. And she didn't want to come forward. So I say, he did it to me.
- [11:34]
A
What do you want people to take away from that story? That was one of the. To me, one of, like, I thought about that storyline more than all the others.
- [11:45]
C
Yeah.
- [11:45]
A
Because I was like. But I think Lucy's right. I think I would have done what she did.
- [11:52]
C
Yeah.
- [11:52]
A
Like, not. I would have wanted to speak up for my friend and knowing that she couldn't. But then she became this bad guy for it. And Pippa was so mad at her, which rightfully so for Pippa to be mad, but also, can you be that mad? Like, she was doing it to help you? Like, I've struggled with how I feel about this storyline.
- [12:16]
C
Yeah. No, I think a lot of people did. When I pitched it, I had a night where I was, like, wired and I couldn't sleep. And at 4am I had this idea for the storyline. I was writing it down on my phone. I came into the writer's room the next day, and I was, like, a wreck. I was like, guys, I have an idea. And I pitched it. And some of the people in the room were really offended by it. And they were like, we absolutely cannot do this. It's undermining of women. And that kind of made me want to do it more. But, yeah, a lot of people were offended. But I agree. I don't think Lucy. I think. I think she did a dumb thing, but I don't think she. It's like, is something good because of how it turned? If the intention is good, is it good? Or is it because of. Is it only okay if, like, the consequences end up being. You know what I mean? Like, if it doesn't work Out. Well, is it then bad? You know, like, how much does intent matter, basically, is the question that's important.
- [13:11]
A
How much does intent matter? And to me, it matters a lot.
- [13:15]
C
For me, it matters a lot. And I think that her. Her intention is just desperate and good. And I think they're in this situation where there's a system that does not help these girls and she doesn't have anything else to rely on. And she makes a very snap decision. But I don't know what I mean in terms of what I want people to take away from it. I think I just like the idea that people are talking about it. But I do think that the way that Lucy gets, you know, like, even in this episode, the way that Lucy gets punished for this thing, it's so much worse than any punishment we've seen Chris get at this point. And I do think that, you know, girls on campus, whenever they talk, especially back then when they talk about assault, I feel like they get treated so much worse than the guys who are accused.
- [14:13]
A
It is important to remember that, like, this was to 2008.
- [14:18]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [14:19]
A
No, it's.
- [14:20]
C
It's.
- [14:20]
A
While today we might know better. We know. I mean, we're older now, but like, you know, hopefully 20 somethings everywhere know better. Back then, that would have been me. Yeah, I would have done that.
- [14:34]
C
Yeah.
- [14:34]
A
Yes.
- [14:34]
C
What Lucy did.
- [14:35]
A
Yes.
- [14:36]
C
I think that means you're a good friend. I mean, I think Lucy's. I. I think she's a good friend. I think she's sort of, you know, making herself the sacrificial lamb in that moment. But it's misguided because it then creates a whole clusterfuck of other issues. But, yeah, it is. It feels so recent, but the sexual dynamics with young people were so different. It's been even I'm in my 30s. The cast are all, you know, when we started the show, a lot of them were in their early 20s. And it was really interesting filming one scene where Diana is like, stop. But she's not like, stop. And like, stop. She's just like, wait, stop. And Steven isn't supposed to immediately stop. He's like, wait, what? And Jackson was like, if someone is saying stop at all, even in the calmest way, I'm like, on the other side of the room. And I was like, I understand that, but not in 2008. Like, that wasn't. There would have been a pause there, you know, And I. I mean, how many times? At least for me, you know, so many times in my early 20s, joking with girlfriends or Having my girlfriends joke with me, like, oh, he was kind of rapey. And it's like, that's bad.
- [15:45]
A
Yeah.
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C
That's crazy.
- [15:46]
A
Wait, I used to use that word all the time.
- [15:48]
C
All the time. All the time. And, you know, you write off these instances, and it's not until years later where you're like, oh, that actually was very deeply traumatic. And that. That caused a lot of behavior in me that was really bad. Yeah, no, it's. It's a different time. But I also am like, it. I'm sure. I mean, I. Obviously, terrible behavior is still happening behind closed doors. I think, at least publicly, people aren't allowed to admit it as much.
- [16:22]
A
Yeah.
- [16:23]
C
If that makes sense.
- [16:24]
A
How do you guys prepare for a scene like that? Whether it's physically or just, like, emotionally, people are being vulnerable. But, like, that physical and emotional, that darkness. Like, how do you. Do you guys get together and have a chat and hold hands?
- [16:40]
C
We just talk through the scene. You know, I mean, I. I pitched them. I pitched each actor their kind of season before they'd gotten all the script. I sat down with them and with our producing director, Tyne, and just told them, this is like the big arc. But with that scene specifically. We were auditioning Alex's, and then we flew Costa in to read with Grace, and he was doing a scene from 4 where they're referencing 3, but neither of them had read 3. Cause they didn't have the scripts yet. And I remember it was actually very funny. Cause they're like, can you just, like, explain to us what's happened? So I'm, like, in the room with the casting director and Costa, who I've just met, and Grace, and I'm just explaining it all out loud. And then as I'm saying it, I'm like, bright red. I'm like, this is so much more embarrassing, me saying it out loud than, like, writing it on a piece of paper. And it was funny. Their faces were both like, oh, okay. No, but you just. People know what the show is. And I have a very good relationship with all the cast. They know that they can call me about anything. I also know, you know, more or less, like, who's gonna be more comfortable with certain things, who's not. Because we just know each other very well at this point. But it's. Yeah, a lot of conversations. And we have an intimacy coordinator who, you know, goes through the scene with them and says everything they don't want to do that they want to do. And that list is given to me from the intimacy coordinator. So that they never feel like they have to look at me and say no to anything.
- [18:11]
A
Yeah.
- [18:11]
C
Because that's gonna feel like pressure. And I think sometimes they might want to be like, yeah, yeah, I'm cool with that. If they're talking to me and they're. And I don't want them to feel that way. So. Yeah, just a lot of. A lot of talking about it and a lot of. We plan the physical beats, like, to a. Like, it's everything. Every step is planned out. We do it like a stunt, so there's no surprises. There are no hands going anywhere that someone's not expecting. There's nothing that's a surprise on the day.
- [18:42]
A
On days like that, which, like, I imagine are hard, especially just, like, that scene. And the way, you know, what do you do when you get in your car and go home? Like, how do you decompress? How do you. How do you.
- [18:58]
C
Like, Honestly, a lot of times I'm editing while we're filming, so I have to leave set and go, like, work with my editors, which is a lot. I do. This is actually very nerdy. I do a lot of puzzles. No, I do. I love. It takes me out of my.
- [19:13]
A
Do you do it, like, without music or show or.
- [19:16]
C
No, I listen to a PODC podcast or a book on my headphones.
- [19:20]
A
At least there.
- [19:21]
C
It's very nerdy of me, but I've gotten other people into it.
- [19:24]
A
Can I ask you, what types of puzzles do you like?
- [19:27]
C
It's very specific.
- [19:27]
A
Yeah, tell me. I had a feeling.
- [19:29]
C
It's, like, super Americana. Like 1950s. Like, Thanksgiving tables. Like.
- [19:38]
A
I'm gonna send you one. I'm gonna find you a puzzle. Please, I'm gonna send you one.
- [19:43]
C
I love puzzles.
- [19:44]
A
It has to be a thousand.
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C
It has to be a thousand pieces. A thousand five hundred is too big. I realize there's a limit. I realize that the hard way.
- [19:53]
A
Okay, we have to talk about the music. First of all, did I tell you. I don't know if I told you that I am the exact age. Like, I went to college at the exact years that these kids did. So when I listen to the music, like, when I hear postal service on this, I'm like, oh, my God. This really is me who chooses the music.
- [20:15]
C
I get to choose the music. For the most part. Yeah, it's my favorite. Not my favorite part, but it is very fun. Cause I was also in college at this time, and so I just get to basically relive all of my. All the songs that I was crying to during high school and college. So I make a playlist before every season while I'm prepping for the room. And then I send that playlist to the writers, the directors, the editors. And sometimes I'll write specifically, this song needs to be in this scene. Sometimes I'm like, I don't know what song is here, but just pick something from the playlist. Sometimes people will throw something in that's not on the playlist. Like, in the next episode. There's a great song that our first ad, Emily, actually picked. And we have an amazing music supervisor, Maggie, who helps clear all of it. And if there's a song that I want but I can't clear or we can't afford, she'll give me comps and stuff.
- [21:12]
A
I was just about to ask that. Pricey.
- [21:15]
C
I. So everyone laughs at me on set because I'm insane about the music budget.
- [21:21]
A
I will.
- [21:22]
C
I'll be like, you can't build that wall, because I want to save 30 grand so I can have this song. And whenever our line producer, Matthew, sees me coming, he's like, what do you want? Like, how much money do you want from you? It's always. I'm, like, haggling with all the different departments because the music is like. I think it's a character in the show.
- [21:39]
A
It is.
- [21:39]
C
It transports you. Yeah. It changes. It's wild how one song can make a scene feel completely different.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah. Way more than a stupid old wall would.
- [21:49]
C
Yeah. We don't need a wall. We don't need any of that. We don't need a set.
- [21:52]
A
Just kidding.
- [21:53]
C
We don't need. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's. I love the music. And then our composer, Jay, he creates all the scores.
- [22:01]
A
Do you think it's harder to direct, like, emotional intimacy or physical intimacy? Like, what types of scenes do you feel like are harder?
- [22:11]
C
I think it depends on the scene and on the actor, you know? Cause everyone has different things that they sort of thrive in. Obviously, the sex scenes are, you know, a day on set when you know it's a sex scene. There's just, like, a different feeling in the air.
- [22:29]
A
Is it like. Is it like a darker feeling, or is it just, like, not as fun?
- [22:36]
C
It's not a darker feeling. It's just a much more careful feeling. You know what I mean? First of all, it's like a closed set, so there aren't as many people there. Yeah. It's just everyone's being careful because they know that people are stressed. They know that they're nervous. I mean, no matter how many times you've done These. It's weird to go on set and take your clothes off at work, for sure. And it's like. It's very vulnerable. But I will say, sometimes the sex scenes, you know, the sex scenes that are just like, this is just romantic, or this is just. Those are not that hard at this point. I think whenever there's any sort of violent or rough aspect to it, those are the ones that I always am there for. Like, even if I'm in LA editing, I'll fly in for those scenes because I just feel like I need to be there. I just feel responsible.
- [23:22]
A
Yeah.
- [23:23]
C
And so those ones are usually. Yeah. A little hard.
- [23:27]
A
Okay.
- [23:28]
C
But the emotional scenes are also fucking hard.
- [23:31]
A
All right, well, I'm gonna end this and wrap this with one more question. Okay. I think I feel like I could guess what you would say, but would you rather confess your darkest secret on camera or tell your best friend you slept with her boyfriend?
- [23:46]
C
Oh, my God.
- [23:47]
A
You came up with it. This is on you. You did this to yourself.
- [23:50]
C
I mean, I would rather. I. I would rather. Yeah, I did. You're right. I would rather confess my worst secret on camera.
- [23:58]
A
Same.
- [23:58]
C
Oh, no, my.
- [24:01]
A
I wouldn't do.
- [24:02]
C
I would never fuck my friend's boyfriend.
- [24:03]
A
Though, if you were in Lucy's position. Oh, would you rather go and tell Bri or film that video?
- [24:11]
C
I think she should have just told Bri. I think Lucy needs to talk to an adult. Yeah, I think she needs an adult.
- [24:19]
A
Where is her mom?
- [24:20]
C
She's not speaking to her. They have a bad relationship. You know, it's not bad enough. It's not that bad. No, I know. I know. No, I think that that's. Lucy needs antidepressants and an adult who can give her some guidance.
- [24:32]
A
Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for being so open. Thank you.
- [24:35]
C
This was so much fun.
- [24:36]
A
That's it for this episode. Thank you so much to Megan for helping us process this week's Tell Me Lies drama. And thank you for coming along for the ride. So stay tuned for next week's episode of the Tell Me Lies official podcast. And don't forget to share, follow and subscribe wherever you like to listen, watch and listen to Tell Me Lies official podcast, available on Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss Tell Me Lies now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply.