We're All Spiraling

Summary

Tell Me Lies: Official Podcast

Episode: We're All Spiraling
Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Stassi Schroeder
Featured Guests: Jackson White (Steven), Spencer House (Wrigley), Jay Wadley (Composer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the spiraling drama of season three, episode two of "Tell Me Lies," focusing on the evolving friendship between Steven and Wrigley with actors Jackson White and Spencer House. Host Stassi Schroeder also welcomes the show’s composer, Jay Wadley, for an in-depth look at the series’ musical identity. The episode blends playful banter, emotional honesty, and behind-the-scenes stories—offering an insider’s take on everything from relationship dynamics to on-set friendships and the creative process behind the show’s unique soundtrack.

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Rapid Recap: Season 3, Episode 2

[00:06 - 02:04]

• Brie tries befriending Amanda (the freshman seen leaving Oliver’s office previously)
• Evan connects the dots about Brie’s older, married lover and attempts a confrontation—ending up asking Oliver for relationship advice instead
• Steven grows more volatile with Lucy, threatening to tell Brie about her hook-up with Evan
• Panic and confessions: Brie opens up to Lucy, who panics over how close Brie is to learning the truth
• Pippa calls Alex (the campus drug dealer) to help with Lucy’s anxiety; Brie realizes she recognizes him
• Lucy stands up to Steven after he asks her to choose between him and Brie—she chooses Brie, ending things (for now) with Steven
• Diana and Pippa finally kiss

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Karaoke Antics & Cast Chemistry

[02:41 - 04:10]

• Discussion kicks off with the karaoke scene from the show
• Spencer House shares, “Spencer got up and did Nickelback. He did ‘Photograph.’” [03:13]
• Stassi admits, "I don’t karaoke. I have a giant stick up my ass and I’m scared of embarrassing myself. But I would really give anything—I'd pay $20,000 to go with you guys and watch you karaoke." [03:19]
• The group jokes about their comfort (or lack thereof) with karaoke and the general weirdness of remote interviews

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Steven & Wrigley: Friendship on the Rocks

[04:10 - 05:34]

• Jackson on the characters: “We used to be really good buddies...I think Wrigley’s getting hip to the tricks.” [04:10]
• Spencer: “Wrigley’s growing and Steven’s staying in the same place.” [04:36]
• Stassi relates it to real life: “It's a normal thing in your early 20s to have that friend you just make excuses for. At some point you wake up and you’re like, okay, maybe not.” [04:53]

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Lucy’s Choice & Steven’s Toxicity

[05:32 - 07:05]

• Key plot point: Steven makes Lucy choose between him and Brie, and Lucy chooses Brie
• Jackson’s reaction: “Good. Good growth. Good for her. He’s bad. He’s bad. Bad news.” [05:48]
• Jackson reflects on Steven’s possessiveness: “That feeling is real... and then Steven’s like a sociopath, so he doesn’t... he’s just fucking possessive.” [06:49]
• On whether Steven respects Lucy’s choice: “Maybe he’s impressed. Maybe he’s like, cool. Good chess move. Nice.” [06:57]

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On-Set Vibes: Bromance, Bonding, and Gamer Nights

[07:05 - 16:11]

• The cast genuinely hangs out both on and off set
• “We’re all pretty tight knit. We lucked out in that way.” - Spencer [07:28]
• No major gossip on set. “For all the negativity in the things that the characters do... there’s not a ton of gossip.” - Spencer [10:06]
• Spencer’s practical style: “I don’t like to wear shoes that I couldn’t just pull the car over and run up a mountain.” [11:39]
• On “cast group chats”: multiple, sometimes exclusionary for logistical reasons or planning surprises [12:08]
• Fondest memory: “We got like a random party bus one night... when the adrenaline was still going and we’re like TV! And then we got a party bus. I hated that night so much.” - Spencer [13:32–13:47]
• Both Spencer and Jackson dislike loud parties and drinking, preferring low-key hangouts and video games:
  • “We play a ton of video games together. Dark Souls, original Halo, tag football. It was like a bunch of college nostalgic stuff.” - Spencer [14:26–15:46]
  • “We sound... I think it sounds great.” - Both, affirming their wholesome off-screen friendship [16:02–16:06]
• Stassi on authenticity: “Fans can see through bullshit. Viewers are smart. You guys are being yourselves and it’s fascinating.” [16:16]

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Reality TV & Upbringing

[17:03 - 21:00]

• Stassi reflects on her early reality TV days, sharing a story about competing on "Amazing Race" as a teenager [17:16–18:59]
• Fun exchange about childhood, goth phases, and family dynamics
• On step-parents:
  • Stassi: “I've had four stepmoms.” [19:39]
  • Jackson: “I've had three.” [19:43]
  • Both discuss how this shaped their commitment in adult relationships [20:00]

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Families and Fame

[21:00 - 22:18]

• The conversation covers siblings, parents’ relationship status, and how real-life families react to the show
• Jackson: "My little sister is not allowed to watch this." [21:15]
• On fan interactions:
  • Jackson: “It’s a lot of like, ‘Oh my god, I hate you.’ And you’re like, ‘I know. I’m so sorry.’ But I get it. It means we’re doing our jobs.” [21:56]

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Typecasting & the Actor’s Insecurity

[22:21 - 24:21]

• Stassi asks Jackson if he worries about being typecast as a "psychopath":
  • Jackson: “That is the insecurity of doing something that becomes popular — okay, now I’m going to be this... But as soon as you come out and do something else, you remember you have an eclectic instrument. We all do.” [23:06–24:21]

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Favorite & Hardest Scenes

[24:29 - 26:17]

• Pool party and party scenes are favorites for their fun and camaraderie
• Hardest scene: “The sauna scene in season one... I was just. It was just frustrating.” - Spencer [24:39–25:21]
• Mutual respect shines through:
  • Spencer: “Jackson’s one of my really close friends, but I also just love working with you because you do it so great. It’s just so fun working with you... when we have a scene, it’s like playing ping pong.” [25:49–26:07]
  • Jackson: “Me too, I love when we get to do something. It’s easy, you know?” [26:08]

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Behind the Score: Interview with Composer Jay Wadley

[27:02 - 35:00]

• Jay’s karaoke pick: “The Killers. It’s an easy one.” [27:13]
• On the show’s distinct musical style:
  • Covers (e.g., Gnarls Barkley, The Killers) chosen and reimagined to match the emotional tone and story
  • “Megan [showrunner] had the idea to do those covers initially. She has very clear ideas... so Kat and I would reimagine [songs] in the sound of the show.” [27:46]
• Character themes:
  • Steven’s “manipulation” guitar motif
  • Lucy and Steven’s organ “tension” chord
  • Wrigley’s “intimate, reflective” piano theme [29:07–30:14]
  • Music themes blend as characters evolve
• Blending licensed music and original score to create nostalgia and cohesion:
  • “The fusion of those various sounds creates something that’s familiar but also fresh.” [31:34]
• Jay’s process:
  • Watches locked episodes, collaborates with the editor and showrunner, tracks character themes through the season [32:46]
  • Uses prior season’s score as placeholders during new edits and adapts as needed [31:48]
• On karaoke anxiety:
  • “Growing up as a theater kid... karaoke becomes more of a competition than actual enjoyment.” [33:32]
• Trivia: Jay graduated from Yale School of Music [34:27]
• Joke about whether Steven could be a “Yalie”:
  • Jay: “I don’t think, ideally, no. Someone with a little better character.” [34:40]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stassi: “I would really give anything... to go with you guys and watch you guys karaoke.” [03:19]
• Jackson: “Wrigley’s growing and Steven’s staying in the same place.” [04:36]
• Spencer: “We’re all pretty tight knit. We lucked out in that way.” [07:28]
• Jackson: “Fans can see through bullshit... Viewers are smart. You guys are being yourselves and it’s fascinating.” [16:16]
• Jackson on acting: “As soon as you come out and start reading something else, you’re like, ‘Oh yeah, I have an eclectic instrument. We all do.’” [24:05]
• Spencer on hard days: “The sauna scene in season one... It was just frustrating.” [24:39]
• Jay Wadley: “The fusion of those various sounds creates something that’s familiar but also fresh.” [31:34]
• Jay (on Steven being a Yalie): “I don’t think, ideally, no. Someone with a little better character.” [34:40]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recap of Episode: [00:06 – 02:04]
• Cast Banter & Karaoke: [02:41 – 04:10]
• Steven & Wrigley Relationship: [04:10 – 05:34]
• Lucy’s Choice: [05:32 – 07:05]
• On-Set Bonding & Group Dynamics: [07:05 – 16:11]
• Reality TV and Upbringing: [17:03 – 21:00]
• Families and Fame: [21:00 – 22:18]
• Typecasting & Acting Process: [22:21 – 24:21]
• Behind the Scenes Faves & Challenges: [24:29 – 26:17]
• Composer Jay Wadley Interview: [27:02 – 35:00]

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Final Thoughts

This episode captures the warm, chaotic, and sincere camaraderie of the "Tell Me Lies" cast and crew. It offers fans not only entertaining stories and relatable confessions, but also an intimate look at character development, relationships both on and off screen, and the artistry behind the show’s distinctive music. Whether you’re here for the drama, the bromance, or the behind-the-scenes magic, this episode is a must for any fan seeking a deeper connection to the world of "Tell Me Lies."

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome back to Hulu's Tell Me Lies official podcast.

[B]

I'm your host, Stassi Schroeder, and each week I'll be analyzing episodes, getting behind the scenes stories, and digging into all the drama with the cast and crew of season three of Tell Me Lies, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. And on this episode, I'm freaking out because Jackson White and Spencer House are here to talk about all things Steven and Wrigley. We'll talk about how the relationship between their characters has evolved and what season three has in store for two of Tell Me Lies leading men. I'll also chat with the show's composer, Jay Wadley, about how he creates the show's signature sound. But before we get into all that, here is a recap of this week's episode. So Brie goes out of her way to befriend Amanda, the freshman girl she saw leaving Oliver's office last episode. Meanwhile, Evan puts it together that Oliver is the older married man Brie was sleeping with and tries to confront him, but somehow ends up asking him for relationship advice. I mean, weird. Steven continues to crash out towards Lucy and threatens to tell Brie about her and Evan. Bree opens up to Lucy about everything she's reeling from last semester, and Lucy realizes what she did and just how close Brie could be to finding out and has a panic attack. So to calm her anxiety, Pippa calls Alex, the drug dealer who sold them that mdma. And Bree finally realizes how she knows him when he comes over to sell them Xanax. Lucy calls Steven out for punishing her, but he turns it around and makes it all about him. I mean, always. And asks Lucy to choose between him and Brie. Lucy chooses Bri and they're done. They mean for now. And things heat up between Diana and Pippa, and they finally kiss.

[A]

Stassi, can I go ahead and apologize? I thought I was supposed to do the intro. I actually wanted to apologize about that. Jackson, where are you seeing us? Right.

[B]

This feels real.

[C]

So I'm in Oklahoma, right?

[A]

No, no, I know that, but where are you? Where are you? Am I looking at you right now?

[C]

Oh, no, absolutely not. This is insane.

[B]

Okay, I'm gonna start asking some questions. We're gonna keep this fun. All right? So this episode.

[A]

Can I look at Scratch?

[B]

I don't really know where we're supposed to look. This is the most fucked up, weird thing I've ever done.

[C]

Okay, let's just do. Let's just do logistics for, like, the.

[A]

Next, like, three yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

Go ahead.

[B]

In this episode. God, Stephen, you're so diabolical. It starts with the karaoke, and you leave Lucy to karaoke by herself. I want to know what is your go to karaoke song?

[C]

I did. I just thought of one. It was. What's.

[A]

It's Michael Jackson, right? Didn't you do a Michael Jackson style?

[C]

No, Brandon did. Remember Brandon? Did Brandon do Man in the Mirror?

[A]

Something like that.

[C]

Spencer did. Spencer got up and did Nickelback. He did Photograph, and it was.

[B]

Oh, you would.

[D]

That was a good one.

[C]

It was perfect.

[A]

That was a big one.

[C]

It was perfect.

[A]

It was perfect.

[B]

A little thing about me, I don't karaoke. Cause I have a giant stick up my ass, and I'm scared of embarrassing myself. So I like to sit and watch people and just. But I would really give anything. In fact, I'd pay. I say I'd pay $20,000 to go with you guys as a group, all of you, and watch you guys karaoke.

[C]

Really? That. We can do it.

[A]

We've done it before, man.

[B]

We couldn't even manage to get you here today.

[C]

We've done it before.

[B]

All right. And I don't know who should probably answer this, but let's just. We'll feel it out. How do you guys think Steven and Wrigley's relationship has changed by this point in the series? Right now we're at episode two in season three. Who wants to take the lead on that one?

[C]

Well, we used to be really good buddies. I don't want to give anything away, but I think Wrigley's getting hip to the tricks. Right, Spencer?

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I think that's the main thing. Hip to the tricks is a good way to put it. And starting to become a little bit.

[C]

I've always wondered, like, I've asked everybody this every year. I'm like, why are they friends with this guy?

[B]

Oh, yeah, no shit.

[C]

We'll try and inject humor into it. And then it's like, this isn't funny. This is not funny. He's horrible. So I've asked that question a lot. And then. And so now it's finally catching up to him. And Wrigley's growing and Steven staying in the same place.

[B]

You know what? I think it's like a. It's kind of a normal thing in your early 20s to have that friend that you just make excuses for. Cause you just. You've been friends with them for enough years, even though, you know it's only a few years for you guys. Enough years towards like, well, that's just how he is. Well, that's just how he is. And you accept it. And then at some point you wake up and you're like, okay, maybe not. I want to come. But you go to the wedding, so no one really totally wises up to you.

[C]

I don't know how we made it to that wedding.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I'm so confused. I'm like, how.

[D]

Who.

[C]

What address did they send that invitation to? That's insane.

[B]

Also in this episode, and this is for you, Jackson. Stephen makes Lucy choose between him and Bri, and she chooses Bri. Did you see that coming when you were reading the scripts? What was your reaction to that? It's good.

[C]

Good. Good growth. Good for her. He's bad. He's bad. Bad news.

[B]

I was shocked watching it because Lucy has never chosen anyone over you.

[C]

I feel like we've all had that experience where you get. You. You have jealousy of something that does not directly interfere with your relationship, but your brain decides to make you believe that it's a threat. I've had those experiences where you're like, it's not logical. His is taken to the 10th degree and it becomes super toxic. But that feeling is real, of like, oh, this relationship is so precious to me, and there's outside factors that are interfering and I gotta try and protect it, even though you don't and everything's okay. That's like the more human version of what it would be. And then Steven's like a sociopath, so he doesn't. He doesn't, you know, I don't know. He's just fucking possessive and he's.

[B]

Do you think any part of him is, like, proud of her in that moment? Or is he incapable of actually even feeling pride in somebody else?

[C]

Maybe he's impressed. Maybe he's impressed. Yeah, maybe he's like. Maybe he's like. You know what I'm saying? Maybe he's like, cool. All right, good chess move. Nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Cause I don't. He's not. He doesn't go deep like that.

[B]

And he's like, thanks for giving me another reason to spiral. Hate you and get you back because I was bored for a second. I want to know how you guys spend your downtime on set. What are you guys doing together? Are y' all this tight knit group of friends that just like. Or do you go into your separate green rooms? What are y' all doing?

[A]

No, we.

[D]

We're.

[A]

We're. We're all pretty tight knit. We lucked out in that way.

[C]

Yeah. I think there's a lot of casts that don't get along, or so I've heard. And we're all really good friends.

[A]

Yeah. Which has been great because those are long days. And so it makes it. I mean, who you work with makes the job for the most part.

[B]

So you guys hang out. That's what you do on set.

[A]

You're like, we do. We hang out outside of set, too. And a lot.

[B]

You know, I actually. I never feel fomo, like, ever in my life. Like, it's, like. Weird thing. I feel Jomo. Joy of missing out. But seeing how much y' all like each other and being such a big fan, I feel FOMO that I'm not part of this friend group. Like, I kind of feel like I should be there.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Is that weird?

[A]

Come along.

[B]

Do people say that to you guys when they see you out in public? Like, never. I've never. Okay, never.

[C]

Not once.

[B]

Now, having met everyone, I've loved talking with everyone. That. That's what's making me feel like I'm a part of this, too, you guys, and I'm.

[C]

No, of course you are. This is genuinely. This show brings so much joy to people. They love the community of it, even if it's horrible and toxic. It's like, those are your favorite shows. You think you're one of the group. The first show I did that with was, like, Friday Night Lights. I thought I was on the football team.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, you just. I was walking around talking like them. It's like. It's the best. TV has that power, especially when you have, you know, a soulful, grounded ensemble. That's what we have. Like, everyone's kind of, like, real. And that's something I love about.

[A]

That's something I love about this cast is everyone brings it.

[C]

Yeah, everyone. Everyone brings it.

[A]

And that doesn't. That doesn't always happen, unfortunately, but every day, everyone tries to make it worth watching. And we. And we have a great crew as well. And so it's.

[D]

It's just.

[A]

It's nice to. It's nice to show up to work and have everyone care.

[B]

I love to hear that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was the most fun scene you two have shot together in all.

[A]

In all the three seasons?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, I like that pool when we were all jumping in and you got the bowling ball. We're doing baby powder cocaine together and.

[A]

Yeah. B12, I think.

[C]

And you're having sex with a pillow.

[A]

Yeah. That was more fun for everyone else.

[C]

Yeah, that was. Yeah. Right. Okay.

[A]

No, I don't Know, being that naked on set, there's a lot more people behind the camera than you'd think.

[B]

Who is the biggest gossip on set? Y' all are gonna be like, no one.

[A]

I think that's part of why I love this set, too. And it goes back to what we were talking about. There's not a ton of. There's not a ton of gossip for. For all the negativity in the. In the things that the characters do on. On. You think the show. Yeah, well, I feel. Well, I'm pretty gabby.

[B]

He nominated. Steven nominated himself. That's so Stephen, I guess, saying. It's like when he took responsibility for the letter, that I feel like everyone's.

[C]

Like, did you hear? I feel like everyone's a little. No, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's just me. Grace and I are like, chip, chip, chip, chip.

[A]

Yeah, maybe no one brings it to me. I don't know. But I.

[C]

No, you go, maybe it's me.

[B]

Maybe they're in the chat without you.

[A]

He's gossiping about me.

[C]

You don't indulge. I won't speak on that. That's true.

[A]

When it comes to gossip, I feel like if you indulge, people go, oh, and unload. And if you don't, it's kind of like, oh, I don't want to. I don't want to.

[C]

Like Spencer. Spencer is the most set in his way and his demeanor and his. This is a good thing. I'm not. You're not stubborn, you're generous, but you are the most sure of your personhood, I would say.

[A]

Oh, well, thank you. That sounds like a cool.

[B]

What a really nice guy.

[C]

And here's an example. That outfit he's wearing, he wears it every day.

[A]

It's true.

[C]

Those are North Face shoes that he wears every day. He has two pairs of them. One of them's green and one of them's brown. And he'll alternate.

[A]

I don't like to wear shoes that I couldn't just pull the car over and run up a mountain. And you know what I mean? Yeah, why would I?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel a smile.

[A]

And they put you for red carpets when they put you in dress shoes. I'm like, why would anyone wear these? You can't do anything in these shoes.

[B]

Yeah. If you can't run up a mountain, what the fuck is the point?

[C]

It's practical. That's a shirt jacket. That's a shacket. And he has three shackets that he hangs by the door. And he says, mm, I'm gonna do Blue today.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Do you guys have a group chat? Like a cast group chat?

[C]

Yeah, we have like a few. There's like a few with like certain people not in it. Cause and that, you know, what I mean is like, you know, someone will have a birthday and then it'll be like, everyone but that birthday person.

[A]

Yeah. Or like, or like, you know, it's like if you're all like, hey, we're gonna go, we're gonna go to a movie or something and then, and then someone's like, I can't make it. We're not gonna keep annoying them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you make a new, so you make a new chat full of everyone but that person. And then, and then you forget because you just click on the last one.

[C]

And then that's what happens.

[B]

Someone doesn't care about the things left out because of the most recent group chat. And then do they get their feelings hurt or do they understand how it.

[A]

Everyone's prep positive. There's no, like, really, there's no weak links.

[C]

I, I, I have, I have. I, I get my feelings hurt. Like, do you guys, Aren't you guys throwing balls into a pingpong thing later? Dude, I'm jealous.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You can't make it.

[C]

I was.

[A]

Well, you just weren't in the chat.

[B]

What do you think was the most cast bonding moment that you guys have had on set?

[C]

Anytime we're in a big party thing, it's great. Cuz we're all in one room and we're getting food together and we're like fucking around, playing cards and you know, we're boring.

[A]

We're not like, I don't know, because the lake house was pretty close to the end of season one. Was there like a moment, Jackson, that you remember from like the very beginning when everyone started clicking and I can't remember.

[C]

We got like a random party bus one night. Remember that?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And it was kind of like when the adrenaline was still going and we're like tv. And then we got, and then we got a party bus.

[A]

Yeah. Everyone had such a good time. I hated that night so much.

[C]

You do?

[B]

Why did you hate it?

[A]

I don't like that stuff. It makes it, it reminds me of when I was like the kid who was like, afraid to dance at the bar mitzvah.

[C]

Oh yeah. I hate.

[A]

Oh yeah. I don't like. It's so loud.

[B]

I agree with you.

[A]

I don't, I don't like to.

[B]

It's overstimulating.

[A]

I don't drink but neither of us drink.

[D]

And.

[A]

And like whenever you go to bars and everyone's just drunkenly yelling and you can't hear them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the music's really loud.

[C]

Yeah, I'm with you, man.

[A]

What are we doing here?

[C]

That's our thing, dude. That's brought us together. Cause we're the guys standing there, like, should probably go home, right?

[A]

Yeah, it was like water.

[C]

And then we'll end up, you know, shacking up.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

And playing video games.

[A]

And we play a ton of video games together. Yeah, we play a lot of dark stuff.

[C]

Should we talk about Game Station? Just Stassi, do you wanna know about video games?

[B]

I wanna know about video games.

[A]

This is the best thing we have ever done. You know, nowadays you're on a screen all the time and you're not with people and it's kind of lonely. So we were like, well, rather than Xbox Live it, let's put two big screen TVs in one room and we'll play Dark Souls for anyone. Yeah, Dark Souls. And we can, like online, warp into each other's games. But I mean, we're right there with each other and we're on the couch together for, like, a long time.

[C]

The illusion is shattering, isn't it?

[A]

Stasi a long time.

[C]

We are not.

[A]

We're not as toxic men as you think we are.

[B]

I mean, I don't know. I've watched Wrigley and Steven play a lot of video games. It's all kind of tracking.

[A]

And then we did things for fun we would do for fun.

[C]

Kayaks.

[A]

Kayak. Well, yeah, I'm very outdoorsy, so we do a lot of outdoor stuff. But we hooked up the original Halo in between takes. Cause that made us feel like we were in College in 2008. And that was fun.

[C]

Play football. It was like a bunch of college nostalgic stuff.

[A]

We were just playing tag football.

[B]

It's so cute of you guys. You know, reworking video games, trying out football, going kayaking, drinking water, leaving the party bus early.

[A]

Yeah, that's a theme. Us leaving it.

[C]

God, we sound.

[A]

I think it sounds great.

[B]

I think it sounds great too, actually. I'm gonna be honest with you.

[C]

I know. I'm judging it. I'm judging it, but I love it. The only reason I'm judging it is cause.

[B]

Yeah, like, this is all interesting. As a fan, we should make up.

[A]

Stor to what people want to hear.

[B]

No, this is interesting. Fans want the truth. Fans can see through bullshit. Like, viewers are smart. They can tell when someone's lying. In an interview, they can tell when someone's pretending to be something that they're not. You guys are being yourselves, and it's fascinating for me.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

Okay, good.

[C]

You have. This is what you do. I mean, like, my girlfriend is like, you're her hero. And so how do you do it? You guys have to disappear the cameras more than we have to disappear the cameras. You have to.

[A]

That's what we should do. Let's turn this around. I want to hear that.

[C]

No, no, no, I'm serious. Because this is the best acting. This is the best naturalism. You can watch. It's like. It's. The only thing I watch now is reality tv. Yes. Because it's. It's. If you want real, that's real. And how do you guys. Do you get camera conscious?

[A]

You should watch. Tell me Live.

[B]

No, I don't. I think because I have done it for most of my life. Like, I started doing reality TV when I was 16 years old. It's all I know how to do.

[A]

What show was that?

[B]

Amazing Race. Don't go back and watch it.

[C]

Amazing Race.

[B]

Really? Don't go back and watch it. I should never have said it. Don't put it in your. And don't use it against me later. Okay. Does it.

[A]

Does. Does that you travel around the world?

[B]

I was, like, a wannabe goth teenager.

[A]

Were you really?

[B]

I was wannabe? Yeah.

[A]

I would never guess that, but I love to hear that.

[B]

Everyone goes through weird phases in their lives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is he writing down?

[C]

I'm looking it up.

[B]

No, no.

[C]

Oh, my God. Is this your family?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Your family was on Amazing Race.

[B]

Why did I even.

[A]

That's so sweet. Was it like a bonding experience, or were you all like, get me out of here.

[C]

What do you guys do? Is it like, Fear Factor?

[A]

Why the hell did you race?

[B]

Did I say anything? Like, I dug my own hole.

[A]

Was it like a foot race?

[D]

No.

[B]

You really had to race around. I went through an ugly phase. Steven DeMarco, Wrigley.

[C]

What are you. What are you talking about? You're.

[B]

Everyone goes through an awkward phase.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

Don't tell.

[C]

You guys are children. You're children and what. And this is your family, and you have backpacks on, and you're in. You're in front of a landscape.

[A]

Can you send me that. Can you send me that real quick?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I want to look at it.

[B]

This is my word. I wanted, like, I'm cool, I swear. No, you really did race around. You race around the world you race around the world. My dad put me in this position when I was 16, and then because of that, I was introduced into reality tv. And then all these reality things just fell in my lap. It's like reality TV calls to. I can't escape it. It's a part of who I am.

[A]

And is this you with the black hair?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. No, that makes sense. So, like, if you're that early, it's.

[A]

Like kids start acting. You didn't go through an ugly phase though, but you look very different.

[C]

Kids who start young, that's a different field. But they have something. They're comfortable. They can snap into it a lot quicker.

[B]

You just live, you just exist. While cameras are around you, you're close to your brothers. I hope that there's editors that can make the best of it afterwards.

[A]

Did it bring your family close?

[B]

No, she's not my stepmom anymore.

[A]

Oh, damn. Well, it's good to know.

[C]

I also know a few stepmoms.

[A]

It's good to learn.

[B]

You have how many? We could go toe to toe. I've had four.

[C]

I've had three. I've had three stepmoms.

[B]

Do you think that that makes you. This is just a personal question. Do you think that because you've been through so many step parents, that is going to make you such a committed person when you're in a relationship? Because I feel like that's what it did to me.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

My.

[C]

My parents marriage was. It didn't exist when I was growing up. They split up when I was young. So I have a concept of exactly what you're saying. Like, it's higher stakes to stay together. For me, it's like a different. It's a different thing.

[B]

Yeah. Do you have any step parents?

[A]

No, my parents are happily married. They met when they were 16.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

They've been dating since.

[B]

Their energy.

[A]

I've been told that.

[B]

Yes. You give off happily married parents since they were 16. That's lucky.

[A]

Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing.

[B]

That's really nice.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Do you have any brothers or sisters?

[A]

Yeah, I got two older brothers.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jackson, do you have any siblings?

[C]

Yeah, I have two sisters.

[B]

Younger or older?

[C]

I'm the middle, so I have an older sister and a younger half sister.

[B]

Are they after a while? Cause I know they watch the show. They have to watch the show. Are they. What do they say to you?

[C]

My sister's an actor and my mom's an actor and it's all very. It's not it doesn't cut deep. It's more just like, hey, good job on your thing. If they check in, great job with your. With your job. And my little sister is not allowed to watch this.

[B]

How old is she? She's in college and she's not allowed to watch it.

[C]

She doesn't watch our. Or, you know, anything the family does. But I did go to her college. I went to visit her at her college. And some you can notice on college campuses. People watch this on college campuses.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So you see people on those and they like the show.

[B]

What do people come up to you and say to you, oh, mine's the worst? Yeah.

[C]

I don't know about you, Spencer, but I get.

[A]

No, mine's fine. I'm sure yours is not.

[C]

Well, I don't want to say the worst. I don't want to say the worst. That's actually. You can cut that out.

[B]

No, I would imagine it's the worst.

[C]

The truth is, I've never met an impolite fan. I've never met somebody who is intrusive. But it is a lot of like, oh, my God, I hate you. And you're like, I know, I'm so sorry. And come on, give me a hug. But I get it. It's great. That's a good thing. That means we're doing our jobs.

[A]

Yeah, the fans are really great.

[C]

Yeah, they're great.

[B]

Do you ever worry that because you are so incredibly gifted and talented at playing psychopaths that that is all anyone is ever gonna wanna cast you as?

[A]

No, no, no.

[C]

Of course, Stassi.

[B]

Wait, when you say my name, I get chills. I just gotta say that. Okay. It feels like Steven is saying, of course, Stassi, but I know you're just so good. And I mean this as a compliment because you're so good at it that, like, if I'm a casting director, I'm casting you for every fucking villain in every fucking movie.

[C]

No, thank you. Thank you. I don't mean to. I think what I. It's. That is the insecurity of doing something that becomes popular is. Okay, now I'm going to be this as a. Now this is what it's going to be.

[A]

Yeah, but it's just insecurity. But it's just insecurity, though, because, I mean, you're off doing a completely different thing right now, you know?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I don't think it's. I don't think it's.

[B]

Wait, shit, did I just add to that insecurity by asking that question?

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

We're all sitting here in a bunch of self doubt right now. No, no, no, no.

[C]

If you're.

[A]

If you.

[C]

If you're. If you're sitting at home and you're not working and you're sitting at home and this show comes out and you're like. And you're talking about it and you. And you start feeling like this is. This is who I am now, then you totally get in your head. But yeah, as soon as you come back and you start reading something else and you're working on something else, or you're doing an audition or you come out of it because you're like, oh, yeah, I have an eclectic instrument. We all do. And so we can be people. And what makes this show work is that everyone's just trying to be people. We're not trying to go in there and. And be cookie cutters and say these things. And I think that's why this show, it grounds itself. I think it's special that way.

[B]

Oh, man. Just one more question. Okay.

[A]

That was a great answer, though.

[B]

Fuck. It really was. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What would surprise people about your. In real life? Friendship or. What was the hardest scene to shoot? And I'm just gonna let you guys choose where you want to go with that.

[A]

The hardest scene to shoot was for me, I think you were fine. But for me, the sauna scene in season one, I don't really know what was happening, but we were having a lot of trouble.

[C]

Oh, I do remember this.

[A]

And then just really bad timing. We were having a lot of trouble and it was like a frustrating day. And Grace and Sonya got in towels and came in as like a joke.

[C]

And it just like they were coming.

[A]

Into the sauna and it was just a bad. It was just bad timing. And we were like, can you. Can you leave? And it just like fell flat. It was bad. And it was on me. I. I was just. It was just frustrating. I. I remember that.

[C]

That was your hardest. Yeah, I remember those.

[A]

I think it was just something.

[C]

I love that scene though. Yeah, that seems one of my favorite scenes.

[A]

I'm happy with the scene.

[C]

Yeah, it's very. I love those scenes that are like, we're gonna say normal lines, but there is just layers of dirt underneath it.

[A]

Do you have one?

[C]

They're all hard, man. I gotta go in there and try and make people feel bad. It's not. I don't. Dude. It's exhausting, dude.

[A]

Jackson's one of my really close friends, but I also just love working with you because you do it so great. And it's just so fun working with you because your eyes are just. It's just always keeping me on my toes. And so when I see on the schedule that we have a scene coming up, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be a day that's like, just like playing ping pong a little bit.

[C]

Me too.

[A]

With the script.

[C]

I have a. Thanks, dude. Me too. I love when we get to do something. Cause it's. It's easy, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I am so here for this bromance right now. This is so sweet.

[C]

These are some moments. Fassi.

[B]

Okay, cool. I have been told to wrap it up, and that makes me really sad. This is. This was so fucking fun for me. When we're back, Tell Me Lies composer Jay Wadley talks about the show's signature soundtrack. Okay, so this week's episode, Jay starts at a karaoke bar. What is your karaoke song? Like, your go to karaoke song? Do you have multiple.

[D]

I. You know, I came from a music theater background, so there was a lot of music theater in that. But as of late, it's actually been maybe a little bit more appropriate to this. The Killers. Oh, there you go.

[B]

Everyone loves the Killers.

[D]

The Killers. You know, like, it's an easy one.

[B]

When did you graduate high school?

[D]

Oh, that's gone. Date me. 2001.

[B]

Okay. I'm 2006. So, like, the Killers were huge for me in high school.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So when I hear a little bit of the Killers on Tell Me Lies, I'm like, oh, here we are. Here we are again. They did have the Killers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

Killers. Yeah. And we did a cover for the Killers as well.

[B]

I think it's Cat Missile. Yeah. Yes. Can you tell us how that Gnarls Barkley and the Killers cover song, how that came together for season two?

[D]

Yeah. Well, Megan had the idea to do those covers initially. You know, she has, like, very clear ideas on what types of music she wants to use, what things she wants to call back to, and very clear associations with that. So she had the ideas to kind of of dive into those songs. And then Kat and I. So Kat would kind of do an initial pass with her vocal interpretation with a very pared down, like, piano vocal type of arrangement. And then I would strip the instrumentation back and then kind of reimagine it in the sound of the show. So it was. And then there were lots of, like, back and forths on how we would, you know, deal with pacing and then how it would work for a scene, and then we would rework it for the actual release of the album. So it was a cool back and forth. I mean, her voice is incredible. It's like she's an. A brilliant singer and she's got so much character. And so, yeah, it was just fun to kind of dive into that and try to bring those songs and kind of turn them on their head, you know. Cause the Gnarls Barkley Crazy is a much more like, lively song. And so how do you kind of subvert that and then make it into something that's dark and kind of brooding and a little bit more reflective of like Lucy's inner dialogue?

[B]

Yeah, no, it's really fun. Okay, so tell us about your approach. This might be broad. Okay. To creating the score for the show. Like, do certain characters have different, certain sounds when you're thinking about it?

[D]

Yeah, definitely. And I would say that was even like, that was most true in season one when we were establishing characters and establishing their themes and their sounds, they were a little bit more specific to a character in a certain situation. Like when Steven would turn on his manipulation sort of faucet, if you will, then we would kind of go toward that guitar driven theme for him. And then we had that sort of. I think the chord that people now say is sort of toxic trigger for them when they hear in the like, organ the sort of like, you know, little pulsing organ bit, you know, that is sort of the tension between Lucy and Steven. And then, you know, in season one, Wrigley's theme is one that's like near and dear to me. It's more piano driven, sort of intimate, reflective piece that kind of, you know, charts his journey through the loss of his brother. And then it kind of evolves over the various seasons and those themes start to kind of blend into one another as like the characters are kind of going through their own struggles. So, you know, you start seeing some of the manipulation themes transition into a different character, which is kind of cool.

[B]

Now I'm gonna have to watch it all back. Fine, twist my arm. I'll do a rewatch. Cause now I wanna just watch it and just pay attention to the score. Like, that's so interesting. Lynn, how do you use the pieces of songs from like, okay, around like 2008, 2009, combined with your original score to create the world of Tell Me Lies?

[D]

You know, I don't really. In the score, I'm not trying to necessarily like the past versus the now, if you will. The song choices that they use in music supervision, they are trying to be a little bit more time Specific or year specific to those things. And then my score is supposed to be able to kind of seamlessly blend between the licensed music that would be specific to that time period and just kind of be able to maneuver in and out of those things. So when thinking about the sound, I wanted to create something that was reminiscent of some things that you might have heard between the 2000s and the 2000s, if you will. So, like, guitars that you might have heard, like guitar sounds that you might have heard in the xx. And like, chords that you might have heard through, like, Radiohead or something like that. And then mixed in with, like, vocal chops that may be a little bit more modern and, like, now that you would hear in, like, hip hop or electronic music. And so the fusion of those various sounds kind of creates something that's familiar but also fresh.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah, that's, like, scientific. Do you know what I mean? That's art meets science. Has your approach changed with season three and how you do everything for season three?

[D]

I think part of it is kind of staying true to the character's tonality, but it's more about letting it open up. And I think the things that have surprised me about the show and the score and how it's worked in the series is like, as we go forward and they're doing edits, they're using my score from the previous season to kind of put in there as placeholder. Yeah. And so then I watch it with that, and I'm always pleasantly surprised. It makes me feel good. Cause it's like, all right, this is already working in a way that I wouldn't have necessarily anticipated. And I might not have put that there, but now I can rework that and kind of find a new language for that character.

[B]

Wait. Cause I was gonna ask you. Basic bitches everywhere wanna know. Okay, we've all seen the holiday. All right. And so the way I imagine this works is that you are shown the episodes and you are there creating the score as you are watching it.

[D]

Yep, that's pretty much how it goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I essentially, as they're editing the stuff together, I'll get, like, rough edits and early edits. And I would say I come in now, later in the episode than I did in first season. I was working to rougher edits. But now what's called locked is once the edit is finished is mostly when I come in now and I watch the whole episode down and talk with Megan and the editor and everyone on the team and talk about what music is doing where it goes in, where it goes out, what it's trying to say, what character it relates to, what their mentality is. And we really talk about how we track those themes across the episode or across the season and kind of chart out the way we're going to navigate that.

[B]

Do you want to give us a little karaoke taste of it?

[D]

Oh, my gosh. On the spot?

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, I would hate if somebody did that to me.

[D]

Well, you know, I will say I don't love karaoke. And as part of my. Because, you know, growing up as a theater kid and a music theater kid in particular, you're constantly singing in front of people. And then when you go and you want to, like, hang out and have fun and you're around a bunch of music theater kids, everyone's trying to one up each other. So it becomes more of a competition than an actual, like, you know, fun enjoyment.

[B]

I feel you. Cause I was a musical theater kid too, and I have always had a sneaky suspicion that that's why I don't like it, because I can, like, maybe carry a tune if I'm doing, like, theater singing, but I'm not a good singer.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't want to get up there and compete with people who are trying to, like, one up each other and, like, they're actually good at singing. And so that's why. Yep. You'll catch me in the chair judging.

[D]

I'll have a drink and I'll hang out and I'll be very happy doing that.

[C]

Love it.

[B]

So you went to Yale School of Music?

[D]

I did, I did.

[B]

Do you think Stephen has a chance of becoming a Yalie? Is that what they call them? Yalies.

[A]

Yalies, yeah. Yep.

[B]

Did not know that. You know, is he the type of student they're looking for?

[D]

I don't think ideally, no.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I think hopefully someone with a little bit better character.

[B]

Yeah, you would think. But, like, you know, in order to go to those top schools and in law, you gotta be a little. You gotta play dirty a little. He might be a Yalie.

[D]

We'll find out, I guess.

[B]

Anyway, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me this week. Thank you so much to Jackson and Spencer for unpacking the boy drama on the show and to Jay for taking us behind the music of Tell Me Lies. But most of all, thank all of you guys for joining us. If you haven't already, don't forget to share, follow and subscribe and stay tuned for next week's episode of the Tell Me Lies. Official podcast now available wherever you like to listen, watch and listen to Tell Me Lies official podcast available on Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss Tell Me Lies now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.