Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Episode: Daron Malakian - ON METAL (Part 1)
Date: December 31, 2025
Theme:
A deep-dive into the evolution of heavy metal music, led by Daron Malakian (System of a Down), with detailed listening sessions, band histories, and personal reflections, tracing the genre from its roots through its most transformative eras.

Main Theme and Purpose

Daron Malakian, joined by Rick Rubin and fellow conversationalists Chris and Sam, embarks on a comprehensive journey tracing the genesis and development of heavy metal music. The conversation weaves through proto-metal, classic acts, the rise of subgenres, and personal metalhead origin stories, all accompanied by listening to seminal tracks and critical riffs. Listeners receive not only a music history lesson but also get insight into how these sounds shaped Daron’s musical identity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Proto-Metal and Early Heavy Sounds

• Power Chords & The 60s Foundation:
  • Daron credits British acts like The Kinks’ “You Really Got Me” and The Who for pioneering the hard-hitting sound that would become central to metal.
  • Early Beatles (“I Want You”) flirted with darkness, hinting at what Sabbath would become.
• Psychedelic to Heavy:
  • Psychedelic music of the late 60s (High Tide, Cream) began shaping what would become heavy metal, morphing folk and blues into something "darker."
• Quote:
  • “I don't know who invented the power chord… but you could put into a heavy metal song or change the notes a little bit and make it darker and that riff will become pretty heavy." —Daron (00:02)

2. The Birth of Metal: Sabbath’s Impact

• Black Sabbath as the Metal Blueprint:
  • Sabbath is positioned as the first “true” heavy metal band due to their “doom,” darkness, and unrelenting heaviness across entire albums.
• Comparison with Contemporaries:
  • Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, etc., are labeled as heavy but not fully “metal”; Sabbath’s consistency and lyrical themes were fundamental.
• Quote:
  • “Sabbath brought the doom… the name of the band, this Black Sabbath, just—they brought in a feeling of vibe that to me was the sound of heavy metal.” —Daron (05:00)

3. Key Riffs: The Spark of Genres

• How One Riff Can Change Everything:
  • The host trio listens to and deconstructs pivotal riffs (Cream, The Kinks, High Tide), highlighting how even one powerful riff can birth entire subgenres.
  • Distorted guitar (intentionally tearing speakers for effect) is discussed as a technical breakthrough (“You Really Got Me”).
• Quote:
  • "Their sound was massive…I always saw the Who as like an example for Led Zeppelin of what a band should be.” —Daron (00:11)

4. Etymology and the Naming of Metal

• From “Heavy Metal Thunder”
  • The term heavy metal is traced to Steppenwolf’s “Born to be Wild,” paralleling how “rock and roll” was named from song titles.
  • The rise of descriptive subgenres as bands pushed boundaries.
• Quote:
  • “The name heavy metal came from the Steppenwolf song… genres as we'll get into… were kind of named by songs or bands like death metal, black metal…” —Daron (09:34)

5. Transition into Harder, Faster & Theatrical Eras

• Evolution from Early 70s Bands:
  • Budgie, Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore: Unsung proto-metal, influencing Metallica and others via both sound and dual guitar antics.
  • The importance of image and theatricality—KISS’s visual style married to Sabbath’s music becomes a meta-template for 80s metal acts.
  • American vs. British differences are noted, sometimes you “hear the place” in the music.
• Quote:
  • “It's the image of the demon, the fire breathing, the blood… just seeing them. Maybe KISS's music wasn't as heavy as what Black Sabbath was doing, but Black Sabbath didn't look like KISS.” —Daron (26:50)

6. New Wave of British Heavy Metal (NWOBHM) and its Legacy

• Blues Out, Speed In:
  • Bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Scorpions remove blues roots, embrace twin guitar attacks, fantasy lyrics, and sharper, faster energy.
  • Judas Priest/Scorpions dress the part—leather, spikes, BDSM imagery—codifying the metal "look."
  • Iron Maiden’s shift from blues/psychedelia to intricate, classical-leaning phrasing; personal stories from Daron about learning the guitar through these songs.
• Quote:
  • “What are you not hearing, though? Blues… It feels almost more related to like classical.” —Chris & Sam (47:24–47:37)
• Memorable Moment:
  • “When I first saw KISS, it scared the shit out of me. But I couldn't stop looking at it.” —Daron (26:50)

7. Personal Metalhead Evolution

• Initiation Stories:
  • Daron recounts that as a kid, metal’s forbidden thrill and taboo (alleged devil-worship, shocking album covers) drew him in, even before hearing the music.
  • Record store rituals, the allure of album art, and parental resistance form a backdrop to his formative metal years.
• Quote:
  • “The fantasy aspect… it's almost like they're cartoon characters… I was very young, so in my head they were fucking cartoon. I was still watching cartoons at this time in my life." —Daron (42:37)

8. The 80s: Fragmentation and Heaviness Escalates

• Thrash and Power Metal:
  • The aggression and technicality escalate: Metallica, Slayer, King Diamond/Merciful Fate, Metal Church, and Candlemass represent new branches—thrash, doom, and the origins of “extreme metal.”
  • Bands like Motorhead and Venom straddle punk and metal, influencing both scenes with their velocity and attitude.
• Scene Change:
  • “The press starts has to put a label on it in some way. So when did heavy metal start? I don't know…” —Daron (24:28)
  • Underground and indie labels (Road Runner, Metal Blade) become breeding grounds for new scenes.
• Quote:
  • “There was a technical proficiency… with Motorhead, it's superpower slurp… But James's [Hetfield] riffing… it's so tight.” —Chris (97:53)

9. Punk and Metal Influences; Drumming and Production Evolves

• Metal Merges with Punk:
  • Discharge and Bad Brains are cited as punk acts whose intensity and repetitive, assaultive structure directly inform thrash (especially Slayer).
  • Drumming transitions from jazzy looseness (Bonham, Moon) to locked-in, double kick aggression.
• Notable Drummer Highlight:
  • “The thing about Dave Lombardo is… no matter how fast it gets, it's always groovy… it never sounds like…it's always swinging.” —Chris (92:22–93:15)
  • Daron recounts jamming with Slayer’s Dave Lombardo and being awed by his improvisational fluidity.

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Origins of Power Chord Metal: 00:02 – 01:33
• Darkness in The Beatles and Sabbath's First Heavy Influence: 01:34 – 05:19
• Cream and Metal Riffs: 03:01 – 04:47
• Black Sabbath’s Defining Qualities: 05:00 – 06:34
• Kinks – Distorted Guitar’s Shock Value: 06:42 – 07:41
• High Tide and Psychedelic to Doom: 07:46 – 09:28
• How “Heavy Metal” Got its Name: 09:33 – 09:41
• Sabbath’s “Symptom of the Universe” & Evolution: 11:23 – 13:27
• Dual Guitar Innovations (Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden): 33:38 – 38:05
• Theatrics and Early Metal Imagery (KISS): 26:50 – 27:37
• Personal Discovery and Metalhead Upbringing: 39:55 – 43:19
• British Metal Moves Past Blues, Iron Maiden’s Shift: 47:24 – 49:33
• Motorhead, Venom, and Early Thrash Foundations: 86:29 – 90:44
• Notable Drumming – Dave Lombardo, Slayer: 92:22 – 93:53
• Transition to Technical/Modern Metal (Metallica): 95:04 – 98:27
• Genre Naming, Press Influence on Labels: 24:28
• Punk/Metal Overlap, Underground Scenes: 80:30 – 85:53

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “One song or one riff can take a band… And someone who is listening to that would be like, I want to write more songs that are like this.” —Daron (06:21)
• “There's an emotion that heavy metal gives you, which is that fist in the air. Makes your face change into mean, grim face.” —Daron (36:32)
• “The kids that were listening to them… were about to be 18, 19, 20 years old and start bands.” —Daron (34:28)
• “A lot of these bands I would either find because I liked the album cover, or the guy at the record store knew what I liked and he would be like, check this out. It wasn't from mass marketing… It was underground.” —Daron (80:58)

Summary: The Metal Story So Far

This episode charts an energetic and obsessive course through the history of heavy metal—as music, as culture, as self-creation. Daron’s encyclopedic yet passionate take is matched by deep listening, scene-setting, and an understanding that heavy metal is as much about intention, feel, and tribal energy as it is about musical notes. The evolution of metal is both a history of sound and of attitude, with each new band and genre both rebelling against and building upon its predecessors.

The conversation closes on the threshold of thrash and the extreme metal of the late 80s, promising even darker and heavier sounds as the series continues.

This episode is a must-listen for music historians, metalheads, and anyone seeking to understand how a genre grows from a handful of distorted riffs into a worldwide subculture—rooted in both darkness and community.