Podcast Summary: Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Episode: Gavin de Becker, Security Expert
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Rick Rubin
Guest: Gavin de Becker

Episode Overview

This special episode features renowned security expert and author Gavin de Becker in conversation with Rick Rubin. De Becker shares insights from decades protecting high-profile individuals, his philosophy on intuition and violence prediction, the evolution of threats in a digital age, and why personal responsibility is the ultimate line of defense. He also discusses his new book Forbidden Facts, exploring how governments and corporations shape public narrative, and reflects on formative personal experiences, both professional and intimate.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Notable Cases from De Becker’s Career

• Understanding Perpetrators: The cases de Becker found most fascinating were those where he engaged directly with so-called perpetrators, confronting the complexity of motivation and sanity in unusual situations.
  • Hollywood Lawsuit Example: De Becker declined to testify that a man’s ambition to be both author and star of a proposed film was evidence of insanity. “It wasn’t crazy when Sylvester Stallone did the exact same thing.” (00:34, Gavin de Becker)
• Catfishing Before the Internet: De Becker describes investigating a case involving a "19-year-old model" engaged in phone relationships with various celebrities who turned out to be a 56-year-old woman skilled in psychological manipulation.
  • “She was brilliant and she had a relationship with my client...I came to respect her a lot.” (05:08, Gavin de Becker)

Digital Threats and Hacking

• Limits of Digital Security: De Becker distances himself from technical hacking cases, focusing on physical threats instead, yet warns that state actors have almost unlimited digital reach.

  • “If a government wants to get into your phone, there is absolutely no precaution of any kind to prevent it.” (05:37, Gavin de Becker)
  • The Pegasus 3 system used by governments requires “no click” from the victim—there’s simply no protection if you’re targeted at that level. (06:00)

• Corporate Espionage and Pharma Influence:

  • Major pharmaceutical companies, described as the “most criminally corrupt companies in America," deploy private intelligence services and digital attacks to quell dissent, citing the example of corporate efforts against Russell Brand and the COVID mRNA vaccine debate. (07:31)
  • “The worst people in the world. Who are they to pharma? They are people who question pharmaceutical products.” (08:27)

Forbidden Facts: Spotlight on De Becker's New Book

• Theme of the Book: Explores how powerful entities “debunk” inconvenient truths—Agent Orange, vaccine side effects, baby powder asbestos—often through the Institute of Medicine, which is revealed to be a private, not government, entity.
  • “The Institute of Medicine is the government’s debunker.” (12:49, Gavin de Becker)
• Suppression of Facts: De Becker shares leaked transcripts showing experts in “debunking” meetings focused not on science but on maintaining public policy and avoiding disruption.
  • “The point of no return, the line we will not cross is public policy that says pull the vaccines.” (16:20, quoting book transcript)
• Personal Responsibility: He stresses the need for individuals, especially parents, to educate themselves on what enters their bodies, invoking both humor and outrage about vaccine ingredients past and present (ground up rat spleens, shark liver oil, potassium chloride, etc.)
  • “If you ask me, right, it's zero [amount of asbestos that’s safe in baby powder].” (15:03)

Mosaic: Systematized Intuition for Threat Assessment (26:08)

• Origin and Purpose: Designed as “artificial intuition” to scientifically assess risk for domestic violence and public figures; originated on a napkin in a restaurant, now used by law enforcement and civilians.
  • “Spousal homicide and intimate violence is the single most predictable crime in America. And predictable means preventable.” (28:00)
• Accessibility: Free online for those at risk of domestic violence, co-launched with Oprah Winfrey.

Security for Public Figures & the Changing Nature of Threats

• Love Obsession vs. Hostility: Historically, attacks on celebrities were motivated more often by obsessive love than hate, though this is shifting with increased ideological violence.
• Media’s Role: Coverage influences motivations and outcomes; increased polarization, especially post-COVID, fuels conspiracy and ideological assassinations. (34:00–37:00)
• Evolution of Attack and Defense: De Becker outlines the trajectory from physical to remote (drones, car bombs) weapons, emphasizing the growing technical challenge of protecting public figures and predicting a future of virtual-only public appearances due to risk. (48:00–50:52)

Intuition and Personal Safety

• Gift of Fear Philosophy: Intuition is foundational to survival; we often suppress it in modern environments, to the detriment of personal safety. The original function is “to guard and protect,” and de Becker encourages listening to it. (67:45)
  • “It is basically knowing without knowing why.” (67:53)
• Red Flags in Relationships: Urges people to heed rapid escalation and controlling behaviors as primary indicators of risk. (103:08)

Government & Institutional Distrust

• Cynicism Gained Over Time: De Becker reflects on his changed beliefs about institutional motives—no longer convinced governments act in the public's best interests. (106:14)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If a government wants to get into your phone, there is absolutely no precaution of any kind to prevent it.” — Gavin de Becker (05:37)
• “When the government doesn’t want something to be true … it’s just not true anymore.” — Gavin de Becker (18:27)
• “I'm not anti-vaccine … but I am saying that parents ought to learn about it a little bit.” — Gavin de Becker (21:30)
• “Intuition ... is knowing without knowing why you know it.” — Gavin de Becker (67:53)
• “Every accusation against a famous person that's dated 22 years ago, 25 years ago, is [not necessarily] true or provable or remembered correctly by either of the parties.” — Gavin de Becker (65:07)
• On COVID-era lockdowns: “You could play guitar, but you couldn't play a wind instrument. Spread the COVID. It's funny now, but of course it showed what government is capable of doing.” (100:45)
• “Driven by distraction, not driven to distraction.” — Gavin de Becker, reframed approach to mindfulness in security (60:23)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:24–05:33: Memorable investigations and the psychology of deception
• 05:33–11:31: Digital security, hacking, Pegasus spyware, and corporate espionage
• 11:31–18:36: Forbidden Facts, suppressed information, and the Institute of Medicine
• 18:36–24:31: Book writing, vaccine history, and personal advice for parents
• 26:08–31:27: The Mosaic system and risk assessment
• 33:12–36:04: Attacks on public figures, love obsession, and ideological motivations
• 43:29–48:00: Weapon evolution: from close-range to remote and drone threats
• 62:23–63:10: Personal anecdotes on distraction and mindfulness
• 65:53–70:35: On intuition, its value, and supporting its development
• 80:32–85:49: Social media, AI, and new kinds of risk
• 103:08–106:09: Red flags in relationships
• 106:14–106:34: Changing beliefs about institutional trust

Final Reflections

Gavin de Becker’s conversation with Rick Rubin is a winding, intellectually rich exploration of security, intuition, trust, and the erosion of privacy and certainty in the modern world. The episode carries a tone at once alarmed and wry, urging listeners to reclaim personal responsibility, develop their intuition, and see through the narratives spun by power—whether governmental, corporate, or algorithmic.

For those interested in personal security, the hidden workings of power, and how philosophy intersects with real-world danger, this episode is a trove of hard-won wisdom, sardonic humor, and actionable advice.

Resources Noted:

• Mosaic Threat Assessment Tool (Free)
• Gift of Fear Masterclass (Free)
• Forbidden Facts by Gavin de Becker

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