Podcast Summary: Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin – Ian Rogers (September 3, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Rick Rubin sits down with Ian Rogers, renowned tech executive and former music industry innovator, now at crypto security company Ledger. Their conversation traverses the evolution of crypto post-FTX, blockchain's practical adoption, AI's impact on creativity and daily work, the artistry and patience of luxury branding, and reflections on learning, culture, and pressure in creative industries. Honest, nuanced, and rich with first-hand experience, this dialogue offers a rare inside view of the crossroads of technology, music, and luxury.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution of Crypto and Blockchain

• Post-FTX Era – Pariah to Mainstream

  • Ian reflects on being ostracized after the FTX collapse, likening it to the dot-com crash of 1999 in its effect on crypto's reputation.
    • “In that moment, those of us who worked in crypto were a bit in denial as to just how much damage FTX had done… We really were persona non grata…” – Ian Rogers [00:02]
  • Despite not being involved with FTX, Ian experienced reputational fallout.
  • Over-investment and opportunism follow all technological revolutions (ref. Carlotta Perez).

• Institutional Embrace

  • The FTX episode was different because it involved the world’s biggest financial players. Now, institutions like BlackRock openly endorse crypto, especially bitcoin as “digital gold.”
    • “Larry Fink deserves a lot of credit for the way that he has spoken about bitcoin and blockchain…” – Ian Rogers [03:57]
  • Ethereum's reputation and price have rebounded; stablecoin regulations in the US have made blockchain-based payments viable for mainstream commerce.
  • The shift: technological maturity plus growing mainstream financial acceptance.

• Practical Blockchain Use

  • Most users will soon interact with “crypto rails” unknowingly in everyday life—for instance, paying with apps like Status Pay in small Italian villages because it's cheaper and faster than credit cards.
    • “For him it’s cheaper than if I pay with a credit card and it’s faster… He can spend that money immediately.” – Ian Rogers [08:22]
  • Regulation now enables instant digital payments at fractional costs compared to credit cards.

• Ledger as Premium Crypto Custody

  • Ledger’s devices secure about 20% of all crypto assets. Ian describes Ledger as a premium, privacy-first alternative to banks or payment apps—positioning it as the “LVMH” of digital value management.
    • “I’m very happy not to be PayPal... the one for people who care about security, privacy, self custody.” – Ian Rogers [10:12]

2. Real-World Crypto Payments

• How Payments Work

  • Through Ledger, users can load funds in bitcoin, Ethereum, or stablecoins (e.g., USDC, USDT), which convert to fiat at the point of transaction via a Mastercard, making crypto as easy to spend as cash.
    • “It uses the credit card system and it just converts that crypto money into fiat at that point of transaction.” – Ian Rogers [12:07]
  • Future: direct crypto-to-crypto payments via QR codes, further cutting intermediaries out.

• Regulatory Landscape

  • New US stablecoin regulations removed barriers for wider adoption of blockchain payments.

3. Blockchain’s Appropriate Applications

• When Does Blockchain Make Sense?

  • Ian is candid: not everything needs a blockchain. The best use-cases are issuance and trading—for example, NFTs, tokenized assets, and high-frequency but trust-sensitive transactions.
    • “Blockchains are very good at issuance and trading... If it’s not about issuance and trading, then a blockchain is probably not the right application.” – Ian Rogers [17:48]

• Trust Brokers for On-Chain Provenance

  • Even with on-chain provenance, trust brokers (analogous to Christie's, Patent Offices, or Clear at airports) will be essential for authenticating originality.
    • “Trust brokers will have a very important role... we are all going to need someone that we trust.” – Ian Rogers [22:07]
  • Fraud becomes more difficult, but not impossible; provenance becomes easier to establish but always needs layers of verification.

4. AI, Creativity, and Copyright

• AI and the “Gray Area” of Copyright

  • On AI-generated work, Ian argues for updated societal rules: outright copying is wrong, inspiration is inevitable, and AI’s ability to synthesize blurs lines further.
    • "We have to agree that it’s a gray area... AI is just an incredibly powerful tool to challenge that gray area.” – Ian Rogers [24:42]
  • Rewards for creative people should remain—but the frameworks need to adapt and will likely take years to settle.
  • New AI ad/support models will emerge, just as they did for “round one of the internet” (Google, Facebook, Instagram).
    • “We're just at the beginning of that journey when it comes to AI.” – Ian Rogers [27:34]

• Ads as Content

  • Ian makes a nuanced defense of ad models: sometimes ads become integrated content experiences (radio, magazines, Spotify, YouTube), and choices between paywalls and free-with-ads are important for accessibility.

5. Using AI Today

• Everyday Workflow

  • Ian leverages AI as a meeting prep/research tool, for capturing action items with tools like Google’s suite or note-taking apps, and as a “smart search” companion for non-touristy travel planning.
    • “I use it every day for sure... I try to prep every one of those meetings with AI.” – Ian Rogers [35:52]
  • He tells a story of using ChatGPT as a French tutor for his daughter—translating homework, building study guides, giving feedback reports.
    • “It kept her attention for 90 minutes... She probably enjoyed it more. And spent more time doing it.” – Ian Rogers [47:37]

• AI’s Shortcomings

  • Accuracy remains a concern: AI is astoundingly capable but also surprisingly wrong (e.g., incorrect skate ramp measurements).
    • “It’s amazing how amazing it is and it’s also amazing how wrong it can be… can’t really rely on it now.” – Ian Rogers [41:32]
  • Enterprises are prioritizing accuracy, and AI firms are investing heavily to solve it.

• AI Interfaces and the Future

  • Predicts future: every app will have embedded AI; current models will differentiate based on strengths, but a “Google-like winner” is likely.
  • User interface will move toward natural language “partner” interfaces—a true pair-programming model for any kind of creation.
    • “They’re describing ChatGPT5. It is an amazing pair programming partner.” – Ian Rogers [45:41]

• Memory & Personalization

  • AI can remember a user's preferences and conversations with potentially unsettling thoroughness. Users may not even recognize when their tastes evolve; AI might notice first!
    • “I told my ChatGPT to, whenever possible, make a Ween reference... I can’t get it to stop.” – Ian Rogers [57:17]

6. Branding, Storytelling & the Luxury Business

• Branding 101: Storytelling + Time = Value

  • Heritage, craft, and quality underpin luxury branding, and the value grows patiently over years.
    • “Storytelling plus time equals value.” – Ian Rogers [58:38]
  • Branding is distinct from viral consumer adoption—it takes patience and reinvestment.

• Case Study: Satisfy Running

  • Satisfy Running, a high-end running brand, waited ten years to expand product lines, focusing relentlessly on quality and slow, authentic growth.

• Efficiency vs. Identity

  • LVMH prefers preserving independent brand identities over centralizing operations, even at the expense of efficiency.
    • “If he was given a choice... He would always choose brand identity, go over that.” – Ian Rogers [63:53]

• Business Models and Creativity

  • The best creative investment happens when the business model permits patience and investment, unlike the “one-hit-or-out” music industry model.
    • “If you want the company you’re buying from to be great, well, they have to make money. It has to work.” – Ian Rogers [64:46]

7. Brand Longevity: The Beatles, LVMH, and Artistic Legacy

• Expanding Existing Brands

  • Drawing parallels between LVMH’s heritage brands and the Beatles: legacy brands bring in new creative directors and maintain relevance without direct lineage.
    • “I definitely think the Beatles are a brand now also... There's a lot to explore there…” – Ian Rogers [65:51]
  • Envisions new creative ways to grow legacy music brands, via technology and storytelling, not just rehashing the past.

• Storytelling in Culture

  • Books like John Higgs’s "Love and Let Die" illuminate how brands (the Beatles, James Bond) reflect and shape culture via layered storytelling.

8. Culture, Fashion, Hip Hop, and Luxury

• Culture Migrates Toward Luxury

  • Hip hop’s adoption by legacy brands is not surface-level but about genuine creative crossover and status signaling.
    • “In hip hop we would say real recognize real… but it’s a little more than that...” – Ian Rogers [78:07]
  • Pharrell at Louis Vuitton and Rihanna or Virgil: not “just” hip hop—they are culture makers.

• The Cyclical Nature of Fashion

  • Trends and creative leadership come from grassroots culture and later infuse luxury brands.

9. Metaverse and Augmented Reality

• Metaverse Skepticism
  • Ian doubts anyone craves generic 3D “shopping malls”—VR/AR has niche use (gaming, amusements), while AR holds more future promise.
    • “None of them land at 3D shopping mall... I'll believe people want to inhabit a three-dimensional world that isn't a game when they do.” – Ian Rogers [85:29]

10. Creativity, Pressure & Growth

• Pressure as a Creative Force
  • Ian candidly admits pressure improves his work, deriving motivation from fear of failure and the drive for excellence.
    • “I hate to say it, but it makes me do better work.” – Ian Rogers [87:44]
  • Anecdotes include legendary producer Jimmy Iovine’s challenging style, and NBA champion Tony Parker’s gratitude for his coach’s relentless pressure.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Technological revolutions always have a rush of opportunists… there’s a bubble. The bubble bursts, and then you get 30 years of sustained growth.”
  – Ian Rogers [00:02]

• “Larry Fink deserves a lot of credit for the way he has spoken about bitcoin... He’s been very clear and very well spoken about that.”
  – Ian Rogers [03:57]

• “For him it’s cheaper than if I pay him with a credit card and it’s faster… All of that stuff that’s in that system now. Is that crypto? Probably not… It just works and it’s a meaningful improvement for the merchant.”
  – Ian Rogers [08:06]

• “Ledger is the premium version of that… I’m very happy not to be PayPal. I’m very happy to be the one… for people who care about security, privacy, self custody.”
  – Ian Rogers [10:12]

• “Blockchains are very good at issuance and trading… If it’s not about issuance and trading, then a blockchain is probably not the right application.”
  – Ian Rogers [17:48]

• “Trust brokers will have a very important role… we are all going to need someone that we trust.”
  – Ian Rogers [22:07]

• “AI is just an incredibly powerful tool to challenge that gray area [of copyright].”
  – Ian Rogers [24:42]

• “Storytelling plus time equals value. You have these brands that have this incredible heritage.”
  – Ian Rogers [58:38]

• “Pharrell running Louis Vuitton… you just can’t put him in a box and say, oh, it’s that hip hop guy. They’re culturally much more meaningful than that.”
  – Ian Rogers [80:14]

• “None of [the consumer journeys] land at 3D shopping mall… I’ll believe people want to inhabit a three dimensional world that isn’t a game when they do.”
  – Ian Rogers [85:29]

• “I hate to say it, but [pressure] makes me do better work… That’s the specter I’m running from… pressure is good.”
  – Ian Rogers [87:44]

Timestamps for Major Topics

• Crypto after FTX, Perez’s theory: 00:02–01:49
• Institutional acceptance (BlackRock, Larry Fink): 01:58–05:51
• Ledger, payments, and crypto rails in daily life: 09:14–15:44
• Blockchain use cases, trust brokers, provenance: 17:39–24:32
• AI, creativity, copyright, models, ads: 24:42–32:38
• Using AI daily, education, accuracy concerns: 35:43–42:23
• Branding, luxury, Satisfy Running, LVMH: 58:38–65:51
• Beatles as a brand, storytelling, biopics: 65:51–74:03
• Fashion, culture, hip hop, creative crossover: 78:00–82:41
• Metaverse and AR musings: 85:23–87:39
• Pressure, excellence, and creative work: 87:44–92:36

Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in seeing technology, music, and culture not as discrete industries but as interwoven, evolving systems. Ian Rogers delivers grounded optimism, championing patient authenticity and resilient brands while embracing tech's rapid transformation—always with a sense of history, nuance, and lived experience. If you want to understand how innovation and culture entwine, this is essential listening.