Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Episode: Rupi Kaur (November 19, 2025)

Overview

In this deeply introspective episode, Rick Rubin sits down with acclaimed poet and performer Rupi Kaur. Through a candid and heartfelt conversation, Rupi explores her journey from self-publishing phenomenon to global literary star, navigating the challenges of creativity under commercial pressure, the evolution of her performance art, the role of social media, her cultural background, family dynamics, spirituality, and the ongoing dance between vulnerability and self-compassion. Listeners will come away with insight into Rupi's creative process, the healing power of poetry, and the universal search for authenticity and connection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins & Early Success

• Rupi recalls the uninhibited joy of creating her first book, milk and honey, written without concern for audience or outcome.
  • “It was probably the most creative, fulfilling experience because you're not really thinking about the outcome or the result. You're like totally swept up in the magic and lost in the moment and that source is just working through you.” (00:25)
• Despite skepticism from authority figures (“your book is not going to get published, nobody publishes poetry”), she self-published.
• The book’s explosive success at a young age felt “amazing, and then equally traumatizing.” (00:25-01:33)

2. Creativity vs. Pressure

• The demands of rapid commercial follow-ups led to an unnatural, punishing creative process for her second book.
  • “Writing became such a punishing act… my body became so sick and I would go through these like 72 hour migraine spells.” (02:39)
• Participated in a “dance” between heart-driven, organic creation and head-driven, anxious expectation.
• After a decade marked by external pressure and internal struggle, Rupi took a sabbatical to reset and again feel “that spark come back and that magic.” (03:52)

3. Performance Roots & Medium Evolution

• Rupi emphasizes she began as a performance poet in her activist Sikh community, not as an "Instagram poet".
  • “For me, it started on the stage…my sort of journey in performance comes so much from my political activism work within my Sikh community.” (04:03)
• Audience interaction has always been core: “It felt like the first time people were listening.” (04:26)
• The translation of performance poetry to platforms like Tumblr and Instagram forced her to reimagine the visual and textual brevity of poems (“peach pits”).
  • “I got really obsessed with this idea of redesigning what a poem, how a poem could look like visually and how it could come to life on paper.” (05:20)
• Instagram, initially an odd place for poetry, unexpectedly amplified her work.

4. Building a Live Experience

• Performances grew from 5-minute open mics to immersive, theatrical experiences that blend poetry, music, and informal storytelling—“almost like a form of standup comedy”. (09:26)
• Audiences are diverse and interactive, sometimes “half a party and half a sleepover with your best girlfriends.”
  • Shows start from “a tougher place…working through trauma and suffering,” moving towards joy and celebration. (10:29-11:24)
• Different regions bring different demographics and energies to her audiences, but the emotional experience is universal.

5. Identity, Social Media, and Sabbatical

• Rupi resists labels and the reduction of her identity to social media metrics.
  • “So much of how I define myself doesn't include social media at all. But so much of how people define me or why they find me valuable is my social media platform.” (17:04)
• Decision to stop posting new poems regularly was freeing but intimidating; it was an intentional break to reconnect with a more authentic creative impulse.
• She’s considering longer-form media (newsletters, podcasts) as social media feels increasingly limiting and misunderstood.

6. Writing Practice & Blocks

• Initially, she posted two new poems a week, but ultimately shifted away from the pressure of deadlines.
  • Now, creative seasons ebb and flow: “90% of the book…happens in here, like in the gut. That's where it's written. And so it tells you when it's ready.” (33:12)
• Discusses the heart–head–gut dynamic in creativity, recounting how her best work often comes when she doesn't force or overthink.
  • “Creativity is like trying to have faith in God or like religion. It's like I can't exactly put my finger on it and I can't point at it. And there's absolutely no proof. But I just have to have faith.” (53:09–53:32)

7. Process, Editing, and Revision

• Rupi favors a process of stream-of-consciousness writing, voice notes, and rigorous revision—but tries to preserve the “soul” of early drafts.
  • “Sometimes the first one with its imperfections is actually the best one.” (68:26–68:32)
• She eschews titles for her poems to avoid putting them “in a box” or being too leading. (74:59–75:14)

8. Personal Themes: Family & Background

• Talks candidly about her family’s immigrant experience, especially her tumultuous relationship with her father (a survivor of genocide and displacement), and the deep ties to her mother and younger siblings.
  • “My dad…he was cold and distant and mean because I think he was probably depressed. God knows a whole bunch of people.” (26:29)
• Feels she serves as a bridge—a translator—between her parents’ generation and her siblings.
• The ability to give her parents experiences (like family trips) they never had is a source of deep satisfaction.

9. Spirituality and Sikh Roots

• Raised in a Sikh household, Rupi discusses both her resistance to and appreciation for the depth of Sikh philosophy.
  • “We believe in this oneness, that we are all connected. And so, you know, we are everything and we are nothing all at once.” (38:33–39:48)
• Notes the poetic and musical nature of Sikh scripture, the communal and meditative aspects of kirtan, and how these traditions inspire her own writing.
  • “All of our texts are written in poetic verse…other people’s interpretation [often distorts them].” (40:23)

10. On Self-Compassion and Therapy

• Describes the shift from harsh self-criticism (“my inner narrator is my dad”) to practicing grace and catching negative self-talk. (76:49–77:28)
• Sees growth in narrowing the distance between her on-stage and off-stage selves:
  • “When I'm on stage, I'm like the woman of my dreams…But then I get off stage and I don't feel that person anymore. And so I'm working on bridging the gap…” (46:12–46:15)

11. Poetry, Performance, and Healing

• Writing and performing are both spiritual experiences, distinct but vital to her sense of self.
  • “Writing has always felt like a spiritual experience, which is something I had to accept when I was trying to make it very methodical.” (80:28)
• Poetry in South Asian tradition is communal and embodied, making her think Western approaches rob the form of its vitality and accessibility.
  • “In the east…it is given as much space and respect as music and film. And in the west…it's been, I don't know, put into this corner...” (85:17)

12. Reflections on Success and Future

• Early success brought both validation and a kind of existential crisis: what happens when you get everything you thought you wanted?
  • “I went through a midlife crisis at 22…you can have all of this and the popularity, and it all still feels empty. Nobody told me that.” (68:56)
• Ultimately, Rupi is optimistic and trusts in the unfolding journey of creative renewal:
  • "What I feel is very excited and this deep belief that there is greatness ahead…to get to that greatness, I can't use the same road that I used that first climb." (87:42–87:57)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• The Joy and Terror of Sudden Success:
  “This book became like a machine and got so noisy…It was amazing. And then equally traumatizing.” (00:25–01:34)
• On Creativity & Faith:
  “Creativity is like trying to have faith in God or like religion…it’s like I can't exactly put my finger on it and I can't point at it. And there's absolutely no proof. But I just have to have faith.” (53:09–53:32)
• On Navigating Advice and Doubt:
  “What’s terrifying me is what the well-meaning people around me are saying, which is… it's okay, Rupi…we just have to change what our idea of success looks like now…but it’s not helpful because you’re just like, oh no, you don't even believe in me either.” (56:54)
• On Self-Criticism and Healing:
  “My inner narrator is my dad. And so we're learning to let that go. It's an everyday practice.” (76:55)
• On the “Timeless” Poem Process:
  “They convinced me I only had a few good years left before I was replaced by a girl younger than me…Now for the main event, Curtains up at age 50. Let’s begin the show.” (49:54)
  [See entire recitation at 49:54–51:12]
• On Short Poems:
  “Probably the biggest critique I get is it's so short, but it just is a feeling that to me, it's the right way…the short ones are the hardest to write.” (79:52–80:09)
• On Poetic Structure:
  “Line spacing…that's the way the poem dances on a stage. More so the rhythm of what it sounds like…how it looks is important, but it comes second.” (78:38–78:54)

Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------| | 00:25 | Rupi’s journey self-publishing "milk and honey" and navigating unexpected fame | | 02:39 | The punishing process behind her second book and struggles with creativity under deadlines | | 04:03 | Origins as a stage poet—roots in performance and activism | | 05:20 | Translating poetry from stage to digital and visual formats | | 09:26 | Evolution of her live performance and building an immersive theatrical experience | | 11:24 | Description of audience demographics and universal emotional experience | | 17:04 | Reflection on social media identity and her decision to stop posting | | 33:12 | Writing as a seasonal, gut-driven practice; impact of deadlines | | 39:48 | Sikh spiritual foundations and the poetic nature of Sikh scriptures | | 46:12–47:22| On-stage confidence versus day-to-day self, therapy, and growth | | 49:54–51:12| Recitation and origin of the “Timeless” poem (downloaded inspiration) | | 74:59 | Discussion of poem titles and intentional “untitling” | | 80:28 | Writing as spiritual experience and rejection of overly methodical approaches | | 87:42 | Optimism and anticipation for the next creative chapter |

Memorable Moments

• Rupi performing the "Timeless" poem (49:54–51:12): A moving moment that encapsulates empowerment, aging, and the unexpected origins of inspiration.
• Recounting her dad’s shift from skepticism to pride (27:09–27:40): Upsetting tradition when he finally understood her work through the respect for books.
• Audience recitation at live shows (87:09–87:13): An emotional highlight, making Rupi want to cry—“It just makes me want to cry.”
• Dancing between vulnerability and control: The tension throughout between letting go (“being in the heart and gut”) and the urge for commercial or critical coherence.
• Closing optimism: Rupi’s belief that "there is greatness ahead," but the upcoming path must—and will—be different.

Conclusion

This episode provides a candid look at the intersections between art, vulnerability, and cultural identity, as Rupi Kaur and Rick Rubin engage in a thoughtful exploration of what it means to create authentically in the modern world. Rupi’s willingness to interrogate her past, experiment with new formats, and reveal her ongoing internal struggles offers hope, insight, and inspiration for creatives and audiences alike.