Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Guest: Tony Hawk
Date: September 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging and illuminating conversation, legendary skateboarder Tony Hawk joins Rick Rubin for a deep dive into the world of skateboarding—its subcultures, history, equipment, and enduring spirit. The two discuss Tony’s formative experiences in the skate scene, technical and cultural evolution of the sport, his journey through boom and bust periods, the impact of music and counterculture, and the process of invention and perseverance that has driven skateboarding to the global phenomenon it is today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Early Influences and the Roots of Skateboarding

[00:25–03:51]

• Tony’s early exposure to skateboarding via his older brother, a surfer:

  "I didn't take to surfing... I wasn't that confident in the water with big waves. Once we found skateboarding together, I really enjoyed it, but it was really intimidating." (Tony Hawk, 00:25)

• Skate parks as new, magical spaces:

  "I was like, I want to live here. I want to be in this world. And I got hooked." (Tony Hawk, 01:15)

• The punk rock influence and danger, the attraction to an unstructured, non-coached environment.

The Evolution of Skate Parks & Equipment

[01:36–17:34]

• The fleeting nature of early skate parks, insurance/liability issues, and their revival:

  "I didn't realize I was at the tail end of it because to me, it seemed like, oh, there are skate parks everywhere... But both my parents are working, so it was hard to get there as much as I wanted to go." (Tony Hawk, 01:40)

• Tony recounts seeing the Circle Jerks play in a skate park—illustrating punk’s integration:

  "All of a sudden, they all gathered in this one bowl... That is the cover of Circle Jerks Group Sex. And then the Circle Jerks started playing... I'm 10." (Tony Hawk, 05:56)

• A DIY, outcast mentality connects punk and skate culture:

  "There's a do it yourself aspect, but there's also just this outcast element of, like, we don't fit in, we don't belong, but we're gonna do what we want anyway... And that attitude, that mindset is very much aligned." (Tony Hawk, 06:19)

• Technological progress in equipment—urethane wheels, board/truck innovations.

Dedication, Innovation, and Practice

[06:56–13:36]

• Tony discusses overcoming bullying and his perceived lack of natural athleticism:

  "I was bullied endlessly in the skate world, but I was possessed... It was just repetition, perseverance, and a stubbornness, really." (Tony Hawk, 07:06)

• The 10,000 hours principle and embracing injury:

  "It was the 10,000 hours... I didn't want to get hurt, but I wasn't afraid to get hurt." (Tony Hawk, 08:03)

• Cross-pollination between skaters (Tony and Rodney Mullen), and the iterative nature of trick innovation:

  "The thing we identify within each other is this obsession with having to learn new stuff... The day after competition is when we were released and able to try new stuff." (Tony Hawk, 09:54)

The Changing Landscape of Skateboarding

[14:03–26:29]

• Skateboarding’s ups and downs, skate park closures, and transitions to backyard ramps and touring demos:

  "Skate parks, again, couldn't afford the insurance. They started closing. Skating was still considered a fad in a way. So it was like, all right, this cycle's over. And then skating went underground for the most part." (Tony Hawk, 25:11)

• The chaotic, youth-driven punk rock energy of early tours:

  "It was very lawless... It was very much like, I always think of, like, Beastie Boys or like punk rock show... except for be at the demo at this time. That was our rules." (Tony Hawk, 21:14)

Business, Culture, and Skateboarding’s Rebirth

[26:30–38:03]

• Founding Birdhouse, struggles with early 90s industry collapse:

  "I had a child on the way and two mortgages, and I was like, the whole bottom just dropped out. What's happening?... hoping that I could sort of create what Stacy Peralta created with our team..." (Tony Hawk, 26:38)

• Hardcore commitment of real skaters vs. casual fad-followers; street skating’s gritty rise with hip hop:

  "But there's very little support for that... If you wanted to be a skater in those days, you had to endure cops, ridicule, kind." (Tony Hawk, 27:47)

• Enduring creative drive during vert’s least popular years:

  "There are hardly any ramps in those years; were my most creative years in terms of learning tricks. I had no audience for it..." (Tony Hawk, 30:58)

Safety, Injuries, and Learning to Fall

[33:20–36:07]

• Protective gear was originally mandatory in parks, later abandoned in street skating:

  "In my day, [all the gear] was mandatory. You couldn't go to a park without having all the gear." (Tony Hawk, 33:25)

• The crucial skill of learning to fall, especially with big ramps:

  "One Thing you learn by default and almost involuntarily through skating is how to fall." (Tony Hawk, 36:00) "The technique to a knee slide is as you're falling, you take one very quick step... and then you go straight to your knee..." (Tony Hawk, 36:19)

The Joy and Persistence of Skating

[38:05–43:54]

• Tony’s injury stories, return to skating, and what makes the sport continually rewarding—especially sharing it with family:

  "I'm not moving the needle on getting gnarly, but it's so fun. And also, the idea that skateboarding has come this far, it's accessible to everyone." (Tony Hawk, 40:01)

• Reflecting on how the culture has opened up:

  "If you go to a skate park right now, almost anywhere, you'll see people of all ages, all genders, all races, all backgrounds... they’re all encouraging each other." (Tony Hawk, 41:05)

• Explaining evolution of gear: wider, concaved boards for functionality.

Competitions and Style vs. Technicality

[44:00–47:16]

• Early skate contests were about style, risk, and “coolness” (Christian Hosoi, etc.), not just technicality:

  "It was supposed to be about your style, your airtime, trick selection. And when it came down to it, in our day, it was just kind of like who's the coolest?" (Tony Hawk, 44:44) "To combat that, I had to come up with the craziest trick wise because they hated my style... I was the nerdy kid that was just trying to maneuver my board and looked awkward doing it." (Tony Hawk, 45:52)

Shyness, Mentors, and Sponsorship

[49:51–51:54]

• Tony on being quiet and misunderstood as arrogant; Stacy Peralta pushes him to connect:

  "When I started skating good, that was my voice... people thought I was arrogant because I wasn't talking... I'm just, just shy, doing all this crazy tricks." (Tony Hawk, 50:03) "Stacy Peralta said, look... they're staring at you like, go talk to them. Like, I'm not even comfortable in my own skin. How am I going to talk to these guys?" (Tony Hawk, 50:35)

• The economics of pro skating:

  "You are officially a pro skateboarder if you have a skateboard with your name on it. But the irony is that that's not going to be what makes you money. It's if you have a shoe deal, energy drink deal, car sponsorship, or your competition earnings." (Tony Hawk, 51:45)

Skate Shops and Counterculture

[52:03–53:32]

• The skate shop as the cultural hub:

  "That was the hub. I mean, that was where you would go to find your crew, to talk shop, to watch videos." (Tony Hawk, 52:06)

• Crossover with X Games, BMX, and even inline skating in the 90s.

Video Game Revolution

[54:26–59:21]

• The unlikely, initially rejected idea of a skateboarding video game:

  "I remember one quote was, skateboarding is not even popular. Why would a skateboarding video game be popular? ...I think now that we're at a different stage of video game and home consoles, we could do something fun." (Tony Hawk, 54:30)

• Success of Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater and its cultural impact via soundtrack:

  "To me, that was the biggest success. Like, if it's good enough for skateboarders that they like what they're seeing." (Tony Hawk, 56:16) "People credit that for getting them into punk rock or ska or even hip hop... There are four cover bands that only play songs from our video game, one on different continents." (Tony Hawk, 59:21)

Trick Innovation and the 900

[63:39–72:19]

• The progression of spinning tricks: 540, 720, to 900, and beyond (1080 and 1260 by younger skaters)
• Tony’s legendary 900 and the process of unlocking it:

  "It took me 10 years to make a 900." (Tony Hawk, 63:43) "The key to it was at the 99x games during the best trick event... I started trying it... I had a super good spin, way more speed than I usually had. I fell forward again, but didn't get hurt. And there was something that happened there where it was like, you have to shift your body weight mid spin. That's the key." (Tony Hawk, 68:10) "It got easier to get to that stage of knowing I can do it... but it always took a lot. It was never first try." (Tony Hawk, 71:09)

The Next Generation and the Future

[64:25–75:17]

• Reflecting on kids doing three 900s in a row at age 10, and the role of seeing what’s possible:

  "That's how people got to do 1080s and 1260s—foam pits and bigger ramps." (Tony Hawk, 75:02) "Now a lot of the skaters now grew up playing those games. And they can do it." (Tony Hawk, 89:18)

Philanthropy: The Skatepark Project

[78:51–81:09]

• Tony’s Skatepark Project foundation brings public skate parks to underserved areas:

  "That's what it was. Like we were the nerds and the outcasts, like we were the misfits. And the skate park was our happy, our safe place." (Tony Hawk, 79:43) "To date, we've helped to fund over 900 parks... in all 50 states. But we have a partnership with Skateistan who provide skate parks and educational facilities in South Africa, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Jordan..." (Tony Hawk, 81:00)

Personal Growth and Identity

[81:28–83:44]

• Skateboarding as a source of confidence and identity:

  "It's given me a sense of confidence that I don't think I would have found anywhere else. And an identity. Everything that I do almost inherently is connected to skateboarding..." (Tony Hawk, 81:38) "It’s become so—it's an extension of my body now and it's something that I am very proud of." (Tony Hawk, 83:00)

The Drive to Learn, Progress, and Inspire

[84:09–87:29]

• Tony discusses chasing new tricks, the value of stubborn dedication, and the continued thrill of innovation:

  "Or even if it's something that has been done. But I've never done it. Like, that's exciting to me... that buzz when you land something that you've never done, that buzz, like, that's the dragon." (Tony Hawk, 86:51)

• Witnessing new generations/technology push the limits; tricks once thought impossible now routine.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On punk and skateboarding’s kinship:

  "There's a do it yourself aspect, but there's also just this outcast element... that mindset is very much aligned. Skateboarding and punk rock." (Tony Hawk, 06:19)

• On dedication:

  “It was just repetition, perseverance, and a stubbornness, really... I'm just stubborn." (Tony Hawk, 07:39)

• On injury and risk:

  “I didn't want to get hurt, but I wasn't afraid to get hurt. And that's that can go a long way with what we do.” (Tony Hawk, 08:05)

• On innovative inspiration:

  "The day after the competition is when we were released and able to try new stuff. And that's what we cherish the most." (Tony Hawk, 10:27)

• On the importance of skate shops:

  "That was the hub. I mean, that was where you would go to find your crew, to talk shop, to watch videos." (Tony Hawk, 52:06)

• On the 900:

  “It took me 10 years to make a 900.” (Tony Hawk, 63:43) "When I started skating, no one did 5 forties... 900 was impossible. Until it wasn't." (Tony Hawk, 65:01)

• On giving back:

  “…my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas… we've helped to fund over 900 parks… in all 50 states.” (Tony Hawk, 78:54, 81:00)

• On skateboarding’s transformative role:

  "It's given me a sense of confidence that I don't think I would have found anywhere else. And an identity." (Tony Hawk, 81:38)

• On the perpetual joy of learning:

  “That buzz when you land something that you've never done, that buzz, like, that's the dragon.” (Tony Hawk, 86:58)

• On cultural impact:

  “There are four cover bands that only play songs from our video game, one on different continents.” (Tony Hawk, 59:21)

Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early skatepark experiences & punk rock intersection: 00:25–06:05
• Innovation and Rodney Mullen: 09:47–11:38
• Touring, business ups and downs: 20:20–30:41
• Protective gear, learning to fall: 33:20–36:41
• First competition, style vs. technicality: 44:00–47:16
• Shyness, mentorship, sponsorships: 49:51–51:54
• Video games revolution: 54:26–59:21
• The journey to the 900: 63:39–72:19
• Philanthropy and skatepark advocacy: 78:51–81:09
• Reflection on skateboarding as identity: 81:28–83:44

Conclusion

In this episode, Tony Hawk reveals the heart, guts, and soul behind skateboarding—from the rough-and-tumble early days through pop culture stardom and his own resilience in the face of aging and adversity. His reflections on dedication, risk, innovation, and giving back deliver a spirited portrait of what it means not just to ride, but to live skateboarding—a culture, a movement, and a lifelong passion.

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