Tony Hawk

Summary

Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

Guest: Tony Hawk
Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging and illuminating conversation, legendary skateboarder Tony Hawk joins Rick Rubin for a deep dive into the world of skateboarding—its subcultures, history, equipment, and enduring spirit. The two discuss Tony’s formative experiences in the skate scene, technical and cultural evolution of the sport, his journey through boom and bust periods, the impact of music and counterculture, and the process of invention and perseverance that has driven skateboarding to the global phenomenon it is today.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Early Influences and the Roots of Skateboarding

[00:25–03:51]

• Tony’s early exposure to skateboarding via his older brother, a surfer:

  "I didn't take to surfing... I wasn't that confident in the water with big waves. Once we found skateboarding together, I really enjoyed it, but it was really intimidating." (Tony Hawk, 00:25)

• Skate parks as new, magical spaces:

  "I was like, I want to live here. I want to be in this world. And I got hooked." (Tony Hawk, 01:15)

• The punk rock influence and danger, the attraction to an unstructured, non-coached environment.

The Evolution of Skate Parks & Equipment

[01:36–17:34]

• The fleeting nature of early skate parks, insurance/liability issues, and their revival:

  "I didn't realize I was at the tail end of it because to me, it seemed like, oh, there are skate parks everywhere... But both my parents are working, so it was hard to get there as much as I wanted to go." (Tony Hawk, 01:40)

• Tony recounts seeing the Circle Jerks play in a skate park—illustrating punk’s integration:

  "All of a sudden, they all gathered in this one bowl... That is the cover of Circle Jerks Group Sex. And then the Circle Jerks started playing... I'm 10." (Tony Hawk, 05:56)

• A DIY, outcast mentality connects punk and skate culture:

  "There's a do it yourself aspect, but there's also just this outcast element of, like, we don't fit in, we don't belong, but we're gonna do what we want anyway... And that attitude, that mindset is very much aligned." (Tony Hawk, 06:19)

• Technological progress in equipment—urethane wheels, board/truck innovations.

Dedication, Innovation, and Practice

[06:56–13:36]

• Tony discusses overcoming bullying and his perceived lack of natural athleticism:

  "I was bullied endlessly in the skate world, but I was possessed... It was just repetition, perseverance, and a stubbornness, really." (Tony Hawk, 07:06)

• The 10,000 hours principle and embracing injury:

  "It was the 10,000 hours... I didn't want to get hurt, but I wasn't afraid to get hurt." (Tony Hawk, 08:03)

• Cross-pollination between skaters (Tony and Rodney Mullen), and the iterative nature of trick innovation:

  "The thing we identify within each other is this obsession with having to learn new stuff... The day after competition is when we were released and able to try new stuff." (Tony Hawk, 09:54)

The Changing Landscape of Skateboarding

[14:03–26:29]

• Skateboarding’s ups and downs, skate park closures, and transitions to backyard ramps and touring demos:

  "Skate parks, again, couldn't afford the insurance. They started closing. Skating was still considered a fad in a way. So it was like, all right, this cycle's over. And then skating went underground for the most part." (Tony Hawk, 25:11)

• The chaotic, youth-driven punk rock energy of early tours:

  "It was very lawless... It was very much like, I always think of, like, Beastie Boys or like punk rock show... except for be at the demo at this time. That was our rules." (Tony Hawk, 21:14)

Business, Culture, and Skateboarding’s Rebirth

[26:30–38:03]

• Founding Birdhouse, struggles with early 90s industry collapse:

  "I had a child on the way and two mortgages, and I was like, the whole bottom just dropped out. What's happening?... hoping that I could sort of create what Stacy Peralta created with our team..." (Tony Hawk, 26:38)

• Hardcore commitment of real skaters vs. casual fad-followers; street skating’s gritty rise with hip hop:

  "But there's very little support for that... If you wanted to be a skater in those days, you had to endure cops, ridicule, kind." (Tony Hawk, 27:47)

• Enduring creative drive during vert’s least popular years:

  "There are hardly any ramps in those years; were my most creative years in terms of learning tricks. I had no audience for it..." (Tony Hawk, 30:58)

Safety, Injuries, and Learning to Fall

[33:20–36:07]

• Protective gear was originally mandatory in parks, later abandoned in street skating:

  "In my day, [all the gear] was mandatory. You couldn't go to a park without having all the gear." (Tony Hawk, 33:25)

• The crucial skill of learning to fall, especially with big ramps:

  "One Thing you learn by default and almost involuntarily through skating is how to fall." (Tony Hawk, 36:00) "The technique to a knee slide is as you're falling, you take one very quick step... and then you go straight to your knee..." (Tony Hawk, 36:19)

The Joy and Persistence of Skating

[38:05–43:54]

• Tony’s injury stories, return to skating, and what makes the sport continually rewarding—especially sharing it with family:

  "I'm not moving the needle on getting gnarly, but it's so fun. And also, the idea that skateboarding has come this far, it's accessible to everyone." (Tony Hawk, 40:01)

• Reflecting on how the culture has opened up:

  "If you go to a skate park right now, almost anywhere, you'll see people of all ages, all genders, all races, all backgrounds... they’re all encouraging each other." (Tony Hawk, 41:05)

• Explaining evolution of gear: wider, concaved boards for functionality.

Competitions and Style vs. Technicality

[44:00–47:16]

• Early skate contests were about style, risk, and “coolness” (Christian Hosoi, etc.), not just technicality:

  "It was supposed to be about your style, your airtime, trick selection. And when it came down to it, in our day, it was just kind of like who's the coolest?" (Tony Hawk, 44:44) "To combat that, I had to come up with the craziest trick wise because they hated my style... I was the nerdy kid that was just trying to maneuver my board and looked awkward doing it." (Tony Hawk, 45:52)

Shyness, Mentors, and Sponsorship

[49:51–51:54]

• Tony on being quiet and misunderstood as arrogant; Stacy Peralta pushes him to connect:

  "When I started skating good, that was my voice... people thought I was arrogant because I wasn't talking... I'm just, just shy, doing all this crazy tricks." (Tony Hawk, 50:03) "Stacy Peralta said, look... they're staring at you like, go talk to them. Like, I'm not even comfortable in my own skin. How am I going to talk to these guys?" (Tony Hawk, 50:35)

• The economics of pro skating:

  "You are officially a pro skateboarder if you have a skateboard with your name on it. But the irony is that that's not going to be what makes you money. It's if you have a shoe deal, energy drink deal, car sponsorship, or your competition earnings." (Tony Hawk, 51:45)

Skate Shops and Counterculture

[52:03–53:32]

• The skate shop as the cultural hub:

  "That was the hub. I mean, that was where you would go to find your crew, to talk shop, to watch videos." (Tony Hawk, 52:06)

• Crossover with X Games, BMX, and even inline skating in the 90s.

Video Game Revolution

[54:26–59:21]

• The unlikely, initially rejected idea of a skateboarding video game:

  "I remember one quote was, skateboarding is not even popular. Why would a skateboarding video game be popular? ...I think now that we're at a different stage of video game and home consoles, we could do something fun." (Tony Hawk, 54:30)

• Success of Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater and its cultural impact via soundtrack:

  "To me, that was the biggest success. Like, if it's good enough for skateboarders that they like what they're seeing." (Tony Hawk, 56:16) "People credit that for getting them into punk rock or ska or even hip hop... There are four cover bands that only play songs from our video game, one on different continents." (Tony Hawk, 59:21)

Trick Innovation and the 900

[63:39–72:19]

• The progression of spinning tricks: 540, 720, to 900, and beyond (1080 and 1260 by younger skaters)
• Tony’s legendary 900 and the process of unlocking it:

  "It took me 10 years to make a 900." (Tony Hawk, 63:43) "The key to it was at the 99x games during the best trick event... I started trying it... I had a super good spin, way more speed than I usually had. I fell forward again, but didn't get hurt. And there was something that happened there where it was like, you have to shift your body weight mid spin. That's the key." (Tony Hawk, 68:10) "It got easier to get to that stage of knowing I can do it... but it always took a lot. It was never first try." (Tony Hawk, 71:09)

The Next Generation and the Future

[64:25–75:17]

• Reflecting on kids doing three 900s in a row at age 10, and the role of seeing what’s possible:

  "That's how people got to do 1080s and 1260s—foam pits and bigger ramps." (Tony Hawk, 75:02) "Now a lot of the skaters now grew up playing those games. And they can do it." (Tony Hawk, 89:18)

Philanthropy: The Skatepark Project

[78:51–81:09]

• Tony’s Skatepark Project foundation brings public skate parks to underserved areas:

  "That's what it was. Like we were the nerds and the outcasts, like we were the misfits. And the skate park was our happy, our safe place." (Tony Hawk, 79:43) "To date, we've helped to fund over 900 parks... in all 50 states. But we have a partnership with Skateistan who provide skate parks and educational facilities in South Africa, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Jordan..." (Tony Hawk, 81:00)

Personal Growth and Identity

[81:28–83:44]

• Skateboarding as a source of confidence and identity:

  "It's given me a sense of confidence that I don't think I would have found anywhere else. And an identity. Everything that I do almost inherently is connected to skateboarding..." (Tony Hawk, 81:38) "It’s become so—it's an extension of my body now and it's something that I am very proud of." (Tony Hawk, 83:00)

The Drive to Learn, Progress, and Inspire

[84:09–87:29]

• Tony discusses chasing new tricks, the value of stubborn dedication, and the continued thrill of innovation:

  "Or even if it's something that has been done. But I've never done it. Like, that's exciting to me... that buzz when you land something that you've never done, that buzz, like, that's the dragon." (Tony Hawk, 86:51)

• Witnessing new generations/technology push the limits; tricks once thought impossible now routine.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On punk and skateboarding’s kinship:

  "There's a do it yourself aspect, but there's also just this outcast element... that mindset is very much aligned. Skateboarding and punk rock." (Tony Hawk, 06:19)

• On dedication:

  “It was just repetition, perseverance, and a stubbornness, really... I'm just stubborn." (Tony Hawk, 07:39)

• On injury and risk:

  “I didn't want to get hurt, but I wasn't afraid to get hurt. And that's that can go a long way with what we do.” (Tony Hawk, 08:05)

• On innovative inspiration:

  "The day after the competition is when we were released and able to try new stuff. And that's what we cherish the most." (Tony Hawk, 10:27)

• On the importance of skate shops:

  "That was the hub. I mean, that was where you would go to find your crew, to talk shop, to watch videos." (Tony Hawk, 52:06)

• On the 900:

  “It took me 10 years to make a 900.” (Tony Hawk, 63:43) "When I started skating, no one did 5 forties... 900 was impossible. Until it wasn't." (Tony Hawk, 65:01)

• On giving back:

  “…my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas… we've helped to fund over 900 parks… in all 50 states.” (Tony Hawk, 78:54, 81:00)

• On skateboarding’s transformative role:

  "It's given me a sense of confidence that I don't think I would have found anywhere else. And an identity." (Tony Hawk, 81:38)

• On the perpetual joy of learning:

  “That buzz when you land something that you've never done, that buzz, like, that's the dragon.” (Tony Hawk, 86:58)

• On cultural impact:

  “There are four cover bands that only play songs from our video game, one on different continents.” (Tony Hawk, 59:21)

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Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early skatepark experiences & punk rock intersection: 00:25–06:05
• Innovation and Rodney Mullen: 09:47–11:38
• Touring, business ups and downs: 20:20–30:41
• Protective gear, learning to fall: 33:20–36:41
• First competition, style vs. technicality: 44:00–47:16
• Shyness, mentorship, sponsorships: 49:51–51:54
• Video games revolution: 54:26–59:21
• The journey to the 900: 63:39–72:19
• Philanthropy and skatepark advocacy: 78:51–81:09
• Reflection on skateboarding as identity: 81:28–83:44

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Conclusion

In this episode, Tony Hawk reveals the heart, guts, and soul behind skateboarding—from the rough-and-tumble early days through pop culture stardom and his own resilience in the face of aging and adversity. His reflections on dedication, risk, innovation, and giving back deliver a spirited portrait of what it means not just to ride, but to live skateboarding—a culture, a movement, and a lifelong passion.

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[End of Content Summary]

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Tetragrammaton.

[Tony Hawk]

My older brother was a surfer. He's 13 years older than me. And then skating was an extension of surfing in the 70s, so he started doing it, and he's my older brother. So I was like, oh, that's cool. And for whatever reason, I didn't take to surfing the way he did. I liked it, but I wasn't that confident in the water with big waves. Once we found skateboarding together, I really enjoyed it, but it was really intimidating. It was like all the kids. Most of the kids were older. There was a skate park in San Diego. The Bulls seemed like they were gigantic, you know, and it was constant danger. But there was something about it. When I first went to the skate park on my own and felt the energy in that space where it was like. It wasn't organized. It wasn't a coach telling us what to do. No one's relying on the rest of the team for their success. People were flying. The music, it was like a punk rock soundtrack. It was all new. And it was just. I was like, I want to live here. I want to be in this world. And I got hooked.

[Interviewer]

Skate parks must have been a really new phenomenon at that time.

[Tony Hawk]

They were. I didn't realize I was at the tail end of it because to me, it seemed like, oh, there are skate parks everywhere. There were actually two in San Diego, near us, Spring Valley, Oasis. I was not old enough to get a membership at Spring Valley. You had to be 10, I think I was nine. And my dad wouldn't lie. And then I went to Oasis and spent as much as I could get rides there. Both my parents are working, so it was hard to get there as much as I wanted to go.

[Interviewer]

How far was it from where you lived?

[Tony Hawk]

Like, 20 minutes. But it was just more like. My mom worked at a community college. She was usually there till late at night. My dad was kind of a traveling salesman of musical instruments. He was retired from the Navy.

[Interviewer]

What kind of instruments?

[Tony Hawk]

Everything. Guitars, violins. I mean, drums. My sister. My older sister was in a band, so he was their roadie for the most part. And then he found a way to source instruments and just started selling them to music shops.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Cool.

[Tony Hawk]

All around Southern California and Arizona. So he was usually off doing that. And then I could rely on my brother at least once a week and my mom a couple times a week to get to the park. So I was there until they closed. And I remember just. I was obsessed. Like, I had to. I had to be there. And first time I got hurt, I got knocked on my front teeth because a concussion and I didn't care, you know.

[Interviewer]

Like I remember how old were you when that happened?

[Tony Hawk]

Maybe 10 or 11.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I remember being in the ambulance. I remember like I remember waking up and I was not where I got hurt.

[Interviewer]

So you got knocked out?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh yeah, yeah. And then I, I woke up and I was in the pro shop of the skate park and they put me in ambulance cuz my parents weren't there yet. And then I remember sort of this epiphany in the ambulance that was like, oh man, I gotta learn how to do rock and rolls better.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Cause that's what took me out.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

That was a pretty pivotal moment in my life. Cause it was like.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. In those days, how many hours would you be at skate park?

[Tony Hawk]

Typically my parents moved around a couple times, San Diego and ended up in North County. And it was just pure coincidence that the last skate park almost in the US was right there, Del Mar Skate Ranch. All of the other ones closed during.

[Interviewer]

Like the Dogtown days. There were not yet skate parks.

[Tony Hawk]

They were starting to crop. I was like, like the Dogtown Z boys were the ones I was reading about in the magazines when I first started.

[Interviewer]

But they learned to do what eventually.

[Tony Hawk]

You did in Escape in backyard pools.

[Interviewer]

In backyard pools, yeah. But then the idea was well, why don't we build something instead of using a pool? But it felt like that came after.

[Tony Hawk]

Then it did for sure.

[Interviewer]

How long was the window between them and you?

[Tony Hawk]

Maybe three years.

[Interviewer]

Not so long.

[Tony Hawk]

Not so long? No, two or three years. I mean I, I, I went to Marina Del Rey when I was actually, I went to Marina Del Rey. Yeah, you'll like this story. And because they had these. You were on a skate park team. So I was Team Del Mar Skate Ranch originally Oasis, then Del Mar Skate Ranch. So then we would go to these.

[Interviewer]

Every park would have a team.

[Tony Hawk]

They would have a team. I mean that was short lived. It was like, like one season or two seasons of that. But we would have to go practice at these other parks. And so I got my brother to drive me to Marina Del Rey, which is, you know, San Diego to la. And I'm trying to skate this bowl, this pool's so it's the dog bowl. It's literally where, where those guys skate Jam. Stacy Peralta, you know, Tony Alva. And I'm this little kid with this giant board and I'm just trying to like reach the top and I, and I, they had a shallow end so I could do these little tricks in the shallow end. And then all of a sudden, this influx of punk rockers started coming into the park. Not skating, just taking over the space. Like, what is going on? And my brother, we're not from la, so we're just kind of like, this is kind of intimidating. This is weird. And then all of a sudden, they all gathered in this one bowl right by where I was skating, but started spilling into the skate area. And I was like, I guess we're done for today. And this guy got up on a ladder and taking photos of it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

And.

[Tony Hawk]

And that is the COVID of Circle Jerks Group sex.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Wow.

[Tony Hawk]

And then the Circle Jerks started playing.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I'm 10.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You know, like, I had no idea that I'm witnessing this revolution at all. I'm just more like, why can't we skate anymore?

[Interviewer]

So cool.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think that connection between punk and skateboarding exists?

[Tony Hawk]

I think it just. There's a do it yourself aspect, but there's also just this outcast element of, like, we don't fit in, we don't belong, but we're gonna do what we want anyway. We're gonna make our own scene. And that attitude, that mindset is very much aligned. Skateboarding and punk rock and, you know, plenty of. I mean, if you look back, like, Henry Rollins skated, EMK skated. Like, all these guys were deeply connected to skateboarding. And then that became sort of the soundtrack to it.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that you're an unusually gifted athlete? Are you a diligent workaholic?

[Tony Hawk]

I wouldn't say unusually gifted athlete. I was okay at sports. Baseball and basketball. Like, I was average player, you know, wasn't making the All Star team, but I wasn't the last picked.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

When I started skating, I was heavily ridiculed for my style, for my lack of strength, for my size, for my look. I mean, it was. I was bullied endlessly in the skate world, but I was possessed, so.

[Interviewer]

So would you say it was your.

[Tony Hawk]

Dedication, it was hard work? Yeah, I mean, it was. It was. It was just repetition, perseverance, and a stubbornness, really. Like, you know, people say, like, oh, man, like, you're so determined. I'm like, I'm just stubborn.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Would you say there were other skaters for whom it was easier not saying they got better than you?

[Tony Hawk]

Yes, absolutely.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it was the work. You were diligent.

[Tony Hawk]

It was the 10,000 hours.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And not. I didn't want to get hurt, but I wasn't afraid to get hurt. And that's that can go a long way with what we do.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely, yeah. Because fear is probably the thing that would slow down all the progress.

[Tony Hawk]

Sure, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever get into surfing?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And tell me about the relationship between surfing and skating. Similarities, differences.

[Tony Hawk]

I would say the. The. The link, the evolutionary link from surfing to skating is the Dogtown Z Boys, because they were trying to emulate surfing by riding swimming pool walls. And then when I got into skateboarding, you either skated pools or you skated freestyle. Freestyle was flat land. The kickflips were not invented yet. Right. So basically, are you cool or are you a nerd? Right. Cause the freestylers, they're not putting much risk out there. I mean, that was the attitude. They're doing pirouettes, they're dancing to routines. And I wanted to be cool. Like, I wanted to fly, I wanted to grind. That's what the pool skating was about. So that's why I chose the type of skating that I did. But when you look at nowadays, most of these tricks that you see people wanting to learn, perform, they're freestyle moves. Kick flips, 360 flips, like that was all invented by Rodney Mullen, who was the best freestyler. But there was something special about him that we recognize. And even the most ardent naysayers of freestyler were like, rodney is magical. He can do stuff that we don't even understand.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever talk to him about it?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And for him, was it just a natural thing?

[Tony Hawk]

He was like me. He just couldn't stop.

[Interviewer]

Dedication.

[Tony Hawk]

Dedication, yeah. And I mean, the thing that we identify with, I'd say, to identify within each other is this obsession with having to learn new stuff. And even he and I, we had probably the most successful competition rankings in skateboarding history. He won every single freestyle event except one in his career. I won most of the vert events that I entered, but the day after the competition is when we were released and able to try new stuff.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And that's what we cherish the most.

[Interviewer]

Would every new move ultimately be an iteration of an old move?

[Tony Hawk]

Sometimes. Nowadays, yes, without question. Sometimes it was just like, what the hell? I mean, like Rodney the ollie. Impossible. You know, it's. It's where your board actually wraps all the way over your foot. Doesn't make any sense. That doesn't. You can't relate it to anything else. To us, it seems impossible. Right. But once he figured it out, people started doing it.

[Interviewer]

And was it something he figured out or fell into or did?

[Tony Hawk]

He would just kind of tinker around with his board. I mean, he grew up near Clearwater, Florida, on a farm, and he had a slab of cement that he would skate by himself. That was his M.O. and then he would just kind of tinker around. And even, like, he invented the kickflip. He just said he. He did an ollie, kicked it away, and the board flipped. And he goes, it's mocking me if I just go stand above it when I do that. And a half hour later, he created the kickflip. So it's just kind of like that. So I took a lot of inspiration from him because, like, I learned how to flip my board in the air above a pool because I watched him.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The iteration was he was doing it on the ground, you were doing it in the air. Yeah, but if you didn't see it on the ground, you couldn't do it in the air.

[Tony Hawk]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

You needed to know it was possible.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the same goes for.

[Interviewer]

But the same for him. He probably didn't think it would be possible to do it in the air.

[Tony Hawk]

Right. But then I would do tricks in the air, and he figured out how to do. How to ollie off the ground, where no one really had learned it the way that he could. And so he started learning some of my tricks. Like an airwalk. Right. I created an airwalk where I take both feet off my board, I kick each opposite directions. And he was like, oh, I can ollie off the ground, Grab my board, and kick it quickly. And then he did it right there.

[Interviewer]

Like, you know, without all of the momentum that you had.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's really interesting.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. And then a lot of the early tricks were taken from surfing, laybacks, Bertlman carving, you know, all the stuff. But then at some point, skateboarding became its own thing in terms of, oh, we're doing stuff in the air, we're flipping the board, we're spinning five 40s. And then power balance shifted where it was like surfers were trying to. Were trying to emulate skateboarding after that.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

Which is what happens now. I mean, when you look at surfing, it's big airs. 540s stalefish varials. Kick flips like that all came from skateboarding.

[Interviewer]

How is the difference between being on wheels versus being on a board on water?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh, it's way different. I mean, just the way that you maneuver the board, the way you generate speed, it's. You know, some people can cross over pretty well. I'm not one of them.

[Interviewer]

Would you say wheels give you more control?

[Tony Hawk]

Sure. Because you also, you could take your foot and push for momentum.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

On a wave you have to rely on. Where is the. The speed pocket of the way?

[Interviewer]

Every wave is different.

[Tony Hawk]

Every wave is different.

[Interviewer]

Once you're riding a pool or in a park, it's the same every time.

[Tony Hawk]

It is, yeah.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How different is it going from park to park?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh, way different. It shifted a little bit with the Olympics because they had to, parks had to have. It's nuanced, but kind of an overall vibe and different types of obstacles if they're going to be considered for an Olympic qualifier. That's my best experience.

[Interviewer]

How many years has skateboarding been in the Olympics?

[Tony Hawk]

First one was Tokyo, So that was 2020. One should have been 2020.

[Interviewer]

And then recently.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. And then Paris this last time.

[Interviewer]

So two times.

[Tony Hawk]

Two times, yeah.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

Did you watch?

[Tony Hawk]

I watched, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And what were your thoughts?

[Tony Hawk]

It's amazing. It's crazy. I think that half life should be disciplined, but that's a whole other conversation.

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[Tony Hawk]

Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about the skateboarding world that you entered. At the time, it was the end of the skate parks.

[Tony Hawk]

Kind of end of the.

[Interviewer]

The first era of skate parks. Yeah, because they came back.

[Tony Hawk]

They did. I don't know if you want to say first or second, but it was sort of the end of the second boom of skateboarding.

[Interviewer]

Tell me each one, tell me the history.

[Tony Hawk]

So the first one was sort of late 60s, early 70s, and they were toys. They had clay or steel wheels and people were just using them to go down the hills and transportation. Then that sort of fad went away. I mean, it was almost like the Frisbee of the day. And then in the 70s, it sort of came back, especially with the Dogtown Z Boys.

[Interviewer]

Urethane Wheels.

[Tony Hawk]

Urethane Wheels changed the game for sure. I think it was like 74, 75 maybe. I may not have that. Right. It was before my time.

[Interviewer]

And trucks.

[Tony Hawk]

The trucks were originally roller skate trucks.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And then they. They started to make them specifically for skateboarding. And then the board started getting wider. But I would say through the 70s, that was the revolution of equipment. And then the Dogtown Z Boys era, people started realizing you could do a lot more than just go down a hill. And then skateparks started cropping up. So that was sort of the second boom, probably bigger than the first one.

[Interviewer]

And was the goal of the skate park originally to get the feeling of riding in a swimming pool?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I mean, I think. Well, the goal ultimately was profit. Skateparks saw, you know, people will pay to be here all day or for an hour or whatever. I mean, they would actually sell one hour sessions.

[Interviewer]

But it was different than skateboarding down the street.

[Tony Hawk]

Absolutely. Yeah. And. But it would. It had. It had a little bit of everything. Usually skate parks had a little bit everything. So it had sort of reservoir, we call it like a bank slalom. That was just sort of a downhill bank that looked like a ditch. They had small pools, they had bigger pools. They had square pools, they had capsules shaped pools.

[Interviewer]

What were you doing? A square pool?

[Tony Hawk]

Well, the square. You can actually, the corners are rounded just enough so you can kind of.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

Whip through the corner. They had full pipes, you know, just. They were just like ones they would find out in sewage lines, stuff like that. But big ones. Yeah, I mean, back then when I was on park team, we used to. They used to have a. What they called a pipe pasting event. And so you would put. You'd put a piece of tape around your fingers and then you'd skate the full pipe and get as high as you can and then get your hand up and then put the sticker up if you made it. They would run a line across to see how far over avert you got, and then that was the winner.

[Interviewer]

Was it getting more popular when they went away or it got less popular?

[Tony Hawk]

It was starting to get less popular. But liability insurance became impossible.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

And I think that was the perfect story.

[Interviewer]

And was there a case or something that happened? Someone got hurt somewhere and that changed it?

[Tony Hawk]

I think there was enough. No, I think it was just more That I can't say there was a particular case, but I think it was just more that insurance companies just kept gouging skate parks until the point where they couldn't.

[Interviewer]

Couldn't survive.

[Tony Hawk]

They didn't have the. The clientele that. To justify it. Yeah, I got lucky because the park I told you about, Del Mar Skate Ranch, it was part of an entertainment center, so it was like mini golf, a driving range. They even had, like, RC slot cars.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Cool.

[Tony Hawk]

And all of that helped to keep the place open, Even though the skate park was a big part of that and it wasn't doing as much business. They didn't really care because the rest of it was working. And then they lost their insurance, and that was it.

[Interviewer]

So then what did you do when that happened?

[Tony Hawk]

That was kind of around the time that people started building backyard ramps.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

So I had a couple of places to skate by then.

[Interviewer]

How old were you before you had your own ramp?

[Tony Hawk]

When I first got my ramp, I was 19.

[Interviewer]

And were you already professional at that time?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the other thing. All of a sudden we were kind of, you know, skating came back around in the mid to late 80s, and all of a sudden, I'm on the Bones Brigade. The Bones Brigade is just on tour. So we were on tour endlessly.

[Interviewer]

Globally. Globally?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Europe, Australia, Japan.

[Interviewer]

And would it always be for competition, or would it also be for demonstration?

[Tony Hawk]

Mostly demonstrations.

[Interviewer]

It'd be like a show.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, but I mean, you know, in the sense that we go to a parking lot of a skate shop and they just put a bunch of junky ramps out, and it's like, go skate this. Or skate parks. Because there were. By then, there were wooden skate parks, indoor indoor skate parks. And they were. They were busy enough to justify getting insurance. So that was. That was cool because we got to skate all kinds of different terrain. We didn't have that many options at home anyway.

[Interviewer]

And how many people would be on the tour?

[Tony Hawk]

Usually they would send out four to five skaters in a van and with sort of a. A supervisor, but the supervisor was also a pro skater. And usually they were. They were just along for the party anyway. So, you know, it was very lawless. Yeah, I mean, it was. It was very much like, I always think of, like, Beastie Boys or like punk rock show. Punk. Yeah, but. But you know, a bunch of kids traveling, like, no one's setting guidelines or rules.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Except for be at the demo at this time. That was our rules.

[Interviewer]

The people in the shop also were probably kids.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, it was the Whole thing, it was just chaos.

[Interviewer]

A youth movement.

[Tony Hawk]

Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Counterculture movement.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But I was always at least reliable. I never partied so hard that it affected my skating because that. That was always paramount to everything else that was my priority. I had to skate good. I had to prove myself at every turn. And anything else was a distraction from.

[Interviewer]

That will be the places that you'd stay when you'd go on tour.

[Tony Hawk]

Hauden, Ramada, definitely sharing rooms, but we didn't care. I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was fun. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And the word would get out just through the skateboard stores. Just through the shops.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Well, I mean, Pal Peralta, who was the company behind Bones Brigade, their tour plans were pretty elaborate.

[Interviewer]

How many years had they been doing tours before you?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh, we were one of the first.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I think they did a few one offs, but, like, I think the first tour I went on, we actually had a van, you know, like a van that you would travel with a band in. And then we put ramps in the back of the van.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And then we show up to a skate shop, and then we just pull all the ramps out and put it in the parking lot. And it was sort of like our little LEGO set that we could put however we want. And then the crowds outgrew that scene very quickly. So then the next year, they bought a fully retractable mini ramp that lives on a trailer and hired, you know, seasoned drivers to be in charge of the ramp. So we would be in a van that's just the skaters show up and the ramp is already assembled and ready to go, and the crowd is there.

[Interviewer]

Same as a van. First time you go, the equipment's in the back. You set it up yourself, you put it away. And then maybe if things go good, the next time there's another van with the roadies that have the equipment, and then you're in the other car in the vehicle to travel.

[Tony Hawk]

And at that time, and then years after that, we thought that was as big as it's ever gonna get. Yeah, I mean, we were riding high like that.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of the.

[Interviewer]

Let's say in the initial crew were 4 or 5, how many of the 4 or 5 continued being the same 4 or 5 year after year?

[Tony Hawk]

I would say that lasted for at least five to six years.

[Interviewer]

And so you and the four or five other guys, that was.

[Tony Hawk]

So what they would do is they kind of had what I would say with their A listers.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Of. Of the Bones Brigade. And those were Steve Cavallaro, Mike McGill, Tommy Guerrero, Rodney Mullen, me, Lance Mountain. So usually they would put one or two of us in that crew, and then the rest were amateur skaters that were all excellent skaters.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And just not as known yet.

[Tony Hawk]

Just not as known. And so inevitably, you'd show up and it'd be like, where's Rodney? Where's Lance? It's like, they're not here, but we're here. And then those guys would tell me every time they show up, where's Tony?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

How many teams were there in the country?

[Tony Hawk]

There weren't many. I mean, it was really like. It was Pal, Peralta Vision, Santa Cruz. And those are like the big three.

[Interviewer]

What happened next?

[Tony Hawk]

As big as it was, skate parks again were closing, even though they weren't permanent structures. And usually they were in the more difficult parts of town for the real estate cost. But the skate parks, again, couldn't afford the insurance. They started closing. Skating was still considered a fad in a way. So it was like, all right, this cycle's over. And then skating went underground for the most part.

[Interviewer]

Did the tours stop or did you still continue?

[Tony Hawk]

Tours didn't stop, but they changed shape.

[Interviewer]

Did they shrink in audience or.

[Tony Hawk]

Not necessarily shrink in audience? Absolutely. Yeah. Because by 1992, I started my own company. I had left Powell because I saw the signs and I thought, I guess I'm 24. I guess my career is over because I'm old and I skate ramps.

[Interviewer]

What was the first peak that you experienced? And then what was the first bottom that you experienced after that peak?

[Tony Hawk]

I'd say the first peak I experienced was 88, 89.

[Interviewer]

And your age then?

[Tony Hawk]

20, 20, and then 92 is when all of a sudden everything was dropping. My income was shrinking by half every month. Because it was all royalty based.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You know, even like.

[Interviewer]

And royalties on skateboards.

[Tony Hawk]

T shirts, T shirts. But all the accessories, too. Trucks, shoes.

[Interviewer]

So the whole industry was shrinking.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. And I was feeling it. I had a child on the way and two mortgages, and I was like, the whole bottom just dropped out. What's happening? And so I started a company hoping that I could sort of create what Stacy Peralta created with our team was like, I'm going to find the talent, and if skateboarding comes back around, we're going to be on top of it. Yeah, that was the goal.

[Interviewer]

Out in the world of skateboarding at that time. Were the people who were interested still interested, or was the interest in all of it waning?

[Tony Hawk]

There were no more casual skaters that were in it for the hype of it that were in it because it was cool. Even though I never think of it as being cool. Because all those kids in the 80s when they were in high school, they were getting hassled if they were skating. Right. But they coveted it, they loved it. It was more like it's just not as accessible. And so the people who truly love it are going to keep doing it at all costs. But there's very little support for that.

[Interviewer]

So there was a hardcore contingent.

[Tony Hawk]

That hardcore contingent. Like, if you look back, especially if you look back in early 90s, mid-90s, that's the revolution of street skating. And that's when things were no longer, oh, this is Southern California vibe. This is surf culture. No, this is. We're in the streets. This is like New York City, you know, Wu Tang is the soundtrack. Philly, Texas. And it was all like, everyone had their little pockets of scenes, but it was all street skating and it was all mostly illegal. And so if you wanted to be a skater in those days, you had to endure cops, you know, ridicule, Kind.

[Interviewer]

Of like the graffiti. Like, it's not so different than that culture. And so many of the hip hop artists from the 90s were skateboarders.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Again, like a continuation of the punk rock side, Just the inner city version.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I mean, I remember what we thought was a big event in England, maybe like 93, 94ish and de la Soul played at the event.

[Interviewer]

So cool.

[Tony Hawk]

And I remember half the skaters were like, are these guys really here? Like, you know, because to us, they're a hugely popular hip hop band. We're still the dredge of the earth skaters here. Yeah, it was weird.

[Interviewer]

So you started your own company?

[Tony Hawk]

I started my company in 92, got a team together. And that's when I learned the hardships of being on the organizing end of doing tours. Yeah, because then it was like, all right, I gotta book all these places. I'm the one who has to collect the money and make sure that we have a place to stay, get food, gas. You know, we used. We. We had this old really beat up Toyota van that we use for deliveries for the skateboards for our company. So that became the tour van. Mostly I was driving. There were five of us. And we would go skate shop, skate shop. There were a few skate parks left, so we'd go there too. We'd show up, skate for like an hour, sign, autograph stuff for an hour. And then I would have to try to collect $300 from the shop. I would say I got it maybe half the time.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You know, and then.

[Interviewer]

And just not a nice position to be in, having to do that.

[Tony Hawk]

No.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you're a skateboarder.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, but I knew, you know, I, I signed up for it. I started the company. This is the new gig. And so depending on how much we got, that would dictate if we're going to get one room or two rooms.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Right.

[Tony Hawk]

You know, at Howard Johnson's usually. And then hopefully gas and then Taco Bell.

[Interviewer]

How long would tours go for?

[Tony Hawk]

Usually five to six weeks.

[Interviewer]

Even when there was less of an audience and less of a business model, were tricks continually evolving. So the art form was always moving forward regardless.

[Tony Hawk]

Regardless. Still to this day. And the sad irony in my case, I mean, not that I look back on in regret, but I was still skating ramps even though it was like this forgotten discipline. There are hardly any ramps in those years were my most creative years in terms of learning new tricks and stuff. I had no audience for it. Literally. If you put a half pipe section in a skate video back then, you know, we call half pipes vert. So people would say hit the vert button. That means fast forward.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

That's amazing. Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And to this day, like that's still a thing that there's. In fact there's, I think there's a podcast called the vert button.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing.

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[Interviewer]

When did gear to protect your knees and elbows start? Like I imagine right when you started that.

[Tony Hawk]

That was so. In my day that was mandatory. You couldn't go to a park without having all the gear.

[Interviewer]

I see and Helmets.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, but they rented it.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

They rented these shitty super thin plastic.

[Interviewer]

We call it, available because there was a time when no one even thought about it.

[Tony Hawk]

Right, Right. I mean, my first concussion, I was wearing a helmet. It was just shitty.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

It was a joke.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

In fact, the, the, the edge of the helmet sliced my eyebrow. So I had stitches too, like, you know what I mean? Just squished into my head. But I would say once the skate parks were closing, then all bets were off. Or for pads. I mean, that's, you know, to this day, when you, especially when you watch people skate, you probably hardly see anyone wearing pads. Right. Out in the wild on the handrails and stuff like that. Because once it wasn't mandatory. Who cares?

[Interviewer]

Have you ever street skated at all?

[Tony Hawk]

A little bit. But my style was very rooted in what we call transition skating, which is like riding radiuses. So I'm not ready for like any sort of rough terrain or abrupt things like that, you know, I did, I went as far as I could with my street career until on one of those tours, I ended up rolling one ankle in the worst way on a handrail. And then the very next day, we're still on tour. I'm still, you know, I still gotta skate. Whatever. The next day I, I went down a small set of stairs, like skating the other direction because my ankle was so fucked up. And then I wrecked my other ankle just as bad. And in that moment I was like, if I want to continue to skate and have fun, I can't do this stuff.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You know, I'm just not, I'm not built for it.

[Interviewer]

No, it's completely understood. Like, I think of the difference between skating and surfing. If you fall off the weight, there is the potential for drowning. That's a real thing. But you're landing in the water, which just seems like if you're going to be falling off of something, to land in the water is so much better than to land on concrete steps.

[Tony Hawk]

Yes, I agree. When people say, like, how can you ride these giant ramps, you know, like, and they give me shit. Like, and you won't go surf when it's a little heavy, I'm like, because when I fall, the ramp doesn't come attack me and hold me underwater and.

[Interviewer]

Try to drown you.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Like, I know where I stand with this ramp and I'm good. If I fall, I'm fine.

[Interviewer]

Know, it's really interesting, that difference, because it does seem like falling on something hard seems like the worst option.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I mean, one Thing you learn by default and almost involuntarily through skating is how to fall.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you learn that early on.

[Tony Hawk]

Way early on.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are there secrets or tricks you can explain?

[Tony Hawk]

Well, if you're skating big ramps.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

We do knee slides. That's how we get out of situations. The secret, like the technique to a knee slide is as you're falling, you take one very quick step with your lead foot, whatever that might be, or your dominant foot, and then you go straight to your knee. So you've kind of taken the impact with your one leg just enough that you can take the rest of the impact with your knee.

[Interviewer]

So you're not breaking the fall with your knees.

[Tony Hawk]

You're not breaking. If you do go straight to your knee.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You'll jar your back.

[Interviewer]

I see. And if you use the bent foot as like a run, one.

[Tony Hawk]

One quick step, drops the knee to.

[Interviewer]

Get to the knee. And I guess you get good at that.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you get good at spatial awareness, like a gymnast, where it's like you snap, you're like, something's wrong, I gotta bail out. Even though I can't see where I am, I just know this is not right.

[Interviewer]

How much of what you're doing is always intentional versus I'm surprised my feet decided to do that.

[Tony Hawk]

Well, in the context of trying to learn new tricks, I would say it's like in my experience, in my approach, it's like 2/3 intentional, 1 third happy accident. And when I say happy accident, it's like I screw up an attempt, but I see something else.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You get a glimpse of how it could work, but you wouldn't have known that had you not right or.

[Tony Hawk]

I have something in mind. I want to get this done. I want to check it off the list. It just doesn't work. And then I find this sort of side door approach to it almost by accident. It's like, why did I torture myself trying it this one way and not just go this way with it? But I was always happy to make those discoveries.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is skateboarding as fun for you now as it was when you were young?

[Tony Hawk]

It is, yeah. I broke my leg about three years ago skating. Skating, yeah. And doing a McTwist like some trick I took for granted that I've done thousands of times and just kind of didn't have the right amount of speed and was cavalier and around and found out, like, you know, just that it doesn't work the way it used to. I can't just recover. Got my leg Tangled and. And broke my femur. Like, I mean, as I was still sliding across the flat bottom, it felt like my leg had left my body. You know what I mean? Like, it was so obvious. Just like, okay, that is disconnected. I broke my leg for sure. And getting back from that, I had a false start. I got. I skated too soon. The bone never actually reconnected back to itself, so it was offset for the first eight months of my recovery. And I was always in pain. And at some point, I was like, this can't be right. I can't have this kind of limp and be struggling this much. And then they took us X ray and they said, yeah, you have what we call a non union fracture.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So the bone came back together, but in the wrong place.

[Tony Hawk]

It didn't even come back together. It never did. At some point, it was on top of each other. I skated too soon. I shifted it out of place, and then it was just hanging above the other one. Yeah, it sucked.

[Interviewer]

So then you had surgery eight months.

[Tony Hawk]

Later, I had it realigned with a very stern warning from the doctor that did it. It's like, you cannot get back out there. Don't get back out there the way you did.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Take it slow. In fact, I want you to be on crutches for the first two months, even though you won't need them.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And I'm only telling you this because now, having gotten through that, getting to a level of skating that I'm at now that is back to sort of a professional level, I don't take any of it for granted. And so it kind of makes it way more fun.

[Interviewer]

Understood.

[Tony Hawk]

I mean, I just skated with my kids two hours ago at Kapala Skate park, and just jumping over the hips there, like, that's a gift at my age. And then I get to do with my kids. You know, I'm not moving the needle on getting gnarly, but it's so fun. And also, the idea that skateboarding has come this far, it's accessible to everyone.

[Interviewer]

Is it more popular now than it's ever been?

[Tony Hawk]

That's hard to answer. I would say yes on an international scale, but also.

[Interviewer]

But now it's in the culture. It's not like a fad.

[Tony Hawk]

It's just something that people do. Like, yeah, you know, like, this dude showed up today. He was driving by. I saw a ski, and he's like, oh, man, I haven't skidded in a while. If I get my board, can I skate with you guys? Yeah, go for It. So we drove home, came back, and he was skating and it was just like, that's how it is now. Like, that guy skating is in his DNA, even though he doesn't even do it that much anymore. And I feel like this is something. People change.

[Interviewer]

Like riding a bike.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

They just.

[Interviewer]

We don't always ride a bike, but once you know how to ride a bike, it's in your arsenal.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Like going back to how available skateboarding is. I mean, if you go to a skate park right now, almost anywhere, you'll see people of all ages, all genders, all races, all backgrounds using the park and all skill levels, like from absolute beginners to actual pros that are competing internationally. And they're all enjoying the space the same and they're all encouraging each other. And I just don't. There's no other sport like that.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about the changes in equipment, what each of the changes allows. That wasn't possible before.

[Tony Hawk]

I think in the 80s, it just allowed more stability because the shapes got bigger.

[Interviewer]

Wider.

[Tony Hawk]

Wider. Yeah, wider and a little bit longer.

[Interviewer]

I remember there was a period at some point where they got really long.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, that's more longboard, like cruise boards. That's sort of a different approach. But that exists.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And at the time that they came out, it was new. We hadn't seen it.

[Tony Hawk]

It was new. Sure. And it's just less trick oriented.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So.

[Interviewer]

And then boards, I remember when I was a kid, they were hard and then there was a time when they got soft. They would flex in the middle.

[Tony Hawk]

Those boards like, those were more like the surf style boards in the 70s. Or slalom boards. Slalom boards were very springy.

[Interviewer]

And what's the benefit or negative?

[Tony Hawk]

Well, sl. The negative is that it's not rigid enough to be able to do tricks. Right. But the benefit is if it's. If it's kind of bouncing in the middle, is you can do slalom and do real fast turns back to that.

[Interviewer]

Would it be like shock absorber also? Sort of.

[Tony Hawk]

Not really. It's. No, because you wouldn't be on those types of boards. You would not be leaving the ground.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Okay.

[Tony Hawk]

I would say around.

[Interviewer]

And slalom is like. You see the videos of the guys going really fast, really fast, just back and forth.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Which I had to do as a part team member and I was terrible at it. And there's the, like video of me hitting all the cones. It was just not my thing. In the early 80s or sort of early 80s, mid, late mid-80s, 7 ply maple became the norm for construction for skateboards. And then it was just about, what is the concave and what is the shape? And that is unique to each company.

[Interviewer]

Why is concave a good thing?

[Tony Hawk]

Just keeps your foot in place.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

Especially when you're up on big walls and stuff. Like, if the board's flat, there's a good chance your foot's going to slip off. Once you get.

[Interviewer]

Does the shape of the nose or the tail make a difference?

[Tony Hawk]

Makes a difference. Mostly because we learned that as skating evolves, people start skating backwards. So now you need a nose that's just as long as the tail. I would say that was the biggest shift of equipment from the 80s to the 90s, because then the 90s, all the boards looked like popsicles.

[Interviewer]

So now they're reversible.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah. And you're using. You're using the nose as much as the tail.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Still.

[Interviewer]

Does one side have more of a kick to it or. Not necessarily.

[Tony Hawk]

They're pretty much the same.

[Interviewer]

Pretty much. Same front and back.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

If I were to show you my board, you would not know which is the front or the back.

[Interviewer]

Is there a front and a back?

[Tony Hawk]

There is, yeah. I just know because it's very subtle. But I've been riding the same shape for, like, 20 years, so no.

[Interviewer]

Do you think of skateboarding as competitive?

[Tony Hawk]

I think there is a sector of it that is competitive, sure. When I was growing up, the only way that you were going to get any recognition, sponsorship, support, was through competition. There was no YouTube. The magazines didn't care what you were doing unless you were competing.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about a competition. I've never seen a skate competition.

[Tony Hawk]

Well, basically my era was pool competition. So there would be. Used to be a main pool at every skate park. That's the competition pool. Del Mar was the keyhole. And then you would go. There would be whatever, however many people in town. 100 skaters. You'd have prelims, and they would cut it down to maybe 16 people. Then you'd have semifinals, and then they would cut it to eight, and then eight people would generally get three to four runs, 45 seconds each. If you bail, you can get back up, start again. But if you fall, you're not going to win. You get marked way down. And you got to do something like, you know, just pull some brand new move out of your ass if you fall. And to even be considered back in the lineup, it was supposed to be about your style, your airtime, trick selection. And when it came down to it, in our day, it was just kind of like who's the coolest?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And who was the coolest? Christian Lasoy.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, Right.

[Tony Hawk]

And so to combat that, I had to come up with the craziest trick wise because they hated my style. They didn't. You know, I was bony. Like, I was the nerdy kid that was just trying to maneuver my board and looked awkward doing it. So I had to do, like, mctwist, but do a variation of mctwist, like, throw my board another 180, grab it a different way, and that was the only way that I was going to get seen.

[Interviewer]

So do you say what Christian was doing was easier for him to do than what you were doing?

[Tony Hawk]

It wasn't that. It was just more that he looked so smooth. Yeah, he was amazing. You know, he could go twice as high as any of us and do some of the hardest tricks, too. I'm like, he not lost on me. Like Christian. He had the moves just for instance, his lean air. What would count for probably one of my harder tricks. Yeah, I can do lean airs, but they didn't look like him.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

You know.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you had to do something over and above and.

[Tony Hawk]

And I have to hide it from the judges because if they saw me do it in practice, then they wouldn't be impressed. And if I didn't do it, they're like, what about that trick we saw? And I would get marked down.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

So they were judging me against what they thought I was capable of.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So it was tricky, but, I mean, whatever. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Like, all that just fueled my fire to keep getting better and better and better.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Would you ever get there a day earlier to practice something in the place where it was going to happen?

[Tony Hawk]

I would practice it, not in the place where it was going to happen, because everyone shows up a day or two early.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

And that's when you're under the microscope.

[Interviewer]

But how different is it from place to place?

[Tony Hawk]

Well, at some point, it evolved from pools to ramps. So the ramps were a little more reliable in terms of being similar to each other. You know, they were all wooden, and they were generally better to fall on wood. 10 to 11, seems like. Yeah, I think so. I prefer falling on wood than concrete, for sure.

[Interviewer]

It seems like it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

It's funny you say that, because they're having an event of this sort of legendary concrete bowl they're having in January, and it's going to be the last one there, and they're having a legends division. Everyone's like, you got to go. And I was like, I do not want to fall in concrete. It's not a matter of if I'm going to fall, it's a matter of when I'm going to fall.

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[Interviewer]

Tell me about your shyness when you were young. How would you experience it?

[Tony Hawk]

I just didn't feel like I belonged, so I just would be very.

[Interviewer]

Just quiet and resilient.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, just, just introverted. And then when I started skating good, that was my voice and so I used that as much as I could. And then, and then people thought I was arrogant because I wasn't talking to anyone and I'm just, just shy, doing all this crazy tricks and I was like, I don't know how to talk to people. I don't know, you know. And I think I broke out of it eventually because Stacy Peralta said, look, you know, there's all these kids here, they literally bought a skateboard with your name on it. They're staring at you like, go talk to them. Like, I'm not even comfortable in my own skin. How am I going to talk to these guys?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And eventually I just kind of learned to move through that discomfort and be available and be interactive.

[Interviewer]

Would you think of Stacy as a mentor for you?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about sponsorships. How do they work for skateboarders?

[Tony Hawk]

Usually it's a contract, like an annual contract. In the case of there's a strange disconnect with skateboard companies, actual like who make manufacture skateboards because they are not the biggest in the industry, like in terms of sales. So hard goods are the hardest to maintain a legitimate business with. You are officially a pro skateboarder if you Have a skateboard with your name on it. But the irony is that that's not going to be what makes you money. It's if you have a shoe deal, energy drink deal, car sponsorship, or your competition earnings, but the skateboard company is the very least of your income, but you're identified through that. It's very strange.

[Interviewer]

You can't get the sponsorships without being.

[Tony Hawk]

You can. I mean, there are people that do it, for sure. They're more focused on competition.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But the ones that are, they're like vying for skater of the Year for Thrasher. They're out in the streets, they're getting the craziest footage. They definitely have a skateboard sponsor.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about the culture of skateboard shops.

[Tony Hawk]

Well, that was the hub. I mean, that was where you would go to find your crew, to talk shop, to watch videos.

[Interviewer]

They typically be places that only sold skateboards. Or would they sell other things?

[Tony Hawk]

It depends on the era. Generally it would only nowadays. Well, I would say through the 80s and 90s, only sold skateboards for sure. But in the early days, yeah, it could be just sporting goods and they had a little skate section in the back. And also they're the ones that support the local scene. You can't dismiss them. Like, even if their online sales have affected their business and whatnot, or they're struggling, they usually are the ones that people look to to put on local events to get teams to do demos.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

When I talk to people about those 80s and that era and doing demos, the first thing I say is, oh, yeah, I saw you guys at this shop. The shop is what they remember.

[Interviewer]

Is there a crossover between skateboarding and like X Games?

[Tony Hawk]

And I think that there's a synergy in that. We use the same terrain.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

For instance, in the early 90s, I wasn't getting a lot of jobs as a vertical half pipe skater, but I would get invited to be a special guest at the rollerblade demos and the BMX shows at the state fair. And that paid my rent. Yeah, I was the special guest at Matt Hoffman's BMX show for the Michigan State Fair for two summers in a row.

[Interviewer]

And would it be like BMX scene in some ways replace the skateboarding scene or. Not really.

[Tony Hawk]

No, not really. I think in the early 90s, inline skates did for sure.

[Interviewer]

Inline skates?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, rollerblades.

[Interviewer]

But you can't do tricks. Not really.

[Tony Hawk]

But they did skate rams and they were selling tons of these rollerblades, so people would come see and pay to see those shows. So I did shows. Like, I was again, special guest at Six flags parking lot, St. Louis for a whole summer in a rollerblade live show.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but you would skate.

[Tony Hawk]

I would just skate, yeah. Because there were some people that they knew my name from the 80s.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So it's like, yeah, I remember that guy. I could do all the tricks. So you know what I mean? Like, people that want to bash inline skating while they're playing whatever. I was like, dude, that was. I'm so thankful that they were around back then.

[Interviewer]

When did your connection to video games start and how?

[Tony Hawk]

Around 1997, a guy approached me because he had a crude engine for a skate game that he had coded on his PC. And he said, hey, I think we could do a skate game. Do you want to go with me and pitch it to different publishers? And so he and I went to a bunch of different meetings. We went to some software studios. We went to actually Nintendo. And I mean, I remember one quote was, skateboarding is not even popular. Why would a skateboarding video game be popular? And I said, well, skateboarding games were popular. We had 720. We had skate or Die. I think now that we're at a different stage of video game and home consoles, we could do something fun. And even if people don't skate, they would like it. It's like, no. And then about a year later, less than a year later, I got a call from Activision. They said, hey, we heard that you might be working on a skateboard game. So I tried, but it didn't work. And they said, well, we are working on a skateboard game. We just did a game called Apocalypse featuring Bruce Willis, which is the first time there was a name and likeness in a game. It didn't do very well, but the engine is perfect for skateboarding. And so we want you to come see what we're doing. And I went up to Activision the next week, and they handed me a controller and I started playing this game that was Bruce Willis on a skateboard with a gun on his back, skating through a wasteland. And immediately, like, I was doing ollies and kick flips and grabs, and I was like, oh, this is it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I just knew instinctively like that this. This is the game that skateboarders will want to buy a console to play.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And to me, that was the biggest success. Like, if it's good enough for skateboarders that they like what they're seeing.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Then that's a win.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It sounds like falling doesn't hurt as bad in the video oh, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

It is hard to watch, though. There are some animations of like my knee popping one way that I can't watch it happen. I have to choose a different character.

[Interviewer]

You talked about breaking your leg. And as someone who's suffered so many injuries over the years, tell me, in that moment when you realize what's happening, what's the thought process? Is it, oh, no. Or is it, okay, there goes two months. What do you.

[Tony Hawk]

It's that, like, how long is this going to take?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, it's just.

[Interviewer]

How long is it going to take?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And the only reason how long it's going to take is because. How long is it going to take before I can get back?

[Tony Hawk]

Yep. Yeah, that's it.

[Interviewer]

It's not. Well, it'll be painful for two months. That's not part of the thought.

[Tony Hawk]

No, I mean, that's a given.

[Interviewer]

It's just getting back.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Getting back. Yeah. Or, you know, did I damage this so, so completely that I can't get back?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Like, is it. I don't know what, you know, when I woke up the next morning from the surgery, like, oh, we got to run back in place and was like, okay, here we go, let's go.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But that was my fault for thinking that way.

[Interviewer]

What's the longest you've ever gone without skating?

[Tony Hawk]

It was during that time. It was probably the second time around. I. I didn't skate for about three months.

[Interviewer]

And then when you get back, is it always like, ah, I'm back? Yes.

[Tony Hawk]

Or is it the first go around of my broken leg? I thought it was going to be like that and it was just so painful and so weak. That's when reality hit me. I was like, oh, this. I'm never going to get back to where I was.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

But now, but now I would say, you know, I'm like 80, 90% of what I was before that. And. And if that's where I live, it's fine.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

How popular did the video game get?

[Tony Hawk]

It was the biggest game. It was insane. When the fourth game came out, the first three were still in the top 10 of sales.

[Interviewer]

It's unbelievable.

[Tony Hawk]

It's unbelievable.

[Interviewer]

How long was it between iterations?

[Tony Hawk]

We came up each year up until.

[Interviewer]

So in the fourth year, 1, 2 and 3 were all in the top 10. That's unbelievable.

[Tony Hawk]

Unbelievable. And then the consoles kept getting better, so then we're out.

[Interviewer]

I also love the fact that Nintendo is like, ah, no one's gonna like this.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, well, it wasn't. It wasn't Exactly. Nintendo. That said that. But because.

[Interviewer]

Because someone said it.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, you're right.

[Interviewer]

It's just that much more interesting when the powers that be. The experts.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Say it's a bad idea.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then.

[Tony Hawk]

But also, it took everyone by surprise. I mean, even the designers, you know, we were just kind of going rogue, like, picking music. I was just picking the soundtrack to my skating years. So we got Dead Kennedys and Primus and. You know what I mean? And they were all happy to lend a song because it was like, you guys want our music? Okay.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, sure.

[Tony Hawk]

And then all of a sudden, the soundtrack took on a life of itself. And people credit that for getting them into punk rock or ska or even hip hop.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I mean, it was. It's crazy. There are four cover bands that only play songs from our video game, one on different continents.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing the power of music in that way. I think if it wasn't for the Clash, I don't know that any of us would know any reggae or ska.

[Tony Hawk]

That's what. When people say, like, what's your. Like, what starts with the Clash in Gang of Four, and then everything fans out from there.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Gang Four. Incredible.

[Tony Hawk]

So great.

[Interviewer]

I got to see them live two times. Once at Irving Plaza and once at Roseland.

[Tony Hawk]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What a great band.

[Tony Hawk]

I remember, speaking of something like that. Like, I remember I saw Nirvana right after Nevermind came out in 1990 at a small venue in Houston because there was a skate event in Houston. And then everyone's like, nirvana's playing tonight. So all the skaters go to the show. And I remember as they started thinking, like, this is the coolest place you could possibly be in the world right now. And it went crazy. And I remember Jack Black told me that same thing about seeing Devo in 1980, where he's like, this is the greatest place anyone could think of to be right now.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Tony Hawk]

In the presence of this band.

[Interviewer]

I saw Devo in Boston in this theater. I don't know what it was called, but, like an old movie theater. And it was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life.

[Tony Hawk]

I know that place because in Boston.

[Interviewer]

You had to, like, walk through an alley to get to it. Even though you get to it, and it's big theater.

[Tony Hawk]

So when I was on tour in Boston on Bones Brigade tour, the Damned were playing there. And I was so excited.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And I walked in, they're like, it's 21 and over. And I was 20. I was like, come on, yeah. And just like, no, it's not.

[Interviewer]

I never got to see the damned.

[Tony Hawk]

Well, I didn't get to see him until 20 years later. But I still, like, I remember exactly. That moment was in slow motion to me where I saw the poster. I knew I was sitting there tonight and I was like, one ticket.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Like no bro.

[Interviewer]

In the history. We got to the point where it was 92. You start your own company. What's the next uptick in skateboarding?

[Tony Hawk]

X Games. X Games started in 95. It was still kind of a. It was a little scattered. It was a little wonky just with how they presented our sports because it was like, they're extreme.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Woo.

[Tony Hawk]

Camera angles like this and mohawks. And it was like, dude, that's not what it's all about. But they kind of found their groove. I'd say 97, 98.

[Interviewer]

What percentage of the X Games of skateboarding is it, like a third or a fifth?

[Tony Hawk]

I would say it was more like a fifth then. Yeah, it's about a quarter now. But all the other sports have shifted because back then it was like bungee jumping and sky surfing and eco channel. Just random stuff.

[Interviewer]

Do you think of yourself as a daredevil?

[Tony Hawk]

I think so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, I want to go off the high dive and, yeah, for sure. Bounce on the big trampolines and all that stuff.

[Interviewer]

Is it that you like that adrenalized feeling?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah. But not so much that I'm throwing caution to the wind. I like the idea that I am capable of this.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yes.

[Tony Hawk]

And, yes, it can be risky. And, yes, it's a little out of my comfort zone or skill level, but I know I can figure it out.

[Interviewer]

Has there been anything besides skateboarding that you've dedicated yourself to in that way?

[Tony Hawk]

Well, parenting, I suppose. Yeah. Which I had to learn kind of the hard way through my years of success where it was like, oh, you have to prioritize better and choose time with your kids. More so than whatever you think this other thing is important. And that took a while. I mean, definitely took longer than it should have.

[Interviewer]

What's the current state of skateboarding?

[Tony Hawk]

Pretty solid. Very international trick.

[Interviewer]

Still evolving.

[Tony Hawk]

Still evolving.

[Interviewer]

How often do you see something where you feel like, I can't believe you did that.

[Tony Hawk]

Absolutely. I mean, it took me 10 years to make a 900.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Right.

[Tony Hawk]

10 years of my life getting beat up.

[Interviewer]

You were the first person to do it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you were the only person to do it for a while.

[Tony Hawk]

For a couple of years, yeah. Then a Few people learned it. Then Tom Shar did a 1080. I don't know, maybe 10 years later or nine years later. Then Mitchie Brusco did a 1260. You know, as the ramps got bigger and they're like gymnasts. It's crazy. I just watched this is last year at our event Vertaler. We have a big vertcondost with my ramp. We bring it to Salt Lake City. I watched a 10 year old do three nine hundreds in a row. In a row.

[Interviewer]

10 years old.

[Tony Hawk]

10 years old.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

In his run, like that was part of his run.

[Interviewer]

Doesn't hurt as much when you fall.

[Tony Hawk]

On your team, but I mean, I can't believe I get to live in that timeline.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I was the one commentating. Like, I get to witness this. I get to call it. I get to try to explain the difficulty of that, even though I didn't.

[Interviewer]

So cool.

[Tony Hawk]

So cool.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And do you think it's that humans are evolving?

[Tony Hawk]

Sure. I think it's just we see what's possible and so we. That's the. That is a goal to start with.

[Interviewer]

It's like the six minute mile. Once it's broken.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Then a lot of people can do it.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. When I started skating, no one did 5 forties.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So 900 was impossible. Until it wasn't.

[Tony Hawk]

Right.

[Interviewer]

And now that it's not impossible, other people can do it.

[Tony Hawk]

Like now you skate, ramps start spinning.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's really interesting.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. It continues.

[Interviewer]

That's an example though, of again, just an iteration. Because There was a 720 before there was a 900.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Right, right.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. To put it in context, I did the first 720 in 1985 on a ramp way outside of Stockholm in this little town by a lake, with three people watching me.

[Interviewer]

Did you intend to do it or did it happen?

[Tony Hawk]

No, I intend to do it because the ramp was a little different design and allowed us to go higher. And so I was doing 540s a lot back then and I thought, well, maybe this is the ramp to go one extra spin. I learned it in like half an hour. There were three people watching me.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

No one cares, you know, I mean, it was cool. Yay.

[Interviewer]

So is that often the case where there'll be something in the environment that sparks you to do something that you couldn't do before?

[Tony Hawk]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Because you were reacting.

[Tony Hawk]

I was.

[Interviewer]

You didn't decide in advance, I'm gonna do this.

[Tony Hawk]

I didn't go with that intention.

[Interviewer]

No, but you saw the opportunity based on the real World conditions.

[Tony Hawk]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

Is it typically that way?

[Tony Hawk]

I would say it's half and half.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It seems like it would be easier if you got that glimpse than just, I have an idea. I'm gonna make it happen. If you get a glimpse.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Oh.

[Interviewer]

The speed or the height that I'm going now makes it easier to do this thing that I couldn't do before. You see the opportunity is different than a theoretical idea in space that you're gonna push to happen.

[Tony Hawk]

Sure. But it's interesting, like, going from that. That was 1985. I didn't make a 900 until 14 years later. To do that extra 180 took that much time and effort.

[Interviewer]

And do you remember when the 900 happened, what was different about what allowed that to happen?

[Tony Hawk]

There were a few things. One, that the ramp was built much better than most ramps at the time because no one had the budget to make great ramps, but ESPN did. And in the past, whenever I tried to make it, I would fall forward. And one time, I actually broke my rib around 1996. I had all the pieces of the puzzle. I'm doing it. Here it goes. And then I fell forward, broke my rib, had to go pick up my son in kindergarten. Like, couldn't breathe. No one was paying me to do that.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So it was all just for the passion of it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And then how long was it before.

[Interviewer]

You tried it again?

[Tony Hawk]

About a year. But I could not get that commitment again because I didn't, you know, for what.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I don't want to go through that again. But. And so I actually had a ramp built that was bigger than most ramps. It was in a bull ring. It was in Tijuana. It was like, oh, this is going to be sick. And I was doing all these other tricks, and I was like, I'll do 900 on this ramp. And then when I finally got to it, I was like, I can't. I'm. I don't want to get hurt again and be stuck in Mexico.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So the key to it was at the 99x games during the best trick event. I started trying it because I had done my best trick in the event prior to that, which was a 720 variation. So I already had that. And it was like, what's next? Well, what's next is a 900, you know, impossible.

[Interviewer]

So you've never done it?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The one time you tried, you broke your rib.

[Tony Hawk]

The one time I really committed to it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And now you're gonna do it in competition.

[Tony Hawk]

No, I Just started trying it. Cause it was like, here's the next thing that I would like to do. Here's the next stage of spinning. It was kind of like, for this crowd. Cause we never had a crowd like that. It was just kind of like me, like, yeah, check it out. This is what you know. And then after about my third attempt, I had a super good spin. I had way more speed than I usually had. And I was like, well, if I'm ever going to really try again, it might as well be here, because I don't mind getting hurt here. And so then I started fully committing to it. And when I did commit to the first one, I fell forward again, but it didn't get hurt. And there was something that happened there where it was like, you have to shift your body weight mid spin. That's the key. So the next one I tried.

[Interviewer]

And you could have never known that until you did it.

[Tony Hawk]

Until I did it unsuccessfully. Until I did it unsuccessfully and took the hit.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But took the hit. That wasn't so debilitating.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

That allowed me to get up again.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Because when the. The first time I got hurt and broke my rib, I didn't drive away going, man, I got to figure out how to shift my weight. I've drove oily going, fucking trick. I'm never going to do that trick.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Right.

[Tony Hawk]

I hate that trick.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

In that context, I just thought, okay, shift your weight. So then the next one I did mid spin. You know, there's a lot to think about. Cause you can't see anything when you're spinning that fast. Shifted my weight to my back foot, and when I came down, I fell backwards. It was kind of a hard slam, but I was like, that's it. Like, I fell forward, I fallen backwards. Split the difference. I made the next one.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Anything that intellectual where you're programming yourself to do it.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Just making these tiny adjustments every time and banking them.

[Interviewer]

So you must have great sense of your body in space because you're flying and spinning while this is happening.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. After a while you do. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing.

[Tony Hawk]

What I'd learned in those years, in the years after where. Watch what you wish for. Because then once I learned it, anytime I'd go do a demo anywhere, it's like 900. Come on, let's see. I'm like, oh, you guys, it's going to take everything. I have to do that again.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever do it more?

[Tony Hawk]

I did. Yeah. I ended up doing it like 30 times.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did it get easier or never.

[Tony Hawk]

It got easier to get to that stage of knowing I can do it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

So for instance, at X Games, I think it was like 11 attempts after that. It would usually take me less than five or six to get there.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But it always took a lot. It was never first try.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But what I learned in those years after is that as soon as you snap, if something's off, don't stop spinning. And I've told kids that who want to learn it. Like, look, if you go and you miss your board or whatever, do not open up, because you're going to open up and you're not going to know where you are, and you're going to be way further out of the ramp than you usually are, and you're going to get. You're going to get hurt.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Like, there's no question. So.

[Interviewer]

So by continuing to spin, what happens?

[Tony Hawk]

You come back around the wall and you can get to your knees.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Tony Hawk]

It's like you're so far off the wall, but you kind of your. Your spin and your trajectory brings you back to the wall if you keep spinning.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever spin where your back is to the wall instead of your knees?

[Tony Hawk]

The first time I ever tried it, yeah. Because I didn't know how fast to spin.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Right.

[Tony Hawk]

I did that in 1987. That's what prevented me from trying it after that, because I literally land on my back, like, oh. But if you open up anything you.

[Interviewer]

Can think of that I may have done at some point in my life, something physical that everyone can do, but that takes some practice to be able to do it. How similar is it to learning to ride a bicycle, what we're talking about?

[Tony Hawk]

It's kind of like if you've ever tried to do a flip off a diving board, that can seem like the scariest thing in the world. And once you leave the diving board, if you panic, you're going to end up on your back. Right?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

It's the same thing. If you go up to for 900 and something goes wrong, you panic, you open up, you're going to land on your back. One body motion is much more extreme than the other, but it's the same outcome.

[Interviewer]

I see. If you learn something like keep spinning, can that same idea apply to other tricks? Is that knowledge base deeper than that trick, or is it just that that one's.

[Tony Hawk]

That one's kind of on its own in terms of what it takes to get there.

[Interviewer]

What are some of the ones that are more general, like a technique you use when it's going wrong, that ends up having good effect on a lot of things.

[Tony Hawk]

That's hard to answer. I would say the things that you do up on the lip where you're getting your board and you're grinding with your trucks and you're grinding with the middle of your board, it's very easy to get lazy on that stuff. And your board will hang up on the top, and you think you're going to be in, and then next thing you know, you're on the flat bottom.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, right.

[Tony Hawk]

That's. We call that hanging up.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

There are very subtle feet maneuverings where you can avoid that, and you can use them for almost any lip trick.

[Interviewer]

Oh, good.

[Tony Hawk]

So you learn them from the basic ones.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But you get them so dialed that, you know, if you get in some certain position and, oh, your board's over the coping, you have that backup skill set.

[Interviewer]

Does the board ever hit you, fall on you, or. Yeah, I mean, but it's not a big deal.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I mean, it sucks, but.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I definitely have scraped up my knuckles, too. I mean, that. All this. My shin. Yeah, that's my skateboard.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is there some piece of equipment that you can imagine that would allow gains in skating that have never happened?

[Tony Hawk]

That's how people got to do 1080s and 1260s. Is that. What do they have, foam pits and bigger ramps?

[Interviewer]

So it's just. You can fall much easier.

[Tony Hawk]

You can fling your body. You don't have to worry about opening up or spinning. If you're flying in a foam pit.

[Interviewer]

I see past the foam pit. Is there anything that can take it further?

[Tony Hawk]

I don't know. People try to. Try to develop harnesses and things like that, and I'm still old school. Like, I learned in the school of hard knocks. I learned on concrete, all this stuff. So I don't really have a gauge where it's like, yeah, go try that. Easy way in.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Who would you say was the most influential skater on you?

[Tony Hawk]

Eddie Algara, because he was the most innovative skater at the time when I was coming up. And he got ridiculed because they called him a robot because he was learning tricks. And I was like, that's.

[Interviewer]

I want to do that.

[Tony Hawk]

I want to learn tricks.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I learned his signature trick, frontside rock and roll, when I was, like, 11. And they moved me up two divisions as an amateur because I could do frontside rock and rolls. I couldn't do anything else, but they're like, oh, that kid can do front rocks. Put him in 3A and I was like, okay. I say it a lot. He was in the right place at the wrong time. He was like the most innovative skater at a time when skating was in its lowest point.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is there any training you can do outside of skating that makes you a better skater?

[Tony Hawk]

I would have said no a long time ago, but these days, at my age. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I work out three times a week doing strength and conditioning and stretching and it helps my skating just in terms of my endurance, mostly.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

With my leg, it's unlocked some. Some positions that I can now get back into that I couldn't.

[Interviewer]

When you were younger. Do you feel like when I was.

[Tony Hawk]

Younger, it was the antithesis.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Working out like. That's for jocks.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Jocks hate us.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I'm not doing anything that. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna do anything that football or baseball players are doing. You know, I got away with it for a long time because, like, I could, like, I was. I was lanky and I was skinny and I was flexible and so I could just show up just any ramp, cold turkey and do a bunch of crazy shit.

[Interviewer]

How much of skateboarding is feel?

[Tony Hawk]

I'd say it's half feel, it's half visual.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever skated with either blindfolded or eyes closed?

[Tony Hawk]

No.

[Interviewer]

Would it be possible or no?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, I mean, there are blind skaters, but I rely on watching my board and seeing the coping. And so much of what I do is watching the edge of the ramp and my relation to there. So I need that at all times. Mostly. Yeah. If I'm spinning or if I'm going to be blind to it, I know the feeling of where I am in the air too. And what needs to be adjusted to make it work.

[Interviewer]

Does it feel good when you're going fast?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, yeah, it's cool.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever get into skateboard videos?

[Tony Hawk]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I. The first thing I did when I started Birdhouse was make a video.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Oh, cool.

[Tony Hawk]

We sold it for five bucks and we asked people to mail five bucks to us in the mail. And then we sent them a VHS in 1992 and were videos the way.

[Interviewer]

That people learned, saw new moves and that time.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah, for sure.

[Interviewer]

How big was the tape trading world?

[Tony Hawk]

It was big. I mean, I. I don't know how many we sold. I think we only made 500. Yeah, but.

[Interviewer]

But they were influential to this day.

[Tony Hawk]

People were like, dude, feasters. I remember that. Yeah, they got passed around. They. They would break.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about the skate park project.

[Tony Hawk]

That is my foundation for public skate parks in underserved areas. We've been doing it for 24 years now and it's definitely my proudest work. Cuz I saw skateboarding on the rise obviously in the early 2000s, mid 2000s, with the success of the X Games and our video game. And skating was just everywhere and there were no facilities and cities were not providing. I just thought if there's something that I can do to give back to this world, it's provide skate parks. Because my skate park was my salvation as a kid. This is where I spent all my time, where I met my closest friends, where I learned my skill, but also just felt a sense of belonging. That's what it was. Like we were the nerds and the outcasts, like we were the misfits. And the skate park was our happy, our safe place.

[Interviewer]

So how do you get it to happen?

[Tony Hawk]

Through having a voice and a name that city councils would recognize and advocating for the kids in the areas that are trying to get it themselves. So I'm not taking credit for it. I just became a conduit for it. And it was like, these kids need a skate park. Listen to them. You're giving them tickets every day because they skate wherever at the mall they skate. Like they're not going to quit skating.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And if you provide a skate park, people want to come to your city.

[Interviewer]

How do you know where to go to advocate for a skate park?

[Tony Hawk]

Oh, I mean, it's. At some point you learn the process. The city civil process can actually work. Like if you, if you work the system, you can't make.

[Interviewer]

It's pretty similar place to place.

[Tony Hawk]

Kind of. Yeah. I mean it requires city council meetings, petitions, hearings, but sometimes it's like, hey, this, this guy has this land, he'll donate it. Well, that's one huge hurdle to get over.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Or we only need this much more to reach our goal for funding. And it's like some wealthy person in that area had a deep history with skiing and be like, I got it. And then we're the ones that can connect those dots.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Great.

[Tony Hawk]

To date, we've helped to fund over 900 parks.

[Interviewer]

Amazing. It's a huge number.

[Tony Hawk]

Huge.

[Interviewer]

Huge. And globally or mostly in the states?

[Tony Hawk]

In all 50 states. But we have a partnership with Skateistan who they provide skate parks and educational facilities in South Africa, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Jordan. We help them with their projects because there was no one I would trust more.

[Interviewer]

How would you say besides the fact that you've dedicated your life to it, it's provided for you and your family. How else has skateboarding changed you?

[Tony Hawk]

It's given me a sense of confidence that I don't think I would have found anywhere else. And an identity. Everything that I do almost inherently is connected to skateboarding, even with my kids in a lot of ways. And so I identify with it, but I identify with it proudly. And for instance, like when I was in, when I was a freshman in high school, I was a pro skater, right. I was the top amateur skater. I was about to go pro. I had to hide my skateboard before I went to school. Like I would hide it in the bushes near the bungalows because I would get harassed at school with it. Like I would get bullied or it would steal it or they would like beat me up or put me in the trash can or whatever, like that was going to happen. And then I would go through the day and try to be low key and out of everyone's way and then go get my skateboard at the end of the day and skate home and then go to the skate park and be there until closing learning all these tricks. And it wasn't that I was embarrassed to be a skater. It was just hard to identify that it was dangerous. Yeah. And nowadays, like I'm old as fuck and I like go on a plane and I put my skateboard up in the overhead bin in first class, take up space for other people and I'm like, this is me, this is who I am. You know, take it or leave it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And so I just mean like it's become so. It's an extension of my body now and it's something that I am very proud of.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I'm so glad that you get to continue doing it at the level that gives you that feeling of joy. It's amazing.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, amazing.

[Tony Hawk]

I am so lucky. I'm living the dream. Like, I'm so lucky.

[Interviewer]

When you were 14, could you have imagined the grown up you doing this?

[Tony Hawk]

No.

[Interviewer]

I mean, it's unimaginable.

[Tony Hawk]

When I was 24, I made the washed up skater list in Big Brother.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I was washed up at 24.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Still learning tricks, but for what?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, because nobody else cared.

[Tony Hawk]

I mean, I did.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. I would. I still do.

[Interviewer]

No, but that's the beauty of it is your dedication is what allowed the whole thing to happen.

[Tony Hawk]

That's something that I. It's hard for me to accept, but I'm hugely proud of it. You know, if, if I did anything to raise the profile of skating or if someone got inspired by me and my dedication or stubbornness. It's the best thing that I could hope for.

[Interviewer]

What's the last trick that you were committed to doing that took a long time to get to?

[Tony Hawk]

I did that trick the impossible. I did what we call a front foot impossible. So you take off and you use the other foot to wrap the board around. So it's like a two part process. It makes it take more time.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And then I did it to a backside error. I had never done it and I had to do it. I had to do it really high to have all that time to do it. And I had to set up with my feet in an awkward position. So when you do tricks aerials to get speed, there's kind of a standard aerial that you do that's just functional. It's just for getting speed.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I couldn't do it like that because I had to have my foot in this fucked up position and it was in the way of my hand. So I had a different type of error and I kept trying it, trying it, like, got close a couple times and finally set a date. This is it. We're getting this on film.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I had a Teba Jefferson there, shooting a sequence of it and I made it, but it was. It was so fucking hard.

[Interviewer]

Is that the only time you've ever done it?

[Tony Hawk]

Only time. The only time I'll ever do it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

I landed one and fell on foot.

[Interviewer]

How many hours would you say it took to get to be able to do it, just focusing on that trick?

[Tony Hawk]

It was probably a year of off and on attempts.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Like an hour at a time. So.

[Interviewer]

So you knew it was possible, you just hadn't done it yet.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And it was just as hard as I imagined to do. Like, probably harder than I imagined because the one time that I did try to make it, I thought I had it and then I just fell backwards across the flat and it was like, fuck if I can't make it. Like that.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And then the one was.

[Interviewer]

There were breakthrough or it was just.

[Tony Hawk]

No, it was just. Just inching towards it, Inching towards it. And then finally Landon1 went up on the deck, just collapsed like that's it.

[Interviewer]

Are there any tricks that have taken a really long time to learn, but once you learn them, you can do them like it's nothing?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How does that happen?

[Tony Hawk]

You just get more confident with it. Back in the day, we learned tricks to have them in our repertoire. So like in Bones Brigade days, if you learned a trick, you're going to Keep doing that trick going forward.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

It's only in the last 20 years or so where it's like, that trick is so hard. I'm only going to do it.

[Interviewer]

It's a one time only.

[Tony Hawk]

It's a one time thing.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But for sure, like, there have been some other tricks that I've learned fairly recently. And it was like I could throw that in there. Like, that's a pretty cool one.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What gets you excited about learning a trick? Just the fact that haven't seen it done before and you can do it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Or. Or even if it's something that has been done.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

But you haven't done it. But I've never done it. Like, that's exciting to me.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And that, that buzz when you land something that you've never done, that buzz, like, that's. That's the dragon.

[Interviewer]

Does watching skateboarding excite you as much as it always did?

[Tony Hawk]

It probably excites me more now because of the possibilities now because I'm seeing what's next. In a lot of ways, I was trying to help create what's next, especially through those 80s and 90s, but now it's way beyond what I'm doing. And so I've just watched it like I never imagined.

[Interviewer]

And you're astounded by what you're seeing.

[Tony Hawk]

I'm astounded, yeah. It's unreal.

[Interviewer]

What's the craziest thing you've ever seen?

[Tony Hawk]

There are tricks that Bob Burnquist has done, and he's more of a generation of like 90s era, but there are tricks that he has done that I'm convinced no one else will ever do. For instance, we're in the weeds here, but he did a front side 540, which is not usually you do backside McTwist. McTwist is a 540. There's a trick called a gnar jar.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

What's that?

[Tony Hawk]

So a body jar is when you go up in the air and then on the way down, you land on the tail. And it's very risky because if you're trying to land on the tail, it's a good chance you're going to miss and your trucks are going to go over and you hang up and you're down. If body jars go wrong, you're getting KO'd, you know what I mean? There's no safe way out of a bad body jar. A nar jar is a 540. And then on the way down, you come down on your tail. It's the gnarliest of jars. Right?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

There's like four people in the world that have done it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And to this day, I'm like.

[Interviewer]

But when you see it, it's just, like, terrifying.

[Tony Hawk]

It's terrifying even to watch it, because you know, what can go wrong as a skater?

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Other people see it and they're like, oh, that was cool. 540 hit his tail and it's like, Bob did it. Front side.

[Interviewer]

Are there things that you ever see in street skating that are, like, astounding to you?

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. The way that people can just pinch into a rail and just stay on a rail now. And they're on a rail and then they're setting up their other foot for what is going to happen when they come off that shit. Like, it's so far beyond me. I cannot believe it.

[Interviewer]

It's wild.

[Tony Hawk]

It's wild. It's what we put in our video games so that you could skate in a fantastical way. Because we never thought that stuff would be possible.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

And now a lot of the skaters now grew up playing those games.

[Interviewer]

And they can do it.

[Tony Hawk]

They can do it.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable.

[Tony Hawk]

Unbelievable.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable. I think sci fi works that way too. You read things in sci fi books that are impossible, but then 20 years later, the seeds are planted.

[Tony Hawk]

20 years later, it's better than it was in that version of it.

[Interviewer/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Tony Hawk]

Yeah. Technography.

[Interviewer]

Technography.

[Tony Hawk]

Tetragrammaton is a podcast. Tetragrammaton is a website. Tetragrammaton is a whole world of knowledge.

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