Episode Overview

Podcast: Texas Family Law Insiders
Host: Holly Draper
Guest: Amy Rod, Board Certified Family Law Attorney
Episode Title: Managing Pro Se Litigants in Family Law: Practical Advice for Texas Attorneys
Date: December 10, 2025

Main Theme:
This episode features Amy Rod, an experienced board-certified family lawyer practicing in rural Texas, sharing practical advice, ethical considerations, and courtroom strategies for attorneys dealing with pro se (unrepresented) litigants in family law cases. Amy and Holly discuss the increasing prevalence of pro se parties, unique ethical and procedural dangers, and actionable tips for keeping cases efficient, fair, and professional.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Amy Rod’s Background and Practice

• Amy practices in several Gulf Coast Texas counties and is their only board-certified family law attorney.
• Her path to family law was “accidental,” driven by the practice needs in a small firm.
• Emphasizes versatility and variety in small-town law practice, handling cases from family law to municipal prosecution.
  ([02:07]–[05:06])

The Rise of Pro Se Litigants

• Pro se parties are increasingly common: “One of my district judges... calculates that at least 80-85% of the divorces... at least one party is pro se.” ([05:29])
• The trend is attributed to economic pressures, online resources, and shrinking options for affordable representation.
• Both rural and urban practitioners are seeing more pro se parties; the phenomenon transcends location.
  ([05:29]–[06:19])

Ethical Considerations (Rule 4.03)

• Clear Boundaries: Attorneys must make it explicit to pro se parties that “you don’t represent them.”
  ([06:53])
• Shared Representation: It is a public misconception that one lawyer can represent both sides if they “agree” (“Can’t you just represent us both?” – [07:35])
• Alignment Exception: Only in rare, truly aligned situations (e.g., grandparents and parents agreeing on custody) can the lawyer represent both, but must confirm absolute alignment and obtain written acknowledgement from all parties.
  ([08:54]–[09:44])

Giving Information vs. Legal Advice

• Legal Information vs. Advice:
  • Providing website links, courthouse procedures, or pointing to resources like Texas Law Help is permitted.
  • “You can’t tell them which form to go get—that’s legal advice.” ([09:54])
  • Ethical to share resources, but not recommend specific strategies or actions.
• No Duty to Help: “We have no duty to help... I don’t need to give them the address of the courthouse if I don’t want to.” ([13:05])
• Case-by-case Judgment: Sometimes, helping the pro se litigant can actually facilitate settlement or efficiency, but this must be balanced against one’s duty to their client.
  ([11:29]–[13:45])

Negotiations with Pro Se Parties

• Always restate in writing: “I don’t represent you. I’m not your attorney. I can’t give you any legal advice.” ([15:01])
• Use plain language and written summaries to avoid misunderstandings—especially for complex issues like possession schedules.
• Understand the pro se party’s level of sophistication or education; adjust communication accordingly.
• Anticipate that disclosures can be overwhelming—simplify requests whenever possible.
  ([15:01]–[19:35])

Keeping Cases Moving Forward

• Scheduling Orders: Use court-signed scheduling orders at the earliest opportunity—lists mediation, disclosure, pretrial, and trial dates. This gives the pro se party deadlines and accountability.
  ([20:18])
• Communicate via email/writing wherever possible, and outline in simple terms which documents are needed.
• Use third-party discovery (like subpoenas or depositions) if effectiveness of direct requests is in doubt.
  ([22:37]–[23:51])

Discovery With Pro Se Parties

• Avoid legalese; spell out exactly what you need (“If my client can bring me last year’s retirement statement... I don’t need five years of retirement statements.” – [24:33])
• Minimize requests for old or irrelevant documents in low-asset cases.
• Suggest running a credit report to identify unknown accounts early.
  ([24:33]–[26:05])

Courtroom Strategies Against Pro Se Litigants

• Expectation Setting: Warn your client to expect more leeway for the pro se party and less for themselves (“The judge is going to let the other party do a lot of that. And so you’re going to be frustrated because it’s going to look like the judge is helping them.” – [26:17])
• Objections: Be judicious; object only to issues that matter or harm your client.
  • “If they’re just rambling... it’s not going to hurt your client, whatever.” ([29:15])
  • Make running objections for frequent rule violations without being a “bully.” ([31:40])
• On the Record: Ask the judge to clarify oral rulings and timelines in detail at the end of a trial to avoid post-trial confusion.
  ([31:58])

Finalizing Orders & Avoiding Entry Hearings

• Seek specific on-the-record rulings regarding logistics, deadlines, and details immediately after trial; helps draft accurate orders and reduces post-trial disputes.
• Try to get the judge to set an “entry date” on the record before leaving court.
  ([31:58]–[33:29])

The Importance of Kindness & Professionalism

• Maintain respect for pro se opponents, regardless of their demeanor or knowledge.
• “I think it’s important for us on a macro level as attorneys to show that we can be respectful... It’s not my job to get over on somebody because they can’t afford a lawyer.” ([33:56])
• Being kind can diffuse tense situations and pave the way for resolution, especially if the pro se party expects a fight.
  ([33:56]–[36:41])

Advice for Young Family Lawyers

• Sense of Humor: “Family law is hard. The clients are difficult. The circumstances are difficult.” ([36:51])
• Honesty: Don’t give clients unrealistic expectations.
• Ask for Help: Reach out to other family lawyers; Amy emphasizes the bar’s collegiality and willingness to help.
  ([36:51]–[38:47])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “One of my district judges made the comment from the bench the other day that he calculates that at least 80 to 85% of the divorces that he has in front of him, at least one party, is pro se.”
  — Amy Rod ([05:29])

• “You have to let that party know that you don’t represent them. And you have to be very, very clear about that from the outset.”
  — Amy Rod ([06:53])

• “You can point them to Texas Law Help... but you can’t tell them which form to go get. That’s legal advice.”
  — Amy Rod ([09:54])

• “We have no duty to help. I mean, I don’t need to give him the address of the courthouse if I don’t want to.”
  — Amy Rod ([13:05])

• “It’s easier for me to deal with another attorney than to deal with a pro se person.”
  — Amy Rod ([14:08])

• “You’re going to be frustrated because you’re going to want to do the same thing and you’re not going to be able to because you’re represented.”
  — Amy Rod ([26:17])

• “Is the pro se party going to ask a thousand leading questions? Probably… sometimes a good way to handle that… is just to let the court know these are leading questions…”
  — Amy Rod ([30:28])

• “It is my job to represent my client. And I’ve also found… if you’re nice, that will diffuse that situation pretty quick.”
  — Amy Rod ([33:56])

• “If you reach out and say, hey, can you give me a few minutes and you can get the help and then you’ll feel better.”
  — Amy Rod ([38:47])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Amy’s background and entry to family law: [02:07]–[05:06]
• On the rise of pro se parties: [05:29]
• Ethical rule 4.03 and communication: [06:53]
• Giving information (not advice): [09:54]
• Negotiations and communication best practices: [15:01]–[19:35]
• Moving cases forward & scheduling orders: [20:18]
• Discovery approaches: [22:37]–[26:05]
• Courtroom strategies with pro se litigants: [26:17]–[31:40]
• Order drafting and post-trial tips: [31:58]
• Kindness and professionalism: [33:56]
• Advice to young family lawyers: [36:51]–[38:47]

Summary Table: Do’s & Don’ts with Pro Se Litigants

| Do | Don’t | |--|--| | Restate in every communication: “I don’t represent you.” | Give advice or recommend specific forms | | Communicate in plain, written terms | Overwhelm with legalese or form requests | | Propose and get scheduling orders signed early | Expect pro se parties to know deadlines or rules | | Educate clients about likely courtroom dynamics | Object to every minor infraction | | Be respectful and professional regardless of the other side’s demeanor | Try to "get over" on someone due to lack of representation | | Seek help from colleagues as needed | Try to navigate unfamiliar scenarios alone |

Resources

• Amy Rod’s firm: paulwebpc.com
• Texas Law Help: texaslawhelp.org

This episode is a must-listen for Texas practitioners seeking concrete strategies, clarity on ethical boundaries, and reminders on civility in handling the increasing challenge of pro se litigants in family law.