Miguel (4:13)

Coffee, yeah.

Ego Wodem (4:14)

And. And I want to talk about how it's drugs. It is. It's drugs. But we're always putting drugs in our body. Yes. Right.

Miguel (4:20)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (4:21)

Which reminds me of one of your songs.

Miguel (4:22)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (4:23)

Do you like drugs?

Anastasia (4:23)

Yes.

Ego Wodem (4:24)

Yes, of course. Do you?

Miguel (4:26)

I love drugs. Okay.

Ego Wodem (4:29)

Would you say, is it fair to say that the dare program didn't work for you?

Miguel (4:33)

It didn't work, but I did good in the course.

Ego Wodem (4:35)

You did. Okay. But you're like, no, I'm gonna try these drugs.

Miguel (4:37)

Yeah. I'm about to do this.

Ego Wodem (4:39)

I'm no favor drug.

Miguel (4:41)

Favorite drug. I'm a shrooms. I mean, I like everything.

Ego Wodem (4:46)

Yeah, though.

Miguel (4:47)

I like everything. There's a time and place for everything for me.

Ego Wodem (4:49)

What a good time. Miguel, did you bring drugs with you? Don't tell.

Miguel (4:53)

I'm on Quaaludes right now. Okay.

Ego Wodem (4:55)

Come on. Wolf of Wall Street. That's the only reference I know.

Miguel (4:58)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (4:58)

Of quail.

Miguel (4:59)

I've never had qua lubes. If you have any, please let me know.

Ego Wodem (5:01)

Okay. Reach out. We have a hotline. People can call. By the way, it's a real number. Call, call and leave a message and say you've got some Quaaludes from Miguel. Okay. My next guest. My next guest. As though it's rolling. My guest is a multi platinum award winning artist whose album is out right now. Newest album, Kaos.

Miguel (5:23)

Kaos.

Ego Wodem (5:24)

You like how I said that?

Miguel (5:25)

I love it.

Ego Wodem (5:26)

Okay. Did I do a good job?

Miguel (5:27)

Yeah, pronounced perfectly. Kaos.

Ego Wodem (5:29)

Okay. Because it means chaos.

Miguel (5:31)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (5:31)

Anyway, y', all, Miguel is here.

Miguel (5:33)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ego Wodem (5:35)

I'm so happy you're here.

Miguel (5:36)

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here. I'm so happy to meet you finally.

Ego Wodem (5:39)

Wait, I'm really happy.

Miguel (5:41)

I'm such a fan. Like, I'm. I am a massive fan.

Ego Wodem (5:43)

Thank you, Miguel. So I have to tell you, I am a huge fan of yours. And not in the way people say. That's, like, polite. I'm so happy when you said yes to doing this podcast. You have to know I was over the moon because I have to tell you this, and I brag about this all the time. So now to get to tell you.

Anastasia (5:58)

Okay.

Ego Wodem (6:00)

I like to feel like I discovered you. He's like, I feel like I'm the A and R. So shout out to whoever did it.

Miguel (6:09)

Let's go.

Ego Wodem (6:09)

Let's go. I like to feel like I'm the A and R. Who discovered you. MySpace.

Miguel (6:13)

Wow.

Ego Wodem (6:14)

I'm gonna say the year is 2007.

Miguel (6:18)

Early 2000s.

Ego Wodem (6:19)

2007. Okay, maybe 2008. MySpace. You are the song on my MySpace.

Miguel (6:26)

Let's go.

Ego Wodem (6:27)

Sure thing.

Miguel (6:28)

Yes.

Ego Wodem (6:28)

Okay.

Miguel (6:29)

Yeah, yeah.

Ego Wodem (6:30)

Like the OG Shore thing. That you probably, like, recorded with your own coin.

Miguel (6:34)

Yeah, for sure. In my bedroom, right?

Ego Wodem (6:36)

That is on my MySpace. You send me a message that says, thanks for the support. I flipped out.

Miguel (6:45)

That's right.

Ego Wodem (6:45)

Okay. So also, I had a friend, I was like, Miguel said, thanks for the support. Cause I don't even. I feel like I discovered your music on MySpace, so I didn't really discover Miguel. Guys, I'm not that cocky, but. You're incredible. But I think I discovered the music or found it for myself on MySpace. I was like, this is the sound of my dreams. Your voice.

Miguel (7:05)

Thank you.

Ego Wodem (7:05)

The production on that. You did that in your bedroom. You did the beat.

Miguel (7:08)

No, no, no, that's Happy Perez.

Ego Wodem (7:10)

Okay.

Miguel (7:10)

Happy Perez. Like, long, long time family, you know, through music. And incredibly successful in his own. On his own. And before meeting him, he was already successful more on the independent hip hop side. He was behind a lot of the no limit stuff. But he's from. He's from Texas.

Ego Wodem (7:30)

Okay.

Miguel (7:33)

I might get this wrong.

Ego Wodem (7:34)

Okay, that's all right.

Miguel (7:35)

He might have been back and forth to New Orleans. So he might be New Orleans. And then by way of New Orleans, went to. To Texas. But when I met him, it was more of it. He was like, Texas and he was. That's where he was from. And yeah, he was kind of like making his way to Los Angeles and really starting to branch out. And. And we met through Baby Bash.

Ego Wodem (7:54)

Baby Bash? I don't know. Baby Bash, the artist? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Miguel (7:58)

Yeah, that's.

Ego Wodem (7:59)

Is. Baby Bash is a friend, man.

Miguel (8:01)

Yes. He's known me since I was like 17, 18. But we met through, you know, just on the grind.

Ego Wodem (8:07)

Yeah.

Miguel (8:08)

And I met Happy. Happy gave me a beat cd and I made that song.

Ego Wodem (8:11)

And incredible. Because.

Miguel (8:13)

Made it to.

Ego Wodem (8:13)

Made it to my MySpace. It's like the equivalent of being on the top eight on MySpace.

Miguel (8:19)

That was. That was. Yeah, that was prestige, right?

Ego Wodem (8:22)

That was a big deal. Somebody's top eight. Like, I'm in the inner circle. Like, fuck a. Close friends.

Miguel (8:27)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (8:29)

There's, you know, close friends is unlimited.

Miguel (8:31)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (8:32)

But my space would have. Make you be like, who are your people? For real?

Miguel (8:36)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (8:37)

Yeah. And that's it, man.

Miguel (8:38)

It was a. It was a big thing. And. And that song, the. When they. When they. When they rolled that out, it was like you could have a song on your page. Are you.

Ego Wodem (8:45)

Oh. And it was a perfect sound. Sure thing. The original. So even when I hear the version we all know and love now, I'm like, but I heard the original. Sure Thing. And then I got that message. I mean, so my friend and I in college used to, like, kind of debate playfully about who we thought was going to be a megastar or not. And I was right about you is basically what I want to say. We would go back and forth. I won't say his name because.

Miguel (9:10)

Did you win some money?

Ego Wodem (9:11)

I didn't win any. He. And he was rich, too. I should have bet real money. He was rich. I went to usc, so rich kids.

Miguel (9:16)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (9:18)

Like. And I should have bet money. That is a regret of mine some. We should have put some money. Yeah, I actually hit him up today. So there was an artist who. I won't say, because we don't want to bash anybody.

Miguel (9:27)

No, not at all.

Ego Wodem (9:28)

Okay. And. And then there was you. And I was in the Miguel corner, and he was like, I think this person's gonna be the megastar. And I was like, you don't know what you're talking about. This man right here.

Miguel (9:37)

Let's go.

Ego Wodem (9:38)

Anyway, that Strawberry Amazing. I remember being in Chicago, visiting my sister, listening to Strawberry Amazing Quickie. I thought you were from Portugal at one point, because you speak Portuguese on there. What is that? Can you say what you. I'm like, a real fan. We're not even talking about the podcast right now. This is just me right now getting to fan girl, man.

Miguel (9:57)

This is a.

Ego Wodem (9:57)

You spoke Portuguese on that track. Can you rem me what you said?

Miguel (10:01)

Yeah. Which is like, I want to flee. But see, I had a very sarcastic Brazilian friend, and she was. I was like, yo, how do I say I'm trying to fuck? And she's like. She's like, cal Fuji. And she knew. I just said. I was like, bet that's how I say it. How I say it. I'm like, checking. And she's like, yeah, just like that.

Ego Wodem (10:19)

And that's not really what it means.

Miguel (10:21)

No.

Ego Wodem (10:21)

It's like getting one of those tattoos where people would get them in the Chinese characters, and it's like.

Miguel (10:26)

That's says like, my dog pees on me.

Ego Wodem (10:27)

Yeah. And that's not what I meant. I thought this meant and this too shall pass. But in many ways it could.

Miguel (10:32)

Yeah, it worked out. It worked out.

Ego Wodem (10:34)

It did work out on the track because you spoke in Portuguese and you said, yeah, baby, that was Portuguese. And I said, yeah, it is. I don't know what he said, but, yeah, that was Portuguese.

Miguel (10:42)

That's right.

Ego Wodem (10:42)

It's not. I want to. But it is Portuguese.

Miguel (10:45)

And it worked in the. In the context of the song where it's like, let's get out of here.

Ego Wodem (10:48)

So, you know, anyway, you've. Your career has been incredible. It's been fun to watch, and I am happy to be an early adopter. Miguel.

Miguel (10:58)

No, it was really like MySpace was a big part of the journey because when I did get signed and the song came out, everyone who supported on MySpace was really like, see? Yeah, that's what it felt like.

Ego Wodem (11:10)

That's what it felt like. It was really like. But. But also, you are an incredible talent. Like that voice of yours and what you're capable of. When did you know that you had it for real?

Miguel (11:26)

I mean, when you're a kid and you're just. The greatest thing about being a kid and people, like, believing in you is like, you just go with it.

Ego Wodem (11:35)

Yeah.

Miguel (11:35)

And I got lucky and I had enough people around me that were like, you can. You know, And. And so I never believed anything else. It was more of it. I was like, this is what I'm here to do and this is what I'm going to do. And I didn't realize what the odds were, you know, was there was no sense of. I have no connection. No. No one in my family is connected to the industry or.

Ego Wodem (12:00)

Yeah.

Miguel (12:00)

And it was much. It was different, you know, it's very different in our generation to. To be discovered, so to speak. It required a whole other. A whole other kind of connection and network, what have you.

Ego Wodem (12:16)

Yeah.

Miguel (12:18)

And I just believed it.

Ego Wodem (12:20)

Yeah.

Miguel (12:21)

I was delirious. I'm sorry. I was delusional.

Ego Wodem (12:23)

Delusional. Delirious, too. Now. Now we're both a little delirious right now. A little sleep deprived.

Miguel (12:29)

The coffee's helping, though.

Ego Wodem (12:30)

Yeah, but you were delusional in that way. And I feel like you have to be in order to achieve the success that you have or to do one of these unconventional sort of career paths. It requires that in a way that is undeniable. Because when you do start to think about the odds, if you do start to think about the odds, it's kind of evident that it's so unlikely that you will achieve your goals. That's. That's what most people would tell you. But if you're like, I'm not thinking about that, or I am aware of it, but I think it's gonna work out for me because that's kind of how I felt. I was like, it'll work. It's gonna work.

Miguel (13:00)

That's it.

Ego Wodem (13:00)

Yeah.

Miguel (13:01)

It's as simple and complicated and challenging is that.

Ego Wodem (13:04)

Yeah.

Miguel (13:05)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (13:05)

Did you strategize in any kind of way that felt unique to you or like, how did you strategize?

Miguel (13:12)

Not strategize. I. I really had a weird, just unshakable, knowing and like a faith.

Ego Wodem (13:22)

Yeah.

Miguel (13:22)

And I knew that somehow whatever happened in any decision, it would lead to something else that got me closer to where I wanted to go.

Ego Wodem (13:33)

Yeah.

Miguel (13:34)

And so I just trusted in that. And inevitably, you know, it did.

Ego Wodem (13:39)

Right?

Miguel (13:39)

It really did.

Ego Wodem (13:40)

It did. In a major way.

Miguel (13:41)

Was it like that for you too? Or was it a strategy and you.

Ego Wodem (13:44)

I feel like I'm like a strategist a little. Little bit. I mean, I don't know if so much now. I feel like I did have what you are describing, that delusion that was like, it's going to work out. So I, the reason I went, I went to college in la, so I went to la. My whole plan was I just got to get to la. I'm from Baltimore, so I was like, I just need to get to la. Where the TV and film happens. Yeah. It's so crazy. And I'm first generation Nigerian and my family's like, you're going to be a doctor. That's what we know for sure. And like, yes, because it's prestigious, if you will. But it's also because it's a stable career. Like you're always going to need doctors and people and that is a career where you will always be able to get a job and anywhere in the world. Anywhere in the world. Right. People are going to need doctors. But I was like, I will study biology, be pre med. And I just need to get to LA to see the lay of the land and be like. And then I'm going to figure out how to get to do this acting thing that I really want to do.

Miguel (14:36)

You're distracting them. You're like, cool, I'm going. I promise. It's like, it's biology. It's related.

Ego Wodem (14:41)

I love science, by the way in there. I like. People talk about how I have a biology degree. I'm like, I do have a biology degree, but I need you to understand my grades weren't good. Like, let's talk about the grade they gave me the degree, the grades.

Miguel (14:52)

The data you might produce may not be completely reliable.

Ego Wodem (14:56)

Correct. Don't ask me a question. Don't ask me to do CPR on you because. And I'm. I'm CPR certified, but if you ask me to do CPR on you, I hope you have a will in place because it's not going to.

Miguel (15:08)

It's easy to forget that CPR stuff though, it's crazy. It's really easy.

Ego Wodem (15:11)

It's. You forget the minute you walk out of the class. No.

Miguel (15:14)

You ever like, yeah, like push here and like with this kind of like pressure. And you're like, if it was to happen.

Ego Wodem (15:20)

Yes.

Miguel (15:20)

And you're like panicking.

Ego Wodem (15:22)

Exactly.

Miguel (15:23)

It could really go bad. I don't know that.

Ego Wodem (15:25)

To recall and push this way. And if it's a baby, do it this way. And if it's an adult, do it this way. I'm like, I'm too scared to do all that. But I got out to LA and I was like, my strategy is to get there and then I'll get to see what this industry is even sort of made up. So I even interned at a talent agency, like a now defunct talent agency. But I was like, maybe I can learn the business side and figure out what is effective or what doesn't work for me, for people. Like I was just came from good.

Miguel (15:53)

Your parents, your parents are college.

Ego Wodem (15:55)

I only have one. I only one parent. I mean, I guess I have two. One's dead. This is the premise of the.

Miguel (15:59)

Well, a parent and a. You know, I mean it's like. Yeah, yeah. It's like an actual.

Ego Wodem (16:03)

Everyone has. Do you think this is fair? Everyone has a dad, but not everyone has a father.

Miguel (16:08)

That's the right way of saying it. That's what I was trying to get to.

Ego Wodem (16:10)

Okay.

Miguel (16:10)

Yeah, absolutely.

Ego Wodem (16:11)

Yeah. So. But my mom was incredible and is like.

Miguel (16:15)

Is so shout out to your mom.

Ego Wodem (16:16)

Shout out to my mom.

Miguel (16:17)

Shout out to mom.

Ego Wodem (16:18)

Yes, and my mom and your mom. Shout out to all the moms. I know this is called thanks dad, but can we shout out to the.

Miguel (16:24)

Moms to the mom specifically?

Ego Wodem (16:25)

Yeah, yeah. Because what they do is incredible. And sometimes their mom and dad and.

Miguel (16:31)

A lot of times.

Ego Wodem (16:32)

And a lot of times they're that. And so we do want to shout that. We do want to shout them out.

Miguel (16:36)

Big, big shout.

iHeart Radio Announcer (16:43)

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Ego Wodem (17:49)

Okay, Miguel, can I ask who you want to say thanks to? Who or what you want to. Ooh, could be anyone, any day. Sure. Yeah.

Miguel (17:58)

Today I want to say thanks to d'. Angelo.

Ego Wodem (18:00)

Okay. Yeah, fair. I want to say thanks as well.

Miguel (18:04)

Yeah, I'm still kind of. It's. It's still. It's real hard to imagine that these days. I think it's important to remind myself that have an opportunity to wake up and be my own hero. But there are musicians that really just will always be my heroes, and d' Angelo is one of those ones that I never thought in a million years we would lose this soon. Someone that I looked forward to with so much hope and faith in terms of, like, what music could be and should be right. And how it could sound and feel. I just imagined that we would get more and.

Ego Wodem (18:54)

Yeah.

Miguel (18:55)

So I want to say thank you for the music that we did get, because the world won't sound the same without him.

Ego Wodem (19:00)

I think that is an accurate and beautiful way to put it. His music and his artistry, just otherworldly. Really, really, really otherworldly. One of my favorite songs of. If people ask me, I say one song. I say Salt Shaker by the Yin Yang Twins. But then my actual real. My actual real favorite song is Nothing Even Matters. Lard Hilda d'. Angelo. Just a beautiful song that every time I listen to feels different to me or means something different to me. And his voice on that track, the. Everything about that track is like perfection to me. And then also Send it on. So I spent a lot of time listening to Send it On. Yeah.

Miguel (19:41)

But nothing even Matters is one of those ones. It's just, like, matters. Oh, man. Also, the timing of that is crazy.

Ego Wodem (19:58)

Yeah.

Miguel (19:58)

The two of them on that song is like, just in. I think the thing that we forget about with music is that it's the timing of the music that makes it even more special.

Ego Wodem (20:10)

Yeah. Yeah.

Miguel (20:11)

But the timing of his music, you know, in terms of what him and a collective of the collective of soul Aquarians. And just that time, I think I just. Well, it's just one of those very special times.

Ego Wodem (20:28)

Always want to say thanks to. I mean, that was a remarkable time. And even that album Miseducation of Lauryn Hill she gave us that one perfect, flawless body of work that has now just transcended time and, like, has remained relevant. I think I saw. I mean, I did see years ago that it was put into the Library of Congress and I was like, rightfully so. That is correct. Some things are correct, and that is one. And I'm like, that album is perfection. Top to bottom. The kids on the interlude talking about what's love I'm like, the children, the babes are wise.

Miguel (21:03)

I do miss a good interlude, too.

Ego Wodem (21:05)

I know. Well, you know, here's my tough thing about an interlude is because when an interlude is actually musical and say it's not talking or it's not a voicemail, I'm like, I always end up wanting the interlude to be a longer song. I feel like on albums, interludes end up being maybe some, like, among my top three favorite tracks on any given album. I'm like, that interlude.

Miguel (21:24)

Why would you give us that little.

Ego Wodem (21:25)

And then I'm like, I want artists to then release a whole track of that. I feel like on a bonus album or something. Like, I want to hear the whole. I have a. I have a playlist on Spotify that is songs that should have been longer. They're all songs that are like two minutes long or shorter.

Miguel (21:41)

I feel like as artists, we should just do albums of interludes. Oh, that's actually kind of a banger.

Ego Wodem (21:47)

I. Absolutely a banger. If I could be a producer on one of yours. And by producer, just mean. I mean sit in a studio session.

Miguel (21:54)

You can pull up anytime.

Ego Wodem (21:55)

I genuinely. I'm like, there's so many interludes, and I'm like, they need to be longer. Made a full playlist. It's like, now. That's the only way I've been able to make peace. And I posted the playlist once, and I was like, this is how I've made peace with the fact that these tracks are so short. Combine them all into one playlist. That feels satisfying. I want you to make an album of interludes. If I have get to do one.

Miguel (22:15)

Request, I might actually. You might have to A and R this project.

Ego Wodem (22:18)

Like, I'm down and I really want somebody to put me on an album. This isn't me pitching. I just want to, like, talk shit on an album. It doesn't need to be yours, but.

Miguel (22:26)

I actually would love to have. Here's. There's a point in this. In making this album, Kaios, that we're putting out. I was. I was thinking of who I could call just to, like, for different Things to talk through. And, of course, the album kind of evolved, and it felt like it was more of an introspective kind of thing, and. Yeah, but it's always like, I've never done that.

Ego Wodem (22:46)

Yeah.

Miguel (22:46)

And I would. That would be so dope.

Ego Wodem (22:49)

Just a little like, D. Ray got to be on Kanye's. I mean, I wish I could be on an album. Or, like, you remember the DJ tags? Like, Raj Smooth. Ooh, boy. The greatest DJ in the world.

Miguel (23:00)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (23:01)

I'm like, I want to be that voice just one time. It's on my bucket list.

Miguel (23:04)

Any of the DJ drama. Early drama.

Ego Wodem (23:06)

Oh, my goodness. So good. So this album for you.

Miguel (23:10)

So we got a spot for you on the next. Yeah, the next one.

Ego Wodem (23:13)

Thank you, Miguel. I'm gonna make you proud.

Miguel (23:15)

We gotta do that.

Ego Wodem (23:16)

Make you proud.

Miguel (23:17)

As long as you make everyone laugh, it's good. Okay.

Ego Wodem (23:19)

Okay.

iHeart Radio Announcer (23:19)

Easy.

Ego Wodem (23:20)

Yes. And you see how when you went to. You sang Nothing even matters. I sat back.

Miguel (23:23)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (23:24)

I didn't try to take Lauryn Hill's part on because I was like, I'm not gonna be able to do that. So I'm letting you. I was tempted, and then I remembered, this is a podcast.

Miguel (23:31)

I'll do the same thing. I'll just get up out the way. I'm gonna let you just run it. Thank you. Just let you do that.

Ego Wodem (23:36)

I just know what my skills are in the face of a real singer. I'm not gonna even pretend we're gonna duet.

Miguel (23:42)

I feel like you could actually sing, though.

Ego Wodem (23:44)

You know what? I think I probably. My vocal coach says I can, but I'm like. And I did duet with Dionne Warwick once, so I wanna be very clear. Yes. On snl. It was really beautiful and kind of emotional. Frankly, I missed that. But it was. It was really special. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. And see, I'm talking it now. We're not warmed up.

Miguel (24:08)

People don't know how important it is to warm up, though. I.

Ego Wodem (24:11)

There's a whole thing. My vocal coach, who's, like, a legend. I haven't seen her in a little while, so she's probably like, please keep.

Miguel (24:17)

My name out your mouth.

Ego Wodem (24:18)

Yeah, that's. I'm not your coach, girl. I'm not your coach. Don't put. Don't put that on my name. But. Because she would probably also tell me I'm speaking incorrectly right now. Oh.

Miguel (24:27)

She's like, yeah, but do you hear.

Ego Wodem (24:29)

Do you think I'm speaking incorrectly? Honest to God, if you were my.

Miguel (24:32)

Vocal coach right now, I'm hearing a little nasal. I'm hearing a little nasal, Miguel. Or maybe from your throat.

Ego Wodem (24:39)

I asked. I asked. So I appreciate the honesty. I'm getting red right now. I don't know, but she really tried to help me.

Miguel (24:46)

Okay, tell me it makes a difference, though. It makes a difference. What do you do to warm up?

Ego Wodem (24:51)

Yes.

Miguel (24:54)

Mostly rope work. Like jump rope.

Ego Wodem (24:56)

Really?

Miguel (24:57)

Because the muscle memory of using your diaphragm to breathe will take the thinking out of, like, projecting and control.

Ego Wodem (25:06)

Okay.

Miguel (25:07)

So once you're kind of in that mode, you'll sing from your diaphragm more naturally.

Ego Wodem (25:12)

Okay.

Miguel (25:12)

But I also do, like, natural, like, the boring ones, like.

Ego Wodem (25:17)

All that shit. Do you. What did she. Oh, goodness. I'm trying to remember.

Miguel (25:22)

It's okay to curse.

Ego Wodem (25:23)

You can cuss. I cuss so much. God damn. All of it. Everything you need is available to you. Just pick from the bin. In fact, if you don't cuss on this episode, I'm going to feel some kind of way.

Miguel (25:35)

Okay, cool.

Ego Wodem (25:35)

Okay. Yeah. Wonderful.

Miguel (25:36)

All right.

Ego Wodem (25:37)

That's one. Okay. Yeah, we do fine at the end.

Miguel (25:41)

All right.

Ego Wodem (25:41)

Yeah, there's a cussing. There's a cussing bin over there.

Miguel (25:44)

Dollars or what?

Ego Wodem (25:45)

Hundreds. Bills for everyone. So I just made 100.

Miguel (25:48)

All right.

Ego Wodem (25:49)

Appreciate you. And by the way, I don't tell people the terms and conditions till after they cuss. I encourage them to cuss and then I'm like, you have to pay for that.

Miguel (25:56)

That's. It's a scheme. I see.

Ego Wodem (25:58)

Exactly. Little scheme, scheme, plot, plot. Okay. I need to hear about this album, but I also need to hear about you have a child now.

Miguel (26:07)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (26:08)

Which is so exciting. Congratulations.

Miguel (26:10)

Thank you. Thank you. It's why I need coffee.

Ego Wodem (26:12)

Ok. Because you were up all night.

Miguel (26:14)

I mean, you know what? He did really good out here. He's here in the city with me. He's with us. And these blackout curtains are going hard.

Ego Wodem (26:23)

Crazy.

Miguel (26:24)

I'm like, man 12, he slept for. He slept for like nine hours the other night.

Ego Wodem (26:29)

Game changer.

Miguel (26:30)

I'm like, we have blackout curtains, though. So I'm like, looking behind the curtain. I'm like, who made these? Like, what is the.

Ego Wodem (26:35)

Yeah, when it's thick like that. So you think. I mean, so he's a good sleeper. When the setting is correct for him, apparently. Yeah.

Miguel (26:43)

He's been going. He's like. He's 13 months now.

Ego Wodem (26:45)

Okay.

Miguel (26:46)

So he's getting. And he kind of like, he had. He got his teeth, like, really fast, I think, like abnormally fast.

Ego Wodem (26:54)

Okay.

Miguel (26:56)

But now his canines are coming in, so that's kind of messing with his sleep.

Ego Wodem (27:01)

Okay.

Miguel (27:01)

But maybe we had, like, a first wave of, like, a lot of pain, and now he's just. This is the most boring thing I've seen.

Ego Wodem (27:07)

No, I'm here for it. Cause this is. We talk about parenthood.

Miguel (27:10)

No kids, right? No kids.

Ego Wodem (27:11)

No kids that I know of.

Miguel (27:12)

Okay.

Ego Wodem (27:13)

Isn't it crazy that women don't get to say that Women don't ever get to say, like, no kids that I know of. Men get to say, no kids that I know of, but no kids that I know of.

Miguel (27:21)

Yes. Okay. All right.

Ego Wodem (27:22)

Noted, noted. Nothing has come up out of.

Miguel (27:25)

Nobody's popped up out of, like, like.

Ego Wodem (27:27)

No, you're my mother.

Miguel (27:28)

You owe me. You owe me.

Ego Wodem (27:29)

You owe me. And that's why I'm doing the collection bucket over there.

Miguel (27:32)

Just in case. Insurance is important.

Ego Wodem (27:34)

Just in case some, some child comes out of the woodwork talking about, you're my mom.

Miguel (27:38)

I understand now.

Ego Wodem (27:39)

And that would be. But no, I, I, I have no kids.

Miguel (27:42)

And so first, more is just to contribute.

Ego Wodem (27:44)

Please. Thank you. Say something now.

Miguel (27:46)

Yes. Yeah.

Ego Wodem (27:46)

Ah, yeah. Oh, that was a couple. All right. Thank you. But did you always, you wanted to be a parent?

Miguel (27:52)

I, I always wanted to be a father.

Ego Wodem (27:53)

Okay.

Miguel (27:54)

I knew I wanted to be a father. I had a really dope dad. Have an amazing dad, and he just was. Yeah, I just always wanted to be a dad.

Ego Wodem (28:05)

Yeah. What made your dad so dope?

Miguel (28:08)

I think his sense of humor. And also he was always really supportive. Anything, anything. He always said, I could do anything. We could do anything. And he was, he was encouraging and kind of like, would push, but just enough.

Ego Wodem (28:27)

All right.

Miguel (28:28)

You know, he knew how to really, like, he was kind of like, hold you to your, to your, what you want to do. You say you want to do it. All right, well, you're going to have to do this. And he would push, but never too much.

Anastasia (28:40)

Right.

Miguel (28:41)

You know, just enough where. And he was very understanding. And how are you going to make me.

Ego Wodem (28:47)

It's okay. It's beautiful, though. That's. That is so rare because I wanted to tell you that it's so rare that I get to hear anyone, even in conversation with friends, be like, my dad is, was amazing. I think that's so, it's contrary to this. Yeah. And I'm genuinely having a moment where I'm like, I need to hear more about this amazing individual because my parents are great. Yeah.

Miguel (29:09)

I got lucky.

Ego Wodem (29:09)

Very lucky. Do you have siblings?

Miguel (29:12)

I do. He's My best friend. His name is Nick Nonchalant Savant.

Ego Wodem (29:15)

Okay. Nonchalant Savant. Is that his Instagram handle?

Miguel (29:18)

Yeah, it is, actually, but we just call him nonchalant. Cause he's.

Ego Wodem (29:20)

That's really his vibe.

Miguel (29:22)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (29:22)

Nonchalant. Your parents did not. A nonchalant kid and a musical genius. I'm like, what? They did do a great job. Wait, can you tell me a little bit more about them and their background? Your parents?

Miguel (29:33)

My parents, they met in high school. They met at Inglewood High. A lot of my family on my dad's side still is in Inglewood.

Anastasia (29:41)

Okay.

Miguel (29:43)

But, yeah, they met in Inglewood High. My mom is a beautiful black woman from la. My dad's family is from Samora, Michoacan. He came here when he was three. And before he came, my nana. My grandmother, rest in peace, came three years ahead of that. I'm sorry, two years ahead of that. And kind of, like, lived with her sister, worked at the hospital, and did other odd jobs to basically make enough money to start bringing our family over. And I think it was over the course of a few years that everyone from my dad's family, because it's eight of them total, were in the States.

Ego Wodem (30:21)

Okay.

Miguel (30:21)

And they made a life in Inglewood.

Ego Wodem (30:23)

Okay.

Miguel (30:24)

And my parents met in high school, but they weren't really seeing each other until after high school.

Anastasia (30:30)

And.

Miguel (30:30)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (30:31)

That's a real life meeting, by the way. Rare also these days.

Miguel (30:35)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (30:35)

Like, we're high school sweethearts kind of even.

Miguel (30:38)

No, it was like they just knew each other. Knew of each other, maybe flirtatious, but never really hung until afterwards.

Ego Wodem (30:44)

Okay.

Miguel (30:44)

That's my. That's what I get.

Ego Wodem (30:46)

That's what you understand. Do you know, like, the. Do you know the nitty gritty details of that? Like, them getting together, like, how it even came to be?

Miguel (30:52)

No, I don't. But I know I was conceived sometime around Valentine's Day because I'm a Scorpio.

Ego Wodem (30:59)

You know what I'm saying? You did the math.

Miguel (31:00)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (31:01)

Good at math.

Miguel (31:01)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (31:02)

We've all done the math.

Miguel (31:03)

We've done the math. Oh, yeah.

Ego Wodem (31:06)

Oh, January. Okay.

Miguel (31:08)

Exactly.

Ego Wodem (31:09)

June. My case. Yeah, it was June. Summer. Summer's a good time to see.

Miguel (31:14)

It's a great time.

Ego Wodem (31:16)

Listen, but your dad, you say, is an amazing dad.

Miguel (31:20)

Pops is incredible.

Ego Wodem (31:21)

Where do you think he got the tools to become such an amazing father? Did he have an amazing father?

Miguel (31:26)

I mean, my dad had a very. He had a challenging time with his father. My tata was a very stern, no games, kind of. Kind of Man. Also, two generations ago, it was a very different.

Ego Wodem (31:41)

Right.

Miguel (31:41)

Culturally, every culture, I think, has evolved and, you know, just. Yeah, just with the times.

Ego Wodem (31:46)

Right.

Miguel (31:47)

And my tattoo was a very. Yeah. Stern man. You did it his way and that was it. So my dad had a rough time because he's also, you know, he's. I'm like him in this way. We like our freedom and can be hard headed at times. So my dad butted heads with my grandfather a lot and I think there was a lot of contention there. And I would attribute his approach with us to the things that he wanted to get with his dad, you know. So that's.

Ego Wodem (32:22)

Yeah, incredible because you either sort of become that person who raised you, whether you enjoyed it or not, or want that to be the case or not, or you, I think, do a lot of work to be like, I'm going to. To be so unlike that if I can help it. And it's remarkable that he was able to do that and that you love him so much. That warms my heart.

Miguel (32:44)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (32:45)

He's a shit.

Miguel (32:46)

My Dad's a shit. Mr. P. He's a teacher.

Ego Wodem (32:48)

Mr. P. Okay. He is. What kind of grade, what subject he.

Miguel (32:52)

Taught all through all grade school and in his tenure, he's kind of wanted to be more impact. He's basically like, I would rather, you know, be able to like make an impact earlier or early. So he's like second grade. He's like been having fun in the second grade and this is his last year, so he'll retire this year.

Ego Wodem (33:13)

Are you guys gonna throw a party for him?

Miguel (33:15)

Yeah. Hell yeah.

Ego Wodem (33:16)

Okay.

Miguel (33:17)

He'll throw a party for himself.

Ego Wodem (33:19)

He's a good time. Mr. P. I wish Mr. P had been my second grade teacher.

Miguel (33:22)

Man. There's so many kids that I've. That I've ran into after shows and be like, your dad's my favorite teacher, Mr. P. Oh, yeah. Yes.

Ego Wodem (33:31)

That's gotta feel really good.

Miguel (33:32)

Yeah, it's cool.

Ego Wodem (33:33)

Okay. And what's your approach now with your son in terms of parenting? Do you plan to emulate your dad? Are there things that you feel like you didn't get that you wish, though your dad was amazing, you could have.

Miguel (33:45)

Gotten more of, man. My approach, I really don't know. I think he's at an age now where I'm learning, I'm learning him. And overall, I would say my approach is, is to remain a student and remind myself that I get to nurture that. It's a, that I'm, you know, it's a nurturing you know, and that it's like, I want to give him the best that I can, but without acting like I have all the answers.

Ego Wodem (34:19)

Yeah.

Miguel (34:20)

You know?

Ego Wodem (34:20)

Yeah.

Miguel (34:21)

So so far, that's the plan. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Because he's. He's already started saying no.

Ego Wodem (34:28)

You're like, hold on.

Miguel (34:29)

I'm like, what?

Ego Wodem (34:29)

You say not. You have an opinion. It's not supposed to be like that.

Miguel (34:32)

Oh, it is crazy when you're like, what? You mean no? And right now it's no with kind of a question mark. He's like, no. Like, do I. Do I say no here or no here? So he says no for everything now.

Ego Wodem (34:42)

Uhhuh. Okay. He's learning boundaries quick. He's like, I'm gonna practice saying no. People get bad at saying no as we get older. Right.

Miguel (34:50)

Isn't that crazy, though?

Ego Wodem (34:51)

It's really, really wild. And I think about therapy and how so many people in therapy and myself included, what you're learning in therapy is how to be yourself again and to assert your own boundaries and live in a way that is aligned for you. And that's what, like, so much money spent in therapy, being reminded how to.

Miguel (35:12)

Be yourself just to get back to square one.

Ego Wodem (35:15)

Yeah.

Miguel (35:16)

And that's the. I think that question. You're like, yeah, like, don't want to be the kind of parent. Well, I would. I would. See, this is what you learn in therapy.

Ego Wodem (35:24)

Okay, okay, let's hear.

Miguel (35:25)

We don't talk about what we don't want to be.

Ego Wodem (35:27)

Right.

Miguel (35:28)

So what we do want to be.

Ego Wodem (35:29)

Okay. We're gonna focus on what we do wanna be.

Anastasia (35:31)

All right.

Ego Wodem (35:32)

Okay.

Miguel (35:32)

Yeah. Want to be the kind of parent that reaffirms and re. Like, what is that? Like. Like, bolsters whatever the natural. Like, his natural fosters, like, his fosters, reassures, and also enforces outwardly on his behalf, his own personality and his. Like, I wanna protect. Protect whatever. The thing is, like, just. Just be that. You know, I do think that, like, a lot of it is. Is sort of trying to, like, conform a child. To work in society.

Ego Wodem (36:12)

Yeah.

Miguel (36:12)

Like, to fit and like, yes. There's an educational part of that, but also, like, want to. Want to preserve. Like, preserve it.

Ego Wodem (36:21)

That's the word in my mind. Exactly. So when I have a kid, because again, none out there, to my knowledge, not yet.

Miguel (36:27)

We don't know.

Ego Wodem (36:27)

Unless somebody rolls. Was like, mom, which would be. I mean, by the time if they were to roll up on me and be like, mom, I'd be Like, well, at least I didn't have to do, like, staying up late.

Miguel (36:36)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (36:36)

Part I will take you on. I'm not going to ask any questions how this worked without me being aware, but my hope is that I also would foster in my child the. Or just encourage them to be themselves. And basically, like, what you're saying to that is a matter of. Of, like, parenting is shepherding this young person into who they already kind of are.

Miguel (37:03)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (37:04)

And affirming who they are. Yeah. And then offering some guardrails, which, by the way, sounds really lovely in a vacuum. Until you're like, it's real life and it's a Thursday and you're stressed out and you're tired and you've had a. And you've had a long day, or, you know, like, I can. Everything sounds really lovely in a vacuum. And then you're like, in real life, and you're like, I just need this person to do what I say, and I need them to not ask me why. Because I was a. Why kid.

Miguel (37:28)

Yeah. Why.

Ego Wodem (37:29)

I was like, why? I need to. I'll do that thing you asked me to do, but I just need to understand why.

Miguel (37:33)

How did that. How did that work in. In a Nigerian household?

Ego Wodem (37:37)

You know, I think because I was raised by a single mom. I told. I think I've said this before on the podcast, but I didn't get spanked, really, as a kid. And someone was like, I can tell. And it wasn't a compliment.

Miguel (37:50)

It wasn't a compliment. Yeah. No wonder.

Ego Wodem (37:53)

Yeah. And that'll make sense. But my mom.

Miguel (37:56)

I still haven't decided if spanking is or is not what I'm going to do.

Ego Wodem (38:01)

Okay. This. I am curious about this.

Miguel (38:03)

I thought I would be for sure a spanking parent.

Ego Wodem (38:06)

You thought that up until when?

Miguel (38:09)

As long as it. I thought.

Ego Wodem (38:10)

But when did you. Like, when did you stop? When did you start to be unclear as to whether you would be a spanking parent or not?

Miguel (38:16)

I think having him.

Ego Wodem (38:17)

The minute he was in your hands.

Miguel (38:18)

At the hospital, even now, I think it's. I'm, like, considering everything, and I'm like, is this the time? Cause he's also like, it's not now, but I can see where he's going. Cause he's already a little shit. Like, he's like, a little missed enough. He'll be like, no, no, no. He'll go to touch something that he shouldn't, and he'll be like, no, no, no. And he'll look back and he'll go, no, no, no. And then he'll like. He'll. He'll like, touch. But if I do it, he'll grab something and then he'll. It won't be him touching it. He'll use the thing to touch it.

Ego Wodem (38:57)

Oh, he said, I didn't touch it. I didn't touch it. Oh, he's smart. No, he's smart.

Miguel (39:01)

He's 13 months and he's already, like, speaking. And I'm like, he's. Yeah, it's. It's crazy. So I'm anticipating that there's gonna be a moment where it will be a Thursday. I will have had a long ass day. And it's gonna be. He'll be testing, you know, and in that moment, I'm like, am I gonna.

Ego Wodem (39:20)

Ooh.

Miguel (39:20)

The one thing I'll say though, Yeah, I also. And this is another shout out to my mom. She never spanked us angry. Like, when she was mad, she would wait.

Ego Wodem (39:30)

Oh, okay.

Miguel (39:31)

Which is kind of like this. Even worse. Cuz then you think you got off. You're like, ah, okay, you forgot about.

Ego Wodem (39:35)

She forgot about it. She's in a good mood now.

Miguel (39:37)

She'll wait.

Ego Wodem (39:38)

I owe you a spanking.

Miguel (39:41)

Four, five days go by.

Ego Wodem (39:43)

Not days.

Miguel (39:44)

Days, Miguel, in some cases is a week or two.

Ego Wodem (39:47)

No, see, that's. That is worse. It's not. Not 14 days later, you, mama comes up to you like, so.

Miguel (39:55)

So remember two weeks ago? Uhhuh. We need to talk. Come meet me. And you walk into the room and she got the belt and she does the. Oh, oh.

Ego Wodem (40:06)

But then she's saying, we need to talk. But then it was like, it's not a conversation.

Miguel (40:09)

Oh, no, she. It would be a conversation.

Ego Wodem (40:11)

She enduring. Can you explain? Paint the whole picture. The. The belt goes. Yes, that's a gun.

Miguel (40:17)

Well, well, first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but. But yeah, essentially, that's what. It's the same kind of. It strikes the same kind of fear.

Ego Wodem (40:25)

Okay.

Miguel (40:26)

It really does.

Ego Wodem (40:26)

So she would say that you're like the belt. The belt would speak.

Miguel (40:30)

Then she would say, well, okay, if it was one of those times where it was a wait till and it took some time.

Ego Wodem (40:36)

Please. Yes.

Miguel (40:36)

It wouldn't be the belt first.

Ego Wodem (40:37)

Okay.

Miguel (40:38)

It would be. We need to talk. Sit down. Okay. I told you this and this and that. What. What happened? And walk me through. She want to understand. And then she would walk through. I mean, if it. If it needed some, like, principles, she would pull a bible out.

Ego Wodem (40:55)

Come on, mom.

Miguel (40:55)

And she would. She would go by now, you know, Yeah. A, B and c And the scripture says this and that. My mom was. You know, she was. She was not playing when it came to principle and where it was coming from. And she was very pragmatic about it.

Ego Wodem (41:07)

Okay.

Miguel (41:08)

And then she would remind us that we would be disciplined without anger. So she, like, you know, at the time, it really upset me. It really hurt my feelings. This is this and that. And she would be like, so, you know what you did was wrong. Yes. Why was it wrong? Because. And she would make you walk through the whole thing.

Ego Wodem (41:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Miguel (41:29)

Then the belt would come out.

Ego Wodem (41:30)

Oh. After. To let the lesson make the lesson stick.

Miguel (41:33)

Now lay your ass down. She wouldn't say ass.

Ego Wodem (41:35)

Okay. Cause she didn't cuss. Put that in the bucket.

Miguel (41:37)

Yes, exactly. I'm making.

Ego Wodem (41:39)

I am making money today.

Miguel (41:41)

Okay.

Ego Wodem (41:42)

Okay. So she would say, lay your ass down.

Miguel (41:44)

Sit down.

Ego Wodem (41:45)

Sit down. Okay.

Miguel (41:46)

You know, lay down. Whatever.

Ego Wodem (41:47)

Sit down.

Miguel (41:48)

How old are you?

Ego Wodem (41:49)

Huh? And by your age, that's how many. Ooh, I want to be 5 so bad at best. I don't want to be older than five.

Miguel (41:57)

Oh, my goodness.

Ego Wodem (41:58)

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Were you ever 17?

Miguel (42:01)

No. Because by the time I got to, like, 13, I would. I just stopped reacting. It was. It was. I. I think it was 13 when she was like, okay, you're not gonna cry. It's not gonna be, like, a thing. And I would just. And you just clench it. You just take it and it hurt. But, you know, you're, like, trying to be.

Ego Wodem (42:22)

That's. And then she was like, okay, well, then I'm gonna stop doing this, because it's not right now. This is not having the same impact that used to have.

Miguel (42:29)

Yeah. Then it transitions to taking things away that you really want to do and, you know, people you want to see and all that kind of stuff. But.

Ego Wodem (42:35)

Yeah, was. I mean, what. And I feel like you turned out. I actually have to say, it seemed to. I feel like it worked for you.

Miguel (42:41)

Feel like it was the dilemma.

Ego Wodem (42:42)

Yeah.

Miguel (42:42)

Because now I'm like, well, I can see where this is going. And this is going to. There's going to be times where it actually might be justifiable. The one thing I will say is that if I do decide, which I would. I would say I probably will.

Ego Wodem (42:58)

Yeah.

Miguel (42:59)

I know that there's going to be some times where it's like, he's not going to understand anything else. But. But to have a. And this is me speaking before I get there, but I do believe that it's important. Done correctly.

Ego Wodem (43:13)

Right. Okay.

Miguel (43:14)

I can think back to times When I would have just kept doing what.

Ego Wodem (43:18)

You wanted to do or whatever. Yeah.

Miguel (43:19)

Oh, yeah.

Ego Wodem (43:20)

Yeah.

Miguel (43:21)

That's kind of who I am.

Ego Wodem (43:22)

Yeah. You know the way you described your parents, so incredibly principled. Mom's pulling out the Bible to be like, this. Says this in the Bible.

Miguel (43:30)

Oh, yeah.

Ego Wodem (43:31)

But then also, you like drugs. So how's that? Right to camera, he said, yeah, what can he say?

Miguel (43:39)

He likes drugs. And now I'm thinking about this because my son will probably come watch this.

Ego Wodem (43:43)

He will, but he'll probably be, like, 15. Yeah. Because he's probably not. I feel like your son's not going to take much interest in. Well, it could go either way.

Miguel (43:51)

It could go either way.

Ego Wodem (43:52)

Yeah. He takes a ton of interest in what you do and who dad is. Because I think dad is so cool. Or he's like, I want to forge my own path, and I don't even want to be influenced by that. And he watches random at 15 because someone else is offering him drugs.

Miguel (44:04)

Or like, did you see your dad? Your dad.

Ego Wodem (44:06)

Yeah.

Miguel (44:06)

Your dad said he likes drugs. Whatever.

Ego Wodem (44:08)

Yeah.

Miguel (44:08)

The one thing I will say is that I didn't do drugs until I was. I was an adult.

Ego Wodem (44:12)

Okay.

Miguel (44:12)

And even my dad. This is the cool shit about my dad. My dad was like, now, son, if you ever do decide to do drugs, do them with me. He was like, because then you'll be safe.

Ego Wodem (44:23)

Right.

Miguel (44:24)

And I can make sure you're okay. I'll tell you everything you want to know about what it may make you feel and how it may make you feel.

Ego Wodem (44:29)

Yeah.

Miguel (44:29)

But at least I'll be able to see if anything goes wrong. I'll see you through.

Ego Wodem (44:33)

Right.

Miguel (44:34)

You know, and I got you. You can trust her in safe hands. Yeah, of course I didn't do it, but.

Ego Wodem (44:39)

So you didn't do them with him?

Miguel (44:40)

No.

Ego Wodem (44:41)

Have you done them with him at all?

Miguel (44:42)

Hell, yeah.

Ego Wodem (44:43)

Okay, now you have.

Miguel (44:45)

And honestly, I would say it's so much more fun to do anything like your drugs, drinking, whatever, with family as.

Ego Wodem (44:52)

Far as parenting is concerned. Again, there are so many things that sound good and idealistic in a vacuum and in, like, your perfect world and scenario. And then it's like, okay, real life hits and we're describing that Thursday. Or your son comes to you at an age you may not have expected, asking you to do X, Y, or Z. And it's like, how do you actually handle that? I have a lot of grace for parents who have maybe not handled some of these moments well, because you have to have the tools to be able to be a good parent. How you get your tools varies. Very varies.

Miguel (45:25)

But I'm like, some you're given and some you earn.

Ego Wodem (45:27)

Yeah.

Miguel (45:28)

You know. Or you don't. Yeah, right.

Ego Wodem (45:29)

Or you don't. And everyone is kind of freestyling as far as parenting is concerned.

Miguel (45:34)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (45:35)

And most people trying their best, I would say. I don't know if everyone is. But are trying their best.

Miguel (45:41)

Yeah, I would say.

Ego Wodem (45:41)

Yeah. And I'm. I just.

Miguel (45:43)

I'd like to imagine that most parents are trying their best.

Ego Wodem (45:45)

I like that world too. Yeah, I would like that.

Miguel (45:48)

But I actually heard something more recently that was. That's like, sometimes it's not that the people that love us are trying their. They're not doing their best. They're doing what they can, which is this. It's like a very small distinction, but it is different. And sometimes we don't know that we can do better.

Ego Wodem (46:07)

That's real. Yeah.

Miguel (46:08)

You know, it's like sometimes it takes seeing it or it being. Yeah, it takes seeing it or experiencing it or being called out or, I don't know, making a mistake to see it. To know that you're like, oh, no, I could have done it. You know, or it could have been done better.

Ego Wodem (46:22)

Right.

Miguel (46:24)

Cause we all learn differently. But I didn't mean to. It's just a thought. It's just a thought.

Ego Wodem (46:29)

What would, as a child, for you, be most effective in making you self reflect or change your behavior? Having your parents say, I'm disappointed in you or I'm really mad at you.

Miguel (46:40)

Oh, disappoint.

Ego Wodem (46:41)

Okay.

Miguel (46:42)

Oh, when your parents. I'm so disappointed.

Ego Wodem (46:45)

Yeah. What is it about that, though? Cause I've heard that answer before. But I'm like, what is it about you're disappointed in me that is so effective and impactful?

Miguel (46:55)

Because it insinuates that they thought differently of you and that maybe they now see you differently. Right.

Ego Wodem (47:02)

It does kind of.

Miguel (47:03)

It's kind of like, man, I thought you were better than that. It feels like that you're like, oh, oh, okay, okay.

Ego Wodem (47:11)

I haven't ever gotten that clarity from someone. That's. Yeah, I could see that. Because I imagine, I feel like the number of times I've heard people send texts to people they're dating be like, I thought you were a different person than that. And how that's like, you'll get a paragraph.

Miguel (47:28)

Oh, man.

Ego Wodem (47:28)

And that part of the paragraph being the one thing that really like, that hits. That hits is like, you're not who I thought you were.

Miguel (47:34)

Oh.

Ego Wodem (47:37)

I thought you Were good.

Miguel (47:38)

See, but. But see, when you're like, I'm not the person you thought I was, I'm.

Ego Wodem (47:42)

Trying to tell you, then it becomes. And it's like you wanted me to be something I'm not. And that is a very different conversation.

Miguel (47:50)

Yes.

Ego Wodem (47:50)

Oh, yeah.

Miguel (47:51)

That's a different one.

Ego Wodem (47:51)

That's a different kind of conversation.

Miguel (47:53)

Hopefully you don't get to that point with anyone. You don't, you don't.

Ego Wodem (47:55)

You shouldn't. Let's know. Hopefully there's no conflict, unhealthy conflict in any of your relationships. That's what I'd like to hope for, for everyone. Because this is an idealistic podcast. We're just saying our wish, society and ourselves. That's all we're doing here today. Do you have a favorite track on the album?

Miguel (48:14)

Favorite track on the album? I think the soul of the album. You can hear it in El Plato. Yeah, that's the. I think that is the song that holds the album together. And that's a song about. It's like a self reflection also kind of train of thought kind of song that goes from like an introspective, like, wow, let me think of all the things I had to sacrifice to get here. And yet I'm so proud of who I am and what I am. All of that wrapped into one. You know, it's kind of like, wow. Like it's a. It's a. It's a looking back, it's a looking at now. It's a looking forward in that it, I think, resolves in a. I've been through a lot, but I'm. My soul is still standing.

Ego Wodem (49:05)

Yeah. That's beautiful.

Miguel (49:06)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (49:07)

Do you. I. I've been. I was listening to the album today and hearing how much Spanish is spoken on the album is really, really cool. Because again, the first track where I heard you speaking a foreign language, it was Portuguese. Yeah.

Miguel (49:20)

You're like, oh, she about to get on his Portuguese.

Ego Wodem (49:23)

He's from Portugal, He's Brazilian. I don't know. It's so cool to hear you speaking Spanish in that way. Was that something you were. You were wanting to do on this album or, you know, how did the album come together in that regard? Is it like these are tracks where I feel inclined to be speaking Spanish or I want to make sure I'm speaking Spanish in this. On this album? How did. How did that come together for you?

Miguel (49:43)

That's a great. I mean, the. What happens. What happened for me was in these last eight years, a lot of like, trying to figure out Figure out if I wanted to do this anymore, like, on a professional level or if I was.

Ego Wodem (49:57)

I got that sense as a fan. I said, where's Miguel? I needed you over the last few years. I needed you, but I needed you. You needed yourself, too, though, so.

Miguel (50:08)

But I needed to. I. It's not that I stopped creating. It's that. It's everything else that comes with creating and releasing music professionally. It just. It becomes. It takes another. Its own life and its own meaning, and it invites critique in ways that I wasn't sure that I cared to be open to or to hear. Like, you know, I just really wasn't sure that I had the energy or the motivation, and I needed to kind of go back and figure that out for myself. And what I found. When I found a new motivation, what it did was it pushed me to get to know myself deeper. And I think that lent itself to a new. A reframing of my identity that made speaking Spanish really natural, and it made it, like, with so much pride, you know? And not that it wasn't there before. It was that it didn't feel like it needed to be included in the music. It was like, I can be proud of who I am without it having to be a part of my. And it wasn't, like, such a massive part of my creativity or my point of view that it felt like it needed to be inserted in the work. But I think because where I want to go has so much to do with my audience really getting to know me as a human being and not just my abilities, it felt really natural to include and to. Just to speak in Spanish and to show how I think in Spanish.

Ego Wodem (51:49)

Yeah.

Miguel (51:50)

So that's where it kind of comes from.

Ego Wodem (51:53)

It feels like listening to the album feels like, oh, you're getting to know Miguel in a different way or more. So. I feel as a listener, just having listened at this point, just one time, I'm like, oh, I feel closer. I feel like as a person who was such an early fan and I didn't know who this artist was, but I was like, this person's so talented. And then so many people came to know and love you and the music you put. I mean, I still revisit. Do you how many drinks I'm constantly listening to? Yeah. And it feels cool to be like, oh, and this is another part of him we have yet to get to experience as fans of your music. And you said you had to figure out what the motivation was for you to release new music over the last eight years. What was that motivation was it for us to get to know you or. Or what would you say it was?

Miguel (52:45)

It was to get to know my audience and then to get to know me more personally.

Ego Wodem (52:49)

Okay.

Miguel (52:49)

So that I could build an audience that wanted to know where I was going and how I was growing or what was hurting or what was worth celebrating, as opposed to me trying to satisfy an audience that just wanted this. Wanted the song for them.

Ego Wodem (53:14)

Yeah.

Miguel (53:15)

Wanted the song that made. It's.

Ego Wodem (53:16)

It's.

Miguel (53:17)

I don't know if I'm saying that in the most concise way, but I want. I wanted my own audience, you know? And I think when you approach. What I was doing before was leaning on my ability. And I think people fell in love with my songs, you know?

Ego Wodem (53:35)

Yeah, okay.

Miguel (53:36)

They fell in love with the songs, but it wasn't that. They, like, really were, like, into me. And that, for me, is not sustainable. Yeah, it's not. Because then what happens is, like, what happens when the song doesn't. They don't like the songs, right?

Ego Wodem (53:51)

Yeah.

Miguel (53:51)

When they don't like the songs, that means that for me, it was. It was like, it's a slippery slope. The song. If they don't love the song, the song isn't successful. So then I'm not. I don't have no purpose with. No. With my. With the. With the audience.

Ego Wodem (54:07)

With that particular audience who's here for, like, I'm here for the music this person produces without any consideration for the actual artist. It's like, I like the song. I like the production on this song. But, you know, even hearing that from you, knowing that some songs are. You'll hear stories about like, this song was written or this beat was produced for this artist and this song. These lyrics were handed to them, and it's like, this was for Rihanna, but so and so ended up doing it instead.

Miguel (54:35)

Right.

Ego Wodem (54:36)

Those are just. That's so. It's so interesting how that can work. It's like this song was given to this person, and somehow the song was for the person. But it's like, do we love the person or do we love the song, or did the person make the song? It's sometimes hard to discern as a listener and when you hear those stories.

Miguel (54:53)

So there are successful recording artists, artists, whatever you want to call them, who are able to do that, and they do it. There's an art in that as well. There is an art in being able to take a song and make it yours. Yeah, I am not good at that. I can't do that. It's Not a part of my ability. And it's also not. I just don't. That's not what. I wanted to do this when I was my son's age and just loved music. And all through my, you know, growing up, my adolescence, like, the whole. The thing was, like, I'm making songs and music that I want to make. The things that I'm hearing in my mind, I'm making them. And, like, people love them, you know, and they become theirs.

Ego Wodem (55:40)

Yeah.

Miguel (55:41)

And I got to do that. And what I found out was without. When it's just the song you are kind of.

Ego Wodem (55:51)

Of.

Miguel (55:52)

It can be anyone. There's sort of another part of that is like, I'm a songwriter.

Ego Wodem (55:57)

Yeah.

Miguel (55:57)

So I can't really blame myself for approaching that way. Because in the goal of a songwriter, you want a song that could work in any genre. A great song is a great song, whether it sounds like it's a R and B song or it's a punk song or if it's great songs. It's like us finding ourselves in lyrics and the details. Finding ourselves in other people's details. That's a. That's what makes a great song.

Ego Wodem (56:22)

Yeah.

Miguel (56:23)

And great art. So I did that. And if I just wanted to be a songwriter, that'd be enough, but I don't. I want to live my life. Being an artist.

Ego Wodem (56:37)

Yeah.

Miguel (56:37)

Being an artist, I think, is about reflecting your experience and taking the emotion in that experience and giving it to people so that we can forget our differences and remember the human experience is an emotional one and that we're not so different. That's why great songs in different languages can touch people around the world from different, you know, religious beliefs and ethnic backgrounds and so on and so forth. Same way fine art can make you stop and stare and just look at it and create wonder in your mind or. Or pain in a way that makes you forget the differences you have with the artist.

Ego Wodem (57:15)

Yeah.

Miguel (57:17)

I wanted to do that. That's what I did. I'm here for. You know, and it's sort of at the center of the course that we designed. We were invited to NYU to be a scholar in Residence this year. It was a tremendous, tremendous honor. Yeah. Tremendous honor. We did our introductory. The introduction to the course yesterday, and it was.

Ego Wodem (57:37)

Was.

Miguel (57:38)

It was one of those things that made me really proud to say, like, I had to discover this the hard way for myself. But to build your own audience that really is in love with your expression and is there for your expression, regardless of what that means and how it proliferates. And what it becomes is the core of ownership and control of your work and your career.

Ego Wodem (58:03)

Yeah.

Miguel (58:04)

Building that audience. So I had to go away to. To recalibrate on that.

Ego Wodem (58:10)

Yeah. You know, I'm so glad you did because the album is absolutely beautiful. And it feels so personal having listened just the one time and I'm like, it feels so personal. I feel the heart in it. And I love how true to your artistry you remain.

Miguel (58:23)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (58:23)

And now it's time for this segment called that's Nice, but what about Me?

Miguel (58:27)

All right, let's go.

Ego Wodem (58:28)

I like that where I ask you for advice. Cuz I need advice.

Miguel (58:32)

So I'm gonna try my best.

Ego Wodem (58:34)

But that's parenting. You're parenting me in this moment. Okay.

Miguel (58:37)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (58:38)

So I am workshopping a one woman show right now and I'm trying to figure out. Yes, yes, let's go. And so I am trying to figure out. And I had a one woman show called Great Black Women. And then there's me that was in 2017 into 18, before I had was on SNL. So now I'm workshopping this other one woman show and I'm trying to figure out exactly how to navigate the creative process now, given this whole new experience I had. Knowing that there's an audience out there that wants something specific from me. I think you can relate.

Miguel (59:13)

I can relate.

Ego Wodem (59:14)

And knowing that there's an audience out there that is expecting something they've seen me doing for now several years, how do I bridge the gap between what that expectation is and doing and completely figuring out what I want? Like, so you had eight years to kind of figure that out. I have a little less time talking a couple weeks.

Miguel (59:36)

Please take less time.

Ego Wodem (59:37)

Don't take a year, please. So that's the first piece of sake, please. Okay. Well, thank you. Appreciate you. What would you advise I do in the weeks I have to sort of bridge that gap and figure out what feels right and true for me.

Miguel (59:51)

If I could do it all over again, I would give my audience as much context as I possibly could on where I'm going, going.

Ego Wodem (59:57)

Okay.

Miguel (59:57)

While I continue to be present for them. See, the big thing that I didn't do that I wish I would have continued to do was to stay present with my audience. I would have, in retrospect, I would have kept in much closer communication, whether it's on social media or if it was that I started building out ways to own my audience. Whether it's like through your CRM, like direct email, whatever, or direct. Or if it's through your whatever, social media, whatever. Finding your direct link to your fans one while educating them on where you're going. I would have done that. I would have started that eight years ago because come now, they would have had so much context of all the inspiration and also an appreciation of being included. So now retroactively what I'm doing is trying to educate people on, well, this album. There's a lot of anger in this album and it's not about romance and love. It's about loss and growth and change. Eight years of prep would have done so much in terms of people paying attention. So if I could do it again, I would build out ways to own my audience and stay in direct communication and educate them in the process. However you felt felt comfortable, but specifically in the ways that they probably are not expecting and just giving them insight on like, yo, I'm really feeling this and I know you like this, but like, have you seen this? Like, this is some of my favorite shit from this. And even the dialogue for them I think is exciting. To introduce things that they're not expecting and then watch them talk about it is one is some of the coolest shit.

Ego Wodem (61:35)

Yeah.

Miguel (61:35)

Cause you can interject and then and also just observe when you want, as you can want, but it's the fact that you're letting them in on the process that I think makes the result even more impactful.

Ego Wodem (61:46)

Thank you. I needed to hear that advice. Thank you for that. And because this is a family oriented show. No, it's not. But we have someone else who wants advice, a listener. This is the last little bit. Kevin, we are ready for you.

Miguel (61:59)

Kevin.

Ego Wodem (62:00)

Kevin, my producer.

Miguel (62:01)

Let's go.

Anastasia (62:02)

Hey, Ego, this is anastasia.

Ego Wodem (62:03)

Anastasia and McGinn.

Anastasia (62:04)

I would love to get your advice on a work situation. I'm currently at a point in my career where I've put in the work. I've reached a certain level that I as I to and now I'm at a workplace where I am not valued for what I bring to the table. My experience, my knowledge and I feel a bit stuck also. I'm in an industry that I don't have love for anymore. So would love to get your thoughts on pivoting or what to do at this stage.

Ego Wodem (62:41)

Thank you, Anastasia.

Miguel (62:43)

Thank you, Anastasia. Yeah, that's a big one, important one, big one.

Ego Wodem (62:47)

I'm gonna. You have had such sage wisdom. So I want, if you don't mind, would you start?

Miguel (62:52)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe even finish first and foremost.

Ego Wodem (62:55)

Yeah.

Miguel (62:56)

Walk up to your boss, but your boss and punch him in the Face. I'm just playing. Don't do that. Don't do that. Call him a bitch or her a bitch. I don't know. If nothing else, you'll feel good about it. You'll be like, ah, I've been trying to get that off my chest.

Ego Wodem (63:10)

And you might feel fine after that. Yeah. You'd be like, actually, I do love this industry.

Miguel (63:13)

I love this place. Yeah, this is great. All right. A pivot, I think, is, like. Is exciting. And I think there's a lot to be said about anyone who is considering a pivot, and I think there's nothing more powerful than a pivot when necessary. But. But keep in mind that after the excitement of the pivot and the opportunity, you're going to be met with challenges. Do not pivot thinking that it's gonna be any easier. Yes, it's actually gonna probably be harder because you're gonna be coming into something that most likely you have interest, hopefully you have real love for, but you're not as far along in. And you're gonna need to. You're gonna need to really get in the fucking trenches if you have the drive, the delusion and the energy to really do that. I say fucking pivot.

Ego Wodem (64:10)

I think that's real.

Miguel (64:11)

But if you are not sure, I would say really consider looking at what you love and how you wanna feel and find out if you can't get that from where you are.

Ego Wodem (64:26)

Are.

Miguel (64:26)

If you absolutely cannot get that from where you are, then really look at. Do you have the energy? Do you have the real delusion? Do you have the. You know what I mean? Do you have that to make the pivot and. And go from there?

Ego Wodem (64:40)

Yeah.

Miguel (64:40)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (64:41)

And then the resources. And I forget sometimes, because I'm such a dreamer, that the resources one might need, like just actual the money, the space, make sure everything, to actually be able to pivot.

Miguel (64:52)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (64:52)

Making sure you have that in place. But I do believe to your point about really doing an assessment of where you are and how you want to feel. And is that possible where you currently are? Because I do strongly believe that no matter where you go, there you are. I didn't make that quote up. Someone else said it, but I fucking love it. No matter where you go, there you are. And I think you have to make peace with where you are right now before you pivot is how I feel, because if you're running from something, you're going to find that something at the next thing. So I think it's really important, and I don't like leaving anywhere Anger. Angry and being like, I hate this place and I want to blow it up. If you can find a way to have gratitude for where you are in that experience as well, I think that's really important. So that when you do pivot, we're going in clean slate. The vibes are right. You're right internally. But I think focusing on how you want to feel and then figuring out what those things are that make you feel that way is a good way to approach this.

Miguel (65:47)

Validated.

Ego Wodem (65:48)

Yeah.

Miguel (65:48)

Such a key to actually, like, not leave with the energy. Being off. I feel like that.

Ego Wodem (65:53)

Yeah.

Miguel (65:54)

I didn't even. But it's major to leave something with a really good. Like just in a good place.

Ego Wodem (66:01)

Yeah. I understand what this was for.

Miguel (66:04)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (66:05)

You don't even have to be happy. You don't even have to be so happy about it if you're not happy. But just, like, understanding.

Miguel (66:10)

Right.

Ego Wodem (66:11)

Some grace in your exit. So we don't want you to punch your boss.

Miguel (66:14)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (66:15)

We don't want you to call him a bitch.

Miguel (66:16)

That was just.

Ego Wodem (66:17)

Yeah, don't do. I mean, but if you do do that, if you do, if you do call your boss a bitch, you owe me $100 and you're going to put it in the cussing bin. Yeah, that's what's going to happen.

Miguel (66:28)

Supporting the. The Unclaimed Children.

Ego Wodem (66:31)

Exactly that. The Unclaimed Children fund for me. Miguel, thank you so much for being here.

Miguel (66:36)

My pleasure.

Ego Wodem (66:37)

A ball with you. I appreciate you and people listen to the album. It's so good.

Miguel (66:40)

Get it on vinyl or cd. We have it on vinyl. Do that.

Ego Wodem (66:44)

That's sexy.

Miguel (66:45)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (66:46)

Okay. Get it on vinyl. Whiskey with it or meow. Sorry. I know. As soon as I.

iHeart Radio Announcer (66:52)

Whiskey, too. We.

Miguel (66:53)

Yeah.

Ego Wodem (66:53)

And see, here's the thing about Meal and me. We don't go together.

Miguel (66:56)

Okay.

Ego Wodem (66:57)

But Taquila and we have a fun time.

Miguel (66:59)

Yes.

Ego Wodem (67:00)

Yeah.

Miguel (67:00)

Yes. Let's go have some.

Ego Wodem (67:02)

I'm down. It's early, but let's go. I mean, it's our first tequila coffee.

Miguel (67:06)

Trust me, it'll. It'll balance it out.

Ego Wodem (67:08)

I think that's okay. All right. Thank you. All right, y'. All, that was my discussion with Miguel, and. And honestly, I think the coffee cooled it and it, like, it settled into my veins and I stopped being a freak at some point in the conversation. But if I was fidgeting, it was the drugs, the coffee. Drugs. Anyway, I absolutely love him. How wise is he? I really think you need to go listen to the album, Kaos. If you haven't Already. It's very good. That voice is so buttery. I'm fucking nasal, apparently. Do not comment on my voice. I only asked McGee opinion. A professional, my vocal coach and Miguel are allowed to comment on my voice, not you. Okay? This is the voice. This is. This is the voice I have, and we're all gonna be okay with it. I probably shouldn't have asked him that, you know, is how do I sound? Cuz I kind of knew the answer. But he said exactly what I wanted him to say, which was the truth. I hear it too, but I don't wanna see your comments about it because we don't need to be commenting on people's voices unless they ask and invite and I'm not inviting you speak about. Where's your invite? You do not have an invitation to speak on my voice, but I love you. Okay? If you want advice from me and my next guest, please call the thanks dad hotline. I'm about to look at a piece of paper. Cause, well, it's actually 502-thanks-Dads. That's 502-849-3237. Call, leave your request for advice. We will try our best to lead you possibly astray. But we're gonna lead you somewhere. Okay, bye, y'.

Miguel (68:41)

All.

Ego Wodem (68:41)

Thanks dad is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Heart podcast. I'm your host, Ego Wodem. Our producer is Kevin Bartelt, and our executive producer is Matt Apodak.