Podcast Summary: That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton

Episode: A New Way to Discuss School Shootings with Steve Hartman

Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Chelsea Clinton
Guest: Steve Hartman (CBS News correspondent, filmmaker)
Podcast by: Lemonada Media & The Clinton Foundation

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores school shootings in America through the deeply personal lens of Steve Hartman’s Oscar-nominated documentary short, All the Empty Rooms. The film tells the stories of families who have preserved their children's bedrooms after they were killed in school shootings, creating powerful imagery of absence and remembrance. Chelsea Clinton and Hartman discuss the challenges of bearing witness to such tragedies, the importance of empathy, and strategies for fostering meaningful change—without veering into divisive rhetoric. Throughout, the tone is compassionate, candid, and urgent.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Making and Motivation Behind All the Empty Rooms

• A Personal and Professional Departure
  • Hartman is known for uplifting stories but felt compelled to tackle this topic after growing "numb to the tragedies"—he wanted to “wake people up, including myself” (04:00).
  • The documentary focuses on the “absence” left in families, symbolized by untouched bedrooms.
• Selection of Stories
  • Letters were sent to every family who lost a child in a school shooting since Sandy Hook.
  • “Eight families agreed from five different tragedies… grade schools and high schools, poor communities, and wealthy communities. It was important for me to just show that this can touch anyone anywhere” (04:18).
• Unexpected Meaning
  • Initially aimed at countering numbness, the film became about “recognizing these children and reminding America of what the families have gone through” (05:47).
  • Some parents found meaning in sharing their children’s stories—"they just want their child remembered more than anything" (04:32).

2. Navigating the Conversation Around School Shootings

• Focus on Victims, Not Shooters
  • Hartman echoes the pain of survivors and stresses minimizing focus on shooters:

    “He didn’t care about the shooter. I wish… we had taken the focus off the shooter because really, it does not matter. The name doesn't need to be mentioned. We need to take every step… to make sure we’re not perpetuating this problem.” (10:04)

• The Suddenness and Specific Pain of School Shootings
  • Simple details in bedrooms, like “the cap on the toothpaste… not returned,” emphasize the abruptness of loss (11:05).
  • Hartman describes parents’ disbelief and struggle to accept that a tragedy has happened to their own child (12:38).

3. Approaching Empathy, Numbness, and Change

• Numbness and Bearing Witness
  • Repeated exposure to tragedy can lead to desensitization—Hartman warns, “When we start to think it can’t happen to us…that’s when we start to forget. ... There’s a real danger in that” (13:00).
  • The documentary changed his own perspective: “Anytime I hear about [a school] shooting… I know those bedrooms are out there” (13:24).
• Advice for Parents
  • Hartman struggles with how to prepare children: “You have to walk the line between making sure your kids are prepared and aware… but not making them focus on it” (13:56).
  • The "real solution is to just not have any more school shootings, so they don’t have to worry about it" (14:54).
• Empathy Through Storytelling Without Advocacy
  • The word "gun" is never used in the film, by design.

    “You start talking about guns and… you’re instantly only delivering to half of America… My agenda was really nothing more than just getting people to care about solving the issue… By not mentioning guns, we have been able to reach through to some people that might not have otherwise seen the film” (17:18, 18:04).

  • Notable impact:

    “[A] Sandy Hook denier… watched the film beginning to end and he was changed, fundamentally changed” (18:37).

4. Overcoming Resistance and the Value of Facing Hard Stories

• Some, even in newsrooms, find the subject “too painful” to watch. Hartman responds:

  “It angers me, especially when news people say that... I've never really met anybody who's watched it who hasn't been really glad they watched it… You feel. And everybody should want that for themselves” (19:44).

5. Concentric Circles of Impact

• Lasting scars go far beyond immediate families—schoolmates, parents, and communities are all deeply affected:

  “To this day, there are still parents who park their car outside the school and are there the whole school day… they need to make sure they're doing everything possible to protect their child..." (21:52).

• Long-term vigilance and constant fear mark many communities years after an attack.

6. Labels, Politics, and the Path to Change

• Hartman is skeptical about official labels like "public health crisis":

  “I just worry that those pronouncements can be very polarizing. ... It may do more harm than good” (26:26, 26:41).

• Real solutions require openness and compromise from all political sides, not just declarations or single solutions:

  “There's a big misconception that one thing is going to fix this… It's like trying to find a cure for cancer. We're not going to find one thing. It's going to have to be multiple things done at the same time…” (29:07).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Families Letting Him In:

  “Oftentimes close family members aren’t even allowed in these rooms. ... I made a promise that anybody who would allow us into the rooms, that they would be included in the project.” —Steve Hartman (04:06)

• On Empathy and Numbness:

  “We need to restore empathy. ... I want to remind people ... that we’re still good. ... I like to think of my job as restoring people’s faith in humanity by finding the good in people that’s out there.” —Steve Hartman (33:26)

• On Refusing to Face the Issue:

  “Thoughts, prayers, repeat — kind of what we do. It means nothing. ... You're saying I'm too afraid to actually seriously address this issue.” —Steve Hartman (30:44)

• On the Film’s Unified Message:

  “It’s not just nonstop tears throughout. There are laughs in there too, as you get to know these kids… I don't think we should be afraid to feel. That's all that's going to happen is you're going to feel and you're going to care—and everybody should want that for themselves.” —Steve Hartman (20:24)

Important Segments with Timestamps

• Introduction to Steve Hartman's Documentary:
  [00:10] – [04:00]
• The Process and Motivation for the Film:
  [04:00] – [07:58]
• Parent Testimony from Canada; Dangers of Focusing on Shooter:
  [07:58] – [13:14]
• On Numbness, Empathy, and Living With Tragedy:
  [13:14] – [15:19]
• Why the Film Never Mentions Guns:
  [17:14] – [19:22]
• On Facing Difficult Topics and Audience Resistance:
  [19:22] – [21:24]
• Ripple Effects in Schools and Communities:
  [21:24] – [23:11]
• Impact and Feedback from Families:
  [23:11] – [25:07]
• The Limits of Labels and Polarization:
  [25:07] – [28:52]
• On Multifaceted Solutions and Compromise:
  [28:52] – [30:12]
• Fact or Fiction Segment:
  [31:38] – [33:26]
• Final Reflections on Empathy and Good Journalism:
  [33:26] – [34:28]

Fact or Fiction Highlights

• Most gun deaths are in mass shootings: Fiction ([31:44])
• Gun violence is the leading cause of death for kids in the US: Fact ([31:52])
• US children uniquely exposed: Fact ([32:03])
• Media coverage impacts copycats: Nuanced—has been true, but not always ([32:17])
• Engagement is lower now than 20 years ago: Fact ([32:34])
• Repeated exposure reduces empathy: Fact ([32:43])
• Good journalism can still make a difference:

  “That's really the only reason that I'm still doing what I'm doing at the age of 62. Because I do feel like a well told story can make an impact.” —Steve Hartman ([33:26])

Tone & Language

• Thoughtful, serious, and at times somber.
• Deeply empathetic.
• Avoids political posturing; focuses on humanity, stories, and implications.

Takeaways

• Hartman’s approach is about restoring empathy and personal connection to the issue of school shootings, using the intimate spaces of bedrooms as potent reminders of absence and loss.
• The documentary avoids divisive political language, inviting viewers from all backgrounds to simply feel and reflect.
• Empathy and open-minded dialogue—not one-size-fits-all solutions or labels—are key themes.
• The episode is a call to bear witness, resist numbness, and push for change, encapsulated in the belief that “a well told story can make an impact.”

Further Resources

• All the Empty Rooms is available on Netflix.
• Steve Hartman’s "On the Road" segments air Fridays on CBS Evening News and CBS Sunday Morning.
• Follow Steve Hartman on Instagram: @hartmancbs

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