Podcast Summary: "Is Child Marriage Legal in Your State? Probably!"

Podcast: That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
Date: November 6, 2025
Guests: Fraidy Reiss (Founder, Unchained At Last), Payzee Mahmod (UK Child Marriage Survivor & Campaigner)
Host: Chelsea Clinton
Production: Lemonada Media & The Clinton Foundation

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode investigates the shocking reality that child marriage remains legally permissible in most U.S. states and was until recently legal in the UK. Through the deeply personal accounts of survivors and activists Fraidy Reiss and Payzee Mahmod, Chelsea Clinton foregrounds the urgent need to abolish child marriage everywhere. The conversation exposes both the human cost and the societal and legal loopholes that allow this issue to persist.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Prevalence and Legal Status of Child Marriage

• U.S. State Laws:
  • As of July 2025, only 16 U.S. states ban child marriage outright; 34 still permit it under some circumstances ([02:13]).
  • In many states, there are no minimum age limits or children as young as 0 can legally wed with judicial or parental consent.
• The Legal Trap:
  • Minors have limited ability to escape forced marriage due to their lack of legal status before 18 ([03:50], Fraidy Reiss).
  • Access to domestic violence shelters is also largely impossible for unaccompanied minors ([04:38], Fraidy Reiss).
• Public Perception:
  • Most Americans believe the minimum marriage age is 18 and are shocked to learn otherwise ([08:32], Fraidy Reiss).
  • In the UK, child marriage was until recently normalized and even public, not hidden ([05:50], Payzee Mahmod).

2. Personal Stories of Forced Marriage

• Payzee Mahmod (UK):
  • Forced to marry at 16; describes the open nature of child marriage in the UK—shopping for wedding dresses as a visible teenager ([07:12]).
  • No one questioned her—family, officials, or teachers.
  • Sought divorce at 18 but faced legal, religious, and cultural obstacles; recounts the lack of support and chilling remarks from a religious leader ([28:18]).
  • Motivated by the honor killing of her sister, Banaz, for seeking her own choices ([16:03]).
• Fraidy Reiss (US):
  • Forced into marriage at 19 by her fundamentalist religious community; spent 15 years in an abusive relationship ([30:57]).
  • Financial and educational independence through college enabled escape, but resulted in family estrangement ("They declared me dead." [32:12]).
  • Identifies patterns of lifelong abuse and the necessity of legal reform to stop the cycle.

3. Societal & Legal Justifications – “VOMITocious Wednesdays”

• Absurd Excuses from Lawmakers:
  • Legislators use arguments such as "taking away children's rights" or referencing religious or family traditions ([19:33], Fraidy Reiss).
  • Some cite their own underage marriages as justification; even invoke religious stories out of context ([20:55]).
  • "Prom Ho Justification"—a lawmaker argued for underage marriage so girls could have sex on prom night ([22:25], Fraidy Reiss):

    "In my culture, girls are not allowed to have sex before they're married. And when they go to our senior prom, they want to have sex. So therefore, high school girls should get married so that they can have sex on prom night." ([22:25], Fraidy Reiss)

4. Activism, Momentum, and Legal Change

• UK Progress:
  • 2022: The UK raised the legal marriage age without exceptions in England and Wales ([13:45], Payzee Mahmod).
  • Success came from having the ear and heart of lawmakers willing to listen to survivors' stories.
• US Progress – Notable States:
  • States are banning child marriage slowly; Maine as recent success; California remains without a minimum marriage age ([35:01], Fraidy Reiss).
  • Despite the perception of progressivism, California's minimum marriage age is effectively 0 ([34:14], Fraidy Reiss).
  • “WTF, MD?” campaign: Highlighting Maryland as a remaining East Coast holdout ([35:55], Fraidy Reiss).

5. Misconceptions and Broader Impact

• Child Marriage is Not Limited by Religion or Gender:
  • While predominantly affecting girls, boys are also forced into marriage; it crosses religious, racial, and socio-economic boundaries ([37:20], Fraidy Reiss).
• Personal Responsibility & Societal Invisibility:
  • Payzee recounts that throughout her ordeal, not a single teacher, doctor, or peer intervened or expressed concern, underscoring societal complicity ([26:03], Payzee Mahmod).
  • "I can say I think I should give credit to myself because at the age of 18, I fought for my divorce." ([27:41], Payzee Mahmod)
• Global Perspective:
  • Millions of girls worldwide are affected; this is a massive and ongoing human rights issue ([37:57], Payzee Mahmod).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Legal Contradiction and Entrapment:

  "[Child marriage] is the absolute horrific legal trap we create because of the contradiction... before 18 in the United States, as a minor, you have limited legal rights that limit the ability for you to leave home... or if you've already been married... getting away before 18 is difficult, if not impossible." (03:50, Fraidy Reiss)

• On Public Shock:

  "Studies show most Americans do not know that child marriage is legal and they want the marriage age to be 18. It's just that they think it already is that way." (08:32, Fraidy Reiss)

• On UK Normalization:

  "Child marriage in the UK doesn't happen here hidden, in very small communities that are segregated, it actually happens very openly... you have to go to a wedding shop, and everybody can see this is a child..." (05:50, Payzee Mahmod)

• On Shame & Honor:

  "The family's honor, the family's name and reputation is upheld on the shoulders of these young girls and it should never happen. It's a huge burden." (16:30, Payzee Mahmod)

• On Lawmaker Excuses:

  "That's like saying that banning child rape takes away a child's right to be raped. It's not a right. It's a human rights abuse." (19:33, Fraidy Reiss)

• On California's Law:

  "Oh, you're 15 years too high, Paisy." ... "Zero." (34:14, Fraidy Reiss & Chelsea Clinton on California's minimum marriage age)

• On Social Responsibility:

  "This issue affects everybody. If you claim to care about children, you claim to care about humanity. This is the first topic you should get involved in." (37:57, Payzee Mahmod)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening and Legal Reality Check: 00:06–04:38
• Fraudy Reiss on Legal Difficulties and Shelters: 03:50–05:03
• Payzee Mahmod on UK Normalization: 05:50–07:12
• Public Ignorance and Prevalence: 08:12–10:37
• Legislators' Absurd Excuses: 19:33–22:47
• Major Advocacy Wins (UK & Maine): 13:45–16:13 & 35:55–36:46
• Personal Stories:
  • Payzee’s Story: 07:12, 27:41–29:41 (divorce journey)
  • Fraidy’s Story: 30:33–33:00
• California’s Legal Status: 34:04–35:01
• Fact or Fiction Round: 36:46–38:33

Tone & Language

The episode is earnest, urgent, and direct—punctuated by moments of disbelief and dark humor (e.g., "VOMITocious Wednesdays"). The guests' stories are heart-wrenching but delivered with clarity, resilience, and hope for change.

Conclusion

This episode is a powerful exposé of the realities and enduring legal failures surrounding child marriage. Both guests make clear that the fight for change is not over and that everyone has a role to play. The recurring call: If you care about children or humanity, you must care about—and act on—this issue.