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That Can't Be True with Chelsea Clinton
‘This is the Level of Brutality We’re Seeing’: Gov. Wes Moore on Shutdown, SNAP & Child Poverty
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- [00:02]
A
Lemonade.
- [00:07]
B
Welcome to that Can't Be True, a show that sorts fact from fiction, especially on issues impacting our health. I'm Chelsea Clinton. Today's story should not be true in America, but it is. We're recording this on Monday, November 10th, day 41 of the Federal government shutdown, the longest in American history. And now, while the Senate has taken a key vote to potentially help reopen the government, the chaos in Washington certainly doesn't seem to be close to over. Lawmakers are debating trade offs that also just shouldn't be on the table. Between keeping people insured at reasonable rates and ensuring that children and families are able to access healthy food, millions of families, that means millions and millions of kids are at risk of losing their SNAP benefits. And while we call this supplemental nutritional Assistance, for many families, it's actually quite critical to their ability to ensure that their children have access to enough healthy food to fuel their bodies, their brains, and their hearts. In Maryland alone, 270,000 kids are at risk of losing their SNAP benefits. Governor Westmore has called this a human made disaster. I think a painfully perfect encapsulation of where we are and how we got here. He's declared a state of emergency to help keep people in his state fed, all while pushing his longer term agenda of ending child poverty and building on lasting economic security for everyone in Maryland. I also need to confess that Wes is a very old and very good friend. Hi, Wes.
- [01:59]
A
Hi, Charles.
- [02:01]
B
Wes, what is framed behind you? Is that your inauguration day?
- [02:04]
A
It is. That is the article from the sun from the inauguration Day, and you are right there.
- [02:11]
B
Oh, am I?
- [02:12]
A
Yes, you are.
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B
Well, look at that. With. With my mismatched shoes. Never going to forget that day for so many reasons. Oprah, looking down was like, Chelsea, are you wearing two different shoes? I was like, yes, ma'.
- [02:24]
C
Am.
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B
Is that fashion? I was like, no, ma'. Am. It's getting dressed in the dark at 5am yeah.
- [02:30]
A
It looked great. It looked great.
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B
Sure is. Wes, thank you so much for being with me. I have been lucky enough to call you a friend for more than half my life, which is wild to say. And I'm so grateful that Marylanders get to call you their governor and just so thankful for your time today.
- [02:52]
A
Chalice, you are one of my favorite human beings and so, wow. I feel the same adore you and I'm so grateful for this and congratulations. This is awesome.
- [03:00]
B
Oh, thank you. Well, I also, you know, it's meaningful to be talking to you on November 10, the day before Veterans Day. So certainly I Always hold you especially tightly in my heart that day. We're also talking on November 10, and while the shutdown may or may not be ending, we're in the midst of the longest government shutdown in history. It doesn't feel great, and I imagine it really doesn't feel great as a governor of Maryland.
- [03:27]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, this is, it's horrible because it's also just very deeply unnecessary that that's where we are. I mean, and again, it's not lost on anybody, you know, that this is Donald Trump's third government shutdown. He's been president for five years, and this is his third government shutdown. And the impacts are just very real, especially on us. I mean, I have, I have over 270,000 federal employees within my state, more than any other state in the country, that even prior to the federal government shutdown, that we've seen how the Trump administration has fired over 15,000 federal workers in the state of Maryland alone, which is more than any other state in the country. And so as we started seeing the impacts they were doing on SNAP and how they were literally breaking the law so children could starve, because I think it's really important people understand, you know, the history of SNAP. This is something that's been around since the late 1930s.
- [04:22]
B
This is a partnership actually started here in New York.
- [04:24]
C
Right.
- [04:24]
B
Started here in Rochester, New York. Right. The first snap benefits. Right. Delivered in 1939 during a presidential administration that was determined even in the midst of the Great Depression, to prove that government could work for people and that, you know, giving funds directly to people would both help ensure that they and their families would not go hungry and also that money would be circulating in the economy.
- [04:47]
A
That's exactly right. That, that, that being able to fight hunger and actually fight poverty is actually an economic engine that when you have a growing economy and more people participating in that economy, that you have a better economy. And so this has been a long standing partnership between the federal government and, and, and our states. But when we saw that the federal government was essentially working to break the law in order to, in order to, you know, to, to inflict as much pain, that's when we as a state just decided to act. And, you know, we've committed over $10 million go towards Maryland's food banks and food pantries to support people. I've now authorized $62 million to Marylanders so they can help put food on the table through snap. So we've said we're willing to help to take up a portion of The SNAP burden that we didn't have to, but if the federal government was going to do their job, I was going to wait for them to figure it out. But then literally within a day after making the announcement that we were going to do that, the federal government then said, well, we're going to punish you for trying to feed your people. So, I mean, like, this is the level of depravity, this is the level of brutality that we are seeing from this administration and the way they are working to, you know, working to just break people down as quickly as possible.
- [06:07]
B
Wes, I do, though, I want to go back to SNAP for a moment because, you know, as we were talking earlier, right. A program started in the Great Depression, not really. Historically, a political football generally has received extraordinary bipartisan support, has a lot of evidence for how critical SNAP has been on a myriad of different assessments, looking just at kind of nutritional health and well being, kind of broader health and well being as an anti poverty measurement. Why do you think SNAP has been so vulnerable in the last 40 days and counting? Why has kind of aim of cruelty from the Trump administration, targeted food assistance for hungry kids and people with disabilities and our beloved elderly? Why? Why?
- [07:01]
A
I remember watching an interview that I think the President was giving on Air Force One where he made a comment about how well, you know, the majority of people who are on SNAP are Democrats. Not only was it factually incorrect, it was just also deeply ignorant. And it was deeply ignorant because I saw how the President of the United States is politicizing something that frankly, for the people who it supports and the community that it supports, it's not a political exercise to them, to that, to that parent who is trying to find ways of making sure that they can support their children, to that parent, in many cases, who are trying to both take care of their children and their parents at the same time. This is not a political football to them. This is life and death. This is something that's truly helping them to be able to mobilize the idea that we are watching how, you know, these, these narratives and these tropes continue to get introduced about how well we who accept snap, these people who aren't working, who are just sitting down and just taking a check from the government, what is just completely just factually incorrect. But I think you're watching people who are sitting in these seats, who continue to politicize, who continue to weaponize, who continue to introduce misinformation into a larger conversation about what exactly is snap, who does support and why does it become so important and one thing I tell you, Chelsea, is one person I also have just been deeply disappointed by in this has actually been the vice president. Because, you know, I have known J.D. vance for a few years now. And in fact, when we first got to know each other, it was because he wrote this is around the same time that he wrote Hillbilly Elegy, I had written the Other Westmore. And people were put up, would put us together. And in fact, I met because we actually were doing something together, because they're saying these are two examinations of urban poverty and rural poverty and how to understand the connective tissues between these two things. And the fact that the vice president has now essentially become the face of this, the person who's making the argument as to why we should be cutting supplemental nutrition for people who, frankly, he wrote about for years.
- [09:20]
B
Well, and for many, it's not supplemental.
- [09:22]
A
For many, it's not supplemental.
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B
It's fundamental.
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A
That's exactly right. And so that, I think, has been the thing that has been just so deeply offensive, watching this shape shifting that has been taking place that he is helping to lead the charge on and where, you know, I remember when I first decided to run for governor. I remember I said to my team, I said, I have no problem spending all day long introducing myself to people who don't know me, but I refuse to send a single second reintroducing myself to people who do know me. And I feel like that is what is constantly happening with him. I'm not expecting Donald Trump to fight for snap. I'm not expecting Donald Trump to even, frankly, know what snap is. But, J.D. vance, that's the thing that is so disturbing about what we are seeing with this team, as they are just continually attacking the most vulnerable in our society and people who we need to be able to succeed if we want our.
- [10:19]
B
Large society to succeed completely so emphatically resonate with that front. I also think, you know, you talk about kind of the, the contempt that emanates from the White House for our most vulnerable. We certainly have seen that from the president in his first term and today, whether talking about people with disabilities, our Gold Star families, people on food assistance, people on Medicaid, and I'm curious, at a state level, is the partisanship still so poisoned, or are you able to have real conversations rooted in the real evidence and data and real stories from real people, people's lives, and to inoculate yourself a bit from that sense of kind of contemptuousness and cruelty that seemed to be the currency of the Trump White House.
- [11:15]
A
You know, one of the things that I've been actually really encouraged by is the people who have been who are closest to the communities oftentimes are the ones who do not let the partisan stuff get in the way of progress for the communities that they serve. You know, I remember when we had historic floods in Western Maryland. You know, we were literally watching how boats would have to go to the second floor of the schoolhouse to go save children because the first floor is completely washed out. And we work very closely with the people of the community. The people of Western Port, they have a remarkable mayor, a woman named Judy Hamilton, who was a lifelong Republican, proudly voted for Donald Trump. And we worked very closely and very hard together to be able to get the community back on their feet. When I put in for federal disaster relief for Western Port and for Western Maryland, it was turned down by the Trump administration, which is simply a note saying that support for Maryland is not warranted. And I remember literally having conversations with the Trump administration where I said to them, I just want, I know you all think that my entire state is just Baltimore, but. But I just want to tell you that 78 of the jurisdiction who you just turned down 8 for, they voted for you.
- [12:37]
B
And what did they say?
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A
Oh, the, the Trump administration had nothing to say. I put in an appeal. They again turned down their turn down.
- [12:43]
B
The appeal because whether you're a Democrat or Republican, you should get flood assistance.
- [12:46]
A
You should get flood assistance. There, there was the, the, the budget for Mayor Hamilton. Mayor Judy, her town is $2 million. She had over $30 million of damage that was done to her template. And the state provided millions of dollars support, but still could never make up for the tens of millions of dollars that should have come from fema, but that was just turned down from this Trump administration. The reason I bring her up, Chelsea, is that when I announced that I was running for reelection, one of the first people that announced that they were supporting me for re election was Mayor Judy. And she's a lifelong Republican. And she joined a whole series of Republicans all over the state of Maryland who oftentimes were mayors and county executives and people who were close to the ground, who said that even if I disagree with the governor on some issues, he listens, he shows up, and he builds a table that's big enough for all of us. And so I've been really encouraged that the poisonous of the politics that we see oftentimes in Washington, D.C. it doesn't have to be penetrate our local communities and our local leaders, because we just focus on getting things done for our people. And I think people recognize that and see it.
- [13:55]
B
Problem solving. That's it, right? Non ideological, but evidence based problem solving.
- [14:00]
A
That's right.
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B
This episode is sponsored by Better Help. As seasons change and days grow darker, it can be a tough time for anyone. So this November, BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out, to check in on friends, to reconnect with loved ones, and to remind the people in your life that you're there. Maybe it's calling grandma. Gosh, I wish I could still call my grandmother. Or grabbing lunch with a friend that you haven't seen in a while. We know we're healthier when we have community, just as it can take a little courage to reach out to someone you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too, but it almost always leaves people wondering, why didn't I do this Sooner? With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, and it's already served more than 5 million people around the world this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com CantBeTrue that's better. H E L P.com Can'tBeTrue well, hi.
- [15:21]
C
Everybody, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not gonna talk about food waste this time. I'm gonna talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can, but it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America, and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a rich, risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.
- [17:03]
B
One thing I try to talk about in every conversation because I think it's an area that has been so distorted by weaponized mis and disinformation are vaccines and vaccinations. And I am incredibly proud that you, my friend, have been such a strong supporter and a defender of the importance of childhood immunizations and routine vaccinations for all of us. Can you just share why that is so important to you as both a governor and a parent?
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A
Yes. Well, you know, it's important to me because it's science.
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B
Oh, science.
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A
That silly science thing.
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B
Science. We love science.
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A
We love science because that actually is how it should be guiding our decisions on public health. That, you know, like I always say, like if you just follow data and if you follow science, you actually brings you to better solutions. And you know, I just feel like so many times what we're seeing from a lot of these folks, particular national folks, is these are not science based decisions, these are ideological based decisions. And that is never going to lead you to the right answer, especially when it comes to the health of our children.
- [18:16]
B
You know, it's so painful that we're talking this week. I mean, Canada is about to lose its measles free status and the United States is on track to lose our measles free status, something that has been a defining kind of public health achievement for more than 25 years. And I think it has been so critically important that we've had governors, Democrat and Republican governors, who have been very forthright, evidence based, but not kind of back footed about the support for vaccines. And I know sometimes people are like, oh my God, Chelsea Glynn's talking more about vaccines and vaccinations. But it's both because I would argue along with clean water, sanitation and antibiotics are the greatest human achievements arguably ever that have helped protect lives and livelihoods and facilitated candidly like all of our dreams, but but also because so much of the rest of our health is dependent on them. Right. If we are sick a lot as children, we're more likely to be sick as adults. If our immune system is weakened because of measles, we're going to be vulnerable to other things later on. It's both for kind of historically what they've meant for us as a society and also kind of what they're profoundly important Too, for ensuring your kids, my kids, and all children are able to have the healthiest possible chance to be able to go to school on any given day, but also to grow up and thrive over the course of, God willing, their very long lives ahead.
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A
And that's the thing. It's like, I just think no parent should ever have to witness the pain of watching their child have to endure something like measles for their life when we know these things are avoidable. I think about, you know, the importance of.
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B
Of.
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A
Of, you know, when we had vaccine for polio. Right.
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B
Does your mom. Because my mother remembers standing in line with my grandmother for, like, six hours. And my grandmother said it was like, one of the greatest days of her whole life. Like standing in line for six hours in Chicago to get, you know, my. My mother and her little brothers vaccinated against polio.
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A
That's right.
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B
So that, like, they could go to the pool in the summer.
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A
Exactly.
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B
I bet your mom has a similar story of, like, standing in line to.
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A
And the reason is because, you know, when we tell people, why is this become important? It's like, no one should have to be that parent who no now then has a child who is inflicted with polio. Right. Or. Or measles or things that we know that science shows us that things that we could do to actually avoid this. And now we have a parent who is now dealing with this for the remainder of their life. This burden of what it meant that you did not have all the right information or the right tools or the right access. And it's just deeply unfair.
- [21:06]
B
Wes. I think a lot about this administration having such a disdain for the past, for precedent, for science and evidence, and kind of the expertise and the experts who. Who dedicated their lives kind of in service of helping advance human knowledge so that we always know more about how to keep ourselves more safe, more healthy, more well. And I think it is intimately connected to the destruction of the east wing, which I found quite appalling to watch. I found incredibly upsetting. The destruction of the people's house. I'd always understood that it was my home. Very much so. I very much felt at home for the eight years that my family lived there. And yet I equally understood it was never my house. Not in the same way, you know, when I called you to talk to you at your house for the young listeners back when we all had landlines or, you know, the ways I would feel like when I would go spend the night at one of my friends, it was their house and their home, whereas I Had this understanding of this bifurcation of this is my home and not my house, this is the people's house. And I wonder, as someone who has, has been such a student of history and has been so determined to kind of learn from what has helped make our country great to this point and also how we could always be better, what thoughts you have about the attack on our symbols as well as the attack on science and our institutions.
- [22:44]
A
I think the thing that I've seen and noticed is they're all just deeply tied. You know, I think about how we got here in the first place and, you know, and what happened that we actually opened the window that allowed Donald Trump to crawl back in, despite having a four year example of how problematic this was, that the country then came about and said, you know, let's try this again, you know, and I think about for, for the president, where he actually dissected the fact that there was a measure of frustration that people had. He was a fantastic vessel for the frustration, that he does a fantastic job of telling people what's wrong, telling people why it's wrong, telling people who's to blame for it. But the thing that people are realizing about him is that he is not saying I alone can fix it, he's saying I alone can break it. But I think the thing that we have to be able to do, show how we win the argument, is if we can show people what good governance looks like, feels like, why it matters, why you need to be engaged in this, that that is the way that we are going to actually both win elections, but also win imaginations, you know, win hearts and minds, win people's aspirations.
- [24:15]
B
I completely agree. And that's why what you're doing is so important to show how when leaders are connected to and listening to and in partnership and solidarity with the people who voted for you and did not vote for you, it has such profound resonance. And I think you definitely embody that. We've talked about vaccines and SNAP and the importance of showing up in floods, actual and metaphorical. I do want to talk about healthcare broadly. We are in a deep dynamic of both, I think, table top and kitchen counter discussions about kind of what healthcare should be in our country, and very fierce debates in Washington around the role of the government in both providing health insurance to people, helping people pay for that insurance, and also in protecting especially rural health care. So ensuring that or not ensuring that there are hospitals and clinics and doctor's offices for people to go to, whether they're living right down the street from Johns Hopkins or in the far reaches of western Maryland. Wonder how that that set of conversations and debates are kind of filtering through in Maryland and what you want people to know about kind of what you're doing as governor, almost regardless of what may emerge out of Washington.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah, you know, it's. And this is, and this is, as you know, Chelsea, this is a. It's a very deeply personal one for me because I, you know, I watched my dad die in front of me when I was three years old because he didn't get the health care that he needed. I've seen how health care has changed entire trajectories of families, and I don't understand how we can be a humane society when we are letting healthcare be something that is a privilege for so few and this unbelievable burden for so many. It's the reason why, frankly, I've said, and I will just continue to say, that I do not understand how somehow a prerequisite for having a federal government that's open is cutting people off of healthcare. I don't understand it, nor would I.
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B
Ever agree with it or understand how someone can make that argument with a straight face and apparently a clear heart and conscience.
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A
That's right. And think that that's okay to watch people's premiums jump because, hey, that's, that's, that's the cost. I, I don't. I do not understand it, and I do not think that's the way we should be running our country. You know, we've seen how over the process this past year, you know, when I first came on board, I said, you know, listen, we are going to invest in health care inside of our state. When I, you know, we actually made the largest investments in rural health care in our states, you know, in. In really our state's history.
- [27:15]
B
And what did that look like? What did that look like, Wes, for people living in, you know, more rural parts of the country, if they hear the governor saying, like, oh, my gosh, we're going to make a big investment.
- [27:23]
A
Yeah.
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B
What does that change in their lives?
- [27:24]
A
So. And one thing that we did, for example, we invested in a. In a new hospital that is over in. In Talbot county, which is over far over in the Eastern Shore of Maryland. This is a place that has not had. You've had the entire Eastern Shore, where if a person didn't. Not even just specialized care, we're even talking just like basic primary care, they literally had to cr.
- [27:45]
B
Over.
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A
The Bay Bridge was one of the largest bridges inside of our state in order to get basic primary Care. And I said, this is just, it's absurd that people have to travel that far, have to do so much in order to have their health care needs met. And so we made an investment in the, the first hospital now in generations that is going to take place in Talbot county, which can be able to serve six eastern shore counties, both primary and specialized care that we focused on things like, you know, part of the reason that we focused on broadband and I made the large investments in broadband, we now have 99.5% of our state covered.
- [28:21]
B
And Wes, not that it's a competition, but how many other states can say the same?
- [28:25]
A
Oh, hardly any.
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B
I just, I just wanted you to be able to say that.
- [28:28]
A
Hardly any. But part of the big reason why is because when people talk about, yes, it helps with education. Absolutely. It helps with, you know, people apply for jobs. Absolutely. But it's also, it's telehealth. You're now opening healthcare to a whole new group of people when you can add broadband access into communities. And so there's also.
- [28:47]
B
But connectivity shouldn't be a luxury. Exactly. Human connection is, is vital to our health and well being. It's part of what helps us be human.
- [28:55]
A
It helps us to be and everything else you said. That's exactly right. And so a big thing. So we, so we have made all these investments, we're feeling good. And then we look at this most recent budget that was just passed by this White House which literally cut, just cut a quarter of a billion dollars from our rural hospitals. That, that, that budget, that bill that was passed that is now taking away health care for nearly 250,000 Marylanders, most of them rural Marylanders. And again, it goes back to this idea where the people who we are punishing, right, are the farmers, our local leaders, people who are living in rural parts of our state. These are states who oftentimes parts of our state that actually voted for the president. And this is the first people that he's going after with his budget. And so we are really focusing on health care because you cannot have a growing and a vibrant and a thriving economy if you have a state that is sick. And that's the thing we really wanted to prevent inside of, inside of the state of Maryland.
- [30:17]
B
Before we kind of go to a segment we always do on this show called Fact or Fiction, where I'm going to say a variety of things and you're gonna tell me whether you think they're fact or fiction.
- [30:26]
A
I love it.
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B
I do wanna just ask something that I kind of embedded in an earlier question, which is, I know it's so important to you to be a present dad, something you and I have talked about, something I have a little bit experience about of having had a governor as a dad. And yet I know because you're kind of such a dedicated dad, you also want to do your job 24 hours a day because you want every child in your state to have every opportunity that every parent, at least, should want for their kids. And so I wonder, how does being a dad influence how you think about your job? And if you're comfortable sharing, I'm curious what your two kids think are the most important things you should be focused on that maybe you haven't gotten to yet. It.
- [31:14]
A
Oh, that's so good.
- [31:15]
B
I gave my dad all sorts of unsolicited feedback as a child. So I'm just curious. Well, and solicited. He asked what I thought, too. Solicited and unsolicited.
- [31:23]
A
Well, I tell you, I mean, one of the fun things is that especially for our daughter, our daughter is now, now 14, and our son. And our son is 12. And especially for our daughter, she is someone who is so insightful and thoughtful. I literally will call her when I'm like, wrestling with something and I'm like, hey, I have an idea. What do you think about this? Or this is a debate that's going on.
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B
Well, because she's going to tell you the truth. She's going to tell you the truth. She's insightful and she's. There's no bs. She's going to tell you the truth.
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A
She's going to tell you the truth. And so I think being, being a, being a parent in this is. It's just really important for them to see not just what you're doing, but why you're doing it, because these things do pull you away a lot. And so by being able to engage them as much as possible, but by being able to remind them about the things that are important, I think it's just been absolutely critical and important. And frankly, I think one of the real, you know, one of the real joys about it, because you were seeing how their interest and their passions continue to develop. But you just hope that it has that underlying wiring of just know that. You know that. That the world doesn't revolve around you, but the world will be incomplete without you.
- [32:48]
B
That's beautifully said. Well, when I was little, I really wanted there to be better school lunches, which was actually not something that my dad had a lot of authority over as governor I really wanted there to be more playgrounds. You know, I had, like, very elementary school specific requests when I was a kid. And my dad also would be like, but I'm. I'm fighting to expand medic, Medicaid for new moms. And I was like, and I'm so proud of you. So proud of you. And, comma, could we maybe have more variety in our school lunches? So I also. The one moment of final levity before I kind of ricochet us into our fact and fiction game is when I was in preschool. So my dad. I was born. When my dad was governor of Arkansas in 1980, he lost in the Reagan landslide. Arkansas was the last state to move to four year gubernatorial term. So he ran again in 82, and he won. And so when I was in preschool, we were going around and everyone was saying what their parents did, like, circle time on the rug. And there was, like, a little girl. I think her mom was a teacher, someone else's parent was a doctor. And I didn't really know at like three or four what the governor did. Like, I was very proud of my dad. And I'd go to rallies and I'd hand out stickers and American flags and hold signs and cheer, but I didn't really. I didn't really know what he did. And so it got to me, and I told everyone that my dad was a fry guy at McDonald's because I thought that was, like, the coolest job that I could think of. And unsurprisingly, all the kids were like, well, sir, are you gonna take us to McDonald' and give us free French fries? And I'm thinking, oh, shoot, this is why we don't lie. It's a terrible conundrum. And so I got home and my parents, with barely suppressed laughter because clearly the teacher had called to tell them that I had told quite a tall tale, reminded me that we never lie, that we always tell the truth, that we should be also proud of our family. And so the next day, I had to go and explain that my dad, yes, made a lot of speeches, that he worked to get bills passed, that he did travel a lot, and that he had a lot of, like, outdoor parties with a lot of fun stickers and signs.
- [35:02]
A
So I actually don't know if my definition of what I do is actually any more elevated than that at this point.
- [35:11]
B
Yeah. So, dad, dad, what you could have been. What you could have been. But really, I'm so thankful for your time, but want to play our game quickly?
- [35:20]
A
Absolutely.
- [35:21]
B
Some of which we've covered. But I also think it's important to crystallize further. All right, so fact or fiction? Most people who receive SNAP benefits don't have jobs. Fact or fiction?
- [35:34]
A
Absolute fiction. And it's one of the most devious lies that's told about people who receive SNAP benefits that, you know, somehow they're just people who are just sitting around and waiting for the government to do everything for them. The majority of people are actually, first of all, the majority of our people are people with families. There are people with children. You know, I think it's over a quarter of a million in Maryland children who are under the age of 18 years old. That, that the people who are serving, including by the way, Marylanders with disabilities, including seniors, are actually also still working and receiving SNAP benefits because this is something that is really helping them to be able to survive, helping them to be able to move and elevate, helping them to be able to support them and their families. And so. So it is one of the most devious lies that is out there that somehow people who are receiving SNAP benefits are just sitting around doing nothing and waiting for the government to take care of them. That is not why it was created and that is not who it is serving.
- [36:36]
B
So probably similar reaction to programs like SNAP or the child tax credits or Medicaid create dependency forever. Fact or fiction?
- [36:47]
A
Another one. Absolute fiction. It's funny, this was actually one of the big reasons why I ran for government governor where I was actually, I was running Robinhood, one of the largest poverty fighting organizations and in the country. And I remember working with a former governor on the issue of the child tax credit. And I was explaining why the child tax credit is actually one of the most important tools that you could have to address the issue of childhood poverty. Because you know, when you're talking about who is being supported by the child tax credit, you're talking people like cashiers and cooks and home health aides and you know, people who are actually working, involved in the economy. But it's providing a little bit of extra support. I told him, I told this former governor, you should include it in the state of the state. This align, you should use fast forward. I get an advanced copy of the state of the State. There's nothing there about child poverty, nothing in there above the child tax credit. And I remember I was pretty upset and I called up the head of public policy over Robin Hood and I was like, you know, I'm ranting on. And then when I finally breathed, he said to me, he said, listen, we Worked for six months to try to get him to include a line in this speech. But what if you could write the whole speech? And that was kind of the point. And so the idea that, that somehow the child tax credit creates a dependency is absolute fiction. It is one of the most important tools that we could have to both reduce child poverty and create a measure of, of sustainable economic mobility that we will run for our families.
- [38:16]
B
President Trump can find a way to run for a third term. Fact or fiction?
- [38:20]
A
Absolutely not. That's fact. We just need, you know, we need make sure that Congress remembers the Constitution, which oftentimes, I mean, I've been dismayed at our Congress right now at times, how there's this bending over that's existing when it comes to, when it comes to Trump administration, but absolutely not. They would literally have to alter the Constitution in order for that to happen.
- [38:47]
B
Last year, President Trump alleged that at an Army Navy football game, you told him he was, quote, the greatest president of your lifetime and that he had done a fantastic job. Friend, is this fact or fiction?
- [39:00]
A
I remember when I saw this video, I actually started laughing out loud. I was like, he's just making this up as he goes along, isn't he?
- [39:08]
B
Very on brand. Very on Brand for the president.
- [39:12]
A
I mean, literally, what happened was he gets out and I tell you, and I say to him, I was like, welcome back to Maryland. And he says to me, first thing.
- [39:22]
B
I was where the Naval Academy is, right? If people don't know that, right, The Navy Academy is in, is in Maryland.
- [39:26]
A
Is in Maryland, is in Annapolis. And the Army Navy game was being played in Maryland as it's being played again this year in Maryland. And so immediately I said, welcome Back to Maryland, Mr. President. And the first thing he says to me, he goes, you're a really good looking guy in person too. And I said, thank you, Mr. President. Not quite sure what to make of that. And then he tells me, he says, my people tell me you're doing a really good job. What can I, how can I help? Help? And I started talking about our bridge in Baltimore. And then he said, we're gonna help out. That was the conversation. But then I'm literally listening to him making up this conversation goes along. How about I told him he's the greatest president and you know how I can't say that publicly? I was like, I wouldn't say publicly because I didn't say privately either. It is just, it was, it was fascinating watching. How to your point, how on Brand.
- [40:12]
B
Did he help you with the bridge?
- [40:13]
A
He Absolutely did not.
- [40:16]
B
Every Marylander can pick a crab clean with their eyes closed. Fact or fiction?
- [40:22]
A
Absolute fiction. However close to fact. Well, I tell you here, here's the thing. You can always tell if someone's a real Marylander by when the, when you have a bushel. A bushel of crabs. If you see them grab a mallet. If they grab a mallet, they're from Virginia. Oh, Wes, Marylanders use their hands.
- [40:48]
B
Okay, last one. All right. You, you turned 47 recently.
- [40:51]
A
I did.
- [40:52]
B
And I hear that you could do 47 push ups in a row. Fact or fiction?
- [40:57]
A
That is an, that is an absolute fact. I, I, I'm very proud of the fact that even at 47 years old, there is no doubt in my mind I could still max a PT test.
- [41:08]
B
Wait, when you were a kid, did you have the Presidential fitness test when you were a kid?
- [41:12]
A
We did.
- [41:12]
B
Did you, did you pass?
- [41:15]
A
I did not when I was a kid.
- [41:16]
B
You didn't?
- [41:17]
A
I did not when I was a kid.
- [41:18]
B
Why not? I'll tell you why I didn't if you tell me why you didn't. Why didn't you pass?
- [41:21]
A
Well, so why I didn't pass is probably not as good a story. It's just, I don't know how if I took it as seriously, but I think maybe I could have. But I don't know if I took it seriously, but I don't know. Why didn't you pass?
- [41:32]
B
So I didn't pass because, like, I could do, like, the running and the jumping and the sit ups and I couldn't do a pull up. And then I was, like, so annoyed, and now I can definitely do a set of pull up, but.
- [41:46]
A
Chelsea, you've always been really athletic since I've known you.
- [41:48]
B
I have, I have. But, but at the time, I don't think anybody ever asked me to do a pull up. Right. So I was like, what is this? I took ballet and, like, played soccer and softball. I, I, So anyway, it was so gangly and, but yes, I have no doubt that you would, you would pass the Presidential fitness this test, which, if that's something that, you know, the president wanted to bring back, I would be very supportive of that. I think it's great to have things that children can aspire toward and where maybe one year, like you don't, you know, do as well, and then you kind of think about where to focus. Time, energy, effort, Friends to little west.
- [42:21]
A
That's right. That's exactly right.
- [42:23]
B
You know, for the future.
- [42:24]
A
And, and I think for a lot of people why? Physical health, in many ways is. Is. Is. Is also just mental health. I mean, some of when I work, I work out of the Naval Academy, me, every morning. And I always say when people like, that's wild that you go there and you work out, and it's great because it's like down the street from the house. But also when I get a chance to work out there, it is one of the best mental health times that I have for the day. Because you're pushing yourself. You are in your zone. You're working out with all these people. And, you know, when we have the opportunity to work out with the midshipmen, you, some. Some, you know, very intense young people, but it's this great mental health for you as well. And so. So that's also why I'm very proud of you. By the way, Chels, congratulations on the marathon again.
- [43:07]
B
Oh, yes, thank you. Thank you. I haven't given up trying to convince you to run it with me.
- [43:13]
A
I ran along.
- [43:15]
B
I'll come to you. I'll come to you. There's one in Baltimore or Annapolis.
- [43:19]
A
There is. There is.
- [43:20]
B
I'll come to you. If you'll run with me, I'll come to you. Well, Wes, I'm just so grateful for your time.
- [43:25]
A
I love you, Chelsea.
- [43:27]
B
I love you so much. All my love to your family. I am so grateful that we have your leadership, especially in this moment, that you're so relentlessly focused on solving real problems for the real people in your state. So thank you for the example you're setting and thank you for your time today.
- [43:43]
A
Thank you. God bless you and thank you. Give my love to the whole family.
- [43:46]
B
Thank you, friend. I will. You can learn more about Westmore@govwest, moore and and amwestmore on Instagram. Or, of course, please follow everything that he's doing in Maryland directly. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next week. That can't be True is a production of Limonada Media and the Clinton Foundation. The show is produced by Katherine Barnes Mix in sound design by Ivan Koria. Kristen Lepore is senior director of new content and Jackie Danziger is VP of narrative and production. Maggie Kralshore is our managing director of partnerships. Executive producers are Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Whittles Wax and me, Chelsea Clinton. Special thanks to Erica Goodmanson, Sarah Horowitz, Francesca Ernst Kahn, Caroline Lewis, Sage Valter, Barry, Larry Westerberg, Emily Young and the entire team at the Clinton Foundation. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. And if you can think of someone who might benefit from today's episode, please go ahead and share it with them. There's more of that can't be true with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe on Apple Podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening and see you next week.