Podcast Summary: That Neuroscience Guy – "The Neuroscience of Exploring and Exploiting"

Host: Olav Krigolson
Date: November 23, 2025
Episode Theme: The neuroscience behind how humans balance exploration (trying new things) and exploitation (sticking to what we know works), especially in the context of decision making.

Brief Overview

In this third episode of his decision-making series, neuroscientist Olav Krigolson delves into the fundamental dilemma of human choice: when to stick with what works ("exploitation") versus when to try new possibilities ("exploration"). Through relatable analogies (especially pizza hunting!), Dr. Krigolson explains why people sometimes deviate from always picking the best-known option, what happens in the brain during these decisions, and how our exploration levels shift over time and with familiarity.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Revisiting the Basics: Value and Expected Value

• Value: The benefit or reward associated with a choice.
• Expected Value: Value multiplied by the probability of getting it; practically the same as "value" when the chance of getting it is 100%.
  (00:58–02:15)
• Takeaway: Our first instinct is to pick what has the highest expected value, but real-life decision-making is more nuanced.

2. The Explore-Exploit Dilemma

Pizza Example: Why We Explore

• When in a new city, the host tries pizza from different locations. The first one tried sets the initial "highest value," but unknown places are at "zero value."
• Exploring other options helps find if something better exists, even if it means picking an initially lower-valued option.
  (02:16–05:00)
• Quote:

  "So one of the reasons we might not choose the highest value is to check out or explore more of the unknown. And sure enough, that’s what humans do."
  —Olav Krigolson [04:26]

Broader Implications

• Motor Skills Analogy: Learning to hit a tennis ball; exploration here is trying a different set of neural patterns to potentially improve performance.
  (06:05–07:00)

• Rule Update:

  • Rule 1: Always choose the highest value.
  • Rule 2: Sometimes, explore – don’t always exploit.

  (05:00–08:00)

When the World Changes

• Even after finding the "best" option, changes (like a new pizza chef) can prompt renewed exploration to reassess values.
• Quote:

  "You explore when the situation is unknown, but sometimes you explore just to check values in case the world changes or because the world changes."
  —Olav Krigolson [08:10]

3. Neural Mechanisms of Explore/Exploit Decisions

• Pattern Differences: Brain activity differs between exploration and exploitation.
• Cites work by Cameron Hassell (former student) on identifying brain mechanisms tied to exploration.
• Locus Coeruleus:
  • Identified as a key midbrain structure involved in exploration.
  • Releases norepinephrine; a sudden surge may trigger exploration over exploitation.
    (09:00–10:20)
• Quote:

  "If there’s a sudden phasic increase in norepinephrine, that might trigger your decision to explore and override the decision to exploit."
  —Olav Krigolson [10:37]

4. How Much Should We Explore? The Balancing Act

• Downsides of Too Much Exploration: Always exploring means you rarely pick the best-known option.

• Downsides of Too Little: You might never discover something better, or fail to correct an initial bad sample (e.g., visiting the best pizza place when the chef is out might mislead you). (11:00–13:05)

• Fluid Exploration Rate:

  • New environments prompt more exploration.
  • Familiar places lead to less but still some exploration.
  • No strict formula—the rate adapts over time and with familiarity, memory, and other factors.

• Quote:

  "If you don’t explore enough, you won’t learn the true values of the world."
  —Olav Krigolson [13:12] "When you’re in a novel environment, you tend to explore more early on, but then you dial down your exploration rate. So the exploration rate isn’t set; it’s changing over time."
  —Olav Krigolson [14:00]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Pizza as Life’s Metaphor:
  The recurring pizza analogy enlivens the episode and makes neuroscience approachable.
• Exploration Isn't Random:
  The brain's system for exploration is rooted in real, measurable brain chemistry and neural activity—not just whimsy.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:15 – Introduction, value and expected value in decisions.
• 02:16–05:00 – Introduction of explore/exploit dilemma via pizza analogy.
• 05:00–08:00 – Why and when we choose to explore; updating simple decision models.
• 08:00–09:00 – Exploring in response to environmental changes.
• 09:00–10:20 – Neural mechanisms; locus coeruleus and norepinephrine.
• 11:00–13:50 – How much to explore, the balance, and real-world examples.
• 14:00–15:00 – The adaptive nature of exploration rates.
• 15:00–End – Recap of decision-making series and closing remarks (content section ends).

Final Thoughts

This episode demystifies the scientific underpinnings of why we sometimes “play it safe” and other times “take a risk.” Dr. Krigolson’s practical, down-to-earth style—peppered with pizza and tennis examples—lays out how these everyday decisions are rooted in measurable brain activity and evolved behavioral strategies. If you’ve ever wondered what’s happening in your head when you choose between your favorite old haunt and the new place down the block, this episode will give you plenty to chew on.