John Marco Ceresi (2:41)

Yes, I mean, I, I hope this is correct. Clown Bar, the hit.

Eric Williams (2:46)

Off, off, off.

John Marco Ceresi (2:47)

Cool venue.

Eric Williams (2:48)

Very cool venue. I was telling producer Nathaniel about the show before you logged on. For anybody who doesn't know, what would you say is the box most famous.

John Marco Ceresi (2:56)

For very erotic variety shows that start late, that starts at like 1 and goes to 5. And it's.

Eric Williams (3:09)

Did you ever go to those like 1am shows?

John Marco Ceresi (3:11)

Yeah, there was, there was some night that they organized for Clown Bar and it was. I should have been on cocaine or recently tried it for the first time. K. Ketamine. Because by three in the morning I was like, get me out of here. It was so if you're late. But my favorite story from it is there was a performer where the act was that they were fisting themselves and they, they couldn't get it all the way first time, so they shook their hand out second time. And I thought, oh, maybe this is a bit. Here goes the third. I couldn't quite get it. And we all just kind of like, well, they got a lot in there. That's impressive, I guess. But that's, you know, that's, I imagine their version of cracking on the high note or falling out of the.

Eric Williams (4:02)

Sure, it's not getting the full fist inside, but you have to, you have to commend them for trying to loosen up the joints because sometimes you have to breathe into the fist. I am intrigued by your experience with ketamine because it's funny, I've just turned 36 and I've realized that I have not done many a drug at all. And ketamine was one of those that I thought, huh, as a gay guy, I feel like I should at least try. And I never have. What was your reaction?

John Marco Ceresi (4:28)

Well, it was funnily enough, on Fire Island, I was, I was with my friend Jay Jerdan. And so we were with like an older, rich gay man's house. So when he had the ketamine and said that it was tested, I go, oh, this is probably safe. That's the only reason, because I get so scared about all the things. But he seemed like he had the money to make sure this was. Was good. And he did some first, so it was fine. I wouldn't, I would do it if it was right for the mood, it's very quick. It's kind of a little bit of a drunk and a high, and it hits fast, it goes away fast, and it's just kind of like a little bit floaty. But I was still able to talk articulately, so it was. It was fun. I'm glad I tried it.

Eric Williams (5:20)

Did it change. Did it change your horniness level at all?

John Marco Ceresi (5:24)

No, I didn't really feel more horny, probably. Probably like, my guard was down if someone was trying to flirt with me, but my girlfriend was there to keep me in check.

Eric Williams (5:37)

Did she do ketamine or. We're not allowed to talk about her drug.

John Marco Ceresi (5:40)

I. I would just say it'd be surprising if she didn't give it a try. But she. But she. It was one of those. It doesn't seem to. She knocked it over with her nose. So I don't think really any got in, so I think she tried, but. But I just.

Eric Williams (5:58)

It. The drug culture to me is. It's so, like. I don't know, we're living in an era where there's just so much more information. And so I feel like we are able to take more steps to decide if we want to take drugs or not. And it's like, now that I'm my own parent, in a way, I'm like, you know what? I think it's actually okay if I try it. I just. Just, like, you have to make sure it's the exact right scenario. Test it with the strips. And then.

John Marco Ceresi (6:22)

Well, I got a chart. I was with. I was with another guy. He gave me a chart on my phone, and that shows drug interactions. Because I think what I always do is I go like, well, I had a mimosa this morning. Can I have K at night? And this drug thing was like, yeah, it's okay, or don't do this. And so as I've gotten older, I never did drugs when I was at the age that I should have. And now that I'm past my mid-30s, I'm like, okay, let's get it in while you still can.

Eric Williams (6:54)

Well, it's funny, when we met, you and I are both now, I guess, very similar age because we did Clown Bar, which, for anybody who doesn't know, which is everyone, that was a show that was produced by Pipeline Theater Company, which was born out of the acting school I went to at nyu. And all these great people are a part of the theater company. But this show was like a clown mafia show. And John Marco and I were both like, what? Understudies in the, on like swings of the show and you understudy the star, the main part. And I was, you know, the bitsy ass characters. But I remember at this time you were like pounding the pavement as an actor. You were spending a ton of money taking one on one classes.

John Marco Ceresi (7:36)

So much money.

Eric Williams (7:37)

Directors and agents. And then I would normally drag you for it, but baby, you booked a giant GE commercial.

John Marco Ceresi (7:44)

I did, I did.

Eric Williams (7:46)

And then you now are sitting here in front of me as a very successful stand up comedian. So would you say spending all of your dad's money at one on one was worth it?

John Marco Ceresi (7:54)

I don't know. I was such. I mean it's a brutal industry, it's terrible. And one on one people would get upset about it because it was like you pour your money into this thing. You meet with the casting directors, maybe they call you in the. You're not paying to audition, but yes you are. And they would have stories of people who saw them and then were brought in for this. And that would make you. Oh, there's a chance. So I, I wish when I had moved to New York I had focused more on cultivating a community than just trying to get in with casting directors. Because I got so little out of it. I ultimately did go, oh, commercials are where the responses are. That's where the opportunities are. Not anymore, by the way. My God, that vanished. But in the beginning commercials, especially before I joined sag, I made so much money and I just acted a lot more. Even if they were terrible projects. Acted in Investigation Discovery. That is the new Law and Order. Like people, the old trope is everyone in New York's been on Law and Order. Not anymore. I'd kill to be on Law and Order now.

Eric Williams (9:07)

Now it's Murders at the Museum, Murders at the Museum.

John Marco Ceresi (9:10)

Over my dead body. Stalked Recreation where you're doing like stories that people would win an Oscar for. They're so dramatic. And you're doing it in one take with. With no stunt supervisor and. And they air. I was, I was recognized from that in Ireland once and I was like, I got paid $50 to be in stocked and.

Eric Williams (9:32)

Well, that's the thing is. You said you made money doing commercials. I did. I did a bunch of non union commercials before the pandemic. And I was on. I had a full page in Vogue magazine. I was on.

John Marco Ceresi (9:42)

Right, I remember. What was the product again? I remember it.

Eric Williams (9:45)

Zell. When bank of America came up with Zelle to like send money and I thought I had made it and then I got the check and just Give me your guess as to how much I was paid to do. It was on billboards in every major city in the country, full pages in magazines. It ran on TV and social media. How much did it. I make non union.

John Marco Ceresi (10:04)

I'm thinking 500 for the shoot day, 250 buyout for the, the, the billboard in perpetuity. So I'm saying 2500.

Eric Williams (10:16)

I think I made either exactly 2500 or like 22.

John Marco Ceresi (10:20)

Crazy. Crazy.

Eric Williams (10:22)

Isn't that crazy? Because when you. I just saw the Amy Poehler Regina hall clip of like Regina saying I did a McDonald's commercial. And Amy goes, well, did you make a lot of money that could have made you a lot of money. And Regina was like, Yeah, I made 40, 30, $40,000. And then cut to me with this fucking story. Two grand.

John Marco Ceresi (10:38)

Yeah, it was, it was a bad time. And now a lot of the union stuff with the Internet usage rates, it's, it's gone down too. And, and I got very lucky. I was in this GE commercial. It was a series, they did two rounds. But the real money, because they don't air commercials the same way they, they used to back in the day. I'd have get a million bucks from it. But I got to do live appearances. And that was, that was at the time crazy money where they flew me to Las Vegas to the GE shareholders conference. I show up, I have a hammer. Cause I was in the commercial and they'd pay me $15,000 for the day. And I was like, holy shit. I really made the mistake. I spent a lot of it filming a sketch series. And I. Cause I thought, I remember like pizza. And I thought, you know, okay, it's only up from here. And it was, it was the most I made as an actor, hands down.

Eric Williams (11:32)

Hey y'. All. Mid episode interruption by your girl. I just want to tell you that I'm doing my show in LA on October 23rd, which is very, very soon. It is my solo show called why all the Drama? Which talks about me going from a nice Jewish boy to a gay Jewish slut. It is an hour of gay ass standup storytelling in a bit of broad way. So please come and see me at the Allegiant October 23rd at 7:30pm Tickets are in the description. I love you so much. And now keep on enjoying the gorgeous John Marco. Bye. Love you. Okay, well, I truly am going to get into some like silly horny and theatery questions, but I do want to quickly butter your biscuit and say that you have always hustled And I have always looked up to the fact that you are, like, know that you belong in the industry. You just had to figure out where it is. And you would not take no for an answer. And I think that is what we, as loud Jews, need to do. Just loud people. But we have.

John Marco Ceresi (12:31)

The Jews need to be more pushy. That's the lesson you should take away.

Eric Williams (12:34)

More pushy and more represented in Hollywood, I would say, personally. Now, Gianmarco, we have always aligned on the fact that we're both theater kids. You got a bachelor's in fine arts at the University of Miami in musical theater. I, too, studied theater in college. But I want to ask, from a straight man's perspective, you grew up wanting to do theater, but what does a straight man aspire to be? I wanted to be Sutton Foster as a young, closeted kid. What did you want to be?

John Marco Ceresi (13:03)

Like Hunter to a degree. I was definitely singing Hunter in Little Shop of Horrors. And you're in town, no doubt. I, I, I loved. I loved Hunter. I mean, when I was, like, in high school, it was like Adam Pascal. I wanted to be cool and rock and roll and. And if anyone had said to me, you're more of an Anthony Rap, I would dare you. I'm the cool rock and roll guy. But I do get that feeling of when I listen to women sing, whether it be like a Sutton Foster. Like, if I'm hearing Gimme, Gimme, I am imagining some mix of first person, third person, and I'm performing it not even, not even necessarily as a woman, but I'm performing it at that key. Singing.

Eric Williams (13:53)

You can feel where in your mask the belting note is coming from. And you can feel the vibrato coming from you, even if you're not wearing the character heels. Yes.

John Marco Ceresi (14:01)

If I could sing that, if I could sing like that, oh, I'd be a menace.

Eric Williams (14:06)

Well, inevitably, you're gonna get cast in some Broadway show. You're gonna have Liz, whatever her name is, as the vocal coach, and you are gonna be belting higher than you've ever belted before.

John Marco Ceresi (14:15)

We'll see. I'm taking voice lessons again because I have this new show thing I do called Theater Adult, where I sing and.

Eric Williams (14:21)

Oh, yeah.

John Marco Ceresi (14:21)

And, you know, I mean, the reason I stopped musical theaters, I wasn't, I wasn't a gifted singer, and I ran into walls and I, you know, a little ocd. I'd get so neurotic about the high notes, and I wanted to be a tenor, and it was torture.

Eric Williams (14:35)

It was torture.

John Marco Ceresi (14:36)

I mean, I quit singing before I quit acting, you know, to a degree. And now I'm returning to both being like, I'm remembering my limitations. I don't want to. I don't want to fall on my ass in front of a sold out crowd or so I'm. I.

Eric Williams (14:50)

Well, we came up during when Book. The. The sort of penta. Whatever the word is, the sort of like, pinnacle of Broadway was like Book of Mormon and you have to sing a crazy, crazy note every other second in that show. And I think that for people like us who are, what, just like baritone, naturally, what bartenders.

John Marco Ceresi (15:12)

What a torturous term. It's. It's. The thing you want to be is part of your name.

Eric Williams (15:17)

It's really devastating. But I too quit. I quit. So singing in musical theater, you got further though. You were.

John Marco Ceresi (15:23)

Listen, you should have seen my callback for Buddy the Elf. You got. You. You got there. You had a lead, you had a musical.

Eric Williams (15:32)

I did. See, that's the thing is I finished that show being like, I did it and I can't wait for my Broadway career. And then I did not book a single job for like nine months.

John Marco Ceresi (15:41)

But you have to hit a G in that big closing. What's the big number? What's this big happy number?

Eric Williams (15:46)

World's biggest, world's greatest.

John Marco Ceresi (15:47)

There's a G in that, right?

Eric Williams (15:48)

There's a G. Which. I get this. I had to audition and hit that G every. But then when I did the show, they're like, oh, yeah, we can move it down a full.

John Marco Ceresi (15:56)

An F. I'll hold it. I can do an F. I know. Any day.

Eric Williams (16:00)

The only problem is they make you sprint the entire song and then hold that F. And that makes it a little.

John Marco Ceresi (16:06)

I think that's really cool, though. I think that's really. And I don't know how it fit in my life again, but, like, to have to really done a full lead and danced, I mean, that's very cool. That's very cool.

Eric Williams (16:17)

I'm. You know what? I appreciate you saying that because my friends around me always just make fun of me when it comes up because it was my entire, entire personality when it happened, and how could it not be? But I'm also like, crazy ocd. This is the most embarrassing story, but it really mirrors your experience of just like being so in your head about your voice. During the tech rehearsals. I had just been in three weeks of rehearsals in New York. They flew us to North Dakota to do a full week of crazy long days. It was my first time doing a Lead in any show, really, at this level. And during a rehearsal, I get a hug in the scene, and the actor accidentally hit my, like, throat. No, like, accidentally, like, bumped my throat. And instead of me being a normal person, which is just like, you got bumped. Take a breath, Do a little vocal check. You're good. I started to spiral. That I had that I was ruined. And then as I'm spiraling, I remember I go to the choreographer. I was like, I just got hit in the throat. Do you think I'm okay? And she was like, yeah, you're fine. And I'm like, okay. I go onto stage. Eric, we need you on stage. Do a group number. And I start to have a panic attack. And I then start to feel tears. Come on. I run off the stage through the auditorium like I'm in fucking High School Musical 12. I then get to the lobby, and the fucking director and the choreographer had to watch me weep, having a panic attack about my throat and my voice.

John Marco Ceresi (17:34)

Wow. I, I.

Eric Williams (17:36)

And of course it was completely fine. It was completely fine.

John Marco Ceresi (17:38)

That's. That's so. I, I can relate to that 100%. I wonder if anyone's destroyed their voice just from a misplaced hug before. But I get it, I get it. The stress of it.

Eric Williams (17:51)

It's so much stress and so much pressure. And I think that we, when you talk about, like, wanting to build community instead of going for the casting director agent classes, I felt the same way. I felt like we were given no tools in our BFA programs to actually build a career. And so we were just sort of like, you know, taking swings and doing what we thought we should do to build a career. Now it feels really great to kind of have our own hands on our own paths. But speaking of paths, it would not be a gay ass podcast, Gianmarco, if I did not ask you the question, I ask our, which is, when it comes to the gays in your life, who was your first? We love John Marco, but John Marco also loves the gays.

John Marco Ceresi (18:29)

So who was he? I do. And I, I think I. The, the first that really comes to mind was I went to a private middle school that I wouldn't call it, like, it was once a Christian school back in the day, but it had loosened up and, and it's kind of shocking given today's political climate, but we had a, My, my fifth grade. One of the fifth grade homeroom teachers, I think he was a homeroom for fifth grade and sixth grade was named Mr. Breyer. And he was gay and he was, he Was openly gay. And I don't think he was married, but he. He definitely, like, he was the fun. Looking back, he was probably like 25, who knows? But, you know, when I was a kid, he was an adult and he was like the cool teacher. He was the one you wanted for math, you wanted for history, and two things. I remember there was one time, like, I was dancing before class, just being. Trying to get attention, and he said, jamarco, I date men, but that's the gayest thing I've ever seen. And it was like. It was this thing, this. And I remember not even at least the way we talked about it at this school. It wasn't even mean. It was funny. I wasn't, like, upset by it. It was just. It was. It was amusing. And I think, who knows if he thought I was a young gay kid and I'd come out of the closet someday. But he definitely, like, talked to me in a way that was. Was blunt and funny. And he did an assembly once because the teachers would do assemblies. And he did a very kind of surprisingly moving one where he talked about being a wrestling fan and no one in his life liked wrestling. But then he went to a professional wrestling match and to be surrounded by people who liked wrestling, how cool it was. And I found out through the grapevine, I think my mom, where she was like, oh, yeah, some of the parents were upset by the assembly because it was a metaphor for him being gay. And I was so dumb. I was like, oh, I thought it was just about wrestling, but I guess it was some version of him explaining, like, what it was to feel isolated as a. As a gay person. And so I look back and I had this incredibly. Not even progressive, but just people being open about who they were in a way that I feel like it definitely informed my views or made it seem so much more normal than I. Than I think from some people at that time, era of just having a gay adult who's your teacher.

Eric Williams (21:13)

Well, that. I think that's a big reason why gay rights was able to get more attention, was because more gay people were just being visible. And I think it's the whole thing about ignorance of, like, the reason. The reason why so many people are fighting trans people right now is just because they don't know any. And now they're just painting all these crazy pictures. But you had a Mr. Breyer who was making it not only normal, but just like, actually not a big deal at all. So I want to shout out, Mr. Breyer was great. Do you think he's he must be seeing all your stuff now. I'm curious.

John Marco Ceresi (21:47)

Yeah, he's definitely written me a couple times because I use his name in jokes now and then just as a teacher. And I've. I, you know, it was. It was weird. In middle school, I went through this phase because certainly when I was in middle school, there was no one who was. No students who were, like, gay or openly gay. And I went through this. I went through a strange phase where I don't really know what it was, where my version of being the class clown was. I would be, like, flirty with, like, guys in a way that the intended reaction was for them to be like, stop it. And I. But I would go to guy be like, hey, big fella. And I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was some like. Like, I. I was worried people would see me as feminine. So I was like, I'm going to lean into it in a comical way to almost deflect. But I don't. I don't remember that being a calculation. But I. I did this. I had this very conservative band teacher named Dr. Lewis and, you know, doctor of saxophone.

Eric Williams (22:50)

Sure.

John Marco Ceresi (22:50)

And we. I would. I would do this thing where, like, if there were dances, I would. I would go up to the guy, be, hey, save me a dance, Kevin. I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was, but I went to. I went to Dr. Lewis and I was like, hey, Dr. Lewis, save a dance for me. And that night, it was a Friday, I was at my dad's house, and the phone rang after the dance. It's like 10pm and I picked it up and it was Dr. Lewis. And he said, is your father there? And I was like, oh, no. And I gave the phone to my father. I think Dr. Lewis was like, it was incredibly inappropriate that your son asked me to a dance and my dad told him to go fuck himself because he's got his own. Which at the time I appreciated, but my dad's crazy. And then when I got to school the next week, Dr. Lewis was my advisor. We were past homeroom teachers and the. The principal or. Or someone, like, took me aside and said, hey, we're gonna. You don't have to go to this advisor. You're not in Trouble. But clearly, Dr. Like, clearly it upset Dr. Lewis in some way and.

Eric Williams (23:58)

Jesus Christ.

John Marco Ceresi (23:59)

So, you know, in a way, I. I got some experiences of. Of being the only gay kid in.

Eric Williams (24:08)

That.

John Marco Ceresi (24:09)

Of being gay. So yeah, that was. And then I went to a very progressive high school where, where there were more. There were open, way more open teachers.

Eric Williams (24:21)

Where you were fucking your teachers.

John Marco Ceresi (24:21)

Where was fucking my teachers. And I was lucky. I lived. I lived very. I just, you know, had it around me from a young age.

Eric Williams (24:31)

Well, it seems to be that you, even though your parents, you talk about your parents being crazy and about the early divorce and all that. I do like, give your dad props in that moment to say, go yourself on the phone. Because Dr. Lewis was clearly grappling with his own internalized either homophobia or just outright homophobia or like whatever the that.

John Marco Ceresi (24:50)

Or doctor the only thing I'll say in his favor, which definitely I do believe that I imagine if you're an adult, when a kid tells you like, hey, you want to dance? You're like, are you out of your fucking mind?

Ali Jackson (25:03)

You.

John Marco Ceresi (25:03)

You want to like, like, like you, like. All I know is this. It's like if I was a teacher, if I was an adult and a 12 year old started being like, hey, come. I'd be like, get away from me. This has nothing to do with homophobia. I'm just, I don't. This is a lot.

Eric Williams (25:21)

Yeah, you say, come on, Chuck, get out of here.

John Marco Ceresi (25:25)

And yeah, I think that's what you do.

Eric Williams (25:27)

I think that's.

John Marco Ceresi (25:27)

That's what you do.

Eric Williams (25:28)

You say, go get some punch. You don't go to Chuck's father. I found it. It's like, no, no, you found something within that troubled you. And you should talk about that with someone that's not the child's.

John Marco Ceresi (25:37)

Yes, I agree with that.

Eric Williams (25:40)

But you do seem to be someone who is allowed yourself to take up space, which maybe it's because of the straight, white manness of it all. But I want to ask because this new special, which I need to congratulate you on, Thief of Joy, is so divine and it deserves every ounce of praise it's gotten. But how has it been exploding in this way? And I use the word exploding very lightly because I know you've been hustling for all of these years, but with the social media of it all blowing up, with the special doing so well, what has it been like to get recognized now that you are out? Did you feel prepped for that when it happened or was there like a growing pain phase where you felt either an imposter syndrome or like you didn't deserve. How does a neurotic Jew deal with fame?

John Marco Ceresi (26:30)

It definitely. It was gradual. So I got a little bit of like, like, we we had a. We had a joke thing with. With my girlfriend where it be like, oh, someone recognizes me. She would keep, like, a little tally in her phone. And it was like, oh, I got recognized twice today. And then it got to a point where I was like. Like, it's not. It's not fun anymore. It's. It's. I've had. Recently, I think it was like, I. I had a gradual. Which is good, thank God. And then the way social media works is Then it's exponential. And. And suddenly I got to a place where I would be in stressful situations and getting recognized. And you go, oh, I see why people go crazy. I had, like, a friend was going through something really bad, and they're telling me this horrible thing, and I'm trying to be there for them as people are going like, hi, how are you? A big fan of your work. And you're, like, trying to silently be like, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. My friend, his whole family just killed themselves. And it's like, it's definitely surreal. There's moments where I'm stressed. I have a temper, and I don't yell at people, per se, but, like, if something's. If the train is. It doesn't come or whatever, I go, like. Like, I scream it to the sky. And. And there's been once or twice that I do that, and then someone goes, oh, my God, are you a comedian? And I said, no. I walk away. So.

Eric Williams (28:03)

Self preservation, babe.

John Marco Ceresi (28:04)

Self preservation. I. You know, I definitely got to a place where, like, I don't really do meet and greet stuff after the show because it just got to. It just got to be too much. Um, I. So I'm. I'm navigating it. I. I think I haven't really felt the imposter syndrome, only because I felt the gradualness of. I go to Raleigh, North Carolina, or Raleigh, wherever you say it for the first time ever. And, oh, 10 people came who knew me. Cool. And then the next year, it's like 50, and I felt the gradual nature of that, so I've grown more accustomed to it. Yeah, But I think the part that feels crazy is when you fly in somewhere. I'm in a bad mood. I'm stressed, I'm thinking about other things. And you go, and 600 people are there to see you loosely talk about some new jokes, and you're like. You're like, oh, did I con everyone in being here? Am I going to give them enough of a show? And, you know, haven't gotten complaints Yet. But that's, that's the weird part where you're doing your second show of the day, you're feeling like shit, something happened online, and all you want to do is be on Twitter doom scrolling and you're still doing an hour of material and you're like, I don't feel in my body. I hope they're getting the show that they wanted.

Eric Williams (29:29)

You know, not to bring up Buddy the Elf again, but the amount of times that I would be like, oh my God, I have to put on green tights in an orange wig and scream, sparkle, jolly, twinkle, jingly. And I just had a giant fight with my boyfriend. Yes, like that.

John Marco Ceresi (29:46)

It's brutal. Like, fights before shows are brutal. And I would say to my girlfriend, I would say, like, I'd be like, baby, we cannot get into an argument like right before a show. But then the problem is you perform every night and so you're essentially saying to your partner is, hey, no disagreements past five. And it doesn't work.

Eric Williams (30:06)

Well, let me tell you, speaking of having a partner, because you have it extra special because your partner, Tova is a very successful manager who works in the industry. So I can only imagine the balance you need. I'm not going to sugarcoat it here. I've been with Matt for 12 years and a lot of our couples therapy in the past year was me and him trying to figure out how we can find balance, with me talking about it because I obsess about it. How could. There's no way to be in this industry without being obsessive. But how do I balance being present with him, me vying for his support and validation? I had to do a lot of work to realize that the validation had to come from myself instead of him, which was my own mommy and daddy issues. And so it's. I've talked about a lot of like dark times recently, but I haven't been too specific. And a big part of it is my own self esteem and validation that I've had to get from myself. And only in the past literal few weeks to months have I had these epiphanies of like, no matter what happens in my career, I'm not going to feel better. No matter what Matt says, I'm not.

John Marco Ceresi (31:13)

Going to feel better.

Eric Williams (31:14)

And it's like a huge mind fucker because I do have the imposter syndrome and I do have the demons of like, you know, being told I was too gay and too blah, blah, blah, blah. And so like, it's, I can only imagine what it is for you and balancing that with.

John Marco Ceresi (31:26)

With sofa, it's brutal. I mean, standup is so. And I've gotten better, but then things get more stre. And is like, I used to joke when Tova would watch me do a set, and it's like, how stressful it is for her, knowing that however that set goes is going to determine what kind of mood I'm in for the rest of the night. And. And now she's. She's my manager. She's been my manager for a little bit over a month. And that adds a whole new layer that we're exploring. You know, we. We have couples counseling, too. And it's like, thank God, because now there's this nuance of, like, I do the Tonight show, and I want to feel like, you know, I want it to be my day, my celebration. Now, Tova, she, first of all, she also got me the Tonight show, so. So it's an accomplishment for her. It's an accomplishment that we share. But I'm used to, or I want in specific moments to be king of the world. I'm the most important person there mixed with. She's been working all day and wants to feel validated for the work that she's done. And we. We've been navigating, you know, we. We have two text chains now, and we're like, this one's personal, this one's business. Were. We're. But it's very. It's so. And it feels very natural in a lot of ways because she was. She was always my creative feedback. I call her my muse, but she's also, you know, an editor and just a lot of things. And, you know, it makes sense, us working together, but at the same time, she doesn't want to get swallowed up by it. I have to have my own lines. I have to say to myself, oh, that little bit of insecurity. I don't need to ask am I funny, though? Like, I gotta. And I've gotten better, but it's, you know, it's. It's an endless well of need and. And it's tough.

Eric Williams (33:24)

Need. Need. I was. We had a. I was.

John Marco Ceresi (33:27)

I was just thinking, like, like the thing that your parents can't. The way that you can never replace your parents is like any relationship, you have to give and take. Sometimes with parents, they can give, and your existence is. Is what they get back. You know, you're. You're their offspring. Just you, just you. Succeeding brings a pride and a feeling of joy that no one else is going to take someone else. You need to give them more. A parent is one of those few relationships that, like your existence feeds the relationship so it can be imbalanced. And as you get older, you might have to readjust. But a partner is always going to need a balance. And it will never be that pure. Pure, you know, it's just different. You'll never recreate it.

Eric Williams (34:21)

Oh. I've been asking Matt subconsciously to parent me for a very long time. And again, I've recently realized that I need to parent myself. The therapist. That's something that really resonated with me. I have to be my own, like, kindergarten teacher. Firm, but really warm and encouraging. Like, like. And that does not have to be Matt. That does not have to be anything. That doesn't have to be like, cocaine or ketamine. That's my own work inside. But I think it. I think it makes so much sense that you and Tova are doing the work to keep it in perspective, because that's why you've been able to grow this career. It's because you've, like, kept yourself in check. And speaking of your career, I think it would be against my gay religion to ask you about your hustler's co star, j.lo. gianmarco. Jlo is vying for another Oscar in Kiss of the Spider Woman. Do you think your previous on screen colleague is gonna get the statuette?

John Marco Ceresi (35:20)

Well, listen, I have to support it because I would love to have one line in Kiss of the Spider Woman as well. I played man in glasses in Hustlers, and I think he could fit into the world of Kiss of the Spider Woman. I do think it's one of those things where musical theater is its own art form. And, like, just visiting it like, it's. Ha. It's worked before. Chicago was good, but. But it's. It's. It's tough. I'm a little. I'm a little feeling cooled off because I did while on acid, though not enough. Watch J. Lo's. What was the long music video movie she made? This is me now.

Eric Williams (36:11)

Watch it.

John Marco Ceresi (36:12)

It was. It was. It was pretty. It was the most expensive disaster I think I've ever seen in my life.

Eric Williams (36:21)

And what was that backstage interview of some actress being like, why am I here?

John Marco Ceresi (36:28)

Yeah, it was like. It was a weird. It was just one of those things where you go as an artist. All you want is to have everyone say yes to what you. You know, I want to do this. Yes. I want it to cost this chore. And you see that without restrictions, every artist fails every artist Whether it's Megalopolis and Francis ford Coppola or JLo's music video, like there is something about things, you know, confines that allow you to, to, to frame the work better. And, and that was a. Just brutal.

Eric Williams (37:04)

Well, you know what I'm nervous about is the Wicked sequel. The Wicked Part 2 for Good has two new songs in it. And I don't, I don't want to brag too much, but I did go to the filming, the, the filming last night of Wicked. One wonderful night. Last night they, they shot a special to celebrate the new movie coming out. And it's basically Cynthia Rivo, Ariana Grande performing a bunch of songs. Bow and Yang, Ethan Slater is there. Marissa Bod, who plays Nessa?

John Marco Ceresi (37:36)

Jeff Goldblum.

Eric Williams (37:37)

Goldblum plays.

John Marco Ceresi (37:39)

I like how you pointed to me like, like you, Jeff Goldblum. You know, you, you know Jeff.

Eric Williams (37:44)

I have this weird thing with Jeff Goldblum where I'm always like, am I saying his name wrong? No, it's Jeff. It's a spelled differently. But I. They did not sing the new songs last night. And I am very worried that Stephen Schwartz.

John Marco Ceresi (37:59)

No, you're right.

Eric Williams (38:00)

Is gonna fuck it up for these new songs.

John Marco Ceresi (38:02)

It's, it's, it's true. It's just like when has a new song in a movie that was classic? Like, when has the new song been like, oh, wow, this should have been in the original.

Eric Williams (38:13)

I mean, Wicked's been on Broadway for how many years?

John Marco Ceresi (38:15)

It's, it's, I mean, forever. 20. Over 20. I mean, had the 20th anniversary over.

Eric Williams (38:19)

20 years and now we're getting new songs. I'm just very, I'm just very.

John Marco Ceresi (38:23)

And you know, you know that the new song was, it wasn't like, okay, how does this add to the script? It was like Ariana could sing this as a pop version. This could break into the, the top 20. And it's, it's not going to be good. I'm nervous. I was so shocked as to how much I liked the first movie. I truly, I went into it with low expectations. I thought it was great. I don't think this second act, I don't think it has, I don't think it has enough bangers to see it through. I don't think the new songs are going to be good. And I think it's like, at least in the musical, that's where the world starts breaking apart. And it's still good enough. I still like. I saw it live recently. I had a friend who was playing Nessa. Yeah, she Was in it for a year. Natalie Ortega, she was great. But I'm nervous about this movie and they're gonna try to beef it up with these two new songs. And didn't Cynthia Erivo say she like, helped with one?

Eric Williams (39:25)

Oh, I think she did. I think she did.

John Marco Ceresi (39:27)

And I was like, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Not one bit.

Eric Williams (39:31)

Well, that's, that's the crazy thing about Artist's Tree, I think, is that certain people have certain skills. And I think Cynthia Erivo is by far, far one of our best performers when it comes to interpreting a song in terms of like the athleticism of being able to sing. Do I think that she is like a comedy performer?

John Marco Ceresi (39:51)

Sure do.

Eric Williams (39:52)

I like when she hosted the Tonys were the best parts of her launching a, a punchline. It wasn't. The best parts were her belting her. Her tits off. And God bless, is she a songwriter where it's yet to be.

John Marco Ceresi (40:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Williams (40:07)

Foretold. And I hope that, I hope that the second movie also really impresses us because the first was those, I mean, those Broadway performers.

John Marco Ceresi (40:19)

I, I want to talk to more of them about like, because there's so many tried to get a singing career, like, you know, a full. And it's. And I'm trying to think, were there any that were like, truly successful? Because it's just one of those things.

Eric Williams (40:34)

Where it's been a while.

John Marco Ceresi (40:36)

I'm a stand up comedian at my heart. They're gonna try to put me in movies. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But stand up is where I'm like, this is, this is my bag. This is my lane. And unfortunately with musical theater, I think it's. It's a rough and tumble life to just do musicals for your whole life. They've done it. You know, Patty's been doing it, Audra's been doing it. But I'm sure that pop career looks a little like, ooh, some real money.

Eric Williams (41:05)

Ooh.

John Marco Ceresi (41:05)

But it's hard. Just because you're good at musicals doesn't mean you can do the, the pop thing for the same reason that I wouldn't necessarily want to see Sabrina Carpenter in as Glinda, you know.

Eric Williams (41:15)

Well, it's way more tried and true, I think, to go from Broadway to TV and film because Audra was on what the Good Fight and so she made her bag from that. Patty's done a million things. So like. But I do think the pop of it all, like what Bette Midler back In the day was able to have some big songs. Babs, of course, huge. But besides, like, I don't see, like, Ariana DeBose becoming a charter, you know, Like, I don't. I don't see that for her. I just gonna take a quick right turn because I wanted to make sure to ask about your big, hairy tits, if that's okay. You. I've known you for many years, and you've always been a tall, hot, hairy man. But the tits came in recently. Was your decision to work out based on. Oh, more people follow me. And so I want them to get a. Just look at something more delicious and meaty. Was it. I have the money to have a trainer. Was it Jay Jordan just taking you, beating you up in an alley? Why did you decide to get to.

John Marco Ceresi (42:21)

I think I. I always wanted to be in shape, of course. And I was so unathletic and so uninspired to work out and. And uncoordinated. And then in college, I did P90X. And then when I was in New York, I would, like, do moves at Planet Fitness and I would, you know, my arms got really good. But everything else was. Was, you know, you gotta have a. At least I needed a trainer to be like, let's bend those knees a little. Let's do some bench press a little. So like, I could do the arm moves, though. Those were easy. And. And, yeah, I think like, three years ago, I got a trainer. I was always doing yoga and spin, but finally getting a trainer just helped focus me on, honestly, sometimes doing easier workouts, but, like, more focused. And then I started intermittent fasting, which changed my life. And I'm a big.

Eric Williams (43:17)

Tell me.

John Marco Ceresi (43:18)

I was in Australia. I've always eaten, like, quote, unquote healthy, but sometimes, like, like, my girlfriend would be like, you know, eating a hundred almonds is actually worse than if you had one slice of cake. And I was like, what? I never. I never looked at calories. I never thought about it. I was just like, almonds are healthy. They're. They're unsalted too.

Eric Williams (43:37)

And.

John Marco Ceresi (43:37)

And I never ate dessert, but I just ate a lot. And then I was in Australia and I had a tour manager, sort of, and he was taking me out to these dinners every night, and they were incredible restaurants. I was in Australia for the first time, and I was like, I want to pig out. I don't want to think, I want to drink. I want to. And so I was just. I knew about intermittent fasting. It seemed impossible, but I was like, I want these meals. I Don't want to come back from this trip feeling like, ugh, now like I put on a bunch of weight. So I just, I started eight hour window of eating 16 hours off. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty religious about it. I try to break it once a week for my own sanity. But now what does that mean?

Eric Williams (44:17)

Then you eat dinner and then you don't eat before?

John Marco Ceresi (44:19)

No, I basically eat. I, I start like, let's say I have my first meal at noon and then I have my last meal. I'm done before eight. So it's just eight hours on and then I don't. Because I was a big snacker, I was a big grazer and, and I would just constantly be eating nuts or carrots or whatever. And it lets me, especially when I travel, I'm on the road so fucking much and one of the few joys I can have is just eating nice meals. So I can kind of eat more or less whatever I want within that window. I take it off otherwise and then I break it once a week if I want to get drunk. And it really transformed, transformed. Like I've always gradually been more and more in shape but, but that transformed my body and, and then yeah, you know, of course it helps to be in a industry where if I'm wearing a tank top, there's a lot of comments and, and surely some people are coming out just because I'm getting in better shape and I go, fine, it's a little more reinforcement. Feels nice and yeah, it feels sustainable for now.

Eric Williams (45:27)

Well, I was, I'm asking because I myself am newly on a get tit journey and I think that you are an inspiration and I want to try to show as much skin as you've been showing.

John Marco Ceresi (45:39)

It's, it's fun on. It's fun. You will listen when you have a Fire island date and you're going to be next to Jay Jardin in a Speedo. You lock in you go. No more lattes, black coffee for the next couple of weeks.

Eric Williams (45:52)

Yeah, well, it's paying off and I think since we only have a few minutes left, I want to do a few quick fire questions that our gay listeners, which I'll just say our listeners would like to know about. Gianmarco Ceresi. You wear a Fosse shirt in your special Thief of Joy. What is the gayest musical that you love?

John Marco Ceresi (46:09)

Falsettos. And it's my favorite musical. It's my favorite musical which is very gay.

Eric Williams (46:14)

Not only is it about queer love, but also Ace, it Is.

John Marco Ceresi (46:17)

It is. And I think. And a weird, weird way I relate to Marvin and his narcissism. There's something about wanting it all. I mean, that's a song. I want it all. And I listen to it at a pivotal time in my life. I think it's. It's very Jewish in a way that I wasn't. Honestly wasn't even raised, but I think, like, my mom, you know, culturally Jewish. And something about that musical resonated. The complaining, the negativity, the bickering, and it just like, man, I love that show so goddamn much. It's. It's deep in my subconscious.

Eric Williams (46:48)

I love that show too. I got to see the revival 10 out of 10. But you brought up the word narcissist. Do you ever worry that you're a narcissist?

John Marco Ceresi (46:56)

Oh, I know I'm a narcissist. And I think it's just important to, like, ask yourself, okay, how do I balance this? This is my tendency. I. I try to catch myself in conversation. Oh, I'm only talking about myself. Especially as you, like, you get busy with work stuff. You. You just. You could talk about this happening. You got a lot to share, and you gotta. So I. I try to work on that, because in this industry, you all talk with someone more narcissistic than me, and I go, this was a tough. This was a tough chat, so I gotta not be this someday.

Eric Williams (47:31)

I think it's a bit controversial for. Narcissist is a word that is so weaponized lately. And I feel like it is a bit controversial for someone to say, I am one. And I just keep it in check. I think that's.

John Marco Ceresi (47:42)

You have to acknowledge your tendencies, certainly.

Eric Williams (47:45)

Because I'm a Chatty Cathy too. I've never gone as far to say that I'm a narcissist. But you know who would say that about me? My husband. He. He hasn't. To his credit, he has. But if I were to ask him, he would go, that's what he would do.

John Marco Ceresi (48:00)

We got to watch it. We got to know who we are.

Eric Williams (48:02)

Oh, and I really do try, but I think you are a reminder from the universe to ask about someone else. A question. Okay. Who do you think is gayer? Christian Borrell or Hugh Jackman?

John Marco Ceresi (48:14)

I mean, I think Hugh Jackman simply in that he has. He has. He has male lovers, so I'm told. I. I would.

Eric Williams (48:26)

I've not. I haven't heard any confirmations or otherwise. I have.

John Marco Ceresi (48:30)

I've heard. I've heard. I've heard Enough that I go, I haven't heard anything about Kristen Borrell. In fact, Kristen Borrell didn't. He. He cheated on his wife with another woman.

Eric Williams (48:41)

He cheated on son. He cheated on son Foster with Laura Bel Bundy.

John Marco Ceresi (48:44)

Yeah. Yeah. But certainly the fact that you're right that she went from him to Hugh might. Might share a thread. I know there were. There were musical theater camps. This happened twice to me where there was like, a girl I had a crush on and I competed with another guy. We both liked her, and she liked us both. And both times, both those guys are now fully homosexual. And so I go, whatever woman is attracted to certain aspects of me, you know, it's. It's on the line. It's. It's on the line. We clearly have traits in common, and it's happened twice. And I want to go back in time and be like, hey, brother, could you let me have this one? Like, come on. Why? What are you competing with me? You don't want this.

Eric Williams (49:33)

Well, that brings my final quick fire. Before we do the actual last podcast question, it would be not okay for me to not ask about butt stuff. Finger or tongue in the hole. What's your political opinion?

John Marco Ceresi (49:46)

This is. This is to me, someone to me.

Eric Williams (49:49)

To you.

John Marco Ceresi (49:49)

Being done to you. A finger for sure. I can't. I have yet to get over the feeling of like, oh, you don't have to do that.

Ali Jackson (50:02)

It's.

John Marco Ceresi (50:02)

It's nice for sure, the sensation. But I think I'm still overwhelmed with a feeling of like, oh, that's. That's so sweet of you to offer, but, like, I don't want to make you. I don't want to make you do that. I think if I was. If I was paying for a service and I felt like, yeah, you earned that 20 bucks, great. Or more. I tip.

Ali Jackson (50:28)

I tip.

John Marco Ceresi (50:28)

If that's all they were charging, but.

Eric Williams (50:32)

You'Ll tip 20% on the $20.

John Marco Ceresi (50:33)

But. But I think, yeah, no, that makes sense.

Eric Williams (50:36)

Your people pleasing gets in the way of you.

John Marco Ceresi (50:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Finger. I go like, okay, and. And I'll.

Eric Williams (50:40)

We can kiss whilst I ride your knuckle. Well, listen, John Marco, it has been a goddamn tree interviewing my first straight guy.

John Marco Ceresi (50:51)

I'm so honored. I truly, I feel flattered. So thank you.

Eric Williams (50:55)

I. It's my absolute pleasure. And I want to round out this gay ass podcast interview with our final question, which is, if the world was ending, you could only save one character actress.

John Marco Ceresi (51:08)

Who would you save? Julianne Moore. Right, right. Right away. I. My. My dad had a lot of like ex girlfriends, ex wives. And I just feel like Julianne like all of them. I could see her playing each one of them. That, that's the play just for me. It would be Julianne Moore recreating all the, the former stepmom figures in my life.

Eric Williams (51:36)

Is it because all of your stepmoms had a certain like, vulnerability but also like harsh harshness to them? Yes, I think Julianne Moore is a perfect answer. And she's one of the few character actresses that has given us so many, many, many great films, but has a lot more left in her career. I think she is only starting.

John Marco Ceresi (51:58)

She's, she's a Meryl Streep of our time. I once read something up. It was some, some actor just being like, not that it wasn't taking any points away from Meryl Streep, but it was about the way that like it, she had been seen as like the greatest actress of, of all time. And it was like, no, there's a lot. It's just kind of like a thing of like this is the greatest. And Julianne Moore is certainly, certainly one of the legends of our time.

Eric Williams (52:24)

Did you see May December a couple years ago?

John Marco Ceresi (52:26)

Oh, of course. It was astounding.

Eric Williams (52:28)

Oh my God, astounding. And I mean, talk about like a motherfest of Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman. I just, I think that, and also just Julianne Moore has been in so many movies that have like, I don't know, queer undertones. And there's a reason why the gays listening are going to love you for that answer more than they even love you now. John Marcos Cerezi, congratulations on the new special. For anybody who hasn't yet seen it, it is streaming on YouTube. It's gotten rave reviews. It's linked in the description. But besides that, can you tell our listeners where to follow you and anything else you would like for them to know?

John Marco Ceresi (53:03)

Yes. I'm touring all around North America for this year. You can find all the dates on, on my social media. It's at John Marco Cerese and I have a podcast called the Downside where I've guests on to complain about their lives. So check it out.

Eric Williams (53:18)

And by the way, John Marco's co host on that podcast is the insanely talented Russell Daniels who I got to see in Ginger Twinsies and Titanique and I haven't really met him, but John Marco, tell him I'm a huge fan and I'm a huge fan of both of yours and that podcast is great.

John Marco Ceresi (53:34)

Another, another straight guy. We're both straight guys that that have you know we are thankful for being in our spaces. Russell has played many a women off.

Eric Williams (53:44)

Broadway, Gianmarco, stay straight but also a little bit gay and God bless you.

John Marco Ceresi (53:48)

Thank you.

Eric Williams (53:49)

Eric, thanks for joining me on that's a Gay Ass Podcast with our first ever straight guy guest. I also want to thank John Marco for letting me grill him with all my gay ass questions. And tell me, be honest, did you like having a straight guy on the pod? I might make that the new thing. Interview straight guys and make them uncomfortable with gay ass questions. But if you want to be comfortable yourself and a little hornty, go to Substack for this week's bonus episode with Paul Schwenson. You probably follow him on TikTok or Instagram. He's a gorgeous blondie Broadway baby who played Fiyero in the Wicked tour. He was in Book of Mormon on Broadway and he talks about meeting his civilian boyfriend while on tour. That is@substack.com Eric Wills and you'll see a lot more bonus episodes there and watch me go live from time to time. Oh, before I forget, I'm doing my solo show at the Elysian in LA on October 23, which is very soon. So please get your tickets and I hope to see you there. Stay gay my friends. I love ya.

Ali Jackson (55:00)

Bye.

Eric Williams (55:01)

You've been listening to that's a Gay Ass Podcast hosted by me, Eric Williams. If you want to see and hear more, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and follow the Instagram a podcast for more gay assery. The Real girlies are over on Substack, where you get bonus episodes every single week and live chats with me and other gay assets guests. That's a Gay Ass Podcast is executive produced by Eric Williams and Produced by Nathaniel McClure. We'll see you next week.

Ali Jackson (55:35)

If you're a podcast host, listen up. This one's for you. My name is Ali Jackson. I'm the host of Finding Mr. Height, a dating and relationship podcast that I've been doing for four years now, sharing my positive and practical approach to dating that's built on my own life experience. And I wanted to share another experience that I've had my secret behind monetizing my show. It's called Red Circle, and I was just telling my colleague about how much I love their platform. With Red Circle, not only am I getting a seamless hosting experience, but I also love the support I receive in ad sales. It's not just typical ad sales either, it's targeted opportunities based on my show and my life. And the platform is super simple. You just set your preferences and Red Circle matches you with sponsors that align with your show. You can vet every opportunity and their platform gives you great analytics. More recently too, my Red Circle team has brought me opportunities outside of my podcast on social media to really augment the podcast partnerships. Bring them full circle. I just can't recommend them enough. If you want to get give it a try. Go to redcircle.com to get your free trial. That's redcircle.com for a free trial.