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The $100 MBA Show
How To Get Consistent Leads, Customers & Referrals Without Burning Out
00:44:00
Feeling like you have to be everywhere all the time just to get a few leads can wear you down fast. When you’re posting, testing, pushing, and still not seeing steady customers or referrals come in, it starts to feel frustrating and personal.
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Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand.
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It starts with our approach.
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Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety
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around you, more focused on the road
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ahead and ready before problems ever start.
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Mazda More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product.
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You know that feeling when there's a spark building inside of you that you were meant for more? That's your own drive pushing you towards what's next. Capell University gets that with their flexpath learning format. You can set the pace and earn your degree without putting your life on pause. You've built experience and you know what you're capable of now. This is your time to turn that momentum into more. The only real question is what can't you do? Learn more at Capella Edu how how do you get consistent leads, customers and referrals without burning out? Without sending yourself into the hospital? This is the number one question I get asked via email from our subscribers. If you've ever posted on social media and never heard anything back, if you tried a new hundred million dollar marketing tactic and got zero results or felt like getting customers is some sort of dark art, this episode is for you. And I know exactly how this feels. Because when I was growing our software company, Webinar Ninja, I was the head of marketing. I had the responsibility of making sure we had a consistent way of getting customers. Why? Because I had the ambition of selling this company one day. And if my referrals are all based on who I am, this is not gonna work. It's not sustainable. I can't hand that over to somebody. So I'm gonna share with you the exact system that I built to get consistent leads, customers and referrals. That has nothing to do with dancing on TikTok. What we're gonna is that getting these leads, getting these customers is not an art. It's actually a science. It's a system. And today I'm going to give you the exact framework that makes growth predictable whether it's 2026 or 2030, whether Facebook ads die or SEO changes or AI rewrites the rules all over again. This framework works because it's built on how human beings actually make decisions. And the best part of that? That doesn't change. Welcome Back to the $100 MBA Show. I'm your host Omar Zenholm, where I deliver practical business lessons three times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday to help you start, grow and Scale your business. If this show has helped in any way, it would be amazing if you could drop us a quick review on whatever app you're using to listen to this podcast right now. It helps me and my team bring new episodes every week. And more importantly, more entrepreneurs will be able to discover our podcast so you can help someone else start their journey. Thanks so much. Today's Q and A Wednesday, and I have my co founder, the executive producer of this podcast, and the person who keeps this show running on time. Nicole Baldun is in the building. Welcome, Nicole.
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Happy to be here, Omar. I love the questions that we get. They take me back to different stages in our business journey. And I, I remember actually having a lot of these questions myself.
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Not only is Nicole here to serve up the question, she's here to keep me honest throughout the conversation. So, Nicole, take it away.
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A
Yes, that's why I'm here to ask Omar the questions that you would be asking if you were sitting right next to him. Today's question comes from Joseph. Joseph asks, I feel like I'm always chasing leads but never getting anywhere. I try different things, but nothing sticks and I'm exhausted. Is there a system that actually works consistently?
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B
Yeah, that question really floods my inbox. And it's for good reason. It's because underneath every business problem that I see, there is this concept of like, I don't have enough customers. I don't know where they are, I don't know how to get them. So if we solve this problem, your business becomes a whole lot easier. Now, the problem is, is that most people think the solution is a tactic, right? They think it's some sort of hack that they have to do in order for them to get more customers. And it's not a tactic, it's not a hack. What you need to do is build a framework, a consistent system that allows customers to learn about you, understand what the value that you offer, be convinced this value is good enough for them so they can part with their money, become customers, and be happy enough customers to refer new customers to you. So the framework that I'm going to give you today consists of four buckets. And every single customer acquisition activity falls into one of these buckets. When all four of these work together, it's like magic. But the problem is that if one of them doesn't work, then the whole system doesn't work. So if your business is stalling out and you feel like you can't get consistent leads or customers or referrals, it feels exhausting. You feel like you're spinning your wheels. You're chasing a ghost. So the framework I'm about to give you stops all that in its tracks. The framework is called Cash C, A, S, H. Create attention. Attract interest, Sell and serve and harnessed referrals. So let's go through each one. The first one is C, the letter C. Create attention. Now, a lot of people understand the principle of this pretty simple. Like, people need to know about you in order for them to find you, in order for them to buy from you. But it's a little bit broader than that, and I want to give you some specifics to help you along the way. When I say create attention, I really should be saying creating attention because this is something you have to consistently do. You can't just do it once and then just hope people saw your post, okay? This is something that has to happen over and over and over on a daily basis. You can't just create something great and wait for people to find it just because you said, hey, I launched this product and go ahead and buy. Here's the link. This is something that you have to communicate over and over, not only in social media, not only on email, but it has to become your identity. It has become who you are. And I'll share some stories today about what this means. But the whole point of creating attention is understanding that people are busy. Okay? People don't have a lot of time. They're worried about their own problems, their own worries. They gotta go to work, they gotta pay the bills. They got the kids, they got the dog barking in the background. There's a lot going on, right? So you need to remind them of you every single day. Creating attention means deliberately putting yourself in front of the right people through one of seven channels. Now, before I go into the seven channels, I want to, like, highlight with a highlighter that's neon that's burning your eyes. This part of that sentence, okay? Deliberately putting yourself in front of the right people. Not everybody, okay? You know, a lot of people, when they have a new business, a new product, a new service, they like to present it to maybe their mom, maybe their sister, maybe their friends. Are they your ideal customer? Are they looking for your solution? If not, what they think is not really important. And you really don't need to show them what you have or try to get their attention because they're not your ideal customer. So the point here is, is that a lot of people feel like this is a lot of work because I got to tell the world about my products and services. No, you only need to tell the people that need what you have. And this applies to all seven of those channels, like I talked about. Content, paid ads, partnerships, direct outreach, events, communities, and referrals.
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A
Okay, Omar, I totally hear you on all that, but someone listening might think, okay, seven channels, that sounds like a lot. So maybe, where does someone actually start?
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Great question. And this is where most people make a critical mistake. They try all seven at once. And the thing is that when you spread yourself thin, you don't really do well anywhere. Okay. You basically achieve 20% of the results you should have because you're spreading yourself against maybe five or six different platforms. You're posting content, you're running ads, you're doing events, you're doing outreach, all at the same time. Now, what I believe works is that you have to go all in on one channel, get some wins, master that channel, have some traction before you move on to another channel.
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I remember we made that conscious decision very early on because you do feel like you have to be across every single channel. And when we decided to focus on one channel, I remember you saying, we have to really put our efforts into one channel and give it a go for a good consistent amount of time. How much time would you say?
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I would say minimum 90 days. And it depends on how fast you can get traction. Some platforms, you can get traction pretty quickly and some not so much. You know, like, for example, YouTube takes quite some time. You know, it took us about 400 videos on YouTube to start seeing what's working. So you have to really understand that you need to commit to this. You need to commit to the channel. You need to go all in minimum 90 days. And this is. If you're doing it full time, you're doing a part time, you may want to stretch that out to maybe, you know, more. Four, five, six months. The point here is that you really want to make sure that you are seeing value, you're getting return on your investment, and something's actually happening. You're getting some wins with that channel.
- [09:18]
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Yeah, because in some ways, that fear of, like, oh, I'm not across every single channel, makes you a little bit anxious. But at the same time, it's also a relief because once we focused, that made all the difference. It was just noise for that. But as soon as we started to focus, we really saw different results.
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B
Yeah. And here's an exercise I would give anyone that just starting out. Okay, three questions you need to ask. Where does my ideal customer already spend their time? Where are they? What websites are they visiting? What platforms are they on? What are they consuming? What kind of information are they consuming? The next question is, which channel plays to my strengths? Okay, so for example, I love to teach. I've been teaching all my life. So what channels really work for me as a teacher? Well, channels that really are about video. So I am going all in on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. I'm not so big at X because I can't really flex my teaching muscles on X as much because it's not really video first. And the third question you ask yourself when you're getting started is which channel can I commit to for 90 days without abandoning it? So, for example, one channel could be content. Like posting on TikTok is one of the channels, which is content. Maybe you want to use ads as a channel. Maybe you want to run an event. That's a channel. So choose one channel for 90 days without abandoning it, without being inconsistent. You know, one of the things that we talked about back in the day when we were teachers, I used to teach classroom management. And one of the things I used to ask teachers, you know, as I was training them, are you consistent in the classroom? And they would say, I'm consistent. Sometimes there's no such thing. You're inconsistent, then you're either consistent or you're not. So don't break promises to yourself. Be consistent for 90 days at least when you're getting started in that channel,
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give it a red hot go. That's another way.
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Yeah, we often describe it, but keep it hot for 90 days.
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Okay, so that was C. What's the next letter?
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Well, we're spelling cash. So the next letter is a. Attract interest. Okay, Attract interest is an interesting one because most people just forget about this. They just get attention, right? And they don't understand that you got to keep people's attention. You got to keep them interested. So, for example, they get someone to look at their content, to look at their ad or their website, for example, and then they immediately start talking about themselves. Okay, look at all the accolades I have. Look at all the things I've done. This is my backstory. This is a snooze fest, okay? Why? Because people in general, whether we want to admit or not, are selfish, okay? We care about what's in it. For me, if I go to a website, if I don't immediately understand what this product does, I'm out there. I'm out. Forget it. This is wasting my time. I'm going to go and do something else. So you have to talk to the customer. You have to talk to your audience in a way they understand. Hey, I got your bag. This is what I can do for you. These are the problems I can solve for you through my products, through my services, and give examples, give context, show them a case study. Show them what happens. What's the after picture of working with you?
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I agree with you, and it's true. People do care about themselves more than they care about the person. But how does that fit into the idea that people are told to lead with their personal brand, to lead with their story?
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I strongly disagree with that. And the reason why is that I don't think you should lead with it. You should have a story, you should have a brand. But the first question you have to answer is, what I can do for you, Right? What is in it for the person that's on my website, that's watching my Instagram reels, that are consuming my content, is consuming the ads, whatever it might be, they really want to understand it. Like, is this something I need to pay attention to? Do I need to be interested in this? Once you have their interest, when they understand, like, okay, this person's valuable, oh, actually, I really like what they're putting out there. I want to learn more about this person. This is where your brand comes in. This is where your story really matters, where you can start talking about your credibility and the awards you won and the mentions and all that kind of stuff. But in the beginning, they don't really know who you are. They really want to understand, like, what you can do for me.
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A
Do you have any examples, though, in terms of messaging that works in that regard, where it is more about the customer and the person?
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B
Yeah, this podcast.
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A
Yeah. Give some examples.
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I think this will be helpful if you want to do a little deep research. You can just go back to any of my episodes that I've taught on this podcast, over 2,800 episodes. And you can look at the beginning of the episode. And I often try to give as much value as possible in the beginning. I show you what you're going to get in this episode. At the end of this episode, you will learn this. This is the outcome. And then once you understand that in the stories I share and give the examples, I give you a bit of authority. I share the stories of building the businesses that we built. You know, the fact that we, you know, grew our software company, got acquired, you know, how much revenue we've made over the years. This then tells them, okay, this person's worth listening to. I got some value in the beginning. I trust them now I want some more so I can't really talk about myself without first giving first. It's just like any relationship. Like if you meet somebody for the first time, you want to learn more about them, you want to help them out, you want to make sure that they feel like they're being heard. Once they get that, then they're like, okay, tell me about you.
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Sometimes it's as simple as a few language and words. A few shifts in language like I think we talk about often. So you can putting you in the language in the copy versus I in the copy. I like that it can be as simple as that, right?
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B
Yeah.
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When it comes to messaging, 100% cool
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today's episode is sponsored by IXL. Summer is a great opportunity for kids to review challenging concepts, strengthen core skills, and head into the fall feeling more prepared. Iexcel is an award winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're building math confidence, strengthening reading and writing skills, or reviewing science concepts. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the US and studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests proven in all 50 states. As a former school teacher, I can tell you firsthand when kids come back from summer holiday, they're a bit rusty. But it doesn't have to be that way. Your kid could be ready to go and have that advantage with just a few minutes a day using IXL make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and the hundred dollar MBA show listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com mba visit iexcel.com mba to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Today's episode is sponsored by Square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. Square works for one location shops, mobile service businesses and multi location franchises. Take payments at a kiosk, counter, website or with your phone, all synced in real time. With Square, you can track sales, manage inventory and access reports too. Plus, Square supports every major payment method including tap to pay and offers instant access to your earnings through Square checking. And built in tools like loyalty and marketing help you connect with customers and reward them for showing up again. No special training required, just set Square up and start taking payments quickly. With Square, you get all the tools to run your business with none of the contracts or complexity. And why wait? Right now you can get up to $200 off square hardware at square.com go mba that's sq U-A-R-E.com go mba. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. To make it simple, I'm going to give a four part framework or four part formula so that you understand how to keep people's interest, how to make sure that you. You do. This part of the equation of cash, okay? This formula of cash and the four part formula is problem. Promise Proof Path. Okay, Problem. What pain does your customer have? What are they suffering from? What's keeping them up at night? Promise what is possible if they work with you, if they listen to this video, if they sign up for your program? Proof. Why should they believe you can deliver on what you're saying? This is where you now talk about your personal brand. You talk about what you've done before, a little bit about your story and finally, path. What is the next step they should take right now? This is probably one of the most neglected parts of this formula because a lot of people are just like give value and they don't tell them what to do next. Like, you got to give them a call to action. You got to tell them all right, next, what I want you to do is go to this link or comment below keywords so that they're engaging with you or ask me a question on this topic. This is the first step towards many steps to get them to become a customer.
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A
I love that you reminded everyone about that call to action because it's not just about the messaging being vague and not landing anywhere. Once you've got a good message and you've got their attention, tell them what to do next. That specificity of what's the next step that you should take, it's so often overlooked and so important.
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B
Exactly. If your messaging could apply to anyone, it will resonate with no one. So you have to be very, very specific about who you're speaking to. This is something that is very, very important. I think a lot of people forget they want to reach so many people. They think I want to widen the net as much as possible. But when you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one. It's like you're speaking to a void. You sound very vanilla. But when you know exactly who you're speaking to, it's much easier to be able to communicate and resonate with them. Because you're speaking their language. The more specific you can get about helping out and understanding their pains and their needs, they're going to be like this person understands me. This person must have the solution because they understand my pain so much, there
- [19:07]
A
might be at a risk of being disliked. I think sometimes that messaging can maybe seem polarizing or people are afraid to alienate one side of the audience.
- [19:16]
B
You got to be okay with the fact that not everyone's going to love you. I mean, if you don't get any kind of hate on social media, if you don't get any kind of disapproval, then you're probably doing something wrong, like, you're not really making a stand. You don't have a line in the sand. You're not really standing for anything. So it's good that you have some pushback. And we get a lot of strange comments on our content, but I like to reply with politeness and say, hey, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right about that. But this is my perspective. This is what I think. And at the end of the day, this is my show.
- [19:46]
A
Absolutely. I mean, it's. Yeah, at the beginning, it might be hard, but I think eventually it gets easier.
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B
We got a lot more to cover in today's episode, but if you're getting value so far, you already got value, then hit that subscribe button on whatever platform you're on. It's the best way for you to say thank you to us. Now, I also want you to subscribe because we have an upcoming episode I don't want you to miss. It's called how to create a business you won't regret Sometimes. We create businesses. We create worlds that we're trapped in, gardens that we can't get out of. Okay? So I want you to make sure that you are consciously building a business that you will love. And that's what that episode's all about. We're working on it right now. Hit subscribe so you don't miss it when it comes out. All right, we covered C. We covered a. Now S. Okay. Sell and serve. This is the one where most people cringe. This is the one where people start, you know, I don't want to sell. I don't want to talk my products. I don't want to be sleazy.
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A
This is where you and I had a few differences of the bean. I felt like you were much more harder on the cell, and I had the more Australian perspective. Like, go easy. Go easy.
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B
Yeah. And I think my perspective was informed by the fact that my dad was in sales for decades and he sold cars for a living. He was one of the best selling, best salesmen at the dealership for over 10 years. Straight. He was, I think, the best salesman in the east coast of the US what he taught me is a perspective that most people don't have when it comes to sales. And you gotta start thinking about sales as you being a consultant. And the goal of sales is not for you to convince people or to force people to buy anything. Your job is to help people make a decision. That's it. Your job is to make sure that they know what to do next. So if that decision is not to buy, you're still doing your job because they're not meant for your product or service. Better for you to do that than them. For them to buy it and they regret it. And there's chargebacks and people are disgruntled and Google reviews all negative. You don't want that. Okay. What? Your job is to make a decision decision that serves your customer. I want to reiterate that your audience, the people that you are putting this content out in the world, this is not a business. Followers are not customers. You have to make sure that you understand that there are people out there and there's people that you transact with, and there's different levels to the people that you work with in your business. There's the people that are the top of the funnel, meaning the people that, first time they ever heard of you, they've seen a reel of yours, they saw an ad, they saw you speak on stage at an event. That's one level. But there's another level, somebody who's been spending money with you for years, that's a solid customer. So you need to treat these levels differently. I've seen too many entrepreneurs spend years building an audience and making almost no money because they've stopped at attention. They're like, okay, I got people's attention. They're interested in what I have. But they never make an offer. They never have anything to sell to them. They just hope that they can do something with this audience one day. Revenue solves all your business problems, right? If you feel overworked, guess what? Revenue allows you to hire people. Okay? Allows you to relieve yourself of some of the duties that you shouldn't be doing. And revenue comes along with the fact that you need to sell. Okay? Revenues come magically. You have to just get comfortable with selling.
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A
Do you think people get stuck on, I have to build an audience to a certain size before it's appropriate to start selling? Or is that really just a fear of, like, they're actually uncomfortable with making those offers? Getting to that point where, okay, now I actually have to sell. And so maybe the idea of, oh, I need to get a bigger audience, I need to get a bigger audience is really just that fear playing out.
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B
My answer to that question is, what happened 15 years ago? Did every business go out of business because they didn't have an audience? No, they had customers. Right. An audience is something that has been created through social media, through the Internet and now there's no gatekeepers with media, which is great. And it's a great way for you to get exposure and it's a great way for you to have free ads, basically free awareness. But what you have to understand is that you still need a system to attract your ideal customer. And you need a system for them to understand if the decision of buying with you or consuming your product or service is right for them so that they can become a customer. This is called a sales transaction. You need to have that part of the equation and a lot of people just neglect it. They're just like, they're going to go to my website and buy it. No, there's got to be some part where you actually sell it to them.
- [24:06]
A
Is that the sales conversation, like a dm, an email, like, what does that look like? Can it look different for any, for different businesses?
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B
A thousand percent. So some businesses like to do like a regular webinar where they run a webinar once a month and add value in that webinar, help answer questions, coach a little bit and then present their product and service. We did this with our software company, Webinar Ninja. We had a webinar software that sold our software, using our software, selling that software on that webinar. So it's very, very meta. Yeah, but the point here is that we didn't just fact that people are just going to buy on the website. No, there's a lot of people that are thinking about it. They're on the fence, they're not sure. They have questions in their head. They have a lot of rebuttals like, oh, maybe this is not right for me. Will this work for my type of business? And you need to answer these questions. Now. The reason why I think that sales is one of the best things for your business is not only because it makes you money, it's because you get the chance to understand who your customers are, understand their pain points, understand why they buy, understand why they don't buy. I just got an email from one of our listeners. He's really struggling with sales and he says I keep getting no's and I get deflated and I say No's are gold. Okay? You can't just say no and walk away. You have to ask why? Why did you say no? Why is this not a good fit? Why is this a bad time? Why is it too expensive? Figure out why that information allows you to re shape your offer, maybe improve your product, maybe understand what person that I'm trying to sell to is not right for my offer. They don't understand the solution entirely. Or maybe they don't recognize the problem that they have.
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A
Yeah, and you just get clear on that through those. I remember with those webinars we would record every piece of feedback, every question because there was so much information from every single person that showed up as to who was the ideal customer, who were we really helping and serving versus someone who was maybe just, you know, maybe interested, kicking tires as you often say. Um, but you need to have that back and forth and not run away from maybe even someone who said no. Flat out. Figure out why.
- [26:09]
B
Yeah, so you could do this via webinar. You can do this via DMS on social media. You can do this on your website with a, even just a video, like a sales video that answers questions. You can have one of those like chat bots or I should say like chat channels where you get a Message right into WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger, I should say, where you can answer questions right there on your website. There's so many ways you can do one on one calls to close deals. You can do it in person. You know, maybe you're going to sell a pizzeria, your automated software that's going to help them get more customers. There's so many ways to do this. But the point here is do this,
- [26:43]
A
don't just have a system for it, right.
- [26:46]
B
Or choose, choose a method of sales that is comfortable for you. I liked webinars because I was leaning on my strengths because I taught for 10 years as a classroom teacher and webinars is basically teaching and allowed me to scale my efforts. Meaning that I can do one webinar and there could be hundreds of people on that webinar and I don't have to do hundreds of calls. I can just do one call. And it allowed me to be able to scale my efforts and just be one hour every week to do this webinar gets me sales.
- [27:13]
A
And so then you've chosen the method. Whatever it's going to be will stay on webinars. You get to the point where you're comfortable enough to make the offer because that's the natural part of the process. That's where the revenue comes. So what actually helps people convert?
- [27:27]
B
Right. Every offer has three questions in mind for the buyer. Okay, why this? Right. What is the offer and why does it solve my specific problem? Okay, so in our example with Webinar Ninja, people wanted to sell more of their products and services via webinars. But a lot of software out there was complicated. You needed other pieces of software to make it work. You needed marketing software and email software and all this other stuff that make it all happen. And ours was simple and easy. And even if you are a solo founder, you can do this by yourself. So why this? Well, it's a lot easier than you think to run a webinar and make money. And one of the biggest things we did in our offer is like, hey, you know, we have a money back guarantee. If you don't make your money back through sales through webinars using Webinar Ninja, you can just cancel and get your money back. You're not going to be charged. So it's like a no brainer, like, why would I not try this? Because it's guaranteed to make me money. The other thing is why now, right? Why do I take action now? One of the things I always say is that, you know Macy's, which is a department store in the US they have a one day sale every Wednesday. Why do they have a one day sale every Wednesday? Because they want you to go through the door, right? They want a reason for you to come to Macy's. Right. And they don't want you to come anytime. Just come now. Now. Why Wednesday? Well, they chose an arbitrary day. Just a reason to do it now. So why should they act instead of thinking about it? So this could be bonuses or some sort of special offer that they get when they buy your product or service. And if you're listening to this, you're going to start thinking of examples of when you were sold a product or service and you realize, oh, they're going to include a free water bottle. Yeah, that's a why now? Buy today and you'll get a free water bottle with your luggage, for example, if you're buying a suitcase. Right? And then lastly, why you? Why should they buy from you instead of someone else, the competitor? Why should they trust you? There's so many choices. They can solve this problem in so many ways. By the way, they can also ignore this problem and not solve it. Right? So why you? And this is where you have to come in and bring in the fact that they can trust you, that you have their back that you have their best interest in mind. So for example, when we did our webinars, we would tell people, hey, when you sign up, we're going to give you all the templates, we're going to give you everything you got, we're going to give you all the copy for the email follow up sequences that have worked for our business. So like, oh, wow, I can't get that anywhere else. I'm going to go with you guys because you're going to give me everything I need to succeed. We would also say, hey, you're going to have somebody who's going to call you and they're going to set up your first webinar for you. And they're like, and if you are really nervous, one of our customer support agents can jump on your webinar, your first webinar, and support you right there. No one in the game was doing that. So they're like, oh, this is kind of a no brainer. And this is the whole point of an offer. You want to make sure that they feel foolish not taking the offer. There's one more element that makes an offer a massive success and that is risk reversal. And this is a term in business that means that you take on the risk. Most people, they don't want to buy because they don't want to regret this purchase. They feel like, what if this is a mistake? What if it's not right for me? What if I realize, you know, there's another product that's better later on? Well, risk reversal says, hey, don't take that risk. I'm going to take that risk. People buy when the risk is lowered and they feel no pressure. The fear of making a bad decision is often stronger than the desire to solve the problem, the desire to get the outcome. So if you can remove that fear of making a bad decision by saying, hey, we have a money back guarantee, we have a free trial. I know people that do what's called a 200% money back guarantee, which means that if I don't get you a result, I will give you the price of the product plus credit of another hundred percent of the price of the product. So it's like overwhelming. Like this guy's throwing money at me, like why would I not do this? And the reason why somebody would do this is because they believe in their product. They understand that they will get results and they have systems to make sure that the results are made through that, through that transaction, through that coaching, through that installation of some sort of software, whatever it might be, they're going to make sure that the customer wins.
- [31:38]
A
It's like samples. I get samples all the time. Right. Different products. That's an easy way. I was just thinking, what are some examples maybe for? We've given the example of webinar Ninja in the free trial, but what about a consultancy service coaching business? What are some examples of risk reversal there?
- [31:54]
B
Yeah. So Kawish, who is the person that runs all our thumbnails, who designs all our thumbnails on our YouTube channel. He is a good example. So Kawish didn't approach me and say, hey, I'm a great thumbnail designer. Check out my work, hire me. No, what he did is he went to my YouTube channel and he created like, seven different thumbnails based on previous videos. And he told me, here, have these thumbnails, use them A, B, test them on YouTube, see how they do. We gave them to Shanae. Shanae said, these are actually working really well. I really love them. And he gave us a win before we even paid. So I was already convinced I don't need to be sold. Like, this works. So then I just say, kwish, you're hired. That's it. I don't need anything else. There's no sales transaction at that point.
- [32:39]
A
That's it. Thank you, Kawish. We love it.
- [32:42]
B
Let's get to H, the final letter in the word cash. And that's harness referrals. And this is the most underused growth lever in almost all businesses. People work so hard to get their ideal customer to buy. They finally buy, they get a win, they love what you have, they're raving fans, and then they just don't do anything with that. That is like a travesty. You should not let that go. You should. That's like a crime in my book. Why? Because the best customer that you could find are the best customers you have. What does that mean? When you have a great customer, you need to find who is exactly like them. You want to learn as much as possible from them. You want to learn where they work, how they make their money, what websites they go to, all that information. And on top of that, they're going to know great people like them. They're going to have other winners like them, people that are in the same industry, people that are going to need your products and services. So this is a goldmine of information. And frankly, it's free money. Why? Because when somebody refers somebody else, they're vouching for you. It's like them saying, hey, I know a guy that's great at something. You should work with this person. And if you think about it, Nicole, how many times have we paid money for services, for products because somebody else referred them?
- [33:57]
A
Yeah, it's easy. You don't even think about it.
- [33:59]
B
Exactly.
- [34:00]
A
I think people just think, oh, the product's gonna speak for itself. But. And just good word. It's gonna happen naturally. But you're saying, like, you actually have to instigate that process 100%.
- [34:11]
B
So instead of talking about how to get more leads or complaining, I don't have enough leads, you need to ask a better question. How do I turn my current customers into marketers? How do I turn them into my best salespeople?
- [34:24]
A
Right. That reframe is super important. And does this apply to all businesses? Like, does it apply to a podcast? Does it apply to a coaching business?
- [34:32]
B
It does physical products. Yeah, it does any business. And the thing is that if your product is good and it's noteworthy, people are going to talk about it anyway. But you need to formalize this process so it makes it easier. Easy for people to come into your door, your metaphorical door, even if it's online so that you can show them how you can solve their problems as well. And it starts with understanding that referrals do not happen automatically. It just doesn't just happen magically. Okay. What you need to do is once you have a happy customer and they have the intent to refer, you got to give them a plan. You got to give them a framework that they need to follow so it's easier. Easy for them. Right. A lot of people, they just say, hey, if you know anybody, could you please refer them to us? And like, yeah, definitely, I'm going to do that. It never happens. So instead of doing that, you want to give them clear instructions, a clear plan to deliver these customers to you.
- [35:26]
A
I think people are happy to just be told the next step. Right. It was what you said at the very beginning. It's got to be very clear, like, what the next step is. And even that applies with referrals. I think people may be afraid to not want to bother their customers, but rather than being afraid of not bothering them, they'd be just much happier if you just simply told them. If you could just do this and be very explicit, like, do this next thing. That's easy. They don't have to think they can just action that 100%.
- [35:51]
B
The first step is understanding what are the moments that referrals are most likely going to happen. Okay. The first moment is achievement. Okay. When a customer gets A result from working with you. As soon as they get a win, that is a moment to ask for a referral because you are like a hero to them at that moment. The next moment is a milestone. When a customer hits a goal that they've set, like they lost that 10 pounds that they were looking to lose in the first, you know, two months and it's at the beginning of their journey and they just got some momentum. You can ask then. You can also ask when there's gratitude. Okay. When the customer thanks you, says, hey, thank you so much, you've been great. I love working with you. You've really helped me in so many ways. This is an open door for you. Walk through that door, ask them for a referral then. Okay, so when you're asking for referral, how do you ask?
- [36:41]
A
Makes me think about when you're at a restaurant and you pay, you've eaten, you're happy, you paid the bill, and then the servers come round with like, hey, can you leave us a review on, on Google? That's the perfect moment, right?
- [36:52]
B
Yeah. In a way, that is a referral. You're referring this restaurant to the public.
- [36:57]
A
Right.
- [36:58]
B
So you want to make it easy for them. You want to give them the exact words. And I'm going to give them to you right now. When you are asking somebody to refer their friends, their colleagues to you, don't just say, do you know anybody? Do you know anybody that would want my service? Do you know anybody that would help me? Do you know? Is an open ended question that just makes people just give up. They're kind of like, I don't know right now. I'll have to think about it. Does this sound familiar? So instead of saying do you know? You ask who you know, who do you know that would want my service that has the same problem that you had and would like a solution? Now we're going to even more specific. You could say, who are the three people you know? Who are the two people you know that you know, top of mind right now that who comes to mind that would really benefit from this product or service just like you just have and just had a win right now. And who makes you think of particular people? Actually, John's been complaining about this for years and Susan was saying to me the other day that she's really suffering with the same problem. So this is a different wording, it's very slight, but it makes a huge difference. You can also incentivize them. This is something that we've tried many times and it Works where you could just say, hey, the next consultation is free, or your next month is 50% off for every referral that you have. Why? Because even if you take a dent, you take a bump where it's like, okay, I'm going to lose 50% of the deal or my monthly recurring revenue from this customer. Once you're going to get a customer that's going to come and pay you month after month, and that's going to be worth it. The lifetime value of that new customer is much more than 50% off that one month.
- [38:34]
A
So it has to be very clear that reframe of, like, it doesn't just benefit the business, but it's also benefiting the person in some ways.
- [38:41]
B
Yeah. If the incentive is enough, it can't just be something like, hey, we're going to give you, like, a bag of gummy bears, or we're going to give you, like, you know, an Amazon gift card of $10. That's not enough. You know, like, it has to be something that actually makes a lot of sense. And they can see the value because they're paying, let's say, $500 a month for your service, and they're going to get $250 back in their pocket. That makes a lot of sense.
- [39:02]
A
True.
- [39:03]
B
Now, before we bring this home, I want to share something that changed how I think about growth entirely. Most entrepreneurs think the path to more revenue is more leads.
- [39:14]
A
It's not hear that all the time, but just had enough leads. But just had more leads. Oh, as soon as I get all the leads, it's like turning on a tap. But it's not right.
- [39:22]
B
No, it's not. Growth is multiplicative. And here's the math. If you get 100 leads at 2% conversion, that means if you get 100 people interested in what you have and only 2% of them buy, that gives you two customers. So for every 100 leads, you get two customers at 2% conversions. Now, if you improve your conversion to 4%, 100 leads equals four customers. Correct. You doubled your revenue without generating a single additional lead. Has nothing to do with your leads. It has a lot to do with your conversion. So a lot of people think they have a lead problem, but in fact, they have a conversion problem. They have a leaky bucket. Every time somebody comes to their website, they're not convinced that you can help them, so they leave. So if you can get more people to be convinced and convert to a customer, then you're going to have a lot more customers because of your higher Conversions, nothing to do with your traffic or your leads.
- [40:17]
A
Wow, that's crazy, because I think that obsession over traffic is a real thing and there is value to it. But the most expensive mistake there is that you're not focusing on the most important thing. The actual conversion.
- [40:29]
B
Exactly. I remember we tested headlines on our website for opener ninja. Like every single month, we changed the headline on the homepage, and one headline doubled our conversions. Like we doubled our customers off a headline. Yes. And we had no difference in traffic. But the point is that you're utilizing the traffic. You have better. All right, before we wrap up, let me give you the framework one more time. In the simplest possible version, get seen, get attention, pick one channel, master it, and show up consistently. That's pretty much it. You have to get trusted, attract that interest, speak to their problem, make a specific promise to them, deliver on that promise, show proof, and give a clear next step. This is what you do next. Then you get paid, you sell, and you serve your customers. You have that conversion happen. They become happy customers after you make an offer and they understand why you are great for them, that you solved a problem. Then you need to get a recommendation from them, get recommended. Right. You want to harness these referrals. You want to deliver remarkable results so that you have that moment where you can say, hey, I know you're really grateful for everything I've done for you. So how about you tell me who you think would benefit from this service, this product as well? That is the system. It's not a tactic. It's a system. And the difference between those two things, a tactic and a system, is that a system is allowing you to build something that works for you rather than you chasing leads. A lot of people are like, I can't get enough leads. Not enough leads coming in my pipeline. Well, that's you chasing. If you build a system, like I just mentioned, then the system generates those leads, not only gets you the leads, but you have a system for converting those leads into customers. Those customers are happy. You get a win for them. And when they're happy, they referral other people. They refer other people to you so that you can get more customers. And the first flywheel continues. It continues to get more customers, more leads into the funnel.
- [42:27]
A
I think one time, I don't know who said it, but I think hopefully you remember, someone said, like, marketing tactics have a shelf life. They all have a shelf life. And hopefully, Joseph, we've addressed this question. I know we've gone quite long. We've covered a lot of ground You've gotten this question so many times, so hopefully there's enough here to answer this question that it's not about chasing those tactics. It's not about those hacks that have a shelf life. It's about that system that's, that's long, long term. Really?
- [42:53]
B
Yeah, 100%. And I would say that I know there's going to people that watch this video right now or listen to this podcast and they're going to say, Omar tried all that and it didn't work. Well, I want to talk directly to you. If you've tried everything I talked about and you are still struggling, then I have to be very honest with you. I got to just be honest, Uncle Omar. And here it is. Maybe your product's not good enough. Maybe you need to improve your product. Maybe what you have is not a real need. You're not solving a real problem and therefore people are not interested. So maybe you got to go back to the drawing board and change a few things. Improve your offer, improve what you're presenting to your customers and you'll have a better chance of converting customers. A lot of us, we forget the fact that at the end of the day, a superior product is easy to sell. Now with that said, if you want to implement this formula, the cash formula, you, here is what I want you to do this week. I want you to audit your business against those four letters I talked about. See where you're creating your attention right now. What's happening? Are you doing this on social? Are you doing this on email? What is it? Are you committing to that one channel? Are you scattered across all seven and you haven't had any wins anywhere, right? If you have a win somewhere, keep doing it. But if you're going to choose a new one, commit to it. Maybe it's the letter A. Does your messaging speak to your customers problems or issues that they have or does it just talk about you and it's just you beating on your chest? You need to serve your customers. Every business owner is in the service business. You are serving people. This is how you make money. Maybe it's the S part of cash. Are you making offers? Are you having the conversations with your customers and learning about why they're buying and why they're not buying? Are you lowering the risk for them so that they feel like this is a no brainer offer? Maybe it's letter H. Are you asking for referrals? Are you making sure that you capitalize on those right moments and asking for them to recommend somebody to you? Are you making it easy for them. One of the things I see people do in person is that they ask, who do you know? And they're like, oh, I know so and so. Oh, do you have their number on their phone right now? Get the referral, get their phone number, and then you can call them and say, hey, so and so told me that you'd be interested in this. Do you have five minutes to talk about it? Or I can, you know, send you a deck or whatever it might be. Capitalize on the moment, the letter, where you feel like you're weak at, where you're not getting the best results, where you feel like you could do better. This is where you start. This is what you do this week, Right? You don't have to do all four at once simultaneously. You could do one, master it, get better at, and then move on to the next.
- [45:21]
A
All right. Wow. I love it, Omar. I feel like this was a mini masterclass.
- [45:25]
B
It's almost like I've been teaching for 20 years. All right, thanks so much, Nicole, and thanks for being here and. And thanks, Joseph, for asking this question and making sure that we cover it because it's an important one and it's really frustrating. I know, I've been there. But you need to trust the system, build the system, and follow through. This takes a bit of work and it takes a bit of time, but you could do it now. If this framework has given you clarity on where your growth is breaking down and how to fix it, awesome. The best way you can say thank you is to subscribe on whatever platform you're on. But if you want to continue learning, we have a recent episode that I want you to check out. It's called if your marketing is not working, this will fix it. 99% of businesses, business owners, are getting this wrong, and I want you to make sure that you don't get it wrong. So check out that episode if you want to keep the learning going. Because the A part, the attention part of cash is attract interest and lives or dies with your marketing. So you got to make sure that you are doing your marketing properly.
- [46:25]
A
Amazing. And of course, if you want your question answered here on Q and A Wednesdays, don't Forget, just go to100mba.net Q, write your question, and Omer and I will unpack it for you.
- [46:39]
B
If you found today's episode helpful and you want more practical business lessons to help you start, grow, and scale your business, the best thing you could do is subscribe to this podcast. Hit subscriber. Follow on your favorite podcast app, the one that you're using right now, whether it's Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. By hitting subscribe, you get our next episode automatically, and it's the best way to support the show. It's absolutely free and it's a way for you to commit to growing your business. And now that you subscribed, I'll check you in the next episode. Hey Fidelity, Can I get a second
- [47:17]
A
opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app?
- [47:19]
B
With Fidelity, it's easy to get an outside opinion from independent experts in a single score. And then when you're ready, trade US stocks and ETFs with no commissions.
- [47:30]
A
That's right.
- [47:31]
B
I am always right. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. $0 commission does not apply to customers designated by Fidelity as a professional equity trader. A limited number of ETFs are subject to a service fee of $100. See details@fidelity.com commissions Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC member NYSE, SIPC.