MBA2354 Bonus Episode - Introducing Real Good Podcast Season 5

Summary

Podcast Summary: MBA2354 Bonus Episode - Introducing Real Good Podcast Season 5

The $100 MBA Show presents a bonus episode featuring Omar Zenhom alongside Greg Cunningham and Faith Saley as they introduce Season 5 of the Real Good Podcast by US Bank. This episode delves into the podcast's evolution, its commitment to showcasing inspiring stories from diverse leaders, and highlights upcoming projects and themes for the new season.

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1. Introduction to Season 5

Faith Saley and Greg Cunningham kick off the episode by expressing their excitement about launching the fifth season of the Real Good Podcast. They emphasize the season's focus on leaders who are primarily Latino, Hispanic, or Latinx, while also welcoming all identities. The hosts highlight the podcast's mission to share personal stories of successful individuals dedicated to making the world a better place.

Faith Saley [02:03]: "With each conversation, we're going to bring you the personal stories of successful people who are making the world a better place."

2. Reflections on Previous Seasons

The hosts reflect on the journey of the podcast over the past four seasons, recalling pivotal moments such as discussions during the pandemic and addressing systemic issues highlighted by events like George Floyd's murder. They acknowledge the depth and honesty of conversations that have shaped the podcast's reputation for being inspiring and authentic.

Greg Cunningham [05:05]: "There's some layers that we needed to peel back and we needed to have some real conversations about where people are and why communities are the way they are without pointing fingers."

3. Highlighting Recent Achievements and Projects

A significant highlight of the episode is the announcement of the film "Translators", produced in partnership with director Rudy Valdez. Debuted at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2020, the film celebrates the roles of 11 million children who act as translators for their families. The film's recent win at Tribeca X underscores its impact and the podcast's commitment to amplifying underrepresented stories.

Greg Cunningham [08:18]: "The film we helped produce is called Translators, and we debuted it during the Tribeca Film Festival here in the summer of 2020."

4. Stories and Themes of Representation

Faith shares insights from her interviews, such as the impactful book "Crowned" by Karen and Regis Bethencourt, which reimagines classic fairy tales through the lens of the African diaspora. She discusses the transformative power of representation, highlighting how seeing oneself portrayed positively can foster self-worth and empowerment.

Additionally, the story of Houston White and his entrepreneurial journey is recounted. His ventures, including the Get Down Coffee Company and Houston White Menswear, exemplify black excellence and the importance of representation in business spaces like barbershops.

Faith Saley [16:58]: "They had him pose shirtless and turn his beautiful natural skin into a story about how the zebra got its stripes."

5. Personal Learning and Conversations

Both hosts share personal anecdotes that illustrate their continuous learning journey. Faith recounts her work on a poignant story about the Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph "The Soiling of Old Glory," delving into its historical significance and the personal connections she has with the individuals involved.

Greg discusses his experiences responding to challenges and skepticism around Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives. He emphasizes the importance of data-driven approaches and accountability in fostering genuine inclusion within organizations.

Greg Cunningham [47:33]: "Our purpose as an organization of powering human potential and helping individuals and families fulfill their dreams and helping communities reach their full potential."

6. DEI Insights and Industry Critique

The conversation shifts to a critical analysis of the DEI industry, referencing an article by Connor Friedersdorf in The Atlantic. Greg differentiates US Bank's DEI efforts from mainstream corporate diversity training, highlighting US Bank's approach as one of genuine commitment rather than mere compliance. He underscores the integration of DEI into business outcomes and leadership evaluations.

Greg Cunningham [47:08]: "It's about how we serve customers, how we serve communities, and most importantly, how we serve employees in that."

7. Conclusion and Future Excitement

As the episode wraps up, Greg and Faith express their enthusiasm for the upcoming season. They tease interviews with influential leaders such as Claudia Edelman from "We Are All Human" and Eric Toda from Meta, promising rich discussions on technology, leadership, and cultural representation. The hosts also celebrate their enduring friendship and collaborative spirit, which have been instrumental in shaping the podcast's success.

Faith Saley [63:48]: "It's amazing that we never stop learning. I get excited for every single person we're going to talk to."

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Notable Quotes

• Faith Saley [06:12]: "They continue to learn so much every time we meet someone new."
• Greg Cunningham [14:28]: "This is all about how do we get to outcomes, to better outcomes."
• Faith Saley [26:08]: "It's hard to describe how I feel right now, because it's not about an award, but it is about this notion of acceptance."
• Greg Cunningham [51:38]: "We have to just continue to do more in all of our efforts to build those bridges."

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Key Takeaways

• Season Focus: Emphasizes stories from Latino, Hispanic, and Latinx leaders, promoting inclusivity across all identities.
• Representation Matters: Highlighting the transformative power of seeing oneself reflected positively in media and leadership.
• Authentic DEI Efforts: US Bank's DEI initiatives are deeply integrated into business practices, moving beyond mandatory trainings to genuine organizational commitment.
• Continuous Learning: Both hosts highlight the importance of ongoing education and open conversations in fostering understanding and growth.
• Upcoming Content: Promises engaging interviews with leaders from various sectors, continuing the podcast's tradition of inspiring and insightful storytelling.

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Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the Real Good Podcast, this episode sets the tone for a season filled with meaningful conversations, impactful stories, and a steadfast commitment to making the world a better place through the power of diverse leadership.

Transcript

[Greg Cunningham]

Got a 7am meeting on a Monday expensing breakfast because it's in policy wasting all afternoon submitting an expense report for that breakfast. If your company used Ramp, you could submit expenses with just a text. Yay.

[Faith Saley]

Free your team from expense reports today. Switch your business to ramp.com.

[Unknown Host]

Hey, hey, hey. We're gonna do something a little different in the feed today. Those of you who are regular listeners of the show know about the podcast Real Good by US Bank. We've been sharing this podcast with you for years because, frankly, it's really good. Every season, Real Good seeks out to tell stories of people putting in the work. We know what that's all about. It's a podcast that shows us that while the world is imperfect, there are people out there trying to make it better. Real Good's put out four amazing seasons and they just started Season five. One word that I would say that describes the Real Good podcast by US bank is inspiring. I'm about to share with you episode one from Season five. In this episode, instead of featuring a guest, our hosts will set the stage for the season while looking back at all the great moments of the first four seasons so you'll get all caught up after. If you like what you heard, go listen and subscribe to the Real Good podcast wherever you get your podcast. Again, it's called Real Good by US Bank. You don't want to miss it, go ahead and subscribe now.

[Faith Saley]

This is Real Good by US Bank, a podcast about helpers.

[Unknown Host]

It's the reason why I'm a filmmaker.

[Greg Cunningham]

I believe in voice. All I ever wanted was a voice.

[Faith Saley]

And it's why I do what I do. He said. It would never be enough to convince other people we belong at the table if we're not convinced that we belong there ourselves. You're more than ready. You belong at the table.

[Greg Cunningham]

And I'm representing 63 million people, right? They want to see their stories being told, so I don't take it lightly.

[Faith Saley]

I'm Faith Saley. Welcome back to another season of Real Good Number five. This season's going to focus on some amazing work being done by leaders who are primarily Latino or Hispanic and or Latinx. However you identify, we are here for it. At the start of the episode, you heard from a few of our guests, a filmmaker, a business leader, and a museum director, and you'll hear more from them this season. With each conversation, we're going to bring you the personal stories of successful people who are making the world a better place. I'm not going to give it all away. But you might get some tears, you might get some unfiltered honesty, and you're going to get a bunch of laughter. I got to say, I'm really proud of this season. If you ever wonder whether decision makers are having real conversations about cultural shifts, equality, personal challenges, the kind of stuff you talk about with your friends, the answer is they do with us on Real Good. When's the last time you heard C suiters be super vulnerable? Because that's what you're in for this season. But first, before we get into our guest stories, I and my co host, Greg Cunningham, chief diversity officer and senior executive vice president of US bank, are going to get into it ourselves. We're going to take a beat, look back at some of the themes we've threaded through previous seasons, and tease a little of what you can expect coming up. We also check out some projects we've worked on since you last heard from us. After all, if we're talking about what's real good, you might want to know that we've invested in the work as well. Greg, this is. This is the first episode of the. You're blowing on your coffee because you know you need to caffeinate for this.

[Greg Cunningham]

I need to caffeinate for this one. First episode.

[Faith Saley]

This is season five.

[Greg Cunningham]

Thank you. Thank you. For five seasons.

[Faith Saley]

Oh, my gosh.

[Greg Cunningham]

Real good. Seriously.

[Faith Saley]

Thank you.

[Greg Cunningham]

It's been an honor, really. And fun.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. Both the things. And it's been three years and a month. And the reason I know that is because on one of our first episodes, and it may have been the first time I met you over zoom, of course. Cause we were in a pandemic. George Floyd had just been murdered in your city. And I actually remember we referenced it in that interview. I don't remember whom we were interviewing. I remember referencing it. And we actually had this quick back and forth. Like, should we go there? Should we talk about it?

[Greg Cunningham]

Right, right.

[Faith Saley]

And in retrospect, the I don't know if the word is irony is that when this whole show was conceived, it was like, hey, there's this pandemic going on. Let's shine the light on what U.S. bank is gonna do for disproportionately affected communities. During the pandemic.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And then we were like, oh, there's something underneath. Like, they're disproportionately affected for a reason.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes. Yeah. There's some layers that we needed to peel back and we needed to have some real conversations about where people are and why communities are the way they are without Pointing fingers, but really dealing with some of the tough issues. But most importantly, what I think this podcast has sort of emerged into is a real focus and our ability to shine the light on people who are doing real work every single day to help people's lives get better. And the bank just wants to be a catalyst and enabler of this great work and the great work of the people who are doing it and bringing visibility to them. And we've tried very hard, and I think you've done a masterful job of making sure that the conversations stay focused on these people and the incredible sacrifice and service that they provide to these communities.

[Faith Saley]

Thank you. You started by thanking me. I'll say thank you because I continue to learn so much every time we meet someone new. And even though we often hear the same themes, one of them being. Mothers are awesome. Right. I feel like everybody has these amazing mom stories. Right. But we hear the same themes, and yet everybody's origin story is unique and moving.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. Yeah. And we've been able to. I think everybody that's. Come on. What has also been really a pleasant surprise for me is almost to a person. Everybody we've interviewed has says the experience of coming on here and the conversation was something completely different from what they anticipated.

[Faith Saley]

Oh, I love that.

[Greg Cunningham]

That they didn't know what to think. And I remember specifically the first person to say it, I think, was Jay Bailey. That must have been season three, maybe.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. I love Jay. His energy. He was all 404, right. That's Atlanta.

[Greg Cunningham]

He was expecting. Yeah, he's a 404, the ATL, but he was expecting, like, this corporate thing. And I just remember not with you and me. No. And I showed up with something I had on that day, and you were kind of joking with me about it, and Jay just said something like, oh, this is what this is gonna be.

[Faith Saley]

This is how it's gonna be.

[Greg Cunningham]

This is how this is gonna go down for the next couple of hours. I'm so with this. And it has just flowed in such a natural way. And I'm so proud of the bank, and I'm so proud of what we've created and our ability to just have really normal conversations with people and allowing our listeners to just sort of eavesdrop on these conversations we're having.

[Faith Saley]

I want to go over some of the themes and things that I've learned. But before we do that, I feel like we can't talk about anything else except the news that you just learned. I mean, I.

[Greg Cunningham]

Should we say it? Should we say it? Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. Well, breaking news.

[Greg Cunningham]

Breaking news. So just yesterday, we have this film that we have gotten behind in partnership with director Rudy Valdez, and as the launch of our access commitment, helping to close wealth disparities in the Hispanic community, we wanted to tell these stories of these 11 million kids who translate everyday life for their families. And the film we helped produce is called Translators, and we debuted it during the Tribeca Film Festival here in the summer of 2020. And we just learned that we won Tribeca X and the film won Tribeca X. And it's like a huge moment. So I don't know if we have an applause machine or something that.

[Faith Saley]

I watched you absorb that news, and you were overcome with emotion.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, I still am because I was very proud of it from the very beginning. And I'm proud of it because it's not a U.S. bank story. It's not about U.S. bank. It's about these three families and these incredible kids. And I just. It's been a labor of love for so many people, including all the folks who are behind it from a creative perspective, a production perspective. And I just. I loved it because I wanted to almost have this gift to the Hispanic community to say, I see you, and we see you, that the bank sees you. And we want you to tell your story, and we want you to share your vision with us of what you want your communities to look like. And this film just sort of encapsulates all of that for me and a way of expressing truly what's in my heart and truly what's in the intention of the bank and how we want to go about this work and for it to be recognized and accepted. It's just. It's hard to describe how I feel right now, because it's not about an award, but it is about this notion of acceptance, and people think the story is worthy of being told, and I do as well. And I just want more people to. To lean in and see this story as a truly human story, a truly American story, and one that we should all, you know, find ourselves in.

[Faith Saley]

We are going to have an episode later this season with the director so that everyone who's listening to this.

[Greg Cunningham]

Who wants to.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. Who wants to know more about it? We're gonna. We're gonna lean into that and. And learn all about the film. But it is. It is. Is a short film. We should tell people. Like you said, it follows three minutes.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yep.

[Faith Saley]

It is so joyful and human.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

Intimate.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes. Delicate, respectful. And at the same time, it's optimistic. And I think that is something that I want us all to have more of. Just this notion of optimism. And these kids just leave you so optimistic about our future and what is actually possible. And that just ties so directly to our purpose as a bank, in this notion of optimism and the power of potential and how we as an organization, a financial services organization, can be a catalyst for all of that.

[Faith Saley]

And this show, every single person we've talked to, no matter where they've come from or the challenges they've faced, it's always optimistic. When I have. I don't know how you've described the show to people. In the beginning, I said to people, well, it's, ooh, I mean, it's kind of about systemic racism. But wait, there's more. It's joyful, right?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes, it is.

[Faith Saley]

Because I mean, an easier way to describe it is that it amplifies the voices of people doing good in the world. Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's a much better description.

[Faith Saley]

And at the same time, there is so much underneath and uncovering systemic racism, which is a huge, clunky, frankly, off putting term. Right. Because it's just. How do you even approach that? Well, you approach it with people's personal stories.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

And what they are doing individually with support and access and commitment and uplift to make the world a better place.

[Greg Cunningham]

I would like to, yes to all of that. And I think what we like to do here is just have conversations that are truthful and honest and unafraid and not to. It's never ever been about trying to shame or blame anybody or anything for conditions, but to have real conversations about how we got here so that we can have real conversations about how we continue to fulfill our promise as a society, as an organization, as a nation. Like, that's what we all want. This is all about how do we get to outcomes, to better outcomes. Because when we all win, we all win. Like nobody wins when we have communities that are in pain, nobody wins when we have issues of safety, of poverty, that's bad for everybody. And we just want everyone to sort of have an appreciation. Like we have a collective destiny here as a country. And like your neighbor's not your enemy. It's ridiculous. And we've just been, I think, able to have guests on who are willing to have those on very truthful conversations, whether you agree or disagree with what they say or what we say on this podcast. I think what we try to do is to invite everybody in, in a really truthful kind of way so that we can get to better outcomes.

[Faith Saley]

You and the guests, we've have had on have given me a lot of room to learn. I have learned so much listening to these folks, including you. And I wanted to share with you a few things I've been working on lately, because when I do these are for some CBS Sunday MORNING stories. When I do these stories, I'm like, oh, this is what we talked about. I've been here before. These are the stories I've heard from these individual people on this podcast being played out in real life. So I like, look, I see you. I brought things to show you. Now, I do realize this is we don't have a visual, so I'm gonna describe. So this is a book I'm holding up called Crowned. And I interviewed Karen and Regis Bethencourt, who are these two black photographers in Atlanta. And years ago, they take pictures of kids. And years ago. Here, I'll let you flip through it while I talk to you. Years ago, they told me that kids would come in and they're and these are little kids, like, I think they do, ages 3 to 14, and their parents would straighten their hair before they'd come in.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And they were like, whoa, no, no. We want you the way you are, and we want to celebrate that. So they originally went viral doing this Afro art series where they did unbelievable things with these kids and pictures of their natural hair.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

Just outrageous and stunningly beautiful and powerful. So they just published this book called Crowned, where they reimagine fairy tales that we all know. So on the COVID there is Snow White, but in this fairy tale, she's called Ebony Black. Oh, look, Goldilocks has locks.

[Greg Cunningham]

Goldilocks has real locks, like braided locks and gold sneakers.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. And in the end, she's gorgeous and she learns a lesson. And these are all, these are photographs that Greg's looking at. And she, I want to tell you about that kid. She learns this lesson of humility. Like, you can't just go into the bear's house and eat their stuff and leave.

[Greg Cunningham]

They're fairy tales told from the African diaspora.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

And as you say, as you said, as I'm flipping through, like, the hair obviously called Crown is playing a really prominent role in the expression of these characters. And I haven't read the book, but I mean, amazing.

[Faith Saley]

That kid that you were just looking at, he has vitiligo.

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, I see that.

[Faith Saley]

So that if you don't know, what if people don't know what that is. It's a skin condition. Yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

It's a disorder of discoloration of the skin.

[Faith Saley]

And this 11 year old boy named Tristan, whom I got to meet, he has what kind of appear like white stripes on his brown skin. And they had him pose shirtless and turned his beautiful natural skin into a story about how the zebra got its stripes.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And when I interviewed.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's incredibly powerful.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. And when I interviewed Tristan, this boy with vitiligo, and the girl on the COVID whose name is Lyric, who posed as Ebony Black or Snow White, both of them told me about being bullied for the way they looked. And in fact, a girl at Lyric School told her her skin looked like a burnt biscuit, she was too dark. And it was another girl of color who told her that.

[Greg Cunningham]

Wow.

[Faith Saley]

And these kids talked about how being photographed this way and being seen this way by these photographers, Karin and Regis, made them feel like they mattered and that they were powerful and that they could do or be anything. And it made me think about. It's like when we talked to Tarika Barrett, who runs Girls who Code, or Tanya Van Cort, who's a woman of color in Tech, who created the Goal Setter app. And it's like representation.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes, yes. It means the world. And because it's not only about what you see and how others see you, but the first and most important thing that representation does is it helps you see yourself differently. Like you actually see yourself from a place of strength, you know, from a place of being worthy, because others have shown you the way. Really important stuff. This book is absolutely gorgeous.

[Faith Saley]

It's so beautiful. I'll get it for you.

[Greg Cunningham]

This is amazing.

[Faith Saley]

And it reminds me, do you remember when we were talking to Houston White?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And he was talking about. He remind me the name of what he runs. It's. He's.

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, the Get Down Coffee Company and Houston White Menswear.

[Faith Saley]

Right. Yeah. So it's like a mini empire.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It truly is. This is in North. North Minneapolis. That's right.

[Faith Saley]

An amazing conversation. So such so much charisma. And he was talking about having a boardroom in the middle of a barbershop, Right?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, he does.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. And how being. How seeing you there. Right. Representation in that way empowered him, gave him a vision of what he could be and who believes in him. And then choosing for him to represent himself. Like, here's my place of business, here's my seat of power. It's in a barbershop and I'm leading the way.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes. And you know, has continued to lead the way in ways that are fearless and unapologetic and has now, as you said, Gone on to build from the barbershop another whole commercial component. A coffee shop, a residential area, has a clothing line and hundreds of Target stores across the country that's doing incredibly well. So.

[Faith Saley]

Oh, what are they? Does it say Black excellence? Is that what some of the shirts are?

[Greg Cunningham]

Some of the shirts say Black excellence but the line is Houston white for Target, free commercial for them. But it's just so well done and incredibly important and it's great product. In fact, I just wore the suit. The suit I had on last night was Houston whites.

[Faith Saley]

You looked fly and you had the whitest sneakers I've ever seen. I was like, have you ever worn those before?

[Greg Cunningham]

I think that might have been the first time I wore.

[Faith Saley]

Those are your award winning sneakers. You won the Tropical Film Festival with that.

[Greg Cunningham]

They will go in the trophy case.

[Faith Saley]

Okay, here's another story I've got going on. Have you ever seen. I'm handing Greg a photograph.

[Greg Cunningham]

It's a very historic photo.

[Faith Saley]

It is called the soiling of Old Glory. Everyone needs to go look at it, look it up. It won the Pulitzer Prize in 1976. That is signed for you, Greg, by the photographer Stanley Foreman.

[Greg Cunningham]

No way. Yeah, it's the really famous. This is during the Boston school busing protest and it's the very famous as faith. You described it way better than I do. But it's the white gentleman who appears to about to gorge a black man with the American flag. With the staff from the American flag.

[Faith Saley]

So I've long wanted to do a story about what happened that day with those players. And my grandfather was the assistant deputy editor of the Boston Herald who sent that photographer Stanley Forman out that day to cover that story. So I grew up seeing that photograph on my grandparents wall in Plymouth, Massachusetts and we moved when I was 6. So I have very vague memories. But what I remember is that the photograph disturbed me. Right. I was a kid, I didn't know the history behind it. And it's a haunting photograph.

[Greg Cunningham]

It really is.

[Faith Saley]

When the picture was taken, when it was on the front page the next day, it was called the Shot heard round the World, that photograph. And so decades later, my father goes on Antiques Roadshow with his signed copy of that photograph. Signed by the photographer is like, what's not that he was interested in selling it, but he was like, what's this worth? Because this is an iconic American photo.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And I started getting really interested in this story. So this happened in 1975 and I wanted to talk to the people in the story. So the black man in the story in that photograph is Ted Landsmark. He is in his 70s now. He, at that point, was a black activist and civil rights lawyer in Boston. He is now a distinguished professor at Northeastern University.

[Greg Cunningham]

Wow.

[Faith Saley]

Just an icon in Boston civics. And the photographer, Stanley Foreman, also in his 70s, has the best, thickest Boston accent, the greatest guy. And so I had the honor and privilege of sitting down with both of them for CBS Sunday Morning to talk to them about that day and the legacy of that photograph. And, of course, we reached out to the young man. He was 19, who is holding. He is now probably in his late 60s. He is holding the flag in that photo. And he didn't want to talk to our producer. And I think he feels weary that every time his grandkids who are growing up in Boston go into a new year. I don't know at what point in high school in Boston, but at some point, someone takes this photograph out and talks about Boston history. Yeah. History of civil rights. And talking with Ted Landsmark, the man in the photograph was an astonishing sort of illumination of the grace he had. So backing up. Something you and I learn over and over on this podcast is that people's stories are nuanced and complicated. And in that photograph, it appears that Ted Landsmark is being speared. Yes, the white man was certainly trying to hurt him, but he was actually swinging it. And the man behind Ted, who looks like he's holding him in order for him to be beaten, is actually picking him up and trying to help him get away. And something I love. I mean, it's an incredibly disturbing image. It never should have happened. But when you get to sit down and talk to people, you learn more. Right?

[Greg Cunningham]

The real story.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Ted, get this. So Te leaves. His nose is broken. He's being kicked and pummeled. He goes to Mass General, and he has a black doctor. And the black doctor said after this incident. Yeah, right. Like, you know, within the hour, the black doctor says to him, I can bandage you up in a pretty nondescript way, and you can. You can walk out of here, or I can bandage you up in a really conspicuous way. Yeah, what do you want? And he and Ted Landsmark, he knew image. He knew what it meant to send a message. And he knew the press would be outside the hospital.

[Greg Cunningham]

People need to see what this is.

[Faith Saley]

That's exactly what he said. When you see the photographs of the way he was bandaged, it's huge, invisible, and white tape all over his face to fix his broken nose. And he did that on purpose, because he said, this happened to me, and I'm going to use this in service of something bigger.

[Greg Cunningham]

It's. It's the 1975. It's. It's similar to Mamie Till and her courage with Emmett Till and wanting to make sure that Emmett's casket was open so the world could see what has happened to her son. And it was another spark plug for the civil rights movement was Emmett Till's murder and. And the same idea. It's like the world needs to see the cruelty that is taking place here, and maybe that'll spark more people to want to move towards justice and equality.

[Faith Saley]

When the day after this happened, they brought the four youths who had beaten Ted Landsmark to court and the city of Boston. So this is bad luck for Boston. This was 1976. So it was the bicentennial, and there was supposed to be all this stuff in Boston.

[Greg Cunningham]

Right.

[Faith Saley]

That summer. And the mayor was not happy about any of this. And they said to Ted Landsmark, if you accept the apologies of these four teenagers, what do you want? And he said to me, I accepted their apologies because essentially what he wanted to do was leverage the systemic problems in Boston. He said to the mayor, I want more people of color. There was tons of construction. Right. Getting ready for the bicentennial.

[Greg Cunningham]

Right.

[Faith Saley]

So he said to the mayor, I want more people of color in positions like overseeing construction. Yes. He also said to me, I didn't want these four teenagers dogged for the rest of their lives because they got caught up in a moment. He said to me, it wasn't personal.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And I said to him, you accepted their apologies, but did you forgive them? And he said, no. He said, you can't forgive acts of hate. No. That doesn't serve anybody.

[Greg Cunningham]

Right.

[Faith Saley]

It's really interesting.

[Greg Cunningham]

And first of all, thank you for introducing me to Ted Landsmark, because I had never heard that part of the story, and every time I saw this photo, I did always think that he's about to gouge this man with this. But Ted sounds like an absolutely amazing person, to use a word we've used a lot on the show. A man with an incredible amount of grace.

[Faith Saley]

That's right. That's right. And transcendent in that moment in service of others. Right. Because he thought, what can. I'm a civil rights activist. He actually said to me, I didn't want this to happen. Couldn't have happened to a better person. Because he knew how to use.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's right.

[Faith Saley]

That racism.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes. And not in channel his anger. His response into something that actually, as we said earlier, helped us move towards better outcomes. How do we actually use these moments to make the change as opposed to just sort of lashing out? And he could have very easily done that or asked for something that was very selfish and only for himself. But he understood his responsibility was to something much bigger than himself.

[Faith Saley]

And he said at the end, I said, what does the flag mean to you now? And he said, I wrote this down because of this one word he used. He said, I feel sorry for people who use, who misused this symbol of democratic access.

[Greg Cunningham]

Wow.

[Faith Saley]

Access is this word we use over and over.

[Greg Cunningham]

Where have we heard that before?

[Faith Saley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

Shout out to Ted Lansbury. Yeah. What a hero. What a hero.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. And it's such a privilege to be able to talk to him and learn. And he's so quiet and powerful. Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

I feel him. I feel Ted already.

[Faith Saley]

Okay. I have one more cool job here.

[Greg Cunningham]

I don't want to mess this up. Make sure I get it.

[Faith Saley]

Okay, I'll put it back in the envelope. Okay. I now have another cool story. Are you okay with me telling these stories?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes. I love this.

[Faith Saley]

So have you ever heard of Prep for Prep?

[Greg Cunningham]

No.

[Faith Saley]

It's a New York based organization that identifies kids. It's competitive to get in. I think it identifies kids from underserved communities, kids of color who can test to an interview to go to private schools in New York City with their tuition paid for 6th through 12th grade, and then continues with Access helping them get into colleges.

[Greg Cunningham]

Terrific.

[Faith Saley]

And so a friend of mine is like on an advisory board and was kind enough to invite me to their annual dinner the other night. So for the first time ever in their 30 something years, their honoree was an alumni of Prep for Prep.

[Greg Cunningham]

Wow.

[Faith Saley]

So before that it was like J.P. morgan and Chad and Michael Bloomberg. So here's this guy, his name's Kareem Cook. And the reason I'm telling you this is because like so many, when he's telling his story, when he's doing his acceptance speech, I was like, that's what we talk about on the show. Wait, I know this story. So he begins with a huge shout out to his mom, who he said, single mother, two kids, their next door neighbor gets murdered in Queens overnight, she moves her family somehow across the city, finds another apartment because she, she doesn't want whoever did the murder to come back and try to kill the witnesses. Right. This is this kid in fifth grade, Right. But the mom being Valiant, moving the kid across the city, Then Central Park 5 the Central park exonerated happens. This is all in the 80s, 1980s. And he says, and my mom sat me, my brother and my three best friends down and said as young black men, you need to, you need. If this ever happens to you, you memorize the badge number, you memorize the plate of that car. If anyone ever pulls you aside, you come to me. He said a week later, he and his friends got pulled over by the police. Weren't doing anything wrong. He listened to his mother, he said the next morning she was at the precinct talking about, you will not do this to my son and his friends. Right. So just this powerhouse behind him making sure that he never wasted any of the opportun he was given when he went to this, to this private school. And then he runs this company called NatureAid, which has been black owned since, or I guess he's the chief marketing officer. Black owned since 2012. And at some point they pivoted and directed their. It's mostly like vegan, I think it's like vegan smoothies and supplements. They decided to direct their efforts toward under underserved communities where there are a lot of cases of obesity, diabetes and heart disease.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

So for him that was black and brown communities.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

He said he goes to. The dream is to get into Costco. That's. I guess that's everybody's dream, right? If you're selling something, get the product into Costco. He, he, he has some kind of partner in Grant Hill.

[Greg Cunningham]

I know. Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

You're gonna know who that is, right? My husband had to tell me. His NBA player. Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

Fame basketball player, amazing college career at Duke.

[Faith Saley]

Yes, Right, right. Okay. Cause this guy went to Duke. Okay. His name's Kareem Cook, by the way.

[Greg Cunningham]

I think Kareem Cook might have played basketball. Was he on the basketball team?

[Faith Saley]

I wanna say probably because he said he played basketball in high school. So they get access to the CEO of Costco and the guy says, oh, well, I mean, we've been wanting to expand into diversity for a long time. This, this, this sounds great. Why haven't we done this before? We'll, we'll let you. He said to him, just let me start with eight stores. Let me, let me get into eight stores.

[Greg Cunningham]

Sure.

[Faith Saley]

And he said, well, well, why haven't you come to me before? And the CEO, they said to the CEO, you have a bar of something like two. Some a company has to have like.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

Is it, does it sound right to say like 22 million 250 million in sales to get into Costco does that sound right? It was something like that.

[Greg Cunningham]

It was some huge number, some threshold that you have to demonstrate so you can make sure you keep the supply chain appropriately. Yeah, yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And he says to him, cause we're. We don't have. You haven't given us a chance because we don't meet that threshold.

[Greg Cunningham]

Right.

[Faith Saley]

Give us a chance. We'll meet the threshold. Right?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

And so again, it was about. It was the CEO of Costco to whom, by the way, he gave a huge shout out because Costco ended up donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the sports prep for prep charity.

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, that's great.

[Faith Saley]

But it was again, this notion of access. It was being seen and being chosen and being given a chance, given the opportunity.

[Greg Cunningham]

That is the definition of access. What's the name of the product?

[Faith Saley]

It's called NatureAid. NatureAid or Naturade. I don't know. N A T U R A D E. Wait, here's the kicker, Greg. So then he says, as we're funding this, you should be using a black owned bank. You should be using. We should always be using black owned businesses as we grow this ecosystem.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And by the way, he's gone from eight Costco stores to hundreds. And so he hooks him up with Lisk. And I lean over to my husband and I'm like, we talked to Lisk.

[Greg Cunningham]

It's Maurice Jones. You interviewed Maryse. Yeah, that was season one. Yes, yes.

[Faith Saley]

And wait, Lisk. Do you remember what the acronym stands for? For anyone who's listening, it's now. I'll put you on the spot.

[Greg Cunningham]

Local institutions, support corporation.

[Faith Saley]

Ding, ding, ding. I'm just gonna say.

[Greg Cunningham]

But, but local, I think it's local institution, support corporation.

[Faith Saley]

All. All of this one person's story, you know, from childhood to, to making a business dream come true by getting his company in Costco was just check, check, check. All the things we talk about on this show.

[Greg Cunningham]

Given being given the opportunity, having access to the CEO of Costco number one. And then given the opportunity because that's all we can all ask for is to have, you know, any. And that's what this work is all about. All anyone can promise you is to provide an equality of opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. And it sounds like they have an amazing and superior product that once in the store as it performed. And so the business continues to grow and they continue to get more opportunities. So congratulations to them and shout out to them. But that is absolutely the definition of what access is all about.

[Faith Saley]

On the show over all these seasons, I feel like Access was, I mean, because U.S. bank's. It's called Access Commitment. Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's the program started in 2021.

[Faith Saley]

And some of the things I learned, though are what access means, like. Natasha Reed Rice, Excess is housing.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

Access is. It's so much more than a bank giving money to somebody.

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's. You know, I've said this so many times. I honestly, I feel like what we talk about as our purpose as an organization of powering human potential and helping individuals and families fulfill their dreams and helping communities reach their full potential and be vibrant. And that is what we do and that is our purpose. We just. Banking just happens to be the business and the vessel that we as an organization have chosen in order to deliver on that. But the reason U.S. bank exists is to do all of those things is to provide access to help individuals and families meet their dreams. And like, that's what's so cool about it. And I think that's what really I hope has continued to come through for us. And it's certainly what the Access Commitment is all about.

[Faith Saley]

I mentioned before how much I continue to learn and I was thinking about. I was thinking about moments like, do you remember when the WNBA commissioner. Kathy. Kathy was telling us her moments of learning too. For example, that story about August of 2020 when Jacob Blake was killed.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And she had four games she wanted the WNBA to play that night.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And she went into the bubble and was like, we're gonna do this. And one of the players said to her, kathy, no, I have a six year old son.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And Kathy had that moment where she was vulnerable enough on the show to talk about how she lear.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, I had that recent. You know, somebody asked me recently, I do remember that story vividly and not as dramatic, but something I was asked the other day to talk about a moment, a moment I remember most about pride in Pride month. And I said, you know, it actually just happened to me a couple of weeks ago where I use the wrong pronouns for someone and the person was graceful enough. Well, first of all, the minute I said it, I realized it. And I let the conversation because there were a few other people that were part of the conversation. I pulled the person aside afterwards and I said, hey, did I just use the wrong pronouns for you? And they said, yes. I said, well, please tell me what they are and please forgive me. And we just had this lovely conversation that was filled with grace and compassion and Empathy and all of that. And I just like those moments happen. And, you know, to the point you made about Kathy, like, sometimes we're gonna. We're not always gonna do the right thing. We're not always gonna make the right decision. We're not always gonna say the right thing. And you and I talk about that a lot. But we have to give each other grace, and that only happens when there's an element of trust that happens between people, and we have to just continue to do more in all of our efforts to build those bridges.

[Faith Saley]

I feel like over and over, you give me such good natured grace to learn stuff as a white lady. Well, thanks. What have you learned?

[Greg Cunningham]

So many things. I just. Your natural curiosity, it's made me more curious. People think because I'm the chief Diversity officer, I have all of these answers to all of this stuff, and then I know everything about it. But no, like, I'm always learning. Like I said, I use the wrong pronouns for somebody, for God's sakes. You know? So your curiosity, your interest in preparation and the way that you approach these conversations, I've learned a lot about that. It's made me better.

[Faith Saley]

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. I think about the conversation with you and Houston White, when both of y'all taught me. I can't remember who explained it, but taught me about why the barbershop is such a special. I mean, I know there are movies called Barbershop. Right. But I didn't get why. Right. But why? And I think it was also with Houston, a conversation about style and steez and what it meant, like. But you connected it with dignity and status.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And I had never thought about why the sneakers should be so clean or the hair should be so tight or what barbershops meant.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And to sort of. I just. I guess I just want to say I'm grateful for that. You know, I don't mean to sound like a, you know, white anthropologist, but, like, it's all. When you just have the space and the permission, I guess, is what I'm saying. Right. These conversations are this permission for me to be curious in a way where I don't feel like. Like I. I will be looked at with skepticism or eye rolls.

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, well, thank you for saying that. And I, you know, I've always felt that I don't have an expectation or we shouldn't have expectations on each of each other that we always understand, but we should have an expectation that you want to.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

Does that make sense?

[Faith Saley]

Yeah. And the people who are willing to help you understand. Because sometimes you can get weary.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

People can get weary of explaining this is how it feels for us and this is how it works.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, no, that's very true.

[Faith Saley]

That's generosity to be willing to explain to the people who are curious.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. I've always felt like no matter how weary that I. We've talked about this on the show. I talked about the Easy Burden, Andrew Young, Andrew Young's book, Easy Burden. Like, compared to the sacrifice that others had to make. Like, I don't want to hear that you're tired. Like, yeah, we're all tired. Yes, I get tired. But you're not going to hear me on here talking about, like, oh my God, I'm so tired. I'm so weary. Like, do you realize, like, what the people who did the work to allow me to sit here went through? Like, this is an easy burden for me.

[Faith Saley]

Like, that's what Jay Bailey said. So he runs Rice the Rice, the Russell Innovation.

[Greg Cunningham]

Russell Innovation center for Entrepreneurships. Thank you. You got it In Atlanta.

[Faith Saley]

And he talks about how Mr. Russell.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, Herman Russell. Herman J. Russell in the 60s, I think. 60s. One of the first, certainly for, for a period of time, Herman Russell construction was the largest black owned business in this country for like a really, really long time. And you know, one of the first black millionaire philanthropists. Just an icon in the black community and just a pillar in our community on the business side.

[Faith Saley]

And he endows the Russell Center, Rice. And now it's the biggest, literally, like in terms of space, the biggest space for black entrepreneurs on earth.

[Greg Cunningham]

The largest incubator for black entrepreneurship in the world.

[Faith Saley]

And he is the one who gave that beautiful quotation of folks who are planting seeds to grow trees under whose shade we will not sit.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

And I remember in that conversation, that's when you talked about Easy Burden and Andrew Young.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so proud of Jay and that work. But that, that's truly how I feel about it.

[Faith Saley]

Jay was the person who said, I'll never forget it. He said, you're talking about race. You can throw in class for free. Yes, I've thought about that so many times.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, he had some real.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah, he still owes us some boxes of chips. Do you remember that?

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, he was talking about his chips.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah, we're gonna boast chips two seasons ago. Follow up on that.

[Greg Cunningham]

I am gonna follow up with him on that.

[Faith Saley]

Do you have, do you have the stamina for one more kind of topic? Okay, so here's something I've been wanting to ask you about for a long time because when I hear people talk about this and then I recently read this article that was in the Atlantic. What is the title of it? It's worth saying the title. Where is it? Okay. It's this article by the writer Connor Friedersdorf called the DEI Industry needs to Check its Privilege subtitle the Worst of the Industry is Expensive and Runs from Useless to Counterproductive.

[Greg Cunningham]

Mm.

[Faith Saley]

It's a very nuanced article. I found it very interesting. And so what he's talking about, it's not the kind of commitment that US bank does. It doesn't sound to me like the kind of work you do. He talks about this multi billion dollar industry that popped up in that kind of never again fervor after George Floyd was murdered. And he suggests that the billions of dollars that corporate America has spent to train. I'm using air quotes its employees in whatever diversity training means or sensitivity training. He says. I think he don't just think it's right here. He uses the word obscene to say it is obscene when that money would probably be better spent helping poor people.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And so as the chief diversity officer of U.S. bank.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. I love this.

[Faith Saley]

What are these training programs? Like, what do you think of them? What are they doing wrong? Because I will tell you that as a parent at one of my children's schools, in 2020, 2021 and 2022, they had. They created a program that is mandatory anti racist parental training.

[Greg Cunningham]

Mandatory anti racist parent training.

[Faith Saley]

Yep. And for the first two years of it, it was entirely on Zoom. And they said that we had to have our cameras on. So you just see hundreds of people coming in on zoom. And this is New York City. So I'm scrolling through and I'm like, there's a famous. Like how many Emmys are in the back of that famous person? Like, I'm sorry, but I am gonn scroll through and be like, who's on this with me? Just human.

[Greg Cunningham]

Of course. Of course. And that sounds really.

[Faith Saley]

So this is the thing. Mandatory compliance. What are the talk to me about your thought about these kind of programs? Because it's not what you're doing.

[Greg Cunningham]

I do feel that first of all, I've never even as the chief diversity. Diversity officer, like nobody wants to go to a diversity training. Like I'm talking.

[Faith Saley]

There were slideshows about microaggressions.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. Like nobody wants to do that. Like it's. I think the way that we've approached it certainly with our employees is to invite people into conversations to come learn with me is to come learn with us. Like, that's a very different invitation than, than saying you've got to attend diversity training. Now that's not to suggest we don't have as part of our orientation, as part of our core curriculum, we do have mandatory diversity trainings. Unconscious bias, cultural identity, things that we think are like basic knowledge, skill sets that any leader coming into the bank should come because it's one of our core values, we draw strength from diversity. Like what I love about that is the phrase itself would suggest, like this is one of our signature strengths as an organization. And so we need to make sure that everybody understands that and has a sense of how important this is to us as an organization. So you're going to take these two mandatory courses. Beyond that though, I think the conversations of diversity have to be tied to what do we expect of leaders in this organization. And what we expect from leaders of this organization is that they will have, they will lead high performing diverse teams that help meet the needs of our customers in the communities where we live and live, work and play. And therefore we have expectations around inclusion that are tied to performance reviews. And so just like financial performance, you actually have to have people leader goals that are tied to creating an inclusive environment. Because it's not just what you do, it's how you go about performing your job that separates the good leaders from the bad leaders, that separates leaders who underperform from leaders that perform. And we know that leaders that outperform everybody else have an inclusive mindset. They have inclusive teams, they have women in leadership, they have people of color in leadership. Those are the leaders who perform the best. But if you can't measure that, if you can't set that as an expectation, that actually is in the system where people actually have to put their people leader goals in, they actually have goals, have to have goals around inclusion in the organization. So I think it's more about how do you make it part of an expectation around the business outcomes we're trying to achieve versus making it some sort of compliance mandatory. Take this anti racist course because like, who are we to dictate what you should think about now there's nobody that's going to argue racism is bad. Like that's not what I think the debate is about. But it's what do you truly believe as an organization that leadership looks like and how you want your organizational culture to be. An organizational culture where everybody can be at their best requires that there be some sort of expectation for leaders. And I think that's more than training. I think there's a level of accountability that has to come with that, that's connected to how you evaluate how you reward leadership and performance in your organization.

[Faith Saley]

And it's also, at least from what I've learned about the work you do and y'all do, the bank as a whole, it's not just within the organization. It's about demonstrating this is what we value. And here's where we. Yeah, here's where we commit. Commit with access, with funds, with mentorship.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yes.

[Faith Saley]

It's outside. Like, it's truly. It's putting the money. It's putting your money where your mouth is.

[Greg Cunningham]

It is. And it. And it's serving all of your stakeholders. It's not only, you know, how you want your employees, your employee and your workforce to look, but it's also how you want to serve a diverse marketplace. It's these, The. The markets and the customers that we serve demand it. Like, they demand that there be representation. They demand that the products and services that you provide meet their needs and meet their needs from their lived experience and that you see them and you understand them. And that requires for you to have a diverse workforce. That's why you want diversity, is because they're just serving a diverse market. So there's no separation between what this work of DEI is or should be and how it's connected to the actual business goals. Like, that's where I think the industry as a whole has fallen short, is it became strictly this exercise in human capital management. And we've lost sight of the fact that this is about how we serve customers, how we serve communities, and most importantly, how we serve employees in that.

[Faith Saley]

Equation, do people ever dare to, when they find out your title or what you do, did they dare to. To challenge and say, oh, that diversity stuff?

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, every day.

[Faith Saley]

Really?

[Greg Cunningham]

Oh, every day. Like, I've. I've. I've gotten notes, you know, mostly anonymously and in some ways, but, you know, I've gotten notes from people, you know, you're ruining the company. Like, this is not the, you know, the company that I joined 30 years ago and, you know. Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

Wow.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

Do you respond?

[Greg Cunningham]

Not to stuff like that? Like that. Like, I don't, you know, I don't live my. Live my life in the comment section.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

You know, like, I don't read. I don't do the comments. Like, I do. I just don't. But I have. I'll tell you what, where I've. Where I have found the most rewarding part of my work is actually having those conversations with people who do disagree with me. Me, like who just who. Who come into it with a lot of skepticism about who this DEI work is for. And, you know, is it really for me, I don't see myself in the.

[Faith Saley]

Work and I. I don't have unconscious bias.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's a good line. Yeah, that one. I don't see color.

[Faith Saley]

Right.

[Greg Cunningham]

Like, that one. Like, you know, having. I've had so many conversations with some of those people, and I've always found those conversations to be incredibly rewarding. And in the process, I think we both have learned a lot. And people have said to me afterwards, I see this completely differently after having talked to you, I really feel so much better. And the fact that you took the time to call me after I sent you that email, I see it differently. And I'm going to be more open about this and I'm going to think differently about it. And that's where I get the most reward, is in those conversations. And honestly, I learned something in that process too.

[Faith Saley]

That's grace as well.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah, you have to do this job.

[Faith Saley]

I have a white kid, and there's a program at his school that invites any children who identify as people of color. So that includes anyone who's non white to join. And it started when he was like seven and he came to me and he said, mom, all these boys get to leave and go have pizza and play games in the middle of the day. And they're part of, I think the group's called jama. And he said, I don't wanna. I'm not complaining. It's just nobody explained it to us. And in fact, one of the kids he saw leave the room who identifies as a person of color, my son thought was white. And it turns out I think the kid's grandfather is Egyptian. Okay, wow, fine. Like, anybody can go. And we even said to our son, like, some people, some. Maybe you're Jewish, right? My husband's Jewish. Like, whatever, if you want to go. But it wasn't explained to kids. And that would be. And I went to the DEI officer and I was like, I'm not complaining. Like, my kids have black cousins. They get that the world can treat people differently. They get. They don't have the lived experience of someone else. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a conversation with all the school to say, this is the invitation to anyone who wants to take it? And this is why sometimes certain students who identify a certain way go into a different space? And I said, I don't need to Script, you, you know it better than I. Right, but shouldn't it start with a conversation that includes everybody 100%? Because I didn't want to tell my, at that point, white 7 year old, like, well, you can't, like it's racist to question why they're going out to have. He's a kid, he just sees his friends, they don't have to do math. They get to have pizza and play games because the grandfather's Egyptian. Right, but the point is what you just said, responding to the emails, having just an open conversation that comes from.

[Greg Cunningham]

Curiosity and actually it's cool. And I find it really refreshing when people disagree or question or skeptical about what this is because it does open the door for dialogue and that's how we'll get to progress. I would much rather have that. I don't know if I ever told you the story when I first took this job. Really quick story. When I first took this job, I, I was doing this little road show and you know, talking to new. I had my bright new shiny DEI strategy, I had my little PowerPoint decks and I would go around and talk to like various teams across the organization. I had this one team ask me to come and speak. And it was a smaller group, it was a smaller team. It's like, you know, less than 20 people. And I remember I'm doing the DEI presentation and there's this one, you know, middle aged white man in the back of the room, you know, with his arms crossed. And you could just tell the whole time, like he was just not feeling.

[Faith Saley]

It, not having it.

[Greg Cunningham]

No, he's not feeling it. Right. And like I could sense it the whole time. And finally when I was done, you know, he mustered the courage to sort of raise his hand and say, you know, hey, I just have a question, like, when will we have a white male employee resource group? And I remember in that moment, like the whole room just sort of gasped, like, I can't believe, you know, whatever.

[Faith Saley]

I can't remember the gentleman's name now. I'm dying to know what you said.

[Greg Cunningham]

Like, did he really just do that? And I said, well, you know, I just shared with you a whole bunch of data about the makeup of the organization and where I believe we have disparities in representation and from what I can see in the data. But you tell me if you see something differently. We don't have a problem with representation of white males at any level of this organization. And so I'd love to know, like, what you feel is different about your experience that might need me to consider, why would we need to do that when there's no shortage of representation in the organization? And quite honestly, you know, my actions going forward will be driven by letting the data help inform where we make the changes. And until I see data that suggests that there's something about a lack of white representation, I don't feel like we would need to do that. And he just kind of sat back, and from that point forward, like, I would see him every now and then in the hallway or just walking somewhere, and he would always just acknowledge me. And he would purposefully. I could tell he felt seen and heard in the moment. Whether he liked the response or not, he felt safe enough. Which was the other part of my response. I said, first of all, I just want to applaud you because I think it's an important question. And the fact that you felt safe enough to ask that question. What I want you to understand is the safety that you felt in answering that question is what most people of color and women don't feel like. That's the privilege. Like, that wants you to sit with that for a minute. And from that point on, he kind of, like, he just would go out of his way, you know, to sort of come up to me and say, yeah, like, I. I learned something in that moment. And thanks for giving me, you know, the respect in the way that you answered the question, too. So that was just sort of a cool moment for me. Like, I always enjoy those challenges because there are opportunities for me to educate, but also in the process, learn something about myself as well.

[Faith Saley]

You just used the word privilege. And one of the other things I've learned on this show, people define privilege lots of different ways, but I think a theme that comes up is privilege is when you can fail and have a second chance.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Faith Saley]

And so many people we have talked to have said a lot of times it's, I'm the black person or I'm the black woman. I can't fail. The responsibility and the burden of that. Right. That was one of the things we talked to Jay Bailey about. Cause he talks about the power to fly and the power to fail and vulnerability.

[Greg Cunningham]

Yeah. Who else did that come out with? That came out a lot, I think, with. I can't remember the season of where it was, but we talked about that also as part of the burden. Like, if you're the only one, you feel uniquely responsible that you must succeed. And not only must you succeed, but you must do it for everybody. For everybody. Because if you fail, there won't Be another one who gets that opportunity.

[Faith Saley]

Yeah.

[Greg Cunningham]

Cause they'll go see, I told you they weren't qualified. I told you that she wasn't ready for the job.

[Faith Saley]

They got that job because they only.

[Greg Cunningham]

Got the job because. So we can't hire another person in that role. And so it's a heavy burden to carry, but it's one that you just sort of accept comes with it.

[Faith Saley]

What are you excited about for the season?

[Greg Cunningham]

I'm excited about the translator documentary that's me snapping. I'm excited about this story of translators. I'm excited about the work we're going to do in the Hispanic community this year. I'm excited to talk to Jorge from the oh, Smithsonian, the Smithsonian Museum of the Latin American. I'm excited about the Latino Leadership Institute and talking with Joelle Claudia Edelman from.

[Faith Saley]

We Are All Human.

[Greg Cunningham]

Claudia is going to be really fun. Claudia is the queen of data. So she's going to spend. Spent a lot of time just talking about and telling the story through data. So she's just an incredible, incredible leader.

[Faith Saley]

We have Eric Toda.

[Greg Cunningham]

Eric Toda from Meta will be incredibly exciting to talk about the world of technology and how being an executive in that space and being an executive of color and how do you show up in that world and some of the stereotypes that go along with that. So Eric will be great to talk to, but we've got a great lineup this year. We've got a great mix of folks, some still to be announced, but this notion of leaning into some of these other cultures who make up this beautiful, as I talk about a lot, this beautiful quilt that I think we're weaving together not only in our work, but this beautiful quilt that is our country. And I think through this show and through this podcast, I think we are weaving this beautiful tapestry, this story that we're telling. If you listen, listen to all of the seasons and all of the work, you see this beautiful tapestry coming together.

[Faith Saley]

It's amazing that we never stop learning. I get excited for every single person we're going to talk to.

[Greg Cunningham]

Me, too. Me too.

[Faith Saley]

And as this show has evolved, our friendship is like such a gift to me.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's been such a bonus to me getting to know you and your spirit and you're just pure joy and you just make this so much fun for me and I hope for, you know, for everybody, for who listens and for our organization. You've just been such a amazing friend, an amazing partner. But, gosh, I feel like, you know, I feel like we've known each other for forever.

[Faith Saley]

I know.

[Greg Cunningham]

And. But it's been an honor. It has been an honor and a joy just to do this with you every single time. So thank you.

[Faith Saley]

Thank you, Greg. That's how I feel. It's a gift. And thank you for your grace. And my husband told me before I came here today, make sure you give Greg a hug from me, so you get hugs from.

[Greg Cunningham]

From all of us, the whole fam. Right back at you guys. Thank you. Foreign and we're back, folks. It looks like Jim from sales just got in from his client lunch and he's got receipts. His next meeting is in two minutes.

[Faith Saley]

The team is asking, can he get through his expenses in that time?

[Greg Cunningham]

He's going for it. Is that his phone? He's snapping a pick. He's texting round.

[Faith Saley]

Jim is fast, but this is unheard of.

[Greg Cunningham]

That's it. He's done it. It's unbelievable.

[Faith Saley]

On ramp, expenses are faster than ever. Just submit them with a text. Switch your business to ramp.com.