Podcast Summary: The 404 Media Podcast

Episode: "A Massive Archiving Effort at National Parks"

Guests: Jenny McBurney & Lynda Kellam

Date: November 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The 404 Media Podcast focuses on the grassroots archiving movement "Save Our Signs," a massive crowdsourced effort to preserve the educational and historical signage in U.S. national parks. The project emerged as a rapid response to a 2025 executive order—titled "Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History"—that mandated the removal of park signs or monument placards that cast America in a negative light. Host Sam speaks with Save Our Signs organizers Jenny McBurney (University of Minnesota Libraries) and Lynda Kellam (University of Pennsylvania Libraries, Data Rescue Project) about how this initiative arose, its challenges, its collaborative process, and why preserving historical truth in public spaces matters.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Backgrounds & Motivation

• Origins in Library Science
  Both Jenny and Lynda share similar career paths, originating in political science and moving into library science and data preservation, driven by a shared passion for public information access and history.

  • [03:05] Lynda: "I got into data librarianship because I was a political science major...decided I didn’t really like political science much anymore. So I started looking around for career paths, and data librarianship seemed like a good use of my skills."

• How the Project Started
  The Trump administration's executive order in March 2025 was a catalyst. It restricted park signage to only mention "beauty and grandeur," banning any reference to negative or complex aspects of American history.

  • [05:04] Sam: "Good start. Amazing title. What a banger...it demanded that...monument placards and signs...would never attempt to address anything negative about American history..."

Initial Reactions to the Executive Order

• Dismay and Frustration
  Both guests describe their initial reactions as disbelief and frustration, highlighting a lack of understanding by policymakers about the purpose of national parks.

  • [07:45] Lynda: "...this is, you know, just sheer frustration...they don’t understand what is at a national park, that this isn’t—national parks aren’t just natural areas...they engage with our history of America."

• Realization of Urgency
  The reality set in with a follow-up secretarial order in May specifying removal logistics (e.g., using QR codes to report “disparaging” signs), making it clear this executive order would be actively enforced.

  • [09:17] Jenny: "I remember reading the title of it and being like, whatever, I can’t deal with this...did not pay attention until the secretarial order came out in May...that’s when I started paying attention, was like, oh, this is actually going to do something bad."

Building the Save Our Signs Project

• Parallel Efforts and Collaboration
  Independently, Jenny and Lynda began coordinating data rescue plans, only to later connect and combine efforts after a mutual contact.

  • [13:05] Lynda: "That’s when we put out a call for assistance, because we were just so frustrated trying to figure out what the mechanism would be...and that’s when Jenny saw that and was like, oh, we’re already doing this."

• Choice of Tools: Qualtrics Survey
  For privacy protection and ease of participation, they used an anonymous Qualtrics survey for photo submission, allowing public crowdsourcing from anyone visiting parks.

  • [14:34] Jenny: "...anonymity was going to be a really important aspect of people wanting to participate in this project...folks can upload materials photos without having to log in with an email account..."

• Crowdsourcing as Empowerment and Necessity
  The project intentionally involved the public, both because of logistical limitations (there are too many parks for just a few archivists) and as a way for the American public to directly assert the importance of shared history.

  • [21:11] Lynda: "We didn’t have that reach...it was so close to July 4th that we wanted to capitalize on that, that people would be going out to parks...this was something that anybody could do."
  • [22:19] Jenny: "...this is what the administration was asking for—the public to weigh in. Okay, well, then we’re going to weigh in..."

Execution and Challenges

• Submission Process
  Participants could submit sign photos, titles, and context without identifying themselves. The submission period was strategically launched around July 4th for maximum engagement.

  • [19:42] Jenny: "They upload the photo. They say, yes, I consent...They can also enter the title of the sign...or any additional information about it..."

• Archival Rush and Overwhelm
  Following national coverage, submissions skyrocketed, catching the organizers somewhat by surprise.

  • [36:23] Jenny: "...it only took a few weeks before suddenly the submissions were just spiking off the charts...I thought I was going to be able to see the photos come in and look at each one as they came in. And that worked for like a week, and then it was too much..."

• Data Organization & Publication
  A robust curatorial process followed, sorting through 10,400 photo submissions to ensure images fit the project’s scope (i.e., were actual signs, not scenic photos). The new public-facing website, saveoursigns.org, showcases the collection and invites ongoing participation.

  • [37:21] Jenny: "We kind of went with the original deadline of September 17th...we had a giant spreadsheet...and then we had to go through and look at every single one to make sure that it was in scope..."

Archival Philosophy and Broader Implications

• Beyond Just Signs: Preserving Truth and Building Community
  The initiative highlights how easily public historical knowledge can be erased. The project’s dual goals were to preserve information and empower a wider community to value and protect public history.

  • [27:15] Jenny: "...there’s two goals here. There’s the preservation and there’s the getting people involved, getting people to think about history, talk to each other— all of that."
  • [24:33] Lynda: "If you look at Philadelphia’s signs, a lot of those were years and decades in the making...the efforts that’s gone in to recognize the history of slavery or the history of civil rights in the country...has been a very important part of this..."

• Ambiguity and Ongoing Threat
  The order’s vague language (“disparaging”) means any sign—even those recounting military losses or uncomfortable facts—could be subject to removal. Vigilance is required, as the campaign for historical erasure continues.

  • [33:59] Lynda: "The way the orders are written are so vague that even...a part of military history could be interpreted as disparaging..."

• Hope Through Action
  Despite difficult circumstances, both organizers report inspiration in the outpouring of grassroots participation and its impact on national discourse.

  • [41:22] Jenny: "I get a lot of hope and joy out of all of the comments that we get from people...I am so happy that I’ve been able to submit photos and be a part of this work..."

  • [42:37] Lynda: "It’s really recognizing building awareness of the importance of public data and why it matters and how much it infuses our life..."

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Executive Order
  "It demanded that public officials make sure that things like monument placards and signs...only ever acknowledge how beautiful and pretty America looks...the wording in the EO was beauty and grandeur."
  — Sam [05:04]

• On Collaboration
  "My idea...was that I wanted to turn the tactic on the administration. So if they were going to use QR codes to have people report these pictures, I wanted to have people report what they loved about the pictures."
  — Lynda [12:20]

• On Public Involvement
  "We’re going to weigh in and we’re going to show what we think is important. We, the people of America, are going to say that we think this is important and contribute to this collection of photos."
  — Jenny [22:19]

• On the Importance of Park Signs
  "These new signs...a lot of those were years and decades in the making. And acknowledgment of the history of slavery...is a huge part of the conversation that's gone on..."
  — Lynda [24:33]

• Reflecting on Scale and Impact
  "It only took a few weeks before suddenly the submissions were just spiking off the charts...I thought I was going to be able to see the photos come in and look at each one...and that worked for like a week, and then it was too much..."
  — Jenny [36:23]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introductions and Project Setup — [00:00–05:04]
• Description and Impact of Executive Orders — [05:04–10:41]
• First Steps and Emotional Response — [07:45–13:05]
• Tool Selection and Crowdsourcing — [13:05–21:11]
• Participation, Submission Process, and Anonymity — [19:08–22:44]
• Early Success, Media Help, and Data Overload — [36:12–39:54]
• Website Launch & Ongoing Need — [40:11–41:22]
• Broader Significance and Closing Reflections — [41:22–43:38]

How to Participate or Explore

• View or Contribute to the Archive:
  saveoursigns.org —
  • View the collection
  • Add your photos
  • See where documentation is still needed

Tone & Language

The tone throughout the episode is conversational, passionate, and occasionally irreverent (especially when describing government action). Both hosts and guests share a sense of urgency mixed with optimism and a belief in public engagement as a tool for historical preservation.

Summary

"A Massive Archiving Effort at National Parks" tells the story of how librarians and volunteers created a lifeline for American historical signage under threat. Through swift organization, smart tool choices, and a crowdsourced model, Save Our Signs collected over 10,000 park sign photos, ensuring future generations have access to an uncensored historical record. The episode underlines the fragility of public knowledge, the power of grassroots response, and the hope that emerges when ordinary people become custodians of national memory.