The 404 Media Podcast
Episode: Landing Big Scoops as an Indie Journalist (with Marisa Kabas)
Date: December 22, 2025
Overview
In this episode, host Jason Kebler from 404 Media sits down with Marisa Kabas, independent journalist and founder of “The Handbasket," to dig into the world of indie journalism. They discuss what it takes to land big scoops outside legacy outlets, navigating instability in the media industry, lessons from journalism school, and the unique challenges and rewards of working independently. Kabas shares insights on publishing impactful stories, developing sources in the federal government, and fighting for recognition in an industry that often overlooks independent voices.
Main Themes and Purpose
- How indie journalists outmaneuver big outlets on breaking news
- The evolution from traditional journalism to nimble, digital-first models
- Building trust with sources and readers outside corporate media
- Facing challenges like legal threats, stolen scoops, and burnout
- Why moral clarity and perspective matter in today’s reporting landscape
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Origins and Ethos of “The Handbasket”
(01:33)
- Marisa started The Handbasket in 2022 as a place for her own political and media reporting—covering “our country’s crumbling institutions.”
- “I started the Handbasket in 2022 just to make sure I always had a place where I could publish my stuff. And it’s turned into a full-time job and a fairly successful one, which is crazy and cool.” — Marisa Kabas (01:33)
2. The Disconnect of Journalism School with Today’s Realities
(04:11)
- Both Jason and Marisa recall journalism school as focused on legacy skills (newspaper layout, broadcast internships) over digital reporting.
- “I just felt like I was pushed off a cliff, basically, when I... graduated looking for jobs and at websites and trying to figure out what that looked like.” — Marisa Kabas (04:11)
- Their cohort had to “blaze the trail” as instructors “were steeped in the old way of doing things.”
3. Learning on the Job – From Jack of All Trades to Indie Publisher
(07:45)
- Marisa describes being “thrown into the fire” and learning everything gradually—business strategy, legal vetting, headline writing, and more.
- “It’s just been a game of trusting my instincts... there wasn’t actually any blueprint for how to handle [big scoops]... I kind of just had to figure it out, and that’s terrifying.” — Marisa Kabas (07:45)
4. Handling High-Stakes Scoops in a Fast-Moving World
(09:13)
- Discussion of a notable OMB memo scoop (government-wide grants/loans freeze; posted first on social) and strategic choices: speed vs. confidence.
- “I’m not a breaking news reporter, so my forte is not writing things up really quickly...” — Marisa Kabas (10:01)
- Kabas posted on BlueSky first because it felt less permanent and allowed an “out” if the story proved false.
5. The Agony and Adrenaline of the “Publish” Button
(13:03)
- The gravity and anxiety before publishing a major scoop are discussed—from legal fears to typo paranoia.
- “That moment of hovering over the publish button is so real... There’s always that little bit of nagging in the back of my head...” — Marisa Kabas (13:03)
- On building confidence: “Why does anyone else know better than you do? That was sort of the thing that I had to get over at first. It was, why me? And now it’s like, why not me?” — Marisa Kabas (13:03)
6. Why Sources Prefer Indie Journalists
(15:38)
- Many government sources chose to speak to Marisa because she was approachable and “just this girl, she’s a reporter and she’s going to listen...” rather than a daunting institution (16:02).
- Sources were often not used to talking to media—“just regular people trying to do their jobs... not able to do them because of this insane government.” — Marisa Kabas (15:38)
7. The Value of Perspective and Moral Clarity
(18:56)
- Indie journalists can report with moral clarity and voice, unlike legacy outlets that often “minimize” potential harm in editing.
- “If you tell someone a really emotional story and they kind of dispassionately relay it, I imagine that feels like it falls flat a little bit... we’re dealing with highly emotional subjects.” — Marisa Kabas (18:56)
8. Legal Threats and The Indie Advantage
(20:36)
- While indie journalists lack the deep legal benches of legacy outlets, they’re also less of a target.
- “I’m having a hard time imagining Trump at a rally being like 404 Media Fake News or the hand basket fake news. It just doesn’t...make sense.” — Jason Kebler (21:36)
- Indie outlets are less attractive targets for lawsuits; “Such a Trumpian view of the world...he just cares about the brand names and embarrassing them. And we’re such small fish in comparison.” — Marisa Kabas (22:01)
9. Scoops as Currency in the Indie Space
(24:15)
- Marisa recognized early on that “scoops were currency” to build an audience—a shift from the “takes” model that dominates many Substacks and personal blogs.
- Landing scoops on stories like the George Santos beat helped The Handbasket get national recognition.
10. How Do You Get a Scoop? Sometimes, Just Pick Up the Phone
(27:36)
- Kabas recounts breaking a major story about police raiding a local newspaper in Kansas simply by “calling the newspaper.”
- “Some of the scoops I’ve gotten are really complicated...but sometimes it’s literally just as simple as giving someone a call.” — Marisa Kabas (28:50)
11. Source Burnout and Covering a Hollowed Out Government
(31:24)
- Government sources are “tired” and worn down after repeated crises. Many have left, burned out, or been laid off; new sources are harder to find.
- “How do you cover a government that has dwindled in size and that a lot of the people who remain are loyalists or people who are not trying to rock the boat?” — Marisa Kabas (33:35)
12. Standing Up When the Big Outlets Steal Your Scoop
(36:50)
- Marisa has called out legacy outlets (Washington Post, NYT) for taking her stories without attribution, and has occasionally gotten corrections as a result.
- “I was just mad, which is not the best way to act, necessarily. I have these moments where I get really mad and be really public about it...And honestly, I’ve gotten so much support from it. People love seeing you stand up for yourself.” — Marisa Kabas (36:50)
- Systemic problem: staffers at big institutions couldn’t call out scoop theft due to internal constraints; as an indie journalist, Marisa can—and does.
13. Social Media, Personality, and Audience Building
(41:20)
- Kabas embraces using Bluesky for a blend of work and personal sharing: “I’m talking about very serious things...Then that same day, I’m talking about...the Sound of Music...But it’s not weird to people because I’ve set that expectation...”
- Jason: “I like it when people have a personality online.”
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
- “I just felt like I was pushed off a cliff, basically, when I... graduated looking for jobs and at websites and trying to figure out what that looked like.” — Marisa Kabas (04:11)
- “It’s just been a game of trusting my instincts...there wasn’t actually any blueprint for how to handle it.” — Marisa Kabas (07:45)
- “That moment of hovering over the publish button is so real.” — Marisa Kabas (13:03)
- “Sources were like, why would they talk to you? ...Because a lot of the people speaking to me were not used to speaking to media. ...I think it was...wanting to speak to another person and not to a corporate entity.” — Marisa Kabas (15:38)
- “I realized very early on that scoops were currency in this space if you wanted to grow.” — Marisa Kabas (24:15)
- “Some of the scoops I’ve gotten are...complicated...but sometimes it’s literally just as simple as giving someone a call.” — Marisa Kabas (28:50)
- “How do you cover a government that has dwindled in size...a lot of the people who remain are loyalists or people who are not trying to rock the boat?” — Marisa Kabas (33:35)
- “People love seeing you stand up for yourself. ...I’ve never regretted standing up for myself.” — Marisa Kabas (36:50)
- “You get to make the rules on your own, for better or worse.” — Marisa Kabas (39:02)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 01:33 — Marisa explains The Handbasket’s focus and origins
- 04:11 — Reflections on journalism school’s outdated curriculum
- 07:45 — Indie journalism as trial by fire
- 09:13–11:22 — Handling and publishing a huge government scoop
- 13:03 — The anxiety and thrill of hitting “publish”
- 15:38 — Why sources trust indie and non-institutional reporters
- 18:56 — The importance of having a point of view and moral clarity in scoops
- 20:36 — Legal risks, advantages, and indie “protection”
- 24:15 — Scoops as fuel for indie growth
- 27:36 — Getting big stories by simply being curious and proactive
- 31:24–34:43 — Burnout and source attrition inside government
- 36:50–41:20 — Calling out scoop theft and building a social media presence
Memorable Moments
1. The Reality of Indie Success
“It’s crazy and cool...I have managed to do something that’s a little bit, I don’t know, more substantial than that [just doing takes].” — Marisa Kabas (25:19)
2. Scoops are Both Simple and Complex
“Sometimes it’s literally just as simple as giving someone a call.” — Marisa Kabas (28:50)
3. Standing Up for Credit
“I was just mad, which is not the best way to act, necessarily. ...But honestly, I’ve gotten so much support from it. People love seeing you stand up for yourself.” — Marisa Kabas (36:50)
4. Frustrations with the System
“Everyone was so constrained by the people that they work for. But when you work for yourself, you get to make the rules on your own, for better or worse.” — Marisa Kabas (39:02)
5. Bringing the Personal to Professional
“I’m talking about very serious things...Then that same day, I’m talking about...the Sound of Music...and people seem to be into that.” — Marisa Kabas (41:20)
Tone and Language
Throughout, the conversation is candid, friendly, and full of professional camaraderie. Both speakers share war stories and honest reflection about the joys and struggles of indie media—all in a tone that is accessible, sometimes irreverent, and supportive of risk-taking and learning by doing.
Conclusion
The episode serves as both a window into how impactful journalism is done outside the mainstream and a practical guide to the realities—both challenging and rewarding—of indie journalism. From trusting one’s instincts, handling the anxiety of big reveals, and fighting for proper credit, to staying personally engaged and building trust with overlooked sources, Marisa Kabas and Jason Kebler lay out why independent media is crucial, and how it’s not just surviving, but thriving.